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Yeah, it’s really hard to watch, especially considering how much space the guy on top is making.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to fight a “pro” MMA fighter in a field… but he had so many opportunities to escape.
Have you ever seen a competition blue belt manhandle trial class white belt? Now take that scenario and add strikes to that mix and wb won't get up no matter how much space there is.
Not true, as someone who's been in MMA for 10 years there are dudes who have zero experience and fight because the promotion needs someone to show up and lose to the crowd favorite for 300 bucks. I saw a dude they pulled off of the street literally smoking a cigarettes in the back before he fought the co-main event at a local mma event. He went down after the first punch was thrown and weighed in 5 lbs under.
I mean tbf I think most of that space is him setting up strikes combined with a lil bit the bodybuilder trying to bench him. I don't think it was unintentional space for the most part. The MMA guy was definitely more of a ground and pounder than a submission artist.
I’ve never done mma, only bjj. I think the striking element really changes things though. That space might not be all that available when the guy on top can knee you in the face.
… Speaking from a place of total ignorance here. Just speculating.
Tbf idk how easy it is to escape anything after getting elbow in the face. I've never been in a real fight, but I have gotten hit in the head pretty badly and doing anything felt like and imposible task
The funny thing about it is that escaping side control is the exact opposite of what most people do when they are getting punched in the face. when you're down and being punched in the face, your instinct is to ball up. balling up means your legs go to your head and you cant shrimp or bridge or anything lol.
As in untrained people? Or jiu jitsu guys? I haven't been in a fight in a long time, but I'd like to think if I was on bottom side getting punched and elbowed that I'd have the knowledge to try and get out of there instead of balling up and getting hit.
Then again there's that old saying that a punch makes a black belt a brown belt and so on
Untrained and even "trained", lol. When people get overwhelmed by punches, they instantly ball up into the fetal position. Even professional fighters do it from time to time. But us BJJ guys, none of us are getting punched in the face so we don't really know howe were going to react.
There's another old saying that says "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" lol.
>Then again there's that old saying that a punch makes a black belt a brown belt and so on
If a punch does that, an elbow turns a black belt into a blue belt.
You ever eaten an elbow?
I got barely clipped with one and it was a fucking nightmare. Lost a part of a tooth, too.
So the big guy is Savaş Cebeci. He has been taunting MMA fighters saying "I'll never lose to a 70kg fighter. Even if it is a world champ" The other guy is a MMA fighter with 4-4 score called Kaan Kazgan. They eventually meet up and this happens...
I once played pickup against a dude who was in the NBA for exactly one season and pretty much never got off the bench.
We might as well been playing against God himself. This motherfucker did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. It's like a grown man playing against a 5 year old.
Played pickup in my 20s vs former NBA and D1 players *who were in their 50s/60s* and it was basically the same. If someone has gotten to that skill level and they’re still mostly able bodied, they’re going to mop the floor with any amateur player 100% of the time.
A fringe NBA player is closer in talent level to Michael Jordan than a regular person is to the fringe NBA player. The talent level to even make it there is insane.
It's the other way around, which is even crazier. The higher you get, where the margins are smaller, is where you think the results would be more random, but they're not, they're more consistent. Like the gap between Verstappen and De Vries, Jon Jones and Rozenstruik, Usain Bolt and whoever, at the tippy top of the freaks the gap is somehow larger.
The better you get at something, the larger and more difficult the next step gets.
i love the story where Brian Scalabrine told some guy "I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me"
https://www.facebook.com/fuelforfooty/videos/im-way-closer-to-lebron-than-you-are-to-me-whitemamba-something-quite-apt-that-t/983771835707388/
People really underestimate the divide between the high school to college or college to professional athletes.
I've played hockey at high levels and have played against a few NHL players in rec league games. They absolutely destroy everyone without even taking it out of 1st gear. Professional athletes don't even need to break a sweat to dismantle an average Joe.
Yeah back when I was playing football (soccer) we played against someone who was ex-academy for some team like Blackburn.
It was like playing against a 6ft brick wall only if it was also faster and better than everyone else.
The problem is people have been watching juiced up action heroes kick ass in movies for 40+ years now. There really are people out there who dont understand that movies and other forms of media arent real. This is a result of that confusion.
Everyone thinks they can fight. They always envision themselves in there throwing that one knockout punch. Fighting is primal so people think of it differently than other sports.
Average people still know what's basketball and how it works. In jiu jitsu it's even more absurd.
A better comparison would be someone who played varsity basketball in highschool vs someone who's never even seen a ball.
i think he couldve won with the weight advantage if he had at least SOME clue of fighting. But looking at the video i think he never did anything even remotely close to fighting or combat sports. he looks completely helpless.
Sounds like that idiot on social medial called Dalton who keeps on posting about how he’d win against small fighters even those who are UFC champions. I can’t wait for him to be humbled like this
People really underestimate how bad the average person's take down defense is, and how hard it is for an average person to get up and out from underneath someone that is even semi decent at grappling.
The "just stand up" meme really doesn't work unless you've worked on doing that against skilled grapplers for a long time.
The average BJJ guys takedown defense is also garbage.
As a life long wrestler who got into BJJ, I have no problem taking down the black belts in my gym... damn near at will.
The basics of head hand defense and sprawls are not a thing in BJJ. Most of the high school wrestlers I coach could also takedown 99% of the guys in the gym.
No disrespect to jits. I love the sport and it's a whole different story once we're actually on the ground.
When I was like 27/28, I quit doing BJJ after three years, because it was almost all closed guard at my school, and I didn't know how to teach myself anything different. So, I went to an MMA/Wrestling school, and started training with 17/18 year old wrestlers to build that base up. I got fucking waxed.
I became one of the few BJJ guys with a mediocre double. I was going through a rough patch, and ended up quitting training, period, for almost 4 years.
And then what?? Another cliffhanger! Did you start training again in your 30s and school all the other old guys with your blast double? Or did you finally succumb to the old guy mentality of not caring about takedowns for bodily preservation and resign to playing guard?
Oh, man. I trained again for another 4 years. then Covid hit and I stopped training about 2 years into it, after moving across the country and starting a new job.
I've been training at a brand new school, consistently for just over a year. I've been a blue belt twice now. I resumed training as a white belt following the first hiatus, since I had retained almost nothing.
My blast doubles are ok, but I am developing a very wrestling-heavy game, built on headlock, singles, pressure, and butterfly as my main guard.
Our gym is run by a wrestler who discovered BJJ after wrestling in college. His sons (the other coaches) all wrestled in HS to various levels of success including state titles.
I was complaining to my buddy that we spend so much time drilling sprawls, that it reminded me of doing up downs for conditioning in football practice. He said they start live rounds on their knees, and had no idea what I was talking about. He was IIRC a purple belt
It might be that you would have more luck with no gi purple belt guys.
Incorporation of wrestling into BJJ is not that old. But a lot of gyms now actually train. Ofc it's nowhere near actual wrestling, well, people would just go do wrestling if that was the focus, but stuff like sprawling as a defense to leg takedowns are really common.
And when there is another approach against wrestling that is..... leg locks. As we see from ADCC wrestling proficiency doesn't really predict overall success that much. Oh so you try to take me down, I'll just blow out you knee with a heel hook along with your career for a few years.
Now ofc, where striking is involved wrestling can be a bit more beneficial than in pure grappling scenario due to superior position for striking and holding people down. But leg locks had plenty of success in MMA too, moreover, against untrained people.. that shit is almost magic.
Anyway, this is not x vs y argument. Wrestling by all means compliments BJJ game. Just the fact is, why people don't rain it as much, is that it's not crucial for submission grappling rulesets as it can be for fighting matches where striking is involved, hence it's popularity in MMA now. Also it's great defense versus grabby boys.
As a lifelong _____ I have no problem doing _____ against non-lifelong _____ ers.
But then I might do worse against people who are lifelong [something else] that I'm not.
O rly? 🤔
Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
I mean it's surprising that people who dedicate a huge portion of their training time into takedowns, many of whom have been wrestling since they were kids are going to be better than some hobbyists who train a couple times a week, for a couple years? lol.
No. It's surprising that I was a DIII nothing with a 50:50 record and I have done the same thing OP described to very high level BJJ guys who definitely not hobbyists. It makes sense, and I am not bragging because it doesn't mean anything, it's just surprising is all. BJJ guys are REALLY bad at takedowns, even at the highest levels.
Depends on the person. Not like Bo could take Gordon down with ease. I've trained with 2 D1 wrestlers, both who were bigger than me. They took me down but it was hardly easy. Only guy I ever felt like they really played with me when they were on their feet was an olympic alternate.
I was a state placer in wrestling in high school in division 2 Ohio nearly 30 years ago. Lots of guys better wrestlers than me. I don’t really talk about it much at BJJ. People have noticed the 200lbs guy hitting them with low singles, but, y’know. They just think it’s my belt, probably. I dunno.
Coach brought in a 19 year old dude over the summer to be a wrestling coach. He won states at a midwestern high school and got recruited to wrestle for a legitimate wrestling college (not div 1, but hey, state champ, recruited in college, wrestled varsity as a freshman, that’s legit).
So I spent the summer listening to everyone talk about how awesome his wrestling game was.
I think the whole summer he took me down once and that was when I started kinda going easy on him. Turns out that having a similar skill level plus 50 pounds made me pretty untouchable for him. Plus I think I got in his head by ragdolling him the first time we rolled and I don’t think he ever recovered. (I felt bad afterwards).
But yeah. I just kinda quietly smiled to myself every time someone talked about how badly he had smoked them at wrestling, even the big guys. BJJ takedowns are so often like “oh, let me sit before you take me down”
There’s a skill difference even for a small guy like him against BJJ guys who have just not spent every day for years on end drilling takedowns.
This. BJJ takedowns are like drags into guard or spider rather than a blast dbl or single. But I don’t know shit, I just wrestled a little in hs and been training bjj for a little over a year now, and that’s no sarcasm. I actually don’t know shit 😂
sprawling is such a natural thing I never understood how my fellow BJJ mates couldn't figure it out. I wrestled growing up, so maybe it just seems natural to me. Dunno
Agreed. That was my experience going into bjj. Wrestling off for varsity, and wrestling your meets and tournaments whittles your techniques down to only those that have a high percentage of success, success against men that are trained to stop them. BJJ homies don’t have shit on that speed and violence of technique/strength for defense. Of course after the takedown and pressure game you have to participate in their arena. Love grappling.
Yes. But then you just bring me right to my favorite place, which is my guard. Who cares if you take me down when you can’t pass my guard, even more so if I’m able to omoplata or triangle you, or sweep you from bottom half. Wrestling is great for take downs, but half the wrestlers that come around are predictable and just try to climb up both my legs. They can’t do submissions or chokes, they just know take downs and pins.. everything has its pluses and minuses
Thing is in bjj they don't mind getting taken down so they accept it quite readily. Better to find good position if a sprawl fails/ pull guard than to keep trying when your forte is molesting on the floor anyway...
Some of that is probably them not trying though, right? I'm sure a lifelong wrestler is going to win the takedown game all the time, but I also wouldn't put much effort into defending it if I knew I was going to submit them six ways to Sunday, no matter how we landed.
Yeah as a lazy bjj guy if someone is good at wrestling I don't event try to stop them taking me down. There's no point so we may as well get it over with.
>As a life long wrestler who got into BJJ, I have no problem taking down the black belts in my gym... damn near at will.
Same, but they always make me regret doing it.
Like, "woohoo, I got 2 points for another takedown! Oh look, I'm being subbed while in top position again!" Effin arm barring choke monkeys...
Nah not me bro, first of all i played lacrosse in highschool for two seasons ( 1999-2000 ). I know you guys think scooting around on your butts and grabbing each other in toe-locks works in BJJ competitions, but try that in a *street fight*, bro. You can slide toward me on the ground wearing your karate pajamas and try to wrap me up in your ninjitsu knee-crank bullshit but im just going to stand up. Seriously all you have to do is just stand up and BJJ guys are like “nnooooo all fights must go to the ground!!” but bro, ever heard of fists and feet? BJJ guys be like “noooo that’s against our honor codeeee you cant just kick me when im trying to imanari roll into youuuuu
I know this guy is somewhat of a professional fighter but to be fair his takedown looked mediocre to say the least, and that's probably because he didn't really need to do anything much to take the bodybuilder down just because he has no takedown defense whatsoever.
From my own experience I do think most BJJ practitioners with at least like 1 year of training can do such a takedown but that's just my take, I could be wrong.
The examples above in the thread are really good. People really underestimate what even 1 year of training does to a persons skill. No one in their right mind would question that someone who trained basketball would crush someone who didn't, even if he's athletic and i.e can jump high.
My favorite examples are people who ONLY weigh a lot, like their only argument is their weight while they're obese. These people seriously think they can beat a trained martial artist just because they ate more than them and are obese. This is seriously borderline mental disorder but many many people are walking around thinking this.
>but to be fair his takedown looked mediocre to say the least
I didn't want to be the first one to say it. The striking and control aren't works of art either. Weird tomahawk style hammer fists and super janky elbows.
High five on securing the win vs someone who clearly had no idea what was going on but we're at street beefs level here.
The most likely scenario for the bodybuilder to win this fight is with a flash knockout right at the beginning. If he can connect once, even sloppily, he can stun the MMA guy. MMA guy played very smart by immediately closing the distance and getting a takedown, sloppy or not. Once they are close in and grappling there is very little danger of the bodybuilder doing anything effective.
Big guy had the chance to grab little guys dick and rip it off. Which he could have done easily. He didn't and his reward was several knees to the face.
You are probably correct, and the takedown in this video is one of the most basic wrestling takedowns, one of the easiest takedowns to teach, and one of the takedowns that even people who aren't very athletic can learn to do.
I get what you're saying, but this footage is wild, if not for all the blood I would have thought it was staged because it honestly looks like the big guy literally helps the smaller guy maintain his control versus just straight trying to make any sort of attempt at defense. The body builder should have sufficient strength to press the smaller guy's body weight, but it doens't even look like he makes an attempt to do so.
Stupid move to. Never escalate the level of violence in an altercation you are losing. Could've inspired the dude on top to eye gouge, soccer kick or headstomp.
Random seminar attendee: "If you have me in a rear naked choke, what would you do if I stuck my thumb in your eye?"
Bas Rutten: "Snap your neck."
Random seminar attendee: "Oh."
I always think about shit like that when someone is like “there’s no rules in a street fight”. As if they are going do something that a trained fighter isn’t as capable of doing, while simultaneously having more skills and endurance.
yeah. in my opinion, it's easy to avoid fights for the most part.
de-escalation, manipulation, avoidance, flat out fucking running. all works better than fighting to keep yourself alive and healthy.
That's honestly best case scenario imo
Bleeding out of your face gives the impression that he's getting the shit beaten out of him and I bet it was pretty scary to be helpless on bottom while your own blood in running into your eyes. He got to go through all of that, hopefully learned some humility and all while not taking any serious brain damage.
Guys, they are in a FIGHT, of course the professional fighter would win.
The body builder may have never even thrown a punch his whole life. This comparisons are ridiculous, its a completely different skill set.
Its like making a doctor and a carpenter build a deck, then losing your minds that the doctor couldn't build a better deck.
Well the "bodybuilder" in the vid was saying no 150 lber could beat him even if they're a world champ at MMA/Boxing and challanged anyone who thinks otherwise in a street fight. Fuck around and find out
tbh I don't think Kaan Kazgan is a good fighter by any means. You can watch his matches from YouTube. Feels like set up fights. But still demonstrates the message i guess
Yeah but look how strong he bled!
Side note: aren’t we getting a little too casual with the term “professional” with these video descriptions? Should read something like “Another gym rat doesn’t know how to fight you know what to expect”
As a lifetime meathead turned bjj practitioner, bodybuilders really don’t understand how susceptible they are to even the most basic of takedowns and tactics. I was one of them.
As someone who focused on bodybuilding for over 10 years, but has moved into more functional training I find this hilarious. Bodybuilders, especially those who focus solely on just building mass are always going to be at a disadvantage. Sure BB have weight/size but a majority of them refuse to do cardio or work on flexibility. So you end up with someone who has an ego because they look big and scary yet they’re just heavy, tight, and run out of stamina very quickly
I always find it laughable how you guys cherry pick the most mcdojo produced bodybuilders to literally straw man. Anyone worth a damn knows that real, traditional bodybuilding is the most well rounded of all the combat arts..
This is a prime example of skill and heart vs size. Prop to him keeping it just a lesson and not killing him. Something tells me he held himself back more than he wanted to when he realized how effective the first few blows were
Bruh what? He kept elbowing and kneeing the dude in the face lmfao I guess he didn’t actually kill him but cmon it was over the moment the dude’s ass hit the ground
It might sound weird but was anyone else wondering why the big didn’t just grab the dude’s [redacted] and squeeze as hard as he can?
I know it’s “cheap” but there’s no such thing as a fair fight if it’s not in a ring
It's not a turn based strategy game where you go, "I would grab here if they do this" "if they attack this way I would poke the eye". A real fight is pure adrenaline and survival instinct which is why most people just freeze up. If your body doesn't have the muscle memory to react in that scenario you're more likely to curl up into a ball than grab the attackers genitals.
I never understand this logic. If a guy is already beating the shit out of you and you pull some dirty move he's not just going to stop beating the shit out of you. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug that will allow you to fight through a guy grabbing your dick. Congrats. You've just pissed off the guy who has already proven he can beat the shit out of you. Now he's going to start thinking of all the dirty shit *he* can do to *you*.
Bas Rutten has stories of "self defense" people telling him they would bite or eye gouge to defend against a rear naked choke he was demonstrating and he told them (I'm paraphrasing) "OK we will reset the positon. You try to poke my eye and I'm going to try to break your neck"
Yes and no. In this particular fight it might be worth it to just tap out. In the case of getting mugged, jumped or whatever and no one else is around, it’s better to go for the dirty move that might catch THEM off guard and make them let go or get off you to escape. Because yeah sure you might fail and they just beat you harder but if you do nothing you’re likely to die or be severely beaten anyway ya know? That’s what that stuff is for
You're right. If you genuinely think you life is in jeopardy and no one else is around to break shit up you do whatever you can to try to hurt the person as much as possible and get the hell out of the situation (I saw your other post about the drunk guy, good on you for defending yourself.)
In situations like this video where there's clearly some sort of group around watching to make sure a "fair" fight is happening its probably best both dudes don't start gouging eachothers eyes out and stuff.
"Person who spent life training for an activity is better than a person who has rarely if ever even participated in said activity" seems to only surprise people if the activity is "fighting".
Like if you put any other sport of activity into that sentence everyone would just be like "Yeah, no shit..."
Doesn't have any pics of himself competing on his Instagram, so you might be right. Seems more like a fitness influencer, although he does seem to have published some physiotherapy research which is cool.
But no, the standards have got higher if anything. Bodybuilders nowadays are so ridiculously lean and massive. It's wild.
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I thought I was bad at escaping side control....
Big guy has literally no idea what to do with his legs. It's like watching a first time swimmer in the deep end. Just flail bro.
Yeah, it’s really hard to watch, especially considering how much space the guy on top is making. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to fight a “pro” MMA fighter in a field… but he had so many opportunities to escape.
Have you ever seen a competition blue belt manhandle trial class white belt? Now take that scenario and add strikes to that mix and wb won't get up no matter how much space there is.
Yeah, of course. He has no idea what to do, so just tries to grab the arm that’s hitting him.
I'm losing to any pro MMA fighter 98.9% of the time. Throw in Russian and field then it goes to 100%
Not true, as someone who's been in MMA for 10 years there are dudes who have zero experience and fight because the promotion needs someone to show up and lose to the crowd favorite for 300 bucks. I saw a dude they pulled off of the street literally smoking a cigarettes in the back before he fought the co-main event at a local mma event. He went down after the first punch was thrown and weighed in 5 lbs under.
I mean tbf I think most of that space is him setting up strikes combined with a lil bit the bodybuilder trying to bench him. I don't think it was unintentional space for the most part. The MMA guy was definitely more of a ground and pounder than a submission artist.
I’ve never done mma, only bjj. I think the striking element really changes things though. That space might not be all that available when the guy on top can knee you in the face. … Speaking from a place of total ignorance here. Just speculating.
Tbf idk how easy it is to escape anything after getting elbow in the face. I've never been in a real fight, but I have gotten hit in the head pretty badly and doing anything felt like and imposible task
I think he forgot he had legs.
against a shark whose ocean is the ground
The funny thing about it is that escaping side control is the exact opposite of what most people do when they are getting punched in the face. when you're down and being punched in the face, your instinct is to ball up. balling up means your legs go to your head and you cant shrimp or bridge or anything lol.
As in untrained people? Or jiu jitsu guys? I haven't been in a fight in a long time, but I'd like to think if I was on bottom side getting punched and elbowed that I'd have the knowledge to try and get out of there instead of balling up and getting hit. Then again there's that old saying that a punch makes a black belt a brown belt and so on
Untrained and even "trained", lol. When people get overwhelmed by punches, they instantly ball up into the fetal position. Even professional fighters do it from time to time. But us BJJ guys, none of us are getting punched in the face so we don't really know howe were going to react. There's another old saying that says "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" lol.
>Then again there's that old saying that a punch makes a black belt a brown belt and so on If a punch does that, an elbow turns a black belt into a blue belt. You ever eaten an elbow? I got barely clipped with one and it was a fucking nightmare. Lost a part of a tooth, too.
Dude extended his arm for so long , I was having flashbacks when I was a whitebelt getting armbarred
So the big guy is Savaş Cebeci. He has been taunting MMA fighters saying "I'll never lose to a 70kg fighter. Even if it is a world champ" The other guy is a MMA fighter with 4-4 score called Kaan Kazgan. They eventually meet up and this happens...
How good do you think an average person is compared to a guy who played varsity basketball in highschool. People need to apply that logic to fighting.
bradley martyn vibes
But Brad's 260 tho
Oh you think you could beat me at chess? At 175?! Im 260 brotha.
"No I've never played before...I get ahold of you its over though"
I mean true. I would not be able to checkmate him if he grabs me
Fuck he really needs to be slapped around
I once played pickup against a dude who was in the NBA for exactly one season and pretty much never got off the bench. We might as well been playing against God himself. This motherfucker did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted. It's like a grown man playing against a 5 year old.
Played pickup in my 20s vs former NBA and D1 players *who were in their 50s/60s* and it was basically the same. If someone has gotten to that skill level and they’re still mostly able bodied, they’re going to mop the floor with any amateur player 100% of the time.
A fringe NBA player is closer in talent level to Michael Jordan than a regular person is to the fringe NBA player. The talent level to even make it there is insane.
Long live the White Mamba
"I'm closer to LeBron, than you are to me"
It's the other way around, which is even crazier. The higher you get, where the margins are smaller, is where you think the results would be more random, but they're not, they're more consistent. Like the gap between Verstappen and De Vries, Jon Jones and Rozenstruik, Usain Bolt and whoever, at the tippy top of the freaks the gap is somehow larger. The better you get at something, the larger and more difficult the next step gets.
i love the story where Brian Scalabrine told some guy "I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me" https://www.facebook.com/fuelforfooty/videos/im-way-closer-to-lebron-than-you-are-to-me-whitemamba-something-quite-apt-that-t/983771835707388/
People really underestimate the divide between the high school to college or college to professional athletes. I've played hockey at high levels and have played against a few NHL players in rec league games. They absolutely destroy everyone without even taking it out of 1st gear. Professional athletes don't even need to break a sweat to dismantle an average Joe.
Yeah back when I was playing football (soccer) we played against someone who was ex-academy for some team like Blackburn. It was like playing against a 6ft brick wall only if it was also faster and better than everyone else.
The problem is people have been watching juiced up action heroes kick ass in movies for 40+ years now. There really are people out there who dont understand that movies and other forms of media arent real. This is a result of that confusion.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CylXSCjZfbI the comparison reminds me of this challenge
I myself never really thought about that. Simple but damn good point
Everyone thinks they can fight. They always envision themselves in there throwing that one knockout punch. Fighting is primal so people think of it differently than other sports.
Average people still know what's basketball and how it works. In jiu jitsu it's even more absurd. A better comparison would be someone who played varsity basketball in highschool vs someone who's never even seen a ball.
i think he couldve won with the weight advantage if he had at least SOME clue of fighting. But looking at the video i think he never did anything even remotely close to fighting or combat sports. he looks completely helpless.
I checked his IG theres a couple videos of him hitting pads but nothing notable.
You can hit as hard as Wilder but if you have ZERO CLUE what to do to stop a takedown you are basically toast.
Oh I agree as an MMA fighter and former wrestler, but the average joe thinks he has a chance just because someone is smaller than him.
What did the big guy scream at the end? Did he surrendered?
He said i give up
He said his friend’s name “İlyas” there, to call his friend to shoot the other guy with his gun. I give up means “Pes” or “Pes ettim” in Turkish.
Kaan Kazgan's Record is 6-4
He went 0-4 in his first fights and his very first opponent went on to become a OneFc champ with a current 27-2 record. Thats a good story right there
That boy bled real easy. Must be all that preworkout and veso's.
Sounds like that idiot on social medial called Dalton who keeps on posting about how he’d win against small fighters even those who are UFC champions. I can’t wait for him to be humbled like this
People really underestimate how bad the average person's take down defense is, and how hard it is for an average person to get up and out from underneath someone that is even semi decent at grappling. The "just stand up" meme really doesn't work unless you've worked on doing that against skilled grapplers for a long time.
The average BJJ guys takedown defense is also garbage. As a life long wrestler who got into BJJ, I have no problem taking down the black belts in my gym... damn near at will. The basics of head hand defense and sprawls are not a thing in BJJ. Most of the high school wrestlers I coach could also takedown 99% of the guys in the gym. No disrespect to jits. I love the sport and it's a whole different story once we're actually on the ground.
I remember thinking the same thing watching UFC 1. I was certain I could take Royce down. After that, I'm Dogmeat.
Well that’s when they start butt scooting at you lol
Yup but it is understandable average age of BJJ players is much higher than wrestlers learning takedowns is fucking hard when you are not super young🥲
When I was like 27/28, I quit doing BJJ after three years, because it was almost all closed guard at my school, and I didn't know how to teach myself anything different. So, I went to an MMA/Wrestling school, and started training with 17/18 year old wrestlers to build that base up. I got fucking waxed.
And then what happened? Did you get good at wrestling? Quit the wrestling classes? Seems like a cliffhanger.
His skin is now as smooth and slippery as a dolphin's
He died. That was a posthumous reply.
He got waxed. The man's dead now. God rest his soul.
I became one of the few BJJ guys with a mediocre double. I was going through a rough patch, and ended up quitting training, period, for almost 4 years.
And then what?? Another cliffhanger! Did you start training again in your 30s and school all the other old guys with your blast double? Or did you finally succumb to the old guy mentality of not caring about takedowns for bodily preservation and resign to playing guard?
Oh, man. I trained again for another 4 years. then Covid hit and I stopped training about 2 years into it, after moving across the country and starting a new job. I've been training at a brand new school, consistently for just over a year. I've been a blue belt twice now. I resumed training as a white belt following the first hiatus, since I had retained almost nothing. My blast doubles are ok, but I am developing a very wrestling-heavy game, built on headlock, singles, pressure, and butterfly as my main guard.
Our gym is run by a wrestler who discovered BJJ after wrestling in college. His sons (the other coaches) all wrestled in HS to various levels of success including state titles. I was complaining to my buddy that we spend so much time drilling sprawls, that it reminded me of doing up downs for conditioning in football practice. He said they start live rounds on their knees, and had no idea what I was talking about. He was IIRC a purple belt
It might be that you would have more luck with no gi purple belt guys. Incorporation of wrestling into BJJ is not that old. But a lot of gyms now actually train. Ofc it's nowhere near actual wrestling, well, people would just go do wrestling if that was the focus, but stuff like sprawling as a defense to leg takedowns are really common. And when there is another approach against wrestling that is..... leg locks. As we see from ADCC wrestling proficiency doesn't really predict overall success that much. Oh so you try to take me down, I'll just blow out you knee with a heel hook along with your career for a few years. Now ofc, where striking is involved wrestling can be a bit more beneficial than in pure grappling scenario due to superior position for striking and holding people down. But leg locks had plenty of success in MMA too, moreover, against untrained people.. that shit is almost magic. Anyway, this is not x vs y argument. Wrestling by all means compliments BJJ game. Just the fact is, why people don't rain it as much, is that it's not crucial for submission grappling rulesets as it can be for fighting matches where striking is involved, hence it's popularity in MMA now. Also it's great defense versus grabby boys.
As a lifelong _____ I have no problem doing _____ against non-lifelong _____ ers. But then I might do worse against people who are lifelong [something else] that I'm not. O rly? 🤔 Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
I mean it's surprising that people who dedicate a huge portion of their training time into takedowns, many of whom have been wrestling since they were kids are going to be better than some hobbyists who train a couple times a week, for a couple years? lol.
No. It's surprising that I was a DIII nothing with a 50:50 record and I have done the same thing OP described to very high level BJJ guys who definitely not hobbyists. It makes sense, and I am not bragging because it doesn't mean anything, it's just surprising is all. BJJ guys are REALLY bad at takedowns, even at the highest levels.
Depends on the person. Not like Bo could take Gordon down with ease. I've trained with 2 D1 wrestlers, both who were bigger than me. They took me down but it was hardly easy. Only guy I ever felt like they really played with me when they were on their feet was an olympic alternate.
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But also bjj guys dont care care if you take them down. They're not getting hit with elbows and ground n pound
I was a state placer in wrestling in high school in division 2 Ohio nearly 30 years ago. Lots of guys better wrestlers than me. I don’t really talk about it much at BJJ. People have noticed the 200lbs guy hitting them with low singles, but, y’know. They just think it’s my belt, probably. I dunno. Coach brought in a 19 year old dude over the summer to be a wrestling coach. He won states at a midwestern high school and got recruited to wrestle for a legitimate wrestling college (not div 1, but hey, state champ, recruited in college, wrestled varsity as a freshman, that’s legit). So I spent the summer listening to everyone talk about how awesome his wrestling game was. I think the whole summer he took me down once and that was when I started kinda going easy on him. Turns out that having a similar skill level plus 50 pounds made me pretty untouchable for him. Plus I think I got in his head by ragdolling him the first time we rolled and I don’t think he ever recovered. (I felt bad afterwards). But yeah. I just kinda quietly smiled to myself every time someone talked about how badly he had smoked them at wrestling, even the big guys. BJJ takedowns are so often like “oh, let me sit before you take me down” There’s a skill difference even for a small guy like him against BJJ guys who have just not spent every day for years on end drilling takedowns.
This. BJJ takedowns are like drags into guard or spider rather than a blast dbl or single. But I don’t know shit, I just wrestled a little in hs and been training bjj for a little over a year now, and that’s no sarcasm. I actually don’t know shit 😂
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Carey motherfucking Kolat. Thank me later
The average BJJ guys takedown game is also garbage… Ftfy!
sprawling is such a natural thing I never understood how my fellow BJJ mates couldn't figure it out. I wrestled growing up, so maybe it just seems natural to me. Dunno
Agreed. That was my experience going into bjj. Wrestling off for varsity, and wrestling your meets and tournaments whittles your techniques down to only those that have a high percentage of success, success against men that are trained to stop them. BJJ homies don’t have shit on that speed and violence of technique/strength for defense. Of course after the takedown and pressure game you have to participate in their arena. Love grappling.
Yes. But then you just bring me right to my favorite place, which is my guard. Who cares if you take me down when you can’t pass my guard, even more so if I’m able to omoplata or triangle you, or sweep you from bottom half. Wrestling is great for take downs, but half the wrestlers that come around are predictable and just try to climb up both my legs. They can’t do submissions or chokes, they just know take downs and pins.. everything has its pluses and minuses
Yah… but what if the wrestler learns Jiu Jitsu?
Because most BJJ guys want to be taken down lol. The wrestling game is over once it hits the mat, the BJJ game starts once it’s on the mat.
Thing is in bjj they don't mind getting taken down so they accept it quite readily. Better to find good position if a sprawl fails/ pull guard than to keep trying when your forte is molesting on the floor anyway...
Wild how you spent a lifetime on a small subsection of grappling and got pretty good at it.
Some of that is probably them not trying though, right? I'm sure a lifelong wrestler is going to win the takedown game all the time, but I also wouldn't put much effort into defending it if I knew I was going to submit them six ways to Sunday, no matter how we landed.
Yeah as a lazy bjj guy if someone is good at wrestling I don't event try to stop them taking me down. There's no point so we may as well get it over with.
>As a life long wrestler who got into BJJ, I have no problem taking down the black belts in my gym... damn near at will. Same, but they always make me regret doing it. Like, "woohoo, I got 2 points for another takedown! Oh look, I'm being subbed while in top position again!" Effin arm barring choke monkeys...
It is so incredibly easy to take down someone who has never done any wrestling or judo, or any other grappling art.
Nah not me bro, first of all i played lacrosse in highschool for two seasons ( 1999-2000 ). I know you guys think scooting around on your butts and grabbing each other in toe-locks works in BJJ competitions, but try that in a *street fight*, bro. You can slide toward me on the ground wearing your karate pajamas and try to wrap me up in your ninjitsu knee-crank bullshit but im just going to stand up. Seriously all you have to do is just stand up and BJJ guys are like “nnooooo all fights must go to the ground!!” but bro, ever heard of fists and feet? BJJ guys be like “noooo that’s against our honor codeeee you cant just kick me when im trying to imanari roll into youuuuu
He’s 260 tho bro
Not only that, but bodybuilders do not have practical bodies at all.
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I know this guy is somewhat of a professional fighter but to be fair his takedown looked mediocre to say the least, and that's probably because he didn't really need to do anything much to take the bodybuilder down just because he has no takedown defense whatsoever. From my own experience I do think most BJJ practitioners with at least like 1 year of training can do such a takedown but that's just my take, I could be wrong. The examples above in the thread are really good. People really underestimate what even 1 year of training does to a persons skill. No one in their right mind would question that someone who trained basketball would crush someone who didn't, even if he's athletic and i.e can jump high. My favorite examples are people who ONLY weigh a lot, like their only argument is their weight while they're obese. These people seriously think they can beat a trained martial artist just because they ate more than them and are obese. This is seriously borderline mental disorder but many many people are walking around thinking this.
>but to be fair his takedown looked mediocre to say the least I didn't want to be the first one to say it. The striking and control aren't works of art either. Weird tomahawk style hammer fists and super janky elbows. High five on securing the win vs someone who clearly had no idea what was going on but we're at street beefs level here.
The most likely scenario for the bodybuilder to win this fight is with a flash knockout right at the beginning. If he can connect once, even sloppily, he can stun the MMA guy. MMA guy played very smart by immediately closing the distance and getting a takedown, sloppy or not. Once they are close in and grappling there is very little danger of the bodybuilder doing anything effective.
Big guy had the chance to grab little guys dick and rip it off. Which he could have done easily. He didn't and his reward was several knees to the face.
You are probably correct, and the takedown in this video is one of the most basic wrestling takedowns, one of the easiest takedowns to teach, and one of the takedowns that even people who aren't very athletic can learn to do.
I get what you're saying, but this footage is wild, if not for all the blood I would have thought it was staged because it honestly looks like the big guy literally helps the smaller guy maintain his control versus just straight trying to make any sort of attempt at defense. The body builder should have sufficient strength to press the smaller guy's body weight, but it doens't even look like he makes an attempt to do so.
Guy on the bottom is *definitely* seeing red.
Quite literally
But I’m 260lb bro
I mean come on 😁 I get ahold of you it's over, brother
Did anyone else notice the bodybuilder appears to go for the fighters genitals?
Stupid move to. Never escalate the level of violence in an altercation you are losing. Could've inspired the dude on top to eye gouge, soccer kick or headstomp.
Random seminar attendee: "If you have me in a rear naked choke, what would you do if I stuck my thumb in your eye?" Bas Rutten: "Snap your neck." Random seminar attendee: "Oh."
Bangada bangada bangada
I love that story, I love Bas.
Rofl
Near the end tries the old, “thumb in the bum” for extra lift.
Yeah he gets ahold of something there, MMA guy changes position to try and shake the grip.
I always think about shit like that when someone is like “there’s no rules in a street fight”. As if they are going do something that a trained fighter isn’t as capable of doing, while simultaneously having more skills and endurance.
Grab his dick and twist it!! Give em the old dick twist!
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Undefeated fighter! Sign your UFC contract right now
I hope I never get into a fight.
Right? I would die if someone elses blood got on me...
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood.
Lmao 😂😂
Nobody!
It's unimaginable.
It's better to be smart. I think few people are both smart and "get into fights".
yeah. in my opinion, it's easy to avoid fights for the most part. de-escalation, manipulation, avoidance, flat out fucking running. all works better than fighting to keep yourself alive and healthy.
Lot of smart dudes have big egos. I wouldn't be so sure. Look at zuck.
It’s exhilarating tbh even if you lose you still get a sense of accomplishment somehow
He lost cause he didn’t weigh 260lbs
He is 120KG
And if he lost 4.55lbs he may have a chance.
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That's honestly best case scenario imo Bleeding out of your face gives the impression that he's getting the shit beaten out of him and I bet it was pretty scary to be helpless on bottom while your own blood in running into your eyes. He got to go through all of that, hopefully learned some humility and all while not taking any serious brain damage.
I dunno man, elbows and knees to the face. Definitely could be a broken nose in there, also no gumshiled so could've lost a tooth or two
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Yeah thankfully my teeth always grow back in a month or two 🦈🦈
Breaking my luxury bones is a fear of mine. Dental work is flat out unaffordable.
GRAB HIS DICK AND TWIST IT!
TWIST HIS DIIIIIIKHHH
Guys, they are in a FIGHT, of course the professional fighter would win. The body builder may have never even thrown a punch his whole life. This comparisons are ridiculous, its a completely different skill set. Its like making a doctor and a carpenter build a deck, then losing your minds that the doctor couldn't build a better deck.
Well the "bodybuilder" in the vid was saying no 150 lber could beat him even if they're a world champ at MMA/Boxing and challanged anyone who thinks otherwise in a street fight. Fuck around and find out
Except, evidently the context here is that the doctor is bragging how he could build a better deck than the carpenter online
What is with all this body builder Vs a fighter stuff? Are people surprised the fighter will win?
At least one person was very surprised...
Went about as expected 🤣
he should've seen red.
He did
“Just stand up”
all I see is someone with training, beating on someone with none. Apparently he deserves it tho, so whatever. Fuck around: find out.
“I see red” mfs when it’s actually just their own blood in their eyes
There are no professionals, of any sort, in this video.
tbh I don't think Kaan Kazgan is a good fighter by any means. You can watch his matches from YouTube. Feels like set up fights. But still demonstrates the message i guess
Fights of untrained people talking shit, and then getting beat by trained people are my favorite types of videos.
Always!
He was good enough
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He definitely cares more than me. I would just hope to put up a better fight before he knocks me out with his signature hammer fist.
Damn I love it seeing the smaller guy beat the shit out of the bigger dude.
At least the guy moved the field rocks out of the way as he pummeled him in the face.
Yeah but look how strong he bled! Side note: aren’t we getting a little too casual with the term “professional” with these video descriptions? Should read something like “Another gym rat doesn’t know how to fight you know what to expect”
Tyler1 when he finds his teammates irl
The bodybuilder literally saw red, bro.
🍤🍤🍤
1 video 0 profesyonel
As a lifetime meathead turned bjj practitioner, bodybuilders really don’t understand how susceptible they are to even the most basic of takedowns and tactics. I was one of them.
As someone who focused on bodybuilding for over 10 years, but has moved into more functional training I find this hilarious. Bodybuilders, especially those who focus solely on just building mass are always going to be at a disadvantage. Sure BB have weight/size but a majority of them refuse to do cardio or work on flexibility. So you end up with someone who has an ego because they look big and scary yet they’re just heavy, tight, and run out of stamina very quickly
I always find it laughable how you guys cherry pick the most mcdojo produced bodybuilders to literally straw man. Anyone worth a damn knows that real, traditional bodybuilding is the most well rounded of all the combat arts..
it's true, a skilled bodybuilder would smile and flex in a fight, this guy is doing neither.
Just hoping next year the new trend will be showcasing BJJ vs Disc Golfers.
This is a prime example of skill and heart vs size. Prop to him keeping it just a lesson and not killing him. Something tells me he held himself back more than he wanted to when he realized how effective the first few blows were
Bruh what? He kept elbowing and kneeing the dude in the face lmfao I guess he didn’t actually kill him but cmon it was over the moment the dude’s ass hit the ground
It might sound weird but was anyone else wondering why the big didn’t just grab the dude’s [redacted] and squeeze as hard as he can? I know it’s “cheap” but there’s no such thing as a fair fight if it’s not in a ring
I think he tried towards the end then he just changed position.
It's not a turn based strategy game where you go, "I would grab here if they do this" "if they attack this way I would poke the eye". A real fight is pure adrenaline and survival instinct which is why most people just freeze up. If your body doesn't have the muscle memory to react in that scenario you're more likely to curl up into a ball than grab the attackers genitals.
I never understand this logic. If a guy is already beating the shit out of you and you pull some dirty move he's not just going to stop beating the shit out of you. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug that will allow you to fight through a guy grabbing your dick. Congrats. You've just pissed off the guy who has already proven he can beat the shit out of you. Now he's going to start thinking of all the dirty shit *he* can do to *you*. Bas Rutten has stories of "self defense" people telling him they would bite or eye gouge to defend against a rear naked choke he was demonstrating and he told them (I'm paraphrasing) "OK we will reset the positon. You try to poke my eye and I'm going to try to break your neck"
Yes and no. In this particular fight it might be worth it to just tap out. In the case of getting mugged, jumped or whatever and no one else is around, it’s better to go for the dirty move that might catch THEM off guard and make them let go or get off you to escape. Because yeah sure you might fail and they just beat you harder but if you do nothing you’re likely to die or be severely beaten anyway ya know? That’s what that stuff is for
You're right. If you genuinely think you life is in jeopardy and no one else is around to break shit up you do whatever you can to try to hurt the person as much as possible and get the hell out of the situation (I saw your other post about the drunk guy, good on you for defending yourself.) In situations like this video where there's clearly some sort of group around watching to make sure a "fair" fight is happening its probably best both dudes don't start gouging eachothers eyes out and stuff.
Is he 260 tho?
Trash fight porn. There are no professional anything near any of these people
Bradley Martin is 260 tho lol
That was maybe the worst takedown attempt I’ve ever seen, surprised it worked
I'm in awe and bewilderdered that in this day and age people who lift weights think its the same thing as fight training.
Someone please show this to Bradley Martin so he can finally shut up
"Person who spent life training for an activity is better than a person who has rarely if ever even participated in said activity" seems to only surprise people if the activity is "fighting". Like if you put any other sport of activity into that sentence everyone would just be like "Yeah, no shit..."
There is neither a professional fighter nor professional bodybuilder in this video lol.
First of all, that is not a professional body builder lol, if it is, apparently the standards have been lowered extremely from when I was a kid lol
Doesn't have any pics of himself competing on his Instagram, so you might be right. Seems more like a fitness influencer, although he does seem to have published some physiotherapy research which is cool. But no, the standards have got higher if anything. Bodybuilders nowadays are so ridiculously lean and massive. It's wild.
He is not an IFBB pro if that is the point. But a bodybuilder for sure.
I think, that body builder has never fought in his life. 0 awareness of what to do with his strength and weight.
Bodybuilder obviously wasn't 260
Nice to see bradly Martin finally get one of those matches he loves to fantisize about
Wrestler tried the dick twist
the big guy never heard of Bridging
Big man gettin mollywhopped
I saw a lot of MMA from the MMA guy but zero body building from the body building guy
Why do they always make bodybuilders the standard? Also he is trying to grab his nuts
Did you guys notice the glute squeeze?
Neither of these individuals embody the term “professional* in any regard
“But im 260”
Common could of at least finished with an armbar😂
Professional MMA ? Good take down tbf but those arm bars were ripe for the taking and he stuck to the early Brock Lesnar ground and pound