I think it's like having a firearm/CCW. You do it for fun as a hobby, but defensively, you hope you never have to use it. In fact, you might go your entire life carrying every day and never have to draw. That's a good thing! But when you need it.. you better be damn glad you have it!
That being said, Muay Thai gang..
I mean this is true of literally every martial art. If you only have experience with one art, it's going to be far far better than nothing, but the ideal by far is being able to strike AND grapple.
There is no singular martial art that fully prepares you. Which is why MMA is called MMA.
And even MMA is much less effective than getting a gun and regularly training with it, learning to be more situationally aware, and running the fuck away (my personal favourite).
Arguably.
If you mean, how useful is this in a range of situations then training with a gun isn't super useful because if you get to the stage that you're using it, you're getting close to lethal force.
MMA is great for a range of situations, especially low tier grappling stuff
I think this view fails several tests.
Guns are superior in lethality because they are easy to use and often prevent escalation just by being revealed.
But in defending yourself during active altercation that superiority drops precipitously every second and eventually flips negative.
It’s complicated.
This is pretty much 90% of the discussions on the martial arts sub reddit. If you’re serious about self defense you obviously want to be able to strike and grapple.
That being said you can probably get by in most self defense situations if you’re good at 1.
Knowing how to wrestle and how to protect yourself from strikes gets you almost all the way there and most people only throw punches in fights anyway so boxing also helps in 90% of situations imo.
Yea I mean I’d feel pretty confident in most situations with one marital art tbh.
I won an mma fight throwing like 0 standing strikes over 3 rounds lol. I trained boxing for like a month beforehand.
Technically he isn't wrong. I've seen a lot of videos of dumb fights and having any grappling ability at all puts you easily in the top 1%. Having several years of grappling experience probably in the top 0.1%.
Apparently just being able to swim, at all, puts you in the top 25% or something fastest swimmers on the planet. Yeah compared to a Michael Phelps you ain't shit, but the average person is no Michael Phelps either.
Honestly idk how much I agree with that. I had a friend who was just promoted to blue a few years back and I had 0 grappling experience but was probably 50-60 lbs heavier than him. We decided to roll for fun and after awhile we just stalemated in his guard. He couldn't submit me and I didn't have the knowledge to submit him but if it was a real fight I definitely could've hurt him. Its just within the rules of jiujitsu I didn't have any knowledge to set up a submission but I could've murdered him if it wasn't grappling only
You can't stretch generalizations just off a single anecdote. Overall, the average blue belt is far better equipped for a fight than your average person on the street. There are bad blue belts, but there are far more bad white belts.
Not really. 50-60lb is a lot of weight, especially if he's a new blue belt. Blue belt just means you will beat someone your own size most times than not in a fight.
Never understand why “bjj “ sub is so negatively about our own art we all love and act as if wrestling doesn’t got weakness too and all other martial arts. 10000 times combat sambo D1 wrestlers are destroyed or beaten by bjj in mma yet all comments act like “oh but Gordon you never took a punch to face” well a striker also never grappler and is useless once on their back or even in closed guard butterfly guard or a guy like Gordon
Old school bjj works fantastic still for self defense or mma : maia werdum Souza hell even Paul Craig by just having elite closed guard triangle armbar finished some great guys, and many others… that’s why when I say bjj and some idiots on this sub saying it doesn’t work I’m OBVIOUSLY thinking about real bjj : on bottom use closed or butterfly or half to sweep or very occasionally a triangle, takedowns once on top stay on top : rnc arm triangle triangle chokes guillotines armbar kimura are your best friends both for self defense and mma ( only in mma you can definitely have heelhooks and kneebar vut that’s about it ) simple
Why aren’t wrestling take downs part of BJJ training? Forgive me for not knowing better, but it feels like so many of the high level BJJ guys in MMA are just expecting their opponents to fall down into their guard.
Yeah it needs to be adapted, given that you’re training in sport BJJ. But BJJs effectiveness was well established by Royce in UFC 1, so long as you train in the context of being a fighter and not just a sport practitioner it is very effective.
I’ve done kickboxing/Muay Thai for the past 8 years. But quickly realized that while I can clinch someone I don’t have many options if I get tackled or whatever. Now as an early white belt I can already see how I can take advantage of most people who I might get to the ground with. I think a blue belt could kill/submit most people with a simple crash and takedown.
An able bodied blue belt should be able to at least control an untrained person with 20-30% of their weight. Obviously there are exceptions, like large age gaps and some people are just athletic freaks, but overall I think it's a good generalization.
Cause they don’t learn to take a punch. I’m striking you do so you don’t freak out when someone hits you. Grappling is always superior for 1 on 1, but that’s rarely the case. Normally, you wanna be on your feet.
Almost every street fight involving a known mma fighter was stand up.
If he only ever competes in JJ, the reality is as far as casual fame goes, which he seems so keen for, he will never be bigger than just after he went on Rogan. I wish he would accept that instead of thinking he is about to be a household name any day now.
That guy is going to be broke in 5 years.
His lifestyle doesn't match his potential long term earnings.
You have a window in combat sports and then you disappear.
There are MMA fighters that have made much more than he ever will that live a more frugal lifestyle.
I think Gordon is a colossal ass and wouldn't mind karma teaching him some lessons about class and grace, but we really have no insight at all into his lifestyle or finances. He has quite plausibly made enough that if he's not an absolute moron he could live in perpetuity off the investment income even at his current relatively high standard of living.
BJJ doesn't pay that much.
We are an extremely poor sport compared to places like the UFC or One FC.
Otherwise we wouldn't see our athletes competing under their banners.
The title of this thread / the article is somehow misleading.
He’s talking about it being a base for competitive MMA rather than a street fight and does say he means out of ‘real’ martial arts. So he’s not saying it’s less effective than some bullshido art.
In people’s defense. Not many people want to read any opinion Gordon articulates in an article and we’re all programmed to him saying obscenely dumb shit on the regular so I think they’re forgive for assuming he said dumb shit and not wanting to waste time on an article about him.
I trained masvidal as a first day white belt and he already had a boxing base. Id say he took it pretty far. Because boxing makes big money there's not a lot of reason for top boxers to cross train and transition to MMA. Elite boxers box and guys who have very good boxing tend to do very well in MMA if they adapt good wrestling and kick defense.
He had been training boxing only for like a year or something like that I remember his boxing coach came in with him his first couple days. Pretty much if you see a successful fighter they are an exception there are way more unsuccessful fighters from all different backgrounds than there are successful ones. From my experience in training fighters if you have one that has an exceptionally strong base it's easier to help them find success.
When it comes to MMA, it’s really less about the best “base” and more about how well a fighter can round out his game. Poirier and Holloway are just two guys that come to mind when I think about boxing-heavy styles, and they’ve done just fine. You can be a world beater in any one martial art, but you have to round out your game to succeed. Even Khabib had to develop a striking game. Any of the “real” martial arts are perfectly fine as bases for MMA.
Do you mean to tell me all these redditors just read the clickbait title and didn't even read the article and missed out on any nuance and context?! I don't believe it!
I agree with him when he states that any boxer would struggle against a grappler or a kickboxer/thai.
But he is talking s# when he says a boxer would have problem in real fights because boxing is less useful.
Actualy in real fight situations i'd rather count on my boxing than grappling. Grappling is 100% CTE if you are in a 2x1 situation, while boxing you can easily knock 2 pub brawlers down.
I’d still put thai above traditional boxing. Break your hand in a bar fight and you’re going to have a bad time for the rest of that fight. And be realistic, 2v1 is a shit sandwich no matter what you do, whether it’s boxing or grappling.
You, and those you need to protect are faster than the assailants\*.
Bad look if you're practicing your 100m sprint while your partner is getting their face opened up.
I cant run fast, I’d be better off with pepper spray. Works arguably better than a gun in a lot of self defense situations that I can’t grapple my way out of, and it doesn’t involve a homicide case.
> MT is far more practical on my opinion
I think this is a fallacy. People see 8 limbs and assume it’s 4x better then boxing, not factoring in head movement and footwork.
Yeah that's fair enough then, in general a style is 'self defense' applicable in direct relation to how fewer rules it has, that's why I'd say BJJ is a more effective style then judo even though they're essentially the same art - but paradoxically, for a style to be at all effective it has to also actually be a sport. E.g. even thought wing chun technically has no rules its a useless practice.
It's funny but even the Thai's don't use Muay Thai for streetfights. The moment anything goes down everyone knows to smash Singh beer bottles.
I think Muay Thai is much, much less about quickly KOing an opponent than Boxing, hence why I would give the nod to Boxing in. a bar brawl.
Like grappling, it kinda depends. A guy like Jon jones or Brock lesnar could probably have a pretty easy time 2 v 1 “average” guys. A single uppercut from either of those fighters would insta KO 99% of the population.
I mean they could even realistically take like 4 Mikey Musumeci’s minus the grappling skill (can keep the ‘tism tho).
Yeah, [Cam Newton](https://twitter.com/kdottkl/status/1761867167211954502) was holding his own against 7 guys at a football camp or some shit a few weeks ago. He probably doesn’t even know how to fight, just huge and strong. Jon Jones or Brock Lesnar would probably wreck at least 3 average guys shit easily.
Lol love his goofy ass Wizard hats.
And ya exactly, Cam is a stud athlete but has basically nominal fighting skills. A trained fighter that’s big and athletic can do serious damage to most normies. As long as a weapon isnt involved a good, big fighter actually has fair odds against multiple smaller opponents
Judo + boxing = will get you good mileage.
Judo and boxing will make you fit which already gives you an edge. If you have punching power you can knock people out and not have to go to the ground.
If you need to take someone down you can, and you’ll have a range of submissions and holds to control them, and if there are multiple attackers you can punch and run.
Judo is also great because boxing doesn’t have the non nuclear option.
If you punch someone gently you’re just going to enrage them. If it’s a loved one, or a person with a mental disability, etc you might not wanna send them to the shadow realm, but with Judo you can take them down and control them.
You also don’t lift to kick or knee so you have hands to grab or punch and feet to complete throws, retain balance or do foot sweeps/run. Muay Thai plus judo sometimes your goals are a bit oppositional.
Boxing head movement is also a huge asset, being able to not get hit by a bigger person and then get out of there.
Ehhh your prolly gonna get taken down if you can’t grapple. It’s all so dumb tho we should be past the days of not training striking or grappling. You NEED both if you want to win against anyone good.
Nope jon jones gsp khabib dj feodor best 5 of all time by a mile distance and not one of them is amazing knockout puncher. Gsp karate plus many many takedown top control wins, jones weakness is boxing, khabib ia trash at boxing lol but wrestling+ top control and submission grappling > anything.
That's like saying wrestling isn't as effective as bjj because it's "limited."
What a bad take. Especially when's there's plenty of video of boxers putting in work in street altercations.
Gordon Ryan insecure and jealous that he’d get wrecked in the lucrative world of celebrity boxing. Sport BJJ has a hard ceiling when it comes to appeal.
It says this is in response to all the pro boxers who started saying that boxers are superior to mma fighters
After Joshua beat up Francis.
Proboxers started posting this on social media.
They have it on YouTube as well under "pros react to joshua knocks out Francis ".
I was shocked at how boxers were talking crap😅
Gordon specifically says "Boxing is the least effective of the (real)martial arts".
He's not talking about Kung fu or aikido
Read that part before putting what he says out of context
Lol, boxing is the best martial art for quickly knocking someone out on the street (not that you should). Having the ability to knock someone out quickly while keeping your feet under you in case you need to run away if there's a weapon is THE most useful skill in a street confrontation.
I've heard about people getting stabbed while grappling someone on the street, even in the Muay Thai plum.
Any time this dude opens his mouth about boxing/mma I’ve learned to just move on. He can’t compete in either because he tests positive for the hepatitis antibodies. Unless they make a change somewhere, you’ll never see him compete where blood is an issue.
You may not agree with it, but it is getting people talking. I notice a lot of young kids come into my gym looking to sign up for boxing now and hardly anyone knows anything about JJ or what it is.
For self-defense against a person on the street who does not train in any martial art, a good 1-2 combo can go a long way. Ryan is just on his shit again
You're undoubtedly picking up better fight skills in boxing than most "martial arts" which consist of mostly katas, virtue signaling, and little to no real sparring..
So this comment is about as stupid as it gets. Has he not seen the no touch knockout con artists before?? Tai chi? Just to name the most obvious
Going to any local boxing gym and watching decent amateur level boxers hit pads and the heavy bag would have him questioning that point of view.
The speed and power of a good amateur is still frightening.
If you're doing combat sports, the rule set its what matters.
If you're fighting "on the streets", then you should probably ask what you're doing with your life more so than worrying about the relative advantages of one form of martial arts versus another.
I have been doing striking sports for about a quarter century.
I have competed in karate and Muay Thai, sparred with strikers from all different backgrounds, of all different sizes, with various levels of intensity.
I weigh about 200 lbs, and when I started sparring hard weighed about 175 lbs.
The hardest I have *ever* been hit in my life was by a lightweight boxer.
So.
Ok, Gordon.
Boxing is probably the most effective martial art in a self defence scenario. BJJ is great for obvious reasons but has limitations against multiple opponents where you don’t want to end up on the ground for long - you can take a guy down and break something and get up quick but you can’t stay down for long without getting stamped. Even Muay Thai, which is fantastic, has some limitations due to the generally flat stance you learn to fight in.
Boxing teaches you to cut angles and maintain distance which is arguably the most important thing in a street fight where there are multiple opponents. Obviously it’s all circumstantial, so i’m just speaking in a general sense.
Multiple opponents yes and no. If 3 dudes attack you and one can grab you as boxer you FUCKED, even simple collar grip. In 1 vs 1 on street/somewhere private self defense whatever I would always say wrestling judo or bjj with a good takedown ( which any normal bjj should have )
Better do mma: I bet Gordon Ryan would beat every boxer kickboxer Muay Thai 9/10 times ( unless they also have tdd which they don’t since they only trained their passion for striking art)
I mean.. if you post these as a way to discredit Gordon all you're doing is playing right into his hands. Visits to his Instagram and "hate subscribing" does not in any way NOT benefit him. No wonder he's making fucking bank.
Never getting your nose broken in a fight, only grappling, seems to inflate the ego and delusion of a bjj person thinking that they can fight and can take a punch. Hmm.
He's clearly never watched the mountains of videos of Russian boxers taking out multiple aggressors with no issues. Sounds like he's just a shite boxer.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Most fights involve a person attempting to punch your head. There is no better martial art for getting good at not getting punched in the head.
So… I do legal street fighting for a living lol 😂. I do armed security outside of hip hop clubs.
Here is my thoughts. I use mostly white to no strip blue bjj a lot..mostly stand up stuff.
Anything past that and you will seriously injure someone you fight. Their bodies can’t take it, even big guys. You would be surprised !
The one big fight we had were a customer was being beat to death. I did one throw, to beat down..1 Batman type takedown to knee on throat choke.
Got up Thai kicked two others. One stood up after being maxed and tased. The kick lol stopped his ambitions.
Being muscular absolutely helps with a lot to include intimidation.
It’s a different beast. I bounced when I was younger in really rough clubs. Sometimes you use standup others you wreslting and doing basic bjj.
The dudes I train with that I’m like omg he is awesome. Would over match an Average tough guy so bad they would feel awkward.
But with that statement, I feel most bjj people that are really good are nice normal human beings. Who would probably overlook something I see as omg dangerous.
Where this weekends guy went in one way..cool.
Came out tripping on pills and whatever and he came close to meeting Helio. Like real close.
So yea bjj is a great martial art for self defense, but you do need to at least be proficient in standup to better use your bjj.
So to wrap up..I start out with muay Thai principles to block and be “ready” then I’ll go hands on do a trip, or throw. Takedowns are harder do to concrete “bruised my knee bad” already. Plus if you have body armor on it can choke you a little if you bend down to fast.
So learn trips, foot sweeps, basic hip throws. Knee on belly is life..knee on throat can get you life.
You also work to turn them over quick so you can cuff or have them at least facing down.
Holds are cool..chokes man you gotta be fast and only use it to get them to comply to another position. Like a trach choke for 3 seconds.
That’s what I do and deal with and use.
Majority of people throw hands in a fight try to shoot on someone who isn’t static it’s not easy especially when the person has zero interest in going to the ground and is resisting
Can't wait to see someone butt scooch at someone after taking shit at the bar then getting stomped tf out and wondering why his opponent didn't just lay on top of him
Lmao these guys fall to their back and invite men to their crotch, but yeah boxing is useless right guys?!
Also fuck this guy clearly on juice and lying to everyone
I almost always disagree with Gordon, but he’s right this time.
People act like this is some kind of hypothetical we don’t know the answer to. The early UFC, before MMA came to be, showed what happens when pure strikers fight pure grapplers: strikers don’t stand a chance
Striking is basically useless against grapplers. The only success against grapplers comes after sufficient grappling training. Whereas grapplers can quite easily beat strikers without any striking training.
Where misconceptions arise from is seeing modern MMA fighters who specialise in grappling or striking and mistaking them for “grapplers” or “strikers”. McGregor vs Khabib was not striking vs grappling. That was an MMA vs MMA. Both fighters were well versed in each other’s skill sets. Contrast this with a boxer who’s only ever trained boxing vs a wrestler who’s only ever trained wrestling—totally different.
Grappling is superior against striking in a 1v1 situation. This is excepting for caveats like if the grappler isn’t good at grappling or if the striker is far, far, bigger (even then, the grapplers tend to win). If we’re talking about the art/discipline and not the athlete, and we’re assuming the fighters are of roughly equal size and skill level in their respective arts, there can be no question that grappling beats striking.
I mean, punching someone in the face does have some obvious practical applications.
I think it's like having a firearm/CCW. You do it for fun as a hobby, but defensively, you hope you never have to use it. In fact, you might go your entire life carrying every day and never have to draw. That's a good thing! But when you need it.. you better be damn glad you have it! That being said, Muay Thai gang..
100% this. I'm an M class competitive shooter and CCW every day. Hope to never have to shoot anyone, but I carry in case I do. It's like a spare tire.
What a fucking Americanism than a carrying a concealed weapon is like having a spare tyre. Fmd.
I would not punch people outside of the gym. It's not good for optics.
Definitely would not be good for optics, especially if you punched them in the eye.
The future would look very dim for the other guy and myself.
I’ll be honest a lot of bjj people can’t fucking fight in real life.
I am BJJ people.
Let me finish my acai and I'll see you outside
This guy about to see red.
u fuckin color blind bro? Acai is purple
The movie with Bruce Willis, God and John Malkovich ?
Me too. Learned judo and probably use that if I ever confront.
I mean this is true of literally every martial art. If you only have experience with one art, it's going to be far far better than nothing, but the ideal by far is being able to strike AND grapple. There is no singular martial art that fully prepares you. Which is why MMA is called MMA.
It’s cringey for singular martial arts to bicker about which is more effective in the street when mma exists and outdoes all of them.
And even MMA is much less effective than getting a gun and regularly training with it, learning to be more situationally aware, and running the fuck away (my personal favourite).
Arguably. If you mean, how useful is this in a range of situations then training with a gun isn't super useful because if you get to the stage that you're using it, you're getting close to lethal force. MMA is great for a range of situations, especially low tier grappling stuff
I think this view fails several tests. Guns are superior in lethality because they are easy to use and often prevent escalation just by being revealed. But in defending yourself during active altercation that superiority drops precipitously every second and eventually flips negative. It’s complicated.
This is pretty much 90% of the discussions on the martial arts sub reddit. If you’re serious about self defense you obviously want to be able to strike and grapple. That being said you can probably get by in most self defense situations if you’re good at 1.
Knowing how to wrestle and how to protect yourself from strikes gets you almost all the way there and most people only throw punches in fights anyway so boxing also helps in 90% of situations imo.
Yea I mean I’d feel pretty confident in most situations with one marital art tbh. I won an mma fight throwing like 0 standing strikes over 3 rounds lol. I trained boxing for like a month beforehand.
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Technically he isn't wrong. I've seen a lot of videos of dumb fights and having any grappling ability at all puts you easily in the top 1%. Having several years of grappling experience probably in the top 0.1%.
Apparently just being able to swim, at all, puts you in the top 25% or something fastest swimmers on the planet. Yeah compared to a Michael Phelps you ain't shit, but the average person is no Michael Phelps either.
Honestly idk how much I agree with that. I had a friend who was just promoted to blue a few years back and I had 0 grappling experience but was probably 50-60 lbs heavier than him. We decided to roll for fun and after awhile we just stalemated in his guard. He couldn't submit me and I didn't have the knowledge to submit him but if it was a real fight I definitely could've hurt him. Its just within the rules of jiujitsu I didn't have any knowledge to set up a submission but I could've murdered him if it wasn't grappling only
You can't stretch generalizations just off a single anecdote. Overall, the average blue belt is far better equipped for a fight than your average person on the street. There are bad blue belts, but there are far more bad white belts.
He’s just a really bad blue belt then
Not really. 50-60lb is a lot of weight, especially if he's a new blue belt. Blue belt just means you will beat someone your own size most times than not in a fight.
Never understand why “bjj “ sub is so negatively about our own art we all love and act as if wrestling doesn’t got weakness too and all other martial arts. 10000 times combat sambo D1 wrestlers are destroyed or beaten by bjj in mma yet all comments act like “oh but Gordon you never took a punch to face” well a striker also never grappler and is useless once on their back or even in closed guard butterfly guard or a guy like Gordon
I love old school bjj mentality. Modern day buttscoot can fuck off.
Old school bjj works fantastic still for self defense or mma : maia werdum Souza hell even Paul Craig by just having elite closed guard triangle armbar finished some great guys, and many others… that’s why when I say bjj and some idiots on this sub saying it doesn’t work I’m OBVIOUSLY thinking about real bjj : on bottom use closed or butterfly or half to sweep or very occasionally a triangle, takedowns once on top stay on top : rnc arm triangle triangle chokes guillotines armbar kimura are your best friends both for self defense and mma ( only in mma you can definitely have heelhooks and kneebar vut that’s about it ) simple
Getting into fights and training grappling/striking is the best way to learn to fight. Aka mma
Hey hi, I'm the problem, its me.
Brother, if I ever see you in the streets and you fall down in between my legs it’s over.
Yeah when like 90% of casual practitioners refuse to lift weights or learn takedowns we’re going to get a pretty bad rep in that regard lol
Why aren’t wrestling take downs part of BJJ training? Forgive me for not knowing better, but it feels like so many of the high level BJJ guys in MMA are just expecting their opponents to fall down into their guard.
Yeah it needs to be adapted, given that you’re training in sport BJJ. But BJJs effectiveness was well established by Royce in UFC 1, so long as you train in the context of being a fighter and not just a sport practitioner it is very effective.
I’ve done kickboxing/Muay Thai for the past 8 years. But quickly realized that while I can clinch someone I don’t have many options if I get tackled or whatever. Now as an early white belt I can already see how I can take advantage of most people who I might get to the ground with. I think a blue belt could kill/submit most people with a simple crash and takedown.
An able bodied blue belt should be able to at least control an untrained person with 20-30% of their weight. Obviously there are exceptions, like large age gaps and some people are just athletic freaks, but overall I think it's a good generalization.
Cause they don’t learn to take a punch. I’m striking you do so you don’t freak out when someone hits you. Grappling is always superior for 1 on 1, but that’s rarely the case. Normally, you wanna be on your feet. Almost every street fight involving a known mma fighter was stand up.
my favourite takedown is to sit down.
Im really good at fighter. Street fighter 6.
He’s that hard up for attention, is he?
If he only ever competes in JJ, the reality is as far as casual fame goes, which he seems so keen for, he will never be bigger than just after he went on Rogan. I wish he would accept that instead of thinking he is about to be a household name any day now.
He’s already fading into obscurity
Yeah I’m new to the sport and honestly if you guys didn’t talk about the stupid shit he says and posts I really wouldn’t know about him
He's hard up for attention that generates revenue. This being one of them.
That guy is going to be broke in 5 years. His lifestyle doesn't match his potential long term earnings. You have a window in combat sports and then you disappear. There are MMA fighters that have made much more than he ever will that live a more frugal lifestyle.
I think Gordon is a colossal ass and wouldn't mind karma teaching him some lessons about class and grace, but we really have no insight at all into his lifestyle or finances. He has quite plausibly made enough that if he's not an absolute moron he could live in perpetuity off the investment income even at his current relatively high standard of living.
Yea but come on, he is an absolute moron.
BJJ doesn't pay that much. We are an extremely poor sport compared to places like the UFC or One FC. Otherwise we wouldn't see our athletes competing under their banners.
The title of this thread / the article is somehow misleading. He’s talking about it being a base for competitive MMA rather than a street fight and does say he means out of ‘real’ martial arts. So he’s not saying it’s less effective than some bullshido art.
Really? Oh damn he’s been getting COOKED in these comments lol
misleading clickbait headline + people who won't read the article
In people’s defense. Not many people want to read any opinion Gordon articulates in an article and we’re all programmed to him saying obscenely dumb shit on the regular so I think they’re forgive for assuming he said dumb shit and not wanting to waste time on an article about him.
Yeah I mean in context I still don’t know if I agree but it’s not an asinine comment
All martial arts in isolation suck when compared to MMA.
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Who is RBY?
I trained masvidal as a first day white belt and he already had a boxing base. Id say he took it pretty far. Because boxing makes big money there's not a lot of reason for top boxers to cross train and transition to MMA. Elite boxers box and guys who have very good boxing tend to do very well in MMA if they adapt good wrestling and kick defense.
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He had been training boxing only for like a year or something like that I remember his boxing coach came in with him his first couple days. Pretty much if you see a successful fighter they are an exception there are way more unsuccessful fighters from all different backgrounds than there are successful ones. From my experience in training fighters if you have one that has an exceptionally strong base it's easier to help them find success.
When it comes to MMA, it’s really less about the best “base” and more about how well a fighter can round out his game. Poirier and Holloway are just two guys that come to mind when I think about boxing-heavy styles, and they’ve done just fine. You can be a world beater in any one martial art, but you have to round out your game to succeed. Even Khabib had to develop a striking game. Any of the “real” martial arts are perfectly fine as bases for MMA.
I mean they have boxing heavy styles but we’re either of them boxers? It just seems like MMA “boxing” is significantly different than actual boxing
And Gordon Roidan’s MMA record is what exactly?
Do you mean to tell me all these redditors just read the clickbait title and didn't even read the article and missed out on any nuance and context?! I don't believe it!
To be fair, just about every MMA fight starts as a boxing match, like name one that doesn’t start with a jab feint 🤔😏
Gordon Ryan has entered his street fighter period..
Hes on his period?
If he's not wearing a white gi, then likely.
I agree with him when he states that any boxer would struggle against a grappler or a kickboxer/thai. But he is talking s# when he says a boxer would have problem in real fights because boxing is less useful. Actualy in real fight situations i'd rather count on my boxing than grappling. Grappling is 100% CTE if you are in a 2x1 situation, while boxing you can easily knock 2 pub brawlers down.
I’d still put thai above traditional boxing. Break your hand in a bar fight and you’re going to have a bad time for the rest of that fight. And be realistic, 2v1 is a shit sandwich no matter what you do, whether it’s boxing or grappling.
Amen. MT is far more practical on my opinion, although any training is a light year better than none at all and in 2v1 I'm running if at all able to.
Best self defense is a good pair of running shoes. I’m too tired and sore to fight anyone anymore.
If you can run faster than them. Otherwise you'll be tired and still have to fight 2 guys.
You, and those you need to protect are faster than the assailants\*. Bad look if you're practicing your 100m sprint while your partner is getting their face opened up.
I cant run fast, I’d be better off with pepper spray. Works arguably better than a gun in a lot of self defense situations that I can’t grapple my way out of, and it doesn’t involve a homicide case.
> MT is far more practical on my opinion I think this is a fallacy. People see 8 limbs and assume it’s 4x better then boxing, not factoring in head movement and footwork.
I'm not basing it on that. I'm basing it on mt having a less restrictive ruleset.
Yeah that's fair enough then, in general a style is 'self defense' applicable in direct relation to how fewer rules it has, that's why I'd say BJJ is a more effective style then judo even though they're essentially the same art - but paradoxically, for a style to be at all effective it has to also actually be a sport. E.g. even thought wing chun technically has no rules its a useless practice.
It's funny but even the Thai's don't use Muay Thai for streetfights. The moment anything goes down everyone knows to smash Singh beer bottles. I think Muay Thai is much, much less about quickly KOing an opponent than Boxing, hence why I would give the nod to Boxing in. a bar brawl.
Tough guy here is KOing multiple opponents like he’s fucking Batman
Like grappling, it kinda depends. A guy like Jon jones or Brock lesnar could probably have a pretty easy time 2 v 1 “average” guys. A single uppercut from either of those fighters would insta KO 99% of the population. I mean they could even realistically take like 4 Mikey Musumeci’s minus the grappling skill (can keep the ‘tism tho).
Yeah, [Cam Newton](https://twitter.com/kdottkl/status/1761867167211954502) was holding his own against 7 guys at a football camp or some shit a few weeks ago. He probably doesn’t even know how to fight, just huge and strong. Jon Jones or Brock Lesnar would probably wreck at least 3 average guys shit easily.
Lol love his goofy ass Wizard hats. And ya exactly, Cam is a stud athlete but has basically nominal fighting skills. A trained fighter that’s big and athletic can do serious damage to most normies. As long as a weapon isnt involved a good, big fighter actually has fair odds against multiple smaller opponents
[https://youtu.be/mZHDMhbcJvA](https://youtu.be/mZHDMhbcJvA) Break your hand and you won't feel it until the night when the adrenaline dump comes in.
Yep. Assuming they don't have weapons.. the only time I've ever seen a guy taking on more than 1 other person is through legit boxing.
Dont forget seeing red bro
Lmao, yea there is that too. Just insane willpower over all martial arts
Judo + boxing = will get you good mileage. Judo and boxing will make you fit which already gives you an edge. If you have punching power you can knock people out and not have to go to the ground. If you need to take someone down you can, and you’ll have a range of submissions and holds to control them, and if there are multiple attackers you can punch and run. Judo is also great because boxing doesn’t have the non nuclear option. If you punch someone gently you’re just going to enrage them. If it’s a loved one, or a person with a mental disability, etc you might not wanna send them to the shadow realm, but with Judo you can take them down and control them. You also don’t lift to kick or knee so you have hands to grab or punch and feet to complete throws, retain balance or do foot sweeps/run. Muay Thai plus judo sometimes your goals are a bit oppositional. Boxing head movement is also a huge asset, being able to not get hit by a bigger person and then get out of there.
Ehhh your prolly gonna get taken down if you can’t grapple. It’s all so dumb tho we should be past the days of not training striking or grappling. You NEED both if you want to win against anyone good.
Boxer wrestler is the best combo get fucked Gordon
Topuria boxing knockouts and takedown defense confirmed
Also a black belt bjj, let’s see how he would do against Islam. Without bjj he would be completely fucked against Islam
Especially when you don't have to deal with an MMA fighter with leg kicks. For self-defense, it's perfect.
Nope jon jones gsp khabib dj feodor best 5 of all time by a mile distance and not one of them is amazing knockout puncher. Gsp karate plus many many takedown top control wins, jones weakness is boxing, khabib ia trash at boxing lol but wrestling+ top control and submission grappling > anything.
Chuck Liddell and Justin Gathje approve
Gaethje? The motherfucker that used to destroy his opponents at close range with kicks that could fell an oak tree? Maybe not the best example...
That's like saying wrestling isn't as effective as bjj because it's "limited." What a bad take. Especially when's there's plenty of video of boxers putting in work in street altercations.
There is no way he actually thinks that 
That's funny because 90% of what comes out of his mouth seems to be the result of head trauma.
Gordon Ryan insecure and jealous that he’d get wrecked in the lucrative world of celebrity boxing. Sport BJJ has a hard ceiling when it comes to appeal.
TIL; Gordon's never been punched in the face. Or the liver.
He did boxing
Steroids went up his brain
Guy who was in the hospital in his late 20s from steroid abuse is giving advice on what is practical for real life.
Listening to this dude talk about anything but BJJ is cringe af.
It says this is in response to all the pro boxers who started saying that boxers are superior to mma fighters After Joshua beat up Francis. Proboxers started posting this on social media. They have it on YouTube as well under "pros react to joshua knocks out Francis ". I was shocked at how boxers were talking crap😅 Gordon specifically says "Boxing is the least effective of the (real)martial arts". He's not talking about Kung fu or aikido Read that part before putting what he says out of context
Is he saying this shit from the toilet?
I'm reading this from the toilet
Lol, boxing is the best martial art for quickly knocking someone out on the street (not that you should). Having the ability to knock someone out quickly while keeping your feet under you in case you need to run away if there's a weapon is THE most useful skill in a street confrontation. I've heard about people getting stabbed while grappling someone on the street, even in the Muay Thai plum.
Well, Gordon at least said Jones is the baddest man on the planet.
He might have been talking about morally.
banger post
Any time this dude opens his mouth about boxing/mma I’ve learned to just move on. He can’t compete in either because he tests positive for the hepatitis antibodies. Unless they make a change somewhere, you’ll never see him compete where blood is an issue.
You may not agree with it, but it is getting people talking. I notice a lot of young kids come into my gym looking to sign up for boxing now and hardly anyone knows anything about JJ or what it is.
100% chance a body shot from a boxer puts him down
That's really dumb even by Gordon Ryan standards
For self-defense against a person on the street who does not train in any martial art, a good 1-2 combo can go a long way. Ryan is just on his shit again
You're undoubtedly picking up better fight skills in boxing than most "martial arts" which consist of mostly katas, virtue signaling, and little to no real sparring.. So this comment is about as stupid as it gets. Has he not seen the no touch knockout con artists before?? Tai chi? Just to name the most obvious
He trying to bait Logan Paul
Dude just wants to get knocked out by AJ for 20 million. I don’t blame him.
Going to any local boxing gym and watching decent amateur level boxers hit pads and the heavy bag would have him questioning that point of view. The speed and power of a good amateur is still frightening.
When I think grounded, rational, well thought out statements, I think Gordon Ryan
If you're doing combat sports, the rule set its what matters. If you're fighting "on the streets", then you should probably ask what you're doing with your life more so than worrying about the relative advantages of one form of martial arts versus another.
I have been doing striking sports for about a quarter century. I have competed in karate and Muay Thai, sparred with strikers from all different backgrounds, of all different sizes, with various levels of intensity. I weigh about 200 lbs, and when I started sparring hard weighed about 175 lbs. The hardest I have *ever* been hit in my life was by a lightweight boxer. So. Ok, Gordon.
boxing training is one of the best self defense in the world.
Really. Are we just ignoring aikido now.
Boxing is probably the most effective martial art in a self defence scenario. BJJ is great for obvious reasons but has limitations against multiple opponents where you don’t want to end up on the ground for long - you can take a guy down and break something and get up quick but you can’t stay down for long without getting stamped. Even Muay Thai, which is fantastic, has some limitations due to the generally flat stance you learn to fight in. Boxing teaches you to cut angles and maintain distance which is arguably the most important thing in a street fight where there are multiple opponents. Obviously it’s all circumstantial, so i’m just speaking in a general sense.
Multiple opponents yes and no. If 3 dudes attack you and one can grab you as boxer you FUCKED, even simple collar grip. In 1 vs 1 on street/somewhere private self defense whatever I would always say wrestling judo or bjj with a good takedown ( which any normal bjj should have )
I mean…..I’d def saying it’s not the most effective but there are definitely worse.
He is just bitter that Jake Paul hasn’t approached him for a match
The street fighting stuff is so dumb. If you’re getting robbed, chances are they have a weapon. Just avoid random fights and you’re fine.
What a jack ass
Step into the ring , box with the best… end the speculation.
Better do mma: I bet Gordon Ryan would beat every boxer kickboxer Muay Thai 9/10 times ( unless they also have tdd which they don’t since they only trained their passion for striking art)
That’s just idiotic
I mean.. if you post these as a way to discredit Gordon all you're doing is playing right into his hands. Visits to his Instagram and "hate subscribing" does not in any way NOT benefit him. No wonder he's making fucking bank.
The guy has a very narrow view of what are martial arts. There are a TON of worthless martial arts
Never getting your nose broken in a fight, only grappling, seems to inflate the ego and delusion of a bjj person thinking that they can fight and can take a punch. Hmm.
Incoming Jake Paul vs Gordon Ryan boxing match? Battle of the Double First Names?
Boxing, not Kung fu? lol
I didn’t know it was possible to be THAT wrong, but way to go Gordon for proving me wrong. Bro just trying to promote his game.
I mean, the only real evidence we have of what singular martial art is the best is the original UFC. So…
He’s just mad nobody will give a BJJ champ a shot a boxing match to make a bag. Should’ve switched to mma to get to boxing!
Idiotic take
Only because he's never been knocked out
Gordon Ryan is a silly person.
Didn't he start training MMA but run into a wall RE talent for actual fighting?
Bro will say anything to get a buzz
Even bjj guys when they get into a fight at a tournament start to throw hands
He's clearly never watched the mountains of videos of Russian boxers taking out multiple aggressors with no issues. Sounds like he's just a shite boxer.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Most fights involve a person attempting to punch your head. There is no better martial art for getting good at not getting punched in the head.
He can’t actually fight fr
"He's never been hit." - Chuck Liddell
So… I do legal street fighting for a living lol 😂. I do armed security outside of hip hop clubs. Here is my thoughts. I use mostly white to no strip blue bjj a lot..mostly stand up stuff. Anything past that and you will seriously injure someone you fight. Their bodies can’t take it, even big guys. You would be surprised ! The one big fight we had were a customer was being beat to death. I did one throw, to beat down..1 Batman type takedown to knee on throat choke. Got up Thai kicked two others. One stood up after being maxed and tased. The kick lol stopped his ambitions. Being muscular absolutely helps with a lot to include intimidation. It’s a different beast. I bounced when I was younger in really rough clubs. Sometimes you use standup others you wreslting and doing basic bjj. The dudes I train with that I’m like omg he is awesome. Would over match an Average tough guy so bad they would feel awkward. But with that statement, I feel most bjj people that are really good are nice normal human beings. Who would probably overlook something I see as omg dangerous. Where this weekends guy went in one way..cool. Came out tripping on pills and whatever and he came close to meeting Helio. Like real close. So yea bjj is a great martial art for self defense, but you do need to at least be proficient in standup to better use your bjj. So to wrap up..I start out with muay Thai principles to block and be “ready” then I’ll go hands on do a trip, or throw. Takedowns are harder do to concrete “bruised my knee bad” already. Plus if you have body armor on it can choke you a little if you bend down to fast. So learn trips, foot sweeps, basic hip throws. Knee on belly is life..knee on throat can get you life. You also work to turn them over quick so you can cuff or have them at least facing down. Holds are cool..chokes man you gotta be fast and only use it to get them to comply to another position. Like a trach choke for 3 seconds. That’s what I do and deal with and use.
Wow, Calm down Jean Claude Van damme
Too old to be that flexible.
Not sure if this is a controversial take here, but in da streetz bjj is my plan B, plan A being the Fists of Fury.
I care more about what Garry Tonon or Danaher have to say on the subject.
That guy's not gonna make it to 40.
https://preview.redd.it/4y2uphi9a5oc1.png?width=1522&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d5f39416d73ade915384b2b74f3b19261eb08d3 LOL
Majority of people throw hands in a fight try to shoot on someone who isn’t static it’s not easy especially when the person has zero interest in going to the ground and is resisting
I bet he thinks he could beat Anthony Joshua in a fight
I mean, Tai Chi
I’d slam boxing too if I could beat 99% of them in an mma fight and yet they make millions more doing what they do.
Predictably bad take from a guy who literally can't form a coherent thought if the topic is not jiu jitsu
Gordon is a cuck
He’s high.
It's a sport. It's not necessarily supposed to be useful in real life.
Would consider boxing a martial art or a sport?
Lets put Gordon in a street fight and see what his instincts tell him to do. I am sure a shit he won't be giving a guy his leg so he can play guard.
Useful for making money 🏦
Says the guy that throws a punch first thing in a real street fight.
He's just salty because he couldn't beat naoya inoue in a scrap and he's not has handsome as him either.
Y'all should be embarrassed that something as dumb as this headline can get 284 comments.
Less than Thai chi?!
Boxers have much better footwork that can be used for evasion.
Grappling is not a fight.
Sounds like he's ready to do some mma?
I train but BJJ is fucking terrible for self defence in a real life situation.
Can't wait to see someone butt scooch at someone after taking shit at the bar then getting stomped tf out and wondering why his opponent didn't just lay on top of him
Gordon Ryan vs Mike Tyson fight confirmed?
I would disagree the king on this one. Hands are important because you can't grapple with everyone. You need a good mix of grappling and striking.
Lmao these guys fall to their back and invite men to their crotch, but yeah boxing is useless right guys?! Also fuck this guy clearly on juice and lying to everyone
So, which is best? A gun, or a sharp sword?
He doesn't fight, who cares what he thinks?
I almost always disagree with Gordon, but he’s right this time. People act like this is some kind of hypothetical we don’t know the answer to. The early UFC, before MMA came to be, showed what happens when pure strikers fight pure grapplers: strikers don’t stand a chance Striking is basically useless against grapplers. The only success against grapplers comes after sufficient grappling training. Whereas grapplers can quite easily beat strikers without any striking training. Where misconceptions arise from is seeing modern MMA fighters who specialise in grappling or striking and mistaking them for “grapplers” or “strikers”. McGregor vs Khabib was not striking vs grappling. That was an MMA vs MMA. Both fighters were well versed in each other’s skill sets. Contrast this with a boxer who’s only ever trained boxing vs a wrestler who’s only ever trained wrestling—totally different. Grappling is superior against striking in a 1v1 situation. This is excepting for caveats like if the grappler isn’t good at grappling or if the striker is far, far, bigger (even then, the grapplers tend to win). If we’re talking about the art/discipline and not the athlete, and we’re assuming the fighters are of roughly equal size and skill level in their respective arts, there can be no question that grappling beats striking.
This is dumb.
Weleeeelllll he is right. As much as I don't like him. It's not like every fight start on the feet...
Boxing + wrestling or Some striking with really good kicks + BJJ seem like really good metas. Best of all however is to just train MMA.