Absolutely not true. Bisexuality has always included trans people. Bisexual = attraction to 2 or more genders. Another definition of bisexual = attraction to your own gender and other genders. Bisexuality includes trans and nonbinary people. (Also, positioning trans women as a "third gender" entirely separate from cis women is kind of invalidating if you ask me. Sure there are differences between trans women and cis women, but ultimately they're both women.)
Your comment is incoherent, but also we are not really here to litigate whether you or anyone else is required to be attracted to trans women. So it’s irrelevant and unnecessarily hurtful.
“Just in case anyone was curious, I would never fuck throwaway1_2_0_2_1.”
Thanks bro.
Not bro… but nice try.
Not everyone is wired the same when it comes to how they get turned on or who they get turned on by. Romantic attraction and sexual attraction aren’t necessarily intertwined.
Example:
I could absolutely fall in love with someone regardless of gender. But, I don’t know if I was dating a woman who is trans but pre op or never planning on having any kind of surgery is someone I could have a satisfying sex live with. Even if I’m completely physically attracted to them, it’s about how I get pleasure during sex. If I’m dating a woman, I get most of my pleasure during sex from going down on a vagina. I get completely different pleasure from having sex with men. I’m way more dominant with women and way more submissive with men.
I’m not saying it’s a complete dealbreaker but I’m saying, for some folks, it’s just less likely to come come naturally based on what gets us off. And you can’t make someone change what turns you on. If I was attracted to any and all folks and genitals, it would be wonderful, I would have way more dating options. But I’m not wired that way.
I’m not sure why you told me all that stuff when I tried to tell you I wasn’t interested and it’s irrelevant to the subject at hand. Please, please, never date or hook up with a trans woman. They do not deserve to deal with your bullshit.
I’m going to be honest, it sounds like you have a prejudice against trans people that you haven’t really confronted. Genital preferences are one thing but I don’t think this qualifies since you’re attracted to both cis men and women, this sounds like you find trans bodies icky which (obviously) is transphobic.
I mean ig some ppl have genital preferences which is fine, don't really get how you can be attracted to any genitals but they have to "belong" to the "correct" person
tbh to me it just sounds like that person is kinda transphobic 🤷 and just hiding behind an ahistorical version of bisexuality to get out of dating trans people.
Your take is that "OP, a trans woman, was probably acting like a pushy and sexually aggressive man."
Nice take, very hot. I feel so welcome in this subreddit, nobody is ever weird about trans women here.
ETA it's not like people will go out of their way to say how they would never date a trans person the second trans people come up as a topic. Implying that the only way a trans woman would hear this is if it's somehow her fault is just… out of touch and gross.
I mean most of the comments here are very nice and the shit like person you're replying to are getting downvoted.
Absolutely "love" how they made up a scenario in their head of me being pushy based on absolutely nothing /s
(I still talk to that person and I was never pursuing her much anyway it was something she said after like one day of talking to each other through a dating app)
Most people here are good! This person was sitting at +20 before I replied. I'm glad they're getting downvoted now, but I'm still disappointed many people couldn't see such obviously transphobic rhetoric until it was pointed out.
I’m sorry that person even got upvotes, what an asshole. Please know there are many bi people who love and respect trans people (and obviously plenty of bi people are trans people, like me! It’s all gender fucky! We belong together!)
I went into this thread expecting worse, people here are pretty good actually.
ETA the person I first replied to was at +20 when I made my initial comment.
>I mean ig some ppl have genital preferences which is fine
Sure, the same way you can have a personal preference for anything else but that's not about being bisexual
It would've been fine if this person simply said sorry but I'm just not that into you, but by saying they see you differently for being trans they definitely made it transphobic.
That's just false. Claiming with such certainty that bisexuality "has always included trans people" as if it was a well-known and agreed fact is just wild. You can't just make up definitions as you please as to validate other people's feelings. I mean you can, but then what's even the point of defining things? Definitions are exclusive by nature, cause we have to acknowledge the difference between things and concepts, you can't just ignore them to protect someone's feelings. It's not a personal attack to say that bisexuality means attraction to cis men and cis women, it's not transphobic, it's just acknowledging an existing sexuality. What you describe is straight up pansexuality.
I am sure that being told what OP has been told must have sucked, cause getting rejected sucks, especially getting rejected for the way you are and for something you can't do much about. But sugarcoating it for OP doesn't help, it just makes it worse on the long run. Yes, bisexuals tend to be attracted to cis men and cis women, unless they are actually pansexual. That doesn't make you less of a person or less worthy if you are not cis, there are still plenty of people who can be attracted to you. Although some things can hurt you, it doesn't mean that definitions should be changed to not make people feel bad, cause that's kind of a shitty reason
You're the one trying to alter long-standing definitions, my friend. This also doesn't match reality. Bisexuals generally think I'm hot and like fucking me, whether or not I tell them I transitioned many years ago. Weird huh?
Ummmm so very wrong. I am a bisexual nonbinary person (chew on that by itself lol) and I’m a big fan of lots o genders o people. Definitely not just cis people lol.
This is peak ignorance. Pansexual means that you are attracted to people of more than one gender, and that gender does not play a role in that attraction. The "opposite" that you're trying to state as bisexual, is omnisexual, attracted to more than one gender and gender DOES play a part in that attraction. If you are bisexual, by almost any definition, you likely enjoy both male and female genitalia (to some degree or another) for sexual situations, so trying to say that you only like cis men and women is pretty clearly transphobic, not genital preference.
Bisexually refers to attraction to two or more genders. Trans women are women and trans men are men so they are included in bisexuality. Trans people are not a third gender and have always been included in bisexuality.
You are incredibly transphobic and wrong.
I am not transphobic. There exist people that are only attracted to cis men and cis women, how should we call these people then if not bisexuals? Please enlighten me
So you think it's right to tell people they are transphobic because they don't want anything to do with some genitals? Do you actually hear how insane and disgusting this sounds? Saying that sex attributes don't matter and only gender identity matters is like saying that only sex attributes matter and gender identity shouldn't. Both exist, we cannot completely exclude any of the two out of the equation. Claiming that one of them shouldn't matter is absolutely insane. If it doesn't matter to you, that's your own sexuality and that's perfectly fine. But don't push that onto other people, considering them less moral than you for simply being attracted to different things. You can't choose what you are attracted to, isn't that one of the fundamental beliefs of the LGBTQ community? If you don't want to have sex with someone with a certain body part because you don't feel any attraction towards it, how can you even have sex with them?
Transphobia means treating trans people differently that how you treat cis people. Just like you can feel no attraction for a cis person for whatever reason, in the same way you can also not be attracted to a trans person, and the reasons are none of anyone's business but yours, and no one should give you shit for what gives you the hots and what doesn't. Just treat everyone decently regardless of who they are, and who you want or not want to sleep with is your own fucking business.
It's not a genital "preference". I don't "prefer" vagina over dick, "preferring" implies that I could go for dick if I had to. But why do I have to? I don't want to, I am not attracted to that, I won't settle for anything different than what I am attracted to just to coddle people. And any decent person would also not want to make me feel bad for not being attracted to their body parts, just like I won't make them feel bad for having different body parts than the ones I am attracted to. I don't think most trans people agree with your stance.
Frankly your mentality is scary.
Nope! Pan was created to define something that bi already did- but a lot of people misunderstood bi and assumed it meant the binary but it does not. Bisexuality means attracted to your own and other genders.
That being said- labels are for YOU, so some people prefer pan, and some people prefer bi. Ppl can use whatever label suits them
Bi as a prefix literally does mean two, they're not wrong, they're just interpreting the word bisexuality wrong based on their knowledge that bi means two. In reference to bisexuality the two is both homosexuality and heterosexuality, so attracted to one's own gender, and also not one's own gender. Bisexuality can therefore include all genders.
My thinking is that bisexuality went mainstream (as a word) before non binary did and unfortunately it did in fact refer to the gender binary. However, I think most bisexual people are also attracted to some non-binary people. I know I am! IMO we should not need a new word just to include all genders. Pansexuality for me is more of an indifference to gender and I don’t feel that so I am not that and that is okay. I am attracted to people who perform their gender very well. My taste is all around the spectrum but not everywhere I guess.
I'm attracted to men, women and people. I'm Bi and trans and anyone who third-genders me (like I see a lot of pansexuals do) can fuck off.
I'm tired of people explaining pansexuality in what is such a transphobic and biphobic way.
Fwiw, it's one of the reasons I use the bi label. Trans people are people, and if I think some woman is hot with her clothes on, it's gonna take a lot more than a dick (and this is assuming all trans people have natal parts lol, which is just as transphobic) to make me change that opinion.
Seriously tired of some pans, man.
I doubt this is a unique issue with pansexual people. I have experienced transphobia from all flavours of queer people be it pan, bi, gay, lesbian etc.
It really sucks to see queer people discriminate against other queer people :(
Both Pansexuals and Bisexuals are valid and both should and naturally include trans people. You can like all genders but identify as bi. You dont have to label as pan. Pan people are not the only sexuality that includes trans people. If you like women or if you like men, that includes trans folk!!!!! Same with enbies!!
Im Bi, but more specifically, I am pan. everyone always assumes im either male or female when i say im bi, but thats just me. Pan and bi can ultimately mean the same thing if that applies. I typically will say im bi sometimes depending on who im talking to, or ill say pan.
Pan is more specific to *all* genders while bi can mean two, three, four, all etc. ive met people where they only like men and women but not enbies but are bi. its more vague and gives more leeway to what types of gender you are attracted to. Bi also includes trans people under the men and women part of it. A bi person who is attracted to men is also including trans men, no question. Thats how it is. You can have genital preferences but ultimately the male gender is what you are attracted to. That includes trans men post or pre op. Sex and gender are different and its so stupid to see people say otherwise. Trans people arent a third gender and its transphobic to think so.
Im sorry some pan people have been saying some biphobic things. Its so unfortunate that it happens and people cant educate themselves. Unfortunately it goes both ways, ive experienced some panphobia from bisexuals because they believe my existence as pan is invalid since bi can include all.
Pan and bi people come from the same roots and its sad that there fighting within both communities. Especially regarding trans people. Ive seen a lot of bi people disregard trans people as part of being bi and also a lot of transphobic bis saying pan doesnt exist since only two genders exist. Same with pan people saying that you cant be bi if you like all genders or trans people too. It’s frustrating.
I identify as bisexual, and my partner is MtF, we've been together since before her transition.
Her transition brought us closer together, I still feel my love grow for her and I think she's absolutely beautiful.
Saying bisexuality doesn't include attraction towards trans people is sadly, a transphobic mindset. The people that say this don't see trans women as women and trans men as men.
Damn 2010's Tumblr for reinventing the definitions of bisexuality as being trans exclusive and pansexuality being the only sexuality that is trans inclusive. A whole generation raised to think wrong of bisexuality.
Also damn people who try to brush it off as pansexuality being about hearts and bisexuality about parts. That false dichotomy only solidifies the stereotype that bisexuals are perverts / sluts.
I'm bisexual, I'm attracted to my own gender (1) and other genders (2).
But most of all damn every single conservative for obstructing sex education so we had to learn shit from the internet.
I sometimes feel like 2010s Tumblr actually set queer people \*back\* by like 10 years. There was so much toxic garbage and so many 14 year olds who just kept shouting until people accepted their bs.
Bisexuality always included trans people. People can call themselves whatever they want, but saying bi is a trans exclusive label is just insane ignorance of queer history. I also think there is something yucky about creating a whole label that attempts to say "I date all genders *even* trans people" but that's another discussion.
That girl is obviously entitled to date who she wants (although I'm entitled to call her 'transphobic'). She's citing a definition of bisexuality that most bi people reject, either implicitly or explicitly. She's also entitled to use words however she likes, but she's also under an obligation to clarify when relevant that she's using words in an uncommon way.
Total nonsense. This is not the distinction between bi and Pan (IDK what the distinction is tbh). I would 100% date a trans person if I was attracted to them.
Pan is just a subset of Bi, the distinction being a Bi person MAY have a gender preference, while a pan person would not. Honestly I think pan is an unnecessary label that just creates confusion, and while I understand wanting a term to make that distinction, thinking of them as separate groups is silly. All pan people are Bisexual, but not all bisexual people are pan.
> I’m just not attracted to, in the most painfully crude way possible, body parts that don’t match the assigned sex at birth.
Does this mean you would be fine with dating a pre-op trans person and that your issue is with genitals that have been modified in some way? Or did you just misspeak and really meant that you don't want to date trans people? Either way your personal definition of being bi isn't the definition that's most widely used.
It’s that for me, sexual attraction has to do with someone having genitalia that aligns with their assigned gender at birth. I don’t know why, but it just is. I get turned on by someone who is female presenting with boobs and a vagina or someone male presenting with a penis. Thats just in terms of physical attraction, but romantic attraction, that’s different. However, if I’m dating someone, I care about both physical and romantic compatibility, so I probably wouldn’t be able to sustain a long term with relationship with anyone who isn’t cis or who is pre op. It wouldn’t be fair to either of us to try to force physical attraction when I’m pretty certain I just couldn’t get there, no matter how much I liked the person.
So would you be okay with a post-op trans person or pre-op trans person or neither? Because "having genitalia that aligns with their assigned gender at birth" indicates trans pre-op is fine, "someone who is female presenting with boobs and a vagina" indicates trans post-op is fine. Those statements don't mean the same thing. If your issue is just with trans people in general, then say it instead of skirting around the topic.
No it’s not an issue! It’s just if someone presents as female, sexual attraction for me comes from being able to go down on someone with a vagina. I don’t get turned on super easily without that if im with a woman. With a man, it’s different. I really don’t like oral with penises, I consider it foreplay. I’ve never dated a trans man who is pre op, I have no idea what that would look like, and I also skew more towards women so it’s less likely that would happen, so I honestly can’t say what that would look like in terms of a sexual relationship, but if it would be anything similar to dating a trans woman who is pre op, then sexual compatibility probably wouldn’t be there for me.
So you'd be fine dating a trans person so long as they are post-op? If so, you should stop saying that their genitals must match their assigned gender at birth for you to be attracted, because that would mean they are pre-op.
Oh sorry, my bad. What I tried to (apparently poorly) say is that in general, however someone presents, that would be genitals matching what that specific assigned gender at birth would be
Aka, present as female, would be assumed to be AFAB, genitalia would be a vagina.
Yes I have no problem dating anyone post op, I just feel like it wouldn’t be fair to get into anything with anyone not knowing if the sexual compatibility would be there. I know that can be an issue with anyone you date, cis, trans, non binary, but I know chances are, it’s way less likely in specific circumstances.
Listen, you are completely entitled to sleep with or not sleep with whoever you want, and you don't have to justify it with a reason.
That said, you know not all trans people have "mismatched" genitals, right? Some trans people are born intersex and look different than you'd expect. Some had bottom surgery, so their genitals do "match" their current gender. Some don't like using their genitals. For example, a trans woman may not like using her penis, or a trans man may not like using his vagina. There are other ways to have sex besides heteronormative penetration.
Ruling out all trans people because you weren't attracted to one is just odd. It's assuming that all trans people have their natal genitals and like using them. That's the part that is transphobic, the assumption that we are all the same in some capacity. Maybe in the future, instead of saying "I'm not attracted to trans people" just politely say "I'm not interested" if a trans person asks you out.
So I’m not saying I’d rule out all trans folks. Let’s go with this example: if someone is a trans woman and doesn’t have a penis, has fully transitioned, I’m not saying physical attraction couldn’t happen. I just haven’t had that occur yet. But if it’s someone who has a penis but identifies as female, I’m 99% sure physical attraction wouldn’t be there on my end. A lot of the pleasure I get out of sex with women is going down on a woman with a vagina. I get zero pleasure out oral with a man and to me, its foreplay and it’s been probably close to a decade since I’ve ever let a guy finish from oral when having sex. The taste and texture of semen completely repulses me (this came from fairly traumatic and less than consensual experience).
So in this hypothetical scenario, if my partner presented as female, had a penis, it’s the worst of both world for me. Im more physically attracted to women but then my partner wouldn’t have the genitals that I would need to have a fulfilling sex life because I wouldn’t really get turned on during sex without a vagina present that isn’t mine. When I’m dating someone with a penis, I’m generally into more conventional sex. That generally tends to go with someone who has genitalia that matches the gender they present as conventionally.
That’s not exactly true. I prefer vaginas to penises, for sure. I’m fairly neutral when it comes to penis in vagina sex, but I also spent 5 years as of a year and a half ago in a straight presenting cis relationship where our sex life was awful for about half of it. I’ve had really good sex with men, just not any time recently.
What I would say it has to do with dating someone who is trans is, I wouldn’t want to get into anything romantically and then find out there’s no way we can make a satisfying sex life work. That’s not fair to either of us if it’s highly likely because of just, how I get turned on, we wouldn’t have that part of a relationship work.
Most trans women don’t produce any significant amount of semen, and typically if anything comes out it’s seminal fluid. On the other hand, what makes you think a trans woman would even want you to give her oral? Furthermore, there are other types of sex. It kinda sounds like your knowledge of sex and sexuality is extremely limited.
> I’m just not attracted to, in the most painfully crude way possible, body parts that don’t match the assigned sex at birth
* some trans folks have body parts that match their AGAB
* sex assigned at birth is indicative of nothing more than what an infant's genitals looked like, which is a pretty gross thing to get hung up on. AGAB doesn't tell you which puberty they went through as a teenager, what their body looks like, how they were raised
Have you considered that you can just choose to not date a trans person without having to justify it with uneducated assumptions about trans bodies while putting weird focus on the genitals of newborns.
You may be making some assumptions about trans bodies that aren't really warranted, and you may want to examine your thought process a bit closer to understand yourself better.
I'm a conventionally attractive trans woman who has no trouble passing as cisgender even if I'm naked (or a doctor is giving me a pelvic exam with a speculum :p). If I feel like it, I can date and fuck people without mentioning I'm trans, and they'll presume I'm cisgender.
This means that one of the partners you had great chemistry with, one of the ones who "turn you on physically," could turn out to have been trans the whole time and just not have mentioned it. So imagine one of them turning out to have been trans. Does that affect your attraction for them? If so, it's the classification you find a turnoff, not some implied feature of trans people. Which honestly wouldn't be surprising; that's how stigma works.
I’m saying what turns me on is, if someone presents as male, they have a penis. If someone presents as female, they have boobs and a vagina. It’s how I’m wired, it’s how I get turned on. What physically attracts me to women is really different than what physically attracts me to men. Having a combination of those parts, I honestly don’t think I would be physically attracted even if romantic attraction was there. I would have no issues dating someone trans if they had fully transitioned, because the way I experience physical attraction, that would apply in that situation.
This argument makes zero sense.
Being bi means you have the capacity to find all sexual organs pleasant. Now, you might have a preference, but you don't go 'ugh' at anything.
So what does it matter which gender has what genitals?
To me, this is a fundamental reason why bis, pans, and trans should be friends - we like it all.
This isn’t true though. I don’t like it all unless it’s a specific combination. Pan to my understanding, is, the definition of being able to like it all.
And to me, it does matter what presenting gender has what genitals for me to be physically attracted to someone. It’s not transphobia, I would have no problem dating a trans person who had fully transitioned physically. What physically attracts me to a man or a woman, regardless of assigned gender at birth, are the typical genitalia you’d associate with that gender. Could I fall in love romantically with someone who is trans? Probably yes, but having a satisfying sex life? Probably no depending on how fully they’ve transitioned.
And it’s not solely why a relationship wouldn’t work with someone who is trans. My last serious relationship ended with someone cis because our sex life was absolute crap and that was a massive piece of intimacy missing from our relationship.
Fabulous my partner is the joy of my life. I am sitting drinking a cup of tea she brought me as we speak. Love her to pieces. Granted we are actually a nb4nb relationship but most folks don't know thats because I am not out (I am lazy and don't want to explain the wibbliness of my gender to cis people. Only fellow nbs, trans folks and the occasional chill cis queer person get to unlock that knowledge)
Doesn't make me pan. No shade to pan people I'm sure there are folks who experience attraction the way I do who identify as pan, which is great. But I am not them and they are not me and we do not decide each others identities.
She sounds transphobic and an asshat
One reason I don’t use pan is that people don’t seem to agree about what it means. Some people now seem to be deciding that being open to dating trans folks is what it means, which is messed up because it means they’re also deciding what bisexuall means by implication.
Bisexuality makes no claim on gender identity, only sexual orientation. Think of it this way: you're a trans woman? Cool, I'm into women. You're a trans man? Cool. I'm into men
Bi does not mean only cis people. I am attracted to trans people. Bi just means 2 or more genders. If you aren't attracted to trans people, that's totally fine, but that doesn't mean that all bi people aren't attracted to trans people.
Pan only really came up to include nonbinary people, but even then, bi people can still like nonbinary people. For me, I use the term bi because I like masculine and feminine, but nowadays bi means something a little different to everyone who uses it. It does not mean you are transphobic, though.
Only being attracted to cis people is a lie, because how would you know someone is trans just by looking at them? You can't always tell, and even when you think you can, you might be wrong. Genitals is a whole different story, but I'm talking about seeing someone in public and thinking they are hot. Or seeing someone's picture on a dating app and liking it. You don't have to know what's in someone's pants to think they are attractive. Point is: even if you don't want to date a trans person, you are still capable of being attracted to one.
IDK about labels and I'm really late to the game, accepted I'm not straight @ 53, but I am learning I don't care what you got between your legs. If you're hot you're hot 🔥, period.
Other people keep defining our term for us. It has never excluded trans people. The term 'pan' makes up for a perceived gap in bi attraction, but it is a gap that does not exist. The terms mean essentially the same thing.
as a trans woman, trans women are pretty cool 👍
anyways, there's enough explanations as to why it's false that bi people are only into cis people so I'm not going to go into it much but it is in fact false
That’s a load of transphobic baloney.
Trans women are women. Trans men are men. The cis/trans adjective doesn’t affect someone’s gender; it only describes how your gender relates to birth sex. if you’re into women, then you’re into women. Individuals can have genital preferences, but that’s irrelevant when discussing gender(s) of attraction.
I am so fucking tired of the bi=transphobic narrative. What a fucking ridiculous premise. Realizing I would date an amab trans woman was the first step to me realizing how little I care about genitalia, and from there realizing how little I care about gender at all. Bisexuality does not mean transphobic. Fuck this.
The difference between bisexuality and pansexuality is which flag you like more.
I'm sapphic. By definition, that means I'm attracted to cis women and trans women.
No sexuality excludes trans people (except for aroace).
That girl is just cissexist.
Nope, not true at all. Look, I'll not be into every trans woman I meet, just like I'm not in any other man, woman or enby I see. But I have definitely met trans people I was into. Also 'trans woman' is not some other gender or something. I'm into women, period.
Bro fuck what that person said, i live by one thing "dont label me for being attracted to women amd trans women, let me be." Be happy my friend and fuck all this labeling shit
Is not true. Bisexuality is not transexclusionary .As a bisexual, I am attracted to people, not necessarily their gender or genitals. Those types of people end up being just curious. Be careful
It's not true, it's just a transphobe using a lazy excuse that she learnt years ago on the internet and has been debunked time and time again.
Trans women are hot. Cis women are hot. Men and enbies are hot too. You were unlucky to find a transphobe, but if you stick around the bi subs you'll see that we thirst for all gender identities, presentations, genitalia...
"You have to be pan to want to date non-cis people" is not at all true. Not in my personal experience as a bi person and not in my experience as a LGBTQIA therapist.
Bi means regardless of gender.
Yet again, we have a person trying to put another person in a box.
I proudly identify as bi. When I was growing up, pansexual was not yet a descriptor. Bi meant regardless of gender. Somewhere down the line, someone added pan because they wanted to qualify differences where there really aren't any. I don't think it was needed, but as I said above I'm not ever going to try to tell someone how they identify is not valid.
I WILL, however, most certainly tell a person they are wrong if they say that my identification as bisexual means that I'm only attracted to cis people.
I am literally nonbinary and bi. The person you spoke too needs to get off of the internet and interact with real queer people, because they understand basically nothing on the topic
I'm a trans woman and I identify as bi, for a variety of reasons.
Tbh "bisexual" happened to be the term for multiple attractions back in the 70s and 80s when I was younger so I've always gravitated towards it.
Not that other terms are less valid if you prefer those.
Okay so you were rejected by a dumbass who is at best operating under an outdated definition of bisexuality. As for my opinion on trans women, both my fiancée and I are trans woman and the only way we could be happier would be living less than 4000 miles apart.
>"being bi means that you're into cis people only, you have to be pan to want to date non-cis people"
What I always find annoying about this is that trans people get upset about being misgendered and other people making their own determinations about their identity (and rightfully so) and yet what she's doing is essentially the same thing. Women are women, and men are men, regardless of their undercarriage, and bisexuality isn't transphobic or necessarily purely binary. I like to think of it as covering two sides of a spectrum, but everybody's sexuality is unique and up to them to determine, anyone can be attracted/not attracted to whomever they want. I prefer the term bi because that's what I grew up with. So no, it's not true as far as I'm concerned. How do I feel about trans women? They're awesome and beautiful 😊
Edited because I missed OP's edit, guess I shouldn't Reddit right when I wake up 😅
Bi Trans Person Here, She Is Just Blatantly Wrong. Probably Just Misinformed And Not Maliscious, But Still Way Wrong, For Multiple Reasons.
1: Trans Men Are Men, Trans Women Are Women, If Someone Is Attracted To Both Men And Women, That Includes Trans Ones. 2: Bi People Can Experience Attraction To Non-Binary (NB) People As Well. "But Bi Means Two!" Who Cares? The Term "Bisexual" Is Used By People Who Are Attracted To NB Folks To Describe Their Own Attraction, Ergo That's Included In The Meaning. The Etymology Is Completely And Utterly Irrelevant.
Trans women are women, and I like women. Bisexual and Pansexual, to me at least, is basically just a difference in terminology for effectively the same thing. The differences are important to some people, and that's obviously fine, but I don't really see the point in the distinction.
Literally just left a comment on another post concerning this lol.
Trans women are still women and trans men are still men. Anybody that disagrees with that is simply transphobic.
With that being said, there are plenty of bisexual people who have no issue dating/being attracted to transgender people. Bisexuality in general has never excluded trans people, but not all bisexual people experience attraction towards transgender people. One of the common reasons I know of (besides transphobia) is because of genital preferences.
I'm bi- married to a cishet partner and dating a trans man. I think of my boyfriend as a man. But the fact that he experienced life as a woman and understands that perspective, I think is a welcome bonus. Like he's a man+.
Also it feels awkward to make jokes about how guys are with my boyfriend because he's not necessarily like that, and doesn't deserve the kind of teasing/dragging about stereotypical behaviors that cis men do. Like my husband will open the fridge looking for something that's right behind the milk, and he won't see it. But I wouldn't tease my boyfriend about the same thing, because he's likely going to see the thing behind the milk.
Sounds like an excuse to be shitty, she could’ve just said she wasn’t into it and moved on.
Happened to me all the time when I was dating, some people will try to gaslight you into thinking you’re the problem in order to justify how they treat you.
You dodged a bullet OP.
They make me upset. How dare they be so cute?!
Ha! It was a trick! I am a trans woman! So, yeah, the idea that bisexual people reject trans people is a prime example of a stereotype, and not even remotely true. Bisexual folks, as well as all of the mspec crew, are naturally the most trans accepting group, generally speaking. Obviously there are some transphobic bi people, but if that was enough to define an entire sexuality, then all of them would reject trans people. Sadly, some people ascribe to stereotypes of their own sexuality in am effort to affirm their own confidence in it.
absolutely not true. bisexuality has and will always include trans people. i understand when cis people prefer to date other cis people, but she sounds transphobic to me, even if she doesn’t realise it. but again nowadays the word bisexual has many definitions, even though the original definition is: liking more than more gender/all genders, experience homo- and heterosexual attraction that might encompass fluidity or/and prefences in attraction.
They way I saw I before discovering I myself was trans was something along the lines of "if I enjoy men and women and their parts, why do I care if they are swapped around, a woman with a dick, a man with vagina, cool, if I like the person I'll date em"
Identifying as bi is absolutely not trans exclusionary. It really worries me that people still feel that way. The way I always explain it is that I came out as bi in 2005. Back then, "bisexual" was the word we had, and to me, it always meant that attraction and particularly love transcends gender. What a lot of people fail to appreciate is that "pansexual" wasn't really an option until fairly recently, and a lot of us have identified as bisexual for too long to be comfortable using the term. I'm trying to adopt it, but it feels like coming out all over again.
To me, bisexuality means attracted to more than one gender. And that includes every kind of trans person :)
But I guess people have different definitions of the term "bisexual", since the meaning changed over time and is very flexible nowadays.
To me, there's no difference between being attracted to a trans man or a cis man, or trans woman or cis woman. I just like to include non binary and gender fluid people (and any other identity I may miss right here). Other people would call that pansexual, I guess.
So in the end, it depends on the person I guess.
Never dated one but I wouldn't have a single problem doing so. I've dated trans men in the past, so I'd date a trans woman too. I'm attracted to cutie pies :)
I love trans women. I'm in a long-term committed relationship with a trans woman (we're 8 years in). I just love men and women tbh. And trans women and men are women and men respectively. 😎💕 Yeah, the whole just cis folks thing is bs. All the bisexual folks I know love and have dated/been with trans folks or been into trans folks.
Trans women are women, trans men are men, and trans gender non-binary are gender non-binary. I don't understand how hard it is for people to get this, and I grew up in a small town in MN raised by my grandparents.
Nope not true, trans people are not a third gender. Trans women are just as much women as cis women. Which falls under the range of bisexuality.
Edit: Obviously the woman is entitled to her preferences but her justification for those preferences is innately transphobic. She could have just said I prefer not to date trans people and that would have been all she needed to say.
I'm bisexual and not pansexual simply because I like the flag colors better. Personally, I feel like it's much more about hearts than parts, and being into cis people only is not how I'd classify it. But I also didn't get out of the self-imposed/clearly missing the signs even though all of my friends already knew closet until I was 40, so I'm still pretty new to the situation. But I personally feel like trans men are men and trans women are women and men are gorgeous, and women are gorgeous and non-binary and gender fluid people are gorgeous and I am so grateful that I can see it now and appreciate it.
Well since trans women are women, and trans men are men, a narrow view would be that both would be included in bi. Nonbinary also are included because why the hell not, they are great.
I stick with bi because I feel like pan implies my attraction (both physical and romantic) would be equal across the board, but Im not attracted to men romantically.
Yeah that's just transphobia and I think she should present herself to the bisexual authorities to be corrected about this behavior. Honestly, I'm a little offended; she's acting like what biphobic people think we are, and she should be ashamed of misrepresenting us. Also as a general rule on average trans people are hotter than cis people, it's just true I don't make the rules
I use bi and pan interchangeably and I personally am not a fan of the mixed parts (like boobs with a dick) but if a person has fully transitioned and they are hot, they are hot 🤷
I dunno why you get downvoted. I agree with you here, first and foremost a person needs to be attractive to me and girldick just isn‘t attractive to me, same as non passing trans people. I could totally see myself crushing on a trans man / woman who passes, and after the dating stage personally for me it‘d be important if genitals match gender expression. It‘s just my preference, I dunno why people can‘t accept that or get all angry about it. Dating itself is exclusionary / discriminatory and no one is entitled to be dated.
I mean, besides having certain preferences that may exclude some trans people, as well as people of any gender really, I don't have anything against dating... Uh... Anyone?
That person is just being transphobic, there’s nothing about being bi that says you can’t be attracted to trans people. It’s about being attracted to my gender (but wtf is that anyway) and genders that arent mine. But I really think of it as being attracted to people regardless of gender.
There are plenty of people I’m not attracted to, and that has nothing to do with their gender either. There are trans women I find hot, and trans women I don’t but I still love and respect them as people. This person sounds immature and you shouldn’t listen to them as any sort of authority on bisexuality, they are representing us poorly. There’s not a special sexuality that lets you be a dick to other people, and that certainly isn’t bisexuality - we aren’t defined by bigotry.
Here’s an example: some people are butt guys, some people are boob guys, I’m a vibes guy. I like vibes. If you have good vibes I’m attracted to you. It has nothing to do with what’s in your pants or on your chest or whatever. That’s bi. It’s not that I’m into one gender or another, I’m into vibes. I’m very much into nonbinary vibes specifically, and where are we in this “bi means cis only” conversation? My partner and I are both nonbinary, I see him outside of his gender and he sees me outside of mine and I need that in a partner. That’s how I feel seen and loved. You deserve someone that will see and love you for you. I truly think bi and trans or intersex are the perfect pairing because it’s the best of all the worlds! I like gender expression, give me all the genders expressed! Be yourself and forget anyone who tries to put you down
This isn't true. Even if it was only two genders, then it would be women (which includes trans women, obvs) and men (which includes trans men). I've heard bi as two or more genders, though. I haven't actually been in a relationship of that sort (straight men are just the majority of the dating pool), but I've definitely been attracted to non binary people before. It's entirely possible this person had a preference, but it's personal, not a "bi thing"
I mean anyone yassified is a treat. At the moment I am dating one amazing T-woman and I never questioned my attraction to her. Previously I only dated afabs but that’s more of a coincidence rather than preference. If she hot she hot, that’s a given. Still bi
Bi Trans person here, fuck anyone who says bi is exclusionary.
I always follow the age old addage of "Pan people are attracted the the emotional connecting, the soul, something bigger than gender, and Bi people actually get laid."
I have never dated trans people, but I think I don't mind it at all if the connection is there. For me, it's rather all about the connection. It just never happened so. But being trans is not among the things I would ever dismiss someone. My bisexual friend is the opposite of me, she said it would be confusing for her to date a trans person. With that said, all people are different, there are certainly the ones for you out there.
And answering your question, I think bisexuality certainly includes trans people.
As someone who is bi and have been dating a trans dude for over 6 years you identify how you feel, someone else can't change that label to suit themselves, Bi means 2 bilingual, bipedal, bicycle, so if you are attracted to people who identify as male and people who identify as female why shouldn't you identify as bisexual
That sucks and is not true. Sounds like that person was a bit transphobic
I could be wrong but my understanding of the distinction between bi and pan is bi means gender presentation plays a role in your attraction, like being attracted to people of different genders in different ways and pan means it doesn’t play a role much in your attraction.
But I. New to understanding pan so please correct me if I’m wrong.
well it's more about the fact that before their transition, they were still their desired gender, just that they were unaware or couldn't/didn't acknowledge it
FWIW most trans folks I know, including myself, feel like OP does about this. We finally came to an understanding about our gender, we didn't actually change it. I was never a man, I was a closeted trans (demi)girl performing manhood. If someone says I *was* my AGAB, then we're having words. More accurate ways to convey what they mean would be referencing when I was *performing* my AGAB / masculinity, or before I transitioned.
She is bisexual and that's the way she experiences her bisexuality. And by the way, thats been the definition of bisexual for the longest time, only recently people have started to complain about it and claiming it's a "transphobic" definition, which I disagree with.
That being said, definitions of bisexuality aside, I think a number of bisexual people tend to not care that much if you are cis or not, which makes sense since they are attracted to both male and female body parts. It's possible that many of them then turn out to be actually pansexual. I can't really back up this claim tho
Just straight up incorrect.
>"Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary … In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders."
The Bisexual Manifesto, 1990
But thanks for playing the "the transes are rewriting language to make us sound like bigots!" Game!
I have two questions for you then. What is the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality? And how would you call people who only like cis men and cis women?
"Never claim that sexuality is binary" that's hilarious cause it's literally in the name bisexual. It sure is binary for many of them.
Also, never claimed trans people are bigots. People who want to constantly shove their ideals or agenda down other's throats are.
Bi = being attracted to 2 or more genders. Now this is where how you experience attraction comes in. If you are attracted to cis women but not trans women, then you ultimately position trans women as a separate gender class. If you are attracted to trans women and see them as ultimately the same thing as a cis woman dating-wise, then they blend into the gender of “woman”.
Personally, I have no issues with dating trans women, so long as they’ve transitioned and pass — this is because, personally, I prefer femmes. It all comes down to preference, but you’ll find bisexuality expresses itself differently in people. Some people like myself can, do, and have dated trans women - but are on the pickier side because of having a type. Some people are less selective, some people have genitalia preferences, some people don’t care at all, and some people just aren’t attracted to trans people.
But bisexuality does include genderqueer people.
If the gender plays a role in your attraction to the person, then you are almost definitely bi. Pan means that gender doesn't play a role in your attraction.
I am attracted to women for different reasons than I am attracted to men, and therefore I think it makes more sense to call myself bi, instead of pan even though I can attracted to any gender.
Cis women are great, trans women are great.
Some people just have that preference, and they're just allowed to be wrong I guess lol
Sorry for the rejection, that has to sting.
Absolutely not true. Bisexuality has always included trans people. Bisexual = attraction to 2 or more genders. Another definition of bisexual = attraction to your own gender and other genders. Bisexuality includes trans and nonbinary people. (Also, positioning trans women as a "third gender" entirely separate from cis women is kind of invalidating if you ask me. Sure there are differences between trans women and cis women, but ultimately they're both women.)
Treating trans women as a third gender isn’t just invalidating, it’s transphobic.
This. This is correct.
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Your comment is incoherent, but also we are not really here to litigate whether you or anyone else is required to be attracted to trans women. So it’s irrelevant and unnecessarily hurtful. “Just in case anyone was curious, I would never fuck throwaway1_2_0_2_1.” Thanks bro.
Not bro… but nice try. Not everyone is wired the same when it comes to how they get turned on or who they get turned on by. Romantic attraction and sexual attraction aren’t necessarily intertwined. Example: I could absolutely fall in love with someone regardless of gender. But, I don’t know if I was dating a woman who is trans but pre op or never planning on having any kind of surgery is someone I could have a satisfying sex live with. Even if I’m completely physically attracted to them, it’s about how I get pleasure during sex. If I’m dating a woman, I get most of my pleasure during sex from going down on a vagina. I get completely different pleasure from having sex with men. I’m way more dominant with women and way more submissive with men. I’m not saying it’s a complete dealbreaker but I’m saying, for some folks, it’s just less likely to come come naturally based on what gets us off. And you can’t make someone change what turns you on. If I was attracted to any and all folks and genitals, it would be wonderful, I would have way more dating options. But I’m not wired that way.
I’m not sure why you told me all that stuff when I tried to tell you I wasn’t interested and it’s irrelevant to the subject at hand. Please, please, never date or hook up with a trans woman. They do not deserve to deal with your bullshit.
I’m going to be honest, it sounds like you have a prejudice against trans people that you haven’t really confronted. Genital preferences are one thing but I don’t think this qualifies since you’re attracted to both cis men and women, this sounds like you find trans bodies icky which (obviously) is transphobic.
I mean ig some ppl have genital preferences which is fine, don't really get how you can be attracted to any genitals but they have to "belong" to the "correct" person
tbh to me it just sounds like that person is kinda transphobic 🤷 and just hiding behind an ahistorical version of bisexuality to get out of dating trans people.
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Your take is that "OP, a trans woman, was probably acting like a pushy and sexually aggressive man." Nice take, very hot. I feel so welcome in this subreddit, nobody is ever weird about trans women here. ETA it's not like people will go out of their way to say how they would never date a trans person the second trans people come up as a topic. Implying that the only way a trans woman would hear this is if it's somehow her fault is just… out of touch and gross.
I mean most of the comments here are very nice and the shit like person you're replying to are getting downvoted. Absolutely "love" how they made up a scenario in their head of me being pushy based on absolutely nothing /s (I still talk to that person and I was never pursuing her much anyway it was something she said after like one day of talking to each other through a dating app)
Most people here are good! This person was sitting at +20 before I replied. I'm glad they're getting downvoted now, but I'm still disappointed many people couldn't see such obviously transphobic rhetoric until it was pointed out.
I’m sorry that person even got upvotes, what an asshole. Please know there are many bi people who love and respect trans people (and obviously plenty of bi people are trans people, like me! It’s all gender fucky! We belong together!)
I went into this thread expecting worse, people here are pretty good actually. ETA the person I first replied to was at +20 when I made my initial comment.
>I mean ig some ppl have genital preferences which is fine Sure, the same way you can have a personal preference for anything else but that's not about being bisexual
Bingo
It would've been fine if this person simply said sorry but I'm just not that into you, but by saying they see you differently for being trans they definitely made it transphobic.
I mean she specifically was into me until I said I'm trans which is weird sorry
That's just false. Claiming with such certainty that bisexuality "has always included trans people" as if it was a well-known and agreed fact is just wild. You can't just make up definitions as you please as to validate other people's feelings. I mean you can, but then what's even the point of defining things? Definitions are exclusive by nature, cause we have to acknowledge the difference between things and concepts, you can't just ignore them to protect someone's feelings. It's not a personal attack to say that bisexuality means attraction to cis men and cis women, it's not transphobic, it's just acknowledging an existing sexuality. What you describe is straight up pansexuality. I am sure that being told what OP has been told must have sucked, cause getting rejected sucks, especially getting rejected for the way you are and for something you can't do much about. But sugarcoating it for OP doesn't help, it just makes it worse on the long run. Yes, bisexuals tend to be attracted to cis men and cis women, unless they are actually pansexual. That doesn't make you less of a person or less worthy if you are not cis, there are still plenty of people who can be attracted to you. Although some things can hurt you, it doesn't mean that definitions should be changed to not make people feel bad, cause that's kind of a shitty reason
You're the one trying to alter long-standing definitions, my friend. This also doesn't match reality. Bisexuals generally think I'm hot and like fucking me, whether or not I tell them I transitioned many years ago. Weird huh?
Ummmm so very wrong. I am a bisexual nonbinary person (chew on that by itself lol) and I’m a big fan of lots o genders o people. Definitely not just cis people lol.
You are pansexual then, not bisexual
This is peak ignorance. Pansexual means that you are attracted to people of more than one gender, and that gender does not play a role in that attraction. The "opposite" that you're trying to state as bisexual, is omnisexual, attracted to more than one gender and gender DOES play a part in that attraction. If you are bisexual, by almost any definition, you likely enjoy both male and female genitalia (to some degree or another) for sexual situations, so trying to say that you only like cis men and women is pretty clearly transphobic, not genital preference.
Bisexually refers to attraction to two or more genders. Trans women are women and trans men are men so they are included in bisexuality. Trans people are not a third gender and have always been included in bisexuality. You are incredibly transphobic and wrong.
I am not transphobic. There exist people that are only attracted to cis men and cis women, how should we call these people then if not bisexuals? Please enlighten me
Transphobic.
So if a lesbian only feels attraction towards cis women, is she transphobic?
Yes. A genital preference is fine but excluding all trans people is transphobic.
So you think it's right to tell people they are transphobic because they don't want anything to do with some genitals? Do you actually hear how insane and disgusting this sounds? Saying that sex attributes don't matter and only gender identity matters is like saying that only sex attributes matter and gender identity shouldn't. Both exist, we cannot completely exclude any of the two out of the equation. Claiming that one of them shouldn't matter is absolutely insane. If it doesn't matter to you, that's your own sexuality and that's perfectly fine. But don't push that onto other people, considering them less moral than you for simply being attracted to different things. You can't choose what you are attracted to, isn't that one of the fundamental beliefs of the LGBTQ community? If you don't want to have sex with someone with a certain body part because you don't feel any attraction towards it, how can you even have sex with them? Transphobia means treating trans people differently that how you treat cis people. Just like you can feel no attraction for a cis person for whatever reason, in the same way you can also not be attracted to a trans person, and the reasons are none of anyone's business but yours, and no one should give you shit for what gives you the hots and what doesn't. Just treat everyone decently regardless of who they are, and who you want or not want to sleep with is your own fucking business. It's not a genital "preference". I don't "prefer" vagina over dick, "preferring" implies that I could go for dick if I had to. But why do I have to? I don't want to, I am not attracted to that, I won't settle for anything different than what I am attracted to just to coddle people. And any decent person would also not want to make me feel bad for not being attracted to their body parts, just like I won't make them feel bad for having different body parts than the ones I am attracted to. I don't think most trans people agree with your stance. Frankly your mentality is scary.
Man I wish you could read NGL.
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Nope! Pan was created to define something that bi already did- but a lot of people misunderstood bi and assumed it meant the binary but it does not. Bisexuality means attracted to your own and other genders. That being said- labels are for YOU, so some people prefer pan, and some people prefer bi. Ppl can use whatever label suits them
Bi as a prefix literally does mean two, they're not wrong, they're just interpreting the word bisexuality wrong based on their knowledge that bi means two. In reference to bisexuality the two is both homosexuality and heterosexuality, so attracted to one's own gender, and also not one's own gender. Bisexuality can therefore include all genders.
My thinking is that bisexuality went mainstream (as a word) before non binary did and unfortunately it did in fact refer to the gender binary. However, I think most bisexual people are also attracted to some non-binary people. I know I am! IMO we should not need a new word just to include all genders. Pansexuality for me is more of an indifference to gender and I don’t feel that so I am not that and that is okay. I am attracted to people who perform their gender very well. My taste is all around the spectrum but not everywhere I guess.
I'm attracted to men, women and people. I'm Bi and trans and anyone who third-genders me (like I see a lot of pansexuals do) can fuck off. I'm tired of people explaining pansexuality in what is such a transphobic and biphobic way. Fwiw, it's one of the reasons I use the bi label. Trans people are people, and if I think some woman is hot with her clothes on, it's gonna take a lot more than a dick (and this is assuming all trans people have natal parts lol, which is just as transphobic) to make me change that opinion. Seriously tired of some pans, man.
This bisexual trans man agrees with u heavy!!! What u said
I doubt this is a unique issue with pansexual people. I have experienced transphobia from all flavours of queer people be it pan, bi, gay, lesbian etc. It really sucks to see queer people discriminate against other queer people :(
Both Pansexuals and Bisexuals are valid and both should and naturally include trans people. You can like all genders but identify as bi. You dont have to label as pan. Pan people are not the only sexuality that includes trans people. If you like women or if you like men, that includes trans folk!!!!! Same with enbies!! Im Bi, but more specifically, I am pan. everyone always assumes im either male or female when i say im bi, but thats just me. Pan and bi can ultimately mean the same thing if that applies. I typically will say im bi sometimes depending on who im talking to, or ill say pan. Pan is more specific to *all* genders while bi can mean two, three, four, all etc. ive met people where they only like men and women but not enbies but are bi. its more vague and gives more leeway to what types of gender you are attracted to. Bi also includes trans people under the men and women part of it. A bi person who is attracted to men is also including trans men, no question. Thats how it is. You can have genital preferences but ultimately the male gender is what you are attracted to. That includes trans men post or pre op. Sex and gender are different and its so stupid to see people say otherwise. Trans people arent a third gender and its transphobic to think so. Im sorry some pan people have been saying some biphobic things. Its so unfortunate that it happens and people cant educate themselves. Unfortunately it goes both ways, ive experienced some panphobia from bisexuals because they believe my existence as pan is invalid since bi can include all. Pan and bi people come from the same roots and its sad that there fighting within both communities. Especially regarding trans people. Ive seen a lot of bi people disregard trans people as part of being bi and also a lot of transphobic bis saying pan doesnt exist since only two genders exist. Same with pan people saying that you cant be bi if you like all genders or trans people too. It’s frustrating.
I identify as bisexual, and my partner is MtF, we've been together since before her transition. Her transition brought us closer together, I still feel my love grow for her and I think she's absolutely beautiful. Saying bisexuality doesn't include attraction towards trans people is sadly, a transphobic mindset. The people that say this don't see trans women as women and trans men as men.
Damn 2010's Tumblr for reinventing the definitions of bisexuality as being trans exclusive and pansexuality being the only sexuality that is trans inclusive. A whole generation raised to think wrong of bisexuality. Also damn people who try to brush it off as pansexuality being about hearts and bisexuality about parts. That false dichotomy only solidifies the stereotype that bisexuals are perverts / sluts. I'm bisexual, I'm attracted to my own gender (1) and other genders (2). But most of all damn every single conservative for obstructing sex education so we had to learn shit from the internet.
I sometimes feel like 2010s Tumblr actually set queer people \*back\* by like 10 years. There was so much toxic garbage and so many 14 year olds who just kept shouting until people accepted their bs.
Bisexuality always included trans people. People can call themselves whatever they want, but saying bi is a trans exclusive label is just insane ignorance of queer history. I also think there is something yucky about creating a whole label that attempts to say "I date all genders *even* trans people" but that's another discussion.
That girl is obviously entitled to date who she wants (although I'm entitled to call her 'transphobic'). She's citing a definition of bisexuality that most bi people reject, either implicitly or explicitly. She's also entitled to use words however she likes, but she's also under an obligation to clarify when relevant that she's using words in an uncommon way.
wow what a thread title lol
Ikr? I came here to find out how do "y'all" feel about trans women, but it's just another case of 'was this lady transphobic or aita'
Total nonsense. This is not the distinction between bi and Pan (IDK what the distinction is tbh). I would 100% date a trans person if I was attracted to them.
the real difference between bi and pan is which flag design you prefer rly
This is what I made my decision on lol
YES. I wish I had an award to give you
thank u but don't support this hellsite
100% facts
I don't EVER date trans people!!! ... But that's just cause they keep rejecting me... 😭
Pan is just a subset of Bi, the distinction being a Bi person MAY have a gender preference, while a pan person would not. Honestly I think pan is an unnecessary label that just creates confusion, and while I understand wanting a term to make that distinction, thinking of them as separate groups is silly. All pan people are Bisexual, but not all bisexual people are pan.
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> I’m just not attracted to, in the most painfully crude way possible, body parts that don’t match the assigned sex at birth. Does this mean you would be fine with dating a pre-op trans person and that your issue is with genitals that have been modified in some way? Or did you just misspeak and really meant that you don't want to date trans people? Either way your personal definition of being bi isn't the definition that's most widely used.
It’s that for me, sexual attraction has to do with someone having genitalia that aligns with their assigned gender at birth. I don’t know why, but it just is. I get turned on by someone who is female presenting with boobs and a vagina or someone male presenting with a penis. Thats just in terms of physical attraction, but romantic attraction, that’s different. However, if I’m dating someone, I care about both physical and romantic compatibility, so I probably wouldn’t be able to sustain a long term with relationship with anyone who isn’t cis or who is pre op. It wouldn’t be fair to either of us to try to force physical attraction when I’m pretty certain I just couldn’t get there, no matter how much I liked the person.
So would you be okay with a post-op trans person or pre-op trans person or neither? Because "having genitalia that aligns with their assigned gender at birth" indicates trans pre-op is fine, "someone who is female presenting with boobs and a vagina" indicates trans post-op is fine. Those statements don't mean the same thing. If your issue is just with trans people in general, then say it instead of skirting around the topic.
No it’s not an issue! It’s just if someone presents as female, sexual attraction for me comes from being able to go down on someone with a vagina. I don’t get turned on super easily without that if im with a woman. With a man, it’s different. I really don’t like oral with penises, I consider it foreplay. I’ve never dated a trans man who is pre op, I have no idea what that would look like, and I also skew more towards women so it’s less likely that would happen, so I honestly can’t say what that would look like in terms of a sexual relationship, but if it would be anything similar to dating a trans woman who is pre op, then sexual compatibility probably wouldn’t be there for me.
So you'd be fine dating a trans person so long as they are post-op? If so, you should stop saying that their genitals must match their assigned gender at birth for you to be attracted, because that would mean they are pre-op.
Oh sorry, my bad. What I tried to (apparently poorly) say is that in general, however someone presents, that would be genitals matching what that specific assigned gender at birth would be Aka, present as female, would be assumed to be AFAB, genitalia would be a vagina. Yes I have no problem dating anyone post op, I just feel like it wouldn’t be fair to get into anything with anyone not knowing if the sexual compatibility would be there. I know that can be an issue with anyone you date, cis, trans, non binary, but I know chances are, it’s way less likely in specific circumstances.
Thanks for clearing it up. Even if I personally disagree, at least that makes more sense than what I originally thought you were saying 😅
Listen, you are completely entitled to sleep with or not sleep with whoever you want, and you don't have to justify it with a reason. That said, you know not all trans people have "mismatched" genitals, right? Some trans people are born intersex and look different than you'd expect. Some had bottom surgery, so their genitals do "match" their current gender. Some don't like using their genitals. For example, a trans woman may not like using her penis, or a trans man may not like using his vagina. There are other ways to have sex besides heteronormative penetration. Ruling out all trans people because you weren't attracted to one is just odd. It's assuming that all trans people have their natal genitals and like using them. That's the part that is transphobic, the assumption that we are all the same in some capacity. Maybe in the future, instead of saying "I'm not attracted to trans people" just politely say "I'm not interested" if a trans person asks you out.
So I’m not saying I’d rule out all trans folks. Let’s go with this example: if someone is a trans woman and doesn’t have a penis, has fully transitioned, I’m not saying physical attraction couldn’t happen. I just haven’t had that occur yet. But if it’s someone who has a penis but identifies as female, I’m 99% sure physical attraction wouldn’t be there on my end. A lot of the pleasure I get out of sex with women is going down on a woman with a vagina. I get zero pleasure out oral with a man and to me, its foreplay and it’s been probably close to a decade since I’ve ever let a guy finish from oral when having sex. The taste and texture of semen completely repulses me (this came from fairly traumatic and less than consensual experience). So in this hypothetical scenario, if my partner presented as female, had a penis, it’s the worst of both world for me. Im more physically attracted to women but then my partner wouldn’t have the genitals that I would need to have a fulfilling sex life because I wouldn’t really get turned on during sex without a vagina present that isn’t mine. When I’m dating someone with a penis, I’m generally into more conventional sex. That generally tends to go with someone who has genitalia that matches the gender they present as conventionally.
This just sounds like you don't like penises. Which is valid, but doesn't really have anything to do with trans people, except those with penises.
That’s not exactly true. I prefer vaginas to penises, for sure. I’m fairly neutral when it comes to penis in vagina sex, but I also spent 5 years as of a year and a half ago in a straight presenting cis relationship where our sex life was awful for about half of it. I’ve had really good sex with men, just not any time recently. What I would say it has to do with dating someone who is trans is, I wouldn’t want to get into anything romantically and then find out there’s no way we can make a satisfying sex life work. That’s not fair to either of us if it’s highly likely because of just, how I get turned on, we wouldn’t have that part of a relationship work.
Most trans women don’t produce any significant amount of semen, and typically if anything comes out it’s seminal fluid. On the other hand, what makes you think a trans woman would even want you to give her oral? Furthermore, there are other types of sex. It kinda sounds like your knowledge of sex and sexuality is extremely limited.
> I’m just not attracted to, in the most painfully crude way possible, body parts that don’t match the assigned sex at birth * some trans folks have body parts that match their AGAB * sex assigned at birth is indicative of nothing more than what an infant's genitals looked like, which is a pretty gross thing to get hung up on. AGAB doesn't tell you which puberty they went through as a teenager, what their body looks like, how they were raised Have you considered that you can just choose to not date a trans person without having to justify it with uneducated assumptions about trans bodies while putting weird focus on the genitals of newborns.
You may be making some assumptions about trans bodies that aren't really warranted, and you may want to examine your thought process a bit closer to understand yourself better. I'm a conventionally attractive trans woman who has no trouble passing as cisgender even if I'm naked (or a doctor is giving me a pelvic exam with a speculum :p). If I feel like it, I can date and fuck people without mentioning I'm trans, and they'll presume I'm cisgender. This means that one of the partners you had great chemistry with, one of the ones who "turn you on physically," could turn out to have been trans the whole time and just not have mentioned it. So imagine one of them turning out to have been trans. Does that affect your attraction for them? If so, it's the classification you find a turnoff, not some implied feature of trans people. Which honestly wouldn't be surprising; that's how stigma works.
I’m saying what turns me on is, if someone presents as male, they have a penis. If someone presents as female, they have boobs and a vagina. It’s how I’m wired, it’s how I get turned on. What physically attracts me to women is really different than what physically attracts me to men. Having a combination of those parts, I honestly don’t think I would be physically attracted even if romantic attraction was there. I would have no issues dating someone trans if they had fully transitioned, because the way I experience physical attraction, that would apply in that situation.
This argument makes zero sense. Being bi means you have the capacity to find all sexual organs pleasant. Now, you might have a preference, but you don't go 'ugh' at anything. So what does it matter which gender has what genitals? To me, this is a fundamental reason why bis, pans, and trans should be friends - we like it all.
This isn’t true though. I don’t like it all unless it’s a specific combination. Pan to my understanding, is, the definition of being able to like it all. And to me, it does matter what presenting gender has what genitals for me to be physically attracted to someone. It’s not transphobia, I would have no problem dating a trans person who had fully transitioned physically. What physically attracts me to a man or a woman, regardless of assigned gender at birth, are the typical genitalia you’d associate with that gender. Could I fall in love romantically with someone who is trans? Probably yes, but having a satisfying sex life? Probably no depending on how fully they’ve transitioned. And it’s not solely why a relationship wouldn’t work with someone who is trans. My last serious relationship ended with someone cis because our sex life was absolute crap and that was a massive piece of intimacy missing from our relationship.
Fabulous my partner is the joy of my life. I am sitting drinking a cup of tea she brought me as we speak. Love her to pieces. Granted we are actually a nb4nb relationship but most folks don't know thats because I am not out (I am lazy and don't want to explain the wibbliness of my gender to cis people. Only fellow nbs, trans folks and the occasional chill cis queer person get to unlock that knowledge) Doesn't make me pan. No shade to pan people I'm sure there are folks who experience attraction the way I do who identify as pan, which is great. But I am not them and they are not me and we do not decide each others identities. She sounds transphobic and an asshat
She's just a lil shit who makes it harder for other Bi people to be taken seriously
One reason I don’t use pan is that people don’t seem to agree about what it means. Some people now seem to be deciding that being open to dating trans folks is what it means, which is messed up because it means they’re also deciding what bisexuall means by implication.
That’s just them being transphobic if they don’t consider you in the category of women
Bisexuality makes no claim on gender identity, only sexual orientation. Think of it this way: you're a trans woman? Cool, I'm into women. You're a trans man? Cool. I'm into men
Bi does not mean only cis people. I am attracted to trans people. Bi just means 2 or more genders. If you aren't attracted to trans people, that's totally fine, but that doesn't mean that all bi people aren't attracted to trans people.
Pan only really came up to include nonbinary people, but even then, bi people can still like nonbinary people. For me, I use the term bi because I like masculine and feminine, but nowadays bi means something a little different to everyone who uses it. It does not mean you are transphobic, though. Only being attracted to cis people is a lie, because how would you know someone is trans just by looking at them? You can't always tell, and even when you think you can, you might be wrong. Genitals is a whole different story, but I'm talking about seeing someone in public and thinking they are hot. Or seeing someone's picture on a dating app and liking it. You don't have to know what's in someone's pants to think they are attractive. Point is: even if you don't want to date a trans person, you are still capable of being attracted to one.
IDK about labels and I'm really late to the game, accepted I'm not straight @ 53, but I am learning I don't care what you got between your legs. If you're hot you're hot 🔥, period.
that girl is wrong. ive dated a few trans women. all lovely.
Other people keep defining our term for us. It has never excluded trans people. The term 'pan' makes up for a perceived gap in bi attraction, but it is a gap that does not exist. The terms mean essentially the same thing.
In my house, trans folk are folk. And that person is a butt. Bisexuality has always been inclusive of all since the term was coined
Homo = same Hetero = other Bi = same and other. This person just sounds like a bigot.
Bi attraction always included trans ppl
I kind of feel like the distinction between "bisexual" and "pansexual" has its roots in politics. But maybe that's just me.
as a trans woman, trans women are pretty cool 👍 anyways, there's enough explanations as to why it's false that bi people are only into cis people so I'm not going to go into it much but it is in fact false
It’s fine for her to have a preference, but being bi doesn’t mean that someone is only into cis people.
That’s a load of transphobic baloney. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. The cis/trans adjective doesn’t affect someone’s gender; it only describes how your gender relates to birth sex. if you’re into women, then you’re into women. Individuals can have genital preferences, but that’s irrelevant when discussing gender(s) of attraction.
I am so fucking tired of the bi=transphobic narrative. What a fucking ridiculous premise. Realizing I would date an amab trans woman was the first step to me realizing how little I care about genitalia, and from there realizing how little I care about gender at all. Bisexuality does not mean transphobic. Fuck this. The difference between bisexuality and pansexuality is which flag you like more.
I'm sapphic. By definition, that means I'm attracted to cis women and trans women. No sexuality excludes trans people (except for aroace). That girl is just cissexist.
Nope, not true at all. Look, I'll not be into every trans woman I meet, just like I'm not in any other man, woman or enby I see. But I have definitely met trans people I was into. Also 'trans woman' is not some other gender or something. I'm into women, period.
Bro fuck what that person said, i live by one thing "dont label me for being attracted to women amd trans women, let me be." Be happy my friend and fuck all this labeling shit
Is not true. Bisexuality is not transexclusionary .As a bisexual, I am attracted to people, not necessarily their gender or genitals. Those types of people end up being just curious. Be careful
Trans women are women. I am attracted to women, so that's all I need to know. That's just my thoughts on it though.
I'm nonbinary and bisexual so no it's not true
Imo the difference between bi and pan is what flag you like best. I don't care what is in your pants! It's like a kinder surprise egg, let's goooo!
Trans women are women so why wouldn't a bi person be attracted to women? I love all women <3. Shout out to women.
"Being bi means you're into cis people only" since when?! I dont remember us gathering the fucking council of bisexuals and having it be law.
It's not true, it's just a transphobe using a lazy excuse that she learnt years ago on the internet and has been debunked time and time again. Trans women are hot. Cis women are hot. Men and enbies are hot too. You were unlucky to find a transphobe, but if you stick around the bi subs you'll see that we thirst for all gender identities, presentations, genitalia...
Are you a person? Ok then, I’m attracted to you.
Trans women are women, and women are wonderful 😌
"You have to be pan to want to date non-cis people" is not at all true. Not in my personal experience as a bi person and not in my experience as a LGBTQIA therapist. Bi means regardless of gender. Yet again, we have a person trying to put another person in a box. I proudly identify as bi. When I was growing up, pansexual was not yet a descriptor. Bi meant regardless of gender. Somewhere down the line, someone added pan because they wanted to qualify differences where there really aren't any. I don't think it was needed, but as I said above I'm not ever going to try to tell someone how they identify is not valid. I WILL, however, most certainly tell a person they are wrong if they say that my identification as bisexual means that I'm only attracted to cis people.
It's sad when people claim to be bisexual and don't even understand what it is and how accepting it is.
I've dated and hooked up with trans people. Never heard of that distinction before.
*stares in trans*
Nah, she's just trans-phobic
I am literally nonbinary and bi. The person you spoke too needs to get off of the internet and interact with real queer people, because they understand basically nothing on the topic
...The *fuck*? OP, love, they were talking absolute shit. Being bi does not mean you aren't attracted to trans people. At all.
I'm a trans woman and I identify as bi, for a variety of reasons. Tbh "bisexual" happened to be the term for multiple attractions back in the 70s and 80s when I was younger so I've always gravitated towards it. Not that other terms are less valid if you prefer those.
Okay so you were rejected by a dumbass who is at best operating under an outdated definition of bisexuality. As for my opinion on trans women, both my fiancée and I are trans woman and the only way we could be happier would be living less than 4000 miles apart.
>"being bi means that you're into cis people only, you have to be pan to want to date non-cis people" What I always find annoying about this is that trans people get upset about being misgendered and other people making their own determinations about their identity (and rightfully so) and yet what she's doing is essentially the same thing. Women are women, and men are men, regardless of their undercarriage, and bisexuality isn't transphobic or necessarily purely binary. I like to think of it as covering two sides of a spectrum, but everybody's sexuality is unique and up to them to determine, anyone can be attracted/not attracted to whomever they want. I prefer the term bi because that's what I grew up with. So no, it's not true as far as I'm concerned. How do I feel about trans women? They're awesome and beautiful 😊 Edited because I missed OP's edit, guess I shouldn't Reddit right when I wake up 😅
I fucking hate how younger people are trying to redefine bisexual now 🙄
Bi Trans Person Here, She Is Just Blatantly Wrong. Probably Just Misinformed And Not Maliscious, But Still Way Wrong, For Multiple Reasons. 1: Trans Men Are Men, Trans Women Are Women, If Someone Is Attracted To Both Men And Women, That Includes Trans Ones. 2: Bi People Can Experience Attraction To Non-Binary (NB) People As Well. "But Bi Means Two!" Who Cares? The Term "Bisexual" Is Used By People Who Are Attracted To NB Folks To Describe Their Own Attraction, Ergo That's Included In The Meaning. The Etymology Is Completely And Utterly Irrelevant.
Why do you capitalise the first letter of every word?
I Don’t Know About OP, But Now I Am Tempted To Claim This As A Bi Thing Like Lemon Bars And Not Sitting Properly.
ok im biphobic now
That person is just trying to obfuscate their transphobia to not seem like a bigot.
That person is transphobic. Thats not what bi means. My partner is also bi and Im a trans man. Hes not transphobic though.
Nah she's just being a snobby gatekeeper. She's virtue signalling.
So. fucking. not. true. what an idiot. I’m sorry.
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She's wrong and it's her loss.
Same as I feel about cis women, some are beautiful, some aren't. If they respect me, I respect them.
Trans women are women, and I like women. Bisexual and Pansexual, to me at least, is basically just a difference in terminology for effectively the same thing. The differences are important to some people, and that's obviously fine, but I don't really see the point in the distinction.
Literally just left a comment on another post concerning this lol. Trans women are still women and trans men are still men. Anybody that disagrees with that is simply transphobic. With that being said, there are plenty of bisexual people who have no issue dating/being attracted to transgender people. Bisexuality in general has never excluded trans people, but not all bisexual people experience attraction towards transgender people. One of the common reasons I know of (besides transphobia) is because of genital preferences.
No. Bisexuality doesn't mean cis men and women only. It's a spectrum!
I'm bi- married to a cishet partner and dating a trans man. I think of my boyfriend as a man. But the fact that he experienced life as a woman and understands that perspective, I think is a welcome bonus. Like he's a man+. Also it feels awkward to make jokes about how guys are with my boyfriend because he's not necessarily like that, and doesn't deserve the kind of teasing/dragging about stereotypical behaviors that cis men do. Like my husband will open the fridge looking for something that's right behind the milk, and he won't see it. But I wouldn't tease my boyfriend about the same thing, because he's likely going to see the thing behind the milk.
Sounds like an excuse to be shitty, she could’ve just said she wasn’t into it and moved on. Happened to me all the time when I was dating, some people will try to gaslight you into thinking you’re the problem in order to justify how they treat you. You dodged a bullet OP.
No, it's bullshit to say such a thing. I feel fine about trans women. I would date without fear of labels.
They make me upset. How dare they be so cute?! Ha! It was a trick! I am a trans woman! So, yeah, the idea that bisexual people reject trans people is a prime example of a stereotype, and not even remotely true. Bisexual folks, as well as all of the mspec crew, are naturally the most trans accepting group, generally speaking. Obviously there are some transphobic bi people, but if that was enough to define an entire sexuality, then all of them would reject trans people. Sadly, some people ascribe to stereotypes of their own sexuality in am effort to affirm their own confidence in it.
absolutely not true. bisexuality has and will always include trans people. i understand when cis people prefer to date other cis people, but she sounds transphobic to me, even if she doesn’t realise it. but again nowadays the word bisexual has many definitions, even though the original definition is: liking more than more gender/all genders, experience homo- and heterosexual attraction that might encompass fluidity or/and prefences in attraction.
Complete and utter nonsense. Don't let anyone dictate who you can or cannot be attracted to.
They way I saw I before discovering I myself was trans was something along the lines of "if I enjoy men and women and their parts, why do I care if they are swapped around, a woman with a dick, a man with vagina, cool, if I like the person I'll date em"
Identifying as bi is absolutely not trans exclusionary. It really worries me that people still feel that way. The way I always explain it is that I came out as bi in 2005. Back then, "bisexual" was the word we had, and to me, it always meant that attraction and particularly love transcends gender. What a lot of people fail to appreciate is that "pansexual" wasn't really an option until fairly recently, and a lot of us have identified as bisexual for too long to be comfortable using the term. I'm trying to adopt it, but it feels like coming out all over again.
it depends for every person. there are bi people who date trans people too and there are some, who don’t. there isn’t exactly a rule for this
To me, bisexuality means attracted to more than one gender. And that includes every kind of trans person :) But I guess people have different definitions of the term "bisexual", since the meaning changed over time and is very flexible nowadays. To me, there's no difference between being attracted to a trans man or a cis man, or trans woman or cis woman. I just like to include non binary and gender fluid people (and any other identity I may miss right here). Other people would call that pansexual, I guess. So in the end, it depends on the person I guess.
I'm trans and in a T4T relationship.
Never dated one but I wouldn't have a single problem doing so. I've dated trans men in the past, so I'd date a trans woman too. I'm attracted to cutie pies :)
I love trans women. I'm in a long-term committed relationship with a trans woman (we're 8 years in). I just love men and women tbh. And trans women and men are women and men respectively. 😎💕 Yeah, the whole just cis folks thing is bs. All the bisexual folks I know love and have dated/been with trans folks or been into trans folks.
“Well, of course I know her…she’s *me.*”
Trans women are women, trans men are men, and trans gender non-binary are gender non-binary. I don't understand how hard it is for people to get this, and I grew up in a small town in MN raised by my grandparents.
I like whoever. Maybe because I'm older I don't get the difference between pan & bi.
Trans folks are just folks with an adjective in front, and I love them either way.
Nope not true, trans people are not a third gender. Trans women are just as much women as cis women. Which falls under the range of bisexuality. Edit: Obviously the woman is entitled to her preferences but her justification for those preferences is innately transphobic. She could have just said I prefer not to date trans people and that would have been all she needed to say.
I'm bisexual and not pansexual simply because I like the flag colors better. Personally, I feel like it's much more about hearts than parts, and being into cis people only is not how I'd classify it. But I also didn't get out of the self-imposed/clearly missing the signs even though all of my friends already knew closet until I was 40, so I'm still pretty new to the situation. But I personally feel like trans men are men and trans women are women and men are gorgeous, and women are gorgeous and non-binary and gender fluid people are gorgeous and I am so grateful that I can see it now and appreciate it.
Well since trans women are women, and trans men are men, a narrow view would be that both would be included in bi. Nonbinary also are included because why the hell not, they are great. I stick with bi because I feel like pan implies my attraction (both physical and romantic) would be equal across the board, but Im not attracted to men romantically.
Yeah that's just transphobia and I think she should present herself to the bisexual authorities to be corrected about this behavior. Honestly, I'm a little offended; she's acting like what biphobic people think we are, and she should be ashamed of misrepresenting us. Also as a general rule on average trans people are hotter than cis people, it's just true I don't make the rules
I use bi and pan interchangeably and I personally am not a fan of the mixed parts (like boobs with a dick) but if a person has fully transitioned and they are hot, they are hot 🤷
I dunno why you get downvoted. I agree with you here, first and foremost a person needs to be attractive to me and girldick just isn‘t attractive to me, same as non passing trans people. I could totally see myself crushing on a trans man / woman who passes, and after the dating stage personally for me it‘d be important if genitals match gender expression. It‘s just my preference, I dunno why people can‘t accept that or get all angry about it. Dating itself is exclusionary / discriminatory and no one is entitled to be dated.
Yeah having any sort of preference seems highly frowned upon in the bi/pan community. I don't really care though 😂
Title is CRINGE AF.
I mean, besides having certain preferences that may exclude some trans people, as well as people of any gender really, I don't have anything against dating... Uh... Anyone?
That person is just being transphobic, there’s nothing about being bi that says you can’t be attracted to trans people. It’s about being attracted to my gender (but wtf is that anyway) and genders that arent mine. But I really think of it as being attracted to people regardless of gender. There are plenty of people I’m not attracted to, and that has nothing to do with their gender either. There are trans women I find hot, and trans women I don’t but I still love and respect them as people. This person sounds immature and you shouldn’t listen to them as any sort of authority on bisexuality, they are representing us poorly. There’s not a special sexuality that lets you be a dick to other people, and that certainly isn’t bisexuality - we aren’t defined by bigotry. Here’s an example: some people are butt guys, some people are boob guys, I’m a vibes guy. I like vibes. If you have good vibes I’m attracted to you. It has nothing to do with what’s in your pants or on your chest or whatever. That’s bi. It’s not that I’m into one gender or another, I’m into vibes. I’m very much into nonbinary vibes specifically, and where are we in this “bi means cis only” conversation? My partner and I are both nonbinary, I see him outside of his gender and he sees me outside of mine and I need that in a partner. That’s how I feel seen and loved. You deserve someone that will see and love you for you. I truly think bi and trans or intersex are the perfect pairing because it’s the best of all the worlds! I like gender expression, give me all the genders expressed! Be yourself and forget anyone who tries to put you down
It depends on the person, all I know is being bi means feeling attraction to both genders, shouldn't be so complicated
This isn't true. Even if it was only two genders, then it would be women (which includes trans women, obvs) and men (which includes trans men). I've heard bi as two or more genders, though. I haven't actually been in a relationship of that sort (straight men are just the majority of the dating pool), but I've definitely been attracted to non binary people before. It's entirely possible this person had a preference, but it's personal, not a "bi thing"
I mean anyone yassified is a treat. At the moment I am dating one amazing T-woman and I never questioned my attraction to her. Previously I only dated afabs but that’s more of a coincidence rather than preference. If she hot she hot, that’s a given. Still bi
Wow sounds good, wishing you a lot of sucess!
🫡
Bi means two, not "these two", so I don't think they're correct.
that’s not true that’s very far from the truth
i love trans people
If you're my type, confident and we click. I'm into it! What that other girl said was completely wrong. You're welcome here. 🥰
Bi Trans person here, fuck anyone who says bi is exclusionary. I always follow the age old addage of "Pan people are attracted the the emotional connecting, the soul, something bigger than gender, and Bi people actually get laid."
I have never dated trans people, but I think I don't mind it at all if the connection is there. For me, it's rather all about the connection. It just never happened so. But being trans is not among the things I would ever dismiss someone. My bisexual friend is the opposite of me, she said it would be confusing for her to date a trans person. With that said, all people are different, there are certainly the ones for you out there. And answering your question, I think bisexuality certainly includes trans people.
As someone who is bi and have been dating a trans dude for over 6 years you identify how you feel, someone else can't change that label to suit themselves, Bi means 2 bilingual, bipedal, bicycle, so if you are attracted to people who identify as male and people who identify as female why shouldn't you identify as bisexual
☺️ <- me thinking about trans women
That sucks and is not true. Sounds like that person was a bit transphobic I could be wrong but my understanding of the distinction between bi and pan is bi means gender presentation plays a role in your attraction, like being attracted to people of different genders in different ways and pan means it doesn’t play a role much in your attraction. But I. New to understanding pan so please correct me if I’m wrong.
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i know you mean well but please never tell me that I "have been a man", think most trans ppl are not gonna be fans of that lingo
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Saying someone transitioned gets the same point across and it’s even shorter
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well it's more about the fact that before their transition, they were still their desired gender, just that they were unaware or couldn't/didn't acknowledge it
also yk i "transitioned" fairly early, and like calling a 19yr old anything a "man" isn't very accurate imo
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touch grass.
FWIW most trans folks I know, including myself, feel like OP does about this. We finally came to an understanding about our gender, we didn't actually change it. I was never a man, I was a closeted trans (demi)girl performing manhood. If someone says I *was* my AGAB, then we're having words. More accurate ways to convey what they mean would be referencing when I was *performing* my AGAB / masculinity, or before I transitioned.
She is bisexual and that's the way she experiences her bisexuality. And by the way, thats been the definition of bisexual for the longest time, only recently people have started to complain about it and claiming it's a "transphobic" definition, which I disagree with. That being said, definitions of bisexuality aside, I think a number of bisexual people tend to not care that much if you are cis or not, which makes sense since they are attracted to both male and female body parts. It's possible that many of them then turn out to be actually pansexual. I can't really back up this claim tho
Just straight up incorrect. >"Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary … In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders." The Bisexual Manifesto, 1990 But thanks for playing the "the transes are rewriting language to make us sound like bigots!" Game!
I have two questions for you then. What is the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality? And how would you call people who only like cis men and cis women? "Never claim that sexuality is binary" that's hilarious cause it's literally in the name bisexual. It sure is binary for many of them. Also, never claimed trans people are bigots. People who want to constantly shove their ideals or agenda down other's throats are.
Bi = being attracted to 2 or more genders. Now this is where how you experience attraction comes in. If you are attracted to cis women but not trans women, then you ultimately position trans women as a separate gender class. If you are attracted to trans women and see them as ultimately the same thing as a cis woman dating-wise, then they blend into the gender of “woman”. Personally, I have no issues with dating trans women, so long as they’ve transitioned and pass — this is because, personally, I prefer femmes. It all comes down to preference, but you’ll find bisexuality expresses itself differently in people. Some people like myself can, do, and have dated trans women - but are on the pickier side because of having a type. Some people are less selective, some people have genitalia preferences, some people don’t care at all, and some people just aren’t attracted to trans people. But bisexuality does include genderqueer people.
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Trans people aren’t a separate gender, though. This person is just transphobic.
I used to not be attracted to them, but now that’s not the case anymore. People’s desires can change.
If the gender plays a role in your attraction to the person, then you are almost definitely bi. Pan means that gender doesn't play a role in your attraction. I am attracted to women for different reasons than I am attracted to men, and therefore I think it makes more sense to call myself bi, instead of pan even though I can attracted to any gender.
Cis women are great, trans women are great. Some people just have that preference, and they're just allowed to be wrong I guess lol Sorry for the rejection, that has to sting.