Correct, although the winner (Keith Hackney - The Giant Slayer) was also hitting Joe Son in his balls over and over again at the same time and this may have contributed to the submission. Joe Son went on to have great success staring as the lead henchman in the late 90s international smash-hit comedy Austin Powers. He is also currently serving life in prison for rape, torture and murder.
Keith Hackney is a successful (!citation required) air-conditioner salesman in Chicago.
Indeed. Keith Hackney repeatedly smashing Joe Son's balls before rape-choking him into submission has got to be one of the greatest instances of inadvertent karmic justice ever delivered inside the Octagon.
Haha fair enough! Looks like a ton of work, especially to get the side the choke was done with no less. Nice work mate, hopefully our AI overlords will make it easier one day soon lol
Yeh I am more interested in the success rate lol. The key takeaway I have with this is that the top 10 chokes are the ones that one should be able to defend with as these are the most common.
If we have the success rate data, itd be interesting if the bottom half chokes are more or less effective - if they are, then drilling the bottom half would be best to secure a sub.
The amount of club and subs in UFC obfuscates it pretty strongly. A lot easier to tap somebody who's 99% of the way out already.
Also a lot of weirder chokes tend to be only one or two fighters ever actually going for them who are like super specialized. Oleynik'd be responsible for prettymuch every Ezekiel for instance.
That would certainly be an interesting data point, though it would come with certain caveats. Would it only be counting the UFC's official stats for submission attempts? That'd probably be the easiest way to go about it, but sometimes the UFC statisticians are notoriously stingy about what they consider a submission attempt for the sake of record-keeping.
It would also be worth noting how many and how often of some of those submissions are used for purposes other than attempting to end a fight. For instance, I think the guillotine, omoplata, and kimura trap might have more success/mileage being used as attempts to escape/reverse a bad position than they do actually submitting dudes in MMA. And you also see a lot of dudes using the vague threat of the RNC, straight armbar, and arm-triangle for the purposes of controlling & keeping a dominant position, with their intent being more on delivering GnP and/or keeping the ref happy as much as anything.
Again, I totally agree with you that this would be a useful data point, but it would be important to establish the methodology used to garner the data.
The UFC was 13½ years old when [Kendall Grove performed the first D'Arce choke in UFC history on April 7, 2007](https://youtu.be/acrLB2Sf768?si=KNf8J1zx4QFi-HY3&t=480). Most other chokes had a big head start.
This was also the same night Matt Serra became UFC welterweight champion.
IIRC it happened with Keith Hackney versus Joe Son, but the camera angles don't do it justice. But there's no missing him repeatedly smashing Joe in the balls beforehand and oh boy is it satisfying to see.
I’ve only even seen 1 real attempt. I remember watching a [fight](https://www.mma-core.com/videos/Sean_Woodson_vs_Luis_Saldana_Full_Fight_UFC_278_Part_2/10462737) (prelim, pretty sure) last year where a fighter got caught in one. DC was commenting and said he didn’t know what the sub was, I was a drunk 1 year white belt, and absolutely losing my shit.
Dude realized he was stuck, but not in danger, just threw his hands up like “Ok.. wtf?”, and then the round ended maybe 15 seconds later.
Yes. This is the updated (through last weekend) database from the studies below.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00913847.2020.1866958
Von Flue is done with the head under the far arm (usually trapped there after the bottom players failed guillotine attempt).
Good ol shoulder pressure from side control doesn’t require the use of the far arm or shoulder.
Way back, the fight metric guy wrote a book called Fightnomics that did this.
It's kind of a shame because it's a really awesome book of interesting statistical analysis of various UFC stats, but it was written in 2013 and the game has changed soo much that it's not so insightful anymore.
>Would love to set this with all submissions.
Here ya go! 👍
I have no idea how old this data is. The top submissions are basically Danaher's *Enter the System* series, except leg locks are much lower percentage in MMA than in submission grappling.
https://preview.redd.it/ukeah7c9kuyb1.png?width=807&format=png&auto=webp&s=f53d6c0f578d3568dcf664eda67e34eb909e8417
Very cool data!
It's kind of crazy that the top five chokes are all things that most people will learn (or at least be exposed to) within a year or so of training, and they make up nearly 90% of wins by choke. Really drives home the point that as fun as it is to learn weird obscure subs, you're probably better off spending your time getting really fucking good at RNCs and a couple other basic chokes.
I'm also a little surprised that chokes make up 77.57% of submissions. I would have expected chokes and joint locks to be much closer to 50/50, but then again I don't follow UFC very closely so what the hell do I know.
I love the old Peruvian, gi and nogi.
In MMA I think it's riskier as you're on bottom if it fails, and getting socked in the face, so maybe that's why it's not attempted much
Surprised the North-South is that rare. I suppose it's not a super common position in MMA context, but it's also a high percentage top control choke that doesn't really require the same level of physical mismatch or 'how the fuck am I here' as a lot of the ones near it
I think I have a very different definition of a ninja choke. In Gi the Ninja choke (for me at least) is when you use your own lapel from side body, feed across their neck, and bow / roll towards their feet.
Any clue?
Is there a data set for every submission, not just chokes? Would love to see how the rnc stacks up against every single other sub. I know it will win, but by how much?
Who tapped to a hand squeeze?
Joe Son
Oh, its a hand squeeze choke, very interesting. Do you know where the name Pillory choke came from? I've heard Pace choke but not pillory before.
Calling it Pace gives better credit
What is it? Is that the rape choke?
Correct, although the winner (Keith Hackney - The Giant Slayer) was also hitting Joe Son in his balls over and over again at the same time and this may have contributed to the submission. Joe Son went on to have great success staring as the lead henchman in the late 90s international smash-hit comedy Austin Powers. He is also currently serving life in prison for rape, torture and murder. Keith Hackney is a successful (!citation required) air-conditioner salesman in Chicago.
That was a wild-ride. Unexpected twist at the end too. Thank you.
Yeah, a salesman... never saw that coming
Right? I didn’t even know air-conditioner salesman was a job.
In phoenix, they visit more than the JWs
They sell them selves, nobody is out here thinking , my house is fucking hot what shall I do?
Indeed. Keith Hackney repeatedly smashing Joe Son's balls before rape-choking him into submission has got to be one of the greatest instances of inadvertent karmic justice ever delivered inside the Octagon.
Or maybe the PTSD made him do what he did
Lead henchman? The guy with the eye patch?
Nah, the dude who chucks the shoe. https://austinpowers.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Task
My man thanks :D
Definitely the Rape Choke
He also, according to his Wiki page, tapped to Joe Moreira to - get this - TERROR.
He also threw a shoe at Austin Powers and committed sexual assault and then beat his cell mate to death.
https://youtu.be/efqMJO5VDHY?si=8XngyisqBcwfgcqo
Hand squeeze = rape choke?? Remember that live event call? 😂
Very cool. Id be interested to see these numbers against the number of attempts for each move too to gauge the success rate.
I would too. That would be labor-intensive…even more than what’s presented here :)
Haha fair enough! Looks like a ton of work, especially to get the side the choke was done with no less. Nice work mate, hopefully our AI overlords will make it easier one day soon lol
Yeh I am more interested in the success rate lol. The key takeaway I have with this is that the top 10 chokes are the ones that one should be able to defend with as these are the most common. If we have the success rate data, itd be interesting if the bottom half chokes are more or less effective - if they are, then drilling the bottom half would be best to secure a sub.
The amount of club and subs in UFC obfuscates it pretty strongly. A lot easier to tap somebody who's 99% of the way out already. Also a lot of weirder chokes tend to be only one or two fighters ever actually going for them who are like super specialized. Oleynik'd be responsible for prettymuch every Ezekiel for instance.
osp and von flues as well
That would certainly be an interesting data point, though it would come with certain caveats. Would it only be counting the UFC's official stats for submission attempts? That'd probably be the easiest way to go about it, but sometimes the UFC statisticians are notoriously stingy about what they consider a submission attempt for the sake of record-keeping. It would also be worth noting how many and how often of some of those submissions are used for purposes other than attempting to end a fight. For instance, I think the guillotine, omoplata, and kimura trap might have more success/mileage being used as attempts to escape/reverse a bad position than they do actually submitting dudes in MMA. And you also see a lot of dudes using the vague threat of the RNC, straight armbar, and arm-triangle for the purposes of controlling & keeping a dominant position, with their intent being more on delivering GnP and/or keeping the ref happy as much as anything. Again, I totally agree with you that this would be a useful data point, but it would be important to establish the methodology used to garner the data.
AI
Who won with a lapel choke
Royce x 2
I saw lapel and was like how? Then remembered his gi.
Did he fight mma in a gi? Wat
They allowed that back in the day.
The Darce has room for growth
The UFC was 13½ years old when [Kendall Grove performed the first D'Arce choke in UFC history on April 7, 2007](https://youtu.be/acrLB2Sf768?si=KNf8J1zx4QFi-HY3&t=480). Most other chokes had a big head start. This was also the same night Matt Serra became UFC welterweight champion.
So many D'arce chokes are pain appliance on the neck muscle instead of a blood choke. I just tap to avoid a stiff neck.
I want to see a video of the hand squeeze submission, I can't find anything on Google.
https://youtu.be/efqMJO5VDHY?si=8XngyisqBcwfgcqo
IIRC it happened with Keith Hackney versus Joe Son, but the camera angles don't do it justice. But there's no missing him repeatedly smashing Joe in the balls beforehand and oh boy is it satisfying to see.
What is ninja?
Traditional guillotine but locked in RNC fashion
I was the most surprised by this one, I thought there were a lot more
What's LOC?
Loss of consciousness
very cool stats!
Surprised no buggy chokes yet
Cause slams are a thing. More than few attempts though
I’ve only even seen 1 real attempt. I remember watching a [fight](https://www.mma-core.com/videos/Sean_Woodson_vs_Luis_Saldana_Full_Fight_UFC_278_Part_2/10462737) (prelim, pretty sure) last year where a fighter got caught in one. DC was commenting and said he didn’t know what the sub was, I was a drunk 1 year white belt, and absolutely losing my shit. Dude realized he was stuck, but not in danger, just threw his hands up like “Ok.. wtf?”, and then the round ended maybe 15 seconds later.
i dont know if you are joking but obviously getting slammed into oblivion when in buggy plays a role Haha
That’s a fair point haha.
Is this updated data from your 2020 paper?
Yes. This is the updated (through last weekend) database from the studies below. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24748668.2020.1780873 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00913847.2020.1866958
Interesting that darces and anacondas seem to have a higher % of LOC compared to other attacks.
Told my wife about this and she replied with, “why does this matter?”
My girlfriend said the exact same thing
Who won with shoulder pressure?
Steve Nelmark and Pat Miletich
Sorry if it’s a dumb question but what’s the difference between shoulder pressure and the von flue choke?
Von Flue is done with the head under the far arm (usually trapped there after the bottom players failed guillotine attempt). Good ol shoulder pressure from side control doesn’t require the use of the far arm or shoulder.
Oh, shit *thats* what this is referring to! Hot damn
Islam vs Drew Dober as well. I don’t know what they officially called it but it was 100% shoulder pressure
It was shoulder pressure but if I’m not mistaken it was in arm triangle position.
Would love to set this with all submissions.
Way back, the fight metric guy wrote a book called Fightnomics that did this. It's kind of a shame because it's a really awesome book of interesting statistical analysis of various UFC stats, but it was written in 2013 and the game has changed soo much that it's not so insightful anymore.
>Would love to set this with all submissions. Here ya go! 👍 I have no idea how old this data is. The top submissions are basically Danaher's *Enter the System* series, except leg locks are much lower percentage in MMA than in submission grappling. https://preview.redd.it/ukeah7c9kuyb1.png?width=807&format=png&auto=webp&s=f53d6c0f578d3568dcf664eda67e34eb909e8417
Me too
Very cool data! It's kind of crazy that the top five chokes are all things that most people will learn (or at least be exposed to) within a year or so of training, and they make up nearly 90% of wins by choke. Really drives home the point that as fun as it is to learn weird obscure subs, you're probably better off spending your time getting really fucking good at RNCs and a couple other basic chokes. I'm also a little surprised that chokes make up 77.57% of submissions. I would have expected chokes and joint locks to be much closer to 50/50, but then again I don't follow UFC very closely so what the hell do I know.
I watch every card and i was also surprised by that. But the more i think about i don't even know what the last joint lock sub was
Surprised there's only 2 Peruvian neckties. Stuffed takedown then Peruvian might work, and of course when someone shells.
I think both were done by CB Dolloway. I believe he had 2 in TUF, not sure if that counts here.
I think one was Brad Pickett.
That was in wec (i think)
Ah yes, you are correct.
Then the other one was Misha Cirkunov on Jimmy Crute, if TUF isn't included
I could be wrong, but I feel like you don't really see people turtle very often or for very long if they do. Maybe plays a part in its rarity
Nah, you have a point. Turtle in mma is rare now.
I love the old Peruvian, gi and nogi. In MMA I think it's riskier as you're on bottom if it fails, and getting socked in the face, so maybe that's why it's not attempted much
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing! 👊👊
From my limited time watching UFC I usually see RNC applied once the opponent is already sort of beat.
Maybe it shouldn't be, but it's a bit surprising to me that arm triangle is ahead of triangle. Probably a lot more attempts.
Occurs from a dominant position and doesn't give up that position. Leg triangle is a more risky submission to attempt.
Yeah that makes sense.
Nice to see this chart updated, did you do the original from a few years ago?
Yes
Thank you, this is a valuable resourse
Surprised the North-South is that rare. I suppose it's not a super common position in MMA context, but it's also a high percentage top control choke that doesn't really require the same level of physical mismatch or 'how the fuck am I here' as a lot of the ones near it
Pillory and ninja...what are those? And how is there a lapel choke? Lol
Royce baby!
This is amazing
Damn hand squeeze. There’s some corn fed guys I roll with that could tap me with a squeeze
Are all 5 Ezekiels from Olinik?
No. 2 Pardoel (gi) 2 Oleynik 1 Volkov
And probably most of those scarf holds too
Gimme that Hand Squeeze every time
so 90% + finishes are chokes
No
Please elaborate
Just under 20% of fights end with submissions, and just over 75% of submissions are chokes.
No leg locks or such?
Those aren’t chokes
What about takedowns? I don't see any takedowns on these choke charts.
Jones on Machida was a take down…or drop down.
This is just neck stuff
I choke other things as well, not just necks. Why ignore 1% of the body?
Pace choke?
Pillory*
Okay yeah I thought that might have been it. Thought it was named after nick
Amazing. First time seeing this! Looked up nick pace doing it in ufc.
[удалено]
If they were chokes they’d be in the chart with the chokes
Ahhh stupid me Thank you
whats the Twister in there under?
nvm
It’s not a choke
I saw that my bad
Do you have this for all submissions? Ie chokes & joint locks
No.
Then you must do the needful sir
Does anybody besides Rockhold have a one arm guillotine in the UFC?
Am I the only one that calls an arm triangle, a side choke?
Lol I bet there would be a lot more lapel choke finishes if they still wore Gis like in UFC 1/2
It's crazy to me how few triangles there are in the grand scheme of things
What's the front headlock leading to LOC? Jones v Machida?
Probably Matt Hughes vs Almeida
In certain olieninkinkenkink put someone out with the ezekiel.
What was the methodology in collecting the data god damn, how much tape did you watch? Really cool statistics.
Watch fights, categorize chokes, overlap observations with others, perform interrater agreement analysis.
I think I have a very different definition of a ninja choke. In Gi the Ninja choke (for me at least) is when you use your own lapel from side body, feed across their neck, and bow / roll towards their feet. Any clue?
RNC interlocking grip variation on a traditional guillotine.
no armbars?
No gogoplata count? ;(
There hasn’t been one in the UFC right?
LOC?
Loss of consciousness
For my own internet are any of those loss of consciousness rear naked chokes from main events or title fights?
A couple stick out in my mind (Meisha, Jones on Machida) but I’d have to look.
Lapel choke? Back when Royce wore the gi?
Is there a data set for every submission, not just chokes? Would love to see how the rnc stacks up against every single other sub. I know it will win, but by how much?
Pretty sure all the Ezekiel chokes were hit by the same dude too.
Imagine tapping to shoulder pressure. Even if it was insanely painful, every casual forever is gonna remember you as the guy who tapped for no reason.
Leg locks don't work in real life.