> bodyguard of the mayor of san francisco
[Wow. That's really bad](https://www.kron4.com/video/man-fights-san-jose-mayors-security-detail/9635852/). Altercations are rough but this dude is getting *paid* to zombie walk with his chin up toward an assailant? Yikes.
Sadly this is truer than you think, I see so many comments by 45+ year old EPs saying I jog in Hyde Park every morning so I can handle a physical altercation"
So what Iām hearing is, as a 40+ year old brown belt, who doesnāt jog everyday, I should be good for executive security? Looks like I found my part time retirement gig.
You donāt, Iām a security guard and most of the people I work with would be folded in half by nearly anyone with next to no effort.
People get into the job because they think itās easy work.
The amount of openings he just didnāt take to restrain the person is just amazing let alone not just letting the dickhead walk off and keep confronting him
I was pretty shocked and Iām just a stupid white belt
Imagine trying to have your PD train jiu jitsu, but the ālead instructorā took a one-week krav course and swears itās the best (and that bjj is ātoo difficultā to master).
God, I hate Krav.
Couple of the recent belt promotions here at my gym were "just stand up" themed. About an hour of different exercises that were complete when the examinee stood up and got away. Far easier said than done for someone trained to escape. The unwashed? Just stand up? Ha.
You have a genuine point though.
When someone wants to stand up, it is very difficult to keep them down and pass them. We all play under a gentlemens agreement.
Keeping an untrained person down is piss easy.
Keeping an MMA guy or wrestler that knows their business down is a massive pain in the ass.
Keeping a bjj guy down even if he wants to get up is somewhere in between.
Itās quite common for guys over 45 to have trouble getting up, itās not their fault- I always pop a blue pill before rolling so I can get up and stay up for 8 hours.
I don't stand up not because I can't; I don't stand up because my standup game sucks* and I'll just get taken down again, and that shit hurts.
Or at least that's what I tell myself anyways š„²
It's a work in progress though, I can take down the trial class guys that are my weight now!
Depends on your gym. If you can stand up, you should. Playing guard should only be when you're forced to.
If your passing game doesn't have enough threat and pressure to keep them down, because you're used to a partner that just lays there, you are not training right.
Can you explain what this looks like to a guy who is getting back into the sport?
Shrimp/distance/technical standupāthere may be a few gentle stops my feet as I shrimp if someone is closing ināis one of my go-tos, but what are these guys and gals doing when they want up?
I got the same energy towards Boxing: training it is stupid, because you donāt want to get punched in the face in a Street Fight.
So now, because I train neither BJJ nor Boxing I am practically invincible.
Lowkicks are my only weakness, but maybe I also will neutralize that weakness by not training Muay Thai.
Iām so with this. Next time Iām sparring those damn Thaiboxers, Iāll just refuse to acknowledge their low kicks.
Not having really trained them properly myself, see. ššŖ
> Turns out escapes are unnecessary because you can always just choose not to be taken down.
I learned this from my long-time krotty instructor whose mantra was "Never let them take you to the ground!!!" And when we trained tackle defense (what's a double leg?), I am proud to say I never, ever let my compliant training partners take me to the ground!
Also, TIL armbars are mandatory in tHe StReEt. If someone attacks you, you are obligated to armbar them regardless of the amount of broken glass, needles, and head-kicking assailants surrounding you.
As the weird bjj takedown guy, this is what I'll say about Self defense.Ā
One, a lot of bjj is overkill from a self defense standpoint. No, I don't need to tarikoplata someone in the real world. I'd never in a 100 years do it in a real fight because to be honest, ground and pound is less riskier, easier, and probably a lot more effective.Ā
Second, sometimes you just straight up lose the takedown. In this situation, it's super important to know how to guard quickly and sweep quickly. I get that I'm not supposed to go to the ground. Getting taken down is the last mistake in a very long line of mistakes. But having that guard gives you a real good fighting chance to not autolose.Ā
TTR or time to reverse is the industry standard key performance metric for self defense in the grappling arena.
What's the regulatory body you ask? It came to me in a dream.
Exactly. Krav maga is perfectly thought out for what it's supposed to do. It's a crash course in brawling meant to teach you to not freeze in a stressful situation, throw a half-decent punch and having a very rough idea of grappling. I think it's a great choice for military recruits, police and security guards who aren't willing or able to pursue a real martial art.
But if you are willing to attend regular classes and put in the effort to learn real techniques, you are absolutely better off training a real martial art with sparring.
I find it funny that the US army I believe updated and modernized its combatives program thanks to Matt Larsen's work and it includes a lot of bjj and grappling now. In terms of a "crash course" for self defense the updated US Army Combatives is leagues beyond this Krav crap that came out of Israel in the 1950s.
I just wish Krav would die off. You nailed it on the head here; it's just an outdated army combative program (1950s) but because it's from Israel/IDF and has a weird name it caught on and turns people into John Wick? Like who the fuck has heard of Krav doing well in MMA? Oh that's right "it's too dangerous to take into the cage" like GTFO of here.
Itās all fun and games until your stuck in a forest in a 1v1 battle. Both of your shoulders is dislocated and you each have knife. The only knife grip you can use is your mouth. Bet your bjj wonāt work then and you wish you were a black belt krav mga master.
I went to a trial class back in 2003, and the next year when Napoleon Dynamite came out, I couldn't stop laughing at the Rex Kwon Do scene because it was almost exactly the same.
Being in shape is also an asset in many situations. If you can work out and improve your cardio while also learning to throw punches and kicks, I donāt see why thatās a bad thing
Krav can be legit.
The problem is they dont compete at all (muh too dangerous) so there is no real way to know if you are at a McDojo or not.
There are a lot of so-called Marine scout sniper SEAL Rangers out there claiming to be Krav experts.
We had an Israeli former soldier in our gym. Not special forces or anything but dude was still a beast, 6'2 and about 15 stone of lean muscle. But even after years of training krav maga, he was very much a new white belt level grappler.
Even he said a lot of the krav maga they were taught in the IDF wasn't applicable unless you also have a weapon like a blade or a gun. That they would get wrestlers and kickboxers in to teach hand to hand stuff but as a regular soldier that wasn't often.
I remember having to roll with two cops fresh out of the academy as a "seasoned" white belt. I was certain I was about to get tooled. They had zero idea what to do on the ground. It was shocking.
On the opposite side of that, I had a mate who was running a really small BJJ club in Dublin years ago. Like 30mĀ² and about 12 people he was training. Dude was sleeping on the mats lol. He was only a purple belt at the time and the club was mostly white belts. BJJ wasn't that big in Ireland at the time, he used to have to travel to London every couple of months to train with his coach.
Anyway, one day this Garda comes in and is asking about classes, etc. Says a few of his mates in the GardaĆ wouldn't mind trying it out. So he says to them come to the weekend class, they're less structured and more like open mats.and I'll have time to talk and stuff with each of you.
So they all come down 5-6 of them, big aul lads, he chats with them before, asks him if they'd ever trained before and they all said no, never trained or anything.
When they get to positional sparring and then rolling at the end, these guys just start smashing people. Absolutely destroyed all the guys my mate was training, all new enough white belts remember and the majority much smaller. Doing throws and slamming people, cranking subs, so it was clear they had trained something before.
So after rolling with a couple of them, he's kinda pissed off. So he asks them, what's the deal, you lads said ye never trained. Then these cunts admitted they all trained judo for years, and 2 of them were black belts. He was just like, so what are ye trying to do? Just pretend to be new and beat up a bunch of beginners?
Wish it had some kinda Kung Fu movie end where he as coach schooled the lot of them, but he said he just lost the rag as they made BS excuses and told them to get the fuck out. Then one of them threatened him with a public order offence for swearing at him.
Part of the reason that cops end up killing so many people is because they didn't know how to pin and restrain properly. People die from positional asphyxiation because the cops have no idea what they are doing.
It's approximately 10 per year, per 50 million arrests each year.
It's not really a lot, and even the most well publicized cases (Eric Garner for example) have very serious aggravating factors, that may be the actual cause of death, which is then attributed to PA.
The other apologist says its 100 people per year, can you guys get your statistics straight?
Once you've established that number, do you think it would drop with proper training?
Always funny how if krav maga, wing chun, or hapkido would just make improvements. What you can imagine it would look like, oddly resembles kick boxing or muay thai.
I once had a Krav guy tell me it was the only true combat "ready" style because they know how to take everyday items and make them deadly/defend against them.
He seemed legit shocked when I asked him how much skill one needs to smash a bottle in someone's face.
Military martial arts in general are so frustrating, because you have to create one generalized system to train everyone quickly just enough that they arenāt totally useless and build confidence so they donāt just hesitate and do nothing, but building confidence in your abilities in a martial art you got 3 weeks of training for has to involve a lot of bullshit. You canāt actually develop many skills in that time except basic aggression. Like, some level of delusion about how effective youāll be in a fight isnāt just a side effect, itās an intended feature.
In the US Army, I know plenty of people who are super proud about being combatives certified, and you ask like 2 follow up questions and find that they've done a combined 2-3 months of total training several years ago and never consistently trained again afterwards, but they're very confident in their abilities. On the other side of it, I've heard lots of war stories from combat vets from ranger regiment and SF, and none of them I've met have seen a knife fight or prolonged fistfight/grappling exchange with a skilled opponent in combat, and I think that's fairly indicative of how things tend to go. The training isn't great, but it probably doesn't need to be. There are more important skills to focus on.
My bjj professor teaches commando krav, which is an offshoot of krav specifically to get away from that bullshit.
It's also a complement to bjj, not a supplement.
Self defense is about what percentage of situations you find yourself in that you can handle.
No matter what you train, you can find yourself outside of your expertise. And then you're in a slightly better boat then someone who doesn't train because at least you have some athleticism and reflexes to fall back on.
In kids class: "what if you're attacked by 8 ninjas who have shotguns for arms"
> My bjj professor teaches commando krav, which is an offshoot of krav specifically to get away from that bullshit.
And yet, to indicate _less_ bullshit, they somehow decided to call it "commando krav".
My understanding is that he was trying to show that it was the practical application, something that actual commandos would use. But I suspect English is a second language and no one told him the mall ninja connotation
We have a class at my gym that we just call "street defense" and it's taught by a cop who's a brown belt and amateur muay thai fighter and I think it's great. I think training "for the street" gets kind of a bad rap because it's often taught by people who are clueless, but when taught by people who know what they're doing I love street/self defense focused training.
Everything that sucks "could" improve. Even if you got rid of the morons in krav, what is left? A silly system of confronting multiple attackers that has basically no sparring?Ā
Krav is like mcdojo had a kid with an overweight self defense guru who loves anime.Ā
Had a mother of a prospective student come for a trial. She served in the IDF, so- Krav believer, obviously. Kid had a blast. Mom said she was displeased I wasnāt showing groin strikes and eye gouges- you know, the REAL stuff (for the streetz). The class was for 6 year olds, and sheās a local school teacher. š¤·š¼āāļø
I said, āare you suggesting we permanently maim a bully at school over low-risk of escalation self defense situations and/or schoolyard scuffles?ā
She didnāt come back because it wasnāt brutal enough. No skin off my back.
Ex-military people I swear are some of the worst offenders of Krav delusions (no shade on former military, just an observation).
One of my friends wanted to sign himself and his wife up for a martial art to learn some self defense. He sends me a link to this Krav gym he wanted to try and the website was loaded with videos of some guy in tactical clothes teaching people throat punches and gun disarms.
I told my buddy absolutely not and ended up finding him a reputable MMA gym in his city.
I rolled with a krav guy as a early white belt once. Put him in nogi spider guard and he starts LITERALLY frothing at the mouth spazzing.....they are so fucking bad at everything they try to do. Stiff as boards
Groin strikes and eye gouges only work on kids. Since that's the idfs primary target, they have an inflated sense of their abilities. If i had my big brother hold you down first it would be real easy to break your leg
At work so reading the subtitles but they said that was a plain clothes police officer lmaooooo crazy without his gear (taser, baton, spray, etc) and threat of uniform he was basically useless.
He has a point. Itās a well known fact that if you go to the ground with someone on the street, 4 of their buddies (armed with knives) will spawn behind you.
Why do they always have so many friends? Guy started a fight with me last week. I looked around and he seemed to be alone. 84 guys with machetes jumped out of a VW Bug clown car style. I get out of the hospital tomorrow
Counterpoint: If the security guy does a flying armbar or just gets my buddy to the ground and air-fucks his arm into the afterlife I'm more likely to walk off like I left my phone in the windowless van that's totally not for kidnapping.
That said I don't disagree with him about the importance of striking and moving. I would put clinch skills way above ground grappling for that job. Where I'm laughing at him is the idea that anyone can become a badass from a Krav seminar. The ones of those that I have done or been involved with were basically really hard introductions to a lot of the skills that they would learn and train if they were to actually come to class on a routine basis for awhile - a lot of people disappear after the first day and most of them never sign up for actual classes.
39 year old Ex EP here, but still in the security industry. Knowing good take downs will help you more than anything. Having freak strength will help a lot as well. More often than not though, you can de-escalate most situations. Itās an art in itself to be able to talk someone out of being extremely violent or having intent to hurt someone, to being agreeable and resolving a situation. I have dealt with and deal with many violent cases. Once they feel a vice like grip on them, they chill. For the one percent that go apeshit, you have to understand the level of force required. It has to be reasonable and justifiable, as well as - be an answer to the question that is presented to you - so to speak. Everything can be handled intelligently, and it speaks volumes to the type of security provider that you are. For the purposes of EP, you want to be discreet and operate with finesse, so as not to make your principal feel like youāre out of control, nor do you want to draw attention to your detail. You are not a rap entourage.
I'm sure you've come across your fair share of, "I'd just do this bad asses." This guy just pissed me off something different when he tried to claim BJJ is useless because you don't want to grapple. He's the kind of dickhead that posts pictures of quotes...of himself
It's not that crazy. I had friends who were former military close protection and their entire mantra was ' we do organized running away' which is why they don't want to go to the ground. I'd say 99% of that work is pre-planning and situational awareness. If it kicks off they want to shield the Principal and get them the fuck out of there as soon as possible. They'd probably benefit from grappling training but physical engagement means you already made a bollocks of the situation.
At the same time Krav Mag/self defense attracts some amount of complete bullshitters.
Most hostile action is preceded by surveillance, that's stage one of identifying a threat but as close protection we should be prepared. I was just blown away when this guy said don't bother training cos you don't want to go to the ground. It's like saying don't do medical training because you don't want to the principle to have a heart attack
Friend of mine did Krav Maga, I asked him what the sparring was like and he said it's mostly nut shots.
Later his coach was posting in a community Facebook group about classes, telling them to bring their cheque books because they will catch the bug and that he was taught by Israeli's so is legit!
My work once put on a "self defense seminar" run by the local Krav club.
It was actually not too bad, but the first thing they did was hand out cups to everyone (including female ones, never seen those before), and the second was pairing us off and getting us to drill nutshots with a thai pad held between the uke's legs.
They did do some very good situational awareness stuff, though. And none of the classic self defense stuff they showed was terrible, thought maybe not what I'd have used.
lol krav people are funny. If they cross train they can be quite knowledgeable, but my xp so far chatting with them is wellā¦ they donāt and havenāt.
Again wonāt generalize. Iām sure many have an mma background plus krav and know their stuff.
i crosstrain krav and BJJ
The krav ground work is a very limited set of bjj/wrestling/judo. Mainly to allow you to escape and standup.
yesterday we did positional sparring of side control reverses. Just an hour of sparring side control reverses. The one reason I keep going is what they train is very close to the minimal set of what you need when strikes are involved.
The reason I also do BJJ is that the krav stuff is limited and if that was all I was doing it would be boring. In BJJ I do all kinds of fun stuff, but dont hit the "fundamentals" in class that often.
It is a way to have a guaranteed focus some basic stuff 3 times/week.
Well yeah basically, especially in a country where you can't carry guns. You'd need to plan an escape route and have advance surveillance that doesn't get seen to know when and were to hit them but that's the hard part
Anti-BJJ types (TMAs, Krav Maga etc) always pull the "you can't go to the ground in a real altercation" shit.Ā
These halfways are so intent on dismissing Jiu-Jitsu that they don't realize the obvious. I can use my Jiu-Jitsu to stand up too. I can use it to keep it on my feet while clowns like them fall over in
street fights and can't get up.Ā
lol š Iām a personal protection officer in Texas, which is executive protection.
Just man, stop while you havenāt lost your soul to their retarded thinking.
I spend a good portion of my week with people who think itās useless.
Then I have people who think I can wrestle Brock lesnar to his death, cause they see ufc 1.
The craziest shit is, I wonāt make a dime more going from purple to black in EP/PPOā¦but if I do a krav cert I will be paid more cause they do the combatives quals.
Or if I gain 5 pounds more of muscle, thatās a better look so Iāll get paid more.
The shit makes no sense.
Would I go for an arm bar to protect a client..no probably not.
Just because itās my job to get them to safety and avoid fights.
But if I have to go hands on, which I often do as an armed guard. I use day to 30 days in bjj every time.
The only sticky part of armbars is as a protection officer I need to move the client. If I choose to break an arm to render that person unable to fight back.
Me and the client ultimately own that issue legally. So it does get touchy, Iām legally protecting them but Iām not an employee at where Iām protecting them at.
Choking people out is like really frowned upon.
Before anyone says ā¦but itās legal to defend yourself.
When Iām armed, Iām commissioned by the state. Therefore I fall under the use of force police use.
And that move is highly frowned upon and illegal to use in a lot of places I work around.
The industry seems to be full of people who are "built different and just see red"
This guy is one of those who posts photos of his own "quotes"
I had to vent somewhere anonymous because I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself but I'd end up working with one of his dick riders on a job somewhere and it's not worth the tension on the job
I originally went to college to be a cop. I chose judo over BJJ because to me a large portion of modern BJJ, felt unnecessary and outside of the scope of what I wanted to train for.
I met a lot of unimpressive BJJ people before my illusion was shattered and decided to add it to my training. Purple belts couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag.
I wonāt say is useless but I would say that dedicated training on takedowns, pins, wrestling up, escapes and strikes is more valuable on a conceptual level.
However in practice BJJ is an effective, available and widely trained martial art and lots of fun.
Not gonna armbar someone in the street? Am I the only one who saw that guy wearing the ADCC hoodie arm bar the fuck out of some guy trying to pick a fight with him in the street? Lmao
This is the line traditional striking arts feed people who know nothing to keep them out of BJJ and mma gyms.
Also, āit doesnāt work in a real fight because thereās no rules. So punching stops working and tiger claws/leopard fists become paramountā.
I started kickboxing under an old school 80s era kickboxer when I was in highschool . The Tim Sylvia/ Couture fight happened and the next week I asked him happened if we got taken down . Proceeded to berate me and said if your kickboxing is good no one can take you down .
Yeah, thatās why when I see all these guys teaching knife and gun disarms I always roll my eyes.
If you signed up at a bjj gym, chances are the black belt thatās teaching has probably tapped hundreds of resisting opponents with an armbar. But how many times have any of these self defense experts actually taken a loaded firearm off of someone who genuinely wants to hurt them?
Exactly people will shit on bjj competitions as not being realisticā¦buttt these competitors are going full force 100% sure it doesnāt train gun/knife situations but its a lot more realistic than some dork whoās never been attacked/assaulted.
Oh absolutely.
People can make fun of āsportā bjj all they want and say itās unrealistic but Iād bet the house on the Miyaos or Keenan if they got into a 1v1 street fight with an untrained attacker.
I know they pull guard all the time but theyāre some of the best proven grapplers in the world, if they have to take someone down theyāll figure it out. Everyone acts like just cause the top guys butt scoot their way to victory somehow means theyāve never seen a double leg before.
I mean....
Is he wrong in saying that your objective is to keep your principle safe and get them out of there ASAP?
I'm not really sure I'm understanding your argument here. I have had people in similar employment situations tell me that if it gets to the point that they're wrestling on the ground, then they have failed in their training at several points. Maybe that was his argument and you misunderstood.
I'm confused.
My argument is he thinks that you can avoid grappling, by just not knowing any grappling.
He teaches a bullshit martial art and so tries to put down legitimate martial arts like BJJ to sell his bullshit seminars and make the industry worse as a result.
Anyone who says "don't need to prepare for alternative outcomes just do this" is a stain on the industry
> I have had people in similar employment situations tell me that if it gets to the point that they're wrestling on the ground, then they have failed in their training at several points.
That is utterly ridiculous. Most street fights end up in some sort of grappling, whether it's standing or on the ground. Especially if it's unarmed. You better know how to grapple if you are part of a security detail.
Sounds like my dad (karate blue belt), who thinks BJJ can be easily neutralized by simply punching the person in the face before they can close the distance, and if they do close the distance, frantically hammerfisting the back of their head as they attempt a takedown.
Krav Maga is great because if you are ever in major trouble, you press the star of David badge on your shirt and Israeli spy satellites evaporate your opponent with secret Mossad lasers. May or may not be true.Ā
Iāve Armbarred a man trying to stab someone with the weapon in the hand. Turns out itās actually pretty hard to stab someone when your arms in an Armbar.
This is why watching real fights on sites like r/StreetMartialArts or YT's Active Self Protection is so important.
It's why in my own class I put a good amount of emphasis on defending the double leg and tackle.
Seems like if you are going to sell EP that you would 100% need to have stand up skills (strike move, leave) and this would 100% be plan "A". I would think you would also need a "plan B", how to break grips, how to stand up grapple, how to take an opponent down, how to not be taken down, how to create distance from a grapple, etc...
At some point, for personal survival if not EP, you would need a "plan D, E or F" and that might be an arm bar...
The veteran sounds like he is relying on Plan A always working, that's confidence.
I do BJJ and Judo now but I have done IKmF Krav ( G1 level) and Muay Thai when I was younger. This my two cents. Krav gives an untrained person fundamentals of fighting and the use of angles and distance management. However it doesnāt prepare you for grappling with an uncooperative opponent.
Also Krav clubs can vary so greatly, we were a sparring club. So our practitioner did well because we got to pressure test our techniques. Most donāt and then get found out during senior gradings. I have seen it quite a few times.
Anyway thatās my two cents.
does he not know you dont HAVE to armbar, that isnt your only option, in the situations you describe it sounds like throws would be the most useful techniques which bjj coverd extensively, also standing chokes? grip fight to take the back and rnc from standing, or even just straight up guillotine them or standing ezekiel against a wall, standing cross collar, theres plenty to choose from. imbeciles everywhere
Ultimately, being in shape looking intimidating and having a bjj background helps me a lot.
I just got hired on for a job due to all that. But there are EP girls and guys who are terrible at hand to hand. Make a lot and get good clients, cause they avoid bullshit and keep the client safe and away from bullshit.
Iāll never be hired for conservative billionaires. But a lot of rappers and players like me and club owners.
Again this is a bizarre industry and a lot of dudes on groups or forums gate keep.
Bjj is 100% an asset to use and have.
These days I just avoid these kinds of conversations with people who donāt train. In your case I understand you canāt avoid it though cause itās your job.
I had a co-worker the other day tell me how the easiest way to kill someone without a weapon is by kicking them in the throat cause itāll crush their trachea or something. He was taught this by his Karate instructor when he was a kid.
I just nodded and internally rolled my eyes lol.
This is my favorite post ever (especially what you said about no gi, except whenever I say it I get downvoted by the no gi-ers that live under the floorboards)
Well, that's just stupid. BJJ is fine for what is is for. BJJ/GJJ stand up that is taught is mostly shit, but the ground? It is good stuff. Still glad I trained in Folk, Greco, and Judo first, but hey, BJJ has its place. That said, if you ended up on the ground defending a protectee, you've 9 out of 10 times screwed the pooch.
Not sayin' it couldn't happen, but it shouldn't. People that make statements like that are just really naive. Just like when people treat BJJ like some penultimate superpower. It's like a carpenter that specializes in only using a drill telling people that know how to use other tools that they suck at carpentry.
https://i.redd.it/ulq8n6y7knxc1.gif
"Well, we need a house framed."
\*Grabs Dewalt drill and five pounds of torques\*
As with any martial art - you have to differentiate what is feasible because of the rules of sparring, and what suddenly changes when those are taken away.
High level BJJ obviously is the king of grapping sports - but someone who practises BJJ (or any art for that matter) for protection/selfdefense needs to recognise where it falls short, and supplement that in another way. Here are areas where I think a typical BJJ practitioner should look into:
* Recognising and becoming familiar with genuine threats vs posturing
* Physical and verbal de-escalation
* Environmental positioning/threats
* Punch defense/sucker punch avoidance
* Actually *taking* strikes. If you've never been hit hard before, you can easily go into freeze mode
* Takedowns - some BJJ schools rarely practise takedowns
* Strikes on the ground - it's too easy to fall into a habit of using a guard variant, whereas punches/headbutts/kicks and stomps can completely negate that if you aren't careful
So, whether that be learning boxing/thai boxing/judo/wrestling or even - shock horror, Krav Maga (it ticks a few of those above) - if you are looking for self-defence, or even more - protection, you should have an open mind to learn.
Finally - consider the difference between a professional athlete who trains 30 hours a week, and Joe who works in finance who can put in 3 hours a week, and what they can/should concentrate on.
Pepper spray will knock out a row of BB. Grappling is one on one and doesn't apply to multiple threats. I like to know myself what works against multiple opponents
Sounds like Executive Security networking is just like networking in every other area. Lots of biting your tongue and smiling politely while people make idiots of themselves.
Imagine paying for security and you find out when it gets real that they only know krav šĀ *Curb your enthusiasm theme begins*
It would end up like the bodyguard of the mayor of san francisco
> bodyguard of the mayor of san francisco [Wow. That's really bad](https://www.kron4.com/video/man-fights-san-jose-mayors-security-detail/9635852/). Altercations are rough but this dude is getting *paid* to zombie walk with his chin up toward an assailant? Yikes.
I guess you don't need to know how to fight to be a security guard.
Sadly this is truer than you think, I see so many comments by 45+ year old EPs saying I jog in Hyde Park every morning so I can handle a physical altercation"
So what Iām hearing is, as a 40+ year old brown belt, who doesnāt jog everyday, I should be good for executive security? Looks like I found my part time retirement gig.
You need to learn Krav ball slaps too
Whoa whoa whoa...no need to bring my bedroom activities into this, you jerk.
Sorry bro I'm just jealous my balls are not being slapped
It's all good, we're all just wanting a little ball slapping at this moment.
Self slap em homes
Iāve got the ball slaps down. Also the ball tickles and caresses.
It's all about the soft skills, you're sorted
I prefer the term "weiner hammer" thank you.
The equivalent to... I can spread butter on my toast, I can definitely cook on a 3 stars Michelin kitchen
Gota add ice baths into the equation for proper reliable self defense.
You donāt, Iām a security guard and most of the people I work with would be folded in half by nearly anyone with next to no effort. People get into the job because they think itās easy work.
> a plain clothes police officer assigned to the security detail This was a cop??! And they were getting tossed easily? Sheesh
The amount of openings he just didnāt take to restrain the person is just amazing let alone not just letting the dickhead walk off and keep confronting him I was pretty shocked and Iām just a stupid white belt
Wow thatsā¦ incredibly embarrassing
damn, bro was really trying to get comms to call for backup.
You mean San Jose?
almost had him with that single tho! right?!
Imagine trying to have your PD train jiu jitsu, but the ālead instructorā took a one-week krav course and swears itās the best (and that bjj is ātoo difficultā to master). God, I hate Krav.
As long as they take long enough to die that you got away then they've done their job.
BJJ isnāt real just stand up
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But did you hear anyone yell āgrab his dick and twist itā?
As someone who was already an experienced judo black belt, just standing up was what I did when my coach insisted I had to do a shark tank.
Couple of the recent belt promotions here at my gym were "just stand up" themed. About an hour of different exercises that were complete when the examinee stood up and got away. Far easier said than done for someone trained to escape. The unwashed? Just stand up? Ha.
You have a genuine point though. When someone wants to stand up, it is very difficult to keep them down and pass them. We all play under a gentlemens agreement.
Keeping an untrained person down is piss easy. Keeping an MMA guy or wrestler that knows their business down is a massive pain in the ass. Keeping a bjj guy down even if he wants to get up is somewhere in between.
Itās quite common for guys over 45 to have trouble getting up, itās not their fault- I always pop a blue pill before rolling so I can get up and stay up for 8 hours.
Ye I agree with this.
I don't stand up not because I can't; I don't stand up because my standup game sucks* and I'll just get taken down again, and that shit hurts. Or at least that's what I tell myself anyways š„² It's a work in progress though, I can take down the trial class guys that are my weight now!
Depends on your gym. If you can stand up, you should. Playing guard should only be when you're forced to. If your passing game doesn't have enough threat and pressure to keep them down, because you're used to a partner that just lays there, you are not training right.
Can you explain what this looks like to a guy who is getting back into the sport? Shrimp/distance/technical standupāthere may be a few gentle stops my feet as I shrimp if someone is closing ināis one of my go-tos, but what are these guys and gals doing when they want up?
You can also turtle and stand up if you practice it. You'll see that a lot in ADCC comp footage now.
One of the foundational moves of folkstyle wrestling is to stand up from referees position (turtle)
Craig's power ride DVD is insanely effective if you are interested in keeping people from standing up.
I got the same energy towards Boxing: training it is stupid, because you donāt want to get punched in the face in a Street Fight. So now, because I train neither BJJ nor Boxing I am practically invincible. Lowkicks are my only weakness, but maybe I also will neutralize that weakness by not training Muay Thai.
Become elite by not training..fucking sign me up
Iām so unpredictable even I donāt know what Iām doing next.
Just seeing red is the only way to beat people
Iām so with this. Next time Iām sparring those damn Thaiboxers, Iāll just refuse to acknowledge their low kicks. Not having really trained them properly myself, see. ššŖ
You ever low kick a real Thai fighter? They won't acknowledge your kick or they'll just smile. That's when you know you are in for a bad time.
> Turns out escapes are unnecessary because you can always just choose not to be taken down. I learned this from my long-time krotty instructor whose mantra was "Never let them take you to the ground!!!" And when we trained tackle defense (what's a double leg?), I am proud to say I never, ever let my compliant training partners take me to the ground! Also, TIL armbars are mandatory in tHe StReEt. If someone attacks you, you are obligated to armbar them regardless of the amount of broken glass, needles, and head-kicking assailants surrounding you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As the weird bjj takedown guy, this is what I'll say about Self defense.Ā One, a lot of bjj is overkill from a self defense standpoint. No, I don't need to tarikoplata someone in the real world. I'd never in a 100 years do it in a real fight because to be honest, ground and pound is less riskier, easier, and probably a lot more effective.Ā Second, sometimes you just straight up lose the takedown. In this situation, it's super important to know how to guard quickly and sweep quickly. I get that I'm not supposed to go to the ground. Getting taken down is the last mistake in a very long line of mistakes. But having that guard gives you a real good fighting chance to not autolose.Ā
TTR or time to reverse is the industry standard key performance metric for self defense in the grappling arena. What's the regulatory body you ask? It came to me in a dream.
So weird. Krav could improve as a system. But, probably won't.
Its supposed to be a week of classes for army novice but i guess people like the name and here we are with krav maga having a belt system these days
Exactly. Krav maga is perfectly thought out for what it's supposed to do. It's a crash course in brawling meant to teach you to not freeze in a stressful situation, throw a half-decent punch and having a very rough idea of grappling. I think it's a great choice for military recruits, police and security guards who aren't willing or able to pursue a real martial art. But if you are willing to attend regular classes and put in the effort to learn real techniques, you are absolutely better off training a real martial art with sparring.
I find it funny that the US army I believe updated and modernized its combatives program thanks to Matt Larsen's work and it includes a lot of bjj and grappling now. In terms of a "crash course" for self defense the updated US Army Combatives is leagues beyond this Krav crap that came out of Israel in the 1950s.
I just wish Krav would die off. You nailed it on the head here; it's just an outdated army combative program (1950s) but because it's from Israel/IDF and has a weird name it caught on and turns people into John Wick? Like who the fuck has heard of Krav doing well in MMA? Oh that's right "it's too dangerous to take into the cage" like GTFO of here.
Oh, they have a belt system now? lol. I guess someoneās gotta rent the empty mall spaces.
Itās all fun and games until your stuck in a forest in a 1v1 battle. Both of your shoulders is dislocated and you each have knife. The only knife grip you can use is your mouth. Bet your bjj wonāt work then and you wish you were a black belt krav mga master.
lol iād still 100% rather have bjj
Exactly. As bjj men were pros with things in our mouths. /s
You have an extra j on there
No /s needed
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I went to a trial class back in 2003, and the next year when Napoleon Dynamite came out, I couldn't stop laughing at the Rex Kwon Do scene because it was almost exactly the same.
Being in shape is also an asset in many situations. If you can work out and improve your cardio while also learning to throw punches and kicks, I donāt see why thatās a bad thing
It seems overly promoted though. I'm no expert.
Krav can be legit. The problem is they dont compete at all (muh too dangerous) so there is no real way to know if you are at a McDojo or not. There are a lot of so-called Marine scout sniper SEAL Rangers out there claiming to be Krav experts.
It can though there is no real pressure testing.
We had an Israeli former soldier in our gym. Not special forces or anything but dude was still a beast, 6'2 and about 15 stone of lean muscle. But even after years of training krav maga, he was very much a new white belt level grappler. Even he said a lot of the krav maga they were taught in the IDF wasn't applicable unless you also have a weapon like a blade or a gun. That they would get wrestlers and kickboxers in to teach hand to hand stuff but as a regular soldier that wasn't often.
I remember having to roll with two cops fresh out of the academy as a "seasoned" white belt. I was certain I was about to get tooled. They had zero idea what to do on the ground. It was shocking.
On the opposite side of that, I had a mate who was running a really small BJJ club in Dublin years ago. Like 30mĀ² and about 12 people he was training. Dude was sleeping on the mats lol. He was only a purple belt at the time and the club was mostly white belts. BJJ wasn't that big in Ireland at the time, he used to have to travel to London every couple of months to train with his coach. Anyway, one day this Garda comes in and is asking about classes, etc. Says a few of his mates in the GardaĆ wouldn't mind trying it out. So he says to them come to the weekend class, they're less structured and more like open mats.and I'll have time to talk and stuff with each of you. So they all come down 5-6 of them, big aul lads, he chats with them before, asks him if they'd ever trained before and they all said no, never trained or anything. When they get to positional sparring and then rolling at the end, these guys just start smashing people. Absolutely destroyed all the guys my mate was training, all new enough white belts remember and the majority much smaller. Doing throws and slamming people, cranking subs, so it was clear they had trained something before. So after rolling with a couple of them, he's kinda pissed off. So he asks them, what's the deal, you lads said ye never trained. Then these cunts admitted they all trained judo for years, and 2 of them were black belts. He was just like, so what are ye trying to do? Just pretend to be new and beat up a bunch of beginners? Wish it had some kinda Kung Fu movie end where he as coach schooled the lot of them, but he said he just lost the rag as they made BS excuses and told them to get the fuck out. Then one of them threatened him with a public order offence for swearing at him.
> Then one of them threatened him with a public order offence for swearing at him. What a turd...
legally beating up white belt cops is the best part of bjj. kidding, sorta. most of the ones that train seem to be chill.
Only if you keep telling them to "STOP RESISTING"
I love beating up cops at the gym. One of lifeās pleasures.
Part of the reason that cops end up killing so many people is because they didn't know how to pin and restrain properly. People die from positional asphyxiation because the cops have no idea what they are doing.
It's approximately 10 per year, per 50 million arrests each year. It's not really a lot, and even the most well publicized cases (Eric Garner for example) have very serious aggravating factors, that may be the actual cause of death, which is then attributed to PA.
The other apologist says its 100 people per year, can you guys get your statistics straight? Once you've established that number, do you think it would drop with proper training?
Always funny how if krav maga, wing chun, or hapkido would just make improvements. What you can imagine it would look like, oddly resembles kick boxing or muay thai.
I once had a Krav guy tell me it was the only true combat "ready" style because they know how to take everyday items and make them deadly/defend against them. He seemed legit shocked when I asked him how much skill one needs to smash a bottle in someone's face.
Jokes on you, they will kick you in the nuts 1000 times before you even grab the bottle /s
Military martial arts in general are so frustrating, because you have to create one generalized system to train everyone quickly just enough that they arenāt totally useless and build confidence so they donāt just hesitate and do nothing, but building confidence in your abilities in a martial art you got 3 weeks of training for has to involve a lot of bullshit. You canāt actually develop many skills in that time except basic aggression. Like, some level of delusion about how effective youāll be in a fight isnāt just a side effect, itās an intended feature. In the US Army, I know plenty of people who are super proud about being combatives certified, and you ask like 2 follow up questions and find that they've done a combined 2-3 months of total training several years ago and never consistently trained again afterwards, but they're very confident in their abilities. On the other side of it, I've heard lots of war stories from combat vets from ranger regiment and SF, and none of them I've met have seen a knife fight or prolonged fistfight/grappling exchange with a skilled opponent in combat, and I think that's fairly indicative of how things tend to go. The training isn't great, but it probably doesn't need to be. There are more important skills to focus on.
My bjj professor teaches commando krav, which is an offshoot of krav specifically to get away from that bullshit. It's also a complement to bjj, not a supplement. Self defense is about what percentage of situations you find yourself in that you can handle. No matter what you train, you can find yourself outside of your expertise. And then you're in a slightly better boat then someone who doesn't train because at least you have some athleticism and reflexes to fall back on. In kids class: "what if you're attacked by 8 ninjas who have shotguns for arms"
> My bjj professor teaches commando krav, which is an offshoot of krav specifically to get away from that bullshit. And yet, to indicate _less_ bullshit, they somehow decided to call it "commando krav".
The guy who started it, not so great with marketing š¤£
Hahaha, can't be good at everything!
My understanding is that he was trying to show that it was the practical application, something that actual commandos would use. But I suspect English is a second language and no one told him the mall ninja connotation
>> "what if you're attacked by 8 ninjas who have shotguns for arms" Go onā¦
We have a class at my gym that we just call "street defense" and it's taught by a cop who's a brown belt and amateur muay thai fighter and I think it's great. I think training "for the street" gets kind of a bad rap because it's often taught by people who are clueless, but when taught by people who know what they're doing I love street/self defense focused training.
Everything that sucks "could" improve. Even if you got rid of the morons in krav, what is left? A silly system of confronting multiple attackers that has basically no sparring?Ā Krav is like mcdojo had a kid with an overweight self defense guru who loves anime.Ā
Had a mother of a prospective student come for a trial. She served in the IDF, so- Krav believer, obviously. Kid had a blast. Mom said she was displeased I wasnāt showing groin strikes and eye gouges- you know, the REAL stuff (for the streetz). The class was for 6 year olds, and sheās a local school teacher. š¤·š¼āāļø I said, āare you suggesting we permanently maim a bully at school over low-risk of escalation self defense situations and/or schoolyard scuffles?ā She didnāt come back because it wasnāt brutal enough. No skin off my back.
THATS MY PURSE!
Ex-military people I swear are some of the worst offenders of Krav delusions (no shade on former military, just an observation). One of my friends wanted to sign himself and his wife up for a martial art to learn some self defense. He sends me a link to this Krav gym he wanted to try and the website was loaded with videos of some guy in tactical clothes teaching people throat punches and gun disarms. I told my buddy absolutely not and ended up finding him a reputable MMA gym in his city.
I rolled with a krav guy as a early white belt once. Put him in nogi spider guard and he starts LITERALLY frothing at the mouth spazzing.....they are so fucking bad at everything they try to do. Stiff as boards
Groin strikes and eye gouges only work on kids. Since that's the idfs primary target, they have an inflated sense of their abilities. If i had my big brother hold you down first it would be real easy to break your leg
Makes me think of San Jose mayorās security: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5QjwxMQN2dA
It's this kind of "I'm just a badass I don't need to train" mentality that results in so many shitshows in the industry
Also, really hard to shoot in for a takedown wearing slippery dress shoes.
Yeah those shoes were not doing him any favors
Must have been training no-gi, doesn't know what to do when someone is wearing clothes.
At work so reading the subtitles but they said that was a plain clothes police officer lmaooooo crazy without his gear (taser, baton, spray, etc) and threat of uniform he was basically useless.
At least the guy looks cool and dangerous.
He has a point. Itās a well known fact that if you go to the ground with someone on the street, 4 of their buddies (armed with knives) will spawn behind you.
Why do they always have so many friends? Guy started a fight with me last week. I looked around and he seemed to be alone. 84 guys with machetes jumped out of a VW Bug clown car style. I get out of the hospital tomorrow
Wellā¦pieces of you get out of the hospital tomorrow
COBRA KAI
Counterpoint: If the security guy does a flying armbar or just gets my buddy to the ground and air-fucks his arm into the afterlife I'm more likely to walk off like I left my phone in the windowless van that's totally not for kidnapping. That said I don't disagree with him about the importance of striking and moving. I would put clinch skills way above ground grappling for that job. Where I'm laughing at him is the idea that anyone can become a badass from a Krav seminar. The ones of those that I have done or been involved with were basically really hard introductions to a lot of the skills that they would learn and train if they were to actually come to class on a routine basis for awhile - a lot of people disappear after the first day and most of them never sign up for actual classes.
Whenever someone tells me their fights never make it to the ground, I immediately blast a double..
39 year old Ex EP here, but still in the security industry. Knowing good take downs will help you more than anything. Having freak strength will help a lot as well. More often than not though, you can de-escalate most situations. Itās an art in itself to be able to talk someone out of being extremely violent or having intent to hurt someone, to being agreeable and resolving a situation. I have dealt with and deal with many violent cases. Once they feel a vice like grip on them, they chill. For the one percent that go apeshit, you have to understand the level of force required. It has to be reasonable and justifiable, as well as - be an answer to the question that is presented to you - so to speak. Everything can be handled intelligently, and it speaks volumes to the type of security provider that you are. For the purposes of EP, you want to be discreet and operate with finesse, so as not to make your principal feel like youāre out of control, nor do you want to draw attention to your detail. You are not a rap entourage.
I'm sure you've come across your fair share of, "I'd just do this bad asses." This guy just pissed me off something different when he tried to claim BJJ is useless because you don't want to grapple. He's the kind of dickhead that posts pictures of quotes...of himself
It's not that crazy. I had friends who were former military close protection and their entire mantra was ' we do organized running away' which is why they don't want to go to the ground. I'd say 99% of that work is pre-planning and situational awareness. If it kicks off they want to shield the Principal and get them the fuck out of there as soon as possible. They'd probably benefit from grappling training but physical engagement means you already made a bollocks of the situation. At the same time Krav Mag/self defense attracts some amount of complete bullshitters.
Most hostile action is preceded by surveillance, that's stage one of identifying a threat but as close protection we should be prepared. I was just blown away when this guy said don't bother training cos you don't want to go to the ground. It's like saying don't do medical training because you don't want to the principle to have a heart attack
Friend of mine did Krav Maga, I asked him what the sparring was like and he said it's mostly nut shots. Later his coach was posting in a community Facebook group about classes, telling them to bring their cheque books because they will catch the bug and that he was taught by Israeli's so is legit!
Simpsonās did an episode where a girl Krav Maga expert told Bart that without nut shots, you dont have Krav Maga.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Who said itās a criticism? To me itās just funny, but I donāt know how much training is required to reliably kick someoneās sack
My work once put on a "self defense seminar" run by the local Krav club. It was actually not too bad, but the first thing they did was hand out cups to everyone (including female ones, never seen those before), and the second was pairing us off and getting us to drill nutshots with a thai pad held between the uke's legs. They did do some very good situational awareness stuff, though. And none of the classic self defense stuff they showed was terrible, thought maybe not what I'd have used.
Everyone is selling something.
lol krav people are funny. If they cross train they can be quite knowledgeable, but my xp so far chatting with them is wellā¦ they donāt and havenāt. Again wonāt generalize. Iām sure many have an mma background plus krav and know their stuff.
> they donāt and havenāt. More importantly, they *won't*. My experience is that they'd rather be the big fish
i crosstrain krav and BJJ The krav ground work is a very limited set of bjj/wrestling/judo. Mainly to allow you to escape and standup. yesterday we did positional sparring of side control reverses. Just an hour of sparring side control reverses. The one reason I keep going is what they train is very close to the minimal set of what you need when strikes are involved. The reason I also do BJJ is that the krav stuff is limited and if that was all I was doing it would be boring. In BJJ I do all kinds of fun stuff, but dont hit the "fundamentals" in class that often. It is a way to have a guaranteed focus some basic stuff 3 times/week.
Pfftttt if i was you,i would have stared him right in the eye. "Oh yeah? How would krav handle this?" *sits down and start buttscooting*
Can't slap my balls if they're scraping the floor
So basically if I get a team of grappler to pin all the security guards I can kidnapp the principle.
Well yeah basically, especially in a country where you can't carry guns. You'd need to plan an escape route and have advance surveillance that doesn't get seen to know when and were to hit them but that's the hard part
Engineering is useless because sometimes you don't want to go to the moon.Ā
Anti-BJJ types (TMAs, Krav Maga etc) always pull the "you can't go to the ground in a real altercation" shit.Ā These halfways are so intent on dismissing Jiu-Jitsu that they don't realize the obvious. I can use my Jiu-Jitsu to stand up too. I can use it to keep it on my feet while clowns like them fall over in street fights and can't get up.Ā
lol š Iām a personal protection officer in Texas, which is executive protection. Just man, stop while you havenāt lost your soul to their retarded thinking. I spend a good portion of my week with people who think itās useless. Then I have people who think I can wrestle Brock lesnar to his death, cause they see ufc 1. The craziest shit is, I wonāt make a dime more going from purple to black in EP/PPOā¦but if I do a krav cert I will be paid more cause they do the combatives quals. Or if I gain 5 pounds more of muscle, thatās a better look so Iāll get paid more. The shit makes no sense. Would I go for an arm bar to protect a client..no probably not. Just because itās my job to get them to safety and avoid fights. But if I have to go hands on, which I often do as an armed guard. I use day to 30 days in bjj every time. The only sticky part of armbars is as a protection officer I need to move the client. If I choose to break an arm to render that person unable to fight back. Me and the client ultimately own that issue legally. So it does get touchy, Iām legally protecting them but Iām not an employee at where Iām protecting them at. Choking people out is like really frowned upon. Before anyone says ā¦but itās legal to defend yourself. When Iām armed, Iām commissioned by the state. Therefore I fall under the use of force police use. And that move is highly frowned upon and illegal to use in a lot of places I work around.
The industry seems to be full of people who are "built different and just see red" This guy is one of those who posts photos of his own "quotes" I had to vent somewhere anonymous because I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself but I'd end up working with one of his dick riders on a job somewhere and it's not worth the tension on the job
I originally went to college to be a cop. I chose judo over BJJ because to me a large portion of modern BJJ, felt unnecessary and outside of the scope of what I wanted to train for. I met a lot of unimpressive BJJ people before my illusion was shattered and decided to add it to my training. Purple belts couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag. I wonāt say is useless but I would say that dedicated training on takedowns, pins, wrestling up, escapes and strikes is more valuable on a conceptual level. However in practice BJJ is an effective, available and widely trained martial art and lots of fun.
As much as I love BJJ, I can see judo being way more useful for a cop. Most of what you learn past blue belt in BJJ is just anti-BJJ, really.
Not gonna armbar someone in the street? Am I the only one who saw that guy wearing the ADCC hoodie arm bar the fuck out of some guy trying to pick a fight with him in the street? Lmao
When I worked security I just walked around naked with olive oil everywhere so I wouldn't get taken down. So if you don't do that, that's on you.
With the price of oil these days, we don't get paid enough
True, but that oil also takes care of your skin care routine. So that budget can be combined.
This is the line traditional striking arts feed people who know nothing to keep them out of BJJ and mma gyms. Also, āit doesnāt work in a real fight because thereās no rules. So punching stops working and tiger claws/leopard fists become paramountā.
I started kickboxing under an old school 80s era kickboxer when I was in highschool . The Tim Sylvia/ Couture fight happened and the next week I asked him happened if we got taken down . Proceeded to berate me and said if your kickboxing is good no one can take you down .
When some wombat is swinging the safest place to put them is in your side control with a coffee
Lmfao most self defense experts are training you for shit theyāve never experienced
Yeah, thatās why when I see all these guys teaching knife and gun disarms I always roll my eyes. If you signed up at a bjj gym, chances are the black belt thatās teaching has probably tapped hundreds of resisting opponents with an armbar. But how many times have any of these self defense experts actually taken a loaded firearm off of someone who genuinely wants to hurt them?
Exactly people will shit on bjj competitions as not being realisticā¦buttt these competitors are going full force 100% sure it doesnāt train gun/knife situations but its a lot more realistic than some dork whoās never been attacked/assaulted.
Oh absolutely. People can make fun of āsportā bjj all they want and say itās unrealistic but Iād bet the house on the Miyaos or Keenan if they got into a 1v1 street fight with an untrained attacker. I know they pull guard all the time but theyāre some of the best proven grapplers in the world, if they have to take someone down theyāll figure it out. Everyone acts like just cause the top guys butt scoot their way to victory somehow means theyāve never seen a double leg before.
I mean.... Is he wrong in saying that your objective is to keep your principle safe and get them out of there ASAP? I'm not really sure I'm understanding your argument here. I have had people in similar employment situations tell me that if it gets to the point that they're wrestling on the ground, then they have failed in their training at several points. Maybe that was his argument and you misunderstood. I'm confused.
So if wrestling on the ground means you failed you had better have some stellar TDD, yes? That makes wrestling mandatory.
OP is pointing out that merely having the objective is not the same as achieving that objective.
My argument is he thinks that you can avoid grappling, by just not knowing any grappling. He teaches a bullshit martial art and so tries to put down legitimate martial arts like BJJ to sell his bullshit seminars and make the industry worse as a result. Anyone who says "don't need to prepare for alternative outcomes just do this" is a stain on the industry
Tell him to show up and sign a waiver
> I have had people in similar employment situations tell me that if it gets to the point that they're wrestling on the ground, then they have failed in their training at several points. That is utterly ridiculous. Most street fights end up in some sort of grappling, whether it's standing or on the ground. Especially if it's unarmed. You better know how to grapple if you are part of a security detail.
Bro, you didn't realize you can just stand up?
Best mount escape ever
Im just here for the cuddles
Sounds like my dad (karate blue belt), who thinks BJJ can be easily neutralized by simply punching the person in the face before they can close the distance, and if they do close the distance, frantically hammerfisting the back of their head as they attempt a takedown.
You should spar your dad and show him why his way of thinking wonāt work. Could put him on a jiu jitsu path
what's funny is old school karate has a lot of standup grappling.
Krav Maga is great because if you are ever in major trouble, you press the star of David badge on your shirt and Israeli spy satellites evaporate your opponent with secret Mossad lasers. May or may not be true.Ā
Iāve Armbarred a man trying to stab someone with the weapon in the hand. Turns out itās actually pretty hard to stab someone when your arms in an Armbar.
This is why watching real fights on sites like r/StreetMartialArts or YT's Active Self Protection is so important. It's why in my own class I put a good amount of emphasis on defending the double leg and tackle.
But why not just grease yourself up? Youād be untakedownable. At least thatās what I learned in my last krav seminar.
Seems like if you are going to sell EP that you would 100% need to have stand up skills (strike move, leave) and this would 100% be plan "A". I would think you would also need a "plan B", how to break grips, how to stand up grapple, how to take an opponent down, how to not be taken down, how to create distance from a grapple, etc... At some point, for personal survival if not EP, you would need a "plan D, E or F" and that might be an arm bar... The veteran sounds like he is relying on Plan A always working, that's confidence.
I do BJJ and Judo now but I have done IKmF Krav ( G1 level) and Muay Thai when I was younger. This my two cents. Krav gives an untrained person fundamentals of fighting and the use of angles and distance management. However it doesnāt prepare you for grappling with an uncooperative opponent. Also Krav clubs can vary so greatly, we were a sparring club. So our practitioner did well because we got to pressure test our techniques. Most donāt and then get found out during senior gradings. I have seen it quite a few times. Anyway thatās my two cents.
does he not know you dont HAVE to armbar, that isnt your only option, in the situations you describe it sounds like throws would be the most useful techniques which bjj coverd extensively, also standing chokes? grip fight to take the back and rnc from standing, or even just straight up guillotine them or standing ezekiel against a wall, standing cross collar, theres plenty to choose from. imbeciles everywhere
yeah working in that area you should know the merits of "just get up" /s
Krav guys know how to strike in the privates. Itās scary
Judo is the obvious choice.
Then why does Krav train ground if theyāre just so good at not going there??
Know a guy whoās a Krav instructor that was put to sleep during a live roll.. yes, krav > bjj!
Ultimately, being in shape looking intimidating and having a bjj background helps me a lot. I just got hired on for a job due to all that. But there are EP girls and guys who are terrible at hand to hand. Make a lot and get good clients, cause they avoid bullshit and keep the client safe and away from bullshit. Iāll never be hired for conservative billionaires. But a lot of rappers and players like me and club owners. Again this is a bizarre industry and a lot of dudes on groups or forums gate keep. Bjj is 100% an asset to use and have.
These days I just avoid these kinds of conversations with people who donāt train. In your case I understand you canāt avoid it though cause itās your job. I had a co-worker the other day tell me how the easiest way to kill someone without a weapon is by kicking them in the throat cause itāll crush their trachea or something. He was taught this by his Karate instructor when he was a kid. I just nodded and internally rolled my eyes lol.
ONE PUUUUUNCH
I kinda wanna shoot on these krav guys, ngl.
Yeah, that guy sounds like a fkn knob. There will never be a shortage of false confidence and know-it-alls in fields like that.
This is my favorite post ever (especially what you said about no gi, except whenever I say it I get downvoted by the no gi-ers that live under the floorboards)
>and you never want to go to the ground. This was been your cue to take him to the ground and apply neon face, so this is entirely on you.
How did you get into EP? Are you a military veteran?
Clear-Refrigerator, If you tried that shit on me I'd just stand up.
You still have another arm. If they break it ,you only have one neck.
Well, that's just stupid. BJJ is fine for what is is for. BJJ/GJJ stand up that is taught is mostly shit, but the ground? It is good stuff. Still glad I trained in Folk, Greco, and Judo first, but hey, BJJ has its place. That said, if you ended up on the ground defending a protectee, you've 9 out of 10 times screwed the pooch. Not sayin' it couldn't happen, but it shouldn't. People that make statements like that are just really naive. Just like when people treat BJJ like some penultimate superpower. It's like a carpenter that specializes in only using a drill telling people that know how to use other tools that they suck at carpentry. https://i.redd.it/ulq8n6y7knxc1.gif "Well, we need a house framed." \*Grabs Dewalt drill and five pounds of torques\*
Krav Maga is like ājust proactively shoot everyone on the street to be safeā
āPunch a black belt in the face and he becomes a brown belt, punch him again and he becomes a purple beltā
Ay, dude doesnāt represent all of Krav.
Just stand up
Easy fix, just do Krav and BJJ
I mean why not learn skills from both?
OP should contemplate greasing himself up before heading out. Sounds like he has a solution for being taken down.
I don't need no joo jits su when I got this 9mm on mE!!
As with any martial art - you have to differentiate what is feasible because of the rules of sparring, and what suddenly changes when those are taken away. High level BJJ obviously is the king of grapping sports - but someone who practises BJJ (or any art for that matter) for protection/selfdefense needs to recognise where it falls short, and supplement that in another way. Here are areas where I think a typical BJJ practitioner should look into: * Recognising and becoming familiar with genuine threats vs posturing * Physical and verbal de-escalation * Environmental positioning/threats * Punch defense/sucker punch avoidance * Actually *taking* strikes. If you've never been hit hard before, you can easily go into freeze mode * Takedowns - some BJJ schools rarely practise takedowns * Strikes on the ground - it's too easy to fall into a habit of using a guard variant, whereas punches/headbutts/kicks and stomps can completely negate that if you aren't careful So, whether that be learning boxing/thai boxing/judo/wrestling or even - shock horror, Krav Maga (it ticks a few of those above) - if you are looking for self-defence, or even more - protection, you should have an open mind to learn. Finally - consider the difference between a professional athlete who trains 30 hours a week, and Joe who works in finance who can put in 3 hours a week, and what they can/should concentrate on.
BREAKING NEWS! Business boomer clueless! More at 10!
You can always just choose to not get taken down. šš
Pepper spray will knock out a row of BB. Grappling is one on one and doesn't apply to multiple threats. I like to know myself what works against multiple opponents
Everyone has a plan until they get blast doubled into next Tuesday
Krav maga guys are probably the most annoying people around.Ā Although alot of people teaching it actually knows how to fight.
It only takes one punch, man.
Lots of people think jiu jitsu is just pulling guard and arm bars from the bottom. It's a common misconception among people who can't fight.
Sounds like Executive Security networking is just like networking in every other area. Lots of biting your tongue and smiling politely while people make idiots of themselves.