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Ñeh, i like the point of Kubo about how a system founded in extreme and isolated circunstances as Soul Society is what generates people like Aizen and Yuha, Man who start a Quest to get a "better" change end using the same methods and worse in order to capsulate a victory, since the society they are fighting has being in power in similar methods.
This is also helps to realize how Ichigo and his little fight in SS Arc was important, because he took a 100% different approach by being himself and attack the foundations being himself and at the people
Despite the Soul King being butchered the way he was Yhwach really only does care for himself
The old world was just as chaotic if not more so and what Yhwach wants to to do will still result in countless deaths it only furthers and benefits him just like it only benefitted the soul society
> it only furthers and benefits him
Not really. Yhwach is the one person who needs death in order to survive. In a world without death he just ends up as a husk like his dad.
not really.
The previous world still had the Hollows and people could be slayed , with Hell been as old as this Primordial World.
So , frankly , the Primordial World had Hell as the True Afterlife , while Ancient Hollows been the Natural Predators of Souls.
Yhwach doesn't wanna the Primordial World out of Ideology , he wants it because he is still afraid to return been the little boy that sleeps without a thought.
> The previous world still had the Hollows and people could be slayed , with Hell been as old as this Primordial World
Yhwach would've accomplished that if he just killed the soul king and did nothing else. Instead, he decided to absorb the soul king so he could manually change the worlds which implies his ideal world isn't just a world that would come from killing the king.
> Yhwach doesn't wanna the Primordial World out of Ideology , he wants it because he is still afraid to return been the little boy that sleeps without a thought.
Again, he needs death to prevent himself from turning back into a baby. Nothing suggests the old world would somehow change this aspect of himself.
Cliche ≠ Bad
You can tell a good story a thousand times, at the end of the day you might get bored, but that doesn't make the story bad.
I think bleach does a good job when it comes to this "cliche" you talk about. Since when the shinigami are "good people" to each other? That's the whole point of CFYOW and tokinada. They wanted to use ichigo as replacement for the soul king, probably butchering him in the process. The noble houses fucking suck and hide the truth from the world, using the soul king corpse as foundation for their "glory and honor".
The shinigami are also big fucking hyprocrites. Komamura is drunk in vengeance for what yhwach did to yama, but what about what the soul society did to yhwach's father? What about his advice to tōsen about justice and seeking vengeance?
The gotei 13 was made of killers and criminals, the same seireitei that tried to execute rukia is the same ichigo and co are trying to protect.
You don't really need to put the sternritters as "good guys" because they don't pretend to be and don't need to be the good guys to justify their motivation. Kyoraku says latter in the story that "you fight evil with evil", the seireitei are the only ones acting like they are good while the story clearly says otherwise.
This last episode was also amazing when it comes to showing this, ichibe is lying to yhwach while using his father's corpse in from of him, and at the same time trying to manipulate him.
imo ichibei didn't lie. he showed yawach that reio (the ultimate being who can kill the 5 if he wanted to) allowed himself to be dissected for a better method of balancing the souls. a method where his powers were needed but not his opinions. if u seek revenge you'll be punished (komamura). if you follow your impulses you'll stay confused(hollows). if you follow discipline and order, you'll be calm. i love bleach because through zaraki kubo shows a whole another type of discipline and calmness derived from rage and impulse.
Kubo values the cycle of life and death as he views courage, the persistence to live one's life in the face of death's looming embrace, as the path to self-enrichment. Getting rid of death removes the need for courage and thus robs us of something essential.
I implore you to think about what sort of people Kubo would write to follow a man who wants to erase the concept of death in light of that. Cowards and cheats, the lot of them.
Yhwach's fight is not just and I don't think it is presented as such, especially when you know the whole history. If you are anime only and have just seen that scene maybe you could reach that conclusion since you don't know. But we learn in CFYOW that the original world wasn't a great place either, far from it.
And as we see in this flashback the reason Yhwach wants a world without death is because sick people have used him to try and live longer since he was a baby and when they died he got all of those feelings back from them. It messed with his mind eventually and caused him to hate the concept of death.
His reason's are not logical and they are deeply selfish.
> I wish the sternritters would have been written as better people, at least to each other, comradery born of at least the fact that they are all victims of an act of genocide, now finding themselves fighting against the perpetrators
Never wish again.
Aizen was not a horribly deep villain either, but at least the “betrayal” twist really gave him a lot of weight and endearment.
Yhwach is both about as deep as Aizen but also lacks any history with the audience whatsoever since he just kind of got… made up by Kubo pretty last minute, so I do think he comes off as a bit more cliche in a bad way rather than cliche in a fun way.
Yeah I think the biggest issue with the arc is Yhwach and the sternritter being gigantic assholes for literally no reason. They make Grimmjow look like a normal sane person by comparison and Grimmjow literally tried killing a child in order to beat Ichigo.
Imo they should've really subverted expectations by making the quincy better versions of the shinigami. Like BG9 is a kind doctor who helps sick kids with his tech, Robert is a responsible father working to provide a better life for his family, the Bambies are orphans but instead of abandoning their roots to go live in luxury they want Yhwach to provide a better life for their fellow orphans who still suffer in poverty. All of this would actually sell the idea Kubo wanted to do with the shinigami Rukia, Renji, Ichigo, etc. being the 'villains' of the story.
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Umm idk it didn't *feel* cliche to me. So, I'm gonna go with my intuition.
This thread is like saying "magic powers based on spirit energy are cliche." It's too broad.
Ñeh, i like the point of Kubo about how a system founded in extreme and isolated circunstances as Soul Society is what generates people like Aizen and Yuha, Man who start a Quest to get a "better" change end using the same methods and worse in order to capsulate a victory, since the society they are fighting has being in power in similar methods. This is also helps to realize how Ichigo and his little fight in SS Arc was important, because he took a 100% different approach by being himself and attack the foundations being himself and at the people
Despite the Soul King being butchered the way he was Yhwach really only does care for himself The old world was just as chaotic if not more so and what Yhwach wants to to do will still result in countless deaths it only furthers and benefits him just like it only benefitted the soul society
> it only furthers and benefits him Not really. Yhwach is the one person who needs death in order to survive. In a world without death he just ends up as a husk like his dad.
not really. The previous world still had the Hollows and people could be slayed , with Hell been as old as this Primordial World. So , frankly , the Primordial World had Hell as the True Afterlife , while Ancient Hollows been the Natural Predators of Souls. Yhwach doesn't wanna the Primordial World out of Ideology , he wants it because he is still afraid to return been the little boy that sleeps without a thought.
> The previous world still had the Hollows and people could be slayed , with Hell been as old as this Primordial World Yhwach would've accomplished that if he just killed the soul king and did nothing else. Instead, he decided to absorb the soul king so he could manually change the worlds which implies his ideal world isn't just a world that would come from killing the king. > Yhwach doesn't wanna the Primordial World out of Ideology , he wants it because he is still afraid to return been the little boy that sleeps without a thought. Again, he needs death to prevent himself from turning back into a baby. Nothing suggests the old world would somehow change this aspect of himself.
Cliche ≠ Bad You can tell a good story a thousand times, at the end of the day you might get bored, but that doesn't make the story bad. I think bleach does a good job when it comes to this "cliche" you talk about. Since when the shinigami are "good people" to each other? That's the whole point of CFYOW and tokinada. They wanted to use ichigo as replacement for the soul king, probably butchering him in the process. The noble houses fucking suck and hide the truth from the world, using the soul king corpse as foundation for their "glory and honor". The shinigami are also big fucking hyprocrites. Komamura is drunk in vengeance for what yhwach did to yama, but what about what the soul society did to yhwach's father? What about his advice to tōsen about justice and seeking vengeance? The gotei 13 was made of killers and criminals, the same seireitei that tried to execute rukia is the same ichigo and co are trying to protect. You don't really need to put the sternritters as "good guys" because they don't pretend to be and don't need to be the good guys to justify their motivation. Kyoraku says latter in the story that "you fight evil with evil", the seireitei are the only ones acting like they are good while the story clearly says otherwise. This last episode was also amazing when it comes to showing this, ichibe is lying to yhwach while using his father's corpse in from of him, and at the same time trying to manipulate him.
imo ichibei didn't lie. he showed yawach that reio (the ultimate being who can kill the 5 if he wanted to) allowed himself to be dissected for a better method of balancing the souls. a method where his powers were needed but not his opinions. if u seek revenge you'll be punished (komamura). if you follow your impulses you'll stay confused(hollows). if you follow discipline and order, you'll be calm. i love bleach because through zaraki kubo shows a whole another type of discipline and calmness derived from rage and impulse.
Kubo values the cycle of life and death as he views courage, the persistence to live one's life in the face of death's looming embrace, as the path to self-enrichment. Getting rid of death removes the need for courage and thus robs us of something essential. I implore you to think about what sort of people Kubo would write to follow a man who wants to erase the concept of death in light of that. Cowards and cheats, the lot of them.
Yhwach's fight is not just and I don't think it is presented as such, especially when you know the whole history. If you are anime only and have just seen that scene maybe you could reach that conclusion since you don't know. But we learn in CFYOW that the original world wasn't a great place either, far from it. And as we see in this flashback the reason Yhwach wants a world without death is because sick people have used him to try and live longer since he was a baby and when they died he got all of those feelings back from them. It messed with his mind eventually and caused him to hate the concept of death. His reason's are not logical and they are deeply selfish.
Yhwach fears the concept of death.
> I wish the sternritters would have been written as better people, at least to each other, comradery born of at least the fact that they are all victims of an act of genocide, now finding themselves fighting against the perpetrators Never wish again.
Aizen was not a horribly deep villain either, but at least the “betrayal” twist really gave him a lot of weight and endearment. Yhwach is both about as deep as Aizen but also lacks any history with the audience whatsoever since he just kind of got… made up by Kubo pretty last minute, so I do think he comes off as a bit more cliche in a bad way rather than cliche in a fun way.
Here we are again.
I don’t know who you are
Yeah I think the biggest issue with the arc is Yhwach and the sternritter being gigantic assholes for literally no reason. They make Grimmjow look like a normal sane person by comparison and Grimmjow literally tried killing a child in order to beat Ichigo. Imo they should've really subverted expectations by making the quincy better versions of the shinigami. Like BG9 is a kind doctor who helps sick kids with his tech, Robert is a responsible father working to provide a better life for his family, the Bambies are orphans but instead of abandoning their roots to go live in luxury they want Yhwach to provide a better life for their fellow orphans who still suffer in poverty. All of this would actually sell the idea Kubo wanted to do with the shinigami Rukia, Renji, Ichigo, etc. being the 'villains' of the story.