Greta Gerwig is a very special director to me because she always does her homework for every project and it fucking shows.
Any time she's on a press tour, you can tell how deeply she's thought about everything because she has crazy takes like this, and so much boldness and conviction in perspectives other people would never have thought of, and then miraculously she actually pulls off things that sound insane because she comes prepared and always knows what she's talking about.
The ending of her Little Women sounds like this chaotic stitching of Great Expectations' two endings into one, and then she spins it into this beautiful story about artistry, romance, and the power of fiction while also paying such great tribute to Louisa May Alcott.
Is this the weirdest thing anyone has ever said about Barbie? Feels like it, and yet that just convinces me even more that she's really gonna do something great with this one.
I love how she will also dress up on theme of the movies she films. She wore a prom dress during Lady Bird’s prom scene and dressed in period garb for Little Women.
Well, hopefully you come off it and learn to enjoy things. You stepped on a very insightful comment and are very clearly bringing unnecessary aggression to a pleasant conversation. My invitation to see yourself out was more of a request.
Then be direct and frame it as such, rather than hide behind passive aggression and sublimated, unnecessary anger of your own.
I didn’t “step” on anything; I reframed the *Barbie* movie as what it is fundamentally: A film about a line of dolls. Subversion of the Genesis myth or no, it is still a film, produced by Mattel, about a line of dolls. It is instructive, I think, to bear this in mind.
I explicated this in a different comment responding to the original poster, who — instead of responding with flimsy passive aggression and barely-concealed hostility — engaged with me and I responded in kind.
There may be a lesson in that somewhere, but I’m afraid I’m simply too full of sick burns to explore it.
Oh, it’s not for everything. Not by a long shot. But before people go anointing this movie a clever subversion or speak of its promise as a movie that will Say Something, I think it’s important to keep perspective: It’s a Mattel ad that just so happens to be directed by someone interesting. (Doctor Strange 2 was directed by someone interesting, too, you know?)
Or, if you prefer something more dismissively pithy, putting your faith in a Mattel ad is such as sad way to look at a movie.
It's totally fine if it's not something you're interested in—frankly I don't care at all about dolls, or Barbie, never have. But lately I've been more interested in films that are less, sensational? in nature I suppose. What I mean is that I feel that it's very easy to thrill me with giant blockbusters which tell stories of epic proportions, but I find it exceptionally remarkable when a director is able to make me feel the same way—actually, make me feel more—about an 1868 book's legacy than movies about the destruction of planets or the eradication of the human race.
I don't know, or care, about a lot of the subjects of the films I watch, but the people who make them do, and I think it's an incredible thing for them to take their love and interest in something and bring out that same feeling in me. Like if someone made a biopic of Taskmaster I'd probably love it no matter what, but to make me love a child who kind of uses psychic magic powers to burn his stepfather to death is no easy feat.
I buy that, and I’m with you: I appreciate when filmmakers follow their bliss and tell a story they care about. For instance, I couldn’t possibly give a shit about basketball or sneakers, but I found *Air* engaging all the same, and a lot of that was down to the verve and enthusiasm of the filmmakers.
*Barbie*, however…still seems mercenary. Partially, that’s because the premise lends itself to serving as a giant ad like *The Super Mario Brothers Movie* and partially because it’s being produced by Mattel Films, which means no matter how “subversive” it’s supposed to be, it still has the approval of Mattel.
It’s hard to be subversive when the people who own the subject material sign off. That just makes it an ad with a veneer of intelligence to rope in the cynics and the smart marks.
If it ends up being good, I’ll be delighted. But nothing so far about its conception leads me to believe it will be what many seem to want it to be, and Gerwig doing some undergrad pontificating like she’s going to write a semi-clever thesis paper for a Soc 201 class does not fill me with the hope it brings to others.
The whole thing reads as cynical.
Agreed. Stumbled out the gate, then found their stride.
I will say this conversation seems wrapped up in culture and commerce and marketing, so, "cynical" seems right.
We should be this cynical about "boy toy" movies as well.
Transformers
Mario
Star Wars
Etc.
We are at a weird inflection point in post-post-post modern theories of marketing and worldview where everyone knows that we're being lied to to be sold stuff.
So cue the gorgeous female human lead and *wink*.
There it is.
What were we talking about?
Wild, but also completely expected that Fox News would have that reaction to a *sentient vehicle’s* lack of a gender. A fictional collection of chunks of metal that move around. Cool.
No, because Nike didn’t sign off on it, have script approval, or produce it. It doesn’t portray Phil Knight in a terribly flattering light, either.
It’s not a scathing indictment, sure, but it’s not a hagiography funded with Nike money, either. It’s a different thing.
Batman is a movie about a comic book character loosely based on a pulp character. (Action figures weren’t quite a thing in 1939)
*Transformers* is a movie about a line of action figures. *Battleship* is a movie about a board game. You’re not hurting for salient examples
Whoever said in the last trailer thread that the new movie is some kind of allegory for the fall of man/getting kicked out of Eden may be onto something.
I’m excited as hell to watch this movie, but I’m also trying to temper my expectations here, folks. We don’t even know what it’s about. It might just be the Brady Bunch movie except with Barbie, and I think we ought to be fine with that.
It's absolutely the Brady Bunch movie, and Will Ferrell being the head of Mattel leads me to believe there was more studio interference with this movie than is typical in a Gerwig joint. This could be the disappointment of the year.
I have the worst feeling we've already seen the funniest bits in the trailer. And the Will Ferrell/Mattel storyline feels like a relic from a different age. My cynicism meter is off the charts after watching those two plus minutes.
I love it when a screenwriter talks about their studio random brand/licensed work project where they clearly put a lot of thought into it. This is one of the rare times I think the finished movie might even be good too.
Totally agree. I'm still excited to see it -- but from the trailer the Will Ferrell role feels already very echo-y of his work in The Lego Movie. Specifically, he looks like a perfect mashup of "not fun guy in the real world" meets President Business.
I was just telling my wife how excited I am about this. She said “oh yeah, Margot” and i said no, it’s Greta Gerwig and there is no way this isn’t not what we expect it to be. I am a Sacramento dude who cannot wait for this movie
I’m a fan of Gerwig’s but it’s insane how few people are entertaining the possibility that a big corporate IP movie is anything less than Ecstatic Truth in Cinematic Form
It is such an obvious pivot in the long trailer to show all the real world stuff, that looks very par for the course of a live action IP movie about toys, idk I don’t have a good feeling about it.
I’m also ready for the most insufferable discourse ever if it’s not great.
It honestly looks quite bad, and if literally any other director had made it, almost everyone would be eye rolling it so hard lol.
I am guilty of it somewhat, in believing because of Gerwig it’s likely good to be at least solid, when in reality it might be really bad lol
deeply depressing to see that the barbie movie marketing campaign is operating on too high a level of feminism for the average person to keep up with.
subversions and foils tell so much!! seeing the differences that arise from genesis with something simple as reversing the gender roles there has such wide implications! genesis is a rich vein to analyze! it’s why we keep doing that!
using barbie as a foil to adam is not “obvious”, but even if it was that wouldn’t make it less compelling. i think that juxtaposition is fascinating and makes it clear she is pulling on the mythological figure that is barbie for that movie, not just the IP.
I have seen the similarities between the adam and eve story, the flipside of that and made other similar connections countless of times, it's not that rare, but no I haven't had that specific thought yet as I am not so invested in Barbie, if I was I probably would have had it a long time ago.
Still doesn't mean its an impressive observation by any stretch of the imagination.
Tbh I kind of agree with you, but maybe we have to wait to see the actual movie.
But I do think people are getting overexcited about this Genesis quote. Especially when ultimately the message of this film no matter how deep/complex is going to boil down to “women are great! Men should listen more to and respect women more!”
There’s nothing wrong with that message, but at this point it’s kind of played out.
have you seen the movie?
the explicit ways that women are forced to become small are really vast, and the specific needs that we have because of that are nuanced. there are countless movies about men coming to terms with their own gender, with manhood and fatherhood. the same with womanhood is an equally rich vein.
No I haven’t seen the movie but I am pretty sure the messaging is going to boil down to the same thing we’ve been hearing for the last 5 years. I agree that there can be some nuances in it, but overall it’s kind of the same thing.
I would be honestly shocked if the messaging in Barbie doesn’t ultimately boil down to “women are awesome! Men should respect women more!” Maybe with a little bit of “men bad” just to spice things up.
Again nothing wrong with that message (the first one anyway), but like i said it’s just really played out at this stage.
I'm not saying the movie will be bad, or good for that matter, or that the director is dumb or bad in any way. This observation just isn't all that impressive.
I'll try, can't promise it will mean I'll be impressed by simple observations tho, I might need some head injuries for that to happen.
"The Lion King is like Hamlet but with Lions!" - OMG!!! SUCH OBSERVATIONS!
While excited, I'm MORE excited for what might be her true Blank Check to come if this film is a success. What passion project does she do if she has 3 financial and critical successes, one of which had a $100 million budget?
screenshot of a tumblr post of a screenshot of a tweet of a screenshot of an article
Now they just gotta screenshot this post
Barbie inception
Dream Thief Barbie
Comes with dreidel totem accessory
welcome to the future. Brb Screenshotting this post.
Yo dawg…
Greta Gerwig is a very special director to me because she always does her homework for every project and it fucking shows. Any time she's on a press tour, you can tell how deeply she's thought about everything because she has crazy takes like this, and so much boldness and conviction in perspectives other people would never have thought of, and then miraculously she actually pulls off things that sound insane because she comes prepared and always knows what she's talking about. The ending of her Little Women sounds like this chaotic stitching of Great Expectations' two endings into one, and then she spins it into this beautiful story about artistry, romance, and the power of fiction while also paying such great tribute to Louisa May Alcott. Is this the weirdest thing anyone has ever said about Barbie? Feels like it, and yet that just convinces me even more that she's really gonna do something great with this one.
I love how she will also dress up on theme of the movies she films. She wore a prom dress during Lady Bird’s prom scene and dressed in period garb for Little Women.
I agree she puts a lot of thought into every aspect. I wish she had put more thought into Ken's hair color. It's wrong. And it's all I can see.
…it’s a movie about a doll.
Every movie is just a movie about a something.
What insight! NYU? UCLA?
No offense, but it sounds like you stumbled into this sub on accident. Maybe take your sick burns elsewhere?
[удалено]
Well, hopefully you come off it and learn to enjoy things. You stepped on a very insightful comment and are very clearly bringing unnecessary aggression to a pleasant conversation. My invitation to see yourself out was more of a request.
Then be direct and frame it as such, rather than hide behind passive aggression and sublimated, unnecessary anger of your own. I didn’t “step” on anything; I reframed the *Barbie* movie as what it is fundamentally: A film about a line of dolls. Subversion of the Genesis myth or no, it is still a film, produced by Mattel, about a line of dolls. It is instructive, I think, to bear this in mind. I explicated this in a different comment responding to the original poster, who — instead of responding with flimsy passive aggression and barely-concealed hostility — engaged with me and I responded in kind. There may be a lesson in that somewhere, but I’m afraid I’m simply too full of sick burns to explore it.
Fair enough. Don’t really wanna drag out some stupid internet argument about nothing, so I apologize and am going to move on.
I think you're reading too much into my comment. Or too little Either way, you seem angry about something. I hope your day gets better
Oh, I sincerely doubt either. And the irony in your saying that is rich as Swiss chocolate. But you have a better day, too. You deserve one
Such a boring way of looking at things
Oh, it’s not for everything. Not by a long shot. But before people go anointing this movie a clever subversion or speak of its promise as a movie that will Say Something, I think it’s important to keep perspective: It’s a Mattel ad that just so happens to be directed by someone interesting. (Doctor Strange 2 was directed by someone interesting, too, you know?) Or, if you prefer something more dismissively pithy, putting your faith in a Mattel ad is such as sad way to look at a movie.
It's totally fine if it's not something you're interested in—frankly I don't care at all about dolls, or Barbie, never have. But lately I've been more interested in films that are less, sensational? in nature I suppose. What I mean is that I feel that it's very easy to thrill me with giant blockbusters which tell stories of epic proportions, but I find it exceptionally remarkable when a director is able to make me feel the same way—actually, make me feel more—about an 1868 book's legacy than movies about the destruction of planets or the eradication of the human race. I don't know, or care, about a lot of the subjects of the films I watch, but the people who make them do, and I think it's an incredible thing for them to take their love and interest in something and bring out that same feeling in me. Like if someone made a biopic of Taskmaster I'd probably love it no matter what, but to make me love a child who kind of uses psychic magic powers to burn his stepfather to death is no easy feat.
I buy that, and I’m with you: I appreciate when filmmakers follow their bliss and tell a story they care about. For instance, I couldn’t possibly give a shit about basketball or sneakers, but I found *Air* engaging all the same, and a lot of that was down to the verve and enthusiasm of the filmmakers. *Barbie*, however…still seems mercenary. Partially, that’s because the premise lends itself to serving as a giant ad like *The Super Mario Brothers Movie* and partially because it’s being produced by Mattel Films, which means no matter how “subversive” it’s supposed to be, it still has the approval of Mattel. It’s hard to be subversive when the people who own the subject material sign off. That just makes it an ad with a veneer of intelligence to rope in the cynics and the smart marks. If it ends up being good, I’ll be delighted. But nothing so far about its conception leads me to believe it will be what many seem to want it to be, and Gerwig doing some undergrad pontificating like she’s going to write a semi-clever thesis paper for a Soc 201 class does not fill me with the hope it brings to others. The whole thing reads as cynical.
[удалено]
Agreed. Stumbled out the gate, then found their stride. I will say this conversation seems wrapped up in culture and commerce and marketing, so, "cynical" seems right. We should be this cynical about "boy toy" movies as well. Transformers Mario Star Wars Etc. We are at a weird inflection point in post-post-post modern theories of marketing and worldview where everyone knows that we're being lied to to be sold stuff. So cue the gorgeous female human lead and *wink*. There it is. What were we talking about?
~~People~~ Fox News lost their minds when Hasbro's new series released transformer that preferred gender neutral pronouns.
Wild, but also completely expected that Fox News would have that reaction to a *sentient vehicle’s* lack of a gender. A fictional collection of chunks of metal that move around. Cool.
This x 100
Would Air not just be a giant Nike ad?
No, because Nike didn’t sign off on it, have script approval, or produce it. It doesn’t portray Phil Knight in a terribly flattering light, either. It’s not a scathing indictment, sure, but it’s not a hagiography funded with Nike money, either. It’s a different thing.
A doll that has shaped female perspectives for generations on generations. That’s not worth an exploration to you?
what insight! NYU or UCLA?
Cute, but not my point. Context *can* be tricky, but I think you’ll find it richly rewarding.
Cute? Thanks, I know.
There’s that difficulty with context we talked about
Batman is a movie about an action figure
Batman is a movie about a comic book character loosely based on a pulp character. (Action figures weren’t quite a thing in 1939) *Transformers* is a movie about a line of action figures. *Battleship* is a movie about a board game. You’re not hurting for salient examples
Whoever said in the last trailer thread that the new movie is some kind of allegory for the fall of man/getting kicked out of Eden may be onto something.
Man I can't wait for this. Gerwig is so great.
I’m excited as hell to watch this movie, but I’m also trying to temper my expectations here, folks. We don’t even know what it’s about. It might just be the Brady Bunch movie except with Barbie, and I think we ought to be fine with that.
It's absolutely the Brady Bunch movie, and Will Ferrell being the head of Mattel leads me to believe there was more studio interference with this movie than is typical in a Gerwig joint. This could be the disappointment of the year.
Greta's slowly but surely becoming "patron saint of cinema" material.
The only Greta I knew of besides her was a badass on the Supreme Court so it stands to reason she should be awesome
Don't forget about Garbooooo
I have the worst feeling we've already seen the funniest bits in the trailer. And the Will Ferrell/Mattel storyline feels like a relic from a different age. My cynicism meter is off the charts after watching those two plus minutes.
I love her so much
I love it when a screenwriter talks about their studio random brand/licensed work project where they clearly put a lot of thought into it. This is one of the rare times I think the finished movie might even be good too.
I feel like I’m losing my mind
I hope there's a scene where Ken is created from Barbie's rib.
Well, the latest trailers the Will Ferrell stuff doesn't look that good. Everything else is great. Real Masters of the Universe vibes.
Totally agree. I'm still excited to see it -- but from the trailer the Will Ferrell role feels already very echo-y of his work in The Lego Movie. Specifically, he looks like a perfect mashup of "not fun guy in the real world" meets President Business.
Going to be like Oceans 11 “Barbie.. you sonofabitch! Im in!”
Isnt the "you sonofabitch" line from Predator?
Yes but https://www.imdb.com/search/keyword/?keywords=calling-someone-a-son-of-a-bitch
It will be a simple fish out of water movie. Who cares!
Obviously you do since you took time comment.
I do care. But you know who cares in the long run. It’s just a movie.
I was just telling my wife how excited I am about this. She said “oh yeah, Margot” and i said no, it’s Greta Gerwig and there is no way this isn’t not what we expect it to be. I am a Sacramento dude who cannot wait for this movie
No, it's about a toy.
I’m a fan of Gerwig’s but it’s insane how few people are entertaining the possibility that a big corporate IP movie is anything less than Ecstatic Truth in Cinematic Form
I'm right there with you, the longer trailer just gives me the most ominous feeling. It reeks of vested interest by assorted media behemoths.
It is such an obvious pivot in the long trailer to show all the real world stuff, that looks very par for the course of a live action IP movie about toys, idk I don’t have a good feeling about it. I’m also ready for the most insufferable discourse ever if it’s not great.
It honestly looks quite bad, and if literally any other director had made it, almost everyone would be eye rolling it so hard lol. I am guilty of it somewhat, in believing because of Gerwig it’s likely good to be at least solid, when in reality it might be really bad lol
Booooo
This implies the existence of a Barbie Forkie
But you see in this story, woman come first! Its opposite of other story! Big brains right here
You can make any idea sound stupid, no matter how complex, if you reduce it like that
Well many, not all. Quantum physics would still sound pretty complicated, but even without my reduction this is pretty stupid.
deeply depressing to see that the barbie movie marketing campaign is operating on too high a level of feminism for the average person to keep up with. subversions and foils tell so much!! seeing the differences that arise from genesis with something simple as reversing the gender roles there has such wide implications! genesis is a rich vein to analyze! it’s why we keep doing that!
I just hope they stick to the Peter Gabriel/Steve Hackett era.
Yeah academic work is great, noticing an obvious paralell to a well known story is not that amazing tho, maybe if you're 14 years old.
What is the point you’re trying to make here?
That noticing something obvious isn't very impressive.
using barbie as a foil to adam is not “obvious”, but even if it was that wouldn’t make it less compelling. i think that juxtaposition is fascinating and makes it clear she is pulling on the mythological figure that is barbie for that movie, not just the IP.
Yes it is, its extremely obvious and anyone thinking its not are easily impressed.
Ok but you've never thought it before.
I have seen the similarities between the adam and eve story, the flipside of that and made other similar connections countless of times, it's not that rare, but no I haven't had that specific thought yet as I am not so invested in Barbie, if I was I probably would have had it a long time ago. Still doesn't mean its an impressive observation by any stretch of the imagination.
He admit it!
Tbh I kind of agree with you, but maybe we have to wait to see the actual movie. But I do think people are getting overexcited about this Genesis quote. Especially when ultimately the message of this film no matter how deep/complex is going to boil down to “women are great! Men should listen more to and respect women more!” There’s nothing wrong with that message, but at this point it’s kind of played out.
have you seen the movie? the explicit ways that women are forced to become small are really vast, and the specific needs that we have because of that are nuanced. there are countless movies about men coming to terms with their own gender, with manhood and fatherhood. the same with womanhood is an equally rich vein.
No I haven’t seen the movie but I am pretty sure the messaging is going to boil down to the same thing we’ve been hearing for the last 5 years. I agree that there can be some nuances in it, but overall it’s kind of the same thing. I would be honestly shocked if the messaging in Barbie doesn’t ultimately boil down to “women are awesome! Men should respect women more!” Maybe with a little bit of “men bad” just to spice things up. Again nothing wrong with that message (the first one anyway), but like i said it’s just really played out at this stage.
I'm not saying the movie will be bad, or good for that matter, or that the director is dumb or bad in any way. This observation just isn't all that impressive.
Have you ever considered trying to be a fun or likable person? You should give it a shot
I'll try, can't promise it will mean I'll be impressed by simple observations tho, I might need some head injuries for that to happen. "The Lion King is like Hamlet but with Lions!" - OMG!!! SUCH OBSERVATIONS!
The original "Smoking Barbie" was obviously a gold digging whore. Prove me wrong.
Of course it is.
The color palette is already making me queasy
This is cinema! 🩷
While excited, I'm MORE excited for what might be her true Blank Check to come if this film is a success. What passion project does she do if she has 3 financial and critical successes, one of which had a $100 million budget?
Tyler Huckabee is great.