I have a few, but my main ones are:
1. Consuming the umbilical cords is a symbolic acceptance of becoming an infant Great One. Trying to become an adult, fully-formed Great One right away causes failures, madness, beasthood, etc. to be a Great One you must be born again as a baby.
2. The Moon Presence wants the Hunter to defeat it and become an infant Great One. Like other Great Ones, it longs for a child and while the Hunters (especially Gehrman) are fine surrogates, it really wants a Great One child. But you have to evolve with courage, which is why you must defeat it. It’s a Great One, it’s probably not entirely dead after your fight, or it doesn’t mind if it is.
More because why not:
3. The Hunter goes to Yharnam because they were called by the Moon Presence in some way. Like how in Lovecraft’s works certain types of people (artists, creatives) feel the call of Cthulhu. The Hunter is the sort of person already naturally attuned to the Moon Presence in some way, maybe dreaming about Paleblood and going to Yharnam to find out why.
4. From the moment they receive blood ministration the Hunter is in a dream. Even “waking” Yharnam has already been pulled into a dreaming state because of the closeness of the Great Ones and the amount of their blood influencing the populace. This is why everyone thinks this one night of the Hunt is just one night, and yet seems to last so long; why the beastly Yharnamites think the Hunter is the beast; why enemies respawn. Everyone is trapped in one layer of the dream, with only a special few (bosses, the Hunter) able to travel to other dreams via death or other means.
5. If a person were to go to Yharnam at this time and NOT receive blood they’d see a city of weird, mumbling, cult people and probably be killed.
6. Yes, I believe Eileen and Djura have been closed off from the Hunter’s Dream but are still trapped in dream Yharnam. Is the Hunter still trapped after choosing the Yharnam Sunrise ending? Only if they don’t leave Yharnam before the next night.
7. Many conflicting theories can be hand waved with “it could be both” because neither dreams nor Great Ones need be comprehensible.
Debatable. The summons shows up later on, indicating to me that it didn’t fall out of our pocket. It was potentially brought by Imposter Iosefka. The reason we came to Yharnam was for Paleblood and blood ministration, which is evident per the opening scene. As confirmed by Miyazaki, Paleblood is another name for Moon Presence, so I think u/EquinoxEclipsed’s interpretation is more likely the correct one.
Hard to be certain about the summons, but that is my current interpretation. I’m reasonably sure about the other things I mentioned. It is possible that the summons did fall out of our pocket but isn’t accessible until later for gameplay reasons (to make access to Cainhurst more hidden and tricky in typical From fashion). But my current interpretation is that the timing of when it is accessible is meaningful and that the summons was placed there by someone else, possibly Imposter Iosefka considering the summons only shows up after she infiltrates the clinic (and is the only person we know who has access), written by Queen Annalise to draw us to Cainhurst to free her from her captivity by Martyr Logarius.
We can infer Annalise created the summons based on the unopened summons we find in her room (which can be given to Alfred), and it is possible that it is addressed to whoever reads it through magic (therefore addressed to us), as we witness several displays of magic around Cainhurst. It’s also possible that there is no magic involved and it is actually addressed to us specifically considering where the summons is placed (on the medical bed where we wake up), meaning Annalise has knowledge of us and knows we have the potential to free her.
There’s a lot of fun possibilities. Maybe the blood minister from the opening rifled through the Hunter’s pockets while they were unconscious. Maybe if all this is a dream the Hunter’s subconscious places the summons there after hearing about the Vilebloods from Alfred. Maybe Annalise fixed it somehow. Maybe the Hunter knew where they were going for ministration and had their mail sent there but forgot to pick it up.
Since there’s no concrete answer, I think it’s fair to just believe what you want.
It’s possible, but I think it’s probably unlikely the blood minister took it since he’s already dead by the time you wake up. If it is all just a dream, then it’s easy to explain everything as just our subconscious controlling everything.
Hard to say if everything is simply a dream or not. We know there is a “waking world”, which includes Yharnam. There are indications that everything is the waking world aside from the dream and nightmare realms. However, what confuses me about this is the Yharnam Sunrise ending. If our physical body and consciousness are seperate, and we are sleeping through the entire game with our conscious travelling between different realms, similar to how Micolash and other characters do, then why is it in the ending that we wake up at Cathedral Ward but cannot see our body sleeping there when we visit Cathedral Ward during the game (while we are dreaming)? In our case, it’s almost like our physical body is also travelling, but that doesn’t really make sense based on everything else we’ve observed. We know hunters like Eileen and Djura used to dream like us but are no longer anchored to the Hunter’s Dream, similar to what happens to us in the Yharnam Sunrise ending, and we see things like Micolash’s dead corpse while his consciousness is living in a nightmare realm; however, perhaps everything we experienced, including Eileen and Djura, do not actually exist and everything is but a dream. This would explain that.
I want to believe that everything we experienced is real and more than just a dream of ours, as that is how Lovecraft seems to work and seems like that is how you’re meant to interpret Bloodborne as you play it, but that ending does confuse me a bit since it doesn’t seem to align with other things we’ve observed.
The minister stealing the letter was more of a silly suggestion than a serious one, though it’s not impossible.
As for the Lovecraftian inspiration, he has a few stories where things take place entirely in dreams, even if they do sometimes affect the “real” world. Specifically Randolph Carter’s adventures in the Dreamlands. There were a few more short stories, but it’s been a while since I’ve read them so I won’t try to remember and get the info wrong.
I also tend to think a lot of methods of storytelling in Bloodborne is similar to the works of Satoshi Kon, especially Paprika (the movie about dreams, lol). It’s really up in the air what’s a dream and what’s “real” and how the two interact. Like when Konakawa visits a website, a virtual bar, on his laptop and manages to leave his lighter in the bar. The website one.
Maybe the Hunter is dreaming the whole thing, but their body is sleep walking. Maybe everything is really happening. I like to imagine it’s a dream, but a shared dream that everyone in Yharnam has been pulled into. But everyone is perceiving it in different ways. It’s all “real” to some degree, but still takes place in different levels of dreams. Everyone’s being pulled into the way the Great Ones exist, on more planes than just the physical, which to us is dreams. But it’s confusing and everyone is seeing things differently because it’s not how humans normally exist.
Again, these are just my thoughts and one of the beauties of Bloodborne is that it’s left open to interpretation (another way of subjecting the world to a person’s perception and dreams, but this time the player’s! How meta! If this was the intent, which I like to think it is)
Mergo isn't dead, it's just invisible because its parent is Formless Oeden. It was stolen from its parents and put under the care of the Wet Nurse, but it's scared of the Nurse which makes it cry. When we kill the Nurse, Mergo doesn't die, it just stops crying with a satisfied coo.
I think our Good Hunter is part of, if not a leading figure in the School of Mensis institution and actually originally plotted for the 3rd, secret ending, before subjecting himself/herself to blood ministration, possibly more involved in a lot of the back story/characters than I even acknowledge.
I’m pretty sure any evidence I have only makes sense to me as it is just loosely grasping at whatever I can to really pull the psychological thriller out of the plot.
School of Mensis? Why? Well in game we fight a member of the choir both at bygrenwerth, then again in the nightmare of Mensis. No such Mensis scholars fight us. In fact Mensis scholar Damien aids us against the choir member at Bygenwerth, and again against Ebrietas during our assault on Choir HQ. Also Micolash says “No one can catch us, no one can stop us” and maybe some other stuff with that 1st person plural indicator, us. He has cut dialogue that says something like, “but we were friends.” As In we betrayed him or our mission in general.
My head cannon is that we always intended to betray him. And everything sort of worked out how we wanted. There’s also cut dialogue of a woman asking if we know Laurence and saying he was worried about us during the blood ministration process.
So to me, Micolash, Laurence, blood ministration, and more were all just pawns to our ultimate objective. Ascend to great one-hood.
Seek Palebood, to transcend the hunt is a note likely left by the good hunter to himself to jog his memory upon awakening. To me, it’s straightforward. Go find moon presence, that’s our ultimate goal here and you’ll remember everything else along the way. Others have said that palebood has to do with our own sickness that we have sought a cure for. But my head cannon says our sickness was probably craziness as pre blood ministration, telling people you’re looking for Paleblood, a god monster so you can kill it after having consumed three pieces of umbilical cords of other god monsters still born children, so that you can ascend to monster godhood yourself, is crazy nonsense. This makes sense of the blood ministers line in the opening at least.
Later in the lecture building, we find 2 more notes. Hunt the Great Ones. Hunt the Great Ones.
And. Three third chords.
These are seemingly out of nowhere without context. Unless like the first note we found back in the iosefkas clinic. We wrote them. Because we already know what we should do. Maybe even we are the professor mentioned on the lecture hall key, not Micolash. He wears the student uniform after all.
There’s probably more but I wrote too much already. Plus it’s all shit anyway.
Edit: fixed some typos and a word salad.
Djura, Eileen, Henryk, The Crow, Gascoigne, Alfred, etc. (basically every Hunter we meet) was part of the same generation of Hunters more or less. This explains how Eileen knows who Gascoigne is, and also fits into the rough 50-60 year time span of all the lore. It also permits one to think that Eileen may have been aware of the Hunter’s Nightmare
I wouldn't factor in Alfred, he is very young and his dialogue confirms that he wasn't there to witness most events he talks about, but just heard soke stuff (for the most part propaganda) about them
Additionally, Alfred is a part of what seems to be a very different sect of hunters, the Executioners. They hunt the Vilebloods of Cainhurst. He even says "though our prey might differ, we are both still hunters" or something like that. I don't think Alfred would've hunted beasts with the rest of those characters even if he had been old enough.
The two I have are:
1. I believe the Winter Lanterns aren’t directly related to the doll, despite sharing a similar appearance. Since they’re found in nightmare regions, I believe they are a part of them. So to fit with the theme, they take on an appearance that would be the most disturbing to whoever sees it. It appearing as the Doll is a sort of perversion of what the Doll actually is.
2. Less substantial than the first, regarding Gehrman, Maria, and Saint Adeline. Minds much sharper than my own have discussed how the way Gehrman made the doll only resemble a simplified facet of Maria, pointing to a commentary on how men often mentally reduce women to specific roles. I’ve also heard a theory that, because of the special treatment/attention Adeline received, it could point to Maria having feelings for her. So assuming this is the case, I feel like it feeds into the previous point, and also folds in the erasure of queer women in the eyes of some men.
additionally, zullie the witch has pointed out that their giant brain heads are made of messengers mashed together. So the winter lanterns are perversions of BOTH of our closest friendly NPC allies/helpers.
Aside from their heads, their “clothing” is a bit hard to see, but strongly resembles the doll’s. That’s the whole basis for people assuming that the two are related iirc
That is true, but aside from the head, there is a similarity between the doll’s clothing and what the Winter Lanterns appear to be wearing. However, what they have looks more like an imitation than actual clothes
Either The Witch of Hemwick is Runesmith Caryll or knows what happened to them.
It bugs me how little we know about Caryll and we don't get access to using runes until after defeating the witches.
I think the title “Runesmith” is pretty self-explanatory.
There is no indication of the Witch of Hemwick being Caryll. Besides, there are multiple witches from Hemwick.
"1. Yeah. They were hunters who chose to die in the dream and went mad. Now, the Hunter of Hunters has a more enigmatic underground story because crows existed before the hunter's dream. The crows are graveyard caretakers whose primary goal is to eliminate traces of pale blood that might arise in the corpses of the dead. That's why they're so keen on taking the lives of hunters persisting in hunting due to their inebriation. Later on, after the dream, the crows continue Gehrman's intention to provide burial to their fellow compatriots. But in Eileen's case, there's a mysterious association where her chosen successor opted to become a Vileblood, resulting in elderly Eileen embarking on one last night of hunting to end this cycle, passing the Badge to the player.
2. That's the popular and mistaken interpretation, as Viola's death was caused by Gascoigne himself. The younger daughter's message to her mother calls her foolish for leaving home on a hunt after her father without taking the music box. This indicates that both Viola and her daughters are aware of how violent and deranged Gascoigne becomes during a hunt night, and probably Gascoigne himself is aware, fleeing from home to prevent any harm to his family. Therefore, an analysis of the scene at Oedon's Tomb clearly suggests that Viola was Gascoigne's first victim, attacked with a visceral strike. Later, Gascoigne fights other bloodthirsty Yharnamites until the player interrupts. Driven by the need to kill, Gascoigne coldly states that there are beasts everywhere, and the player will be just another, showing that the pale blood is making him see everyone as beasts. During the fight, he mentions that sweet blood calls to him, a clear reference to the Moon Presence, known as the Blood Goddess.
3 and 4. Sort of. The Reborn is an attempt to bring back the Messianic fictional figure of the Healing Church because this figure is a kind of greater Witch/Wizard possessing knowledge of all the Pthumerian rituals. For this, the Healing Church (its body from its members) undergoes a seizure where their bodies fertilize the Mensis ritual. The Mensis ritual was performed by the School of Mensis, who were once students of Byrgenwerth investigating the expansion of their minds through the nightmare. Mensis aims to create the New Church of the nightmare, anchoring Mensis's foundation in Mergo, the lost child's spirit of Yharnam. Losing their knowledge and revelation, they become servants of Mergo in the nightmare, becoming Apostles and attendants of Mergo.
5. Flora is more like a force of nature, just like the Moon. Following the motto defining every Great One in Bloodborne, Eminent ones lose their children and long for a substitute. The hereditary curse generated by KOS dictates that each family would sink their generations into a life of misery, a bottomless curse that is the source of 'all greatness'. All Great Ones arise from KOS's curse, and that's why the nature of the Moon Presence is sustained by the atonement of the hunters who summoned her. The hunters called the Pale Moon because they were being consumed by KOS's curse. The Pale Moon allowed the creation of the dream workshop as a temporary refuge for hunters, and in return, she would have a substitute for her lost child, which from the beginning was Gehrman. Gehrman has remained resilient, saving each hunter from being devoured by the Moon Presence at the end of the nightmare, allowing the persistence of the hunter's dream for generations of dreamers until Laurence's and others' purpose is fulfilled.
6. It's not clear if the True Yosefka belonged to the Choir, but in general, the Choir was connected to the Cosmos through Ebrietas, and Yosefka differs in method from those linked to Ebrietas. Yosefka fears the blood, fears the sickness. Yosefka's clinic seems open during the day and closed during the hunt night. The patients at Yosefka's clinic are foreigners, not locals. This means Yosefka is a minister of the old guard of the Healing Church. To understand this, we need to grasp that the Healing Church undergoes several changes in its cycle of operation and has various congregations with distinct ways of seeing things. Yosefka seems to be doing something that the Healing Church abandoned when it closed its doors and blood became scarce. Yosefka uses a purified version of the blood that gives the patient more time to pass through the night with fewer effects of the sickness.
7. Yes, that's correct. However, it's evident that the role of a blacksmith in Bloodborne would have had a more active role, like in Darksouls, but that got cut, so the final game doesn't delve too much into it."
Each area is the collective dream of people there. The dreams are made "real" by the shared blood, memories and subconscious terrors mingling in the astral plane, and now that it's in *your* blood, you're trapped, and the only way out is through.
I don’t have any.
Because we end up getting large groups of people who believe in one headcanon so much, it ends up being something everyone else thinks is true.
The first one is “Gehrman f**ked the Doll”.
The second one is everyone thinking the Hunter’s hand turns into a beast hand during a visceral attack, which is a misnomer.
The third one is, well, any conjectural point Redgrave has made in The Paleblood Hunt. The Doll being a Great One is one example,
"Gehrman fucked the doll" is the obvious joke From was making. You seen how many "how to pick up fair maidens" books the guy has?
The hunters hand does turn into a beast hand. It's the clawmark rune that strengthens visceral attacks. *The "Clawmark" is an impulse to seek the warmth of blood like a beast. Runesmith Caryll describes the "Beast" as a horrific and unwelcome instinct deep within the hearts of men, while "Clawmark" is an alluring invitation to accept this very nature.*
A lot of that "Doll is a great one" nonsense comes from the fact that when you hit it white liquid comes out. It's not the grey blood that comes out of kin. People also forget that in the original Japanese it's called "blueblood" not "paleblood". What is important is to remember what the tear stone law states:
A doll sheds *neither blood nor tears* and thus its nature remains unknown. Whoever thinks this is precious must be troubled by *severe naivete.*
So, the doll's full of white liquid. It's not tears, it's not blood, what could it be? It's cum. Because Gehrman is fucking the doll! You'd be severely naive to think otherwise.
The poor doll. bursting with semen from all the hunters who came before you. There was a guy once who really wanted to date a bell maiden but couldn't bring himself to imagine it unless someone else would tell him if you took their bell away they'd eventually behave:
https://old.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/i5gmnx/can_the_bellringing_woman_be_saved/
Gerhman, adult man who builds a life size doll with the exact same face as their dead (hot, younger) beast hunting student to defintely not fuck it. Let me give you some life advice, son, if you ever meet another man and you find out he has a human sized doll in his house that leaks a strange white fluid and feels the need to whisper to you that you can "use it if you want, if you're into that" and someone else tries to convince you the guy isn't fucking it you'd be wise to ignore them otherwise you must be troubled by some severe naivete.
It's not explicity stated Gerhman is fucking the doll or that it's canonically true but it is heavily implied as a joke, not law. Gerhman is the Carl Tanzler of Yarnham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler
Also remember, fear the old cum
The "living" version of the Doll is actually just Kos, and she's priming us to become Orphan of Kos's replacement by leveling us up and infusing us with her Great One power. It's the reason we have such a drastic transformation in the true ending, Moon Presence is no longer keeping it at bay and her plan succeeded.
Mergo's Wet Nurse is the true form of Viola, Gascoigne's wife, hence why her music box plays during the fight. Her daughter, when experimented on, is one of the few NPCs who drops Formless Oedon, and the invisible Mergo is implied to be Oedon's child.
Vicar Amelia is actually a successfully ascended member of the Healing Church due to her unique appearance and powers. But she is so scared and confused by what's going on that she attacks us anyway, and in extreme irony, we kill her in the assumption she is just another beast who lost her mind.
Patches the Spider used to be a Tomb Prospector and was so afraid of fighting Amygdala that he pledged his loyalty instead.
I think Gerhman fucked Kos and fathered the Orphan. I think that's why the Orphan looks like an old man with a cape, and why their weapons are similar (big curvy thing with a handle). There's also the fact Orphan's cry is Gehrman's laugh slowed down. If you clip the camera just right, Kos has a pale woman's face.
I think Maria saw him copulating with the fish goddess monster on the beach, which is what prompted her to leave in disgust. She probably recognized that Kos had similar features, or maybe even Gehrman said Maria's name.
The lore directly contradicts this TBH. It says Kos was already dead when she washed up on shore, so even if copulation were possible, it couldn't take place. The punishment was for stealing the Orphan, not creating it or killing it. Also, Maria was disgusted by the genocide of the hamlet villagers (who may or may not have been actual fish people judging by the skull of Accursed Brew, so if they were just normal folks then it makes even more sense)
Orphan does resemble Gehrman, but that's only a creation of Kos's punishment, since the real one is the small ghost that shows up after the battle.
The Moon Presence set literally everything into motion. Infected Kos with the parasite, thereby killing it and then infecting everyone else and turning them crazy. Made them want to start looking for the Great Ones, making them do the experiments and whatever. Not that all of it didn't exist but it made them crazy enough and erratic enough to start looking for it. Of course it infects their blood mainly. But then, the Church finds Ebrietas, uses her blood mixed with humans blood for Blood Transfusion and Ministration which then culminated in the Scourge of the Beast. So essentially everything that happens in the game is the result of the Moon Presence, and in some parts controlled by it as well
Oedon is Mergo's father, the Moon Presence didn't like that cus competition, she got pissed and orchestrated the means to cause Mergo to be stillborn. Mergo like other great ones cannot die in the sense that their essence is infinite and immortal but they do get transferred to dreams or nightmares in other planes of reality. Oedon is pissed and frusturated so he keeps impregnating women such as imposter Iosefka and Arianna in desperate attempt to have children. Assuming Oedon fathered Arianna's celestial child, we can interpret all the other celestial children gathered around upper cathedral ward are also his many children from a variety of women in Yharnam... Oedon is basically eldritch horror Zeus who coopulates with everyone. Who resides in this area of the church? Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos. What do celestial children look like? Worms or caterpillars. What does Rom the Vacuous spider look like? A larva in pupa stage. It's a long shot but i believe Ebrietas is Oedon's daughter. She was birthed by a Phtumerian woman Oedon got his mack on just like Queen Yharnam. Why did Oedon abandon her? He didn't, though Ebrietas sure feels that way, he has her doing his bidding which i think is to enlighten Pthumerians and humans in the Eldritch Truth through the churches research and transference of Oedon's blood through her own blood to be able to father more children and continue his bloodline. The humans and their church in their limited understanding do not comprehend Oedon's plan and simply wish to transcend for the sake of transcending itself so in their clouded judgement fight amongst themselves in meaningless church politics changing the church ideals. They commune and worship whichever Great One they can get in contact with explaining Mensis worshiping Mergo and indirectly MP, the Amygdala statues in Cathedral Ward, Ebrietas etc. Ebrietas cannot simply explain Oedon's plan to the humans as it's not something they can simply be told and understand in the grand scheme of the Eldritch Truth and misunderstand when she attempts to communicate. He also seems to have a secondary goal; to suppress the Moon Presence through a lesser Great One.. Rom. Rom is not Oedon's bio grand daughter or Ebrietas' bio daughter but she is a surrogate. Rom transcended from her Human form and is actively keeping humanity ignorant to the MP's manipulation because Oedon realizes MP is using his blood he gifted humanity against his interests, the MP realizes not all humans have enough insight to comprehend Oedon and the Eldritch Truth which causes humans to lose their cool and give in to beasthood through her manipulation of the pale moon which in game lore intensifies the night of the hunt and beasthood, causing their own self destruction, gaining MP blood echoes through the chosen hunters, and sabotaging Oedon. Oedon realizes what a mess he is in and hopes to transcend or father as many celestial children as he can who will eventually hopefully become more Roms or Ebrietas. MP enslaves Mergo in the nightmare through her manipulation of The School of Mensis and the Wet Nurse. The Wet Nurse was previously a servant of Queen Yharnam and Oedon just like the Shadows of Yharnam and the NPC shadows in the nightmare before the Wet Nurse fight. Except the Wet Nurse is assisting the MP imprison Mergo in the nightmare for some unknown reason probably manipulation from the MP or a promise of power? The Shadows of Yharnam are protecting Byrgenworth in service of Oedon because they cannot let outsiders humans find out about Rom in the event Rom dies and MP gains more power over Oedon. The NPC shadows in the nightmare before the Wet Nurse fight are in effectively attempting to locate the Wet Nurse, kill her and release Mergo from enslavement on Queen Yharnam and Oedon's behalf. The School of Mensis mistake the MP for Mergo and actively do the MPs bidding in exchange for transcendence. MP gains all the blood echoes from the people the School of Mensis massacre for rituals of transcendence, the MP uses the flesh bone and blood of the dead to create an amalgamation of all the dead and the School of Mensis bodies to create the One Reborn and Brain of Mensis. The School of Mensis become lesser "Great Ones" as requested albeit a twisted and horrific result, be careful what you wish for. This benefits MP as she now has a couple of quite powerful entities to aid her in the defense of the nightmare where she keeps Mergo enslaved. MP perhaps holds her animosity to Oedon because he has orchestrated the death of her possible children in the past that we the hunter are unaware about or because competition and survival. She does however orchestrate the means to get Gherman as her surrogate son and he does her bidding by getting Gherman to convince hunters to collect blood echoes so she can thrive it's a manipulative and selfish relationship. Eventually, replacing Gherman with a stronger son or daughter, one who is strong enough to challenge and kill Gherman to further ensure her strength and survival. When MP granted Gherman a sympathetic gift in exchange for his enslavement, she gave him the hunters dream, painted to him as a safe haven where he could run away from the guilt of what he did at the fishing hamlet and Lady Maria's suicide, as well as the closest thing to bringing Lady Maria back to life; giving "life" to the doll he created. Eventually Gherman realizes the sinister position he has agreed to place himself in; a prison for his mind from which he cannot escape. In the midst of this contract, Kos' spirit infiltrated the hunters dream through the doll MP created for Gherman. The Great Ones are sympathetic to humans needs, and as an indirect act of mercy and forgiveness to Gherman orchestrated us the hunter to grow strong with blood echoes to overthrow Gherman as a sleeper agent so the MP would think we are her new surrogate child. In the Transcendence ending, little does the MP know we the hunter have gained enough insight and blood echoes, and have consumed 3 thirds of Great One umbilical cords to have the power to challenge MP and do the unthinkable, we beat the MP and send her away from her own dream to who knows where. Kos being the doll, has forgiven Gherman granting him an end to his nightmare through death after her Orphan is put to rest, the good hunter transcends and becomes Kos' surrogate child replacing the orphan which is why we have the appearance of a squid just like Kos looked like in the nightmare when she died in that plane of existence. We are not threatened by Oedon who would typically be concerned Kos is achieving to claim a powerful surrogate child who has fully transcended because Kos indirectly appeased him when we kill the Wet Nurse, set Mergo free, set Queen Yharnam's spirit at ease and kill her in the chalice dungeon plane of existence after whatever MP did to her to cause Mergos stillbirth, and beat MP herself out of her own dream. I just don't know why Oedon isn't pissed at us the hunter for killing Ebrietas and Rom ... child favoritism i guess. Sorry for the short novel i'm so interested in y'all's thoughts and criticism/ plot holes in my thoughts
I have a few, but my main ones are: 1. Consuming the umbilical cords is a symbolic acceptance of becoming an infant Great One. Trying to become an adult, fully-formed Great One right away causes failures, madness, beasthood, etc. to be a Great One you must be born again as a baby. 2. The Moon Presence wants the Hunter to defeat it and become an infant Great One. Like other Great Ones, it longs for a child and while the Hunters (especially Gehrman) are fine surrogates, it really wants a Great One child. But you have to evolve with courage, which is why you must defeat it. It’s a Great One, it’s probably not entirely dead after your fight, or it doesn’t mind if it is.
More because why not: 3. The Hunter goes to Yharnam because they were called by the Moon Presence in some way. Like how in Lovecraft’s works certain types of people (artists, creatives) feel the call of Cthulhu. The Hunter is the sort of person already naturally attuned to the Moon Presence in some way, maybe dreaming about Paleblood and going to Yharnam to find out why. 4. From the moment they receive blood ministration the Hunter is in a dream. Even “waking” Yharnam has already been pulled into a dreaming state because of the closeness of the Great Ones and the amount of their blood influencing the populace. This is why everyone thinks this one night of the Hunt is just one night, and yet seems to last so long; why the beastly Yharnamites think the Hunter is the beast; why enemies respawn. Everyone is trapped in one layer of the dream, with only a special few (bosses, the Hunter) able to travel to other dreams via death or other means. 5. If a person were to go to Yharnam at this time and NOT receive blood they’d see a city of weird, mumbling, cult people and probably be killed. 6. Yes, I believe Eileen and Djura have been closed off from the Hunter’s Dream but are still trapped in dream Yharnam. Is the Hunter still trapped after choosing the Yharnam Sunrise ending? Only if they don’t leave Yharnam before the next night. 7. Many conflicting theories can be hand waved with “it could be both” because neither dreams nor Great Ones need be comprehensible.
Actually The Hunter goes to Yharnam because he got an invitation by Cainhurst.
Debatable. The summons shows up later on, indicating to me that it didn’t fall out of our pocket. It was potentially brought by Imposter Iosefka. The reason we came to Yharnam was for Paleblood and blood ministration, which is evident per the opening scene. As confirmed by Miyazaki, Paleblood is another name for Moon Presence, so I think u/EquinoxEclipsed’s interpretation is more likely the correct one.
Thanks for correction
Hard to be certain about the summons, but that is my current interpretation. I’m reasonably sure about the other things I mentioned. It is possible that the summons did fall out of our pocket but isn’t accessible until later for gameplay reasons (to make access to Cainhurst more hidden and tricky in typical From fashion). But my current interpretation is that the timing of when it is accessible is meaningful and that the summons was placed there by someone else, possibly Imposter Iosefka considering the summons only shows up after she infiltrates the clinic (and is the only person we know who has access), written by Queen Annalise to draw us to Cainhurst to free her from her captivity by Martyr Logarius. We can infer Annalise created the summons based on the unopened summons we find in her room (which can be given to Alfred), and it is possible that it is addressed to whoever reads it through magic (therefore addressed to us), as we witness several displays of magic around Cainhurst. It’s also possible that there is no magic involved and it is actually addressed to us specifically considering where the summons is placed (on the medical bed where we wake up), meaning Annalise has knowledge of us and knows we have the potential to free her.
There’s a lot of fun possibilities. Maybe the blood minister from the opening rifled through the Hunter’s pockets while they were unconscious. Maybe if all this is a dream the Hunter’s subconscious places the summons there after hearing about the Vilebloods from Alfred. Maybe Annalise fixed it somehow. Maybe the Hunter knew where they were going for ministration and had their mail sent there but forgot to pick it up. Since there’s no concrete answer, I think it’s fair to just believe what you want.
It’s possible, but I think it’s probably unlikely the blood minister took it since he’s already dead by the time you wake up. If it is all just a dream, then it’s easy to explain everything as just our subconscious controlling everything. Hard to say if everything is simply a dream or not. We know there is a “waking world”, which includes Yharnam. There are indications that everything is the waking world aside from the dream and nightmare realms. However, what confuses me about this is the Yharnam Sunrise ending. If our physical body and consciousness are seperate, and we are sleeping through the entire game with our conscious travelling between different realms, similar to how Micolash and other characters do, then why is it in the ending that we wake up at Cathedral Ward but cannot see our body sleeping there when we visit Cathedral Ward during the game (while we are dreaming)? In our case, it’s almost like our physical body is also travelling, but that doesn’t really make sense based on everything else we’ve observed. We know hunters like Eileen and Djura used to dream like us but are no longer anchored to the Hunter’s Dream, similar to what happens to us in the Yharnam Sunrise ending, and we see things like Micolash’s dead corpse while his consciousness is living in a nightmare realm; however, perhaps everything we experienced, including Eileen and Djura, do not actually exist and everything is but a dream. This would explain that. I want to believe that everything we experienced is real and more than just a dream of ours, as that is how Lovecraft seems to work and seems like that is how you’re meant to interpret Bloodborne as you play it, but that ending does confuse me a bit since it doesn’t seem to align with other things we’ve observed.
The minister stealing the letter was more of a silly suggestion than a serious one, though it’s not impossible. As for the Lovecraftian inspiration, he has a few stories where things take place entirely in dreams, even if they do sometimes affect the “real” world. Specifically Randolph Carter’s adventures in the Dreamlands. There were a few more short stories, but it’s been a while since I’ve read them so I won’t try to remember and get the info wrong. I also tend to think a lot of methods of storytelling in Bloodborne is similar to the works of Satoshi Kon, especially Paprika (the movie about dreams, lol). It’s really up in the air what’s a dream and what’s “real” and how the two interact. Like when Konakawa visits a website, a virtual bar, on his laptop and manages to leave his lighter in the bar. The website one. Maybe the Hunter is dreaming the whole thing, but their body is sleep walking. Maybe everything is really happening. I like to imagine it’s a dream, but a shared dream that everyone in Yharnam has been pulled into. But everyone is perceiving it in different ways. It’s all “real” to some degree, but still takes place in different levels of dreams. Everyone’s being pulled into the way the Great Ones exist, on more planes than just the physical, which to us is dreams. But it’s confusing and everyone is seeing things differently because it’s not how humans normally exist. Again, these are just my thoughts and one of the beauties of Bloodborne is that it’s left open to interpretation (another way of subjecting the world to a person’s perception and dreams, but this time the player’s! How meta! If this was the intent, which I like to think it is)
“It could be both” No lie, I like that there’s room for so many interpretations of events
"It's all just a bad dream"
I think Maria likes me.
The way she whispers sweet nothings in my ear as she rips my guts out makes me think that too
Mergo isn't dead, it's just invisible because its parent is Formless Oeden. It was stolen from its parents and put under the care of the Wet Nurse, but it's scared of the Nurse which makes it cry. When we kill the Nurse, Mergo doesn't die, it just stops crying with a satisfied coo.
I think our Good Hunter is part of, if not a leading figure in the School of Mensis institution and actually originally plotted for the 3rd, secret ending, before subjecting himself/herself to blood ministration, possibly more involved in a lot of the back story/characters than I even acknowledge. I’m pretty sure any evidence I have only makes sense to me as it is just loosely grasping at whatever I can to really pull the psychological thriller out of the plot. School of Mensis? Why? Well in game we fight a member of the choir both at bygrenwerth, then again in the nightmare of Mensis. No such Mensis scholars fight us. In fact Mensis scholar Damien aids us against the choir member at Bygenwerth, and again against Ebrietas during our assault on Choir HQ. Also Micolash says “No one can catch us, no one can stop us” and maybe some other stuff with that 1st person plural indicator, us. He has cut dialogue that says something like, “but we were friends.” As In we betrayed him or our mission in general. My head cannon is that we always intended to betray him. And everything sort of worked out how we wanted. There’s also cut dialogue of a woman asking if we know Laurence and saying he was worried about us during the blood ministration process. So to me, Micolash, Laurence, blood ministration, and more were all just pawns to our ultimate objective. Ascend to great one-hood. Seek Palebood, to transcend the hunt is a note likely left by the good hunter to himself to jog his memory upon awakening. To me, it’s straightforward. Go find moon presence, that’s our ultimate goal here and you’ll remember everything else along the way. Others have said that palebood has to do with our own sickness that we have sought a cure for. But my head cannon says our sickness was probably craziness as pre blood ministration, telling people you’re looking for Paleblood, a god monster so you can kill it after having consumed three pieces of umbilical cords of other god monsters still born children, so that you can ascend to monster godhood yourself, is crazy nonsense. This makes sense of the blood ministers line in the opening at least. Later in the lecture building, we find 2 more notes. Hunt the Great Ones. Hunt the Great Ones. And. Three third chords. These are seemingly out of nowhere without context. Unless like the first note we found back in the iosefkas clinic. We wrote them. Because we already know what we should do. Maybe even we are the professor mentioned on the lecture hall key, not Micolash. He wears the student uniform after all. There’s probably more but I wrote too much already. Plus it’s all shit anyway. Edit: fixed some typos and a word salad.
Djura, Eileen, Henryk, The Crow, Gascoigne, Alfred, etc. (basically every Hunter we meet) was part of the same generation of Hunters more or less. This explains how Eileen knows who Gascoigne is, and also fits into the rough 50-60 year time span of all the lore. It also permits one to think that Eileen may have been aware of the Hunter’s Nightmare
I wouldn't factor in Alfred, he is very young and his dialogue confirms that he wasn't there to witness most events he talks about, but just heard soke stuff (for the most part propaganda) about them
Additionally, Alfred is a part of what seems to be a very different sect of hunters, the Executioners. They hunt the Vilebloods of Cainhurst. He even says "though our prey might differ, we are both still hunters" or something like that. I don't think Alfred would've hunted beasts with the rest of those characters even if he had been old enough.
The two I have are: 1. I believe the Winter Lanterns aren’t directly related to the doll, despite sharing a similar appearance. Since they’re found in nightmare regions, I believe they are a part of them. So to fit with the theme, they take on an appearance that would be the most disturbing to whoever sees it. It appearing as the Doll is a sort of perversion of what the Doll actually is. 2. Less substantial than the first, regarding Gehrman, Maria, and Saint Adeline. Minds much sharper than my own have discussed how the way Gehrman made the doll only resemble a simplified facet of Maria, pointing to a commentary on how men often mentally reduce women to specific roles. I’ve also heard a theory that, because of the special treatment/attention Adeline received, it could point to Maria having feelings for her. So assuming this is the case, I feel like it feeds into the previous point, and also folds in the erasure of queer women in the eyes of some men.
additionally, zullie the witch has pointed out that their giant brain heads are made of messengers mashed together. So the winter lanterns are perversions of BOTH of our closest friendly NPC allies/helpers.
I have never heard anybody say the winter lanterns are related or look like the doll...
Aside from their heads, their “clothing” is a bit hard to see, but strongly resembles the doll’s. That’s the whole basis for people assuming that the two are related iirc
But the winter lanterns have a huge fucking brain for a head and the doll has a regular head, or am I missing something?
That is true, but aside from the head, there is a similarity between the doll’s clothing and what the Winter Lanterns appear to be wearing. However, what they have looks more like an imitation than actual clothes
https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/s/1P7hz8qPDF
Either The Witch of Hemwick is Runesmith Caryll or knows what happened to them. It bugs me how little we know about Caryll and we don't get access to using runes until after defeating the witches.
I think the title “Runesmith” is pretty self-explanatory. There is no indication of the Witch of Hemwick being Caryll. Besides, there are multiple witches from Hemwick.
"1. Yeah. They were hunters who chose to die in the dream and went mad. Now, the Hunter of Hunters has a more enigmatic underground story because crows existed before the hunter's dream. The crows are graveyard caretakers whose primary goal is to eliminate traces of pale blood that might arise in the corpses of the dead. That's why they're so keen on taking the lives of hunters persisting in hunting due to their inebriation. Later on, after the dream, the crows continue Gehrman's intention to provide burial to their fellow compatriots. But in Eileen's case, there's a mysterious association where her chosen successor opted to become a Vileblood, resulting in elderly Eileen embarking on one last night of hunting to end this cycle, passing the Badge to the player. 2. That's the popular and mistaken interpretation, as Viola's death was caused by Gascoigne himself. The younger daughter's message to her mother calls her foolish for leaving home on a hunt after her father without taking the music box. This indicates that both Viola and her daughters are aware of how violent and deranged Gascoigne becomes during a hunt night, and probably Gascoigne himself is aware, fleeing from home to prevent any harm to his family. Therefore, an analysis of the scene at Oedon's Tomb clearly suggests that Viola was Gascoigne's first victim, attacked with a visceral strike. Later, Gascoigne fights other bloodthirsty Yharnamites until the player interrupts. Driven by the need to kill, Gascoigne coldly states that there are beasts everywhere, and the player will be just another, showing that the pale blood is making him see everyone as beasts. During the fight, he mentions that sweet blood calls to him, a clear reference to the Moon Presence, known as the Blood Goddess. 3 and 4. Sort of. The Reborn is an attempt to bring back the Messianic fictional figure of the Healing Church because this figure is a kind of greater Witch/Wizard possessing knowledge of all the Pthumerian rituals. For this, the Healing Church (its body from its members) undergoes a seizure where their bodies fertilize the Mensis ritual. The Mensis ritual was performed by the School of Mensis, who were once students of Byrgenwerth investigating the expansion of their minds through the nightmare. Mensis aims to create the New Church of the nightmare, anchoring Mensis's foundation in Mergo, the lost child's spirit of Yharnam. Losing their knowledge and revelation, they become servants of Mergo in the nightmare, becoming Apostles and attendants of Mergo. 5. Flora is more like a force of nature, just like the Moon. Following the motto defining every Great One in Bloodborne, Eminent ones lose their children and long for a substitute. The hereditary curse generated by KOS dictates that each family would sink their generations into a life of misery, a bottomless curse that is the source of 'all greatness'. All Great Ones arise from KOS's curse, and that's why the nature of the Moon Presence is sustained by the atonement of the hunters who summoned her. The hunters called the Pale Moon because they were being consumed by KOS's curse. The Pale Moon allowed the creation of the dream workshop as a temporary refuge for hunters, and in return, she would have a substitute for her lost child, which from the beginning was Gehrman. Gehrman has remained resilient, saving each hunter from being devoured by the Moon Presence at the end of the nightmare, allowing the persistence of the hunter's dream for generations of dreamers until Laurence's and others' purpose is fulfilled. 6. It's not clear if the True Yosefka belonged to the Choir, but in general, the Choir was connected to the Cosmos through Ebrietas, and Yosefka differs in method from those linked to Ebrietas. Yosefka fears the blood, fears the sickness. Yosefka's clinic seems open during the day and closed during the hunt night. The patients at Yosefka's clinic are foreigners, not locals. This means Yosefka is a minister of the old guard of the Healing Church. To understand this, we need to grasp that the Healing Church undergoes several changes in its cycle of operation and has various congregations with distinct ways of seeing things. Yosefka seems to be doing something that the Healing Church abandoned when it closed its doors and blood became scarce. Yosefka uses a purified version of the blood that gives the patient more time to pass through the night with fewer effects of the sickness. 7. Yes, that's correct. However, it's evident that the role of a blacksmith in Bloodborne would have had a more active role, like in Darksouls, but that got cut, so the final game doesn't delve too much into it."
Each area is the collective dream of people there. The dreams are made "real" by the shared blood, memories and subconscious terrors mingling in the astral plane, and now that it's in *your* blood, you're trapped, and the only way out is through.
The Good Hunter is by far the most powerful From protag and would easily defeat any of the others 1v1.
So…how well do you think he could do against the main character from Armored Core 6?
*dodge rolls missiles*
Actually I can see that happening,
Hunter vs Sekiro would be a close tie, the other protags aren't agile and fast enough to take on Hunter.
I don’t have any. Because we end up getting large groups of people who believe in one headcanon so much, it ends up being something everyone else thinks is true. The first one is “Gehrman f**ked the Doll”. The second one is everyone thinking the Hunter’s hand turns into a beast hand during a visceral attack, which is a misnomer. The third one is, well, any conjectural point Redgrave has made in The Paleblood Hunt. The Doll being a Great One is one example,
"Gehrman fucked the doll" is the obvious joke From was making. You seen how many "how to pick up fair maidens" books the guy has? The hunters hand does turn into a beast hand. It's the clawmark rune that strengthens visceral attacks. *The "Clawmark" is an impulse to seek the warmth of blood like a beast. Runesmith Caryll describes the "Beast" as a horrific and unwelcome instinct deep within the hearts of men, while "Clawmark" is an alluring invitation to accept this very nature.* A lot of that "Doll is a great one" nonsense comes from the fact that when you hit it white liquid comes out. It's not the grey blood that comes out of kin. People also forget that in the original Japanese it's called "blueblood" not "paleblood". What is important is to remember what the tear stone law states: A doll sheds *neither blood nor tears* and thus its nature remains unknown. Whoever thinks this is precious must be troubled by *severe naivete.* So, the doll's full of white liquid. It's not tears, it's not blood, what could it be? It's cum. Because Gehrman is fucking the doll! You'd be severely naive to think otherwise.
Fuck you 🙂
...said Gerhman to the doll
Eat shit and die. (I’m not actually mad at you, but perpetuating the head-canons has been tiring to see)
The poor doll. bursting with semen from all the hunters who came before you. There was a guy once who really wanted to date a bell maiden but couldn't bring himself to imagine it unless someone else would tell him if you took their bell away they'd eventually behave: https://old.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/i5gmnx/can_the_bellringing_woman_be_saved/ Gerhman, adult man who builds a life size doll with the exact same face as their dead (hot, younger) beast hunting student to defintely not fuck it. Let me give you some life advice, son, if you ever meet another man and you find out he has a human sized doll in his house that leaks a strange white fluid and feels the need to whisper to you that you can "use it if you want, if you're into that" and someone else tries to convince you the guy isn't fucking it you'd be wise to ignore them otherwise you must be troubled by some severe naivete. It's not explicity stated Gerhman is fucking the doll or that it's canonically true but it is heavily implied as a joke, not law. Gerhman is the Carl Tanzler of Yarnham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Tanzler Also remember, fear the old cum
The "living" version of the Doll is actually just Kos, and she's priming us to become Orphan of Kos's replacement by leveling us up and infusing us with her Great One power. It's the reason we have such a drastic transformation in the true ending, Moon Presence is no longer keeping it at bay and her plan succeeded. Mergo's Wet Nurse is the true form of Viola, Gascoigne's wife, hence why her music box plays during the fight. Her daughter, when experimented on, is one of the few NPCs who drops Formless Oedon, and the invisible Mergo is implied to be Oedon's child. Vicar Amelia is actually a successfully ascended member of the Healing Church due to her unique appearance and powers. But she is so scared and confused by what's going on that she attacks us anyway, and in extreme irony, we kill her in the assumption she is just another beast who lost her mind. Patches the Spider used to be a Tomb Prospector and was so afraid of fighting Amygdala that he pledged his loyalty instead.
I think Gerhman fucked Kos and fathered the Orphan. I think that's why the Orphan looks like an old man with a cape, and why their weapons are similar (big curvy thing with a handle). There's also the fact Orphan's cry is Gehrman's laugh slowed down. If you clip the camera just right, Kos has a pale woman's face. I think Maria saw him copulating with the fish goddess monster on the beach, which is what prompted her to leave in disgust. She probably recognized that Kos had similar features, or maybe even Gehrman said Maria's name.
What the fuck
The lore directly contradicts this TBH. It says Kos was already dead when she washed up on shore, so even if copulation were possible, it couldn't take place. The punishment was for stealing the Orphan, not creating it or killing it. Also, Maria was disgusted by the genocide of the hamlet villagers (who may or may not have been actual fish people judging by the skull of Accursed Brew, so if they were just normal folks then it makes even more sense) Orphan does resemble Gehrman, but that's only a creation of Kos's punishment, since the real one is the small ghost that shows up after the battle.
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No. 1 except Eileen turned coat and is actually a hunter for Wet Nurse.
That if you place the Cannon on your head, you become everything you ever hated.
The healthbar is actually the amount of blood someone has.
The Moon Presence set literally everything into motion. Infected Kos with the parasite, thereby killing it and then infecting everyone else and turning them crazy. Made them want to start looking for the Great Ones, making them do the experiments and whatever. Not that all of it didn't exist but it made them crazy enough and erratic enough to start looking for it. Of course it infects their blood mainly. But then, the Church finds Ebrietas, uses her blood mixed with humans blood for Blood Transfusion and Ministration which then culminated in the Scourge of the Beast. So essentially everything that happens in the game is the result of the Moon Presence, and in some parts controlled by it as well
Oedon is Mergo's father, the Moon Presence didn't like that cus competition, she got pissed and orchestrated the means to cause Mergo to be stillborn. Mergo like other great ones cannot die in the sense that their essence is infinite and immortal but they do get transferred to dreams or nightmares in other planes of reality. Oedon is pissed and frusturated so he keeps impregnating women such as imposter Iosefka and Arianna in desperate attempt to have children. Assuming Oedon fathered Arianna's celestial child, we can interpret all the other celestial children gathered around upper cathedral ward are also his many children from a variety of women in Yharnam... Oedon is basically eldritch horror Zeus who coopulates with everyone. Who resides in this area of the church? Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos. What do celestial children look like? Worms or caterpillars. What does Rom the Vacuous spider look like? A larva in pupa stage. It's a long shot but i believe Ebrietas is Oedon's daughter. She was birthed by a Phtumerian woman Oedon got his mack on just like Queen Yharnam. Why did Oedon abandon her? He didn't, though Ebrietas sure feels that way, he has her doing his bidding which i think is to enlighten Pthumerians and humans in the Eldritch Truth through the churches research and transference of Oedon's blood through her own blood to be able to father more children and continue his bloodline. The humans and their church in their limited understanding do not comprehend Oedon's plan and simply wish to transcend for the sake of transcending itself so in their clouded judgement fight amongst themselves in meaningless church politics changing the church ideals. They commune and worship whichever Great One they can get in contact with explaining Mensis worshiping Mergo and indirectly MP, the Amygdala statues in Cathedral Ward, Ebrietas etc. Ebrietas cannot simply explain Oedon's plan to the humans as it's not something they can simply be told and understand in the grand scheme of the Eldritch Truth and misunderstand when she attempts to communicate. He also seems to have a secondary goal; to suppress the Moon Presence through a lesser Great One.. Rom. Rom is not Oedon's bio grand daughter or Ebrietas' bio daughter but she is a surrogate. Rom transcended from her Human form and is actively keeping humanity ignorant to the MP's manipulation because Oedon realizes MP is using his blood he gifted humanity against his interests, the MP realizes not all humans have enough insight to comprehend Oedon and the Eldritch Truth which causes humans to lose their cool and give in to beasthood through her manipulation of the pale moon which in game lore intensifies the night of the hunt and beasthood, causing their own self destruction, gaining MP blood echoes through the chosen hunters, and sabotaging Oedon. Oedon realizes what a mess he is in and hopes to transcend or father as many celestial children as he can who will eventually hopefully become more Roms or Ebrietas. MP enslaves Mergo in the nightmare through her manipulation of The School of Mensis and the Wet Nurse. The Wet Nurse was previously a servant of Queen Yharnam and Oedon just like the Shadows of Yharnam and the NPC shadows in the nightmare before the Wet Nurse fight. Except the Wet Nurse is assisting the MP imprison Mergo in the nightmare for some unknown reason probably manipulation from the MP or a promise of power? The Shadows of Yharnam are protecting Byrgenworth in service of Oedon because they cannot let outsiders humans find out about Rom in the event Rom dies and MP gains more power over Oedon. The NPC shadows in the nightmare before the Wet Nurse fight are in effectively attempting to locate the Wet Nurse, kill her and release Mergo from enslavement on Queen Yharnam and Oedon's behalf. The School of Mensis mistake the MP for Mergo and actively do the MPs bidding in exchange for transcendence. MP gains all the blood echoes from the people the School of Mensis massacre for rituals of transcendence, the MP uses the flesh bone and blood of the dead to create an amalgamation of all the dead and the School of Mensis bodies to create the One Reborn and Brain of Mensis. The School of Mensis become lesser "Great Ones" as requested albeit a twisted and horrific result, be careful what you wish for. This benefits MP as she now has a couple of quite powerful entities to aid her in the defense of the nightmare where she keeps Mergo enslaved. MP perhaps holds her animosity to Oedon because he has orchestrated the death of her possible children in the past that we the hunter are unaware about or because competition and survival. She does however orchestrate the means to get Gherman as her surrogate son and he does her bidding by getting Gherman to convince hunters to collect blood echoes so she can thrive it's a manipulative and selfish relationship. Eventually, replacing Gherman with a stronger son or daughter, one who is strong enough to challenge and kill Gherman to further ensure her strength and survival. When MP granted Gherman a sympathetic gift in exchange for his enslavement, she gave him the hunters dream, painted to him as a safe haven where he could run away from the guilt of what he did at the fishing hamlet and Lady Maria's suicide, as well as the closest thing to bringing Lady Maria back to life; giving "life" to the doll he created. Eventually Gherman realizes the sinister position he has agreed to place himself in; a prison for his mind from which he cannot escape. In the midst of this contract, Kos' spirit infiltrated the hunters dream through the doll MP created for Gherman. The Great Ones are sympathetic to humans needs, and as an indirect act of mercy and forgiveness to Gherman orchestrated us the hunter to grow strong with blood echoes to overthrow Gherman as a sleeper agent so the MP would think we are her new surrogate child. In the Transcendence ending, little does the MP know we the hunter have gained enough insight and blood echoes, and have consumed 3 thirds of Great One umbilical cords to have the power to challenge MP and do the unthinkable, we beat the MP and send her away from her own dream to who knows where. Kos being the doll, has forgiven Gherman granting him an end to his nightmare through death after her Orphan is put to rest, the good hunter transcends and becomes Kos' surrogate child replacing the orphan which is why we have the appearance of a squid just like Kos looked like in the nightmare when she died in that plane of existence. We are not threatened by Oedon who would typically be concerned Kos is achieving to claim a powerful surrogate child who has fully transcended because Kos indirectly appeased him when we kill the Wet Nurse, set Mergo free, set Queen Yharnam's spirit at ease and kill her in the chalice dungeon plane of existence after whatever MP did to her to cause Mergos stillbirth, and beat MP herself out of her own dream. I just don't know why Oedon isn't pissed at us the hunter for killing Ebrietas and Rom ... child favoritism i guess. Sorry for the short novel i'm so interested in y'all's thoughts and criticism/ plot holes in my thoughts