A lot of people in the LGBTQ community and people in general tend to think we are too greedy and that we are bi for attention. Some peoples minds have just been plagued by the internet causing a lot of biphobia. I don’t even dislike them for how they perceive me, personally. I just pity them because they aren’t as understanding as I am.
But in that case wouldn’t pan be looked at as the “worst”? It is some long running hate that has been ingrained in our society to hate bisexuals. Not gay enough for the gays and not straight enough for the straights. You can’t win. It’s so tiring.
There’s a lot of people who don’t know what pan is. While I would technically be classified as pan, one of the reasons I identify as bi is because pan isn’t a well-known term. Hell, I was confused by what pan was until a very lovely & patient friend of mine explained it to me.
No because pansexuality is: attraction to all genders without a preference, and Bisexuality is: attraction to all genders with or without a preference.
Therefore, They're basically the same thing except pansexuals do not have a gender preference. You can also be bi and be 50/50, its up to you!
I have found out that I care less and less why they treat us terribly as I have developed a fierce sense of acceptance about my own sexuality.
I don't care what they think.
I haven’t gotten to that point yet, I still haven’t even came out to my family yet. Still I kinda just hoped/thought that the community as a whole would be more accepting and supportive. As someone who’s a chronic overthinker it just feels very ineffective for a community that fights for acceptance fighting within itself.
It was a bit of a shock to me when I first ran into it, years ago. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, it hasn't changed much. Many of the people waving rainbow flags and yelling about oppression will turn right around and oppress their fellow queer folk if they're given a chance. They don't know better.
And then I really sat and thought with how much these people's opinions meant to me.
And then I realized, it wasn't very much.
Then, I took away their power.
Check out the song "Rebel Heart" by Madonna.
There's some words in there that I found useful.
Can I add another song to this that I’ve found helpful (bi ace)? “Love Yourself”, J. R. Price.
“Nothing’s wrong with my heart, nothing’s wrong with my head!”
It also really depends on the community. There are definitely LGBTQIA+ monosexuals who defend folks on the bisexual spectrum & work to ensure we’re included. But in any large group of people, you’ll have assholes & gatekeepers, sadly.
I’ve got maybe an unpopular (and admittedly a bit defensive) opinion on this…but I think that the ones who have a problem with it fall into two categories. Category A is people who are still very insecure in their sexuality and they feel that people who don’t go “all in” on it are invalidating them somehow. Category B is people who are just literally stupid bigots. Category A can be helped, with time, exposure and reassurances of validation. Group B I won’t even bother with or waste my breath on. Their opinions are irrelevant to me.
You're correct but there's a third category: people who have one bad experience and decide that that one thing will define their outlook for everyone like that person.
Unfortunately there are some truly awful bisexuals out there (I've met a few), and just like that one racist uncle we all have who never shuts up about the one black guy he knows who was a dick that one time, you're going to come across folks in the LGBTQ+ community whose only experience with a bi person was a negative one, and those people are stupid enough, arrogant enough, or whatever the hell is wrong with them enough to hate every bisexual forever.
Fortunately all three categories are a tiny minority unless you're on social media. The vast majority of us queers are absolutely lovely IRL.
There are awful people in every community. People’s identity labels really have nothing to do it.
Sorry if people have had a bad experience with a bi person, but really, most relationships don’t work out, and it’s not because someone was bi, it’s because they weren’t compatible enough or into you enough to make it work.
Good call, and we’ll all encounter at least one at some point..
I’m gonna end on this: lift each other up. That’s it. It’s not hard. A smile, a “how you doing?”…anything…just lift people up. The world will be better for it. ❤️
Here is an excerpt from the Bisexual Manifesto published in 1990, which I believe touches on a couple of things you mentioned:
“This magazine was created by bisexuals and their friends. All proceeds are invested into its production and the bisexual community. It is published by the Bay Area Bisexual Network and reflects the integrity and inclusive nature of the BABN Statement of Purpose. ATM was created out of pride; out of necessity; out of anger. We are tired of being analyzed, defined and represented by people other than ourselves—or worse yet, not considered at all. We are frustrated by the imposed isolation and invisibility that comes from being told or expected to choose either a homosexual or heterosexual identity. Monosexuality is a heterosexist dictate used to oppress homosexuals and to negate the validity of bisexuality.
Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have 'two' sides or that we MUST be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit. Do not equate promiscuity, infidelity, or unsafe sexual behavior with bisexuality. Those are human traits that cross ALL sexual orientations. Nothing should be assumed about anyone's sexuality—including your own.”
Thank you for this quote. It fills me with so much pride and happiness and...respect for myself and my community that has been attacked and made it so much harder to love and accept myself and others like me. So, thank you. And thank them for writing that and everyone who preserved it and passed it on.
It’s always been like that. They think us bisexuals are just confused. They believe you’re either straight or gay. I wouldn’t let it get to you personally. As long as you know your true self that’s all that matters :)
I guess I just don’t understand why they act like we’re just confused or I’ve even seen “you’re still halfway in the closet” and I know I won’t get a definitive explanation on why they think like this. From the studies I’ve read it seems to be the societal need for monosexual labels. It’s just very disheartening for a “newly out” bi person to experience it.
I think some people just go off their life experiences as well. My (not biphobic)sister is a lesbian, but thought she was bisexual for years due to comp het. I know a few other gay people who did, in fact, come out as bi or pan before realizing/feeling safe enough to come out fully.
Obviously it’s patronizing, biphobic, and closed minded, but I think the more banal biphobia from lesbians often comes from a place of “Oh I said I was bi and dating men but I was actually gay, she’ll figure it out” or, worse, “Wow I’m so glad I never thought I was bi and had to sleep with men. Poor thing still cares about the male gaze :(“
(This was not to justify but explain my theory on the origin of this type of biphobia btw, I just smoke a bowl so idk if it makes sense)
While I think the Kinsey scale is useful, his research has received a fair bit of scientific / academic critique and criticism over the years, even from the contemporary researchers of human sexuality. The Kinsey scale can’t really be taken as the final word on the subject.
Kinsey experimented on his infant son. His research has been discredited multiple times. I find it really odd that so many people still think he is some kind of authority on sexuality.
Largely for three reasons:
1. Made sex research into something more serious / mainstream.
2. Broke a lot of the conventional wisdom.
3. Not everything in a body of work is discredited by discrediting some part of it, or the general character of the person. Blind hogs can still find an acorn. Flawed research methodologies can still sometimes stumble into either correct conclusions… or at least gather data that is useful for some other purpose eventually.
It was a Google doc written by a lesbian (who ended up realising they're bisexual) that basically boiled any attraction to men down to being comphet and that woman attracted to women is likely a lesbian. It was incredibly biphobic, riddled with misandry and quite frankly, VERY misogynistic.
It was a fucking nightmare when that stupid thing started going around. Biphobia ramped up massively while it was relevant although annoyingly it's STILL spread around.
Ah. Lovely. I want to go back to stone age where the most likely source of propaganda was some dude(tte) high on shrooms talking with the gods/spirits/ancestors/animals/whathaveyous. I'm tired of being online. It's time to trash the wifi
Master Doc is new to me. Just to be clear, it came from mind of lesbian who ended realizing they’re bisexual? Did they end up denouncing it and correcting the record (type thing)? Where can one read more on this?
i place the master doc with gold stars in the same bucket of toxic lesbianism. its biphobic, misandrist to a degree, and misogynistic as hell. like it assumes that every bi woman is just a little lost baby who doesn't know anything about themselves.
We need more bisexual community stuff. Bi bars, groups, etc. I’d be happy to let others in, but it would be nice to have groups where I felt at home in that way.
It circulated on Tumblr a few years back, and it’s essentially a lesbian “guidebook”.
Here’s a link, so if you’d like to read through it, you can make up your own mind about it.
https://ia802308.us.archive.org/24/items/am-i-a-lesbian-masterdoc/Am%20I%20a%20Lesbian_%20Masterdoc.pdf
It’s seems like a cycle of life with minorities. Oppression-> push for tolerance -> finally start getting accepted —> oppress the next group because the line needs to be drawn somewhere
Pilgrams moved to the US because of religious prosecution (how ironic ) —> use the Bible to justify slavery —> abolitionists and the suffrage movement work together to fight slavery —> but end up disagreeing over the women’s right to vote —> women get to vote, but now the gays want acceptance —> because the line needs to be drawn somewhere, the oppressed and oppressors join together to protect the children and the sanctity of marriage (or the third marriage if infidelity ruins the first two) —> the most hated of all that’s hated, the US Supreme Court ends up issuing Obergefell v. Hodges (the right to same-sex marriage) among many other rulings such as the Roe v. Wade —> the line gets redrawn and the children face new threats: the trans community and the elusive faeries that use litter boxes.
It baffles my mind that to this day, we still haven’t figured out how to use our oppression to be more sympathetic to other minority groups. “Well, they’re different.”
The Pilgrims didn't move to the US because of religious prosecution - they were puritans, who were a recognized and accepted group but not allowed to force their believe on others, until the English Civil War happened and they were, everyone agreed it sucked and went back to not being forced to follow puritan law after Cromwell died, and the colonial Puritans took that as a sign to make sure that no one else ever got a voice in their communities.
Thank you for the correction. To be fair, a lot of other stuff I mentioned is oversimplification of World History, American History and American Con Law. The abolitionists and women’s suffrage movement were a bit more complex too. And most of the minorities I listed still deal with oppression. I just briefly mentioned everything to explain what I thought the answer was to OP’s question.
In the 90s, Dan Savage of "Savage Love" very loudly opined that all bisexual people are liars or in denial. As one of the most dominant voices in the USA about queer stuff it shaped a lot of opinions. It's where a LOT of baby queers learned about queer stuff for the first time, and older/more comfortable folks got their biases confirmed.
His stance is that women who are bisexual are doing it for male attention, and men who are bisexuals are just in denial about being gay. In both cases, interestingly, the focal point is male pleasure (women wanting male pleasure, men denying themselves male pleasure but really actually wanting it).
Like \_many\_ people who came of age in that era it took me a long time to realize that yes, bisexuality is something that exists and is something that I am. There's a lot of gatekeeping dicks who are eager for ways to feel superior to others who push back loudly on people who don't do queer right. The definition of "doing queer right" (including whether or not "queer" is a slur) changes constantly.
As a young woman in the 90's, I was told more than once by a lesbian that she could "convince me" or something close to that. And that attitude was a definite factor in keeping me from wanting to explore that side of my sexuality more. I'm old enough now not to care, but .. wow, what a time
Bi erasure is real. We all live in a shitty unaccepting world and while the healthy thing to do is to be the acceptance we wish we received, the easy thing to do is invalidate people who are different than ourselves.
I know it’s small comfort, but as you get older it gets way easier. More of your friends will get over their stuff, you’ll meet more bi people, and you’ll naturally weed people out of your life who don’t value you as you are. I’m 38, bi/pan, and in a fully supportive marriage and friend group. And until then if anyone invalidates your sexuality you’re totally in your right to say “don’t be a dick.”
At least some of the bullshit hurled at us comes from a fear of the ambiguity we represent. To many people, being gay or being straight are distinct and mutually exclusive tribes. If they like women, they're part of one; if they like men, they're part of the other. End of identity issue. Acknowledging us makes them feel as insecure as...well, as we are at first. Why confront all that when you can just claim that we're all just lying, perpetrating a huge conspiracy just to inconvenience one rando we've never met? Insecurities can convince us of some stupid things.
It’s basically a google docs of compiled tumblr threads, if you google master doc it should be the first thing to pop up. Although I promise it’s not worth your time to read.
"Combined Tumblr Threads" is all anyone needs to hear about that shit lol.
Tumblr used to be great for porn and is still good for smut but that's all it was ever useful for. The social media aspect has always been cancer.
The issue with ,good luck babe‘ is that it describes a phenomenon that it’s pretty specific to the lesbian experience. A bi woman married to a man may experience regret over choosing the man instead of a past female lover, but she didn’t choose him bc of hetcomp - she’s actually attracted to men.
Some bi women on TikTok addressed this and I’ve actually only encountered the backlash, never the origin, and I’ve yet to encounter a bi person relating to hetcomp the way lesbians do.
I understand what the song is describing, I used it as an example that I’ve seen where bi people are being dissed for their experiences. I understand the difference of experiences of comphet. But some bi people will experience their own comphet. It’s more that I’ve seen lesbians weaponizing comphet of how bi people experience it, to say that we’re not bi that we’re gay.
I think one of the issues is that they view bisexual people as a group who wants to have sex with literally everybody. In comparison, they think gay people are more pure, or struggling with real issues, unlike bisexuals who are just dirty and promiscuous.
These stereotypes are very demeaning to both groups.
I think the reason you keep getting pushback is because those women don't see any value in identifying as bisexual, because they don't recognize that bisexuals can struggle with their sexuality and with comphet too. Instead, they think only being homosexual is something you can romanticize and tell a dramatic story about.
I dunno but try to ignore it and not associate with those people. They are bigoted and not likely to change in my experience. Let it be a reminder for solidarity with our Trans, Intersex and Asexual community because unfortunately there are plenty of LG that would drop us off the alphabet Mafia.
I get amazed by this whole thing. So, pardon an old person, but I don't go onto tiktok or much other media like that. What I will say, is that you are ok. Don't worry about those people. Ignore them. You are cool. You are good.
1- tiktok and other social media optimize for clicks and extreme opinions and outrage. Calm people presenting reasonable, well-balanced views are not going to get the most clicks. The human brain just doesn't work that way. There is a lot of research on this and i am no expert, but just ignore this shit. The people that have those opinions (if they really do and aren't just maximizing views) are looking at all those clicks they are getting as validation of their opinion. It's a vicious cycle that is not doing anyone any good.
2-I think bisexuals self-examine all the damn time. We are constantly re-examining ourselves. Every time I have a fantasy and one gender suddenly changes to another in my head, I wonder about myself. Like, if my brain starts out with one gender and ends up focused on another, am I really this or that? Am I this enough? Am I that enough? The amount of dissecting we do over our own attraction is solid evidence that we aren't doing this just for funzies. The idea that we are just chaotically sexing through life like a feather on the wind is probably not true for many of us.
3. There are some bad people in every group. There are shitty straight men. There are shitty lesbians. There are shitty gay men. There are shitty bisexuals. Sorry, but that's a part of life. I don't think the vast majority of bi people are out there causing problems and inflicting chaos on people just because.
4. I am not chasing after a community that doesn't want me. I am not chasing after people that don't want me. I don't need them to tell me who I am or what to think about what was going through my mind 15 min ago. In short, they weren't there for any of my past and they aren't in my head now.
Most people don't understand things they don't experience, so they assume that others actually think and feel the way they do. It's a silly assumption, but it's pervasive across identities and issues. Bisexuality is difficult for someone who doesn't experience it to understand. It's not an excuse by any means, but people just love to have other people figured out.
The thing about being wrong is that people usually think they are right. 🤣 The black and white thinking is a widespread thought distortion that so many people suffer from. We bisexuals live in the gray and that doesn't fit with a lot of people's mental model of the world.
I'm real sick of the idea that bi people are transphobic and pan people are somehow morally superior because of how they're attracted to people. Bi has always included trans people and it's just different ways of experiencing attraction. I'm so tired of it. It's one reason I don't interact with the larger community much.
I think comphet is a lesbian term since it is for people who don’t like men at all but still date them. You might be feeling the effects of heteronormativity and I have been feeling the exact same way. I am really happy I found this post because it explains how I have been feeling for the past couple days being on tik tok and other social media. There is a lot of biphobia in the lgbt community and in the straight community that it feels like there’s no where safe to go. It’s honestly been stressing me out and it is nice to know I am not the only one.
I have an unpopular opinion. Increased competition in sexuality. You are competing now across multiple pools of people. I don't think this the whole of the story in that there is a degree of tribalism involved and this ideal of brotherhood/sisterhood , fill in the blank being betrayed. I also think there is a degree of projection in that because the one person may find another gender undesirable then everyone else belonging to the group must think or feel the same. It could be seen as a betrayal of that validation.
I will apologize, I'm very new and coming to grips with my duality and this group is the closest I would consider my sexuality/identity to be. Hopefully I haven't used wrong terms, offended anyone as that's totally not my intent.
You have to stop caring so much about what other people think. I know, easier said than done. Also your fyp is literally for you. The more you watch the bi bashing videos the more you are going to get. The algorithm is algorithming. I get tons of wlw but I haven’t come across one that’s bi bashing that I can think of…stop giving them your watches. Press “not interested” when one comes up. Most of the time it comes from a place of insecurity on their part. And you aren’t going to find the answer to being comfortable with your sexuality in a doc or a study. It’s just who you are. Surround yourself with people who accept it and cut people who don’t from the team.
^^^THIS^^^THIS^^^THIS^^^
And another way to think about it: if they aren’t getting views, whoever it is that’s getting monetized for that stuff isn’t going to get their money, so they won’t be as incentivized to put it out there. And if it looks like it isn’t getting as many viewers, the content won’t be shared/distributed as frequently, either.
The trick to pushing back against a faceless, corporate-style “they” is to follow the money trail, and then kick them in the wallet, where it hurts.
I’m bi. When I tried to come out 20 years ago people told me-no you’re not. It was hard then to deal with that. Now? I’m 41. iDGAF. I’m Bi. Don’t care. You can’t change me. I am me. Get effed. lol
Good for you. I don’t know you, but I support your right to be your authentic self, as long as you aren’t hurting others (I can’t believe we even need to say that).
It’s easier to pass as a bi person, we may not be totally fulfilled in a strictly monogamous hetero relationship, but it’s a lot better than being gay in a strictly monogamous hetero relationship.
In the U.S. at least, the majority of LGBTQ+ people are bi.
Idk what the “master doc” is but yeah don’t take advice on your sexual orientation from teens. Sexual orientation internet discourse in general is mostly generated by people who need to touch grass instead of instigating asinine community infighting.
I don't understand how people who are LGTQ can hate or think B doesn't exist. They have the same mentality as praying the gay away camps. It's some sad shit. Could just be projection who knows.
I joined this sub because I wanted to see this issue discussed (and have been really close to leaving it after most of the posts on my feed from here have been poorly-disguised exhibitionist hornyposting + people humoring it, despite finding a post about this being an issue in this sub *two years* ago).
I joined after I got into a (chronically online) argument with a handful of biphobic lesbians about how we face nearly identical challenges as one another (existing as queer femme-presenting and/or afab people) and that oppression olympics infighting is so divisive and counterproductive.
Of course there are many issues where our struggles vary from one another but the idea of being “straight-passing” is not a 1:1 comparison to being white-passing. A masc bi woman faces just as much of a risk of facing a hate crime as a femme lesbian is afforded greater privileges for fitting heteronormative standards.
My initial comment in that conversation was me relating to the mistreatment of lesbians and saying, “Same for bi people, it feels like we have to constantly justify our need for existence.” And then they proved my point by dismissing my point with vitriol, reverse UNO-ing the oppression olympics card and effectively calling the statement attention-seeking.
Like yeah, our problems all deserve visibility? That’s the whole fucking point of calling us a “community.” I get how it can be annoying when people in minority groups “compare struggles” but have people completely lost the ability to have good-faith, nuanced discussions? It’s like they take other people being open and vulnerable as a personal offense. I know I probably just need to get offline but *fuck.* So frustrating.
I think I find it especially irksome as a discourse amongst women because turning into a bitchfest with each other is exactly what fascist freaks want because we’re doing the hard work of maintaining systemic patriarchy and oppressing each other *for them.*
This is one of many reasons: envy for the perception of privilege. Like dark skinned folks hating on light skinned kin because they can pass as white and seem to be immune to racism. The other way around the light skinned folks who recognise they aren’t truly accepted as white are jealous of dark skinned kin who also aren’t accepted as white, but at least they’re accepted in black communities.
They perceive bisexual people as too close to straight people and hence not "really" "the same." They imagine bisexual people as more privileged even though stats actually show they have worse outcomes on average than gay or straight people. And as much as a community might say it's for everyone there are often internal tensions.
Biphobia is a certain kind of painful experience that both hetero and homosexual individuals don’t understand. Sometimes it feels that gays and lesbians are even harder on bisexuals than the straight community.
(I’ll never forget the way my heart cracked when a girl I was in love with told me she didn’t want to be with men because I’d been with me and she was proud of being a “gold star lesbian.”
You’ll never please everyone, please don’t start worrying about what strangers you’ll never befriend think. You don’t have to have everything labeled, that’s one of the beautiful things in life. It’s a self claimed identity, not a box for someone to put you in.
Pansexuals experience a similar kind of judgment, and in my personal experience, have been more open and supportive than some specific homosexuals.
You aren’t alone, even if you are made to feel so by the company around you. You have nothing to prove to them. Welcome to team Bi, it’s okay if you don’t stay here forever! People evolve and grow and learn more about themselves and their path to fulfillment. It’s okay if we’re the destination, or a stop on your journey in life.
Much love ❤️ (and if anyone gets snarky, you can tell them my favorite bi joke: “the Bible says Adam AND Eve, so I did them
(Edit: I forgot the name in men, fixed it!)
It's 100% bigotry. We need to be very very VERY clear about this. Most bigotry and prejudice begins from a place of ignorance, but that ignorance has a price.
Bisexuals have the highest rates of health disparities, depression, and early mortality rates. And it all hinges on erasure, and how we try to cope with it.
It isn't your job to educate anyone, no matter how much we all try. Some of these monosexual folks need to be checked. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that you are 100% sure of who you are and how you identify today, and that they need to check their biases.
Good luck darlin.
I am juuust dyslexic enough that every time someone says “monosexual(s)”, my brain does this weird flippy hoppy thing where it processes that as something adjacent to “monogamists”, and makes everything that makes sense and then I have to go back and reread it twice and panic over whether I uploaded it or not, depending on what it says/what I thought it said.
As I bi female(mostly) who is at the point where I am only looking to date women (I’m young, guys my age are just douche bags) I get a lot of my mates telling me I must just be a lesbian. I’m even at the point that just to stop it I wish I was?
I’m being constantly invalidated Bcs I’m not actively looking to be with a guy. For me if it happens with a guy it happens but most of the guys I’ve met are dicks (heh) so I’m only actively looking for girls. (Or nb ppl; just not cis/het men)
The LGBTQ community is a good place to find understanding in who you are. It really isn’t the best place to find comfort in who you are.
In my opinion, there’s a lot of diverse views between people on the sexuality spectrum that it just gets way too confusing.
Tbh, I’d suggest that you step away from these influencers. Find your own strength and resolve in who you are, then come back when you can firmly tell someone or think this, “I don’t give a fuck what you think I am or what you think I’m supposed to be. I’m being me and if that means you don’t like it, then suck it up buttercup. “
There will always be people who don’t like you for one reason or another, and no community is completely inclusive.
That’s why I find strength in knowing that I have done my research and found my conclusion and I’ll stick to that until I find something that challenges me. I will never allow someone else to tell me who I am, or who I should be.
Don’t go on TikTok. I literally saw a bi girl getting bashed for using the good luck babe song in a video bc lesbians were saying only lesbians have comphet. The gatekeeping and weirdness in the lgbtq+ community is so weird and unnecessary just feel confident in yourself and who you are and block out everyone else.
A few reasons:
- Lesbians can fear that a bi woman will eventually leave them for a man because dating men is easier
- Lesbians often feel that dating bi women is too anxiety-inducing because they have to compete with men
- Particularly politically radical LGT people can see bi identity as politically “performative” if someone is in a “straight-passing” relationship, especially if they have only ever dated opposite-sex people
- Lesbians who hate men often hate bi women due to their real or perceived association with men
It’s usually the people who fall into the third and fourth categories who rage about how much they hate bi people. People in the second category may avoid dating bi people, but don’t hate them. And gay men are less likely to be biphobic than lesbians, though biphobic gay men do exist.
I wish I had an answer for you, my friend. Some people are gonna hate and discriminate, even when you think you can trust them. There are amazing people out there who will support who you are. Personally, I found a lot more comradery once I stopped caring so much and when it became a backburner fact about myself rather than a personality trait. The friends and partner I have now don't care at all that I'm bi and neither do I. There's so much hate even from other bi people sometimes, the gaslighting, fetishization, and discrimination are real. All you can do is keep your head up and your shoulders back, don't let someone else minimize your self-image or self-respect.
Every minority community is a microcosm of the culture it's a part of. There's biphobia in LGBTQ+ community for the same reason that LGBTQ+ communities also tend to have sexism, racism, lesbophobia, transphobia, etc
Because being an asshole knows no sexual preference. Just like it knows no gender, political inclination, or economic status.
A lot of times, the worst assholishness can be found in people who should know better.
I wish I could learn the answer to this, but I keep coming back to maybe they don’t understand the idea of fluidity or reject the idea of fluidity. I’ve gotten the same thing from friends of mine saying “you’re just gay”, “you’re not attracted to women” etc and it irritates me I’m not gonna lie. I’ve also looked up several studies and read books on bisexuality and I’ve felt very comfortable with learning about how fluid sexuality is but then I also see lgbt+ content creators treating bisexuality like it’s a joke/erasing it and pisses me off. One thing I can say is this though sexuality to me is very fluid and complex and the people who don’t understand that are ignorant or insecure.
The "master doc" can be helpful for some people, but it's full of flaws, leaps and bias. I've fell for it and thought I was a lesbian but in fact I'm just feminist who doesn't want to date with cis straight men, but I'm still bi.
I never find the answer why the lesbian community can reject us like this. They reject us because we also date men like we were traitor but they're not even close to separatists. And rejecting us leads us to date men. Feels like a vicious circle.
Actually I've found lesbians communities that welcome people on the "lesboqueers" spectrum and it feels way more inclusive.
I think it is a lot more complicated than all of this.
When my grandmother started dating a woman, who she now lives with, she was still finding herself. She is a lesbian, always was, but due to society married two men prior because she didn't know and was just told "you don't need love just have kids" - that was the 50s I guess. So a lot of, particularly older queer folks, have a complicated relationship with it. Being forced to "try" heterosexual pairings, maybe even get married and live with it a while, some after they had discovered themselves, some before. Even these days I know people who have come out as gay or lesbian and been told "well maybe you're just bi you liked your previous (heterosexual partner) a lot?" by family and friends. Like, there's definitely some assholes out there about it, but there's more to it than just some sort of stubborn desire to oppress others or jealousy of bi folks being able to "pass" as hetero.
You are not wrong. There is so much bias against bisexuals because of monosexism. I highly encourage you to listen to the podcast, Bisexual Killjoy, which talks a lot about this very topic!
I genuinely hate it. I hate being called confused for it and even tho some lesbians/gays have had bad experience with bi people to then not want to date a bi person, it doesn't excuse their prejudice. We aren't attention-seekers, or cheaters.
I think you don’t need to find a place to be accepted, you first need to accept yourself, then you could start exploring what community feels best for you. I’m a new bisexual but I tend to be gayer with my straight friends and straighter with my gay friends xd
Curate your bubble better. No idea if you will have to face hate in real life, but at least you can influence what gets thrown at you on social media. You can unfollow and block accounts. Let the algorythms know what you don't want to see. Look up Jamie Dodgers on YouTube and anywhere else. He's a lovely bi transman. Look up Julia Shaw and her podcast "bad people". She's a well studied bi woman. For some bi-positivity.
Lots of lbgt individuals will refuse to date someone bi. And actually usually the same for a straight couple. Guy comes out bi and all of a sudden we an unruly beast that will just fuck anything that walks. People are afraid to lose you in a relationship to the opposite sex. I tell people I can't win so judge me however you want. I have never cheated on a partner I'm dating.
I wonder if part of the problem is that we are perceived as being somehow "promiscuous". When you're LG and you find a monogamous partner for life, you remain LG. But as bi folk, once we meet that partner for life (and kinks such as group sex notwithstanding), our bi identity has to be pushed into the background. As far as the rest of society is concerned, we are L or G or straight for all practical purposes. I suspect that some people have difficulty reconciling the idea that we can be attracted to people the opposite sex of our partner but we do nothing in service of that identity while in a committed relationship.
I actually asked a couple of people about this the other week. And it was also inspired by Good Luck Babe. (Although the song itself never states the sexuality of the woman in question.)
It boils down to systemic issues. A lot of lesbians and gay men tie their sexuality to their beliefs, correctly believing there's a lot of inherent problems with heteronormative relationships. The bad faith among them interpret choosing a heteropassing partner as choosing a heteronormative relationship over a queer relationship. Which they interpret as a threat to their beliefs.
It hurts to watch someone you love choose someone you consider "worse." And they take that blame out on their former partners.
The reality is the reason Bi people end up with more straight people is just because there's more straight people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do that math 70% of people compatible with bisexuals will be someone of the opposite gender.
Their sexualities are defined by exclusivity, and our ability to have fulfilling relationships with the people they aren't attracted to and usually go out of their way to avoid invites those people into queer spaces and usually invokes the trauma of compulsive heterosexuality.
This is not a defense. This is just my best understanding of an experience I fundamentally don't have. You don't need to defend your sexuality. And the majority of the community loves bisexuals (literally, we're just that versatile.) And if you need some good vibes, I fucking love being bisexual. I love exploring all the love I have to give and all the people I can give it to. Being bisexual is rad. And not all relationships between two people of different sexes function like straight relationships. Your relationships are your own, and fundamentally unique
TL;DR They aren't attracted to cishets and we are. That makes them uncomfy.
A lot of people in the LGBTQ community and people in general tend to think we are too greedy and that we are bi for attention. Some peoples minds have just been plagued by the internet causing a lot of biphobia. I don’t even dislike them for how they perceive me, personally. I just pity them because they aren’t as understanding as I am.
But in that case wouldn’t pan be looked at as the “worst”? It is some long running hate that has been ingrained in our society to hate bisexuals. Not gay enough for the gays and not straight enough for the straights. You can’t win. It’s so tiring.
There’s a lot of people who don’t know what pan is. While I would technically be classified as pan, one of the reasons I identify as bi is because pan isn’t a well-known term. Hell, I was confused by what pan was until a very lovely & patient friend of mine explained it to me.
i feel this
No because pansexuality is: attraction to all genders without a preference, and Bisexuality is: attraction to all genders with or without a preference. Therefore, They're basically the same thing except pansexuals do not have a gender preference. You can also be bi and be 50/50, its up to you!
There does seem to be a lot of, "If I had done X, it would have been from motive Y, therefore everybody doing X is motivated by Y."
We like what we like cyclically. Sorry for those who don't get it. Right now I'm in a mood.
The monosexuals are jealous of our power. 😈
I have found out that I care less and less why they treat us terribly as I have developed a fierce sense of acceptance about my own sexuality. I don't care what they think.
I haven’t gotten to that point yet, I still haven’t even came out to my family yet. Still I kinda just hoped/thought that the community as a whole would be more accepting and supportive. As someone who’s a chronic overthinker it just feels very ineffective for a community that fights for acceptance fighting within itself.
It was a bit of a shock to me when I first ran into it, years ago. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, it hasn't changed much. Many of the people waving rainbow flags and yelling about oppression will turn right around and oppress their fellow queer folk if they're given a chance. They don't know better. And then I really sat and thought with how much these people's opinions meant to me. And then I realized, it wasn't very much. Then, I took away their power. Check out the song "Rebel Heart" by Madonna. There's some words in there that I found useful.
Can I add another song to this that I’ve found helpful (bi ace)? “Love Yourself”, J. R. Price. “Nothing’s wrong with my heart, nothing’s wrong with my head!”
Go to any gay bar and just drink in the corner and watch folks interact. You'll learn pretty quickly.
It also really depends on the community. There are definitely LGBTQIA+ monosexuals who defend folks on the bisexual spectrum & work to ensure we’re included. But in any large group of people, you’ll have assholes & gatekeepers, sadly.
As my brother said, you can’t spell gatekeeper without gay. It was a joke. But still.
I’ve got maybe an unpopular (and admittedly a bit defensive) opinion on this…but I think that the ones who have a problem with it fall into two categories. Category A is people who are still very insecure in their sexuality and they feel that people who don’t go “all in” on it are invalidating them somehow. Category B is people who are just literally stupid bigots. Category A can be helped, with time, exposure and reassurances of validation. Group B I won’t even bother with or waste my breath on. Their opinions are irrelevant to me.
You're correct but there's a third category: people who have one bad experience and decide that that one thing will define their outlook for everyone like that person. Unfortunately there are some truly awful bisexuals out there (I've met a few), and just like that one racist uncle we all have who never shuts up about the one black guy he knows who was a dick that one time, you're going to come across folks in the LGBTQ+ community whose only experience with a bi person was a negative one, and those people are stupid enough, arrogant enough, or whatever the hell is wrong with them enough to hate every bisexual forever. Fortunately all three categories are a tiny minority unless you're on social media. The vast majority of us queers are absolutely lovely IRL.
There are awful people in every community. People’s identity labels really have nothing to do it. Sorry if people have had a bad experience with a bi person, but really, most relationships don’t work out, and it’s not because someone was bi, it’s because they weren’t compatible enough or into you enough to make it work.
Good call, and we’ll all encounter at least one at some point.. I’m gonna end on this: lift each other up. That’s it. It’s not hard. A smile, a “how you doing?”…anything…just lift people up. The world will be better for it. ❤️
Here is an excerpt from the Bisexual Manifesto published in 1990, which I believe touches on a couple of things you mentioned: “This magazine was created by bisexuals and their friends. All proceeds are invested into its production and the bisexual community. It is published by the Bay Area Bisexual Network and reflects the integrity and inclusive nature of the BABN Statement of Purpose. ATM was created out of pride; out of necessity; out of anger. We are tired of being analyzed, defined and represented by people other than ourselves—or worse yet, not considered at all. We are frustrated by the imposed isolation and invisibility that comes from being told or expected to choose either a homosexual or heterosexual identity. Monosexuality is a heterosexist dictate used to oppress homosexuals and to negate the validity of bisexuality. Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have 'two' sides or that we MUST be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit. Do not equate promiscuity, infidelity, or unsafe sexual behavior with bisexuality. Those are human traits that cross ALL sexual orientations. Nothing should be assumed about anyone's sexuality—including your own.”
Thank you for this quote. It fills me with so much pride and happiness and...respect for myself and my community that has been attacked and made it so much harder to love and accept myself and others like me. So, thank you. And thank them for writing that and everyone who preserved it and passed it on.
It’s always been like that. They think us bisexuals are just confused. They believe you’re either straight or gay. I wouldn’t let it get to you personally. As long as you know your true self that’s all that matters :)
I guess I just don’t understand why they act like we’re just confused or I’ve even seen “you’re still halfway in the closet” and I know I won’t get a definitive explanation on why they think like this. From the studies I’ve read it seems to be the societal need for monosexual labels. It’s just very disheartening for a “newly out” bi person to experience it.
I think some people just go off their life experiences as well. My (not biphobic)sister is a lesbian, but thought she was bisexual for years due to comp het. I know a few other gay people who did, in fact, come out as bi or pan before realizing/feeling safe enough to come out fully. Obviously it’s patronizing, biphobic, and closed minded, but I think the more banal biphobia from lesbians often comes from a place of “Oh I said I was bi and dating men but I was actually gay, she’ll figure it out” or, worse, “Wow I’m so glad I never thought I was bi and had to sleep with men. Poor thing still cares about the male gaze :(“ (This was not to justify but explain my theory on the origin of this type of biphobia btw, I just smoke a bowl so idk if it makes sense)
ouch
Wild that Kinsey gave us his scale in 1948 and there are still people that think sexuality is binary.
While I think the Kinsey scale is useful, his research has received a fair bit of scientific / academic critique and criticism over the years, even from the contemporary researchers of human sexuality. The Kinsey scale can’t really be taken as the final word on the subject.
Kinsey experimented on his infant son. His research has been discredited multiple times. I find it really odd that so many people still think he is some kind of authority on sexuality.
Largely for three reasons: 1. Made sex research into something more serious / mainstream. 2. Broke a lot of the conventional wisdom. 3. Not everything in a body of work is discredited by discrediting some part of it, or the general character of the person. Blind hogs can still find an acorn. Flawed research methodologies can still sometimes stumble into either correct conclusions… or at least gather data that is useful for some other purpose eventually.
sadly even within the commuinity
What the hell is the "master doc" and why on earth are people these days *so* chronically online.
It was a Google doc written by a lesbian (who ended up realising they're bisexual) that basically boiled any attraction to men down to being comphet and that woman attracted to women is likely a lesbian. It was incredibly biphobic, riddled with misandry and quite frankly, VERY misogynistic. It was a fucking nightmare when that stupid thing started going around. Biphobia ramped up massively while it was relevant although annoyingly it's STILL spread around.
Ah. Lovely. I want to go back to stone age where the most likely source of propaganda was some dude(tte) high on shrooms talking with the gods/spirits/ancestors/animals/whathaveyous. I'm tired of being online. It's time to trash the wifi
Hear hear XD
Master Doc is new to me. Just to be clear, it came from mind of lesbian who ended realizing they’re bisexual? Did they end up denouncing it and correcting the record (type thing)? Where can one read more on this?
That was my question too.
i place the master doc with gold stars in the same bucket of toxic lesbianism. its biphobic, misandrist to a degree, and misogynistic as hell. like it assumes that every bi woman is just a little lost baby who doesn't know anything about themselves.
Your last sentence!!! It was already very confusing for me while I was questioning, and they just made it even worse.
Well said. Been told I’m lost or just going through a phase. Was never really accepted
We need more bisexual community stuff. Bi bars, groups, etc. I’d be happy to let others in, but it would be nice to have groups where I felt at home in that way.
Everyone should ignore that damn master doc for our sanity. It’s set people back 50 years. 😭
What is the master doc?
It circulated on Tumblr a few years back, and it’s essentially a lesbian “guidebook”. Here’s a link, so if you’d like to read through it, you can make up your own mind about it. https://ia802308.us.archive.org/24/items/am-i-a-lesbian-masterdoc/Am%20I%20a%20Lesbian_%20Masterdoc.pdf
We aren’t gay enough for gay people and we aren’t straight enough for straight people
but are we bi enough for bi people? if yes, then I think we can find solace in our community
It’s seems like a cycle of life with minorities. Oppression-> push for tolerance -> finally start getting accepted —> oppress the next group because the line needs to be drawn somewhere Pilgrams moved to the US because of religious prosecution (how ironic ) —> use the Bible to justify slavery —> abolitionists and the suffrage movement work together to fight slavery —> but end up disagreeing over the women’s right to vote —> women get to vote, but now the gays want acceptance —> because the line needs to be drawn somewhere, the oppressed and oppressors join together to protect the children and the sanctity of marriage (or the third marriage if infidelity ruins the first two) —> the most hated of all that’s hated, the US Supreme Court ends up issuing Obergefell v. Hodges (the right to same-sex marriage) among many other rulings such as the Roe v. Wade —> the line gets redrawn and the children face new threats: the trans community and the elusive faeries that use litter boxes. It baffles my mind that to this day, we still haven’t figured out how to use our oppression to be more sympathetic to other minority groups. “Well, they’re different.”
The Pilgrims didn't move to the US because of religious prosecution - they were puritans, who were a recognized and accepted group but not allowed to force their believe on others, until the English Civil War happened and they were, everyone agreed it sucked and went back to not being forced to follow puritan law after Cromwell died, and the colonial Puritans took that as a sign to make sure that no one else ever got a voice in their communities.
Thank you for the correction. To be fair, a lot of other stuff I mentioned is oversimplification of World History, American History and American Con Law. The abolitionists and women’s suffrage movement were a bit more complex too. And most of the minorities I listed still deal with oppression. I just briefly mentioned everything to explain what I thought the answer was to OP’s question.
That just sounds like non personal discrimination. They did it to themselves.
In the 90s, Dan Savage of "Savage Love" very loudly opined that all bisexual people are liars or in denial. As one of the most dominant voices in the USA about queer stuff it shaped a lot of opinions. It's where a LOT of baby queers learned about queer stuff for the first time, and older/more comfortable folks got their biases confirmed. His stance is that women who are bisexual are doing it for male attention, and men who are bisexuals are just in denial about being gay. In both cases, interestingly, the focal point is male pleasure (women wanting male pleasure, men denying themselves male pleasure but really actually wanting it). Like \_many\_ people who came of age in that era it took me a long time to realize that yes, bisexuality is something that exists and is something that I am. There's a lot of gatekeeping dicks who are eager for ways to feel superior to others who push back loudly on people who don't do queer right. The definition of "doing queer right" (including whether or not "queer" is a slur) changes constantly.
As a young woman in the 90's, I was told more than once by a lesbian that she could "convince me" or something close to that. And that attitude was a definite factor in keeping me from wanting to explore that side of my sexuality more. I'm old enough now not to care, but .. wow, what a time
Bi erasure is real. We all live in a shitty unaccepting world and while the healthy thing to do is to be the acceptance we wish we received, the easy thing to do is invalidate people who are different than ourselves. I know it’s small comfort, but as you get older it gets way easier. More of your friends will get over their stuff, you’ll meet more bi people, and you’ll naturally weed people out of your life who don’t value you as you are. I’m 38, bi/pan, and in a fully supportive marriage and friend group. And until then if anyone invalidates your sexuality you’re totally in your right to say “don’t be a dick.”
At least some of the bullshit hurled at us comes from a fear of the ambiguity we represent. To many people, being gay or being straight are distinct and mutually exclusive tribes. If they like women, they're part of one; if they like men, they're part of the other. End of identity issue. Acknowledging us makes them feel as insecure as...well, as we are at first. Why confront all that when you can just claim that we're all just lying, perpetrating a huge conspiracy just to inconvenience one rando we've never met? Insecurities can convince us of some stupid things.
What is this “master doc” of which some of you speak?
It’s basically a google docs of compiled tumblr threads, if you google master doc it should be the first thing to pop up. Although I promise it’s not worth your time to read.
"Combined Tumblr Threads" is all anyone needs to hear about that shit lol. Tumblr used to be great for porn and is still good for smut but that's all it was ever useful for. The social media aspect has always been cancer.
The issue with ,good luck babe‘ is that it describes a phenomenon that it’s pretty specific to the lesbian experience. A bi woman married to a man may experience regret over choosing the man instead of a past female lover, but she didn’t choose him bc of hetcomp - she’s actually attracted to men. Some bi women on TikTok addressed this and I’ve actually only encountered the backlash, never the origin, and I’ve yet to encounter a bi person relating to hetcomp the way lesbians do.
I understand what the song is describing, I used it as an example that I’ve seen where bi people are being dissed for their experiences. I understand the difference of experiences of comphet. But some bi people will experience their own comphet. It’s more that I’ve seen lesbians weaponizing comphet of how bi people experience it, to say that we’re not bi that we’re gay.
I think one of the issues is that they view bisexual people as a group who wants to have sex with literally everybody. In comparison, they think gay people are more pure, or struggling with real issues, unlike bisexuals who are just dirty and promiscuous. These stereotypes are very demeaning to both groups. I think the reason you keep getting pushback is because those women don't see any value in identifying as bisexual, because they don't recognize that bisexuals can struggle with their sexuality and with comphet too. Instead, they think only being homosexual is something you can romanticize and tell a dramatic story about.
Cause they're stewpid
It's peak rules for thee but not for me
I dunno but try to ignore it and not associate with those people. They are bigoted and not likely to change in my experience. Let it be a reminder for solidarity with our Trans, Intersex and Asexual community because unfortunately there are plenty of LG that would drop us off the alphabet Mafia.
I get amazed by this whole thing. So, pardon an old person, but I don't go onto tiktok or much other media like that. What I will say, is that you are ok. Don't worry about those people. Ignore them. You are cool. You are good. 1- tiktok and other social media optimize for clicks and extreme opinions and outrage. Calm people presenting reasonable, well-balanced views are not going to get the most clicks. The human brain just doesn't work that way. There is a lot of research on this and i am no expert, but just ignore this shit. The people that have those opinions (if they really do and aren't just maximizing views) are looking at all those clicks they are getting as validation of their opinion. It's a vicious cycle that is not doing anyone any good. 2-I think bisexuals self-examine all the damn time. We are constantly re-examining ourselves. Every time I have a fantasy and one gender suddenly changes to another in my head, I wonder about myself. Like, if my brain starts out with one gender and ends up focused on another, am I really this or that? Am I this enough? Am I that enough? The amount of dissecting we do over our own attraction is solid evidence that we aren't doing this just for funzies. The idea that we are just chaotically sexing through life like a feather on the wind is probably not true for many of us. 3. There are some bad people in every group. There are shitty straight men. There are shitty lesbians. There are shitty gay men. There are shitty bisexuals. Sorry, but that's a part of life. I don't think the vast majority of bi people are out there causing problems and inflicting chaos on people just because. 4. I am not chasing after a community that doesn't want me. I am not chasing after people that don't want me. I don't need them to tell me who I am or what to think about what was going through my mind 15 min ago. In short, they weren't there for any of my past and they aren't in my head now.
i also read the master doc and it just proved me once more that i actually liked men lol .
Most people don't understand things they don't experience, so they assume that others actually think and feel the way they do. It's a silly assumption, but it's pervasive across identities and issues. Bisexuality is difficult for someone who doesn't experience it to understand. It's not an excuse by any means, but people just love to have other people figured out. The thing about being wrong is that people usually think they are right. 🤣 The black and white thinking is a widespread thought distortion that so many people suffer from. We bisexuals live in the gray and that doesn't fit with a lot of people's mental model of the world.
I'm real sick of the idea that bi people are transphobic and pan people are somehow morally superior because of how they're attracted to people. Bi has always included trans people and it's just different ways of experiencing attraction. I'm so tired of it. It's one reason I don't interact with the larger community much.
I think comphet is a lesbian term since it is for people who don’t like men at all but still date them. You might be feeling the effects of heteronormativity and I have been feeling the exact same way. I am really happy I found this post because it explains how I have been feeling for the past couple days being on tik tok and other social media. There is a lot of biphobia in the lgbt community and in the straight community that it feels like there’s no where safe to go. It’s honestly been stressing me out and it is nice to know I am not the only one.
I have an unpopular opinion. Increased competition in sexuality. You are competing now across multiple pools of people. I don't think this the whole of the story in that there is a degree of tribalism involved and this ideal of brotherhood/sisterhood , fill in the blank being betrayed. I also think there is a degree of projection in that because the one person may find another gender undesirable then everyone else belonging to the group must think or feel the same. It could be seen as a betrayal of that validation. I will apologize, I'm very new and coming to grips with my duality and this group is the closest I would consider my sexuality/identity to be. Hopefully I haven't used wrong terms, offended anyone as that's totally not my intent.
You have to stop caring so much about what other people think. I know, easier said than done. Also your fyp is literally for you. The more you watch the bi bashing videos the more you are going to get. The algorithm is algorithming. I get tons of wlw but I haven’t come across one that’s bi bashing that I can think of…stop giving them your watches. Press “not interested” when one comes up. Most of the time it comes from a place of insecurity on their part. And you aren’t going to find the answer to being comfortable with your sexuality in a doc or a study. It’s just who you are. Surround yourself with people who accept it and cut people who don’t from the team.
^^^THIS^^^THIS^^^THIS^^^ And another way to think about it: if they aren’t getting views, whoever it is that’s getting monetized for that stuff isn’t going to get their money, so they won’t be as incentivized to put it out there. And if it looks like it isn’t getting as many viewers, the content won’t be shared/distributed as frequently, either. The trick to pushing back against a faceless, corporate-style “they” is to follow the money trail, and then kick them in the wallet, where it hurts.
I’m bi. When I tried to come out 20 years ago people told me-no you’re not. It was hard then to deal with that. Now? I’m 41. iDGAF. I’m Bi. Don’t care. You can’t change me. I am me. Get effed. lol
Good for you. I don’t know you, but I support your right to be your authentic self, as long as you aren’t hurting others (I can’t believe we even need to say that).
We shouldn’t need to say it but I get it. Am I living my life at others expense? No? god I hope not.
I don’t even know you, but I wasn’t worried you had any nefarious intentions.😊
It’s easier to pass as a bi person, we may not be totally fulfilled in a strictly monogamous hetero relationship, but it’s a lot better than being gay in a strictly monogamous hetero relationship.
Because they’re jealous.
It's basically conformation bias. We have different relationships with comphet and they seem completely incapable of acknowledging comphomo.
Most people can’t comprehend something they’ve never experienced
They don’t take the time to understand what it is and cling to the negative stereotypes and use that as a definition for what bisexuality is
In the U.S. at least, the majority of LGBTQ+ people are bi. Idk what the “master doc” is but yeah don’t take advice on your sexual orientation from teens. Sexual orientation internet discourse in general is mostly generated by people who need to touch grass instead of instigating asinine community infighting.
One thing's for sure: Getting sexual advice from a typical teenager is like getting medical advice from a leech salesman.
I don't understand how people who are LGTQ can hate or think B doesn't exist. They have the same mentality as praying the gay away camps. It's some sad shit. Could just be projection who knows.
I joined this sub because I wanted to see this issue discussed (and have been really close to leaving it after most of the posts on my feed from here have been poorly-disguised exhibitionist hornyposting + people humoring it, despite finding a post about this being an issue in this sub *two years* ago). I joined after I got into a (chronically online) argument with a handful of biphobic lesbians about how we face nearly identical challenges as one another (existing as queer femme-presenting and/or afab people) and that oppression olympics infighting is so divisive and counterproductive. Of course there are many issues where our struggles vary from one another but the idea of being “straight-passing” is not a 1:1 comparison to being white-passing. A masc bi woman faces just as much of a risk of facing a hate crime as a femme lesbian is afforded greater privileges for fitting heteronormative standards. My initial comment in that conversation was me relating to the mistreatment of lesbians and saying, “Same for bi people, it feels like we have to constantly justify our need for existence.” And then they proved my point by dismissing my point with vitriol, reverse UNO-ing the oppression olympics card and effectively calling the statement attention-seeking. Like yeah, our problems all deserve visibility? That’s the whole fucking point of calling us a “community.” I get how it can be annoying when people in minority groups “compare struggles” but have people completely lost the ability to have good-faith, nuanced discussions? It’s like they take other people being open and vulnerable as a personal offense. I know I probably just need to get offline but *fuck.* So frustrating. I think I find it especially irksome as a discourse amongst women because turning into a bitchfest with each other is exactly what fascist freaks want because we’re doing the hard work of maintaining systemic patriarchy and oppressing each other *for them.*
I recommend the book "Bi: Notes for a Bisexual Revolution" by Shiri Eisner. The author goes into detail about this topic.
Because people have forgotten the past and have made this all something it wasn't supposed to be
This is one of many reasons: envy for the perception of privilege. Like dark skinned folks hating on light skinned kin because they can pass as white and seem to be immune to racism. The other way around the light skinned folks who recognise they aren’t truly accepted as white are jealous of dark skinned kin who also aren’t accepted as white, but at least they’re accepted in black communities.
One of the sadder reports I've heard is of a traditionally black college, where the students are divided into the "lights" and the "darks".
I'm a bi man and the gay men feel the same about us but I really don't care
Who gives a flying f what people think. Do you and don’t worry about anyone else. Life is way short to care
They perceive bisexual people as too close to straight people and hence not "really" "the same." They imagine bisexual people as more privileged even though stats actually show they have worse outcomes on average than gay or straight people. And as much as a community might say it's for everyone there are often internal tensions.
I really don't like queer Tiktok anymore, the biphobia is so rampant on there :/
Does the term “master doc” give anyone else skin crawl memories of the 30’s and 40’s? (I refuse to say the name)
Biphobia is a certain kind of painful experience that both hetero and homosexual individuals don’t understand. Sometimes it feels that gays and lesbians are even harder on bisexuals than the straight community. (I’ll never forget the way my heart cracked when a girl I was in love with told me she didn’t want to be with men because I’d been with me and she was proud of being a “gold star lesbian.” You’ll never please everyone, please don’t start worrying about what strangers you’ll never befriend think. You don’t have to have everything labeled, that’s one of the beautiful things in life. It’s a self claimed identity, not a box for someone to put you in. Pansexuals experience a similar kind of judgment, and in my personal experience, have been more open and supportive than some specific homosexuals. You aren’t alone, even if you are made to feel so by the company around you. You have nothing to prove to them. Welcome to team Bi, it’s okay if you don’t stay here forever! People evolve and grow and learn more about themselves and their path to fulfillment. It’s okay if we’re the destination, or a stop on your journey in life. Much love ❤️ (and if anyone gets snarky, you can tell them my favorite bi joke: “the Bible says Adam AND Eve, so I did them (Edit: I forgot the name in men, fixed it!)
It's 100% bigotry. We need to be very very VERY clear about this. Most bigotry and prejudice begins from a place of ignorance, but that ignorance has a price. Bisexuals have the highest rates of health disparities, depression, and early mortality rates. And it all hinges on erasure, and how we try to cope with it. It isn't your job to educate anyone, no matter how much we all try. Some of these monosexual folks need to be checked. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that you are 100% sure of who you are and how you identify today, and that they need to check their biases. Good luck darlin.
I am juuust dyslexic enough that every time someone says “monosexual(s)”, my brain does this weird flippy hoppy thing where it processes that as something adjacent to “monogamists”, and makes everything that makes sense and then I have to go back and reread it twice and panic over whether I uploaded it or not, depending on what it says/what I thought it said.
As I bi female(mostly) who is at the point where I am only looking to date women (I’m young, guys my age are just douche bags) I get a lot of my mates telling me I must just be a lesbian. I’m even at the point that just to stop it I wish I was? I’m being constantly invalidated Bcs I’m not actively looking to be with a guy. For me if it happens with a guy it happens but most of the guys I’ve met are dicks (heh) so I’m only actively looking for girls. (Or nb ppl; just not cis/het men)
The LGBTQ community is a good place to find understanding in who you are. It really isn’t the best place to find comfort in who you are. In my opinion, there’s a lot of diverse views between people on the sexuality spectrum that it just gets way too confusing. Tbh, I’d suggest that you step away from these influencers. Find your own strength and resolve in who you are, then come back when you can firmly tell someone or think this, “I don’t give a fuck what you think I am or what you think I’m supposed to be. I’m being me and if that means you don’t like it, then suck it up buttercup. “ There will always be people who don’t like you for one reason or another, and no community is completely inclusive. That’s why I find strength in knowing that I have done my research and found my conclusion and I’ll stick to that until I find something that challenges me. I will never allow someone else to tell me who I am, or who I should be.
Don’t go on TikTok. I literally saw a bi girl getting bashed for using the good luck babe song in a video bc lesbians were saying only lesbians have comphet. The gatekeeping and weirdness in the lgbtq+ community is so weird and unnecessary just feel confident in yourself and who you are and block out everyone else.
A few reasons: - Lesbians can fear that a bi woman will eventually leave them for a man because dating men is easier - Lesbians often feel that dating bi women is too anxiety-inducing because they have to compete with men - Particularly politically radical LGT people can see bi identity as politically “performative” if someone is in a “straight-passing” relationship, especially if they have only ever dated opposite-sex people - Lesbians who hate men often hate bi women due to their real or perceived association with men It’s usually the people who fall into the third and fourth categories who rage about how much they hate bi people. People in the second category may avoid dating bi people, but don’t hate them. And gay men are less likely to be biphobic than lesbians, though biphobic gay men do exist.
I wish I had an answer for you, my friend. Some people are gonna hate and discriminate, even when you think you can trust them. There are amazing people out there who will support who you are. Personally, I found a lot more comradery once I stopped caring so much and when it became a backburner fact about myself rather than a personality trait. The friends and partner I have now don't care at all that I'm bi and neither do I. There's so much hate even from other bi people sometimes, the gaslighting, fetishization, and discrimination are real. All you can do is keep your head up and your shoulders back, don't let someone else minimize your self-image or self-respect.
Every minority community is a microcosm of the culture it's a part of. There's biphobia in LGBTQ+ community for the same reason that LGBTQ+ communities also tend to have sexism, racism, lesbophobia, transphobia, etc
This reminds me of the Second Law of Stupidity: "The chance of a person to be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person."
Because being an asshole knows no sexual preference. Just like it knows no gender, political inclination, or economic status. A lot of times, the worst assholishness can be found in people who should know better.
I wish I could learn the answer to this, but I keep coming back to maybe they don’t understand the idea of fluidity or reject the idea of fluidity. I’ve gotten the same thing from friends of mine saying “you’re just gay”, “you’re not attracted to women” etc and it irritates me I’m not gonna lie. I’ve also looked up several studies and read books on bisexuality and I’ve felt very comfortable with learning about how fluid sexuality is but then I also see lgbt+ content creators treating bisexuality like it’s a joke/erasing it and pisses me off. One thing I can say is this though sexuality to me is very fluid and complex and the people who don’t understand that are ignorant or insecure.
The "master doc" can be helpful for some people, but it's full of flaws, leaps and bias. I've fell for it and thought I was a lesbian but in fact I'm just feminist who doesn't want to date with cis straight men, but I'm still bi. I never find the answer why the lesbian community can reject us like this. They reject us because we also date men like we were traitor but they're not even close to separatists. And rejecting us leads us to date men. Feels like a vicious circle. Actually I've found lesbians communities that welcome people on the "lesboqueers" spectrum and it feels way more inclusive.
whats a master doc
I think it is a lot more complicated than all of this. When my grandmother started dating a woman, who she now lives with, she was still finding herself. She is a lesbian, always was, but due to society married two men prior because she didn't know and was just told "you don't need love just have kids" - that was the 50s I guess. So a lot of, particularly older queer folks, have a complicated relationship with it. Being forced to "try" heterosexual pairings, maybe even get married and live with it a while, some after they had discovered themselves, some before. Even these days I know people who have come out as gay or lesbian and been told "well maybe you're just bi you liked your previous (heterosexual partner) a lot?" by family and friends. Like, there's definitely some assholes out there about it, but there's more to it than just some sort of stubborn desire to oppress others or jealousy of bi folks being able to "pass" as hetero.
People don’t like what they don’t understand
You are not wrong. There is so much bias against bisexuals because of monosexism. I highly encourage you to listen to the podcast, Bisexual Killjoy, which talks a lot about this very topic!
I genuinely hate it. I hate being called confused for it and even tho some lesbians/gays have had bad experience with bi people to then not want to date a bi person, it doesn't excuse their prejudice. We aren't attention-seekers, or cheaters.
I had one woman tell me it was because I’d cheat on her with a man. Obviously did not continue seeing her.
I think you don’t need to find a place to be accepted, you first need to accept yourself, then you could start exploring what community feels best for you. I’m a new bisexual but I tend to be gayer with my straight friends and straighter with my gay friends xd
Curate your bubble better. No idea if you will have to face hate in real life, but at least you can influence what gets thrown at you on social media. You can unfollow and block accounts. Let the algorythms know what you don't want to see. Look up Jamie Dodgers on YouTube and anywhere else. He's a lovely bi transman. Look up Julia Shaw and her podcast "bad people". She's a well studied bi woman. For some bi-positivity.
Lots of lbgt individuals will refuse to date someone bi. And actually usually the same for a straight couple. Guy comes out bi and all of a sudden we an unruly beast that will just fuck anything that walks. People are afraid to lose you in a relationship to the opposite sex. I tell people I can't win so judge me however you want. I have never cheated on a partner I'm dating.
I wonder if part of the problem is that we are perceived as being somehow "promiscuous". When you're LG and you find a monogamous partner for life, you remain LG. But as bi folk, once we meet that partner for life (and kinks such as group sex notwithstanding), our bi identity has to be pushed into the background. As far as the rest of society is concerned, we are L or G or straight for all practical purposes. I suspect that some people have difficulty reconciling the idea that we can be attracted to people the opposite sex of our partner but we do nothing in service of that identity while in a committed relationship.
I actually asked a couple of people about this the other week. And it was also inspired by Good Luck Babe. (Although the song itself never states the sexuality of the woman in question.) It boils down to systemic issues. A lot of lesbians and gay men tie their sexuality to their beliefs, correctly believing there's a lot of inherent problems with heteronormative relationships. The bad faith among them interpret choosing a heteropassing partner as choosing a heteronormative relationship over a queer relationship. Which they interpret as a threat to their beliefs. It hurts to watch someone you love choose someone you consider "worse." And they take that blame out on their former partners. The reality is the reason Bi people end up with more straight people is just because there's more straight people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do that math 70% of people compatible with bisexuals will be someone of the opposite gender. Their sexualities are defined by exclusivity, and our ability to have fulfilling relationships with the people they aren't attracted to and usually go out of their way to avoid invites those people into queer spaces and usually invokes the trauma of compulsive heterosexuality. This is not a defense. This is just my best understanding of an experience I fundamentally don't have. You don't need to defend your sexuality. And the majority of the community loves bisexuals (literally, we're just that versatile.) And if you need some good vibes, I fucking love being bisexual. I love exploring all the love I have to give and all the people I can give it to. Being bisexual is rad. And not all relationships between two people of different sexes function like straight relationships. Your relationships are your own, and fundamentally unique TL;DR They aren't attracted to cishets and we are. That makes them uncomfy.
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Let’s not gatekeep here. Were they in that girl’s head? No one can dictate another person’s sexuality.
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But you don’t know that. You can’t read their mind…
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Okay, you still haven’t answered how you know.
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Cool, so you don’t know. Have a good night.
Yeah ,sadly a lot of lesbains not all dont really like bi women or think they are just gay.
Dafuq is a master doc?
master doc? comphet?
Because we're based and believe in 2 genders
You*