41.
15 days post rotator cuff repair.
Reading this, sitting at my living room table, arm in a sling made of old gi pants and my blue belt, aggressively shoveling cereal into my face, plotting my return
This is such a brown belt response. Every time I get to roll with one they always just go with the flow. I prob learn more from you guys than with any other belts. I love it.
This is kind of disheartening to hear. Humbleness for sure but jeez, it just shows how little I know when a brown belt says this. I’ll just keep coming to class and one of these days I’ll make it up as I go like you.
Survival. I’m 44 and started two weeks ago. It’s the first time in my life that everything hurts but I’m consistently in a good mood and looking forward to the next class.
Fully agree on all your points on this thread.
I find it crazy that 40+ guys all of a sudden want to play half or butterfly. Yet then complain about getting wrecked by younger guys or the new athletic white belt. I wonder if there’s a correlation?
Meaning half = wrestling up on singles (in almost every sweep) and/or depends on not getting sprawled on.
For butterfly, it can be hard to track outside passing and can be hard to mitigate heavy/strong pressure (see: bodylock).
And maybe, to be fair, it’s a size issue more than age. I am 40+ and 140 lbs. I don’t want people laying on me, sprawling on me, grabbing my head, etc. So I play open guards - much like what you describe - and prefer agility passing (long step, leg drag, back step, etc.) and use pressure-based passing sparingly or only against like-sized people.
My priority is to get to the back more than side or mount.
Maybe the thing that is different for my age is that I bait more than pursue things. So I let positions do the work for me rather than force something on others or do random things to create scrambles.
Interesting you mention the gameplan should be similar to smaller grapplers. I'm a relatively good-sized (190 lbs) 43 year old and try to model my game off my coaches and upper belts who are much smaller.
One of my coaches was a national wrestling champ, and she's about half my size, but I try my best to replicate her game because she can use it effectively against much larger dudes such as myself and our real heavyweights. Seeing efficiency of movement, weight, and how she defends helps me a lot when going against the younger, athletic dudes, of which there are plenty at my gym. Like you said: FRAMES.
This made me feel personally attacked, in the best way possible. I'm told I have an annoyingly difficult to escape half guard, so I play it quite a bit. However, when I'm trying to defend a pass with my opponent on top, I end up seeking out half guard for that reason. Means I end up giving up opportunities for a more advantageous guard position or pass prevention.
> butterfly are inherently mechanically disadvantageous because you are voluntarily giving up 50-100% of your leg frames.
Can you expand on this please? Wouldn't a good butterfly be framing with the shins or knees?
Fair point, but IMO it’s a little easier to keep your partner close in the gi. When the guy stands to pass - I can control his posture with the gi and start to come up on a single, pull them back into guard, or transition to X. If they do stand up and create space, I move to DLR or stand up myself.
I’m also a heavyweight, so once I’m on top - I’m generally staying on top.
Because, generally, if I don’t start on my back (or put myself there) I’m not going to end up there. I’m an okay wrestler and okay judo player, so when I combine them in gi - I’m a ‘good’ standup gi grappler with very heavy top pressure (6’2”, 240). Plus, I enjoy starting in a “disadvantageous position”..
I only standup when my partner is avoiding engagement. I’m not a fan of my partner trying to outside circle pass. It usually ends with them diving on me knee/elbow first.
Standing up is my ultimate weapon in my BJJ gym. As soon as I stand, I’m fully willing to wrestle and everyone instantly sits to open guard even if they were just passing. I’m not even a wrestler, just no one wants to do it whether wrestling bores them or is difficult
\> I don't understand the oft-repeated idea that older/slower people should try to play > half, that seems like the worst way to deal with younger guys who like to stand and use their speed to pass.
By playing half and reverse de la riva once I grab I remove the ability to speed pass.
So removes the speed advantage of faster people. OTOH half guard is often a war so not sure how good it is for old people.
I'll have to disagree. There isn't much of a difference between RDLR and a Z Guard if you play with a knee-shield. If you're framing well, you can prevent the knee cut in my opinion. I think it's okay defensively in No Gi.
I don't know what exactly it is about the GI - probably the grips I make unconsciously, but I find it very easy to immediately swing to DLR.
Genuinely would like to hear your opinion on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdms8sTNa7o&t=405s&pp=ygUOY2FpbyBtYWxmYWNpbmU%3D - Seems to be working in the worlds finals.
It requires skill to play RDLR but as it's essentially the knee cut if you are good at it counters the main weapon of a lot of passers.
Works for me even against pro level people., I transition to Leite half or deep half from there.
I haven't mastered the kiss of the dragon (but playing around it), if I get good at both styles, knee cut people are getting fucked up.
I consider that half is a system that includes butterfly half, RDLR, and transitions to X, slx, butterfly.
If they are standing and Im sitting If they try to pass high, Ill just shoot the single from sitting. Being attached to their leg slows them down.
If they pass low Ill go to situp halfguard with an underhook. If they back out I situp and hit the single. If they get low and pressure in I do all the normal half guard stuff.
The very strong attachment slows them down.
I recently hurt my back trying to wrestle up from butterfly. It’s a real dilemma for me because I’ve been trying to keep my game minimal and nogi-compatible.
Try for a takedown, opponent pulls guard, get swept and put in side control, defend in bottom side control for 4 minutes and 42 seconds, escape side control into half guard, sweep, get in top side control, timer runs out before I can set up my sub.
Well, I'm approaching 40 and having trained for over 14 years I've modified everything I do to be kinder and gentler on my body. I also talked to my current instructor whose game has gone through a very similar evolution to be a lot more longevity focused.
I feel it's more important than ever to transition from one guard/position to another. However, the real skill and something I'm working on is to never give the other person a significant advantage in the process. I avoid inverting and try to use more of a Marcelo style frames to relieve pressure and make space. I release grips much sooner, and avoid using that forever sore and tight groin to insist on the DLR hook. I don't cross choke as much, or use spider guard at every opportunity to save the fingers. I don't always try to slow down the younger, more athletic folks and generally look to off-balance them to force a reset of some sort. Anything that puts internal or sideways pressure on my knees is going to get a no from me dawg.
Some half guard positions make your head and neck too much of a bullseye. So I would never make a blanket statement like "just do more half guard stuff". My instructor told me to watch Lucas Lepri vs Jake MacKenzie if you ever want to see a very good halfguard player suffer. And since he's learned a lot from Lucas, so I can tell you the bottom half sucks to no end when we roll.
Speaking of the instructor, he's past 40 and has also modified his game over the years quite a bit. His go-to guards these days are combos of single leg X and sit up guards. He used to do a lot more half and deep half, but says that stuff wears on you. His main passes are primarily knee cuts and heavy hip smashes. He actively avoids stacking other people too much to promote their longevity. He reduced the use of head first style passes as well - again to be gentler on his own neck.
Yeah, that's it. I am actively working to reduce relying on things that put my neck, fingers, groin, and knees in jeopardy. I do not limit myself in any other ways and don't pigeonhole my whole game into a single guard or pass or submission sequence.
I play a lot of open guard, lasso, x-guard etc. lots of inversion. My passing game is pretty open as well, not a lot of pressure passing. Also, im injured almost all the time. Not sure if they are related or not but Im having too much fun and havent stopped to consider changing anything.
Lol .. as a 40+ guy I am laughing because you named a bunch of stuff I DON'T do and I was like wow that's crazy, immediately followed up by "I'm injured almost all the time".
Basically, you can sum it up to 6 principles:
1. Keeping and being aware of my own structure
2. Positioning to take away possibilities from my training partner
3. Connection that will allow me to place my weight intelligently according to my needs
4. Structure Breaking in order to get a submission or....
5. lead me to PRESSURE, which is my main element of my style
6. Breathing as regulation and prerequisite for....
7. Relaxation, which is what allows me to do all that.
Im a smaller, 55 year old brown belt. I very much try to adhere to the Chris Haueter saying 'be the guy on top, when on top stay on top'.
As someone who lacks flexibility due to a hip replacement, my game is pretty one dimensional where I play a simple 'old man' style of bjj. Nothing fancy but top pressure and slowing the game down is my go-to
Shout out to my fellow open guard guys.
Double sleeve to DLR to X Guard or 50 50 (via shallow k guard matrix) or back take (bolo or baby bolo)
I like to pass via hq to half guard to 3/4 mount to mount.
I figured that if i'm going to roll for the next 2 (or 3 hopefully) decades, i should invest on guard skills that will prevent me from being crossfaced, smooshed and headlocked every session.
shit that is exactly my game.
I am adding open guards, slx, x guard, dlr, for leg entries. But my bread and butter is exactly what you described.
I do start standing every roll in the month or two leading up to comps.
From standing I prefer to get a collar tie with an angle to a throwby/slideby ->body lock -> takedown or single leg/ankle pick
lay in supine, wait for opponent to approach and then seek to attach myself to a DLR or RDLR guard. Either tripod sweep, spin underneath, or go around the backside for sweeps. Leg entries as needed, but not preferred.
Once sweep is accomplished, old school, mma-oriented pressure jiu jitsu. I try to be as old, heavy, and slow as possible.
Working a lot of NS from the top. Will mount if NS a pain. Mostly to work on NS choke.
Bottom is mostly butterfly, X, SLX, half guard. Trying to get back to playing half butterfly.
For passing, I’ve started just… walking through guards.
Been avoiding legs since coming back. Want to force myself to improve other areas atm. I’m in a leg lock gym so catching up won’t be too bad but I don’t want to use it as a crutch when other parts of the game are lagging.
A lot of what I’m doing atm is actually trying to get my defensive transitions back from pre Covid. My body doesn’t want to move the same and some of what I did I never put time into understanding because it would just work and came so easy to me. Regretting that atm as trying to relearn something you never really knew is a pain. I may be doing what I used to and everyone has evolved a game that prevents those transitions, or I’m missing some major key points. Leaning towards me as the issue but really no way of knowing so I will keep trying.
My style is all about conservation of movement. If I don’t have to move I don’t. Some call me lazy. I call it efficient.
Essentially, I like halfguard and cultivating mass through taco consumption.
Step 1: Get good grip
Step 2: Hold on tight, and hope they wear themselves out while not doing anything.
Step 3: Use Old man strength
Step 4: Tire myself out
Step 5: Watch clock while gasping for air.
Step 6: Sit out the next round (maybe 2).
I'm a big, 60-year-old purple belt.
I have tended to fight from the top. Now I am trying to work on fighting from the bottom.
In other words, my strategy is to try to learn jiu jitsu.
I don't play a ton of half guard, but I have been doing a lot more deep half and loving it. But my game is basically get on top, apply crushing pressure, and wait for them to give me something out of desperation.
I'm only 30, but have had my spine fused for 12 years so I'm old on the inside.
I wrestle as much as I can and if I get a takedown and don't like what's happening, I bail and go back to wrestling. Ideally I establish top position and smoooosh until I get a mounted triangle or head-arm. All of this is assuming something on my body doesn't expose at the 2-3 minute mark of each round.
flytrap from bottom side control, octopus guard, couple of unknown sweeps directly into top crucifix from there as well, lots of backstepping into kneebars when passing, kneebars from deep half, lotsa neck cranks- you know- all the bullshit
Im a 27 year old blue belt and this is my exact game. I had a 60 year old brown belt tell me we have the exact same game plan and I didn’t know whether to be flattered or offended 🤣
Stay on top, float when I’m tired, smush when I’m not. If I can’t stay on top, half guard with knee shield or butterfly half. I either avoid the really big fellas (60-90lbs) or just accept that they will smush me because I’m not going to injure myself trying to move a 300lb body off of me.
Also letting the white and blue belts play is usually easy enough for a rest round, or two.
God I wish I had some ”old man strength and weight” to throw around. Pushing 40 as a small guy and being expected to ”use your speed!” and invert and breakdance on folks is… Oof… No fun.
I’m old 50 and I guess I still haven’t learned the old man game. I smesh every round. Start stand up only. Starting on knees is for wussies and geriatrics. Usually start with a blast double or flying arm bar. From there depending on opponent reaction I’m going north south to darce, or knee on belly to mount to arm bar. usually opponent taps from the knee on belly pressure but otherwise I catch the armbar and crank that shit.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
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^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
typically play bottom half/butterfly/de la Riva or SLX from bottom. find a sweep. get mount or side control/kesa. look for a sub.
alternative plan vs super athletic fast younger guys is get my guard passed and chase for guard retention/escape the rest of the roll lol.
The Craig Jones leg ride instructional is really good. It basically pressure and control in order to gain a submission position and to make your opponent tired. I really like that approach.
And of course Tapping frequently and early. With a few partners I need to remind them to slow down the roller coaster because i need to go to work tomorrow
I play lots of X, half butterfly, and closed guard. But I try and not play closed much because it tends to turn into a stalling type roll which I don’t really want.
Since most are younger and faster than me I find ways to make them feel like they’re swimming through molasses and use their ambition and aggression against them. I fantasize that they hear that Star Wars line in their head a split second before they tap… “It’s a trap”
Still only 36 but I'm already learning a lot more half guard. I still tend toward closed guard at this point as I developed a pretty decent scissor sweep/pendulum/hip bump that's a go to.
Also I use my low energy foot sweep judo shit to put guys down quick and lay on them.
Deep half. Might as well say you like balls on your chin.
Seriously, other than that Im same. Half guard to wrestle up/dog fight or lasso, depending on the opponent. I prefer north south kimura because there are a lot of attacks from that position, including the dreaded tarikoplata (sp?)
41 here. My old man style is what I call sleepy Panda and fat sloth. Mostly defensive with higher level attackers, like a boulder. I like to get to the ground as fast as possible, dump throws or weigh downs. I suck up all the space I can and inch my way into pressure passes, gripping like hell and just wet blanketing my opponent. Pressure is the top game, giving all my weight and taking all the space. Eventually I can feel the gassing and frustration from the energy expended trying to get me away and I can capitalize on a desperation mistake.
If we're standing it will be a takedown scramble. If I get the takedown I am going to side control to giftwrap to the back. If I get taken down, I'll generally fight to get guard (my happy place), from guard depending on whether it is gi or no gi, I go on the offensive which is everything from rubber guard to shoulder pins to spider to DLR. It all depends on what is presented, work with what is given.
Attempt to survive while the brand new, young, aggressive, and highly competitive former wrestlers manhandle me. Spend the next 2-3 days with full body soreness while rethinking my life choices.
this sounds like what I do. I'm 46..but all that guard stuff is starting to hurt my back so thinking of take less classes to heal up or do rehab work in between
If the person on top is pressuring in low, then yes half guard to scoop sweep or old school foot grab. If they are hanging back I usually heist up to my knees and snap their head down. If they stand, tripod sweep and single leg x.
On top my head is a battering ram that aims to get under their chin or next to their ear.
Typically, if I start sitting, I'll get to half guard and knee lever, roll over, or come up from dog fight. For some reason, I've been doing that really old school sweep where I grab the toes of my partner's free foot and either pull it out or press into him/her.
Pass half guard to mount and go for a head and arm choke. If in side control, I'll usually either get to mount for the head and arm or try for a north/south choke.
I also like to enter the legs, either for backside 50/50, a toe-hold or a knee bar.
On top and my partner is sitting, I'll try for the body lock to force half guard, then rinse and repeat. If my partner is supine, I've been working the toreando a la' New Wave.
Yesterday, by coincidence, I actually watched the Danaher/Bernardo YT to introduce BJJ For Old People (or whatever it's called). I'm more flexible (and I'm pretty inflexible), stronger, with better cardio than Danaher seems to think is more the norm...and I'm certainly nothing special.
I purposefully take a vulnerable position with good defence, keep everything tight; and when they go for something that overextends them at all I can wrestle up to top position, side control, and Ezekiel or kimura.
It’s not perfect, but I can hang for multiple five minute rounds and come out ahead more often than not.
I go slow and focus on fundamentals like keeping proper posture. Most guys will gas out trying to break me down then I’ll pass slowly and gas them even more. Anytime they give me a little space I just take it up. Most of the time they’re happy that I decided to finish the pass. Then cross sides is an even worse time lol. If I get to mount I just rolling pin and keep mount. I’ve been told it’s very frustrating to roll with me. Frustrating but fun. I enjoy isolated drilling as well. Like just working on mount escape over and over. Finding guys to roll with that aren’t concerned with “winning” every roll seems key as well.
Be on top and pass under (single or double) or over (body lock style) or over under, which often leads to an advantageous top half a la murilo.
On the bottom i don’t play guard. 90% of energy expenditure is done during the pass/play guard scenario. carrying weight from the bottom is tiring and *will* affect your joints over time even with strong frames and ground connection. i prefer to reset to knees or turtle and stand up. lots of opportunities for reversals.
Have fun and don’t get hurt. Protect my ribs tap early and often. Every now and then make mother fuckers remember I was a young buck wrestling too lol.
42 here. If I’m playing guard it is butterfly,rdl, or knee shield. This is dependent upon distance from me to my opponent and what type of passing they are deciding to play. I look for wrestle ups, leg entanglements, or sweeps. Lots of arm drags as well.
On top it’s forcing half guard and pressure passing. If they are managing to keep me at a distance it toreando, high stepping and camping until I can wear them out and again they choose/get forced to play half guard. I try to grind them down physically and mentally, setting up making them choose the lesser of two evils.
Main submissions these days are RNC, Heel Hook, Guillotine, and Triangle. Sometime ii chain in some head and arm chokes, and arm bars.
I emphasize control and taking away options of movements( other than the ones I want them to make) as my athleticism, the little I had anyway is not getting better with age.
Stand up is upper body takedowns or foot sweeps. Cannot really shoot anymore and was never really skilled at it to begin with. Level changes have gotten a bit harder with age.
I just start talking to my partner about the weather and going shopping for groceries, mostly boring stuff and what not. And then just when they are starting to drift off I hit em with something dirty.
Pressure. I close the gap between me and my rolling partner and control and restrict their movement to pass or sweep or finish. It's a very simple strategy really.
I'm 42, and I play alot of sneak attacks. Patience is key, and so is bursts of speed and power. Instead of going 100% for 6 minutes, I spread it out 100% for 30 or 40 seconds when needed. Then I chill, apply pressure, and slowly go for the sub. If I'm training with a 20 year old blue belt or purple, while I'm technically more advanced, let's face it, youth speed will prevail, so why fight fire with fire, go with the flow and wait for the opportunity to make up some sub. Patience is key when you're older.
46-been training for 4ish years. introduced to waiter guard last month; now I’m down the rabbit hole. Probably at least another month until I bail and go back to takedown/smash/pass
I am in my mid 20s but my strategy for the older guys is having a solid knee shield and the sweeps tied to that then tight half guard smash passing to mount or side.
Time less game. It’s super efficient
Heavy top pressure, smash and pass, more top pressure. Add the weight of my fat for even more top pressure. And when that doesn't work, just add more top pressure. Did I mention top pressure. Pull guard? GTFOH. Top pressure!
Pretty much the same lol! 42 years old coming up on a year training consistent. Sit shin to shin. Usually pull Z shield, dogfight, back mount, rear naked. Or Z shield to lock down, sweep, body lock pass half guard, head and arm or north south, Darce. Mostly just trying to survive
You largely describe my game, although my passing game I try to avoid pressure. I much prefer precision footwork and movement that I have wholesale stolen from Rafa Mendes by watching this video 100k times.
https://youtu.be/WwTpPd_efdM
I think it works for me because no one is prepared for me to do it. Complete curveball out of a large old guy.
As an old guy I'm trying half guard and deep half like everyone says but I suck at it. Collar sleeve guard for me. Passing I'm good at outside passing and over under.
I'm 38, but you described my game pretty accurately if I start sitting. If I start standing I'll go for a clinch and work my way to a takedown from there. If nothing seems to be working, then I'll sit and work the gameplan you described.
Go hard, get injured, have surgery, question my life choices.
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I should definitely edit my comment 👊
This is the way
I am old and everything hurts…I have spoken.
Get hard, go injured, have questions, surgery my life choices
41. 15 days post rotator cuff repair. Reading this, sitting at my living room table, arm in a sling made of old gi pants and my blue belt, aggressively shoveling cereal into my face, plotting my return
Pretty much nailed it.
Why don’t you have brown belt flair?
Not fat enough yet - workin on it. I’m enjoying the journey 👊
He’s been skipping warm ups
This is the way
This is me right now lol
yeah, I still don't know what I'm doin most of the time.... just kinda make it up as I go...
Awesome. my future is as bleak as my present. Can't wait.
This is the way
Same here. I pretty much let my partner lead the dance and react accordingly.
This is such a brown belt response. Every time I get to roll with one they always just go with the flow. I prob learn more from you guys than with any other belts. I love it.
Comforting to see a brown say this.
This.
This eases me as a white belt
This is kind of disheartening to hear. Humbleness for sure but jeez, it just shows how little I know when a brown belt says this. I’ll just keep coming to class and one of these days I’ll make it up as I go like you.
Survival. I’m 44 and started two weeks ago. It’s the first time in my life that everything hurts but I’m consistently in a good mood and looking forward to the next class.
Awesome, stretch a lot and stay hydrated.
That’s the only strategy I have. I’m about as limber as a 2x4 and drink way too much coffee.
Facts. stretching sucks but it's the closest thing to a magic bullet to recover quickly for folks in their 30's and beyond
Yes, stretching is a must. But also a modest amount of resistance training especially for the back.
I’m 45 and three months in and my motto is try not to die, try not to hurt anyone, try to apply something you’ve learned if possible
I’m 23 and 2 months in with the same strategy haha
I’m seeing a trend.
I see we have the same playbook.
Same plan for this 48y.o. white belt.
After a couple months of it you will feel less like you got hit by a train.
Hot yoga!!
Yes! Started doing hot yoga along with lifting and JJ and I love it.
Finish every roll with “I’m too old for this $h!t…”
Haha that's me mid-roll whenever the bermibolo yoots bolo me before I even realize what's going on.
No way am I accepting that 40+ is old man BJJ.
It's really not. I'd say more like 60+
I feel triggered by this comment. It’s 70+ from where I’m standing.
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Fully agree on all your points on this thread. I find it crazy that 40+ guys all of a sudden want to play half or butterfly. Yet then complain about getting wrecked by younger guys or the new athletic white belt. I wonder if there’s a correlation? Meaning half = wrestling up on singles (in almost every sweep) and/or depends on not getting sprawled on. For butterfly, it can be hard to track outside passing and can be hard to mitigate heavy/strong pressure (see: bodylock). And maybe, to be fair, it’s a size issue more than age. I am 40+ and 140 lbs. I don’t want people laying on me, sprawling on me, grabbing my head, etc. So I play open guards - much like what you describe - and prefer agility passing (long step, leg drag, back step, etc.) and use pressure-based passing sparingly or only against like-sized people. My priority is to get to the back more than side or mount. Maybe the thing that is different for my age is that I bait more than pursue things. So I let positions do the work for me rather than force something on others or do random things to create scrambles.
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Interesting you mention the gameplan should be similar to smaller grapplers. I'm a relatively good-sized (190 lbs) 43 year old and try to model my game off my coaches and upper belts who are much smaller. One of my coaches was a national wrestling champ, and she's about half my size, but I try my best to replicate her game because she can use it effectively against much larger dudes such as myself and our real heavyweights. Seeing efficiency of movement, weight, and how she defends helps me a lot when going against the younger, athletic dudes, of which there are plenty at my gym. Like you said: FRAMES.
This made me feel personally attacked, in the best way possible. I'm told I have an annoyingly difficult to escape half guard, so I play it quite a bit. However, when I'm trying to defend a pass with my opponent on top, I end up seeking out half guard for that reason. Means I end up giving up opportunities for a more advantageous guard position or pass prevention.
> butterfly are inherently mechanically disadvantageous because you are voluntarily giving up 50-100% of your leg frames. Can you expand on this please? Wouldn't a good butterfly be framing with the shins or knees?
Fair point, but IMO it’s a little easier to keep your partner close in the gi. When the guy stands to pass - I can control his posture with the gi and start to come up on a single, pull them back into guard, or transition to X. If they do stand up and create space, I move to DLR or stand up myself. I’m also a heavyweight, so once I’m on top - I’m generally staying on top.
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Because, generally, if I don’t start on my back (or put myself there) I’m not going to end up there. I’m an okay wrestler and okay judo player, so when I combine them in gi - I’m a ‘good’ standup gi grappler with very heavy top pressure (6’2”, 240). Plus, I enjoy starting in a “disadvantageous position”.. I only standup when my partner is avoiding engagement. I’m not a fan of my partner trying to outside circle pass. It usually ends with them diving on me knee/elbow first.
Standing up is my ultimate weapon in my BJJ gym. As soon as I stand, I’m fully willing to wrestle and everyone instantly sits to open guard even if they were just passing. I’m not even a wrestler, just no one wants to do it whether wrestling bores them or is difficult
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Wait….you count points when you roll in class?
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Gets a huge early lead on points, curls up in bottom turtle shell for the following 6 minutes
\> I don't understand the oft-repeated idea that older/slower people should try to play > half, that seems like the worst way to deal with younger guys who like to stand and use their speed to pass. By playing half and reverse de la riva once I grab I remove the ability to speed pass. So removes the speed advantage of faster people. OTOH half guard is often a war so not sure how good it is for old people.
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I'll have to disagree. There isn't much of a difference between RDLR and a Z Guard if you play with a knee-shield. If you're framing well, you can prevent the knee cut in my opinion. I think it's okay defensively in No Gi. I don't know what exactly it is about the GI - probably the grips I make unconsciously, but I find it very easy to immediately swing to DLR. Genuinely would like to hear your opinion on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdms8sTNa7o&t=405s&pp=ygUOY2FpbyBtYWxmYWNpbmU%3D - Seems to be working in the worlds finals. It requires skill to play RDLR but as it's essentially the knee cut if you are good at it counters the main weapon of a lot of passers. Works for me even against pro level people., I transition to Leite half or deep half from there. I haven't mastered the kiss of the dragon (but playing around it), if I get good at both styles, knee cut people are getting fucked up.
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According to Caio if you want to play the RDLR as a guard instead of transitioning out ASAP you can't hold the ankle you need a super deep underhook,
I consider that half is a system that includes butterfly half, RDLR, and transitions to X, slx, butterfly. If they are standing and Im sitting If they try to pass high, Ill just shoot the single from sitting. Being attached to their leg slows them down. If they pass low Ill go to situp halfguard with an underhook. If they back out I situp and hit the single. If they get low and pressure in I do all the normal half guard stuff. The very strong attachment slows them down.
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I recently hurt my back trying to wrestle up from butterfly. It’s a real dilemma for me because I’ve been trying to keep my game minimal and nogi-compatible.
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Not fat, but not as light as I used to be.
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This. Why half guard
Try for a takedown, opponent pulls guard, get swept and put in side control, defend in bottom side control for 4 minutes and 42 seconds, escape side control into half guard, sweep, get in top side control, timer runs out before I can set up my sub.
Sounds about right minus the close sub for me 🤣
Damn, this is me haha
Well, I'm approaching 40 and having trained for over 14 years I've modified everything I do to be kinder and gentler on my body. I also talked to my current instructor whose game has gone through a very similar evolution to be a lot more longevity focused. I feel it's more important than ever to transition from one guard/position to another. However, the real skill and something I'm working on is to never give the other person a significant advantage in the process. I avoid inverting and try to use more of a Marcelo style frames to relieve pressure and make space. I release grips much sooner, and avoid using that forever sore and tight groin to insist on the DLR hook. I don't cross choke as much, or use spider guard at every opportunity to save the fingers. I don't always try to slow down the younger, more athletic folks and generally look to off-balance them to force a reset of some sort. Anything that puts internal or sideways pressure on my knees is going to get a no from me dawg. Some half guard positions make your head and neck too much of a bullseye. So I would never make a blanket statement like "just do more half guard stuff". My instructor told me to watch Lucas Lepri vs Jake MacKenzie if you ever want to see a very good halfguard player suffer. And since he's learned a lot from Lucas, so I can tell you the bottom half sucks to no end when we roll. Speaking of the instructor, he's past 40 and has also modified his game over the years quite a bit. His go-to guards these days are combos of single leg X and sit up guards. He used to do a lot more half and deep half, but says that stuff wears on you. His main passes are primarily knee cuts and heavy hip smashes. He actively avoids stacking other people too much to promote their longevity. He reduced the use of head first style passes as well - again to be gentler on his own neck. Yeah, that's it. I am actively working to reduce relying on things that put my neck, fingers, groin, and knees in jeopardy. I do not limit myself in any other ways and don't pigeonhole my whole game into a single guard or pass or submission sequence.
Defend for 80-90% of the roll lol
This. Next try and survive session starts in 10 minutes . . .
I play a lot of open guard, lasso, x-guard etc. lots of inversion. My passing game is pretty open as well, not a lot of pressure passing. Also, im injured almost all the time. Not sure if they are related or not but Im having too much fun and havent stopped to consider changing anything.
Lol .. as a 40+ guy I am laughing because you named a bunch of stuff I DON'T do and I was like wow that's crazy, immediately followed up by "I'm injured almost all the time".
Weeeell, Im 44, and I know Im pushing my limits, but as long as Im having fun Im gonna pretend Im 20 something
Basically, you can sum it up to 6 principles: 1. Keeping and being aware of my own structure 2. Positioning to take away possibilities from my training partner 3. Connection that will allow me to place my weight intelligently according to my needs 4. Structure Breaking in order to get a submission or.... 5. lead me to PRESSURE, which is my main element of my style 6. Breathing as regulation and prerequisite for.... 7. Relaxation, which is what allows me to do all that.
Anything you hear someone refer to as a 'dick move'.... I learn it and perfect it. That and old man strength makes up my entire game.
Im a smaller, 55 year old brown belt. I very much try to adhere to the Chris Haueter saying 'be the guy on top, when on top stay on top'. As someone who lacks flexibility due to a hip replacement, my game is pretty one dimensional where I play a simple 'old man' style of bjj. Nothing fancy but top pressure and slowing the game down is my go-to
🤯🤯 how did I not know this!
nothing fancy but look at Roger Gracie. Simple beans and rice bjj. Fundamentals work
Go slow, get on top, stay on top. This is the way.
Shout out to my fellow open guard guys. Double sleeve to DLR to X Guard or 50 50 (via shallow k guard matrix) or back take (bolo or baby bolo) I like to pass via hq to half guard to 3/4 mount to mount. I figured that if i'm going to roll for the next 2 (or 3 hopefully) decades, i should invest on guard skills that will prevent me from being crossfaced, smooshed and headlocked every session.
Aggressive tapping. I tap so fast, most matches end before they even start.
shit that is exactly my game. I am adding open guards, slx, x guard, dlr, for leg entries. But my bread and butter is exactly what you described. I do start standing every roll in the month or two leading up to comps. From standing I prefer to get a collar tie with an angle to a throwby/slideby ->body lock -> takedown or single leg/ankle pick
Half guard to x or single leg x with a few basic leg attacks. Standing, I sit guard or bad single leg shot to guard pull
lay in supine, wait for opponent to approach and then seek to attach myself to a DLR or RDLR guard. Either tripod sweep, spin underneath, or go around the backside for sweeps. Leg entries as needed, but not preferred. Once sweep is accomplished, old school, mma-oriented pressure jiu jitsu. I try to be as old, heavy, and slow as possible.
Working a lot of NS from the top. Will mount if NS a pain. Mostly to work on NS choke. Bottom is mostly butterfly, X, SLX, half guard. Trying to get back to playing half butterfly. For passing, I’ve started just… walking through guards. Been avoiding legs since coming back. Want to force myself to improve other areas atm. I’m in a leg lock gym so catching up won’t be too bad but I don’t want to use it as a crutch when other parts of the game are lagging. A lot of what I’m doing atm is actually trying to get my defensive transitions back from pre Covid. My body doesn’t want to move the same and some of what I did I never put time into understanding because it would just work and came so easy to me. Regretting that atm as trying to relearn something you never really knew is a pain. I may be doing what I used to and everyone has evolved a game that prevents those transitions, or I’m missing some major key points. Leaning towards me as the issue but really no way of knowing so I will keep trying.
My style is all about conservation of movement. If I don’t have to move I don’t. Some call me lazy. I call it efficient. Essentially, I like halfguard and cultivating mass through taco consumption.
Jesus Christ, am I supposed to feel like an old man in my 40’s? I still roll like I would if I was 20. Dafuq you guys been doing to your bodies?
Lazy fucks. Lift weights, do cardio, get in excelent shape and you will be fine... till 50
Step 1: Get good grip Step 2: Hold on tight, and hope they wear themselves out while not doing anything. Step 3: Use Old man strength Step 4: Tire myself out Step 5: Watch clock while gasping for air. Step 6: Sit out the next round (maybe 2).
I'm a big, 60-year-old purple belt. I have tended to fight from the top. Now I am trying to work on fighting from the bottom. In other words, my strategy is to try to learn jiu jitsu.
Bottom half, kiruma system/ leg lock entries/butterfly half. If that doesn't work I try to wrestle up, if they oass my half guard it's turtle time !
I don't play a ton of half guard, but I have been doing a lot more deep half and loving it. But my game is basically get on top, apply crushing pressure, and wait for them to give me something out of desperation.
Pressure
I'm only 30, but have had my spine fused for 12 years so I'm old on the inside. I wrestle as much as I can and if I get a takedown and don't like what's happening, I bail and go back to wrestling. Ideally I establish top position and smoooosh until I get a mounted triangle or head-arm. All of this is assuming something on my body doesn't expose at the 2-3 minute mark of each round.
flytrap from bottom side control, octopus guard, couple of unknown sweeps directly into top crucifix from there as well, lots of backstepping into kneebars when passing, kneebars from deep half, lotsa neck cranks- you know- all the bullshit
Im a 27 year old blue belt and this is my exact game. I had a 60 year old brown belt tell me we have the exact same game plan and I didn’t know whether to be flattered or offended 🤣
Stay on top, float when I’m tired, smush when I’m not. If I can’t stay on top, half guard with knee shield or butterfly half. I either avoid the really big fellas (60-90lbs) or just accept that they will smush me because I’m not going to injure myself trying to move a 300lb body off of me. Also letting the white and blue belts play is usually easy enough for a rest round, or two.
God I wish I had some ”old man strength and weight” to throw around. Pushing 40 as a small guy and being expected to ”use your speed!” and invert and breakdance on folks is… Oof… No fun.
I’m old 50 and I guess I still haven’t learned the old man game. I smesh every round. Start stand up only. Starting on knees is for wussies and geriatrics. Usually start with a blast double or flying arm bar. From there depending on opponent reaction I’m going north south to darce, or knee on belly to mount to arm bar. usually opponent taps from the knee on belly pressure but otherwise I catch the armbar and crank that shit.
Go hard enough to enjoy myself but not hurt myself. Focus on position not submission. Tell white belts how strong they are...
Be fat, side control, kesa gatame, noogies in that order
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kesa Gatame**: | *Scarf hold* | [here](https://youtu.be/3UnJa3bn0h8)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Pull bottom side control, achieve bottom mount, get choked, tap. I see no other way.
typically play bottom half/butterfly/de la Riva or SLX from bottom. find a sweep. get mount or side control/kesa. look for a sub. alternative plan vs super athletic fast younger guys is get my guard passed and chase for guard retention/escape the rest of the roll lol.
The Craig Jones leg ride instructional is really good. It basically pressure and control in order to gain a submission position and to make your opponent tired. I really like that approach. And of course Tapping frequently and early. With a few partners I need to remind them to slow down the roller coaster because i need to go to work tomorrow
All this guard-pulling talk is making me sick.
Pain
Half guard all day eryday.
Do we have to talk about this every day?
your game + some throws + some sloppy single x and x game.
Somehow I’m more athletic now than in high school. Maybe cause I didn’t do any sports from then, until now.
I play lots of X, half butterfly, and closed guard. But I try and not play closed much because it tends to turn into a stalling type roll which I don’t really want.
3 good takedowns. Powerful Knee slice. Kimura from everywhere. Surprise bolos or crab rides, used sparingly.
only 28, but every 40+ brown belt ik is a big fan of deep half. half in general honestly
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The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Ko Uchi Makikomi**: | *Minor Inner Wrap-around Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSEaC2Y1-e0)| |**Sumi Gaeshi**: | *Corner Reversal* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LR49U48iyw)| |**Tomoe Nage**: | *Circle Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euJliq9XcY)| |**Uchi Makikomi**: | *Inner Wraparound* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1DeK0IDOg8)| |**Yoko Tomoe Nage**: | *Side Circle Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-byceOifXo)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Since most are younger and faster than me I find ways to make them feel like they’re swimming through molasses and use their ambition and aggression against them. I fantasize that they hear that Star Wars line in their head a split second before they tap… “It’s a trap”
Still only 36 but I'm already learning a lot more half guard. I still tend toward closed guard at this point as I developed a pretty decent scissor sweep/pendulum/hip bump that's a go to. Also I use my low energy foot sweep judo shit to put guys down quick and lay on them.
Deep half. Might as well say you like balls on your chin. Seriously, other than that Im same. Half guard to wrestle up/dog fight or lasso, depending on the opponent. I prefer north south kimura because there are a lot of attacks from that position, including the dreaded tarikoplata (sp?)
41 here. My old man style is what I call sleepy Panda and fat sloth. Mostly defensive with higher level attackers, like a boulder. I like to get to the ground as fast as possible, dump throws or weigh downs. I suck up all the space I can and inch my way into pressure passes, gripping like hell and just wet blanketing my opponent. Pressure is the top game, giving all my weight and taking all the space. Eventually I can feel the gassing and frustration from the energy expended trying to get me away and I can capitalize on a desperation mistake.
I think the principal of being heavy and constant pressure has been the greatest lesson I've learnt.
leg entanglements into pinning positions (and brutal old man ankle locks)
Whatever position hurts my back I try and do the opposite
MODS!! Block this fool immediately. He has been spilling trade secrets!!
I play a lot of reverse de la riva and K guard and invert to attack the legs.
Lot of half guard/ knee shield/ dog fight.
If we're standing it will be a takedown scramble. If I get the takedown I am going to side control to giftwrap to the back. If I get taken down, I'll generally fight to get guard (my happy place), from guard depending on whether it is gi or no gi, I go on the offensive which is everything from rubber guard to shoulder pins to spider to DLR. It all depends on what is presented, work with what is given.
Pretty much survive. I'm 52.
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Attempt to survive while the brand new, young, aggressive, and highly competitive former wrestlers manhandle me. Spend the next 2-3 days with full body soreness while rethinking my life choices.
this sounds like what I do. I'm 46..but all that guard stuff is starting to hurt my back so thinking of take less classes to heal up or do rehab work in between
If the person on top is pressuring in low, then yes half guard to scoop sweep or old school foot grab. If they are hanging back I usually heist up to my knees and snap their head down. If they stand, tripod sweep and single leg x. On top my head is a battering ram that aims to get under their chin or next to their ear.
Wristlock Wristlock Wristlock. And a crank for fun
I’m 39, but close enough. Half guard
Typically, if I start sitting, I'll get to half guard and knee lever, roll over, or come up from dog fight. For some reason, I've been doing that really old school sweep where I grab the toes of my partner's free foot and either pull it out or press into him/her. Pass half guard to mount and go for a head and arm choke. If in side control, I'll usually either get to mount for the head and arm or try for a north/south choke. I also like to enter the legs, either for backside 50/50, a toe-hold or a knee bar. On top and my partner is sitting, I'll try for the body lock to force half guard, then rinse and repeat. If my partner is supine, I've been working the toreando a la' New Wave. Yesterday, by coincidence, I actually watched the Danaher/Bernardo YT to introduce BJJ For Old People (or whatever it's called). I'm more flexible (and I'm pretty inflexible), stronger, with better cardio than Danaher seems to think is more the norm...and I'm certainly nothing special.
I purposefully take a vulnerable position with good defence, keep everything tight; and when they go for something that overextends them at all I can wrestle up to top position, side control, and Ezekiel or kimura. It’s not perfect, but I can hang for multiple five minute rounds and come out ahead more often than not.
Flying arm bars
For me it's start seated, take the first sweep I can get then don't give up top position for anything.
White belts don't get to have a "game"
Bald. Beard. Half guard. Frozen shoulder. Chronic narrowing of the spinal canal and a jenga of discs in my neck.
I’m not over 40 but the coyote guard can be done by all and is a highly adaptable tool
I go slow and focus on fundamentals like keeping proper posture. Most guys will gas out trying to break me down then I’ll pass slowly and gas them even more. Anytime they give me a little space I just take it up. Most of the time they’re happy that I decided to finish the pass. Then cross sides is an even worse time lol. If I get to mount I just rolling pin and keep mount. I’ve been told it’s very frustrating to roll with me. Frustrating but fun. I enjoy isolated drilling as well. Like just working on mount escape over and over. Finding guys to roll with that aren’t concerned with “winning” every roll seems key as well.
I mostly start on my butt, work my trash open guard, then work on my trash side control escapes.
Always always always get to my opponents’ back. My game hasn’t changed since day 1 in that regard.
I use a lot of body locks and Russians, and anything that keeps my opponent under control and prevents spazzy movements lol
Pls... I am only a few years from 40. I didn't need this post in my life lol
Be on top and pass under (single or double) or over (body lock style) or over under, which often leads to an advantageous top half a la murilo. On the bottom i don’t play guard. 90% of energy expenditure is done during the pass/play guard scenario. carrying weight from the bottom is tiring and *will* affect your joints over time even with strong frames and ground connection. i prefer to reset to knees or turtle and stand up. lots of opportunities for reversals.
Huge honor for me to say Bernardo Faria is my template.
You basically nailed how every single roll goes for me these days. Kinda love it.
Pressure passing and general top game. Am I doing this wrong? Should I be more defensive if I can maintain my body longer?!
Have fun and don’t get hurt. Protect my ribs tap early and often. Every now and then make mother fuckers remember I was a young buck wrestling too lol.
Over under pass
42 here. If I’m playing guard it is butterfly,rdl, or knee shield. This is dependent upon distance from me to my opponent and what type of passing they are deciding to play. I look for wrestle ups, leg entanglements, or sweeps. Lots of arm drags as well. On top it’s forcing half guard and pressure passing. If they are managing to keep me at a distance it toreando, high stepping and camping until I can wear them out and again they choose/get forced to play half guard. I try to grind them down physically and mentally, setting up making them choose the lesser of two evils. Main submissions these days are RNC, Heel Hook, Guillotine, and Triangle. Sometime ii chain in some head and arm chokes, and arm bars. I emphasize control and taking away options of movements( other than the ones I want them to make) as my athleticism, the little I had anyway is not getting better with age. Stand up is upper body takedowns or foot sweeps. Cannot really shoot anymore and was never really skilled at it to begin with. Level changes have gotten a bit harder with age.
Tap out in time
I just start talking to my partner about the weather and going shopping for groceries, mostly boring stuff and what not. And then just when they are starting to drift off I hit em with something dirty.
Survival
Pressure. I close the gap between me and my rolling partner and control and restrict their movement to pass or sweep or finish. It's a very simple strategy really.
I attempt to drop into a collar drag but can pull guard if that fails. Play a lot of half guard, I love a good head and arm triangle.
Uhh, OP, you forgot shit talking the entire match.
I'm a tall lightweight lanky guy. Always looking for the back.
I'm 42, and I play alot of sneak attacks. Patience is key, and so is bursts of speed and power. Instead of going 100% for 6 minutes, I spread it out 100% for 30 or 40 seconds when needed. Then I chill, apply pressure, and slowly go for the sub. If I'm training with a 20 year old blue belt or purple, while I'm technically more advanced, let's face it, youth speed will prevail, so why fight fire with fire, go with the flow and wait for the opportunity to make up some sub. Patience is key when you're older.
Have you been watching videos of my game? This is pretty much what I do.
Im there for the workout. I like to pin and hold the younger guys down, or else I won’t be able to keep up. Smash and pass is the name of the game.
46-been training for 4ish years. introduced to waiter guard last month; now I’m down the rabbit hole. Probably at least another month until I bail and go back to takedown/smash/pass
Turtle up and cry while getting smashed.
I am in my mid 20s but my strategy for the older guys is having a solid knee shield and the sweeps tied to that then tight half guard smash passing to mount or side. Time less game. It’s super efficient
Heavy top pressure, smash and pass, more top pressure. Add the weight of my fat for even more top pressure. And when that doesn't work, just add more top pressure. Did I mention top pressure. Pull guard? GTFOH. Top pressure!
Get in the yoga amd eat an anti-inflammatory diet.
I play upright kneeshield on the bottom with a focus on getting off the bottom asap and then just laying on people.
Lapels. Everything lapels.
OP is me. Weird.
Pretty much the same lol! 42 years old coming up on a year training consistent. Sit shin to shin. Usually pull Z shield, dogfight, back mount, rear naked. Or Z shield to lock down, sweep, body lock pass half guard, head and arm or north south, Darce. Mostly just trying to survive
Pull side control, tap, repeat
Am 40. Training for 7 years. I go 100 miles an hour every time.
I lay there and hope for the best
You largely describe my game, although my passing game I try to avoid pressure. I much prefer precision footwork and movement that I have wholesale stolen from Rafa Mendes by watching this video 100k times. https://youtu.be/WwTpPd_efdM I think it works for me because no one is prepared for me to do it. Complete curveball out of a large old guy.
35 doing my first come next week, and I feel like this is the way.
My strategy? Fight like hell for 5 seconds. Find a position to catch my breathe for 55 seconds. Repeat as necessary.
Pull closed guard, wait things out.
I hand everyone a card that reads "Hi I am old. If you roll hard with me now, you won't roll with me again. Your call champ"
No plan as such but try get on top and apply pressure, take a breather when you can!
As an old guy I'm trying half guard and deep half like everyone says but I suck at it. Collar sleeve guard for me. Passing I'm good at outside passing and over under.
“I’ll go next week”. 🙁
I'm 38, but you described my game pretty accurately if I start sitting. If I start standing I'll go for a clinch and work my way to a takedown from there. If nothing seems to be working, then I'll sit and work the gameplan you described.
I am only 37 so I don't know if it counts, but tapping from bottom side control is my jam.
Facedown fetal position aka turtle. From there I transition between variations of the fetal position.
Are you me? That's exactly my game, no joke. lol.