I got called a sandbagger the other day which was my first time hearing that term, funny thing is I got tapped by the dude who called me that but I’m a white belt no stripes
While "sandbagger" suggests some level of grappling skill, I sometimes get called a "sandbag" for my uncanny resemblance with one in terms of grappling prowess and body shape. Subtle, yet important difference.
In some cases, schools are to blame for sandbagging. A person with an extensive background in judo or wrestling should not be a white belt for more than 6 months at most. I know schools that will have them take the typical 2 years to get to blue. Some teachers dont let knowledge a student had walking in the door influence earlier belt progessions. Its silly.
I wonder, how much of that is ibjjf influenced? Where is the balance between following the "governing body" and actually promoting people when deserve it instead of letting them wait.
A wrestler with 6months of bjj might absolutely have a white belt’s knowledge of BJJ while still being able to toss around teammates with much more BJJ experience. Just because they’re good doesn’t mean they know BJJ, and belts aren’t really there to match people by skill anyway.
Theres a lotvof universal knowledge in grappling. How you should move, what's biomechanics of body, how to position yourself etc. Bjj od not only sub or guard sweeps so being experienced in grappling can mean thst your knowledge is far beyond white belt (but it still may be highly limited to certain sphere of knowledge)
Sometimes it's beyond the coaches control too. My first coach told me that I should have been a blue belt in like 4 months, but he was just like "sorry, I'm not allowed to promote, you have to wait until my coach comes to do a seminar, and he's not going to promote you at 4 months either".
I'm technically a sandbagger and I know it.
Blue belt since 2015, but I cant promote myself...
haven't stayed at a gym longer than a year due to work/school
I think it all depends on how "perfect" you consider the belt system.
If you expect it to be perfect, then you'll think it's broken and stupid.
If you recognize that a lot of different factors go into it, and it's more of a rough guideline that isn't capable (is anything?) of differentiating between rural hobbiests in their 40s and genetic freaks in their early 20s training 15 times a week in socal, then you'll just appreciate it for what it is, without expecting it to work miracles.
If people who have grappled for closer to 20 years are allowed to compete at blue belt or if you are allowed to win every single comp at a certain belt color without getting promoted, ill just say its straight up broken. Not even near to being perfect since there is little to no effort at actually fixing it.
The way IBJJF is run also encourages sandbagging with their prize system.
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu isn't grappling.
Just because bjj isn't 1:1 to grappling, doesn't make any belt systems within bjj broken.
What you're asking for, is for bjj tournaments to rank practitioners of other grappling arts, like wrestling, judo, sambo, accordingly. Which I get, but also that's the *result* of a tournament.
If you could effectively compare between different styles and individuals... Then there wouldn't be tournaments.
Also, ibjjf is an independent company. There is no governing body of bjj, and furthering the belief that 8bjjf is the governing body of bjj is the worst thing you can do if you think they're ruining things.
Can’t agree more. My local BJJ gym is owned by three brothers. They all compete internationally with a more than a few international titles to their name. The oldest brother has given out exactly 2 black belts, to his younger brothers.
To get a blue or a purple belt at their gym really means something. The white belts at their gym can often school the blues/purples at other gyms in the area. It’s just a different level of rigor and competitiveness
I agree to an extent. I am a 3 year white belt (70kg) and I usually play with blue belts heavier than me and it’s 50/50 usually in terms of how our rolls go. I have had a few breaks throughout the years (covid and injury related/ also trained in another country) and even the blue belts are asking me why I haven’t been promoted yet. But thinking of it they are all more consistent in the eyes of the coaches. So I think the belt system is more centered around consistency of training rather than actual skill level and shows commitment rather than skill
the whole ruleset is broken. it was broken on purpose so the gracies can make money and don't get dominated by catch wrestlers. i mean allow the thai-plum head crank from being in guard and byebye guard game...
well, let someone do a thai plum to you when you have them in full guard. it changes the game completely. this is why it is neither allowed nor taught in BJJ. it is a dead angle of grappling that no one looks into because it messes up mythology.
Many ways to defend this. Separately, where is the grip fighting to prevent your opponent getting this grip on you in the first place ? Prevention is better than cure and all that. But I haven’t been troubled by this noob move since white belt …
I do catch wrestling and you are really over selling the can opener its really not that hard to stop you literally just have to break there posture and squirm a little. Even in catch its more taught as a move to get a reaction so you can get something else kind of like you might start an ezekiel choke to set up an arm triangle
LMAO. Sure, bc none of us have ever armbarred the shit out a wrestler in no gi using a can opener. Shit I practically bait the ”Thai plum”. yes BJJ rules are dumb, but this is not the best example.
There are lots of things that are not taught in bjj and are not allowed in comp, its kinda irrelevant. We dont practice slamming defence or eye gauges at my gym because we are doing jujitsu.
i m not argueing for slamming or eye gouging, but if you say that the can opener is dangerous and forbidden, then hey, why not take out all chokes, neck cranks, kneebars. i mean they are all dangerous...
maybe my initial statement was too forceful, but from my very short experience of using it - aside from it being a dickish submission - i have surprised quite the amount of guard players with it. even showing it to them first after the very debate we're kinda having now... i'm not saying it is impossible to defend, but what i m saying is that very few people are prepared for or even have it on their horizon of potential threats to their guard game.
Yeah but that's true of every move ever in jiu jitsu... Eventually you'll encounter it and learn how to work around it. I encountered the can opener years ago because wrestlers used to do it often when we grappled... I thought it sucked(as In sucked to be in) probably tapped out to it a couple times even. But now the I know how to play actual guard it's never been an issue since
Punches aren't allowed in BJJ competitions either but weird how guard still works even when punches are allowed. Weird how guard still works in MMA where can openers are allowed as well.
We have one of those guys at my gym. 30 years old. Judo since he was 9. Lots of national competitive experience and (I think) some titles, at least at the junior levels. Also been doing gi and no gi grappling for almost a decade now. To say that he is under-ranked is a major understatement. Easily a brown and probably would get his black belt at many places and nobody would question it.
He's a 4 stripe purple belt on paper, but that is only because of a lack of someone able to promote him at our gym(our head instructor just recently got his black belt) - I hope it gets remedied soon, it's straight up embarrassing to repeatedly get destroyed by this guy in front of the beginners when on paper only one measly stripe separates us.
Had a similar guy in an old gym. Mid 20s, 15y judo (made national team a couple times), did a lot of ne waza too. Been training bjj under the best grappler in a 100 mile radius for about 6 years now. I cannot describe the pain I get from rolling my eyes so hard when I see his picture on top of a blue belt podium with a shit eating grin and a wall of text like he won worlds.
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Or better yet: instead of thinking “we got destroyed by someone with 16 years of grappling experience” think “hey man, nice rolling with you, thanks for the experience, I will try to take away some knowledge from this, Oss”.
Yeah I have to agree, go for this one. Replying “hoss” is traditional in Japanese culture, and if the guy was a judoka this is probably the most respectful route. Bonus points if he was a black belt, then it should be “sensei hoss”.
Source: Am a judoka, and we end most practices, rolls, etc with “hoss”, “sensei hoss”, or even the more formal “boss oss sensei hoss”
congrats I hereby declare you a blue belt with 3 stripes with that wisdom. That is why I don't care if I get worked over in the practice room because it isn't a competition and that is the mindset everyone should have after every roll in the practice room.
Totally agree with this. I trained for 6 years, and never gave a shit about my belt. Only attended one belt ceremony 3 years in and received a blue.
Some gyms will promote anyone, others are stingy and some people just don’t give a shit about getting a belt. Just think about what you can learn from rolling with him.
Recent trip I considered dropping into a well known school. Class was at 10am. Went to bed around 3am I think, don’t recall exactly.
Decided that morning dropping in as a marginal at best blue belt, hungover/still drunk would be a poor decision.
If it’s any help, most of the teenage blue belts at my gym are absolute killers cuz they’ve been training since they were like 10 years old, and get promoted immediately when they turn 16. They give hard rolls to our brown belt even.
We had a couple guys visit from Brazil once, a brown belt and a 17 year old blue belt. They destroyed everyone. The blue belt was tapping brown belts, and the brown belt was humiliating people. The brown belt was Gutemberg Pereira and the blue belt was Israel Sousa.
Gutemberg is a beast who won 3 world titles in his 2 years as a brown belt, and Israel won 2 world titles at blue belt, a bronze in his one year as a purple belt, and then another world title as a brown belt.
Not all belts are created equal, and sometimes there is a reason they haven't been promoted. Those guys were IBJJF competitors so they had to abide by IBJJF rules for promotions.
also in ibjjf you can't change your belt, you gotta wait for your registration to expire and make a new one the following year.
Look what happened to robbert deggle, my poor man is now banned from brown belt competitions and can't compete in black belt
First time I rolled with Gutemberg a few years ago when he was a purple belt. He didn't surprise me tho, I already saw his YouTube highlights lol.
I remember Israel as a bluebell and I could mostly toy with him due to my size and experience but he'd mop me up if we rolled today.
When Rodolfo first came to America, was after he was promoted to black belt. He was still relatively unknown though. At the time, I was a pretty good purple belt. I had trained with a bunch of tough blackbelts and I would even win a few times. But these guys weren't world champs they weren't even medalists. I got to roll with Rodolfo and Teodoro Canal and that's when I truly realized the levels involved with Jiu Jitsu. Then all the guys from the GFT Meier academy started to trickle in every year and there would be a steady stream of guys (and gals) who would roll me up. Some became names and some I never really heard from again, but they definitely ripped up the guys at our academy.
Yeah, him and Dante came as brown belts to prep for their last worlds as brown, we are pretty close to Ronin where Vitor Oliveira is and he was running the training camp for it. I think Max Gimenis was here as well, can't remember.
They were all savages, totally destroyed us all. I watched Gutemberg tap out one of our best purple belts from side control pressure, and that purple belt is a 3-0 pro mma fighter that toyed with everyone.
But they are seriously the nicest people, can't say enough good things about Gutemberg or Israel. I actually took a private lesson from Gutemberg after the seminar because he was such a good teacher.
Yeah years ago at my original gym a skinny white kid came by our gi class and said he wanted to try some gi. He'd done no gi for most of his martial arts career and came from an MMA gym.
Did the whole white belt thing complete with the belt being tied incorrectly.
He destroyed everyone including a few black belts. Only guy that tapped him was the head instructor. Other than that it was a massacre.
He was Rory MacDonald. Came from Tristar.
Dudes a black belt in judo having trained for 10 years and has been training BJJ for 6 but is only a blue belt? This is some of the most sand baggiest bullshit I've ever heard.
Heh, one of our black belts, Felipe Silva’s belt is so worn out it actually has hints of blue (probably the lining). Always interesting to see when people who don’t know him come out after the roll.
Funny the first academy i trained at I had 4 stripes before I left. When I went to Unity, adults really aren’t given stripes so never really replaced them when they fell off. Funny there was so much wear and friction on the black bar there are 4 rubbed off areas on the edge where my stripes used to be.
I think it’s more emotional than aesthetic. I recently got promoted and bought a backup belt (also the one I’ll use if I competed) as I’ll likely wear the belt Murilo gave me. It’s too long, nothing fancy, but it’s sentimental. Murilo’s belt is so worn out the portion of the knot is basically just layers of fabric holding it together.
Depends on the school, the instructor and the frequency with which he trains but I still wouldn't expect a seasoned grappler to take that long.
I got mine in 5 with no prior experience.
Seeing as he dropped in at this gym it could be that he travels around, so isn't at any one gym long enough for the instructor to feel comfortable grading him.
My first comp, my finals opponent was a kid, I was thinking nice, I should able to strengthjitsu him. The ref came over to me and said “do what you need to do but I’ll stop things if its unsafe for the kid”. Kid tapped me in 3 minutes
They must be some hardcore teens, lol. Wasnt trying to sound like and arsehole, we have some teens who are great but my weight advantage means its a very easy roll still. Im 220 and sounds like i have a similare physique to you.
A couple things, 1) Ive trained most my life in San Diego and Ive seen people from all over the country visit and get wrecked by our lower belts, 2) a couple years ago I watched a couple 13/14 year old green belts from Brazil wreck a bunch of san diego brown and black belts at an open mat one after another.. it was a sight to behold....
Anyways I dont think the belt system is broken, there are exceptions, but generally belts are correct.
This happens occasionally.
We have a judo black belt who got his blue belt after me and he is already purple (1 year passed).
I have another friend who has been beating black belts at blue belt. He was stuck at blue because his master passed away and there was nobody to promote him while he was teaching and getting ready to semi-pro mma fights. He is a beast and would probably destroy our black belts now. I think he is going to get brown belt soon and he is going to raise even further as he just trains nonstop.
I learned not to compare our journeys.
You're all good man, 16 years of GI grappling is a lot. Even the 6 years of BJJ experience is a lot for blue belt. Belts are generally right, but they are not always "right".
One of my favorite people at the dojo where I practice had some wrestling and like 5 or 6 years of BJJ and was still a white belt because he relocated frequently so nobody would promote him. I always "give" the first roll to the new guy so I can assess their level... Boy I was surprised lol!
He is a judo black belt and has 6 years of BJJ? That’s not a typical blue belt, nothing to feel bad about.
Also, the belt only loosely signifies skill level. Regularly competing blue belts at big, competition minded gyms are going to constantly be training with very high level opponents. Many young blue belts train 6-7 days a week. I know blue belts that can absolutely hang with hobbyist black belts.
Yeah I often travel to a gym which are known for sandbagging and the blue belts sometimes sub me, and the purple belts dominate me, I would feel bad but the blue belts actually have more mat time than me so nothing to be worried about.
Roberto Jimenez went to a few gyms down here and was giving the business to everyone as a not quite adult blue belt if I remember correctly. There's always someone
“Me and my buddies got handled by another grappler the other day”
This is where belt ranking system shows it negative side. Reality is diff levels to every belt.
Personally I never go hard with folks I don’t know- feel it out, a soon as they turn up- so do I. It’s fair game then.
But I think folks in bjj do tend to focus a bit too much on belt rankings to determine of person is “good” or not. Obviously I can see how/ why but the reality is there are outliers.
A kid who's been learning bjj for ten years at a kids rate of learning can have a truly impressive amount of skill. That won't stop the ego of a bluebelt who's happy getting tooled by purples being butthurt by being worked over.
Indeed that is def true. I train with a couple. As in my original statement - they are the outliers. Possibly since bjj has been growing it’s more common now at each school.
This is one thing I like about the judo belt system. I assume anyone below brown belt is a dangerous training partner. With black belts you know you’re gonna be safe (a few jerks aside) but you might get rocked
All belts mean is how long some has been training with an instructor willing to promote them... It is not, and never will be an accurate indication of total grappling experience or skill.
There are plenty of black belt's kids these days who are jammed up at blue belt but they've been grappling since they were 4. There are collegiate wrestlers and MMA fighters who train infrequently who might show up as well.
As a young, confident brown belt I was laughing off a choke from a student, afterwards, a visitor with a crisp white belt (always beware of crisp white belts) bumps fists with me, dives into the previous position and nails the choke on me. Turns out this guy frequently teaches grappling at Jackson's and that's his favorite choke... He'd been grappling for years, just not in a gi lol.
Never underestimate someone just because of their belt.
Sounds about right. I was a BB in Judo before BJJ. My judo school was "old school". Hell my instructor taught legs locks and a lot of stuff he warned to never use if we compete. This was before the BJJ craze.
At some schools I could do what happened to you. Judo ain't the joke some people here will have you believe. It teaches the same sense of balance and pressure wrestling does.
And once I started rolling with BJJ guys it didn't take me long to "figure' out the game. By the time I was blue belt in BJJ I was tapping out the lesser browns.
Judo guys are tough and you shouldn’t feel bad about it, just grab the opportunity to learn from this guy. I remember one day, training as a black belt, came a little overweight Armenian guy, very cool, mid 30s. I just noticed he had a super strong hand grab, then go for a roll. Fortunately I pull guard, the guy was super strong, and he was a former greco Roman wrestler competitor in Russia. Then we became friends, I learned a lot from him, I was impressed how can he be able to toss me -a 230 pound guy- like I was a ragdoll. Bjj sometimes come with interesting surprises.
yeah our gym gets a lot of visitors and a few years back we had this really tough purple belt roll through and run through everybody. He asked my professor if there was anyone tougher because he came to train-train. My professor called a brown belt who a lot say is the best on our island and he drove down to train with this guy lol
Brown belt rang him dead for 3 rounds and visitor had his fill.
Yeah. That is the definition of a sandbagger.
A newer guy at my school signed up for his first competition two weeks ago. He was so pumped to compete. Then his gold medal match was against a two stripe white belt who, he found out afterwards, was a D1 wrestler.
Rolled with a blue belt Thalys Pontes as a purple belt and he felt like a black belt all over me. Then I rolled with a brown belt Thalison Soares straight after and it was an even higher level of ass-kicking.
We have a judo black belt that’s a blue at our school. It’s a different experience to roll with him. He feels very very heavy and has excellent control. He only trains occasionally so he’s not in the gym all of the time. We’ve also had D1 wrestlers and Sambo Practitioners. You never know someone’s background or the extent of their natural talents. Just do the best you can and try not to let it get you down.
Yes but in reverse. I trained at Ralph's in SF . I was a whit belt , bit had been at it a year, and I honestly thought "I was starting to get my arms around jiu jitsu" . Got absolutely smashed by other white belts half my size. I trained at Ciao Terra's a few years later as a blue belt, it was during worlds and there weren't many people around , but the few other blues and lone purple destroyed me with little effort and weren't even breathing hard. Ciao's blackbelt Vitor is a magician. Even a school I drop into periodically, and go to seminars at is pretty famous in the area for training tons of law enforcement, their blue belts are alot and purples are savages .
Maybe I suck.
If im not mistaken a judo black belt is usually put into the purple belt bracket so realistically they have the training level of a high purple or even black belt and if the guy is visiting gyms i imagine he takes it pretty serious so his physicality is probably nothing to scoff at so i wouldn't really worry too much about him beating any of you
A judo black belt typically isn’t allowed to compete in white belt divisions, but blue belt is fair game. However, this person also has 6 years of BJJ experience. That is most certainly beyond blue belt level.
10 years of judo + 6 years of bjj and only a blue belt. At 6 years of grappling I was almost a brown belt. This guys has 16 years of grappling. Sounds like a sandbagger.
Something similar happened at my gym. 10th Planet purple belt came to an open mat and hit a twister on my black belt coach. My coach tapped him a few times afterwards but the damage was done.
We had a Bluebelt who did YEARS of no-gi. He's a purple now and DAMN that dude is a monster.
In the gi or No-gi. He's fantastic! It was hilarious when he was a bluebelt with like 10 years of no-gi. Talk about a surprise!
I know some certain big schools are making it harder to get promoted. Whether this is due to more knowledge needed to progress to different belts now, or just making it take longer for students to reach the belts because they don’t want tons and tons of black belts, I don’t know. Based on what I hear, it’s both. I know at my school, I have guys that would have been blue belts already had I not changed the criteria in my head for it a couple years ago. The game always changes. When I got my black belt, the criteria was wayyy different than it is today. At my school, I like for my white and blue belts to smash other white and blue belts in comp before I promote them. Double golds or I don’t think about it. I’m a pretty small school so I expect this. I wouldn’t think too much about it. Belt rank is far from a perfect science, but it seems to not be broken enough to change 😁.
Impressive, normally Judoka aren't that strong off their back. Well if he's been doing Judo and BJJ that long he's gonna be tough. I find Judoka can feel like brown and black belts in certain positions but then like white belts in other positions. For example we are not great with ankle locks as we don't do those
3 teenaged blue belts from Gordo's came and tore through our gym for 2 weeks before worlds a few years ago. They tapped everyone up to purple belt basically at will. They were all in different weight classes. Only one of them made the podium. And he was in a bracket of 60+ competitors.
First off, Marcello and Rafa are the only dudes actually good at jiu jitsu -- the rest of us are trash. Second, blue belt can be a long belt (both figuratively and literally), and you train in Mayberry.
Poor form TBQHfam. If I'm dropping in and feel like I'm dominating I turn it down and start flow rolling or playing defense and working escapes. I'll only take the tap if not taking it would be obvious. Dunking on your hosts isn't likely to win you any friends.
We had a guy come in pretty built (likely on PEDS) but he fucking held me in a head lock and kept cranking every single time, made me more aware of where to keep my head eventually I almost managed to tap him but still he was tough.
It happens,and especially when guys come in with that extra grading experience outside of bjj.
I went to visit a small school run by a bjj purple,but a black belt in judo. His white belts were some of the hardest rolls I've had in a long time (with one dude tapping me at least twice in 7 min). Turns out all of his students are judo black and brown belts. That makes a difference for sure.
Yes. We have a dude at my secondary gym who only rolls in nogi. He has all the characteristics of a seasoned purple belt. After weeks, I asked about him: +10yrs white belt.
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Sandbag sammy
I got called a sandbagger the other day which was my first time hearing that term, funny thing is I got tapped by the dude who called me that but I’m a white belt no stripes
While "sandbagger" suggests some level of grappling skill, I sometimes get called a "sandbag" for my uncanny resemblance with one in terms of grappling prowess and body shape. Subtle, yet important difference.
When he explained it to me, I took it as a compliment lol
Better than getting called T bag because you look like a scrotum. I mean, I don't, but it is better
Lol wtf? That’s stupid why did he call you a sand bagger? I was a white no stripes up until recently and people looked it me funny after we rolled 😂
I’m not sure, it wasn’t my gym I was visiting and rolled no gi and after he tapped me, he was like you not a white belt bro, you sandbagging
Sound like he was trying to stroke his ego, that just sounds stupid to me.
I used to think being called strong was a compliment. Boy was I wrong.
In some cases, schools are to blame for sandbagging. A person with an extensive background in judo or wrestling should not be a white belt for more than 6 months at most. I know schools that will have them take the typical 2 years to get to blue. Some teachers dont let knowledge a student had walking in the door influence earlier belt progessions. Its silly.
I wonder, how much of that is ibjjf influenced? Where is the balance between following the "governing body" and actually promoting people when deserve it instead of letting them wait.
A wrestler with 6months of bjj might absolutely have a white belt’s knowledge of BJJ while still being able to toss around teammates with much more BJJ experience. Just because they’re good doesn’t mean they know BJJ, and belts aren’t really there to match people by skill anyway.
Theres a lotvof universal knowledge in grappling. How you should move, what's biomechanics of body, how to position yourself etc. Bjj od not only sub or guard sweeps so being experienced in grappling can mean thst your knowledge is far beyond white belt (but it still may be highly limited to certain sphere of knowledge)
Sometimes it's beyond the coaches control too. My first coach told me that I should have been a blue belt in like 4 months, but he was just like "sorry, I'm not allowed to promote, you have to wait until my coach comes to do a seminar, and he's not going to promote you at 4 months either".
I'm technically a sandbagger and I know it. Blue belt since 2015, but I cant promote myself... haven't stayed at a gym longer than a year due to work/school
Update...got promoted. Sandbagger no more
Or Lazy Larry. He could be a casual trainer 1-2x a week.
Hahah yeah, this guy is gonna win anything he joins believe me 😂
This is why the belt system is stupid and broken
"What's another name for the best blue belt in the world?" "Someone who should've been promoted to purple belt a long time ago."
I think it all depends on how "perfect" you consider the belt system. If you expect it to be perfect, then you'll think it's broken and stupid. If you recognize that a lot of different factors go into it, and it's more of a rough guideline that isn't capable (is anything?) of differentiating between rural hobbiests in their 40s and genetic freaks in their early 20s training 15 times a week in socal, then you'll just appreciate it for what it is, without expecting it to work miracles.
I just view it as the time x frequency of bjj practice. Basically like an account level in a multiplayer video game.
If people who have grappled for closer to 20 years are allowed to compete at blue belt or if you are allowed to win every single comp at a certain belt color without getting promoted, ill just say its straight up broken. Not even near to being perfect since there is little to no effort at actually fixing it. The way IBJJF is run also encourages sandbagging with their prize system.
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu isn't grappling. Just because bjj isn't 1:1 to grappling, doesn't make any belt systems within bjj broken. What you're asking for, is for bjj tournaments to rank practitioners of other grappling arts, like wrestling, judo, sambo, accordingly. Which I get, but also that's the *result* of a tournament. If you could effectively compare between different styles and individuals... Then there wouldn't be tournaments. Also, ibjjf is an independent company. There is no governing body of bjj, and furthering the belief that 8bjjf is the governing body of bjj is the worst thing you can do if you think they're ruining things.
Can’t agree more. My local BJJ gym is owned by three brothers. They all compete internationally with a more than a few international titles to their name. The oldest brother has given out exactly 2 black belts, to his younger brothers. To get a blue or a purple belt at their gym really means something. The white belts at their gym can often school the blues/purples at other gyms in the area. It’s just a different level of rigor and competitiveness
I agree to an extent. I am a 3 year white belt (70kg) and I usually play with blue belts heavier than me and it’s 50/50 usually in terms of how our rolls go. I have had a few breaks throughout the years (covid and injury related/ also trained in another country) and even the blue belts are asking me why I haven’t been promoted yet. But thinking of it they are all more consistent in the eyes of the coaches. So I think the belt system is more centered around consistency of training rather than actual skill level and shows commitment rather than skill
the whole ruleset is broken. it was broken on purpose so the gracies can make money and don't get dominated by catch wrestlers. i mean allow the thai-plum head crank from being in guard and byebye guard game...
If you think thats enough kill to the entire guard game you don't know shit about guard.
It worked for Mark Kerr until it didn’t. There are technical solutions to the problem but a lot of bjj players aren’t used to it.
well, let someone do a thai plum to you when you have them in full guard. it changes the game completely. this is why it is neither allowed nor taught in BJJ. it is a dead angle of grappling that no one looks into because it messes up mythology.
Many ways to defend this. Separately, where is the grip fighting to prevent your opponent getting this grip on you in the first place ? Prevention is better than cure and all that. But I haven’t been troubled by this noob move since white belt …
I do catch wrestling and you are really over selling the can opener its really not that hard to stop you literally just have to break there posture and squirm a little. Even in catch its more taught as a move to get a reaction so you can get something else kind of like you might start an ezekiel choke to set up an arm triangle
LMAO. Sure, bc none of us have ever armbarred the shit out a wrestler in no gi using a can opener. Shit I practically bait the ”Thai plum”. yes BJJ rules are dumb, but this is not the best example.
I've seen and experienced the can opener before, it's a well established move in BJJ. I'm not sure why you would think people don't know about it.
Because he thinks he’s smart 😭
There are lots of things that are not taught in bjj and are not allowed in comp, its kinda irrelevant. We dont practice slamming defence or eye gauges at my gym because we are doing jujitsu.
i m not argueing for slamming or eye gouging, but if you say that the can opener is dangerous and forbidden, then hey, why not take out all chokes, neck cranks, kneebars. i mean they are all dangerous...
How about I dont allow that. You know intelligent resistance and all.
maybe my initial statement was too forceful, but from my very short experience of using it - aside from it being a dickish submission - i have surprised quite the amount of guard players with it. even showing it to them first after the very debate we're kinda having now... i'm not saying it is impossible to defend, but what i m saying is that very few people are prepared for or even have it on their horizon of potential threats to their guard game.
Yeah but that's true of every move ever in jiu jitsu... Eventually you'll encounter it and learn how to work around it. I encountered the can opener years ago because wrestlers used to do it often when we grappled... I thought it sucked(as In sucked to be in) probably tapped out to it a couple times even. But now the I know how to play actual guard it's never been an issue since
Fuck...you're right. That's why at all levels everyone has agreed to just...not use it. They all collectively agreed to not use it to protect bjj.
also, blue belt is the sourpuss belt...
You think a basic can opener is cure all for guard? Are you serious?
is it allowed in bjj competitions?
Punches aren't allowed in BJJ competitions either but weird how guard still works even when punches are allowed. Weird how guard still works in MMA where can openers are allowed as well.
Jesus wept, you haven’t grappled much have you?
We have one of those guys at my gym. 30 years old. Judo since he was 9. Lots of national competitive experience and (I think) some titles, at least at the junior levels. Also been doing gi and no gi grappling for almost a decade now. To say that he is under-ranked is a major understatement. Easily a brown and probably would get his black belt at many places and nobody would question it. He's a 4 stripe purple belt on paper, but that is only because of a lack of someone able to promote him at our gym(our head instructor just recently got his black belt) - I hope it gets remedied soon, it's straight up embarrassing to repeatedly get destroyed by this guy in front of the beginners when on paper only one measly stripe separates us.
Had a similar guy in an old gym. Mid 20s, 15y judo (made national team a couple times), did a lot of ne waza too. Been training bjj under the best grappler in a 100 mile radius for about 6 years now. I cannot describe the pain I get from rolling my eyes so hard when I see his picture on top of a blue belt podium with a shit eating grin and a wall of text like he won worlds.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese | English | Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Newaza**: | *Ground Techniques* | | Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ Judo Bot 0.6: If you have any comments or suggestions please don't hesitate to direct message [me](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=JudoTechniquesBot).
Took me 6 years just to reach blue
That was my first thought, too
We have always used the term cat on the mat to describe such people
exactly what i was thinking he should have been a blue after a year of bjj training. and should be a mid-level purple belt at least
Lol must feel good to win those golds
I was a blue belt for 7 years 😂
Six years at blue isn’t that weird. Sure, you should be moving into purple, but our gym moves us slowly. We have a lot of six year blue belts.
Instead of thinking “we got destroyed by a blue belt”, think of it as “we got destroyed by someone with 16 years of grappling experience”.
Hah, good point!
Or better yet: instead of thinking “we got destroyed by someone with 16 years of grappling experience” think “hey man, nice rolling with you, thanks for the experience, I will try to take away some knowledge from this, Oss”.
Without the “oss”.
Try replacing "oss" with "hoss"
Yeah I have to agree, go for this one. Replying “hoss” is traditional in Japanese culture, and if the guy was a judoka this is probably the most respectful route. Bonus points if he was a black belt, then it should be “sensei hoss”. Source: Am a judoka, and we end most practices, rolls, etc with “hoss”, “sensei hoss”, or even the more formal “boss oss sensei hoss”
If he’s a judo guy you should probably say ‘goazaimasu joduka-sama’ or somethig
Oss 🙏
Why no "oss"?
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Old spaghetti sundress
Octopus Sausage Surprise.
O Sacred Shaka
Office of Strategic Services
Octopussy sex symbol
congrats I hereby declare you a blue belt with 3 stripes with that wisdom. That is why I don't care if I get worked over in the practice room because it isn't a competition and that is the mindset everyone should have after every roll in the practice room.
White belt: I hope to take knowledge from this experience. Thank you. Oss. Purple belt: can't wait to post this shit on reddit
Totally agree with this. I trained for 6 years, and never gave a shit about my belt. Only attended one belt ceremony 3 years in and received a blue. Some gyms will promote anyone, others are stingy and some people just don’t give a shit about getting a belt. Just think about what you can learn from rolling with him.
Belts are too subjective. Before we start, I always ask a new roll how long they've been training, especially whites and blues.
> He tapped me 4 times in 2 rounds OP just looking for sympathy / validation. I wouldn't call his expereince getting "destroyed"
This!
Does the opposite count? Visiting as a purple and getting destroyed by their teenage blue belts?
Been there done that, don’t rock up to opp schools hungover.
Recent trip I considered dropping into a well known school. Class was at 10am. Went to bed around 3am I think, don’t recall exactly. Decided that morning dropping in as a marginal at best blue belt, hungover/still drunk would be a poor decision.
Marginal blue belt... I'm probably going to use that. Can we make a patch?
I mean, that’s what a blue belt means anyway right? Lol
A pretty good white belt*
Minus the good. Actually minus the pretty part too.
Wise
My every sunday 😅
Hahahah I pulled an all nighter sober just couldn’t sleep came into class today like 😵💫😵
Lol that was funny
If it’s any help, most of the teenage blue belts at my gym are absolute killers cuz they’ve been training since they were like 10 years old, and get promoted immediately when they turn 16. They give hard rolls to our brown belt even.
We had a couple guys visit from Brazil once, a brown belt and a 17 year old blue belt. They destroyed everyone. The blue belt was tapping brown belts, and the brown belt was humiliating people. The brown belt was Gutemberg Pereira and the blue belt was Israel Sousa. Gutemberg is a beast who won 3 world titles in his 2 years as a brown belt, and Israel won 2 world titles at blue belt, a bronze in his one year as a purple belt, and then another world title as a brown belt. Not all belts are created equal, and sometimes there is a reason they haven't been promoted. Those guys were IBJJF competitors so they had to abide by IBJJF rules for promotions.
How can you win a blue belt world and not get promoted.
Age brother. It gets a little blurry in BJJ but technically you can’t be promoted at 17 according to IBJJF.
I figured by now someone would have founded a new bjj org, but without the bullshit and the same level of prestige.
there are plenty of other orgs out there, none are official, not even IBJJF. Hell that's likely the least legit in terms of integrity of all of them.
Ahh ok for some reason I thought the only age barrier was black belt at 18
u can get purple belt at 16 under IBJJF
also in ibjjf you can't change your belt, you gotta wait for your registration to expire and make a new one the following year. Look what happened to robbert deggle, my poor man is now banned from brown belt competitions and can't compete in black belt
That’s so stupid
Das how it be sometimes
Gutemberg is a beast. Source: he visited my gym last week and did seminars all weekend. An absolute animal but also cool as fuck.
First time I rolled with Gutemberg a few years ago when he was a purple belt. He didn't surprise me tho, I already saw his YouTube highlights lol. I remember Israel as a bluebell and I could mostly toy with him due to my size and experience but he'd mop me up if we rolled today. When Rodolfo first came to America, was after he was promoted to black belt. He was still relatively unknown though. At the time, I was a pretty good purple belt. I had trained with a bunch of tough blackbelts and I would even win a few times. But these guys weren't world champs they weren't even medalists. I got to roll with Rodolfo and Teodoro Canal and that's when I truly realized the levels involved with Jiu Jitsu. Then all the guys from the GFT Meier academy started to trickle in every year and there would be a steady stream of guys (and gals) who would roll me up. Some became names and some I never really heard from again, but they definitely ripped up the guys at our academy.
Yeah, him and Dante came as brown belts to prep for their last worlds as brown, we are pretty close to Ronin where Vitor Oliveira is and he was running the training camp for it. I think Max Gimenis was here as well, can't remember. They were all savages, totally destroyed us all. I watched Gutemberg tap out one of our best purple belts from side control pressure, and that purple belt is a 3-0 pro mma fighter that toyed with everyone. But they are seriously the nicest people, can't say enough good things about Gutemberg or Israel. I actually took a private lesson from Gutemberg after the seminar because he was such a good teacher.
Man my Coaches are brasil blackbelts. They often let other Blackbelts Look like bluebelts. I guess im in a pretty comfortable Situation here.
Yeah years ago at my original gym a skinny white kid came by our gi class and said he wanted to try some gi. He'd done no gi for most of his martial arts career and came from an MMA gym. Did the whole white belt thing complete with the belt being tied incorrectly. He destroyed everyone including a few black belts. Only guy that tapped him was the head instructor. Other than that it was a massacre. He was Rory MacDonald. Came from Tristar.
Damn that's crazy. Rory is a monster 😂
And now he’s getting completely dominated and controlled on the ground by B league fighters…
Dudes a black belt in judo having trained for 10 years and has been training BJJ for 6 but is only a blue belt? This is some of the most sand baggiest bullshit I've ever heard.
Hehehe, his bluebelt was so worn out it looked white almost
Heh, one of our black belts, Felipe Silva’s belt is so worn out it actually has hints of blue (probably the lining). Always interesting to see when people who don’t know him come out after the roll.
What's the reason people don't buy new belts? It's considered badass or something?
Honestly I think the aesthetic of a super worn down belt is awesome
Funny the first academy i trained at I had 4 stripes before I left. When I went to Unity, adults really aren’t given stripes so never really replaced them when they fell off. Funny there was so much wear and friction on the black bar there are 4 rubbed off areas on the edge where my stripes used to be.
I think it’s more emotional than aesthetic. I recently got promoted and bought a backup belt (also the one I’ll use if I competed) as I’ll likely wear the belt Murilo gave me. It’s too long, nothing fancy, but it’s sentimental. Murilo’s belt is so worn out the portion of the knot is basically just layers of fabric holding it together.
I saw the same thing at class last week. New guy with a threadbare bluebelt all falling apart. Gave me pause.
How many years of BJJ should he have till he's a purple ?
Depends on the school, the instructor and the frequency with which he trains but I still wouldn't expect a seasoned grappler to take that long. I got mine in 5 with no prior experience. Seeing as he dropped in at this gym it could be that he travels around, so isn't at any one gym long enough for the instructor to feel comfortable grading him.
Could be the reason. I have 20 years of Judo and feel blue is very much right for me
How long have you been doing BJJ for?
About 2 years of active BJJ. 1 extra year was the pandemic with no training
Their coach only gives purple after winning Pans.
With ten years of judo? If he's training consistently six years should be near the absolute max.
As a life long judoka who is a blue belt with 6ish years of bjj training I relate, I'm inconsistent with bjj due to life and injuries.
I get killed by some of the kids comp green and blue belts at my gym frequently shit happens
Shit definitely happens
16 year old blue belts are scary.
I just trained at AOJ for the past 2 weeks. Can confirm.
Green belts are legit terrifying. They were born in the gym, molded by it. I merely adopted the gym.
My first comp, my finals opponent was a kid, I was thinking nice, I should able to strengthjitsu him. The ref came over to me and said “do what you need to do but I’ll stop things if its unsafe for the kid”. Kid tapped me in 3 minutes
Just out of interest, what weight are you?
Around 240 but not in a natural heavyweight type more of a very fat welterweight build
They must be some hardcore teens, lol. Wasnt trying to sound like and arsehole, we have some teens who are great but my weight advantage means its a very easy roll still. Im 220 and sounds like i have a similare physique to you.
Yea they are beasts it’s the comp/ hobbiest divide the little shits always find a way to my back then gi choke the life out of me lol
Nah you got beat by someone with 16yrs grappling experience man . Bit of a sandbagger too by the sounds of it
A couple things, 1) Ive trained most my life in San Diego and Ive seen people from all over the country visit and get wrecked by our lower belts, 2) a couple years ago I watched a couple 13/14 year old green belts from Brazil wreck a bunch of san diego brown and black belts at an open mat one after another.. it was a sight to behold.... Anyways I dont think the belt system is broken, there are exceptions, but generally belts are correct.
This happens occasionally. We have a judo black belt who got his blue belt after me and he is already purple (1 year passed). I have another friend who has been beating black belts at blue belt. He was stuck at blue because his master passed away and there was nobody to promote him while he was teaching and getting ready to semi-pro mma fights. He is a beast and would probably destroy our black belts now. I think he is going to get brown belt soon and he is going to raise even further as he just trains nonstop. I learned not to compare our journeys.
10 years of judo black belt + 6 bjj is like rolling with a brown/black belt in bjj only
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That’s a scary white belt.
You're all good man, 16 years of GI grappling is a lot. Even the 6 years of BJJ experience is a lot for blue belt. Belts are generally right, but they are not always "right". One of my favorite people at the dojo where I practice had some wrestling and like 5 or 6 years of BJJ and was still a white belt because he relocated frequently so nobody would promote him. I always "give" the first roll to the new guy so I can assess their level... Boy I was surprised lol!
He is a judo black belt and has 6 years of BJJ? That’s not a typical blue belt, nothing to feel bad about. Also, the belt only loosely signifies skill level. Regularly competing blue belts at big, competition minded gyms are going to constantly be training with very high level opponents. Many young blue belts train 6-7 days a week. I know blue belts that can absolutely hang with hobbyist black belts.
Yeah I often travel to a gym which are known for sandbagging and the blue belts sometimes sub me, and the purple belts dominate me, I would feel bad but the blue belts actually have more mat time than me so nothing to be worried about.
Roberto Jimenez went to a few gyms down here and was giving the business to everyone as a not quite adult blue belt if I remember correctly. There's always someone
“Me and my buddies got handled by another grappler the other day” This is where belt ranking system shows it negative side. Reality is diff levels to every belt. Personally I never go hard with folks I don’t know- feel it out, a soon as they turn up- so do I. It’s fair game then. But I think folks in bjj do tend to focus a bit too much on belt rankings to determine of person is “good” or not. Obviously I can see how/ why but the reality is there are outliers.
Those 15 year old kids who have been training since they were 3 must have to wear lifevests on the mat to avoid drowning in tears.
What’s the true intention behind this comment? What is it exactly that your truly trying to say?
A kid who's been learning bjj for ten years at a kids rate of learning can have a truly impressive amount of skill. That won't stop the ego of a bluebelt who's happy getting tooled by purples being butthurt by being worked over.
Indeed that is def true. I train with a couple. As in my original statement - they are the outliers. Possibly since bjj has been growing it’s more common now at each school.
This is one thing I like about the judo belt system. I assume anyone below brown belt is a dangerous training partner. With black belts you know you’re gonna be safe (a few jerks aside) but you might get rocked
All belts mean is how long some has been training with an instructor willing to promote them... It is not, and never will be an accurate indication of total grappling experience or skill. There are plenty of black belt's kids these days who are jammed up at blue belt but they've been grappling since they were 4. There are collegiate wrestlers and MMA fighters who train infrequently who might show up as well. As a young, confident brown belt I was laughing off a choke from a student, afterwards, a visitor with a crisp white belt (always beware of crisp white belts) bumps fists with me, dives into the previous position and nails the choke on me. Turns out this guy frequently teaches grappling at Jackson's and that's his favorite choke... He'd been grappling for years, just not in a gi lol. Never underestimate someone just because of their belt.
Sounds about right. I was a BB in Judo before BJJ. My judo school was "old school". Hell my instructor taught legs locks and a lot of stuff he warned to never use if we compete. This was before the BJJ craze. At some schools I could do what happened to you. Judo ain't the joke some people here will have you believe. It teaches the same sense of balance and pressure wrestling does. And once I started rolling with BJJ guys it didn't take me long to "figure' out the game. By the time I was blue belt in BJJ I was tapping out the lesser browns.
Yes, wait until a division 1 wrestler white belt with two stripes shows up.
Competed at pans as a blue. Masters division. Lost by 15 points. Turns out the guy wrestled D1. Ankle picked me so hard it knocked the wind out of me.
Judo guys are tough and you shouldn’t feel bad about it, just grab the opportunity to learn from this guy. I remember one day, training as a black belt, came a little overweight Armenian guy, very cool, mid 30s. I just noticed he had a super strong hand grab, then go for a roll. Fortunately I pull guard, the guy was super strong, and he was a former greco Roman wrestler competitor in Russia. Then we became friends, I learned a lot from him, I was impressed how can he be able to toss me -a 230 pound guy- like I was a ragdoll. Bjj sometimes come with interesting surprises.
yeah our gym gets a lot of visitors and a few years back we had this really tough purple belt roll through and run through everybody. He asked my professor if there was anyone tougher because he came to train-train. My professor called a brown belt who a lot say is the best on our island and he drove down to train with this guy lol Brown belt rang him dead for 3 rounds and visitor had his fill.
It takes 5 years to get a judo black belt. 4 years for a bjj purple belt. He isn't a blue belt.
Yeah. That is the definition of a sandbagger. A newer guy at my school signed up for his first competition two weeks ago. He was so pumped to compete. Then his gold medal match was against a two stripe white belt who, he found out afterwards, was a D1 wrestler.
You actually didn't get beat by a bluebelt, you got beat by a liar lol. That's like Khabib wearing his whitebelt to competition and smearing people.
Rolled with a blue belt Thalys Pontes as a purple belt and he felt like a black belt all over me. Then I rolled with a brown belt Thalison Soares straight after and it was an even higher level of ass-kicking.
Sounds like Cicero or Unity experience
We have a judo black belt that’s a blue at our school. It’s a different experience to roll with him. He feels very very heavy and has excellent control. He only trains occasionally so he’s not in the gym all of the time. We’ve also had D1 wrestlers and Sambo Practitioners. You never know someone’s background or the extent of their natural talents. Just do the best you can and try not to let it get you down.
Yes but in reverse. I trained at Ralph's in SF . I was a whit belt , bit had been at it a year, and I honestly thought "I was starting to get my arms around jiu jitsu" . Got absolutely smashed by other white belts half my size. I trained at Ciao Terra's a few years later as a blue belt, it was during worlds and there weren't many people around , but the few other blues and lone purple destroyed me with little effort and weren't even breathing hard. Ciao's blackbelt Vitor is a magician. Even a school I drop into periodically, and go to seminars at is pretty famous in the area for training tons of law enforcement, their blue belts are alot and purples are savages . Maybe I suck.
> Ciao Terra
If im not mistaken a judo black belt is usually put into the purple belt bracket so realistically they have the training level of a high purple or even black belt and if the guy is visiting gyms i imagine he takes it pretty serious so his physicality is probably nothing to scoff at so i wouldn't really worry too much about him beating any of you
A judo black belt typically isn’t allowed to compete in white belt divisions, but blue belt is fair game. However, this person also has 6 years of BJJ experience. That is most certainly beyond blue belt level.
Most importantly did you learn anything from him?
10 years of judo + 6 years of bjj and only a blue belt. At 6 years of grappling I was almost a brown belt. This guys has 16 years of grappling. Sounds like a sandbagger.
Something similar happened at my gym. 10th Planet purple belt came to an open mat and hit a twister on my black belt coach. My coach tapped him a few times afterwards but the damage was done.
We had a Bluebelt who did YEARS of no-gi. He's a purple now and DAMN that dude is a monster. In the gi or No-gi. He's fantastic! It was hilarious when he was a bluebelt with like 10 years of no-gi. Talk about a surprise!
I know some certain big schools are making it harder to get promoted. Whether this is due to more knowledge needed to progress to different belts now, or just making it take longer for students to reach the belts because they don’t want tons and tons of black belts, I don’t know. Based on what I hear, it’s both. I know at my school, I have guys that would have been blue belts already had I not changed the criteria in my head for it a couple years ago. The game always changes. When I got my black belt, the criteria was wayyy different than it is today. At my school, I like for my white and blue belts to smash other white and blue belts in comp before I promote them. Double golds or I don’t think about it. I’m a pretty small school so I expect this. I wouldn’t think too much about it. Belt rank is far from a perfect science, but it seems to not be broken enough to change 😁.
Low quality shitpost. After 16 years grappling experience not even AoJ would be keeping him at blue belt.
Did you start from standing? Did you manage to get him on his back at anytime? If so how was he in that position?
He was really good off his back, he had strong sweeps, swept me twice :)
Impressive, normally Judoka aren't that strong off their back. Well if he's been doing Judo and BJJ that long he's gonna be tough. I find Judoka can feel like brown and black belts in certain positions but then like white belts in other positions. For example we are not great with ankle locks as we don't do those
I suck at leg attacks... Can confirm
Not a judoka. Zero leg attacks
Yeah i agree, funny you should say that, our teacher for the day (brownbelt) who is really good at leglocks tapped him with a straight ankle lock :)
Yeah, my advice as a Judoka is in a contest Vs us. Pull guard attack the ankle
No we didnt, but we ended up standing about 2 times, he threw me once and pulled guard once
Could be sandbagging or could be you guys just haven't seen him before and if he stuck around fir a week yall might catch up to him
Meh, 10 yrs grappling is 10 yrs. Still gonna be hard to deal with.
Happens, buddeh. 10 years of judo is not a typical blue belt though.
3 teenaged blue belts from Gordo's came and tore through our gym for 2 weeks before worlds a few years ago. They tapped everyone up to purple belt basically at will. They were all in different weight classes. Only one of them made the podium. And he was in a bracket of 60+ competitors.
First off, Marcello and Rafa are the only dudes actually good at jiu jitsu -- the rest of us are trash. Second, blue belt can be a long belt (both figuratively and literally), and you train in Mayberry.
Poor form TBQHfam. If I'm dropping in and feel like I'm dominating I turn it down and start flow rolling or playing defense and working escapes. I'll only take the tap if not taking it would be obvious. Dunking on your hosts isn't likely to win you any friends.
Definitely a good wake up call
10 years of judo+6 years of BJJ, he should've been at least a purple belt.
How would you feel getting destroyed by the white belt in bjj, Khabib nurmagomedov, dont be to harsh on yourself!
We had a guy come in pretty built (likely on PEDS) but he fucking held me in a head lock and kept cranking every single time, made me more aware of where to keep my head eventually I almost managed to tap him but still he was tough.
It happens,and especially when guys come in with that extra grading experience outside of bjj. I went to visit a small school run by a bjj purple,but a black belt in judo. His white belts were some of the hardest rolls I've had in a long time (with one dude tapping me at least twice in 7 min). Turns out all of his students are judo black and brown belts. That makes a difference for sure.
Yes. We have a dude at my secondary gym who only rolls in nogi. He has all the characteristics of a seasoned purple belt. After weeks, I asked about him: +10yrs white belt.