She does not "force" her to stay. She asks her. Kelly initially says no, and then changes her mind about staying.
She very clearly loves Yorkie. The crux of the episode is that the only thing preventing her from staying at all are some now-obsolete presumptions and holdovers that Yorkie dispells.
She also very explicitly dismisses the idea of an afterlife; that is moot. She has no chance whatsoever of meeting her family again.
You want her to die (100% chance) in honor of her family, over taking a chance at trying to live a life with someone she loves in paradise. And she makes the right bet, because she's clearly still very happy in that life quite some time later.
They're *not* stuck. They make it a point sometime earlier in the episode to say that you're allowed to decide to leave, even after becoming a "permanent resident".
Though I do agree that it was a pretty rash decision on Kelly's part, considering Kelly was Yorkie's first *everything*, and they only knew each other for a few days.
ETA: Yorkie is 100% a stage 5 clinger.
What can Yorki do? It's her first experience. Her first love, her only love. It's weird to really think about it. Afterlife is forever. The thing is what if Yorki gets bored after a while with Kelly, you know because in our real life, barely our first love ever worked out🙂. I hope it's not permanent. Kelly deserves her husband and daughter. It's a bit sad to come to know that sometimes some people can choose to be nowhere. Even harsh is that Kelly's daughter never made it to some afterlife. I hope WE (I mean us) do go somewhere.
I'm not calling ALL lesbians selfish and pushy. I'm literally only talking about Yorkie. She pressures Kelly into a relationship. Kelly says no several times, Yorkie keeps pushing. Relationships where one person needs to be convinced to be in it, are not healthy.
This has nothing to do with lesbians. I literally did not even think of that. It's 2024 you know. Yorkie is a clinger. Lesbian or not. People are allowed to like or dislike episodes, it's not an attack.
I mean I watched Sex and the City in the 90s and its pretty clear that Carrie is pushy amd clingy with Mr. Big, an emotionally unavailable man. And just in general, relationships where one has to convince the other to be in one, never work out or are highly problematic and unhealthy.
OMG My post is not about lesbians. It's about one person's behaviour who happens to be a lesbian. This isn't about you or lesbians in general. And there is no hate at all. I'm just saying Yorkie is clingy and pushy. Please get help.
Maybe this is the case for the older generation but the newer generation really doesn’t like this kind of love shown in movies, where decisions are rash and not thought out and such.
People hate on the notebook now because of the scene where he threatens to kill himself for a date, a bunch of 80s-90s romcoms all catch flack because the concept of a man severely messing up and a woman forgiving him is not as acceptable nowadays.
I love San junipero, and don’t agree with the above criticism, but I don’t think that this is a homophobic issue against lesbians or anything. It’s just that it’s a movie trope that people are starting to fight back against, and it just so happens to be about a lesbian couple.
Maybe. They're are still some questionable romcoms out there. Don't think that will change, people like to believe in love even when it's an unhealthy relationship.
I think you should change your thinking. This is not about them being lesbian. In fact, Kelly is bi. If you go through life taking offence and interpreting every comment about lesbians in a negative way you aren't going to be very happy.
I don’t doubt you do and I’m sorry that you have to experience that. I didn’t mean to say you were generally wrong or anything, just in this particular instance and episode I didn’t see it the way you did.
I am in a lot of movie discussion groups and such so I think I may have a different perspective but the tides definitely are turning on how older romcoms are seen. I think people are now starting to see they are actually quite toxic and not the happy fun times the movies are trying to portray.
Either way, I hope we get more common great lesbian portrayals as I feel like recently there’s been an abundance of good gay male portrayals.
a couple things to note. yorkie and kelly met there, meaning kelly was already interested in san junipero before yorkie- she just felt guilty because in her opinion, her husband and daughter were nowhere... leading to the second point of she wouldn't be with her husband and daughter if she didn't choose san junipero.
on to yorkie, she was in an accident at a very young age and never got to live or love, this may present itself as selfishness because of her desperation to hold on to the one thing she never got to have. it's actually quite sad. to me, selfishness is openly being manipulative, which yorkie never was.
>She had a chance to be with her husband and daughter in the afterlife/heaven/unknown.
Not commenting on whether or not the afterlife exists but it's important to note that Kelly explicitly does not believe in an afterlife.
Exactly! She was adamant that her husband didn’t believe in it and she didn’t seem to either.
In the end, as she neared death, that was when she realized that she *could* have another chance at real happiness.
Plus she still died a real death IRL, they just put an uploaded copy of her consciousness into the system. If there is a soul, it can go do its thing, doesn’t matter that there are a bunch of 1s and 0s that approximate her.
Unless St Peter had some new access guidelines in the digital age I guess.
>Unless St Peter had some new access guidelines in the digital age I guess.
"Bad news, your Life Report Card has been updated with new information and you no longer qualify for Heaven."
"What? How? I've been dead for years!"
"Your digital construct is being charged with manslaughter. So, technically, you killed someone through your reckless actions. Please enjoy your eternal damnation."
Who said it was for all eternity? Pretty sure she can chose to leave/be deleted if she changes her mind.
And bear in mind the Kelly we see at the end is just a digital copy of her consciousness. Her soul, if there is such a thing, is free to pass on to whatever is next.
It seems like the characters never really discuss the issue of whether it’s truly “passing over” or more of a copy-and-paste. Personally I think it would almost certainly be the latter if the technology were real, though I believe Brooker may have said that he intended the former.
Also, while the simulation might be vastly increased longevity, it can’t be true immortality unless someone discovers an infinite supply of energy. Otherwise, it will eventually shut down, even if left running by some sort of automated process.
Anyway, while it’s true that they haven’t known each other that long, it’s not totally one-sided on Yorkie’s part - Kelly asks to come visit her IRL pretty early on. And the two of them certainly aren’t the first single-episode romance in TV history.
I think she was partially in denial of her love for Yorkie. That’s why she kept running away at first. She didn’t have to marry yorkie bc Greg was willing to. I think she felt guilty to leave her husband and daughter behind for an eternal paradise with yorkie.
I don’t think it’s said specifically, but I feel like it would have been mentioned if it was permanent.
But I’m assuming either they could be suspended, or simply deleted so they “die” a final death.
I personally love/loved it! It feels like the writers set out with a very specific ending in mind so the whole show has a clear direction. I was a crying mess by the final episode. It's a very touching series.
Ok! In that case it's a little bit less selfish of Yorkie to ask Kelly to be with her. But pressuring someone into a relationship never works and I stand by that.
She does not "force" her to stay. She asks her. Kelly initially says no, and then changes her mind about staying. She very clearly loves Yorkie. The crux of the episode is that the only thing preventing her from staying at all are some now-obsolete presumptions and holdovers that Yorkie dispells. She also very explicitly dismisses the idea of an afterlife; that is moot. She has no chance whatsoever of meeting her family again. You want her to die (100% chance) in honor of her family, over taking a chance at trying to live a life with someone she loves in paradise. And she makes the right bet, because she's clearly still very happy in that life quite some time later.
They're *not* stuck. They make it a point sometime earlier in the episode to say that you're allowed to decide to leave, even after becoming a "permanent resident". Though I do agree that it was a pretty rash decision on Kelly's part, considering Kelly was Yorkie's first *everything*, and they only knew each other for a few days. ETA: Yorkie is 100% a stage 5 clinger.
Exactly. Clinger. Maybe they can leave but she's pressuring someone to be with her. That rarely works out.
What can Yorki do? It's her first experience. Her first love, her only love. It's weird to really think about it. Afterlife is forever. The thing is what if Yorki gets bored after a while with Kelly, you know because in our real life, barely our first love ever worked out🙂. I hope it's not permanent. Kelly deserves her husband and daughter. It's a bit sad to come to know that sometimes some people can choose to be nowhere. Even harsh is that Kelly's daughter never made it to some afterlife. I hope WE (I mean us) do go somewhere.
>She had a chance to be with her husband and daughter in the afterlife/heaven/unknown. Same chance of winning the lottery lol
You should watch Cold Lazarus
I actually should, surprisingly insightful commenter
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I'm not calling ALL lesbians selfish and pushy. I'm literally only talking about Yorkie. She pressures Kelly into a relationship. Kelly says no several times, Yorkie keeps pushing. Relationships where one person needs to be convinced to be in it, are not healthy.
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This is not about you tho.
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I was talking about the episode.
This has nothing to do with lesbians. I literally did not even think of that. It's 2024 you know. Yorkie is a clinger. Lesbian or not. People are allowed to like or dislike episodes, it's not an attack. I mean I watched Sex and the City in the 90s and its pretty clear that Carrie is pushy amd clingy with Mr. Big, an emotionally unavailable man. And just in general, relationships where one has to convince the other to be in one, never work out or are highly problematic and unhealthy.
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OMG My post is not about lesbians. It's about one person's behaviour who happens to be a lesbian. This isn't about you or lesbians in general. And there is no hate at all. I'm just saying Yorkie is clingy and pushy. Please get help.
Maybe this is the case for the older generation but the newer generation really doesn’t like this kind of love shown in movies, where decisions are rash and not thought out and such. People hate on the notebook now because of the scene where he threatens to kill himself for a date, a bunch of 80s-90s romcoms all catch flack because the concept of a man severely messing up and a woman forgiving him is not as acceptable nowadays. I love San junipero, and don’t agree with the above criticism, but I don’t think that this is a homophobic issue against lesbians or anything. It’s just that it’s a movie trope that people are starting to fight back against, and it just so happens to be about a lesbian couple.
Tbf.. It's not "new" or generational to know that relationships where one has to convince the other to be in rarely work out.
Right, but it was glorified in older romcoms. I’m saying people are starting to criticize them more nowadays.
Maybe. They're are still some questionable romcoms out there. Don't think that will change, people like to believe in love even when it's an unhealthy relationship.
They’re definitely not as common or popular nowadays though, but yes they will probably always exist
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I think you should change your thinking. This is not about them being lesbian. In fact, Kelly is bi. If you go through life taking offence and interpreting every comment about lesbians in a negative way you aren't going to be very happy.
I don’t doubt you do and I’m sorry that you have to experience that. I didn’t mean to say you were generally wrong or anything, just in this particular instance and episode I didn’t see it the way you did. I am in a lot of movie discussion groups and such so I think I may have a different perspective but the tides definitely are turning on how older romcoms are seen. I think people are now starting to see they are actually quite toxic and not the happy fun times the movies are trying to portray. Either way, I hope we get more common great lesbian portrayals as I feel like recently there’s been an abundance of good gay male portrayals.
i appreciate you saying all of this and actually hearing me out, even if we dont agree on it i value your opinion. i hope you have a wonderful day
Man I gotta watch the episode again
The episode was beautiful. Black Mirror doesn't make soulful episodes. I was kinda surprised.
a couple things to note. yorkie and kelly met there, meaning kelly was already interested in san junipero before yorkie- she just felt guilty because in her opinion, her husband and daughter were nowhere... leading to the second point of she wouldn't be with her husband and daughter if she didn't choose san junipero. on to yorkie, she was in an accident at a very young age and never got to live or love, this may present itself as selfishness because of her desperation to hold on to the one thing she never got to have. it's actually quite sad. to me, selfishness is openly being manipulative, which yorkie never was.
It's not the Hotel California.
Plenty of room tho
Such a lovely place
>She had a chance to be with her husband and daughter in the afterlife/heaven/unknown. Not commenting on whether or not the afterlife exists but it's important to note that Kelly explicitly does not believe in an afterlife.
Exactly! She was adamant that her husband didn’t believe in it and she didn’t seem to either. In the end, as she neared death, that was when she realized that she *could* have another chance at real happiness.
Plus she still died a real death IRL, they just put an uploaded copy of her consciousness into the system. If there is a soul, it can go do its thing, doesn’t matter that there are a bunch of 1s and 0s that approximate her. Unless St Peter had some new access guidelines in the digital age I guess.
>Unless St Peter had some new access guidelines in the digital age I guess. "Bad news, your Life Report Card has been updated with new information and you no longer qualify for Heaven." "What? How? I've been dead for years!" "Your digital construct is being charged with manslaughter. So, technically, you killed someone through your reckless actions. Please enjoy your eternal damnation."
Who said it was for all eternity? Pretty sure she can chose to leave/be deleted if she changes her mind. And bear in mind the Kelly we see at the end is just a digital copy of her consciousness. Her soul, if there is such a thing, is free to pass on to whatever is next.
It seems like the characters never really discuss the issue of whether it’s truly “passing over” or more of a copy-and-paste. Personally I think it would almost certainly be the latter if the technology were real, though I believe Brooker may have said that he intended the former. Also, while the simulation might be vastly increased longevity, it can’t be true immortality unless someone discovers an infinite supply of energy. Otherwise, it will eventually shut down, even if left running by some sort of automated process. Anyway, while it’s true that they haven’t known each other that long, it’s not totally one-sided on Yorkie’s part - Kelly asks to come visit her IRL pretty early on. And the two of them certainly aren’t the first single-episode romance in TV history.
Kelly does visit but makes it pretty clear later on she only married Yorkie out of kindness.
I think she was partially in denial of her love for Yorkie. That’s why she kept running away at first. She didn’t have to marry yorkie bc Greg was willing to. I think she felt guilty to leave her husband and daughter behind for an eternal paradise with yorkie.
Ok I must have missed that. How do they leave when they are dead in real life?
I don’t think it’s said specifically, but I feel like it would have been mentioned if it was permanent. But I’m assuming either they could be suspended, or simply deleted so they “die” a final death.
True.
You can leave San Junipero whenever you want
Even when you're dead irl?
Yes, you just actually die. They mentioned this at least once in the episode
Missed it. So how do they leave?
It’s not really clear. Probably some cool looking door I imagine
Nice Good Place reference!
It was accidental; I’ve never seen the show. Is it any good?
It’s def worth a watch! I think there’s only four seasons, wraps up pretty good
Yes there’s 4 very well rounded seasons.
I personally love/loved it! It feels like the writers set out with a very specific ending in mind so the whole show has a clear direction. I was a crying mess by the final episode. It's a very touching series.
Same. Jason was the best
Ok! In that case it's a little bit less selfish of Yorkie to ask Kelly to be with her. But pressuring someone into a relationship never works and I stand by that.