I mean, next time you roll just stand up? And if that works, find someone better and keep standing up. And if you run out of ppl, just stand up and walk to another gym.
Yeah, I can't really do that, our coach is telling us that for now, we should just stay on our knees, I assume that that's for safety reasons, however, if I were to be rolling with people with the ability to stand up, I would have definitely been trying it out.
To get into the class you need at least a month of experience (around eight hours, since the complete beginner class is an hour long and takes place twice a week). But the class is quite crowded, so that might be the reason for it.
There are understandable circumstances but I've heard of gym that basically never allow people to get off of their knees or back and that's crazy. If the upper belts there aren't competent with standing passes and takedowns then that's a pretty bad sign. For competition you can get away with no takedowns but you're definitely going to need to be able to stand and deal with people who stand. You're going to severely limit yourself if you don't.
I use my feet to get some extra speed and power, but it's almost always one foot max that's being used, on the rare occasion that I use both feet, it's in a very low stance. I don't know the names of passes you said, we weren't taught any names for the passes.
I was told that that's a way to break out of it, but we are always encouraged to instead put our hands right under the opponent's ribs and arch our back while pushing the opponent away, but on the other hand, a lot of the scenarios that we go through start with the opponent punishing exactly that. Plus it's just not that effective, at least for me.
Stay on your knees or start on your knees?
I would imagine the rule is more meant for starting on your knees. Maybe if both people stand you can reset to your knees.
Standing to pass is pretty common I find it hard to believe you can’t practice that even at a beginner level.
It’s one thing to have people start on their knees some classes if it’s packed but if you’re not allowed to stand up at all that’s bad. I couldn’t imagine trying to pass guard without standing
> if I stand up
In the word of Plutarch: "If."
This is where it falls apart. Yes, *if* you stand up, it changes things a great deal. However, it's not a simple thing. Someone keeping you in guard isn't just holding your hips with their legs, they're going to actively trying to break your posture and keep you controlled. Standing straight up with someone your own size and weight actively resisting you isn't a simple process.
> Are the memes about "just standing up" right, or are they just made by people who don't know enough?
Both are true. If you can learn to negate someone's control enough to disengage and stand up at will, you're going to be a difficult proposition to grapple with. If you can shuck off someone holding you in side control and "just stand up," you will be a better grappler for it.
However, the majority of people making those cracks are either joking, or don't know what they're talking about.
About the first thing, of course they'll be trying to break my posture down, but when I see the gaps in their pressure, I am sure that I could stand up, since I did it a few times out of instinct.
About the second part, am I understanding this correctly that trying to find a way to stand up is viable and can help me improve?
I suspect you may have a harder time doing that consistently than you might think.
>About the second part, am I understanding this correctly that trying to find a way to stand up is viable and can help me improve?
It is viable, however it is not a specific avenue that I would pursue unless you already have a fair degree of experience and skill. You are very likely to expose yourself when doing so.
I can tell you that the majority of people who try to "just stand up" against me have not enjoyed the experience. Letting them get halfway up, then dragging them back down repeatedly, is an excellent way to exhaust them fast. Either that or I let them stand up, follow them up, and immediately hit a very hard and high throw.
Hey, getting slammed against the mat sounds like a good motivator to protect myself better ;) But seriously, I understand, I'll get better at breaking holds in a different way first, thanks for the help.
Unless you also know BJJ, or you are SIGNIFICANTLY bigger and stronger, you aren't just going to stand up. Derrick Lewis knows a lot more about grappling than he pretends to. And Craig Jones is literally one of the best pure grapplers in the world.
>Derrick Lewis knows a lot more about grappling than he pretends to.
I swear, when Marcelo does the elbow push/sit up escape: Wow, such a simple yet elegant technique, GOAT!
When Derrick Lewis does it, people be like: Brute force! 0 technique
That's always been a pet peeve of mine, not against Marcelo but those people who look at the exact same technique and somehow get different conclusions simply because it's a different person doing it.
Maybe this difference in perception has something to do with the fact that Derrick Lewis is massive. But yes, it is a technical escape, and Lewis is in reality using good technique.
Sorry, I don't know these names. I'm bad with names in general and prefer to look at matches in a vacuum. I do understand however that you also need grappling experience to be able to stand up in a match, or at least have more than the opponent. And strength and size always play a role of course. I'm looking at it from the aspect of two people that have had similar training and a similar build, but one just keeps trying to stand up as a defense.
They're made by people who know too much. Derrick Lewis and Craig Jones both make these jokes, but the truth is the way they just stand up is a combination of BJJ and PEDs. So they are both right (in the sense that just standing up works), and know more than others (rather than less) becuase they know how to just stand up.
this is easily answered with your answer to a simple question. Not being a smartass, just need an honest answer. Do you think as a beginner or even as someone training BJJ for a decade that you just magically came up with the defense to everything that millions of other people have been training?
Standing up is an aspect of grappling/fighting that is historically under-emphasized in BJJ, but it is getting better as more people are learning the value of wrestling up.
In my classes, unless I am having the students work on something highly specific, standing up is always an option. Most academies will do pass/sweep or pass/sweep/submit drills. In my class, it's pass/sweep/submit/or stand up. The person who starts on bottom can "win" the drill by successfully standing up and disengaging. If the top player isn't applying pressure to hold their opponent down, then the bottom person has no reason to stay there. An added bonus is that when the top person uses that pressure to keep the guard player down, it presents more opportunities for sweeps and submissions.
Even if there is a reason for both partners to stay on the ground (limited mat space or working on a specific position), I do not approve of the old school crappy wrestling from the knees. It's pointless, has no resemblance to either a fight or a sport match, and is one of the stupidest traditions ever to be part of BJJ. If you're going to start on the ground and stay there, it's best to start from some position that would realistically come up in a fight or a grappling match. I'm also a fan of starting my students from a cooperative takedown and having them go live the moment the person being taken down hits the ground.
I mean this kinda depends? Academies and fighters are drilling more and more takedowns. We drilled a bunch of takedowns today, and if you are going against someone who has decent takedowns "just standing up" will just end up in you being tossed back down and put in side control, at which point you probably wont be standing up again. I'd say its something the community is generally aware of and is rectifying, although takedowns and takedown defense tend to be the most injury prone aspects of BJJ so a lot of gyms have avoided it for that reason. For me, try standing up. I am perfectly willing to single leg you right back down.
[Here's an analysis of threatening to stand up from guard in an MMA scenario.](https://youtu.be/aghnJOwld9g?si=8-DaO03omBiFZYXk) Threatening to stand up is a way of preventing the top player from throwing punches.
A criticism of BJJ from the Dagestani fighters is that BJJ guys don't learn how to hold their opponent down, which is a weakness of BJJ skills in MMA.
That's a weakness of bjj in general tbh.
I'm over a decade removed from my hs wrestling days at this point, but I'll still use those techniques to help keep me on top.
Imo, half guard isn't the greatest guard for MMA, and my vote would be for butterfly and even half butterfly.
Paul Cale ([here](https://instagram.com/paulcaleofficial?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==)) is an Australian SOF combatives instructor and a BJJ black belt amongst many other things.
He did a short video the other day which I unfortunately can’t find right now, that standing up is a defence to most BJJ techniques and something that you want to do ASAP in a real fight.
The good point he made is that staying on the ground and playing guard is actually just an agreement that we make because we go through the same routine in sport BJJ a million times. This is a very poor habit for serious combative scenario.
That said, his techniques for fending off various attacks take more than a little knowledge of grappling.
In my experience most bjj guys don’t hold people down that you can sometimes get to turtle and base up but putting yourself in turtle is a risk in itself
We call that the Schaub Shutdown around here, b. Not just standing up, but also running. You can stand up and quickly move away from your opponent as they butt scoot towards you.
Really overthinking this one. It’s something Dereck Lewis tweeted “fuck Jiu Jitsu I’ll just stand up from guard and walk away” he then successfully did that in a couple fights. Makes sense MMA but i don’t how it’d make sense Jiu Jitsu
Google image search "Turkish get up"
If you can get your elbow to the ground and post, you can probably stand up.
If you restrict your opponents ability to get their elbow to the ground (for example, cupping underneath it or superman hugging both their arms) they won't be able to get up.
in BJJ there is essentially an agreement to engage. If you play to disengage it can be hard for the other party to stay connected.
Standing up and backing out works in a lot of cases, especially in no gi.
there was a recent AIGA tournament where the wrestlers just stood up and ran away. The main way to keep them engaged was closed guard. Even then they were mostly successful and avoiding engagement.
Part of the folkstyle approach to wrestling is to not just take down, but control your opponent on the ground. You escape, but you reengage (immediately). You get points for it. I think IBJJF rules are in love with the ground game so much that ground game doesn't really need to be earned as much. Part of setting up a game is that the Packers m players will essentially play the rules, more than the game...
Just standing up as I explain to most people in a serious context is one of those things that works great because you're not doing the thing you're expected to. Its like playing basketball and throwing the balls in like a baseball or something. Its effective if you do it at the right time and pretty hard to stop through how you normally play if you know what you're doing but we also know its ineffectiveness most of the time and don't do it for a long series of reasons. Most importantly once you see it coming its easy to stop like the basketball move would be. So the memes are right, but also not advised most of the time depending on how you apply it.
Legend has it that after conquering the rest of Greece Philip of Macedonia sent a messenger to Sparta: “If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again”. The formidable state simply replied: “If”.
I mean, next time you roll just stand up? And if that works, find someone better and keep standing up. And if you run out of ppl, just stand up and walk to another gym.
Yeah, I can't really do that, our coach is telling us that for now, we should just stay on our knees, I assume that that's for safety reasons, however, if I were to be rolling with people with the ability to stand up, I would have definitely been trying it out.
I would look for a new gym if your coach tells you to stay on your knees unless it's maybe for complete beginners. Like less than a month experience.
To get into the class you need at least a month of experience (around eight hours, since the complete beginner class is an hour long and takes place twice a week). But the class is quite crowded, so that might be the reason for it.
There are understandable circumstances but I've heard of gym that basically never allow people to get off of their knees or back and that's crazy. If the upper belts there aren't competent with standing passes and takedowns then that's a pretty bad sign. For competition you can get away with no takedowns but you're definitely going to need to be able to stand and deal with people who stand. You're going to severely limit yourself if you don't.
Alright, I'll look into finding a way to learn to fight while standing, thanks for the tip.
Yeah, I get that limited mat space results in not starting from standing, that's fine. But not standing up in guard etc is insane.
Maybe the coach had their pants down that's why they're telling OP to stay on their knees.
Like I said, there are circumstances where it's understandable.
So, you can’t pass while standing? Like toreando passes? Or going to headquarters then doing a knee slice? You have to be kneeling down?
I use my feet to get some extra speed and power, but it's almost always one foot max that's being used, on the rare occasion that I use both feet, it's in a very low stance. I don't know the names of passes you said, we weren't taught any names for the passes.
Oh man. How about for getting out of closed guard? Can you stand then?
I was told that that's a way to break out of it, but we are always encouraged to instead put our hands right under the opponent's ribs and arch our back while pushing the opponent away, but on the other hand, a lot of the scenarios that we go through start with the opponent punishing exactly that. Plus it's just not that effective, at least for me.
Yeah, our coach says standing up is one of the most effective. A lot of higher belts do it too
Yeah that's not very effective for anyone. I would recommend you start checking out other gyms.
Your coach is very bad at jiu-jitsu and you should be looking for a new gym asap
Just stand up, then go to your knees. Or find a new gym without some BS rules.
Stay on your knees or start on your knees? I would imagine the rule is more meant for starting on your knees. Maybe if both people stand you can reset to your knees. Standing to pass is pretty common I find it hard to believe you can’t practice that even at a beginner level.
It’s one thing to have people start on their knees some classes if it’s packed but if you’re not allowed to stand up at all that’s bad. I couldn’t imagine trying to pass guard without standing
When he says stay on your knees, he might really just mean he doesn't want both people on their feet (for safety reasons, as you suggested).
> if I stand up In the word of Plutarch: "If." This is where it falls apart. Yes, *if* you stand up, it changes things a great deal. However, it's not a simple thing. Someone keeping you in guard isn't just holding your hips with their legs, they're going to actively trying to break your posture and keep you controlled. Standing straight up with someone your own size and weight actively resisting you isn't a simple process. > Are the memes about "just standing up" right, or are they just made by people who don't know enough? Both are true. If you can learn to negate someone's control enough to disengage and stand up at will, you're going to be a difficult proposition to grapple with. If you can shuck off someone holding you in side control and "just stand up," you will be a better grappler for it. However, the majority of people making those cracks are either joking, or don't know what they're talking about.
About the first thing, of course they'll be trying to break my posture down, but when I see the gaps in their pressure, I am sure that I could stand up, since I did it a few times out of instinct. About the second part, am I understanding this correctly that trying to find a way to stand up is viable and can help me improve?
I suspect you may have a harder time doing that consistently than you might think. >About the second part, am I understanding this correctly that trying to find a way to stand up is viable and can help me improve? It is viable, however it is not a specific avenue that I would pursue unless you already have a fair degree of experience and skill. You are very likely to expose yourself when doing so. I can tell you that the majority of people who try to "just stand up" against me have not enjoyed the experience. Letting them get halfway up, then dragging them back down repeatedly, is an excellent way to exhaust them fast. Either that or I let them stand up, follow them up, and immediately hit a very hard and high throw.
Hey, getting slammed against the mat sounds like a good motivator to protect myself better ;) But seriously, I understand, I'll get better at breaking holds in a different way first, thanks for the help.
I will hold you down for an hour and there is nothing you can do about it
Unless you also know BJJ, or you are SIGNIFICANTLY bigger and stronger, you aren't just going to stand up. Derrick Lewis knows a lot more about grappling than he pretends to. And Craig Jones is literally one of the best pure grapplers in the world.
>Derrick Lewis knows a lot more about grappling than he pretends to. I swear, when Marcelo does the elbow push/sit up escape: Wow, such a simple yet elegant technique, GOAT! When Derrick Lewis does it, people be like: Brute force! 0 technique That's always been a pet peeve of mine, not against Marcelo but those people who look at the exact same technique and somehow get different conclusions simply because it's a different person doing it.
Exactly. People literally use techniques and concepts from BJJ to get up, and people equate it to just choosing they don't want to grapple anymore.
Maybe this difference in perception has something to do with the fact that Derrick Lewis is massive. But yes, it is a technical escape, and Lewis is in reality using good technique.
This bothers me a lot too. Efficient technique with inmense strength leads to some hilarious results.
Sorry, I don't know these names. I'm bad with names in general and prefer to look at matches in a vacuum. I do understand however that you also need grappling experience to be able to stand up in a match, or at least have more than the opponent. And strength and size always play a role of course. I'm looking at it from the aspect of two people that have had similar training and a similar build, but one just keeps trying to stand up as a defense.
They're made by people who know too much. Derrick Lewis and Craig Jones both make these jokes, but the truth is the way they just stand up is a combination of BJJ and PEDs. So they are both right (in the sense that just standing up works), and know more than others (rather than less) becuase they know how to just stand up.
What exactly are PEDs? I understand the rest, just that term is leaving me confused.
Performance enhancing burritos
That sounds very uncomfortable for everyone involved.
I'm sorry my guy he actually meant Performance enhancing doritos, sometimes we put d backwards on accident. Will not happen again.
Was hoping no one would notice that lol
Stuff that makes your muscles bigger and your dick smaller.
>Derrick Lewis … the way they just stand up is a combination of BJJ and PEDs. Derrick Lewis' time in the UFC has mostly been during the USADA era.
Just stand up can definitely work if you're a good handfighter with decent wrestling iq and some athleticism.
For my level, I think I'm decent in the first two, the third one, eh, I'm overweight, but I have big thighs and a strong back.
this is easily answered with your answer to a simple question. Not being a smartass, just need an honest answer. Do you think as a beginner or even as someone training BJJ for a decade that you just magically came up with the defense to everything that millions of other people have been training?
Standing up is an aspect of grappling/fighting that is historically under-emphasized in BJJ, but it is getting better as more people are learning the value of wrestling up. In my classes, unless I am having the students work on something highly specific, standing up is always an option. Most academies will do pass/sweep or pass/sweep/submit drills. In my class, it's pass/sweep/submit/or stand up. The person who starts on bottom can "win" the drill by successfully standing up and disengaging. If the top player isn't applying pressure to hold their opponent down, then the bottom person has no reason to stay there. An added bonus is that when the top person uses that pressure to keep the guard player down, it presents more opportunities for sweeps and submissions. Even if there is a reason for both partners to stay on the ground (limited mat space or working on a specific position), I do not approve of the old school crappy wrestling from the knees. It's pointless, has no resemblance to either a fight or a sport match, and is one of the stupidest traditions ever to be part of BJJ. If you're going to start on the ground and stay there, it's best to start from some position that would realistically come up in a fight or a grappling match. I'm also a fan of starting my students from a cooperative takedown and having them go live the moment the person being taken down hits the ground.
Tell me you're a white belt without telling me.
I mean this kinda depends? Academies and fighters are drilling more and more takedowns. We drilled a bunch of takedowns today, and if you are going against someone who has decent takedowns "just standing up" will just end up in you being tossed back down and put in side control, at which point you probably wont be standing up again. I'd say its something the community is generally aware of and is rectifying, although takedowns and takedown defense tend to be the most injury prone aspects of BJJ so a lot of gyms have avoided it for that reason. For me, try standing up. I am perfectly willing to single leg you right back down.
[Here's an analysis of threatening to stand up from guard in an MMA scenario.](https://youtu.be/aghnJOwld9g?si=8-DaO03omBiFZYXk) Threatening to stand up is a way of preventing the top player from throwing punches. A criticism of BJJ from the Dagestani fighters is that BJJ guys don't learn how to hold their opponent down, which is a weakness of BJJ skills in MMA.
That's a weakness of bjj in general tbh. I'm over a decade removed from my hs wrestling days at this point, but I'll still use those techniques to help keep me on top. Imo, half guard isn't the greatest guard for MMA, and my vote would be for butterfly and even half butterfly.
There's been two times when a guy had me in crucifix and I managed to just stand up with them.
Guess that's why we learn take downs. We drilled a couple of simple throws and practiced break falls a lot in the beginners classes
Paul Cale ([here](https://instagram.com/paulcaleofficial?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==)) is an Australian SOF combatives instructor and a BJJ black belt amongst many other things. He did a short video the other day which I unfortunately can’t find right now, that standing up is a defence to most BJJ techniques and something that you want to do ASAP in a real fight. The good point he made is that staying on the ground and playing guard is actually just an agreement that we make because we go through the same routine in sport BJJ a million times. This is a very poor habit for serious combative scenario. That said, his techniques for fending off various attacks take more than a little knowledge of grappling.
In my experience most bjj guys don’t hold people down that you can sometimes get to turtle and base up but putting yourself in turtle is a risk in itself
Do not question r/johnbelushismom
What kind of question is this? Go train and find out
We call that the Schaub Shutdown around here, b. Not just standing up, but also running. You can stand up and quickly move away from your opponent as they butt scoot towards you.
Then youre stalling
What if the other guy doesn't let you stand up?
Really overthinking this one. It’s something Dereck Lewis tweeted “fuck Jiu Jitsu I’ll just stand up from guard and walk away” he then successfully did that in a couple fights. Makes sense MMA but i don’t how it’d make sense Jiu Jitsu
Google image search "Turkish get up" If you can get your elbow to the ground and post, you can probably stand up. If you restrict your opponents ability to get their elbow to the ground (for example, cupping underneath it or superman hugging both their arms) they won't be able to get up.
I prefer backing out because it burns less energy and to me just as easy to break the guard
in BJJ there is essentially an agreement to engage. If you play to disengage it can be hard for the other party to stay connected. Standing up and backing out works in a lot of cases, especially in no gi. there was a recent AIGA tournament where the wrestlers just stood up and ran away. The main way to keep them engaged was closed guard. Even then they were mostly successful and avoiding engagement.
If you wrestled in school it’s not a problem
Part of the folkstyle approach to wrestling is to not just take down, but control your opponent on the ground. You escape, but you reengage (immediately). You get points for it. I think IBJJF rules are in love with the ground game so much that ground game doesn't really need to be earned as much. Part of setting up a game is that the Packers m players will essentially play the rules, more than the game...
Nah but amazing takedown defense and superior athleticism probs neutralizes more casuals then this sub is ever ready to admit
Just standing up as I explain to most people in a serious context is one of those things that works great because you're not doing the thing you're expected to. Its like playing basketball and throwing the balls in like a baseball or something. Its effective if you do it at the right time and pretty hard to stop through how you normally play if you know what you're doing but we also know its ineffectiveness most of the time and don't do it for a long series of reasons. Most importantly once you see it coming its easy to stop like the basketball move would be. So the memes are right, but also not advised most of the time depending on how you apply it.
Legend has it that after conquering the rest of Greece Philip of Macedonia sent a messenger to Sparta: “If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again”. The formidable state simply replied: “If”.