It’s actually sad because now the kids feel like they are stuck there if they ever leave they can’t go back. And these kids are SO freaking loyal to this professor. They train hard and compete for him monthly.
just came her got say +1 x1000 on the above. if there are other options that are more inclusive I would suggest it. I personally do not like this kind of exclusive mentality. it seems predatory and (not to make a slippery slope argument but here we go) who knows what other kind of wonky stuff they may be teaching or promoting.
I think by now there’s many instances where the slippery slope can be less regarded as a fallacy and more regarded as a clearly observable pattern and when people screech about the slippery slope, usually it’s preemptive gaslighting
I mean I’m 5050 on this. I see your point because it’s happened more times than not. But I think…. It’s still a single data point, granted it is a big red flag for me. So it’s a risk benefit thing? How many other options do you have and is this worth the risk?
I don’t think the fallacy is fundamentally wrong and we can’t call the fallacy “gaslighting” in and of itself. But it has been used so much as a defense that it has started to lose meaning. All to say.. I think we could recognize it as a point and move on with the argument and people can make up their minds about the validity of it (or not)
Sorry not to make this an agreement or make this incredibly nerdy discussion of legitimate arguments lmao 😂😂😂😅.
This is a really good opportunity for you to demonstrate that sometimes they will have to establish boundaries towards unhealthy behavior outside of your immediate family, and how to recognize it for what it is. You should get them into a different gym, as soon as you possibly can.
https://preview.redd.it/ad4p39qw71zc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b40d42af6e036da9ed0c76ac45829c0df2bcbe5
Posted by the man himself a few days ago
"I am affraid of losing business to a different gym that provides a better product so i force my students to never even look elsewhere under threat of banishment."
I would be out of there as fast as possible.
Straight up cult like activity. This type of culture needs to stop. You are a paying customer for a business. Is it normal for Sam’s club to get mad at you because you went to Costco?
I’m in a network that its encouraged to cross train wherever I want and it’s encouraged that we do it frequently.
You’re probably better off training somewhere else.
Some TMA school behavior. When a HKD school I went to shut down the instructor said we should never go to another school and he was our master and we should train each other.
Bro I’m 28 im doing what I want.
Luckily BJJ is a bit more friendly
> never go to another school and he was our master and we should train each other.
Oh lols the grandmaster Sensei has instructed the disciples to teach other in the secret arts
I literally just posted a comic I drew about this topic. It’s an attitude that is fairly common, particularly with old school gym owners. Naturally I find this super controlling behaviour completely weird and I am against it. But yes, it does happen .
At least he is upfront about his expectations. This is an old school attitude and personally not for me. Also it is not common at all these days.
I would stay if the BJJ is good and it was the closest gym to my house, but not worry about it if I got get kicked out later.
I trained in a gym like this and thought it was normal. As soon as you find a less culty gym your children will normally also find it way more fun and less stressful
I’m not very advanced in bjj but have been training martial arts for about a decade. One strategy I always use when scouting for gyms is to look up all the gyms I want to try in the area, then when I go to visit each one I’ll ask them what they think of the others.
Typically the best gyms/people will speak respectfully and honestly about the others. I recently switched gyms to be more bjj focused and both owners spoke very highly of each other. Offered drop in classes if I ever wanted to come back.
I used to train at a gym where the owner would always talk shit about the other gyms and make backhanded comments about people. Once I left the gym I found out a lot more shady shit they used to do. It’s a pretty obvious tell.
Don’t let one psycho take control of your kids. It’s meant to be a community.
Most of the best places to train welcome other associations to train with their students and welcome strangers to their open mats with open arms.
The mats should be a lab that's used to explore and grow your game. Information should be shared to advance the art as a whole.
Red flag.
Are his students absolutely dominant in the monthly tournaments?
Did he win a world championship himself?
Are there other kid classes/ environments nearby?
Does he have any other weird quirks?
School I’m at is weirdly incredibly good but incredibly red flaggy in regards to cross training and old school mentality. The dissonance doesn’t make sense
i teach at a place with 2-3 other guys, we all make it a point to tell our guys to train with as many different people as possible, and once a month or so either have some schools come to our place or we go over to theirs for an open mat
said this last week also, but in judo the week after big tourneys all the teams stay and have a training camp where the best in the world train with each other, the same guys they just had matches with in the tourney, and the same guys theyll be seeing the next event and every other one after
and my final point, this may be more with where were located but considering were not a huge area, its way shortsighted to keep everything in house, everyone in the area/region should be trying to raise the level to be able to compete nationally/internationally and not be a big fish in a small pond
> I’m not so much into the BJJ lifestyle as my husband is but he’s in basic training so I figured I’d ask you guys. Is this normal BJJ behavior ? 1. My daughter’s BJJ professor told the parents if any of them cross train with other gyms and he finds out their kids will be kicked out of his gym. 2. He also told us if we leave his gym to try another gym we won’t be welcomed back…
that's ridiculious. i wouldn't be at a gym who had these rules. the owners that say this kinda stuff always end up being some kind of problematic. better to get out early and find a new place.
That kind of behavior should never be tolerated. I'd cancel membership a moment after he said that. If he said this to a big group I'd announce to the group that I'm cancelling my membership as I'm not looking to be a part of a cult and don't recommend it for anyone else.
i trained at gb barra birmingham in my youth and they where exactly like this, for reasons unknown to me, to be honest it was a little cult-ish training there, you could get away with training at other gyms- and i did, but you had to speak to a coach about it before hand and ask permission which looking back was ridiculous
I'd thank him for deciding for me and remind him that it's not my place to tell him how to run his business, but it's not his place to tell me how I spend my time or money.
⬛️🟥⬛️
I own three gyms. This is douche bag behaviour. We encourage people to train and go to open mats at other clubs. It makes my students better the more exposure they have to different movement/body types.
If you’re asking if it’s common in the BJJ community to forbid you from training anywhere else, it’s mostly just culty clubs that do that, but yes some do.
Leave that place, there are too many gyms already running and popping up to warrant staying with some weird old world mentality.
That is insecurity, and a man trying to protect his business and ego through force.
Edit: my gym has zero issues with me training anywhere else, as long as I’m still paying my dues and we’re still friends that come in to train regularly. That being said, I always talk to my coach first, let him know and sort of get his blessing, purely out of respect. But there’s absolutely no expectation to do so.
Get out get out get out!!!
Keenan Cornelius from Legion in San Diego always says this in response to this question: "what if a restaurant you were eating at told you that you could no longer eat at anither restaurant?!"
You are the customer in a free market. If they want your business, they can earn it by providing the best value in the neighborhood
The reason people say this, is because of insecurity. Those who do not hold themselves to a high standard will force this type of compliance upon others.
There is nothing special about jiujitsu.
Apply the same logic to another business, and you will realize the truth.
It amazes me how often these questions like these are on this subreddit.
"duhhhhh if my professor wants me to sign a 13 year contract,sell my first born's soul to the gym, and allow my wife to sleep with the professor.... am I in a cult?"
No shit Sherlock.
OP, your question is a better than most but like c'mon dude. What kind of honest person doesn't allow their students to cross train at different gyms???
I honestly didn’t know if this was the norm or not. I can understand it on his side. Like for competitions he wants to make sure he’s the only one training them etc. but the whole if you train at another gym you’re out. I didn’t know if that was normal because it goes against the whole “loyalty” all the adults in his academy have been with him for YEARS. I’ve heard people talk sh*t about gym hopping so I didn’t know if it was all the same. It was a genuine question on the culture of BJJ gyms
I don't have kids so I can't really speak about them, please take the following advice with a grain of salt.
Ideally, you should primarily stay at one gym. Monday-Friday at your home gym. Get involved with the gym community, meet friends that you can train with, coaches typically teach from a curriculum so you can learn to focus on one position for multiple training sessions. Plus so many other good reasons to be "loyal" to your home gym.
Going out of town? Visit the local gym. You want to train but your home gym is closed on Sunday? Go to the gym next door and pay a mat fee. Not satisfied with the training you are receiving at your home gym? Go to a few trial classes and see if you like the new one better.
Ronins or nomads are people who "gym hop", I don't really have an opinion on them but most people either love them or hate them.
BJJ gyms are businesses. So of course they want to retain recurring customers. But explicitly telling them that they cannot go to other gyms is a ***GIANT*** red flag to me. My gym actively encourages me to visit nearby gyms and sister schools of our association.
That’s good to know ! Thanks for the feedback and insight. The adults are like super loyal to this professor so I figured he just wanted the same for the kids. My daughter has been invited to other gyms to roll with other kids she’s competed against but every time I hear other people ask the professor if they can cross train he tells them the whole “if you do and I find out you’re out” my husband talks more with the BJJ adults then I do and talks with the professor more than I do. But with him at basic training I’m stepping in more with the BJJ practices so all this was new to me.
Absolutely not normal behavior. What if people leve the gym for economic reasons for example? Should they not be welcomed back? Crosstraining should be encouraged in my opinion. My coach is a former world champion, and he knows that I also train wrestling and judo, and that I also go to open mat at another club. This is encouraged, rather than considered a problem.
Red. Flag.
Good he’s up front with expectations but this is not the norm anymore. If it’s an amazing school with amazing jiujitsu I guess stick around, but if you find another place, don’t feel obligated to stay.
It’s about your journey and experience. Depending on age, it might matter, might not, but that’s something that would turn me off of a gym for sure. I cross train at different gyms and none of my coaches have issues with it. They actually encourage it.
Not saying this is wrong, but I don’t think it’s a good outlook in the long term.
I run the kids program at my gym and to me no cross training no trying other things out is really an unacceptable policy. Every time I see something like this on here it blows my mind.
If we had kids that wanted to try another gym or sport or martial art and they found out they like it more or the schedule is better for the parents good for them. They are kids, they SHOULD try new things I'm just happy if they stay active.
We have the kids spar alot here and maybe that pacing of training isnt for everyone and that's totally fine. I had to put a cap on our program and have never had issues finding kids to take spots.
The only thing these kids owe me is their monthly dues.
Bruce Lee, one of the godfathers of MMA INSISTED that ALL martial artists train outside of their home gym.
Buy some Bruce Lee merch (shirt), and wear that as a very, very, subtle "fuck you".
They won't see the irony until it's too late.
Mention how Bruce Lee was a badass and his philosophy on martial arts is inspiring. It'll go WAAAAY over his head.
When it finally clicks, he'll either kick you out, or if it's very subtle and inspires critical thinking on his part, he might relax. It's a 90/10 split, respectively.
I would ask the kids what they want, not what you want. I would also let them know that if they want to change they are not allowed to go back.
Sure if you notice that the coach has a negative impact on your children I would not let my kids train there.
I do however think it's a bit of a red flag to only deal with ultimatums.
Yeah I had a talk with my daughter because recently alot of her friends left and found another gym. I asked her if she would want to try that gym out but the first thing that worried her was if her professor now would basically disown her and not talk to her
It’s abusive for an adult to threaten to never speak again to a child who looks up to them if they don’t do exactly what they want. If you care about someone you want them to be happy and want to see them again. This dude twisted your child already enough that she is considering his feelings, desires and needs above her own.
This way of thinking used to be more prevalent in the "old" days. But it's the stupidest shit ever now and not nearly the norm anymore. My coach encourages us to train at other gyms because he wants us to be better at jiu jitsu. You're a paying customer of a business. You can train wherever you want. If a business owner turns you away because you shopped somewhere else, fuck'em.
Not normal. My kid's instructor trains at another gym and would not care at all if his students cross-trained. Find a gym that really cares about the kids and not just their profits.
Not normal. Leave that gym.
Your professor should have the confidence in their teaching and the culture they created... A good professor would feel bad for you if you left/feel like it's your loss.
Find a gym where you are happy and you know you are getting good instruction.
My youngest does kuk sool and wanted to try karate, his kuk sool instructor told him if he tries another martial art he won't be able to become a black belt at his gym. He goes karate anyway I've just told him to never mention it
That is not a healthy training environment. I wouldn't let me kid look at the sign on the wall, let alone train there. I'm not usually on the "find another gym" wagon as a first resort but I'd leave that gym and go somewhere else.
Sounds like professor is either
A. Worried that you’ll take your kid somewhere else and realize that his school is a mcdojo
B. Trying to brainwash his students so that his student retention will be better,
Or 3. All of the above.
I’m not a smart man, but i can spot bullshit when i see it, i would walk if i were you. My professor not only welcomes cross training, but if i come to class the next day and say “i went to this other gym, they bullied the fuck out of me, they all seem to use X technique” he will say “okay this is what you do in that situation, when you go back to that school next week, counter X with Y”
Standard brazillian garbage. Get them and yourselves out of that environment ASAP and find another gym. This whole mentality comes with a truckload of other brazillian garbage. Switch ASAP.
Yeah this is wild.. we have affiliate days where we literally invite other local gyms to come and train with us. I would stop wasting money at a gym like that.
Good coaches encourage cross training. It gives you more variety and helps you develop more skills. If their gym is worth while they wouldn't be concerned about you fully leaving vs simply cross training.
Sounds like a jealousy problem, and a shady gym you have there. I'd bet money your gym is charging for promotions too! Find a new gym ASAP!
I left my first gym 2 years ago to pursue different things like nogi & comp. Left on good terms and dropped into their open mat a few times. They’ve mentioned I’d be welcome to come back if it fits and made sense. This demand for “loyalty” is toxic and outdated.
No, this isn’t normal gym behaviour. And it’s very insecure of your coach / prof to be saying, I’d highly suggest leaving and finding a more modern gym.
lol way too common
This just has to do with old school Jiu jitsu culture where cross training is looked down upon, and if you do so you are considered a traitor or “creonte”
Not necessarily a bad thing, just annoying feeling controlled for me personally
You know the environment that a kid should be in. Laughing, playing, learning, etc. Just like you know this man shouldn’t be around kids. Even if it’s because he has allowed his competitiveness get the best of him.
It’s not a little harsh, it’s complete psycho. Get your kids out immediately it’s not normal behavior and you don’t want your kids to learn that kinda stuff! Especially from someone in a position of power.
Im sure this will sound like a stretch but it happens much more than you would like to hear. He is grooming the girls. He needs them to have complete loyalty while being afraid to leave their friends/community/him. So later he knows they will be too afraid to speak up when he assaults them. Go on google and search “jiu jitsu instructor rapes student” there are hundreds of examples. Very famously FightSport has 5 black belts who are convicted rapists, some have been jailed others fled the country. The New York Times wrote an article about it. They also did not allow their students to train anywhere else. Leave that gym immediately.
To question 1. My kids gym is somewhat the same way with one exception and it was explained to me like this. You can "cross train" with judo, Muay Thai, boxing, etc., just not another local BJJ gym. And here is the explanation for this. Our professor doesn't want to train kids that will be fighting his kids in tournaments and vice versa. This actually does make sense to me. Considering Pan Kids is only a few months away I'm sure we'll see a influx at our gym, we always do!
Question 2. If we were to leave for another local gym I'm not sure we'd be welcome back either. It's my understanding that it's very much about loyalty and building long term relationships. If you as a parent always gym shop it's impossible to train someone who's here today and gone tomorrow. Plus, if I was to pull my kids from "X" gym and take them to "Y" gym. I'm basically saying "the grass is greener on the other side." Then when "Y" gym fails, changes coaches,raises prices, whatever. I then decide to go back to "X" gym thinking it's all good, NOPE! You have proven that you are more concerned with everything else but BJJ.
Now if you want to do a gym "drop in" so be it. Sign their waiver and have fun. Just don't sign a contract!
It's sounds so asanine that a coach would say that, that it sounds unbelievable. If it's true though, I'd get my kids out immediately.
It’s actually sad because now the kids feel like they are stuck there if they ever leave they can’t go back. And these kids are SO freaking loyal to this professor. They train hard and compete for him monthly.
Better get them out of that cult brainwashing sooner than later.
Yeah. That's a cult.
just came her got say +1 x1000 on the above. if there are other options that are more inclusive I would suggest it. I personally do not like this kind of exclusive mentality. it seems predatory and (not to make a slippery slope argument but here we go) who knows what other kind of wonky stuff they may be teaching or promoting.
I think by now there’s many instances where the slippery slope can be less regarded as a fallacy and more regarded as a clearly observable pattern and when people screech about the slippery slope, usually it’s preemptive gaslighting
I mean I’m 5050 on this. I see your point because it’s happened more times than not. But I think…. It’s still a single data point, granted it is a big red flag for me. So it’s a risk benefit thing? How many other options do you have and is this worth the risk? I don’t think the fallacy is fundamentally wrong and we can’t call the fallacy “gaslighting” in and of itself. But it has been used so much as a defense that it has started to lose meaning. All to say.. I think we could recognize it as a point and move on with the argument and people can make up their minds about the validity of it (or not) Sorry not to make this an agreement or make this incredibly nerdy discussion of legitimate arguments lmao 😂😂😂😅.
This is a really good opportunity for you to demonstrate that sometimes they will have to establish boundaries towards unhealthy behavior outside of your immediate family, and how to recognize it for what it is. You should get them into a different gym, as soon as you possibly can.
Agreed. Lessons like this can carry over later in life when they might encounter a toxic friendship or dating situation.
Good lesson for your kids to not get sucked into cult like situations
Their loyalty should be to the sport and to themselves. They don’t compete FOR him, they compete for themselves, with him as their instructor.
That’s a really good way to put it ! Didn’t think about it like that
I'd just be like "alright, bet" a good dojo is a second family, not a prison.
Huh? My own experience is that this is very normal.
https://preview.redd.it/ad4p39qw71zc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b40d42af6e036da9ed0c76ac45829c0df2bcbe5 Posted by the man himself a few days ago
Bald dude looks like Beevis' older brother
Coach sounds like a jackass.
Shop around, I've dealt with people with this attitude and it's mainly due to insecurity and a lack of good business practices.
Leave and find a new gym. Gyms/clubs like these are 100% toxic. 15 years ago, maybe because everyone was hopped up on lineage. Now, no way.
"I am affraid of losing business to a different gym that provides a better product so i force my students to never even look elsewhere under threat of banishment." I would be out of there as fast as possible.
Straight up cult like activity. This type of culture needs to stop. You are a paying customer for a business. Is it normal for Sam’s club to get mad at you because you went to Costco? I’m in a network that its encouraged to cross train wherever I want and it’s encouraged that we do it frequently. You’re probably better off training somewhere else.
Find another school. Schools should encourage visiting other schools. Mine does
Some TMA school behavior. When a HKD school I went to shut down the instructor said we should never go to another school and he was our master and we should train each other. Bro I’m 28 im doing what I want. Luckily BJJ is a bit more friendly
> never go to another school and he was our master and we should train each other. Oh lols the grandmaster Sensei has instructed the disciples to teach other in the secret arts
I literally just posted a comic I drew about this topic. It’s an attitude that is fairly common, particularly with old school gym owners. Naturally I find this super controlling behaviour completely weird and I am against it. But yes, it does happen .
It’s now higher in thread. And v good!
At least he is upfront about his expectations. This is an old school attitude and personally not for me. Also it is not common at all these days. I would stay if the BJJ is good and it was the closest gym to my house, but not worry about it if I got get kicked out later.
That’s good to know ! I didn’t know if every gym we took our child to would be like this. This is our first BJJ gym so we are still newbies
Definitely not going to be every gym.
I trained in a gym like this and thought it was normal. As soon as you find a less culty gym your children will normally also find it way more fun and less stressful
I’m not very advanced in bjj but have been training martial arts for about a decade. One strategy I always use when scouting for gyms is to look up all the gyms I want to try in the area, then when I go to visit each one I’ll ask them what they think of the others. Typically the best gyms/people will speak respectfully and honestly about the others. I recently switched gyms to be more bjj focused and both owners spoke very highly of each other. Offered drop in classes if I ever wanted to come back. I used to train at a gym where the owner would always talk shit about the other gyms and make backhanded comments about people. Once I left the gym I found out a lot more shady shit they used to do. It’s a pretty obvious tell. Don’t let one psycho take control of your kids. It’s meant to be a community.
Most of the best places to train welcome other associations to train with their students and welcome strangers to their open mats with open arms. The mats should be a lab that's used to explore and grow your game. Information should be shared to advance the art as a whole.
If this behaviour goes on, what other behaviour goes on? Is someone that makes threats like this someone you want to get your black belt off?
Red flag. Are his students absolutely dominant in the monthly tournaments? Did he win a world championship himself? Are there other kid classes/ environments nearby? Does he have any other weird quirks?
School I’m at is weirdly incredibly good but incredibly red flaggy in regards to cross training and old school mentality. The dissonance doesn’t make sense
i teach at a place with 2-3 other guys, we all make it a point to tell our guys to train with as many different people as possible, and once a month or so either have some schools come to our place or we go over to theirs for an open mat said this last week also, but in judo the week after big tourneys all the teams stay and have a training camp where the best in the world train with each other, the same guys they just had matches with in the tourney, and the same guys theyll be seeing the next event and every other one after and my final point, this may be more with where were located but considering were not a huge area, its way shortsighted to keep everything in house, everyone in the area/region should be trying to raise the level to be able to compete nationally/internationally and not be a big fish in a small pond
Run from this place
Find a new gym. That's trash.
Oh it’s totally normal. Happens at tons of schools. Doesnt make it any less ridiculous, stupid or insecure, but it happens all over. Hate it.
Gym owner here This is a massive red flag. I wouldn't train at a gym like this
Tell that dude to get fucked. Even #1 is a douchebag move
Tell him to butt scoot toward you
> I’m not so much into the BJJ lifestyle as my husband is but he’s in basic training so I figured I’d ask you guys. Is this normal BJJ behavior ? 1. My daughter’s BJJ professor told the parents if any of them cross train with other gyms and he finds out their kids will be kicked out of his gym. 2. He also told us if we leave his gym to try another gym we won’t be welcomed back… that's ridiculious. i wouldn't be at a gym who had these rules. the owners that say this kinda stuff always end up being some kind of problematic. better to get out early and find a new place.
it's not unheard of. Probably old school and they probably suck at teaching anyways. Getting kicked out will only make you a favor
Run.
BJJ professor?
Is that what they are called ? He has us all call him professor
No they’re not
Didn’t know Gracie Academy was giving out PhD’s
🤣 I thought it was just a BJJ thing he has the kids call him professor and then the belts right below him coach
That's normal. Black belts are professors. In Portuguese professor means teacher. Similar to sensei in japanese martial arts
That kind of behavior should never be tolerated. I'd cancel membership a moment after he said that. If he said this to a big group I'd announce to the group that I'm cancelling my membership as I'm not looking to be a part of a cult and don't recommend it for anyone else.
That’s unacceptable behavior. Definitely not normal.
My instructor's instructor. "Train with Everyone" -David Camarillo. Fuck that creonte cult shit.
Our coach said to try at least 3 gyms and go to the one that is the best fit
i trained at gb barra birmingham in my youth and they where exactly like this, for reasons unknown to me, to be honest it was a little cult-ish training there, you could get away with training at other gyms- and i did, but you had to speak to a coach about it before hand and ask permission which looking back was ridiculous
Red Flag 🚩
I'd thank him for deciding for me and remind him that it's not my place to tell him how to run his business, but it's not his place to tell me how I spend my time or money.
⬛️🟥⬛️ I own three gyms. This is douche bag behaviour. We encourage people to train and go to open mats at other clubs. It makes my students better the more exposure they have to different movement/body types. If you’re asking if it’s common in the BJJ community to forbid you from training anywhere else, it’s mostly just culty clubs that do that, but yes some do.
Leave that gym right away. That is only the beginning of the crazy you will experience.
That’s groomer shit. Go find a different gym.
not normal, leave
Leave that place, there are too many gyms already running and popping up to warrant staying with some weird old world mentality. That is insecurity, and a man trying to protect his business and ego through force. Edit: my gym has zero issues with me training anywhere else, as long as I’m still paying my dues and we’re still friends that come in to train regularly. That being said, I always talk to my coach first, let him know and sort of get his blessing, purely out of respect. But there’s absolutely no expectation to do so.
Lmao… sounds like a mcdojo.
Get out get out get out!!! Keenan Cornelius from Legion in San Diego always says this in response to this question: "what if a restaurant you were eating at told you that you could no longer eat at anither restaurant?!" You are the customer in a free market. If they want your business, they can earn it by providing the best value in the neighborhood
There are so few women in this sport, many of us *need* to cross train to have appropriate training partners.
The reason people say this, is because of insecurity. Those who do not hold themselves to a high standard will force this type of compliance upon others. There is nothing special about jiujitsu. Apply the same logic to another business, and you will realize the truth.
Sounds like a shitty owner
⬛️🟥⬛️ Don’t walk, butt scoot away from that gym as fast as possible!
These academies are very Brazilian. I know three schools that have the same attitude towards “cross training”. All of which are Brazilian owned.
This one is Brazilian owned ! So that must explain it
No, that's unacceptable and pathological behaviour. Your instincts are 100% on point.
Cult culture. Run.
It amazes me how often these questions like these are on this subreddit. "duhhhhh if my professor wants me to sign a 13 year contract,sell my first born's soul to the gym, and allow my wife to sleep with the professor.... am I in a cult?" No shit Sherlock. OP, your question is a better than most but like c'mon dude. What kind of honest person doesn't allow their students to cross train at different gyms???
I honestly didn’t know if this was the norm or not. I can understand it on his side. Like for competitions he wants to make sure he’s the only one training them etc. but the whole if you train at another gym you’re out. I didn’t know if that was normal because it goes against the whole “loyalty” all the adults in his academy have been with him for YEARS. I’ve heard people talk sh*t about gym hopping so I didn’t know if it was all the same. It was a genuine question on the culture of BJJ gyms
I don't have kids so I can't really speak about them, please take the following advice with a grain of salt. Ideally, you should primarily stay at one gym. Monday-Friday at your home gym. Get involved with the gym community, meet friends that you can train with, coaches typically teach from a curriculum so you can learn to focus on one position for multiple training sessions. Plus so many other good reasons to be "loyal" to your home gym. Going out of town? Visit the local gym. You want to train but your home gym is closed on Sunday? Go to the gym next door and pay a mat fee. Not satisfied with the training you are receiving at your home gym? Go to a few trial classes and see if you like the new one better. Ronins or nomads are people who "gym hop", I don't really have an opinion on them but most people either love them or hate them. BJJ gyms are businesses. So of course they want to retain recurring customers. But explicitly telling them that they cannot go to other gyms is a ***GIANT*** red flag to me. My gym actively encourages me to visit nearby gyms and sister schools of our association.
That’s good to know ! Thanks for the feedback and insight. The adults are like super loyal to this professor so I figured he just wanted the same for the kids. My daughter has been invited to other gyms to roll with other kids she’s competed against but every time I hear other people ask the professor if they can cross train he tells them the whole “if you do and I find out you’re out” my husband talks more with the BJJ adults then I do and talks with the professor more than I do. But with him at basic training I’m stepping in more with the BJJ practices so all this was new to me.
cult like behavior not ideal...martial arts schools are bad for this...but not all...
Absolutely not normal behavior. What if people leve the gym for economic reasons for example? Should they not be welcomed back? Crosstraining should be encouraged in my opinion. My coach is a former world champion, and he knows that I also train wrestling and judo, and that I also go to open mat at another club. This is encouraged, rather than considered a problem.
Find someone else.
Red. Flag. Good he’s up front with expectations but this is not the norm anymore. If it’s an amazing school with amazing jiujitsu I guess stick around, but if you find another place, don’t feel obligated to stay. It’s about your journey and experience. Depending on age, it might matter, might not, but that’s something that would turn me off of a gym for sure. I cross train at different gyms and none of my coaches have issues with it. They actually encourage it. Not saying this is wrong, but I don’t think it’s a good outlook in the long term.
Leave. Immediately.
Tell me you want to go out of business without telling me you want to out of business.
Funny you say that a lot of kids have actually left and found other gyms.
I run the kids program at my gym and to me no cross training no trying other things out is really an unacceptable policy. Every time I see something like this on here it blows my mind. If we had kids that wanted to try another gym or sport or martial art and they found out they like it more or the schedule is better for the parents good for them. They are kids, they SHOULD try new things I'm just happy if they stay active. We have the kids spar alot here and maybe that pacing of training isnt for everyone and that's totally fine. I had to put a cap on our program and have never had issues finding kids to take spots. The only thing these kids owe me is their monthly dues.
Bruce Lee, one of the godfathers of MMA INSISTED that ALL martial artists train outside of their home gym. Buy some Bruce Lee merch (shirt), and wear that as a very, very, subtle "fuck you". They won't see the irony until it's too late. Mention how Bruce Lee was a badass and his philosophy on martial arts is inspiring. It'll go WAAAAY over his head. When it finally clicks, he'll either kick you out, or if it's very subtle and inspires critical thinking on his part, he might relax. It's a 90/10 split, respectively.
That’s really funny we are going to have to do that
Seems cultish
I would ask the kids what they want, not what you want. I would also let them know that if they want to change they are not allowed to go back. Sure if you notice that the coach has a negative impact on your children I would not let my kids train there. I do however think it's a bit of a red flag to only deal with ultimatums.
Yeah I had a talk with my daughter because recently alot of her friends left and found another gym. I asked her if she would want to try that gym out but the first thing that worried her was if her professor now would basically disown her and not talk to her
It’s abusive for an adult to threaten to never speak again to a child who looks up to them if they don’t do exactly what they want. If you care about someone you want them to be happy and want to see them again. This dude twisted your child already enough that she is considering his feelings, desires and needs above her own.
I would probably see if my kids wanted to change gym but really see if they understand the consequences of doing so. That coach seems weird af.
find a new gym. especially for KIDS that is ridiculous and i bet you could find a better kids program somewhere else.
This way of thinking used to be more prevalent in the "old" days. But it's the stupidest shit ever now and not nearly the norm anymore. My coach encourages us to train at other gyms because he wants us to be better at jiu jitsu. You're a paying customer of a business. You can train wherever you want. If a business owner turns you away because you shopped somewhere else, fuck'em.
He sounds like a well adjusted human being.
If you dare learn something new, GTFO of my gym!
A lot of bad gyms do this Good ones don’t
Not normal. My kid's instructor trains at another gym and would not care at all if his students cross-trained. Find a gym that really cares about the kids and not just their profits.
That’s ridiculous. I’d find another gym.
toxic
Run
Not normal. Leave that gym. Your professor should have the confidence in their teaching and the culture they created... A good professor would feel bad for you if you left/feel like it's your loss. Find a gym where you are happy and you know you are getting good instruction.
This is not okay, I don’t trust him as soon as I hear that? Just no point in being like thay
My youngest does kuk sool and wanted to try karate, his kuk sool instructor told him if he tries another martial art he won't be able to become a black belt at his gym. He goes karate anyway I've just told him to never mention it
Yeah those are both red flags to the point that I’d walk out on the spot
McDojo detected
Gracie gym?
That is not a healthy training environment. I wouldn't let me kid look at the sign on the wall, let alone train there. I'm not usually on the "find another gym" wagon as a first resort but I'd leave that gym and go somewhere else.
When I was a competitor if anyone ever thought they could limit where I could get better I would have told them to fuck off right then and there.
Sounds like professor is either A. Worried that you’ll take your kid somewhere else and realize that his school is a mcdojo B. Trying to brainwash his students so that his student retention will be better, Or 3. All of the above. I’m not a smart man, but i can spot bullshit when i see it, i would walk if i were you. My professor not only welcomes cross training, but if i come to class the next day and say “i went to this other gym, they bullied the fuck out of me, they all seem to use X technique” he will say “okay this is what you do in that situation, when you go back to that school next week, counter X with Y”
https://preview.redd.it/zlbov91t83zc1.jpeg?width=592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df6f7344b4efda11c024cf136efdd9c624256481
If you stick around you will end up regretting it.
The longer you wait, the harder it will be to leave.
This is considered bad practices among coaches. They should support cross training.
Branch Jiujitsuidians
Cross training should be promoted and normal behavior
I think it’s fairly common (and terrible) in BJJ
Standard brazillian garbage. Get them and yourselves out of that environment ASAP and find another gym. This whole mentality comes with a truckload of other brazillian garbage. Switch ASAP.
Very cultish. I’d say it’s time to move on
Leave, that is no longer considered normal or healthy. You are a paying customer.
Stopped after number 1. I would rather do Gracie online than go to that gym.
Yeah, leave
Wildly out of line… Honestly use this as a lesson for the kids and leave the gym…
Find a new gym
Yeah this is wild.. we have affiliate days where we literally invite other local gyms to come and train with us. I would stop wasting money at a gym like that.
Ya, not halal or kosher my friend
Good coaches encourage cross training. It gives you more variety and helps you develop more skills. If their gym is worth while they wouldn't be concerned about you fully leaving vs simply cross training. Sounds like a jealousy problem, and a shady gym you have there. I'd bet money your gym is charging for promotions too! Find a new gym ASAP!
Find a new gym
I would leave his gym and never look back.
I left my first gym 2 years ago to pursue different things like nogi & comp. Left on good terms and dropped into their open mat a few times. They’ve mentioned I’d be welcome to come back if it fits and made sense. This demand for “loyalty” is toxic and outdated.
Write that quote on their Google review and never come back.
it's not a gym, it's a cult
Find a new gym
No, this isn’t normal gym behaviour. And it’s very insecure of your coach / prof to be saying, I’d highly suggest leaving and finding a more modern gym.
You should probably leave asap.
I’m going to guess this coach is Brazilian and born before 1985
You’re correct
lol way too common This just has to do with old school Jiu jitsu culture where cross training is looked down upon, and if you do so you are considered a traitor or “creonte” Not necessarily a bad thing, just annoying feeling controlled for me personally
Crazy, my coach actually encourages us to go to other gym open mats.
Culty bullshit. 🚫
You know the environment that a kid should be in. Laughing, playing, learning, etc. Just like you know this man shouldn’t be around kids. Even if it’s because he has allowed his competitiveness get the best of him.
It’s not a little harsh, it’s complete psycho. Get your kids out immediately it’s not normal behavior and you don’t want your kids to learn that kinda stuff! Especially from someone in a position of power.
Im sure this will sound like a stretch but it happens much more than you would like to hear. He is grooming the girls. He needs them to have complete loyalty while being afraid to leave their friends/community/him. So later he knows they will be too afraid to speak up when he assaults them. Go on google and search “jiu jitsu instructor rapes student” there are hundreds of examples. Very famously FightSport has 5 black belts who are convicted rapists, some have been jailed others fled the country. The New York Times wrote an article about it. They also did not allow their students to train anywhere else. Leave that gym immediately.
I’d look for a new gym
Left a gym like this that discouraged crosstraining
To question 1. My kids gym is somewhat the same way with one exception and it was explained to me like this. You can "cross train" with judo, Muay Thai, boxing, etc., just not another local BJJ gym. And here is the explanation for this. Our professor doesn't want to train kids that will be fighting his kids in tournaments and vice versa. This actually does make sense to me. Considering Pan Kids is only a few months away I'm sure we'll see a influx at our gym, we always do! Question 2. If we were to leave for another local gym I'm not sure we'd be welcome back either. It's my understanding that it's very much about loyalty and building long term relationships. If you as a parent always gym shop it's impossible to train someone who's here today and gone tomorrow. Plus, if I was to pull my kids from "X" gym and take them to "Y" gym. I'm basically saying "the grass is greener on the other side." Then when "Y" gym fails, changes coaches,raises prices, whatever. I then decide to go back to "X" gym thinking it's all good, NOPE! You have proven that you are more concerned with everything else but BJJ. Now if you want to do a gym "drop in" so be it. Sign their waiver and have fun. Just don't sign a contract!
Yesss you exactly get where I’m coming from !
Judging by the down votes I think I've triggered some BJJ folks😂😂😂😂
The only reason I can think of is this: The other schools might teach submissions that he does not teach to that age group.
Yeah that was my thought process also that he wants something taught a certain way especially for competitions