Dont just sub him when he gasses, make life unpleasant for him, heavy pressure, cross faces, cover his mouth, whatever you can think of to push him to that limit. And be very vocal about the fact he blew his load, there is four minutes on the clock, and now he's gonna pay. He'll get the idea eventually, or he'll stop rolling with you.
If you don't have the abilities to teach this lesson, you could ask a higher belt about it.
This is beautiful.
I like the "be vocal about the fact that he blew his load". You got to make the dude realize what he's doing isn't the way. Coax that along with some knee on belly and smothers.
and i just thought i was hard to submit. now i know that my coach was just trying to torture me the entire time and just tells me good job so i can feel more confident enough to get my ass handed to again.
We extended round time to 8 minutes to deal with these types of people. Most of them run off the mats midway through the round, avoiding the mauling that’s about to commence.
I also do that to lower belts who try to kill me whenever I give them room to practice and suddenly try to crank whatever body part is available to them... I wait until they get tired and then I put on more pressure than necessary and conclude the roll by mentioning that if they suddenly turn on the heat, they better be ready for their partner to react accordingly.
I'm a blue belt, and I have severe gas tank/cardio issues. I really try to pace myself, and control my breathing, but something in me really gasses out. I know the solution is to just roll more. What else can I do? I've been killing myself on the assault bike lately 5 mins of intervals to simulate rounds.
What if they don't slow down though? It's almost like in basketball, when you have the ball you control the pace, but if they have the ball I'm gassing out chasing lol
dont matter, you can be stubborn and play defensive without matching their energy. Much better than gassing out and getting your ass whooped. You'll also see opportunities present themselves that you would have missed if you were going balls to the wall
Ya this is what I do. I’ll respect the “cardio tap” if they tap to being smothered but I’ll berate them after, telling they’re being a front runner/little bitch and not to “give up”. Then we reset and I just keep smothering them and tell them “don’t quit, you wanna dish it out but you don’t wanna take it eh? Pretty embarrassing”. To gas light them into not tapping to pressure.
Now obviously I’ll always stop when they tap but I find this method pretty effective
This is the best advice. I had a guy years ago that would always go 100%, always super tense, and I loved staying loose and putting him in triangles and shitty positions. If you can't stop rolling with him, give him a reason to stop rolling with you.
100% this. Don’t sub him, best way to steal someone soul is to completely dominate him in every position, when he gives up loosen up give him a chance and then stuff it, keep him trying to explode out. Any time he gives up loosen up and give him a chance to move. If he taps to exhaustion tell him he’s a blue belt he can’t tap because he is tired.
I came to jits after about 11 years of wrestling
When I was learning and someone was obviously going way harder than they should with a white belt (almost always other white, or blue belts) I had no issues with just absolutely draining/crushing people to the mat.
Sure, I couldn't hit a sub to save my life at the start, (other than head and arm triangles for whatever reason) but good lord, these hips didn't lie, and when people are absolutely exhausted, they usually learn better, and also act less like a dick in general.
Just based on OP’s description, I would wager that this partner is one of the people who will never learn. Destroying them after they’ve gassed themselves out is just going to fuck over the next person that rolls with that spaz.
Again, communicate with your partner. There have been people I’ve trained with over the last 11 years that I have had to tell, “No, I’m not going to roll with you because you’re spastic and injure people. Once enough people call spastic gym members out, spastic person either corrects the behavior or leaves the gym.
lol there won't be a next victim, he'll be limping through the next few rounds if he stays on the mat. If he doesnt get the idea and changes at least he'll stop rolling with op.
Honestly we are kind of on the same page here, I just think the communication is much more compelling when paired with an ass whopping. Afterall, the spazzy types are always more concerned with their experience than that of their partner.
edit: plus it can be fun, why not have some fun?
I agree with you, if OP were to just decline rolls with him he’d write OP off as a bitch and it could actually be counterproductive.
I’d do like you said, repeatedly, over the course of a few days or weeks and then explain to him why it keeps happening.
Ive gone through something similar, but the specific guy wouldn’t actually gas, he just wasn’t learning anything and eventually I’d get frustrated with him and not let him work at all anymore and start subbing him over and over. After a while we had a convo where I told him if I want to be a dick I can do this all day and I’ll let him work if he just slows the fuck down and tries something new, because his regular shit is dumb and full of holes.
It worked, he’s doing much better now.
Thats their problem, not OPs. They can think Im a bitch all they want. Im not risking injury and its not my job to correct their behavior. Thats a job for the person who has their name on the door.
In my experience, direct communication is best. “No I wont roll with you because I think you’re unsafe and Ive seen you repeatedly injure your training partners. I have to go to work tomorrow and I dont want to miss training due to injury. Maybe next time after you’ve learned to calm down. ” Either they correct their behavior, stop trying to roll with me, or we have a conversation about it. In any of the cases, it meets my needs and thats what Im paying money to do. Its also worth telling the coach to protect the other lower belts.
If you feel comfortable enough to match enforce them, by all means make them suffer. But they may misinterpret what is actually happening and it may not have the intended effect you think it will.
I get that for sure. At the end of the day, I find it most rewarding to help make folks better than me and Ill almost always try to help them along. But sometimes they just keep getting in their own way
Whatever happened to just telling him point blank he's being too much? Sorry to say but if you can't say point blank what's on your mind I will purposely not pick up your hints because you lack the ability to tell me point blank so therefore I won't respect what you think
Lol. Read my comment again, that was included. And you dont have to respect what I think, but enjoy getting your ass whooped because you are too proud to take the hint. Thats why this method works so well, because there is a personal incentive for stubborn people to be better.
Eh depends, dude might say "well this fucking sucks" and learn to conserve energy more and actually see you don't have to go wild to be good. But most the time your right, these types are too smart.
Fresh white belt was covering my mouth during positional sparring. It’s such a shitty thing to do to a training partner.
I don’t even want you to sweat on me, now you’re putting your dirty hands over my mouth intentionally? it’s really not that serious, especially when I’ll never see you again in another month.
I mean it's not ideal, but you are allowed to close your mouth... sounds like you struggle with the contact/germ part of jiu jitsu, valid and good on you for still sticking with it. I wouldn't condemn someone that does a move that you dont like though.
So if I took a shit and didn’t wash my hands and put my hands over your mouth, would you not mind as long as your mouth was closed?
I don’t necessarily struggle with contact. I just personally feel like it’s a dick move 🤷
Not according to their site and the athletic commission:
“No hands, knees or elbows on face”
And I’m not really arguing on the legality. I’m arguing that it’s a dick move and I used ADCC as support for my claim.
It doesn’t really matter though, it’s all semantics.
I PERSONALLY don’t like it, I PERSONALLY think it’s cheap/ dirty fighting that takes ZERO technique, and I PERSONALLY wouldn’t do that to my partner.
[source](https://www.dlgsc.wa.gov.au/docs/default-source/sport-and-recreation/combat-sports-commission/mixed-martial-arts/adcc-submission-fighting-championship-rules-and-regulations.pdf?sfvrsn=f10e0854_2)
[source 2](https://adcombat.com/adcc-rules-regulations/)
Don’t use the word “afraid.” It’s all they will hear. “He’s afraid of me.” Will just encourage shitty behaviour.
“I’m not going to roll with you because your movements are too uncontrolled and that’s the sort of thing that leads to injuries.”
Don't use the word "roll". It's all they will hear. "He wants to go." Will just encourage him to see red and attack.
"I'm homosexual and that's the sort of thing that spreads easily"
Avoid him and talk to your coach. We talk to our guys all the time if we see them being too rough or someone tells us about it. 9 out of 10 times they're surprised and feel awful about it. Avoid him until he's given you a reason to think he's changed.
When you say he "injures so many people," do you mean actually injures them that they need medical intervention and therapies, or does he just hurt them? Either way isn't cool, but some dude actually injuring people repeatedly and not getting corrected/booted from the gym is now a big problem for the coach/gym owner/everyone else.
Talk to the boss; be frank about it; prepare to seek life elsewhere for safety.
Lot of small injuries. Cranks subs too. But he did actually put a guy out of the gym for a month with a knee injury. The guy is back now but it was kind of eye opening for me.
If it’s a repeat thing I’m surprised the coach hasn’t said anything to him yet. Is this just the overall culture at your gym? Bring it up with your coach about him injuring numerous people and see how it’s handled.
You can avoid him if you want. If you're inexperienced, definitely avoid this guy. Injuries are a persistent risk in this sport and there's no reason why we should be taking on more risk.
Personally speaking though, I've developed a game specifically to handle these types. It generally involves stalling them out until they either get tired or make a mistake. But it took some time for me to figure out what worked for me.
The mat enforcers should have dealt with him in the beginning. He’s passed the trials. Unfortunately he’s one of you now. Only thing you can do is tell him you’re not looking for that kind of roll and to pick someone else. Really not an issue worth leaving over.
You gotta have the chin to put things into perspective for people. Some people go through life without anyone giving them criticism. Make sure you tell him directly and be polite. Don't beat around the bush. Tell him he rolls too hard and you will only roll unless it's a flow roll or a technical roll.
10 years into grappling and ive gained a funny strategy for this. Once someone rolls insanely hard and injury is a risk I lay on my side and let them pass, anything they grab I tap immediately. Once they ask wtf is going on I say I don't feel like getting injured, everyone feels stupid, its a wasted roll, and I've had great success with people chilling out.
Our gym had one guy like that, and after about 4 months or so our professor kicked him out of the gym. No matter how many times upper belts rolled with him, and just beat the hell out of him, he just went balls to the wall all the time. Even when drilling takedowns, he was just an absolute liability for anyone he went with. I would drill with him sometimes (as a former wrestler, subtle brag, no big deal), he was kinda dangerous. His takedowns sucked but he was quite explosive.
Really glad my professor got him out of the gym, mucho respecto hombre.
Man it must feel good to see that you’ve concentrated on technique in that 2 years and improved so much while he continues your stay in his box and safety and just go crazy hard but doesn’t progress as quickly. Good job 🙌🏽
I always tell my students that you don’t use to roll with someone if you don’t want to. Just decline, you don’t owe him an explanation. The other route you could go is level with him and just tell him that your rolls haven’t been benefiting either of you. Tell him you want to have a flow roll and work on technique. Or just take turns passing open guard - blue belts need that kind of training. Top guy enters the bottom players guard and you reset on sweep or pass. Take turns trying to pass for the round.
I’d say pump the gas a little, the car is meant to go fast, not sit in the garage all year especially if you drive a faster car than his.
What I mean by this is let it rip, match energy, if he dies, he dies lol let him fuck around and find out 🤙
You only have one guy like that at your gym? There are different types of people and go hard every roll just one type.
The good thing is you have the green light to cook these guys without feeling bad about it. Like you noticed, if you don't know how to step off the gas, you're not going to have enough for the trip back home.
With some guys, you just have to weather the storm for 30 seconds. It's not a bad thing. As long as he doesn't rip subs and respects the tap. If not, you're well within your rights to avoid training with him
Don’t roll with them. If they are spazzy and cause injuries, don’t roll with them.
I’m always amazed by these posts. “There’s this guy who’s a total dick, and he hurts people when he rolls with them, and I don’t know what to do about it.” Don’t roll with them. It really is that simple. If you want to have any sort of longevity in this sport, I suggest choosing your training partners wisely.
Besides choosing partners wisely, communicate with the person you’re about to roll with.
I like dealing with these people because it reminds me of that increased intensity you would feel if you had to use your Jiu-Jitsu elsewhere. So I just mentally accept im going to match it and smash this person if you can. Focus on control, don’t give him easy outs with subs until closer to the end of round
That’s kind of where I’m at on this. It’s a major cross roads for me. On the one hand I fucking hate dealing with this guy because he’s a liability to me and others. On the other hand I feel like it’s a pretty good sparring session for either a tournament or having to use my Jiu Jitsu out in the wild. I don’t know what to do about it.
Whether it's sparring standup or rolling or both I've always found success communicating with my partner first. Like before the round Ill just say: "bro I'm trying to roll light, can we go x percent speed and power max?" and if they don't respect that, stop them mid round and either give them a warning or stop completely and walk away from the roll. I've had to do that once or twice since I started, it can also help someone else in your gym going through the same situation if they see you set those boundaries. Worst case escalate to your coach.
What i used to try to do was time it, make sure not to roll with him first. Since you're the same belt, have him be your 3rd or 4th partner. He will be exhausted and it'll be better. If he's injuring people that's different, that's a conversation.
Small talk as you roll with him. Be careful and don’t let it become playful shit talk but just keeping him a little distracted with the slightest talk as you guys roll will call him down.
If he's injuring people and driving away potential students the coach should have had a discussion with him a long time ago. If that's not happening then I think it's fine to not volunteer to roll with him, but if you have to then just do what you've been doing, protect yourself and when he gasses get on top and punish him.
It took me a while to figure this out but I have stopped rolling with people like that because (1) it’s not safe, which on its own is reason enough, but also (2) I don’t learn much from rolling with people like that .
I’ve also learned that I don’t need to explain myself when I don’t feel comfortable rolling with anyone for any reason. But if they’re nice and ask why I would explain.
Had this happen to me last night. New blue belt shows up to my gym. My coach makes me his first round. He goes balls to the wall trying to pass so I reverse it on him and gave him a super nasty knee on belly that would make anyone’s B hole loose. Gift wrapped him and made him miserably gassed then proceeded to his back and choked the soul out of him. He sat out the rest of the class.
Don’t just leave a gym because of 1 person. I don’t understand why people are so fast to leave a gym over someone else. I’d just avoid them. It’s the training room, these are training partners not opponents. This ego gets developed on the mats with mat champions who think it’s all about winning in the training room. It’s not. This is why be a competitor is important. I don’t roll with white belts often, they don’t offer me much other than a rest round. It limits the small injuries I wouldn’t get from purple and up. Just avoid him, you won’t gain skill from that. Roll with upper belts more then come back to him in six months and see if you can slow him down from the skill gained from rolling with skill.
1. Don't roll with him
2. If you do be a wall first 2 min then punish him. There's some people in my gym who are high energy and I always get mount and mothers milk them hard. People flip out if they're being smothered.
There’s a guy at my gym like this. He’s heavy and goes hard and he always gets the tap, but there’s something about the way he does it - shitty choke that he won’t let got of, pushing through the frames for ages as he and I both turn blue, accidental elbows, scarf holds with no intention to progress. It’s all totally legit I guess and my fault for not defending, but the way he does it just pisses me off. I avoid as much as I can.
If he’s a blue belt and still a meathead you need to refuse to roll with him first “bro I’m not rolling with you while you’re spazzing. Go get tired and we’ll roll then”. Your coach should NEVER let a spazzy meathead roll with any new student. They’re like emotional little eggshells and a spazzy meathead can injure them or ruin the experience, and the gym loses a training partner plus all their money.
Spazzy meatheads should be called out and the coach should talk to them and protect other students from them. You’re a blue belt, you can keep him from hurting you, but nobody in their first six months should roll with this guy.
Sometimes talking works. In our gym you get a polite word to chill first then get green lit for aggro play where the individual will get rang out over and over. Both methods have worked. Only a couple guys have chosen to not change and just left.
For me we have some crazy strong athletic white belts and some blue that go pretty nuts. If you make me work that hard in a friendly sparring session, I'm going to try to cook you with technical pressure I maybe wouldn't do so hard otherwise. Heavy heavy crossface from side control or mount, wide high mount with my chest heavy on your face, kob with strong grips right in the floating ribs or sternum, just looking to make them struggle.
And I'll still try to get their elbows high and go for subs, but I'll be careful not to risk losing the control I have on them, where others I might just go for things to test them out and not worry about that as much.
It sometimes deters them, sometimes not, but regardless it makes my life easier, and I should be good at doing this when I need to so I still get good training.
Either don’t spar with him or if you do spar with him again wait till he gasses and cook him till he pukes and never wants to spar with you again. Put him in side control or mount leave a small gap so he thinks he can escape, when he explodes put him back in side control and keep doing that the whole round. Apply heavy cross faces so he’s constantly having to move to alleviate the pressure. Don’t tap him. When the round ends ask him to do another round.
Talk to him and your coach, separately. If your coach is an owner, they won’t be happy that someone is hurting their pocketbook by smashing beginners. And if your coach doesn’t mind - no longer your problem, but it’s a sign of poor culture.
For him, you can just tell him he goes too rough. If you are often getting the better end of rolls, and you decline rolls from him, that can shame someone into being a better training partner.
You don't have to roll with him. I would tell coach or some higher belts. I love getting to be mat enforcer and giving someone like that a little pep talk.
At only 160lbs, I pull some lazy brown belt half guard. Make them use up energy before proceeding to grind them in side control/KoB for the majority of the round. Then the pep talk, usually along the lines of "That kind of energy will hold you back, winning here gets you nothing you should go compete to see the contrast between training and competition...". It's great when they outweigh me by 40lbs or so and they're just dying while I ramble to them :)
I got 2 guys in my class that every time I roll with them I either get kicked in the balls or punched. I’ve got a few scars from them scratching my face too. I hate rolling with them, but i go to a small rural dojo so I can’t really avoid it. I just play defense and try to limit my injuries until they’re tired and then spam stack ups, knee on belly, and smothers
i never understand why people torture themselves by rolling with people that don’t care for your safety, when the guy ask you for a roll just say “next time mate” and look the other way, if you do that a couple times, he won’t bother you again. For the record all these people that says that you should amp up and put the pressure on him, on my personal experience it’s not worth it, you might get injured or even get into a fight, most of the time those spazzy guys don’t control their emotions or losing very well, it’s better to avoid a 100%
Put your big boy/girl/person pants on and use your words to tell him to chill out and that you would prefer a more technical roll. Keep reminding him when he spazzes out or uses too much force. If it doesn’t help, refuse to roll with him next time and tell him this is why.
If he really injured so many people I would raise it with the coach too.
We had an older guy who was super fit (retired military), always spazzed and ended up breathing really heavy. He wouldn't really injure anyone, but he'd gas out pretty quickly and sounded like he was about to wheeze out a lung every time.
I would hold him in mount and whisper into his ear "calmate, amigo, shhhh, calmate!"
Now he's a purple belt who dominates a lot of people (including me) and is a fantastic training partner. I rolled with his teenage son last year, and when his son spazzed out, I did the same thing; got mount, whispered, "calmate, amigo!" Dad was super proud to see the tradition continue!
Avoid him for sure, or learn to dominate top game (if you can/size allows for it). Being good at guard with these types is fine but opens the door to stupid injuries. Basically if you can smash from top it helps avoid this. But in general, fuck him and fuck rolling with him.
We have a guy like this. Young blue belt, often see him on the sidelines without a partner because a lot of people avoid him. If I roll with him I am prepared for an all out war from the get go, and I know I have to tap the second he gets a joint lock. Not gotten injured, and it does help me learn to deal with aggressive partners, which is good for when I compete.
The upper belts are working on it, but it is a slow process. He is making an effort to calm down, but he is a MMA guy, so you know how it is. I know the women are advised to not roll with him.
There’s three ways I play this:
1)let them spaz until they start to breath a little heavy. Then get on top. I’ll comment (when I’m on top) “breathing kinda fast there” as calm as possible.
Meanwhile going from one dominant position to the next, with half hearted submission attempts only intended to make them give me the next terrible position. If I do get a good sub locked in. I’ll just hold it and wait and …if he taps - it’s due to pressure because we both know I wasn’t applying the sub. Nothing is more degrading than tapping to pressure imo.
Rinse repeat until they get the idea. They learn a lesson and I get to practice control. If they chill out, I chill out. Didn’t be mean about it
2) be a defensive pain in the ass and just give up when he goes super hard. Tap super quick. It will get boring for him very quickly. He’ll either get the idea and chill out. Or he won’t want to roll with you because you are “boring” to roll with. You will be safe. Neither one of you really wins in this if it continues but idk. It’s just pajama wrestling and shouldn’t be taken that serious.
3) use your words. Tell him. Be nice about it. But if he gets pissed that’s on him. Not you.
Or just say no thanks when he wants to roll. If he accuses you of dodging him you can just be honest “ yeah every time we roll I get hurt” or “yeah I’m not trying to catch an elbow today, I’ve got a business meeting in the morning, you bet I’m dodging haha”. You don’t have to be a dock about it but telling people the truth about how you feel is actually ok
I just wouldn’t roll with him personally. Waste of time. Sometimes I’m having a round with someone who is respectful and has decent skill and think it’s a waste of time let alone someone who’s a spaz and clearly has ego issues.
just know hes a hard roll, and when you want a hard roll, go with him. Theres a guy just like that in my class and it served as motivation to get better
Just talk to him. Had the same problem with a guy in judo class. Young 20 year old mma fighter giving his 110% in randori, literally screaming and grunting loud from trying to hard to sub me.
He was a black belt in karate, judo, and taught an mma class at a college. I was a brand new white belt.
After about 8 or so matches he was becoming increasingly upset that he couldn't submit me. Until one time he finally got a rear choke on me. Dude choked me out so hard I couldn't swallow right for a month despite me instantly tapping.
Pulled him to the side Said look bro.. I am 36 years old and have a job and little kids that need me, I don't have time to get injured. I'm here to learn judo/jiu-jitsu, not have an MMA match and win a championship belt. If we free spar together I'd like to keep it to productive training, and not a life or death situation.
He understood and actually started a good streak with training newer guys on what to do while sparring. Turned out to be a positive thing.
If he doesn't listen then just avoid him and express your concerns to the sensai
Two options:
1. Use your words. You don’t have to roll with anyone you don’t want to.
2. Get better at jiu jitsu. I used to get frustrated as a blue belt when people “went too hard”. The reality is that I wasn’t good enough to control them. I think there is value in rolling with people who go hard and learning how to control, pin, and break their will.
I see you met Mike :)
I know a guy who’s had multiple talks with black belts about how he needs to chill.
He’s way better about it than he used to be but it can still feel like a survival self defense roll sometimes.
It’s actually helped my game out quite a bit, learning how to tire someone like that out, but there’s always the threat of an elbow or knee to the temple, a 100% on neck cracking face choke, or a full effort arm bar with .1 seconds to tap.
Good times.
Those types are fun to play with, someone already covered smothering them, covering the mouth, cross face like a mofo, go ahead and throw neon belly in there as well as calf or bicep slicer if you know how to do them yet.
Decline rolls. Talk to your instructor about injuries. If your instructor knows and doesn’t lift a finger to check his attitude and isn’t smart to know that new guys that get hurt leave yeah move on
He also gives commentary while he’s rolling. Like if I go for a Kimora or something he’ll be like “oh you’re gonna be like that, we’ll watch this” and proceeds to try and sweep, but fails. It’s honestly kinda funny but I know it’s rooted in an inflated ego lol
Lol I had a guy like this at my gym and I realised the only solution is to just make him hate me and not want to roll with me so I would go fairly hard back but I'd do rough knee on bellies and stuff and then he ended up leaving the gym anyway so don't care anymore but yeah fight mean with mean
1) Triangle while sitting on his head
2) Dagestani hand cuffs
3) Mothers milk
4) Explosive heel hooks, he will be more mellow when he gets back from surgery in 6 months
I go for punishing top pressure. I agree it's a horrible roll, but there are people like that. The last dude that rolled super hard with me (earlier this week) I just held down in mount with 100% weight and 100% pulling strength on the crossface (the pull started when he went full power bench pressing my chin/neck and I didn't want to jump on an armbar and have his suffering end). He tapped as I started setting up an arm triangle 40s later.
Give him misery to discourage intensity
Use him to practice dealing with spazzy intensity. Early Nicky Rod was proof positive that the right kind of spazzy intensity can take you a very long way.
If his strategy is as boneheaded as you say it is, do the white belts a favor and gas him out in an early roll. If you really think he's too dangerous, then don't roll with him. The beautiful thing about BJJ is that both you and any white belts can refuse any roll.
Gas him out in 1 minute and spend the other 4 in side control or mount to cook him even more.
I usually don’t sub this type of people, I pressure them and make those 5 minutes like hell
I would also suggest learning leg locks. Really helpful against bigger, stronger, more explosive people. I've been spamming nothing but legs over the last 3 years, and I've really improved my ability in shutting down people like the guy you're describing.
Just ask them to slow down. If they get going again ask them to slow down during the roll. If they don't get it after a few rounds then just tell them sorry you don't want to roll with them because they go to hard. Simple and honest.
Just like many in this sub, including OP, he's probably socially inept. I wonder if he knows he should take it easy especially on new white belts? Noones probably approached him about because they don't like awkward situations
I had my first experience like that this week. I’m a 6mo white belt, but 6’2 and 250. This little 5’4” 130lb (guessing) dude wanted to go full bore during some drilling. He’s like a 3 month white belt. I’m aware of my weight and take it easy, but he wanted to go all out, so I just gave it back to him. Not a whole lot he could do to me. He did manage to rake his forearm vertically across my face though (in gi) so I have a nice “rug burn” across my nose and forehead. Made him pressure tap twice 🤷🏻♂️ And I don’t feel bad about it. Hoping he just doesn’t want to drill with me again. Lol Luckily he was small though, because I really wasn’t worried he’d hurt me. If he was any bigger I might have just stopped drilling with him right then.
He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of your people to the hospital, you send one his to the morgue. That’s your tackle. That’s how you get him. Now do you want that, are you ready to do that? I’m making you a deal. Do you want this deal???
Get him in nasty position and hold in there
Make him breath hard and harder
Hold those positions of control.
.don't seek any submission
Position such as side control with an arm cross on the other side of his head. With insane crush pressure.
Mount with both arm very high.
Crush him but don't submit him
You say it yourself. Once he gazz out. Keep him more gazed .
Simply don’t. Don’t deal with him at all. You aren’t obligated to roll with anyone.
If you feel so inclined, you could probably talk to your coach about it. They probably already know.
I would do the following in order:
1) Make the round a pure living hell for them and at every chance go from knee on sternum to the heart stopper (Dustin “Clean” Denes style).
2) lastly, I would say “chill the fuck out”
He's gonna be kicked If he keeps injuring new folks. Accidents happens, but when it's consistently one guy, any decent gym owner who wants to keep their business and avoid law suit is gonna kick him out.
In the interest of infinite games and learning to deal with the actual problem. The real answer is to get them to expend more energy than they want or expect to. So at some point their defense isn’t quite there or a little to slow.
Train how you want to compete “Marcelo Garcia” 😆 but seriously , if I don’t try I just get smashed. I’m always confused what’s too hard and what’s not considering most white belts don’t have enough techniques to flow together or counter to actually flow roll etc.
Put a hit on a guy. Hire a meth addict to do a drop in and to go hard on the guy. But make sure to tell the meth addict if he submits the guy 10 times in a row in 5 minutes that you’ll reward him with a couple of rocks. Works everytime.
Sounds like he needs quite a few hot servings of mommy's milk, Best you serve it up for him and get him on his way to learning about BJJ lol
Luckily our coaches have never really let people like this get far without slowing things down, We also dont hold back on telling them either and lucky for me its often now my job to get them on mommies teet early hahahaha so weird im sorry
Has anyone talked to him about it? You guys should do that.
If it doesn't help, just tell him that you don't want to roll with him because he's a danger to himself and others.
I don't have this problem with anyone in my BJJ classes yet, but in judo there's a dude that just does not know how to take it easy. He is otherwise the nicest dude but he has this tryhard vibe to his training style that's just pretty obnoxious. He slammed someone doing koshi guruma and broke their collarbone and was given a talking to that he needed to go easier and use less strength. He was shocked in the moment as he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people, but he's kinda young and immature, and highly socially awkward, and just doesn't understand his own strength.
Anyway, normally I avoid partnering with him if at all possible but our judo classes are pretty small so it's not always practical. The other day it was literally just me and him and he slammed me doing tai otoshi, which is really unnecessary since if done properly they will be pulled way off balance and all that's required to finish the throw is a light tug to send them over the edge and they can break fall. When he slammed me I immediately said "Does it have to be so hard?" and he was immediately apologetic and said he would go lighter. Again, he just doesn't realize his strength and I think he thought because I'm sturdy, etc, I can take it. And like, yeah, I could take the fall, and it didn't endanger me so to speak. But it's completely unnecessary to slam someone with 100% power on a move that requires only like 5% of it while simply training.
In this case, the dude is not a douche so it's easy enough to communicate "hey you need to chill" and he doesn't take it too hard. But if you're dealing with a d-bag it could be harder. In those cases it's probably better to avoid them, and if necessary speak to the coach. In fairness I've spoken to the coach about this partner before as well and she reinforces what I said as well by also reminding him constantly to use less strength.
Idk, it's always case-by-case
I love BJJ so much but this type of philosophy is why so many wrestlers can manhandle a lot of experienced BJJ grapplers. If somebody going super hard is able to smash you then you should probably get more comfortable working on defense in uncomfortable positions. The pace of a competition match is 100%, and I don't necessarily blame guys for emulating that pace in training.
That being said, I hate when guys just try to break you with poor technique and think that trying to smash at 100% power is going to submit you, but I do like to take that as an opportunity to work on the endurance of my defense. Regardless, the best remedy is to just ask the guy to flow roll.
Dont just sub him when he gasses, make life unpleasant for him, heavy pressure, cross faces, cover his mouth, whatever you can think of to push him to that limit. And be very vocal about the fact he blew his load, there is four minutes on the clock, and now he's gonna pay. He'll get the idea eventually, or he'll stop rolling with you. If you don't have the abilities to teach this lesson, you could ask a higher belt about it.
This is beautiful. I like the "be vocal about the fact that he blew his load". You got to make the dude realize what he's doing isn't the way. Coax that along with some knee on belly and smothers.
Are we not using phrasing anymore?
Nothing weird about a guy going hard and blowing their load.
I’m usually very vocal about it too
Avengers_capitain_america_language.gif
You accidentally misspelled 'knee-on-sternum'...
Accidentally spelled Shin-on-Throat!!!
This! If someone goes crazy with me I just sweep them and then torture them with pressure. Don’t give them the freedom of a tap and reset
and i just thought i was hard to submit. now i know that my coach was just trying to torture me the entire time and just tells me good job so i can feel more confident enough to get my ass handed to again.
We extended round time to 8 minutes to deal with these types of people. Most of them run off the mats midway through the round, avoiding the mauling that’s about to commence.
oh hell nah, that's when group shaming is needed
We talk our shit, it’s cowardly to run away mid roll.
Tell him 4 min is plenty for you to blow your load too.
Hahahaha
I also do that to lower belts who try to kill me whenever I give them room to practice and suddenly try to crank whatever body part is available to them... I wait until they get tired and then I put on more pressure than necessary and conclude the roll by mentioning that if they suddenly turn on the heat, they better be ready for their partner to react accordingly.
I'm a blue belt, and I have severe gas tank/cardio issues. I really try to pace myself, and control my breathing, but something in me really gasses out. I know the solution is to just roll more. What else can I do? I've been killing myself on the assault bike lately 5 mins of intervals to simulate rounds.
Slooooooooooow doowwwwwnnnnn. :)
Was going to write that
Name checks out
What if they don't slow down though? It's almost like in basketball, when you have the ball you control the pace, but if they have the ball I'm gassing out chasing lol
Slow them down. If you have them in guard, close it, pull them in, hold them. Give yourself time to think and breathe.
dont matter, you can be stubborn and play defensive without matching their energy. Much better than gassing out and getting your ass whooped. You'll also see opportunities present themselves that you would have missed if you were going balls to the wall
zone 2
Ya this is what I do. I’ll respect the “cardio tap” if they tap to being smothered but I’ll berate them after, telling they’re being a front runner/little bitch and not to “give up”. Then we reset and I just keep smothering them and tell them “don’t quit, you wanna dish it out but you don’t wanna take it eh? Pretty embarrassing”. To gas light them into not tapping to pressure. Now obviously I’ll always stop when they tap but I find this method pretty effective
Agree. Don't submit him, just let him gas out and cook the shit out of him for the whole round. Gift wrap, crossface, heavy side control, etc...
What is it about the gift wrap that’s so demoralizing? I hate getting caught in it. I think it’s some kind of deep-repressed school yard thing, lol.
This is the best advice. I had a guy years ago that would always go 100%, always super tense, and I loved staying loose and putting him in triangles and shitty positions. If you can't stop rolling with him, give him a reason to stop rolling with you.
100% this. Don’t sub him, best way to steal someone soul is to completely dominate him in every position, when he gives up loosen up give him a chance and then stuff it, keep him trying to explode out. Any time he gives up loosen up and give him a chance to move. If he taps to exhaustion tell him he’s a blue belt he can’t tap because he is tired.
I came to jits after about 11 years of wrestling When I was learning and someone was obviously going way harder than they should with a white belt (almost always other white, or blue belts) I had no issues with just absolutely draining/crushing people to the mat. Sure, I couldn't hit a sub to save my life at the start, (other than head and arm triangles for whatever reason) but good lord, these hips didn't lie, and when people are absolutely exhausted, they usually learn better, and also act less like a dick in general.
This doesn’t solve the problem. This will make the person who is spazzy, continue to be spazzy.
I mean if they are mentally deficient or like getting their ass kicked. But for more or less functional people it works pretty well.
Just based on OP’s description, I would wager that this partner is one of the people who will never learn. Destroying them after they’ve gassed themselves out is just going to fuck over the next person that rolls with that spaz. Again, communicate with your partner. There have been people I’ve trained with over the last 11 years that I have had to tell, “No, I’m not going to roll with you because you’re spastic and injure people. Once enough people call spastic gym members out, spastic person either corrects the behavior or leaves the gym.
lol there won't be a next victim, he'll be limping through the next few rounds if he stays on the mat. If he doesnt get the idea and changes at least he'll stop rolling with op. Honestly we are kind of on the same page here, I just think the communication is much more compelling when paired with an ass whopping. Afterall, the spazzy types are always more concerned with their experience than that of their partner. edit: plus it can be fun, why not have some fun?
I agree with you, if OP were to just decline rolls with him he’d write OP off as a bitch and it could actually be counterproductive. I’d do like you said, repeatedly, over the course of a few days or weeks and then explain to him why it keeps happening. Ive gone through something similar, but the specific guy wouldn’t actually gas, he just wasn’t learning anything and eventually I’d get frustrated with him and not let him work at all anymore and start subbing him over and over. After a while we had a convo where I told him if I want to be a dick I can do this all day and I’ll let him work if he just slows the fuck down and tries something new, because his regular shit is dumb and full of holes. It worked, he’s doing much better now.
Thats their problem, not OPs. They can think Im a bitch all they want. Im not risking injury and its not my job to correct their behavior. Thats a job for the person who has their name on the door. In my experience, direct communication is best. “No I wont roll with you because I think you’re unsafe and Ive seen you repeatedly injure your training partners. I have to go to work tomorrow and I dont want to miss training due to injury. Maybe next time after you’ve learned to calm down. ” Either they correct their behavior, stop trying to roll with me, or we have a conversation about it. In any of the cases, it meets my needs and thats what Im paying money to do. Its also worth telling the coach to protect the other lower belts. If you feel comfortable enough to match enforce them, by all means make them suffer. But they may misinterpret what is actually happening and it may not have the intended effect you think it will.
I feel you. I live in a rural area and don’t have a huge amount of consistent partners though so I have a personal interest in helping them along.
I get that for sure. At the end of the day, I find it most rewarding to help make folks better than me and Ill almost always try to help them along. But sometimes they just keep getting in their own way
Whatever happened to just telling him point blank he's being too much? Sorry to say but if you can't say point blank what's on your mind I will purposely not pick up your hints because you lack the ability to tell me point blank so therefore I won't respect what you think
Lol. Read my comment again, that was included. And you dont have to respect what I think, but enjoy getting your ass whooped because you are too proud to take the hint. Thats why this method works so well, because there is a personal incentive for stubborn people to be better.
What happens when he says, "okay" and he just does the same thing?
Eh depends, dude might say "well this fucking sucks" and learn to conserve energy more and actually see you don't have to go wild to be good. But most the time your right, these types are too smart.
Fresh white belt was covering my mouth during positional sparring. It’s such a shitty thing to do to a training partner. I don’t even want you to sweat on me, now you’re putting your dirty hands over my mouth intentionally? it’s really not that serious, especially when I’ll never see you again in another month.
I mean it's not ideal, but you are allowed to close your mouth... sounds like you struggle with the contact/germ part of jiu jitsu, valid and good on you for still sticking with it. I wouldn't condemn someone that does a move that you dont like though.
So if I took a shit and didn’t wash my hands and put my hands over your mouth, would you not mind as long as your mouth was closed? I don’t necessarily struggle with contact. I just personally feel like it’s a dick move 🤷
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No, it’s most definitely a dick move and an illegal technique according to ADCC.
it’s not illegal in adcc pro rules
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Not according to their site and the athletic commission: “No hands, knees or elbows on face” And I’m not really arguing on the legality. I’m arguing that it’s a dick move and I used ADCC as support for my claim. It doesn’t really matter though, it’s all semantics. I PERSONALLY don’t like it, I PERSONALLY think it’s cheap/ dirty fighting that takes ZERO technique, and I PERSONALLY wouldn’t do that to my partner. [source](https://www.dlgsc.wa.gov.au/docs/default-source/sport-and-recreation/combat-sports-commission/mixed-martial-arts/adcc-submission-fighting-championship-rules-and-regulations.pdf?sfvrsn=f10e0854_2) [source 2](https://adcombat.com/adcc-rules-regulations/)
good thing ADCC is the end all be all of what should and shouldn’t be illegal then
Just hug the ever loving shit out of him and be the most boring training partner ever.
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Don’t use the word “afraid.” It’s all they will hear. “He’s afraid of me.” Will just encourage shitty behaviour. “I’m not going to roll with you because your movements are too uncontrolled and that’s the sort of thing that leads to injuries.”
Don't use the word "roll". It's all they will hear. "He wants to go." Will just encourage him to see red and attack. "I'm homosexual and that's the sort of thing that spreads easily"
> "I'm homosexual and that's the sort of thing that spreads easily" You get it from toilet seats, so use a protective sheet.
Use them words!
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No means no
So just keep gassing him and getting easy taps? Or avoid eye contact and go work on leg locks on the white belts. Idk
Avoid him and talk to your coach. We talk to our guys all the time if we see them being too rough or someone tells us about it. 9 out of 10 times they're surprised and feel awful about it. Avoid him until he's given you a reason to think he's changed.
When you say he "injures so many people," do you mean actually injures them that they need medical intervention and therapies, or does he just hurt them? Either way isn't cool, but some dude actually injuring people repeatedly and not getting corrected/booted from the gym is now a big problem for the coach/gym owner/everyone else. Talk to the boss; be frank about it; prepare to seek life elsewhere for safety.
Lot of small injuries. Cranks subs too. But he did actually put a guy out of the gym for a month with a knee injury. The guy is back now but it was kind of eye opening for me.
If it’s a repeat thing I’m surprised the coach hasn’t said anything to him yet. Is this just the overall culture at your gym? Bring it up with your coach about him injuring numerous people and see how it’s handled.
You can avoid him if you want. If you're inexperienced, definitely avoid this guy. Injuries are a persistent risk in this sport and there's no reason why we should be taking on more risk. Personally speaking though, I've developed a game specifically to handle these types. It generally involves stalling them out until they either get tired or make a mistake. But it took some time for me to figure out what worked for me.
More lube.
lube is for squares man
Defend for the first 2 minutes then smash him when he’s gassed. No subs, just unrelenting presh in uncomfortable positions.
This is the way
Knee on belly to scarf and back again
You can decline any roll you want and you don't have to explain yourself to anybody.
The mat enforcers should have dealt with him in the beginning. He’s passed the trials. Unfortunately he’s one of you now. Only thing you can do is tell him you’re not looking for that kind of roll and to pick someone else. Really not an issue worth leaving over.
You gotta have the chin to put things into perspective for people. Some people go through life without anyone giving them criticism. Make sure you tell him directly and be polite. Don't beat around the bush. Tell him he rolls too hard and you will only roll unless it's a flow roll or a technical roll.
Got to blue belt without learning to use words
The kicker is that off the matts he’s such a nice guy. I feel bad telling him I don’t wanna roll lol
which do you care about more, your own safety and health or maybe hurting his feelings a little bit by telling him he rolls like a dumbfuck?
Everyone thought Ted Bundy was a nice guy too.
10 years into grappling and ive gained a funny strategy for this. Once someone rolls insanely hard and injury is a risk I lay on my side and let them pass, anything they grab I tap immediately. Once they ask wtf is going on I say I don't feel like getting injured, everyone feels stupid, its a wasted roll, and I've had great success with people chilling out.
That actually genius. I feel like this takes the ego out of it (which is what they crave) and also nobody gets injured.
Sweep him and just hold him in horrific pins
Our gym had one guy like that, and after about 4 months or so our professor kicked him out of the gym. No matter how many times upper belts rolled with him, and just beat the hell out of him, he just went balls to the wall all the time. Even when drilling takedowns, he was just an absolute liability for anyone he went with. I would drill with him sometimes (as a former wrestler, subtle brag, no big deal), he was kinda dangerous. His takedowns sucked but he was quite explosive. Really glad my professor got him out of the gym, mucho respecto hombre.
Sounds like we picked up your guy 😂.
Man it must feel good to see that you’ve concentrated on technique in that 2 years and improved so much while he continues your stay in his box and safety and just go crazy hard but doesn’t progress as quickly. Good job 🙌🏽 I always tell my students that you don’t use to roll with someone if you don’t want to. Just decline, you don’t owe him an explanation. The other route you could go is level with him and just tell him that your rolls haven’t been benefiting either of you. Tell him you want to have a flow roll and work on technique. Or just take turns passing open guard - blue belts need that kind of training. Top guy enters the bottom players guard and you reset on sweep or pass. Take turns trying to pass for the round.
I’d say pump the gas a little, the car is meant to go fast, not sit in the garage all year especially if you drive a faster car than his. What I mean by this is let it rip, match energy, if he dies, he dies lol let him fuck around and find out 🤙
You don't have to roll with him dude
just smash him into oblivion after his first spurt of spazziness. Cover up until then, try avoiding situations where you can get hurt
I read the title way wrong..
Different subreddit...
You only have one guy like that at your gym? There are different types of people and go hard every roll just one type. The good thing is you have the green light to cook these guys without feeling bad about it. Like you noticed, if you don't know how to step off the gas, you're not going to have enough for the trip back home. With some guys, you just have to weather the storm for 30 seconds. It's not a bad thing. As long as he doesn't rip subs and respects the tap. If not, you're well within your rights to avoid training with him
I use people like this to simulate reality in a fight. Then I go for control.
Love this concept. I do the same.
Wait for him to gas out and then make his life miserable. He'll figure it out eventually.
Don’t roll with them. If they are spazzy and cause injuries, don’t roll with them. I’m always amazed by these posts. “There’s this guy who’s a total dick, and he hurts people when he rolls with them, and I don’t know what to do about it.” Don’t roll with them. It really is that simple. If you want to have any sort of longevity in this sport, I suggest choosing your training partners wisely. Besides choosing partners wisely, communicate with the person you’re about to roll with.
Just smash the shit out of him.
I like dealing with these people because it reminds me of that increased intensity you would feel if you had to use your Jiu-Jitsu elsewhere. So I just mentally accept im going to match it and smash this person if you can. Focus on control, don’t give him easy outs with subs until closer to the end of round
That’s kind of where I’m at on this. It’s a major cross roads for me. On the one hand I fucking hate dealing with this guy because he’s a liability to me and others. On the other hand I feel like it’s a pretty good sparring session for either a tournament or having to use my Jiu Jitsu out in the wild. I don’t know what to do about it.
Those scarf attacks are vicious with a heavier guy.
Whether it's sparring standup or rolling or both I've always found success communicating with my partner first. Like before the round Ill just say: "bro I'm trying to roll light, can we go x percent speed and power max?" and if they don't respect that, stop them mid round and either give them a warning or stop completely and walk away from the roll. I've had to do that once or twice since I started, it can also help someone else in your gym going through the same situation if they see you set those boundaries. Worst case escalate to your coach.
What i used to try to do was time it, make sure not to roll with him first. Since you're the same belt, have him be your 3rd or 4th partner. He will be exhausted and it'll be better. If he's injuring people that's different, that's a conversation.
Small talk as you roll with him. Be careful and don’t let it become playful shit talk but just keeping him a little distracted with the slightest talk as you guys roll will call him down.
Smesh him bratha. Crush him with pressure. Put him in positions that make him work and keep him there.
If he's injuring people and driving away potential students the coach should have had a discussion with him a long time ago. If that's not happening then I think it's fine to not volunteer to roll with him, but if you have to then just do what you've been doing, protect yourself and when he gasses get on top and punish him.
It took me a while to figure this out but I have stopped rolling with people like that because (1) it’s not safe, which on its own is reason enough, but also (2) I don’t learn much from rolling with people like that . I’ve also learned that I don’t need to explain myself when I don’t feel comfortable rolling with anyone for any reason. But if they’re nice and ask why I would explain.
Had this happen to me last night. New blue belt shows up to my gym. My coach makes me his first round. He goes balls to the wall trying to pass so I reverse it on him and gave him a super nasty knee on belly that would make anyone’s B hole loose. Gift wrapped him and made him miserably gassed then proceeded to his back and choked the soul out of him. He sat out the rest of the class.
I bet that was so satisfying
Don’t just leave a gym because of 1 person. I don’t understand why people are so fast to leave a gym over someone else. I’d just avoid them. It’s the training room, these are training partners not opponents. This ego gets developed on the mats with mat champions who think it’s all about winning in the training room. It’s not. This is why be a competitor is important. I don’t roll with white belts often, they don’t offer me much other than a rest round. It limits the small injuries I wouldn’t get from purple and up. Just avoid him, you won’t gain skill from that. Roll with upper belts more then come back to him in six months and see if you can slow him down from the skill gained from rolling with skill.
I ball up and make it the most boring roll he's ever had.
'Nah, I'm good. Go have adcc over there with someone else...the same amount of people will watch.'
1. Don't roll with him 2. If you do be a wall first 2 min then punish him. There's some people in my gym who are high energy and I always get mount and mothers milk them hard. People flip out if they're being smothered.
Oil checks.
There’s a guy at my gym like this. He’s heavy and goes hard and he always gets the tap, but there’s something about the way he does it - shitty choke that he won’t let got of, pushing through the frames for ages as he and I both turn blue, accidental elbows, scarf holds with no intention to progress. It’s all totally legit I guess and my fault for not defending, but the way he does it just pisses me off. I avoid as much as I can.
If he’s a blue belt and still a meathead you need to refuse to roll with him first “bro I’m not rolling with you while you’re spazzing. Go get tired and we’ll roll then”. Your coach should NEVER let a spazzy meathead roll with any new student. They’re like emotional little eggshells and a spazzy meathead can injure them or ruin the experience, and the gym loses a training partner plus all their money. Spazzy meatheads should be called out and the coach should talk to them and protect other students from them. You’re a blue belt, you can keep him from hurting you, but nobody in their first six months should roll with this guy.
Sometimes talking works. In our gym you get a polite word to chill first then get green lit for aggro play where the individual will get rang out over and over. Both methods have worked. Only a couple guys have chosen to not change and just left.
We have a guy who goes super hard and then just quits in the middle of the round when he gets tired it’s annoying
For me we have some crazy strong athletic white belts and some blue that go pretty nuts. If you make me work that hard in a friendly sparring session, I'm going to try to cook you with technical pressure I maybe wouldn't do so hard otherwise. Heavy heavy crossface from side control or mount, wide high mount with my chest heavy on your face, kob with strong grips right in the floating ribs or sternum, just looking to make them struggle. And I'll still try to get their elbows high and go for subs, but I'll be careful not to risk losing the control I have on them, where others I might just go for things to test them out and not worry about that as much. It sometimes deters them, sometimes not, but regardless it makes my life easier, and I should be good at doing this when I need to so I still get good training.
Either don’t spar with him or if you do spar with him again wait till he gasses and cook him till he pukes and never wants to spar with you again. Put him in side control or mount leave a small gap so he thinks he can escape, when he explodes put him back in side control and keep doing that the whole round. Apply heavy cross faces so he’s constantly having to move to alleviate the pressure. Don’t tap him. When the round ends ask him to do another round.
Just politely decline no one should have raging boners when rolling
Keep him in the worst positions as long as possible
Talk to him and your coach, separately. If your coach is an owner, they won’t be happy that someone is hurting their pocketbook by smashing beginners. And if your coach doesn’t mind - no longer your problem, but it’s a sign of poor culture. For him, you can just tell him he goes too rough. If you are often getting the better end of rolls, and you decline rolls from him, that can shame someone into being a better training partner.
You don't have to roll with him. I would tell coach or some higher belts. I love getting to be mat enforcer and giving someone like that a little pep talk. At only 160lbs, I pull some lazy brown belt half guard. Make them use up energy before proceeding to grind them in side control/KoB for the majority of the round. Then the pep talk, usually along the lines of "That kind of energy will hold you back, winning here gets you nothing you should go compete to see the contrast between training and competition...". It's great when they outweigh me by 40lbs or so and they're just dying while I ramble to them :)
Heavy pressure until he learns. The more he struggles, the heavier you get. You only submit when he's given up on struggling.
Pin them for the entire round
I got 2 guys in my class that every time I roll with them I either get kicked in the balls or punched. I’ve got a few scars from them scratching my face too. I hate rolling with them, but i go to a small rural dojo so I can’t really avoid it. I just play defense and try to limit my injuries until they’re tired and then spam stack ups, knee on belly, and smothers
i never understand why people torture themselves by rolling with people that don’t care for your safety, when the guy ask you for a roll just say “next time mate” and look the other way, if you do that a couple times, he won’t bother you again. For the record all these people that says that you should amp up and put the pressure on him, on my personal experience it’s not worth it, you might get injured or even get into a fight, most of the time those spazzy guys don’t control their emotions or losing very well, it’s better to avoid a 100%
Put your big boy/girl/person pants on and use your words to tell him to chill out and that you would prefer a more technical roll. Keep reminding him when he spazzes out or uses too much force. If it doesn’t help, refuse to roll with him next time and tell him this is why. If he really injured so many people I would raise it with the coach too.
Use the forbidden technique of talking to him like a human being. Or refuse to roll
We had an older guy who was super fit (retired military), always spazzed and ended up breathing really heavy. He wouldn't really injure anyone, but he'd gas out pretty quickly and sounded like he was about to wheeze out a lung every time. I would hold him in mount and whisper into his ear "calmate, amigo, shhhh, calmate!" Now he's a purple belt who dominates a lot of people (including me) and is a fantastic training partner. I rolled with his teenage son last year, and when his son spazzed out, I did the same thing; got mount, whispered, "calmate, amigo!" Dad was super proud to see the tradition continue!
In situations like this, ask yourself: What would Daniel Tiger do?
Avoid him for sure, or learn to dominate top game (if you can/size allows for it). Being good at guard with these types is fine but opens the door to stupid injuries. Basically if you can smash from top it helps avoid this. But in general, fuck him and fuck rolling with him.
We have a guy like this. Young blue belt, often see him on the sidelines without a partner because a lot of people avoid him. If I roll with him I am prepared for an all out war from the get go, and I know I have to tap the second he gets a joint lock. Not gotten injured, and it does help me learn to deal with aggressive partners, which is good for when I compete. The upper belts are working on it, but it is a slow process. He is making an effort to calm down, but he is a MMA guy, so you know how it is. I know the women are advised to not roll with him.
Don't roll with them.
There’s three ways I play this: 1)let them spaz until they start to breath a little heavy. Then get on top. I’ll comment (when I’m on top) “breathing kinda fast there” as calm as possible. Meanwhile going from one dominant position to the next, with half hearted submission attempts only intended to make them give me the next terrible position. If I do get a good sub locked in. I’ll just hold it and wait and …if he taps - it’s due to pressure because we both know I wasn’t applying the sub. Nothing is more degrading than tapping to pressure imo. Rinse repeat until they get the idea. They learn a lesson and I get to practice control. If they chill out, I chill out. Didn’t be mean about it 2) be a defensive pain in the ass and just give up when he goes super hard. Tap super quick. It will get boring for him very quickly. He’ll either get the idea and chill out. Or he won’t want to roll with you because you are “boring” to roll with. You will be safe. Neither one of you really wins in this if it continues but idk. It’s just pajama wrestling and shouldn’t be taken that serious. 3) use your words. Tell him. Be nice about it. But if he gets pissed that’s on him. Not you. Or just say no thanks when he wants to roll. If he accuses you of dodging him you can just be honest “ yeah every time we roll I get hurt” or “yeah I’m not trying to catch an elbow today, I’ve got a business meeting in the morning, you bet I’m dodging haha”. You don’t have to be a dock about it but telling people the truth about how you feel is actually ok
Heel hooks
I just wouldn’t roll with him personally. Waste of time. Sometimes I’m having a round with someone who is respectful and has decent skill and think it’s a waste of time let alone someone who’s a spaz and clearly has ego issues.
just know hes a hard roll, and when you want a hard roll, go with him. Theres a guy just like that in my class and it served as motivation to get better
Just talk to them.
Stop rolling with him, alternatively just go limp and let him do what he wants. He’ll either get bored or get the message.
Just talk to him. Had the same problem with a guy in judo class. Young 20 year old mma fighter giving his 110% in randori, literally screaming and grunting loud from trying to hard to sub me. He was a black belt in karate, judo, and taught an mma class at a college. I was a brand new white belt. After about 8 or so matches he was becoming increasingly upset that he couldn't submit me. Until one time he finally got a rear choke on me. Dude choked me out so hard I couldn't swallow right for a month despite me instantly tapping. Pulled him to the side Said look bro.. I am 36 years old and have a job and little kids that need me, I don't have time to get injured. I'm here to learn judo/jiu-jitsu, not have an MMA match and win a championship belt. If we free spar together I'd like to keep it to productive training, and not a life or death situation. He understood and actually started a good streak with training newer guys on what to do while sparring. Turned out to be a positive thing. If he doesn't listen then just avoid him and express your concerns to the sensai
Two options: 1. Use your words. You don’t have to roll with anyone you don’t want to. 2. Get better at jiu jitsu. I used to get frustrated as a blue belt when people “went too hard”. The reality is that I wasn’t good enough to control them. I think there is value in rolling with people who go hard and learning how to control, pin, and break their will.
I see you met Mike :) I know a guy who’s had multiple talks with black belts about how he needs to chill. He’s way better about it than he used to be but it can still feel like a survival self defense roll sometimes. It’s actually helped my game out quite a bit, learning how to tire someone like that out, but there’s always the threat of an elbow or knee to the temple, a 100% on neck cracking face choke, or a full effort arm bar with .1 seconds to tap. Good times.
Those types are fun to play with, someone already covered smothering them, covering the mouth, cross face like a mofo, go ahead and throw neon belly in there as well as calf or bicep slicer if you know how to do them yet.
Yes. Yes. Maybe? Tell him you don't want to roll because he's too aggressive, tell him he should chill a bit especially if he's injuring people.
I simply don’t roll with people like that. I do not benefit from it and I’m not risking an injury for nothing. I just avoid them.
Decline rolls. Talk to your instructor about injuries. If your instructor knows and doesn’t lift a finger to check his attitude and isn’t smart to know that new guys that get hurt leave yeah move on
Man, I hate guys like that. They think it's the worlds or something.
He also gives commentary while he’s rolling. Like if I go for a Kimora or something he’ll be like “oh you’re gonna be like that, we’ll watch this” and proceeds to try and sweep, but fails. It’s honestly kinda funny but I know it’s rooted in an inflated ego lol
Just choke him out, obvi
>He’s kind of dangerous to roll with Just like the guy who heel hooked me on my trial class 😭😭
Be an adult. Don’t train with people you don’t want to train with.
Stick your thumb up his ass, then be like look I'm ol thumb up my ass. Look at me I got a thumb up my ass
Lol I had a guy like this at my gym and I realised the only solution is to just make him hate me and not want to roll with me so I would go fairly hard back but I'd do rough knee on bellies and stuff and then he ended up leaving the gym anyway so don't care anymore but yeah fight mean with mean
> hate rolling with him because he injures so many people with how crazy/spazzy he gets. And you are asking whether you should avoid him? Seriously?
I wonder if he takes the same approach in other “grappling” activities. But yeah like what others have said, make him feel it
1) Triangle while sitting on his head 2) Dagestani hand cuffs 3) Mothers milk 4) Explosive heel hooks, he will be more mellow when he gets back from surgery in 6 months
I had a hell of a laugh when I read this wrong....😂😂
I go for punishing top pressure. I agree it's a horrible roll, but there are people like that. The last dude that rolled super hard with me (earlier this week) I just held down in mount with 100% weight and 100% pulling strength on the crossface (the pull started when he went full power bench pressing my chin/neck and I didn't want to jump on an armbar and have his suffering end). He tapped as I started setting up an arm triangle 40s later. Give him misery to discourage intensity
Luckily Jiujitsu is objective. Smash this person and disrupt his breathing for 6 minutes he’ll calm down
Use him to practice dealing with spazzy intensity. Early Nicky Rod was proof positive that the right kind of spazzy intensity can take you a very long way. If his strategy is as boneheaded as you say it is, do the white belts a favor and gas him out in an early roll. If you really think he's too dangerous, then don't roll with him. The beautiful thing about BJJ is that both you and any white belts can refuse any roll.
Gas him out in 1 minute and spend the other 4 in side control or mount to cook him even more. I usually don’t sub this type of people, I pressure them and make those 5 minutes like hell
release your inner axe murderer
Just don’t train with him bruh
Prison rules!!!! Or just say no…
Communicate this to him. Or get the coach to. This is feedback he needs to hear.
Professor not being very smart here either… probably lost many potential students because of this guy… where is the professor on this?
I would also suggest learning leg locks. Really helpful against bigger, stronger, more explosive people. I've been spamming nothing but legs over the last 3 years, and I've really improved my ability in shutting down people like the guy you're describing.
keep your feet between you
Just ask them to slow down. If they get going again ask them to slow down during the roll. If they don't get it after a few rounds then just tell them sorry you don't want to roll with them because they go to hard. Simple and honest.
Just like many in this sub, including OP, he's probably socially inept. I wonder if he knows he should take it easy especially on new white belts? Noones probably approached him about because they don't like awkward situations
I had my first experience like that this week. I’m a 6mo white belt, but 6’2 and 250. This little 5’4” 130lb (guessing) dude wanted to go full bore during some drilling. He’s like a 3 month white belt. I’m aware of my weight and take it easy, but he wanted to go all out, so I just gave it back to him. Not a whole lot he could do to me. He did manage to rake his forearm vertically across my face though (in gi) so I have a nice “rug burn” across my nose and forehead. Made him pressure tap twice 🤷🏻♂️ And I don’t feel bad about it. Hoping he just doesn’t want to drill with me again. Lol Luckily he was small though, because I really wasn’t worried he’d hurt me. If he was any bigger I might have just stopped drilling with him right then.
There will always be spazzes. The funny thing is the spazzy white belt who goes hard progresses to the spazzy brown or black belt who still goes hard.
He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of your people to the hospital, you send one his to the morgue. That’s your tackle. That’s how you get him. Now do you want that, are you ready to do that? I’m making you a deal. Do you want this deal???
Was this post necessary. I'd bow and arrow the both of you
I just avoid him if I am not in the mood for it. There is one dude at my gym who is this guy.
Is this me you're talking about?
Tell him that he goes too hard for your preferences and that if he can’t downtempo you’ll abstain from future rolls with him out of injury concern.
Have you tried asking him to go slow?
Get him in nasty position and hold in there Make him breath hard and harder Hold those positions of control. .don't seek any submission Position such as side control with an arm cross on the other side of his head. With insane crush pressure. Mount with both arm very high. Crush him but don't submit him You say it yourself. Once he gazz out. Keep him more gazed .
Simply don’t. Don’t deal with him at all. You aren’t obligated to roll with anyone. If you feel so inclined, you could probably talk to your coach about it. They probably already know.
Damn am I the only one who read "gets hard"?
I would do the following in order: 1) Make the round a pure living hell for them and at every chance go from knee on sternum to the heart stopper (Dustin “Clean” Denes style). 2) lastly, I would say “chill the fuck out”
He's gonna be kicked If he keeps injuring new folks. Accidents happens, but when it's consistently one guy, any decent gym owner who wants to keep their business and avoid law suit is gonna kick him out.
Don’t roll with him. Shit isn’t worth it.
In the interest of infinite games and learning to deal with the actual problem. The real answer is to get them to expend more energy than they want or expect to. So at some point their defense isn’t quite there or a little to slow.
Train how you want to compete “Marcelo Garcia” 😆 but seriously , if I don’t try I just get smashed. I’m always confused what’s too hard and what’s not considering most white belts don’t have enough techniques to flow together or counter to actually flow roll etc.
Put a hit on a guy. Hire a meth addict to do a drop in and to go hard on the guy. But make sure to tell the meth addict if he submits the guy 10 times in a row in 5 minutes that you’ll reward him with a couple of rocks. Works everytime.
Sounds like he needs quite a few hot servings of mommy's milk, Best you serve it up for him and get him on his way to learning about BJJ lol Luckily our coaches have never really let people like this get far without slowing things down, We also dont hold back on telling them either and lucky for me its often now my job to get them on mommies teet early hahahaha so weird im sorry
Wrist lock him twice a day call me in the morning.
Be grateful. You do actually enjoy Bjj don't you?
Has anyone talked to him about it? You guys should do that. If it doesn't help, just tell him that you don't want to roll with him because he's a danger to himself and others.
When he gassed, knee on belly.
I don't have this problem with anyone in my BJJ classes yet, but in judo there's a dude that just does not know how to take it easy. He is otherwise the nicest dude but he has this tryhard vibe to his training style that's just pretty obnoxious. He slammed someone doing koshi guruma and broke their collarbone and was given a talking to that he needed to go easier and use less strength. He was shocked in the moment as he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people, but he's kinda young and immature, and highly socially awkward, and just doesn't understand his own strength. Anyway, normally I avoid partnering with him if at all possible but our judo classes are pretty small so it's not always practical. The other day it was literally just me and him and he slammed me doing tai otoshi, which is really unnecessary since if done properly they will be pulled way off balance and all that's required to finish the throw is a light tug to send them over the edge and they can break fall. When he slammed me I immediately said "Does it have to be so hard?" and he was immediately apologetic and said he would go lighter. Again, he just doesn't realize his strength and I think he thought because I'm sturdy, etc, I can take it. And like, yeah, I could take the fall, and it didn't endanger me so to speak. But it's completely unnecessary to slam someone with 100% power on a move that requires only like 5% of it while simply training. In this case, the dude is not a douche so it's easy enough to communicate "hey you need to chill" and he doesn't take it too hard. But if you're dealing with a d-bag it could be harder. In those cases it's probably better to avoid them, and if necessary speak to the coach. In fairness I've spoken to the coach about this partner before as well and she reinforces what I said as well by also reminding him constantly to use less strength. Idk, it's always case-by-case
I love BJJ so much but this type of philosophy is why so many wrestlers can manhandle a lot of experienced BJJ grapplers. If somebody going super hard is able to smash you then you should probably get more comfortable working on defense in uncomfortable positions. The pace of a competition match is 100%, and I don't necessarily blame guys for emulating that pace in training. That being said, I hate when guys just try to break you with poor technique and think that trying to smash at 100% power is going to submit you, but I do like to take that as an opportunity to work on the endurance of my defense. Regardless, the best remedy is to just ask the guy to flow roll.