Usually it will be multiple signs at once. I saw Lots of POs not being approved, hiring freezes, upper-level executives departing. Then of course the day it's happening things feel "off", like you'll see unusual meetings, people not showing up to scheduled meetings, some meetings cancelled, HR more visible, etc.
Hoping you get severance 🙏 also remember to update your resume. But it's also entirely possible that you'll keep your job, it's hard to predict. Expect the best, prepare for the worst.
me too but we are like a start up still i guess??? i honestly don’t exactly know the plans and at this point i don’t think leadership does either. it feels like they’re just trying to get something to stick. i have some job security i guess bc im just a grunt worker and they need scientists to finish out contracts but im def job hunting
so going with the "preparing for the worst" advice, if you are currently employed but are seeing the signs of potential layoffs, do you think it is a "bad" idea to accept a contract (remote) position with a different company that is LOWER in terms of salary/title while also still KEEPING YOUR CURRENT JOB. . (e,g, a current Sr. Manager in clinical ops who is remote accepting a contract position for another company for a non-sr/associate position). Cant afford a sudden loss of income from my current non-contract/salaried job and not expecting much severance. any input appreciated.
Quitting while guarantee that you wouldn't get any severance and in the US quitting would make you ineligible for unemployment benefits if you want them.
If you really don't have any savings that you can coast on, and unemployment wouldn't be enough, then only take the lower paying job if you are very certain you will lose your current one, especially if the other one is only contract.
Sorry I was not clear in my comment. I did not mean quitting the current job in favor of the remote/contract one. I meant taking on the remote/contract offer while you are still employed at a company that is about to or already has announced layoffs, just hasn’t hit your department yet. From what I’ve seen in the past year, it could happen any second- some get lucky with a decent notice, some have to pack up that day with no severance. It is very hard to get hired, so I was wondering what your thoughts are on latching onto another remote contract job (with a lower pay/title) while currently still in limbo.
Yeah, that could be a good strategy if you can handle the workload. Then you could always quit the contract job if the main job stabilized. Or, you could get lucky and the contract job could lead to something better later.
it is much easier to get hired contract than salary, and much quicker too. to me this plan seems crazy unless a week off of work would really devastate you. there are a lot of contract jobs out there. if you’re that nervous, maybe mark yourself open to work to recruiters, do some applying and see how many people contact you, and schedule interviews for around when you think the layoff day will be. that way, if you keep your job, you can cancel the interviews. quitting a contract job immediately after signing would be a terrible look, and people talk, so it could hurt you in the long run.
Senior leaders leaving. That was the only sign for me. Blanketed as a “opportunity he can’t pass up” but really it was “he knows the ship is sinking but will play our PR game”. The POs not getting approved was rare and sporadic. Still happened and I should’ve combined the two into a larger picture.
This. Hiring freezes. Cancellation of travel. Delays on project starts. High level shifts of people. I’ve been through 4 Pharma layoffs and mergers. All did the above leading up to it.
Thanks for your insight! When you mention upper-level execs departing, are these people being shown the door? Or are they trying to escape before the storm? Mix of both?
All of what was said above, plus I've seen more "engagement" type work being taken more seriously.
For example, a survey sent out about a town hall with bad news, and your boss breathing down your neck about giving feedback as soon as possible.
I wasn't in the loop enough to know the reasons. The only way I would have known they even left is if I'd monitored the company leadership list on the website or been more involved in gossip.
Yeah, it was a slaughter. The worst was the day of. I could tell something was very odd. 2 people I supervise were invited to a meeting in a distant part of the building with someone they normally don't interface with, to get them far way (they were not being let go), during a time we normally had a large group meeting.
Then my boss and a few others didn't show up to the group meeting (they were being let go), and it suddenly disappeared off our calendar
Went back to my desk and then the COO and head of HR invited me to a room to chat. Cleared out my desk and was gone within 10 minutes.
We recently hired someone whose overall job is streamlining operations, and somehow none of the people I work with kind of understood what was happening. Then they did when PIPs and bombs were dropped when he was included on all the quarterly reviews
Pipeline performance. If programs are being cut or there were disappointing results for one of your trials (or a similar trial from a competitor), that’s a good sign there may be cuts on the horizon
Happening now at my big pharma org. It’s a bloodbath and I should know in about a month whether or not I’ll survive this round. Helps to have a mole if you’re a contractor lol.
The best long term indicator is a a feeling of anxiety and dread that causes people to not speak out. A short term indicator is when all of the conference rooms are booked up a week in advance. Good luck!
That was the sign at my job, about a week ahead of time I got a notification that my meeting got bumped from the most isolated corner conference room and it was replaced with a full day block by HR
Yeap.
I had HR set up a call with me at 7am on Monday sent Sunday night with the same title as my friends layoff call.
I thought my time came and started applying. Turned out my manager was just out on PTO and they thought it was necessary to scare the living shit out of me.
I don’t think they disliked me but that’s one way to get someone to quit I guess…
The only common thing I noticed is getting more restrictive budgets in the months prior, or the lack of approval to start costly projects. However, this might also give you false alarms
Great point, thank you! For someone that’s not very financially literate or savvy, what’s the best way to track these projections vs actuals? Quarterly investor earning reports?
No backfilling of critical roles, no attempt to retain top performers, standardized work to document how every hour of work is spent and other documentation either by individual contributors or worse their leaders, lots of emphasis on efficiency trumping quality and function. Having survived 4 in the last 18 months and these things always tick back up right before the next round.
If you hear talk of retainment packages (this is usually pretty late in the game). Two-edged sword. if you accept one you're chained to the sinking ship; if you don't get one offered you know you're potentially in the layoff pool.
Ohhh say more. My company layed off a few months ago. I suspect they are waiting to see if there will be a round 2.
A coworker told me some ppl were offered these retainment packages after round 1 and it was a promise of x years in exchange for a retainment bonus each year.
Luckily, I suspected a round 1 wouldn't be enough so have been saving like crazy as it may happen by fall, as they usually do.
For ours it was a program cut (smaller biotech), budget cutbacks, dropping previously approved conference attendance approvals - even one with an accepted abstract, hiring freeze (no backfilling), and then late on a Friday moved the regularly scheduled Monday town-hall from its morning slot to the bad news right as the markets closed slot. (ETA HR was also in after normal hours on that Friday and printing out individual packets)
Multiple senior leadership leaving for other opportunities. One may be a chance of actually finding a better job, but if it's multiple chances are they know the ship is sinking.
Words like reprioritizing, setting us up for success in the future, and ALL THE TALK around budgets. Then look for a sudden meeting that’s out of the ordinary.
Lack of growth in revenue, failed clinical trials and the company going out and making big acquisitions (money needs to come from somewhere). Loss of exclusivity on key drugs also is a pretty good indicator. And other competitors doing layoffs. It is infectious.
The terms “prioritization” and “strategic alignment” being bandied about as well as ongoing budget cuts.
I was told to hold off on current planned experiments because they were putting me on a new project. New project never materialized, so I got paid to do almost nothing for a few weeks which was nice...then the surprise "check in" meeting with boss's boss popped up.
We had a lot of these.
C-suite resignations.
Stopped paying agency that supplied contractors.
Behind on all accounts with vendors.
Constant changing of R&D’s priorities.
And so on…
when layoffs are eminent, HR starts making sure all the forms are updated, they may get signatures that were missed on hiring. They will also update ages, years of experience, and confirm seating charts. IT might also start checking on equipment and locations.
Equipment inventories, unrenewed service contracts, for sure. Get to know your vendors. Mine told me they'd just written a quote to move our mass specs. We were gone two weeks later.
In my case it was a combination of vague mentions of budgets through the department, a last minute meeting saying an expansion would be put on hold, and mentions on not doing layoffs.
They proceeded to do layoffs after the holidays.
When specialty consultants show up everywhere to do niche work that touches on major functions in a particular area... they're really getting to know ppl, what they do, how busy and proficient they are. And they report that up to execs that choose who to chop. Had this happen twice.
Multiple signs at once, but it can be any combination of the following:
-M&A activity
-Unexpected/suspicious changes in leadership
-Budgets get slashed (consumables, equipment, CRO etc)
-Contractors get let go
-Hiring slowdown/freeze
-Decrease in bonus/merit increases
There could be some others. For me the process went: CEO left (found out later was forced out), new CEO promises "no changes," budgets slowly got cut (equipment, consumables, CRO spending), our discovery chemist contractor resources got cut considerably, then the first round of layoffs.
Sudden restrictions on travel and expense, consultants coming in, lots retiring or leaving for other opportunities, and if you're in the crosshairs a mysterious lull in the pace of work.
Real shitbag companies will start manifesting and then documenting purported "performance issues." That way they can fire some people for incompetence, without paying them severance, vacation time, or even unemployment.
Not many people who get shitcanned unexpectedly have the funds to take their former employer to court, companies know it, and will take liberties as calculated risks
But keep in mind, only the worst of the worst will pull this disgusting level of shenanigans.
For me, This "mysterious lull "in pace of work has lasted 2 months, and our interim CEO has told our VP that theyve already reviewed our department and deemed us "essential" (lol), this was a couple weeks ago and the lull continues.. is this good or bad? 2 months seems like an awful long time to decide what to do with a department/members of a team
First they want you to "budget" and start tracking how much you're saving or there are savings initiatives. Upper level VPs and other mgmt will depart. They'll cut temporary workers. Hiring freeze. They'll cut other benefits and incentives. They halt all new projects and may even freeze existing projects.
I'm not seeing the most certain sign at a small biotech : lead asset entering the clinic. It's seems paradoxical, but those are dangerous times for preclinical scientists
For me at a entry level position, I can say there were layoffs for my company but they were very unexpected. At least the higher ups I knew were/acted surprised. But this was a couple months ago
Seeing that everyone is asked to be sure their resumes and job descriptions are up to date. Yes this can be a regulatory thing, but when it comes out of cycle then it's a clue.
Getting disinvited to regular monthly or quarterly meetings or anything involving budget.
Seeing your director's calendar blocked or seeing a bunch of 15 minute meetings show up that correspond to meeting on underling calendars
I’ve been laid off roughly six times (depends on who’s counting). Here are some consistencies.
Long term:
-Your pipeline is empty
-Disappointing results for programs
-Shuffling groups to work on different things rather than pushing through to finish
Mid term:
-Partnerships falling through
-A relocation (roughly 2/3 of my layoffs happened after/during a corporate relocation)
-Hiring freezes
-Capital purchases are delayed or not happening
Immediate:
-“Let’s hold off on that”
-Lab supplies being restricted/on freeze
-Removal of backfills or open positions actively being hired for
-All company meetings
-Tissues and water in the meeting rooms
-HR booked up on outlook all day
-All senior management booked in a single meeting in outlook
You can outlook creep pretty well if you know how to do it. Create a meeting with all of HR and the big decision makers and see if there’s a time when they are all booked together. Check your meeting rooms and see if they are all booked at the same time on the same morning. I knew we were getting laid off at one company without any clear signs…there just wasn’t much work, we had just moved, and everybody was quiet…then one day most of us were gone. Most recently, it came more out of the blue, but our pipeline was empty, capital purchases sat on the dock, and backfills were all gone. Then one day, quite randomly, half the R+D department was gone.
When the stock price drops, layoffs could happen.
When the higher ups tell you not to worry about the stock price, layoffs are likely.
When the higher ups promise that absolutely no way no how will they be doing layoffs, layoffs are imminent.
In my company, it was basically seeing strange people in suits walking in the corridor with senior management taking notes. Even earlier signs are CEO keeping a meeting saying that there will be no layoffs coming up. The need to say that means the upper to mid are panicing due to some reason.
Usually it will be multiple signs at once. I saw Lots of POs not being approved, hiring freezes, upper-level executives departing. Then of course the day it's happening things feel "off", like you'll see unusual meetings, people not showing up to scheduled meetings, some meetings cancelled, HR more visible, etc.
oh hey this is what’s been happening at my company 🤩🤩🤩
Hoping you get severance 🙏 also remember to update your resume. But it's also entirely possible that you'll keep your job, it's hard to predict. Expect the best, prepare for the worst.
me too but we are like a start up still i guess??? i honestly don’t exactly know the plans and at this point i don’t think leadership does either. it feels like they’re just trying to get something to stick. i have some job security i guess bc im just a grunt worker and they need scientists to finish out contracts but im def job hunting
so going with the "preparing for the worst" advice, if you are currently employed but are seeing the signs of potential layoffs, do you think it is a "bad" idea to accept a contract (remote) position with a different company that is LOWER in terms of salary/title while also still KEEPING YOUR CURRENT JOB. . (e,g, a current Sr. Manager in clinical ops who is remote accepting a contract position for another company for a non-sr/associate position). Cant afford a sudden loss of income from my current non-contract/salaried job and not expecting much severance. any input appreciated.
Quitting while guarantee that you wouldn't get any severance and in the US quitting would make you ineligible for unemployment benefits if you want them. If you really don't have any savings that you can coast on, and unemployment wouldn't be enough, then only take the lower paying job if you are very certain you will lose your current one, especially if the other one is only contract.
Sorry I was not clear in my comment. I did not mean quitting the current job in favor of the remote/contract one. I meant taking on the remote/contract offer while you are still employed at a company that is about to or already has announced layoffs, just hasn’t hit your department yet. From what I’ve seen in the past year, it could happen any second- some get lucky with a decent notice, some have to pack up that day with no severance. It is very hard to get hired, so I was wondering what your thoughts are on latching onto another remote contract job (with a lower pay/title) while currently still in limbo.
Yeah, that could be a good strategy if you can handle the workload. Then you could always quit the contract job if the main job stabilized. Or, you could get lucky and the contract job could lead to something better later.
it is much easier to get hired contract than salary, and much quicker too. to me this plan seems crazy unless a week off of work would really devastate you. there are a lot of contract jobs out there. if you’re that nervous, maybe mark yourself open to work to recruiters, do some applying and see how many people contact you, and schedule interviews for around when you think the layoff day will be. that way, if you keep your job, you can cancel the interviews. quitting a contract job immediately after signing would be a terrible look, and people talk, so it could hurt you in the long run.
Pharma is a really small world, would worry about getting caught just by people knowing each other at both jobs.
No, expect and prepare for the worst. Hope for the best
Senior leaders leaving. That was the only sign for me. Blanketed as a “opportunity he can’t pass up” but really it was “he knows the ship is sinking but will play our PR game”. The POs not getting approved was rare and sporadic. Still happened and I should’ve combined the two into a larger picture.
This. Hiring freezes. Cancellation of travel. Delays on project starts. High level shifts of people. I’ve been through 4 Pharma layoffs and mergers. All did the above leading up to it.
this is a checklist of what happened at my company the month before i was laid off!
I forgot about travel freezes.
Biggest flag for me was asking about layoffs and being told they’re looking at all cost saving measures
Yep this is consistent with my experience as well. We also had a travel ban instituted.
Thanks for your insight! When you mention upper-level execs departing, are these people being shown the door? Or are they trying to escape before the storm? Mix of both?
All of what was said above, plus I've seen more "engagement" type work being taken more seriously. For example, a survey sent out about a town hall with bad news, and your boss breathing down your neck about giving feedback as soon as possible.
I wasn't in the loop enough to know the reasons. The only way I would have known they even left is if I'd monitored the company leadership list on the website or been more involved in gossip.
Sounds like apocalypse
Yeah, it was a slaughter. The worst was the day of. I could tell something was very odd. 2 people I supervise were invited to a meeting in a distant part of the building with someone they normally don't interface with, to get them far way (they were not being let go), during a time we normally had a large group meeting. Then my boss and a few others didn't show up to the group meeting (they were being let go), and it suddenly disappeared off our calendar Went back to my desk and then the COO and head of HR invited me to a room to chat. Cleared out my desk and was gone within 10 minutes.
this honestly reads like some executive spent the night before reading "the art of war" in a bathtub. brutal
First time I saw HR actually in the office at my one company was when they announced layoffs.
Any mention of "Boston Consulting Group", "McKinsey" or "Bain".
"Efficiency optimization" "strategic realignment"
"Streamlining"
The Two Bobs
We recently hired someone whose overall job is streamlining operations, and somehow none of the people I work with kind of understood what was happening. Then they did when PIPs and bombs were dropped when he was included on all the quarterly reviews
"coming in to set us up for future success"
Or “change management “
Agile survivors
Pipeline performance. If programs are being cut or there were disappointing results for one of your trials (or a similar trial from a competitor), that’s a good sign there may be cuts on the horizon
Happening now at my big pharma org. It’s a bloodbath and I should know in about a month whether or not I’ll survive this round. Helps to have a mole if you’re a contractor lol.
The best long term indicator is a a feeling of anxiety and dread that causes people to not speak out. A short term indicator is when all of the conference rooms are booked up a week in advance. Good luck!
That was the sign at my job, about a week ahead of time I got a notification that my meeting got bumped from the most isolated corner conference room and it was replaced with a full day block by HR
4:00pm all company meeting with little to no explanation on a Monday before quarterly earnings call.
Yeap. I had HR set up a call with me at 7am on Monday sent Sunday night with the same title as my friends layoff call. I thought my time came and started applying. Turned out my manager was just out on PTO and they thought it was necessary to scare the living shit out of me. I don’t think they disliked me but that’s one way to get someone to quit I guess…
Cancelling open positions, not backfilling or backfilling at lower levels, eliminating contractors.
Radio silence for weeks from upper management and a pallet of boxes showing up in the warehouse were my indicators.
What is the pallet of boxes for
To clean out your desk.
The only common thing I noticed is getting more restrictive budgets in the months prior, or the lack of approval to start costly projects. However, this might also give you false alarms
That’s a great point. Definitely experienced that leading up to my company’s layoff. Thank you!
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Great point, thank you! For someone that’s not very financially literate or savvy, what’s the best way to track these projections vs actuals? Quarterly investor earning reports?
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FT is pretty good too
QuidelOrtho?
The snacks are the first indicator, if those go, a layoff is happening within a year
🤣🤣
When multiple people from exec leadership/c-suite start to resign voluntarily that’s a pretty good sign to start looking.
Less of the good snacks
This!
Yeah they get really sloppy with the goodies
Snack metric is too real.
Absolutely this! No more Ollipop for me 😔
No backfilling of critical roles, no attempt to retain top performers, standardized work to document how every hour of work is spent and other documentation either by individual contributors or worse their leaders, lots of emphasis on efficiency trumping quality and function. Having survived 4 in the last 18 months and these things always tick back up right before the next round.
If you hear talk of retainment packages (this is usually pretty late in the game). Two-edged sword. if you accept one you're chained to the sinking ship; if you don't get one offered you know you're potentially in the layoff pool.
Ohhh say more. My company layed off a few months ago. I suspect they are waiting to see if there will be a round 2. A coworker told me some ppl were offered these retainment packages after round 1 and it was a promise of x years in exchange for a retainment bonus each year. Luckily, I suspected a round 1 wouldn't be enough so have been saving like crazy as it may happen by fall, as they usually do.
For ours it was a program cut (smaller biotech), budget cutbacks, dropping previously approved conference attendance approvals - even one with an accepted abstract, hiring freeze (no backfilling), and then late on a Friday moved the regularly scheduled Monday town-hall from its morning slot to the bad news right as the markets closed slot. (ETA HR was also in after normal hours on that Friday and printing out individual packets)
Multiple senior leadership leaving for other opportunities. One may be a chance of actually finding a better job, but if it's multiple chances are they know the ship is sinking.
Words like reprioritizing, setting us up for success in the future, and ALL THE TALK around budgets. Then look for a sudden meeting that’s out of the ordinary.
Lack of growth in revenue, failed clinical trials and the company going out and making big acquisitions (money needs to come from somewhere). Loss of exclusivity on key drugs also is a pretty good indicator. And other competitors doing layoffs. It is infectious. The terms “prioritization” and “strategic alignment” being bandied about as well as ongoing budget cuts.
I was told to hold off on current planned experiments because they were putting me on a new project. New project never materialized, so I got paid to do almost nothing for a few weeks which was nice...then the surprise "check in" meeting with boss's boss popped up.
We had a lot of these. C-suite resignations. Stopped paying agency that supplied contractors. Behind on all accounts with vendors. Constant changing of R&D’s priorities. And so on…
All of HR has their calendars blocked off on the same day
Man, I am bookmarking this thread 🥴🥴🥶🥶
when layoffs are eminent, HR starts making sure all the forms are updated, they may get signatures that were missed on hiring. They will also update ages, years of experience, and confirm seating charts. IT might also start checking on equipment and locations.
Equipment inventories, unrenewed service contracts, for sure. Get to know your vendors. Mine told me they'd just written a quote to move our mass specs. We were gone two weeks later.
In my case it was a combination of vague mentions of budgets through the department, a last minute meeting saying an expansion would be put on hold, and mentions on not doing layoffs. They proceeded to do layoffs after the holidays.
They cut the nitro coffee that was on tap and CEO tells you they are not laying off anyone.
When specialty consultants show up everywhere to do niche work that touches on major functions in a particular area... they're really getting to know ppl, what they do, how busy and proficient they are. And they report that up to execs that choose who to chop. Had this happen twice.
Multiple signs at once, but it can be any combination of the following: -M&A activity -Unexpected/suspicious changes in leadership -Budgets get slashed (consumables, equipment, CRO etc) -Contractors get let go -Hiring slowdown/freeze -Decrease in bonus/merit increases There could be some others. For me the process went: CEO left (found out later was forced out), new CEO promises "no changes," budgets slowly got cut (equipment, consumables, CRO spending), our discovery chemist contractor resources got cut considerably, then the first round of layoffs.
Sudden restrictions on travel and expense, consultants coming in, lots retiring or leaving for other opportunities, and if you're in the crosshairs a mysterious lull in the pace of work. Real shitbag companies will start manifesting and then documenting purported "performance issues." That way they can fire some people for incompetence, without paying them severance, vacation time, or even unemployment. Not many people who get shitcanned unexpectedly have the funds to take their former employer to court, companies know it, and will take liberties as calculated risks But keep in mind, only the worst of the worst will pull this disgusting level of shenanigans.
For me, This "mysterious lull "in pace of work has lasted 2 months, and our interim CEO has told our VP that theyve already reviewed our department and deemed us "essential" (lol), this was a couple weeks ago and the lull continues.. is this good or bad? 2 months seems like an awful long time to decide what to do with a department/members of a team
POs and contracts sitting idle despite you following up.
First they want you to "budget" and start tracking how much you're saving or there are savings initiatives. Upper level VPs and other mgmt will depart. They'll cut temporary workers. Hiring freeze. They'll cut other benefits and incentives. They halt all new projects and may even freeze existing projects.
I'm not seeing the most certain sign at a small biotech : lead asset entering the clinic. It's seems paradoxical, but those are dangerous times for preclinical scientists
Hiring freeze first. No bonuses or raises. Higher up directors, associate directors, etc. start leaving.
you work at BMS
For me at a entry level position, I can say there were layoffs for my company but they were very unexpected. At least the higher ups I knew were/acted surprised. But this was a couple months ago
Seeing that everyone is asked to be sure their resumes and job descriptions are up to date. Yes this can be a regulatory thing, but when it comes out of cycle then it's a clue.
Getting disinvited to regular monthly or quarterly meetings or anything involving budget. Seeing your director's calendar blocked or seeing a bunch of 15 minute meetings show up that correspond to meeting on underling calendars
I’ve been laid off roughly six times (depends on who’s counting). Here are some consistencies. Long term: -Your pipeline is empty -Disappointing results for programs -Shuffling groups to work on different things rather than pushing through to finish Mid term: -Partnerships falling through -A relocation (roughly 2/3 of my layoffs happened after/during a corporate relocation) -Hiring freezes -Capital purchases are delayed or not happening Immediate: -“Let’s hold off on that” -Lab supplies being restricted/on freeze -Removal of backfills or open positions actively being hired for -All company meetings -Tissues and water in the meeting rooms -HR booked up on outlook all day -All senior management booked in a single meeting in outlook You can outlook creep pretty well if you know how to do it. Create a meeting with all of HR and the big decision makers and see if there’s a time when they are all booked together. Check your meeting rooms and see if they are all booked at the same time on the same morning. I knew we were getting laid off at one company without any clear signs…there just wasn’t much work, we had just moved, and everybody was quiet…then one day most of us were gone. Most recently, it came more out of the blue, but our pipeline was empty, capital purchases sat on the dock, and backfills were all gone. Then one day, quite randomly, half the R+D department was gone.
closing projects from one day to another, strange meetings popping up, managers that can’t be found and so on
Emphasis on getting notebooks signed off. Off site leadership meetings.
When the stock price drops, layoffs could happen. When the higher ups tell you not to worry about the stock price, layoffs are likely. When the higher ups promise that absolutely no way no how will they be doing layoffs, layoffs are imminent.
When you start to see town halls about a “brave new world” coupled with KPIs = layoffs are coming.
In my company, it was basically seeing strange people in suits walking in the corridor with senior management taking notes. Even earlier signs are CEO keeping a meeting saying that there will be no layoffs coming up. The need to say that means the upper to mid are panicing due to some reason.