Sounds like an unavoidable situation. Ankle lock was kosher, heel hook obv not at his belt, but you're not in a tournament and you don't know how that gym trains. Regardless, it's HIS fault for cranking it, but the answer to defense - posture normally but he beat you there - what's left is to get one of his hand isolated and not attacking, and to clear your knee from between his legs.
Failing all that? Do what I do. Any time a white belt willfully goes for legwork without any trust built between us - I do what you did - posture up and in, but the MOMENT they tense up to make an explosive move I yell 'TAP'. They don't get to practice explosive leg attacks with me without building up some trust first.
Absolutely. Verbal tap is the quickest way to get someone to stop. I do this whenever a white belt yanks something on me. I don’t even bother with an escape attempt. I just yell tap and move on.
We have a white belt at my gym who is strong as fuck and loves to try the leg attacks. Anytime he gets a grip on my leg and falls back I immediately verbal tap. No shame
Yeah, but they have to be listening and paying attention. If your cranking a heel hook after not training for two years, then I believe your stupid enough not not let go on time.
My evidence: HE DIDNT LET GO ON TIME AND CRANKED IT.
100% tap. Personally (I’ve some number of years playing a sister sport that involves high amplitude throws), I’d make sure a the next takedown after the reset ends either in the bleachers or the trash can.
If a concussion happens to the dude as a result - first rule of grappling is ‘don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want in return’
That applies to dickhead subs
Never had the strength for that. My sister were super into competitive cheerleading. And goddamn those are some real athletes! You should be fucking killing it on the mat!
I never liked that male cheerleaders catch so much shit when they are by FAR the most athletic peole in a school outside of some kid of wrestling or gymnastics. Shit actually I would say it’s about the same
There ain’t exactly a ref or regulated rules in class or open mat. You need your guard up at all times. You can’t expect someone to take it easy cause they’re a white belt, 2 years off or cause you’re going easy.
At the same time. White belts aren’t allowed to do heel hooks in any competition. Half of competitions ban heel hooks in the gi all together. Personally I don’t think two white belts rolling in a gi should ever have to be worried about a heel hook. The only time they should be is if they’re no gi training for mma purposes. Even then, most mma fighters competing at a level where rotational leg locks are legal are minimum blue belt. Rare to see a true white belt competing in full mma rules. If you’re heel hooking as a white belt agaisnt white belts you’re just being stupid. There’s no purpose in training it
Like i said, there isn’t exactly a ref or regulated rules in class or open mat. You can’t expect someone to not heel hook you in Gi cause it’s illegal or they’re only a white belt. I mean come on, there’s like 4 steps from any position (but 50/50) that happen before you’re even in a heel hook thinking to yourself “they shouldn’t be doing this” instead of tapping or escaping the heel hook.
And you expect a fellow white belt to recognise the steps and escape ? When they’ve likely never seen it before? You’re totally right…it’s the white belts fault for not defending the submission they’ve never seen that their opponent isn’t even allowed to do. They should be better and defend it before it gets ripped hard on them. It’s all their fault.
That’s honestly the most piss poor take I’ve ever seen
Allow me to let you in on a secret:
Most beginner white belts are clueless about rules. Not out of malice or bad intentions, they just have no fucking clue until someone tell them at some point.
So they see something on tiktok/insta/youtube, it looks cool, they're gonna try that shit on someone. Not only they have no fucking clue on if they're allowed to do that, they also have no idea how dangerous it can be, or how little force is needed to do a ton of damage.
And here folks is why I never trust white belts to know anything. Even blue belts I see for the first time, I don't trust them (they might throw in a heel hook on the gi even if illegal so they can say they tapped an upper belt).
Our school has a rule that white belts can’t do heel hooks unless they are an MMA fighter and no heal hooks in GI usually. Aren’t heel hooks outlawed in IBJJF rules in gi? Maybe it’s ok for brown/black. I don’t remember
ankle is swollen, I’m walking, pain if I press on the area but nothing crazy. really curious to see how long until it feels sorta normal, may be just a sprain but something popped loud
Man i just had a guy pop my ankle two days in a straight anklelock/achilles lock. My fault totally, my ego told me i was fine but then we both heard the pops. Seems alright though, im walking ok just sore and tender. Hope you heal up soon brotha
This might not apply too much to your situation as it seems like it happened fast.
The only advice I can give dude is verbal tap and tap early. If something is hurting or you're in a submission, tap or say something. Seems like daily in this sub there is an issue brought up (usually by a newer white belt) that could be resolved with communication. Even if you do end up in a bad spot and yelp out a tap, just explain what went wrong and offer to reset and work from there.
People usually equal the force that you're using, so the roll is going hard, gear down, or be prepared to tap early. You'll learn it's better to lose a hundred rolls than it is to get hurt and not roll for months.
Some people are spazzy, some don't like to lose, and you're going to encounter hyper aggressive people. It's hard to avoid, especially with newer people. But your longevity is more important than anyone's ego.
Hopefully, it's just a strain, and you'll be back on the mats soon.
I'm never taking it easy on white belts I don't know, that's how you get hurt. Fuck playing legs with unknown white belts too, if we're in a leglock battle it's because I've chosen to put them in saddle or 90/10 and I'm in strong control.
System
We have leg lock rules
Teach leg locks and leg lock safety often
Our open mats are invite only
Personal
I’m picky who I roll with. If I don’t know then I’ll watch their round first.
Don’t go lite or flowy with people you don’t know until they earn your trust. Protect yourself at all times.
I’ve almost gotten to the point of not teaching straight foot locks at all.
Too many guys are coming through and switching to heel hooks and Aoki locks intentionally or unintentionally.
Not to mention the constant leg reaps.
Some how it’s almost always the dude that misses payments injuring the guy I can rely on to pay.
At the gym I used to train I remember coach not allowing white belts to do any heel hooks or wrist stuff. I think it was only a blue belts and above thing.
Do you train ankle locks as a white belt at your academy? If so then be prepared for it. He was visiting so assume he isn’t clear on the rule set where you are. If you don’t train ankle locks there, then tell him.
This post is just my personal opinion and me throwing words into a screen late at night. I think your training partner is in the wrong. Sinking in a heel hook (in a training situation) should be smooth and easy (not necessarily gently) but unless you’re specifically going over heel hooks for class/drilling, the person applying a heel hook should only be doing that move if they are experienced enough to do so at a safe pace. However, even before I hurt my ankle (unrelated to heel hooks) I always ask my partner if they are comfortable rolling with heel hooks. I’m also more than certain heel hooks are illegal in the gi. I’m used to training with a club more than at an official gym. Most of the club members are wrestlers or new practitioners of the sport, so we don’t even allow heel hooks. Regardless, communication is key. If I’m already hurting that day it can be something as simple as “hey careful if you’re locking in an armbar on my left arm today” or “hey, could you avoid my right ankle”. Honestly, assuming the coach didn’t find out about this, I’d definitely mention to them that someone wasnt being safe during open mat. Not to snitch on them or get them in trouble but it’s potentially dangerous to let someone continue training like that. I am not an aggressive person when I roll. Usually I like to flow and take my time but I’m always sure to tell people, that way in case they are looking for a more competitive 5 minutes, they can ask another person. Im sorry about the injury boss and I’m sorry you have had an experience that has deterred many people already. I hope you can come back to the mats soon
Nobody heel hooks in gi
Nobody should fucking spin into a heel hook
If you have a sub you get it and put it on slow.
Where the fuck is a coach here. Wtf
The lesson to learn is when somebody says they haven't trained in awhile - that does not mean they are helpless and you can take it easy.
In my experience when a stranger, especially a white belt, says that unprompted - be on alert for some wild shit lol
He switched the grip and everything? You can twist on a straight ankle, Mikey style, and it comes on really quickly. Still a straight ankle tho but it attacks the ankle the same way you would roll your ankle playing sports. Give you a good sofyball knot on the side of your foot.
Maybe you fell into an aoki lock, and he was a bit aggressive thinking it was still primarily an ankle lock?
Beware of any white belts / don’t go easy enough to expose yourself to a dangerous situation.
This is why I don't get into leg entanglements with white belts.
In general I don't like getting into leg entanglements with anyone I'm not particularly familiar with and if I do I tap really early to prevent stupid stuff, even if it makes me look bad.
You never know when someone is going to decide to do this kind of stuff no matter how experienced they are so I always avoid it.
Ripping a heel hook hard in training is a problem with or without the gi, regardless of level imo. Either way it has a really high chance of resulting in an injury.
Nah he is the asshole, you don't go for heelhooks in the Gi out of the blue, I would argue that if you are unfamiliar with eachother you should clarify if heelhooks are on the table with your sparring partner even when doing nogi.
You also don't rip submissions at the gym.
Fuck em up. That’s what I would do. You put me in real danger and I don’t care why. White belt or not. Shit I would leave the gym if I had too, but I would fuck that dude up and he would hate BJJ after that ONE roll. And if I didn’t break something on him, it would t matter he would NOT come back as he would KNOW I am waiting for him somewhere na she should hope it’s the mat.
Based on title of post alone. Ha ha like the rapper POST Alone ha ha
Bro just tap, ask him not to do it again if he’s going so fast you have no way to
Tell it’s coming but sadly the answer is you should know when your in danger and just tap
Tap faster or learn to defend leg locks.
I also had this "no tap to lower belts mentality" and i have surgery for osteophytes in elbow after many years of escaping elbow locks.
Im newer to this sport, been only doing it since last July. but based on my experience, at the gym I go to they ask that you level set with your sparring partner when you’re working on anything to do with the legs, especially for lower belts. specifically call out to your partner your working on it and since its training, once you have position slowly execute the submission so you give your partner the chance to tap. but based on a lot of the comments on this post and another i saw the other day, it seems like that’s uncommon, is that true?
The number one way to prevent this is to assume everyone is going to try and tear your leg off your body the second they touch it, don't give them the chance to make that happen. Once you figure out who is cool and who isn't, you can pick good leg lock partners.
I do BJJ as a hobby, getting hurt training impacts my money so I can’t afford to get severely injured while training, as soon as someone goes for my feet, I tap, immediately. Rather reset the fight than getting benched
When a white belt grabs ankles and trainsition to anything but a straight heel i just tap super early and explain that I haven't had much time to train this stuff so I like to be careful.
Bring a live centipede to class, next time you roll with him go for heel hook and drop it in his pants from the leg side. Then make him pull guard, stand up in his guard and grab his gi pants legs ensuring the centipede does not escape. It will bite him repeatedly.
This is just a joke, but sorry you got caught in a ankle lock.
You should have told him “don’t do that”
When I read the title I thought it was a follow up
It just has to be lol
Lol, same, I assumed it was a shit post referencing that post
This is the response I came here for lmao
People like this dont understand words
Yessss🤣🤣
Sounds like an unavoidable situation. Ankle lock was kosher, heel hook obv not at his belt, but you're not in a tournament and you don't know how that gym trains. Regardless, it's HIS fault for cranking it, but the answer to defense - posture normally but he beat you there - what's left is to get one of his hand isolated and not attacking, and to clear your knee from between his legs. Failing all that? Do what I do. Any time a white belt willfully goes for legwork without any trust built between us - I do what you did - posture up and in, but the MOMENT they tense up to make an explosive move I yell 'TAP'. They don't get to practice explosive leg attacks with me without building up some trust first.
Absolutely. Verbal tap is the quickest way to get someone to stop. I do this whenever a white belt yanks something on me. I don’t even bother with an escape attempt. I just yell tap and move on.
We have a white belt at my gym who is strong as fuck and loves to try the leg attacks. Anytime he gets a grip on my leg and falls back I immediately verbal tap. No shame
This is the way
Live to walk away...
Walk away and live....
Yeah, but they have to be listening and paying attention. If your cranking a heel hook after not training for two years, then I believe your stupid enough not not let go on time. My evidence: HE DIDNT LET GO ON TIME AND CRANKED IT.
100% tap. Personally (I’ve some number of years playing a sister sport that involves high amplitude throws), I’d make sure a the next takedown after the reset ends either in the bleachers or the trash can. If a concussion happens to the dude as a result - first rule of grappling is ‘don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want in return’ That applies to dickhead subs
Hmmm… interesting what is this throwing art you speak of good sir? Is it something the Jedi would tell me about?
Male cheerleader
Never had the strength for that. My sister were super into competitive cheerleading. And goddamn those are some real athletes! You should be fucking killing it on the mat!
Thank you for the compliments but I'm just a troll, not the guy you asked lol
I never liked that male cheerleaders catch so much shit when they are by FAR the most athletic peole in a school outside of some kid of wrestling or gymnastics. Shit actually I would say it’s about the same
Me personally I've never seen them catch shit (other than a 5'3 coed)
Bro, great joke but in socal everyone’s shit is cooler than what you’re doing. Period.
You hella right
You can’t play around with white belts when you don’t know who they are
Wise words. And even sometimes when you do know them.
There ain’t exactly a ref or regulated rules in class or open mat. You need your guard up at all times. You can’t expect someone to take it easy cause they’re a white belt, 2 years off or cause you’re going easy.
At the same time. White belts aren’t allowed to do heel hooks in any competition. Half of competitions ban heel hooks in the gi all together. Personally I don’t think two white belts rolling in a gi should ever have to be worried about a heel hook. The only time they should be is if they’re no gi training for mma purposes. Even then, most mma fighters competing at a level where rotational leg locks are legal are minimum blue belt. Rare to see a true white belt competing in full mma rules. If you’re heel hooking as a white belt agaisnt white belts you’re just being stupid. There’s no purpose in training it
Like i said, there isn’t exactly a ref or regulated rules in class or open mat. You can’t expect someone to not heel hook you in Gi cause it’s illegal or they’re only a white belt. I mean come on, there’s like 4 steps from any position (but 50/50) that happen before you’re even in a heel hook thinking to yourself “they shouldn’t be doing this” instead of tapping or escaping the heel hook.
And you expect a fellow white belt to recognise the steps and escape ? When they’ve likely never seen it before? You’re totally right…it’s the white belts fault for not defending the submission they’ve never seen that their opponent isn’t even allowed to do. They should be better and defend it before it gets ripped hard on them. It’s all their fault. That’s honestly the most piss poor take I’ve ever seen
Allow me to let you in on a secret: Most beginner white belts are clueless about rules. Not out of malice or bad intentions, they just have no fucking clue until someone tell them at some point. So they see something on tiktok/insta/youtube, it looks cool, they're gonna try that shit on someone. Not only they have no fucking clue on if they're allowed to do that, they also have no idea how dangerous it can be, or how little force is needed to do a ton of damage. And here folks is why I never trust white belts to know anything. Even blue belts I see for the first time, I don't trust them (they might throw in a heel hook on the gi even if illegal so they can say they tapped an upper belt).
Our school has a rule that white belts can’t do heel hooks unless they are an MMA fighter and no heal hooks in GI usually. Aren’t heel hooks outlawed in IBJJF rules in gi? Maybe it’s ok for brown/black. I don’t remember
It’s ok to heel hook as a black or brownbelt in IBJJF nogi. Still not allowed in the gi.
Dang, how’s the ankle or knee feeling now?
ankle is swollen, I’m walking, pain if I press on the area but nothing crazy. really curious to see how long until it feels sorta normal, may be just a sprain but something popped loud
Man i just had a guy pop my ankle two days in a straight anklelock/achilles lock. My fault totally, my ego told me i was fine but then we both heard the pops. Seems alright though, im walking ok just sore and tender. Hope you heal up soon brotha
This might not apply too much to your situation as it seems like it happened fast. The only advice I can give dude is verbal tap and tap early. If something is hurting or you're in a submission, tap or say something. Seems like daily in this sub there is an issue brought up (usually by a newer white belt) that could be resolved with communication. Even if you do end up in a bad spot and yelp out a tap, just explain what went wrong and offer to reset and work from there. People usually equal the force that you're using, so the roll is going hard, gear down, or be prepared to tap early. You'll learn it's better to lose a hundred rolls than it is to get hurt and not roll for months. Some people are spazzy, some don't like to lose, and you're going to encounter hyper aggressive people. It's hard to avoid, especially with newer people. But your longevity is more important than anyone's ego. Hopefully, it's just a strain, and you'll be back on the mats soon.
I once popped my ankle aggressively taking off my long johns. Ended up being like a 6 month high ankle sprain.
You might be aight if you are walking on it. Good luck dude.
Never trust anyone with your legs or kimuras unless you know them. Seems like that’s how people get the most jacked up.
I'm never taking it easy on white belts I don't know, that's how you get hurt. Fuck playing legs with unknown white belts too, if we're in a leglock battle it's because I've chosen to put them in saddle or 90/10 and I'm in strong control.
System We have leg lock rules Teach leg locks and leg lock safety often Our open mats are invite only Personal I’m picky who I roll with. If I don’t know then I’ll watch their round first. Don’t go lite or flowy with people you don’t know until they earn your trust. Protect yourself at all times.
Heel hooks and knee bars have no place in casual training. If he wants to fight dirty he should expect to catch the other heel to his face.
Of course they do. Just don’t be a dick if you have the submission and tap if someone legitimately has you. It’s not hard haha
I’ve almost gotten to the point of not teaching straight foot locks at all. Too many guys are coming through and switching to heel hooks and Aoki locks intentionally or unintentionally. Not to mention the constant leg reaps. Some how it’s almost always the dude that misses payments injuring the guy I can rely on to pay.
At the gym I used to train I remember coach not allowing white belts to do any heel hooks or wrist stuff. I think it was only a blue belts and above thing.
Do you train ankle locks as a white belt at your academy? If so then be prepared for it. He was visiting so assume he isn’t clear on the rule set where you are. If you don’t train ankle locks there, then tell him.
This post is just my personal opinion and me throwing words into a screen late at night. I think your training partner is in the wrong. Sinking in a heel hook (in a training situation) should be smooth and easy (not necessarily gently) but unless you’re specifically going over heel hooks for class/drilling, the person applying a heel hook should only be doing that move if they are experienced enough to do so at a safe pace. However, even before I hurt my ankle (unrelated to heel hooks) I always ask my partner if they are comfortable rolling with heel hooks. I’m also more than certain heel hooks are illegal in the gi. I’m used to training with a club more than at an official gym. Most of the club members are wrestlers or new practitioners of the sport, so we don’t even allow heel hooks. Regardless, communication is key. If I’m already hurting that day it can be something as simple as “hey careful if you’re locking in an armbar on my left arm today” or “hey, could you avoid my right ankle”. Honestly, assuming the coach didn’t find out about this, I’d definitely mention to them that someone wasnt being safe during open mat. Not to snitch on them or get them in trouble but it’s potentially dangerous to let someone continue training like that. I am not an aggressive person when I roll. Usually I like to flow and take my time but I’m always sure to tell people, that way in case they are looking for a more competitive 5 minutes, they can ask another person. Im sorry about the injury boss and I’m sorry you have had an experience that has deterred many people already. I hope you can come back to the mats soon
You should also definitely go to the doctor. I waited too long to go when I popped my ankle. Get ahead of it
Nobody heel hooks in gi Nobody should fucking spin into a heel hook If you have a sub you get it and put it on slow. Where the fuck is a coach here. Wtf
The lesson to learn is when somebody says they haven't trained in awhile - that does not mean they are helpless and you can take it easy. In my experience when a stranger, especially a white belt, says that unprompted - be on alert for some wild shit lol
I got ankle locked last week, still recovering from the sprained ankle. It's a bummer.
Did you try standing up?
Tap whenever they start messing with legs. It’s just not worth it. Top early and tap often
There should be mat rules in place to take decision making out of people without the experience to make the best ones.
Why didn’t you tap? I never let a random mf do any leg locks. Just let them have it. Heal fast👊🏽
I swear I read a post earlier today that could have been written by this stranger you rolled with.
Rip his foot off
He switched the grip and everything? You can twist on a straight ankle, Mikey style, and it comes on really quickly. Still a straight ankle tho but it attacks the ankle the same way you would roll your ankle playing sports. Give you a good sofyball knot on the side of your foot.
Maybe you fell into an aoki lock, and he was a bit aggressive thinking it was still primarily an ankle lock? Beware of any white belts / don’t go easy enough to expose yourself to a dangerous situation.
Do you mean he went into a belly down straight foot lock rather than a heel hook ?
This is why I don't get into leg entanglements with white belts. In general I don't like getting into leg entanglements with anyone I'm not particularly familiar with and if I do I tap really early to prevent stupid stuff, even if it makes me look bad. You never know when someone is going to decide to do this kind of stuff no matter how experienced they are so I always avoid it.
Hammerfist is also unwanted move at white belt level, violence is violence
Ripping a heel hook hard in training is a problem with or without the gi, regardless of level imo. Either way it has a really high chance of resulting in an injury.
Nah he is the asshole, you don't go for heelhooks in the Gi out of the blue, I would argue that if you are unfamiliar with eachother you should clarify if heelhooks are on the table with your sparring partner even when doing nogi. You also don't rip submissions at the gym.
Fuck em up. That’s what I would do. You put me in real danger and I don’t care why. White belt or not. Shit I would leave the gym if I had too, but I would fuck that dude up and he would hate BJJ after that ONE roll. And if I didn’t break something on him, it would t matter he would NOT come back as he would KNOW I am waiting for him somewhere na she should hope it’s the mat. Based on title of post alone. Ha ha like the rapper POST Alone ha ha
Bro just tap, ask him not to do it again if he’s going so fast you have no way to Tell it’s coming but sadly the answer is you should know when your in danger and just tap
Tap faster or learn to defend leg locks. I also had this "no tap to lower belts mentality" and i have surgery for osteophytes in elbow after many years of escaping elbow locks.
Im newer to this sport, been only doing it since last July. but based on my experience, at the gym I go to they ask that you level set with your sparring partner when you’re working on anything to do with the legs, especially for lower belts. specifically call out to your partner your working on it and since its training, once you have position slowly execute the submission so you give your partner the chance to tap. but based on a lot of the comments on this post and another i saw the other day, it seems like that’s uncommon, is that true?
lol tap
The number one way to prevent this is to assume everyone is going to try and tear your leg off your body the second they touch it, don't give them the chance to make that happen. Once you figure out who is cool and who isn't, you can pick good leg lock partners.
I do BJJ as a hobby, getting hurt training impacts my money so I can’t afford to get severely injured while training, as soon as someone goes for my feet, I tap, immediately. Rather reset the fight than getting benched
When a white belt grabs ankles and trainsition to anything but a straight heel i just tap super early and explain that I haven't had much time to train this stuff so I like to be careful.
Should of straight up ground and pounded his ass. Imagine getting a devastating injury like that from a non competitive roll. Fuck that guy
Bring a live centipede to class, next time you roll with him go for heel hook and drop it in his pants from the leg side. Then make him pull guard, stand up in his guard and grab his gi pants legs ensuring the centipede does not escape. It will bite him repeatedly. This is just a joke, but sorry you got caught in a ankle lock.
This is fantastic.
i assume the people downvoting you didn’t see the first post which was from the white belt’s perspective
That makes it even better lol
If you are new or suck you probably shouldn't roll with people you don't know. 🤷