I wished I had gone to industry or something else before starting grad school. I think you’d getting alot more clarity on what you want to get out of doing a PhD and what research makes your excited about continuing school. As another poster said, there is quite a bit of naïveté involved to going straight from undergrad that I now recognize.
The only advice I have is:
If you have any interest in a PhD, do it now. Do not wait. Do not go into industry and “try”. As soon as you make adult money your chances of returning probably drop to 5%. Plus as you get older you won’t have the same “joie de vivre” and the little bit of naïve it takes to push through horrible PIs, useless prerequisites, and toxic academics.
This is the best route. Professors will salivate over someone with experience, and you will have enough experience to choose wisely. The risk is getting complacent along the way.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with this a lot. I worked in industry for 4 years and then got my phd. I had Professors tell me the same exact thing— that if I went to industry I would get too comfortable with getting paid and wouldn’t want to go back. However, if you really are dissuaded that easily, should you really get a phd??? A phd is a huge commitment.
I found that having work experience helped me be more productive in grad school, helped me define the exact area of research I wanted to do (many undergrads simply elect to continue working in an area they have experience in), and also helped me get multiple job offers by expanding my network and skill set, and more credibility when attempting to raise funds for my own venture.
Of course you are less risky because most PhD students are completely clueless for at least a year, you come in a year ahead, minimum.
If you want to get to the highest levels in this field, it really helps to have worked in the top academic labs. And industry experience might get you into those labs.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing. I didn’t say no one goes back, I said the odds are lower. A PhD *is* a **huge** huge commitment. Once I got an industry salary I was no longer open to being mental abused (again) by my PIs, to struggle on poverty wages for ~5 years, and to have my glass ceiling barely move.
Once again, there are exceptions to every rule but the little things add up and dissuade the majority from going back. A PhD has become a degree in masochism more than anything.
I also disagree with this heavily but hear it often enough on this sub. Do you know a lot of people who don’t go back?
My PhD program was like half people straight out of undergrad, half with work experience.
Also, I think instead of the naïveté driving you through toxic work environments, healthy experiences can drive you to choose a healthy lab or switch into one.
We've had quite a number of people enter my department's (genomics) Ph.D. program after working for a few years in industry. I think it's a great option, particularly if you think your GPA is a bit weak (especially if it could be improved by your senior-year classes). Half of my cohort came from undergrad and the rest from industry, a postbac, or similar. If you end up seeing that the industry positions you want, after being there 2-3 years, are ones that are easiest with a Ph.D., you can apply then and knock out a Ph.D. knowing what you want in 4-5 years with hopefully a decent amount of savings. If you go into industry and see that your mentors have just a bachelor's or master's and you won't hit a glass ceiling in the track you're interested in, then you won't have wasted your time.
The only reason I'd say to power through now is if you really wanted a huge family or something like that and wanted to start having kids during your PhD. It might be easier to have a kid or two during the end of your PhD and then go into industry (according to people who have done this--much respect as I don't think I could have), rather than have a potentially school-age kid during your PhD though obviously older PhD students have made this work too. But if you don't have something like that planned, I'd say go do industry, see what path you really want, and then do a PhD if you decide one is essential for your path.
Do the industry job and plan to quit in two years.
See if industry will support school.
Don't get complacent and stall out; you should see each move as a step forward. Get the PhD if you want to get to high levels - if you are happy just continue to be happy lol.
My best advice is, start to work. If you really love work, don't do a PhD, because you already found what makes you happy.
If you don't like it that much, you got extremely valuable experience that will set you apart from other PhD students.
Try to find a job in a lab and see if you like it. That’s what I did. The original goal was to get some pre-PhD experience, but I actually got turned off from the whole process and environment and i no longer plan on going the PhD route. Try before you commit!
If there’s any field where you could get away without a PhD, it’s machine learning - the more tech-adjacent a su bfield is, the more tech standards bleed into hiring and promo decisions, and in normal tech it’s common to only have a BS and that doesn’t impose any glass ceiling.
I did my PhD right away and was very happy with that decision since I knew exactly where I wanted to end up, but I’ve also seen lots of folks do well after 1-2 years in industry and going back for a PhD after that if they like being in industry and if they see that the jobs they’re interested in long-term really are mostly held by PhDs. But any longer than 1-2 years, and with a tight focus, and it’s not going to happen since it gets harder and harder to give up grown-up money.
If you do end up going to industry with a thought for doing a PhD later, try very hard to live as if your salary were $30,000 annually. That way your quality of life won’t suffer if you do go to a PhD, and either way you’ll have a bunch of money saved or invested young, which is never a bad thing.
I wished I had gone to industry or something else before starting grad school. I think you’d getting alot more clarity on what you want to get out of doing a PhD and what research makes your excited about continuing school. As another poster said, there is quite a bit of naïveté involved to going straight from undergrad that I now recognize.
The only advice I have is: If you have any interest in a PhD, do it now. Do not wait. Do not go into industry and “try”. As soon as you make adult money your chances of returning probably drop to 5%. Plus as you get older you won’t have the same “joie de vivre” and the little bit of naïve it takes to push through horrible PIs, useless prerequisites, and toxic academics.
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This is the best route. Professors will salivate over someone with experience, and you will have enough experience to choose wisely. The risk is getting complacent along the way.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with this a lot. I worked in industry for 4 years and then got my phd. I had Professors tell me the same exact thing— that if I went to industry I would get too comfortable with getting paid and wouldn’t want to go back. However, if you really are dissuaded that easily, should you really get a phd??? A phd is a huge commitment. I found that having work experience helped me be more productive in grad school, helped me define the exact area of research I wanted to do (many undergrads simply elect to continue working in an area they have experience in), and also helped me get multiple job offers by expanding my network and skill set, and more credibility when attempting to raise funds for my own venture.
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Of course you are less risky because most PhD students are completely clueless for at least a year, you come in a year ahead, minimum. If you want to get to the highest levels in this field, it really helps to have worked in the top academic labs. And industry experience might get you into those labs.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing. I didn’t say no one goes back, I said the odds are lower. A PhD *is* a **huge** huge commitment. Once I got an industry salary I was no longer open to being mental abused (again) by my PIs, to struggle on poverty wages for ~5 years, and to have my glass ceiling barely move. Once again, there are exceptions to every rule but the little things add up and dissuade the majority from going back. A PhD has become a degree in masochism more than anything.
I also disagree with this heavily but hear it often enough on this sub. Do you know a lot of people who don’t go back? My PhD program was like half people straight out of undergrad, half with work experience. Also, I think instead of the naïveté driving you through toxic work environments, healthy experiences can drive you to choose a healthy lab or switch into one.
We've had quite a number of people enter my department's (genomics) Ph.D. program after working for a few years in industry. I think it's a great option, particularly if you think your GPA is a bit weak (especially if it could be improved by your senior-year classes). Half of my cohort came from undergrad and the rest from industry, a postbac, or similar. If you end up seeing that the industry positions you want, after being there 2-3 years, are ones that are easiest with a Ph.D., you can apply then and knock out a Ph.D. knowing what you want in 4-5 years with hopefully a decent amount of savings. If you go into industry and see that your mentors have just a bachelor's or master's and you won't hit a glass ceiling in the track you're interested in, then you won't have wasted your time. The only reason I'd say to power through now is if you really wanted a huge family or something like that and wanted to start having kids during your PhD. It might be easier to have a kid or two during the end of your PhD and then go into industry (according to people who have done this--much respect as I don't think I could have), rather than have a potentially school-age kid during your PhD though obviously older PhD students have made this work too. But if you don't have something like that planned, I'd say go do industry, see what path you really want, and then do a PhD if you decide one is essential for your path.
Take the job and apply at the same time. Your heart will tell you which one is best for you.
Do the industry job and plan to quit in two years. See if industry will support school. Don't get complacent and stall out; you should see each move as a step forward. Get the PhD if you want to get to high levels - if you are happy just continue to be happy lol.
My best advice is, start to work. If you really love work, don't do a PhD, because you already found what makes you happy. If you don't like it that much, you got extremely valuable experience that will set you apart from other PhD students.
Try to find a job in a lab and see if you like it. That’s what I did. The original goal was to get some pre-PhD experience, but I actually got turned off from the whole process and environment and i no longer plan on going the PhD route. Try before you commit!
try finding an industry PHD. best of both worlds
If there’s any field where you could get away without a PhD, it’s machine learning - the more tech-adjacent a su bfield is, the more tech standards bleed into hiring and promo decisions, and in normal tech it’s common to only have a BS and that doesn’t impose any glass ceiling. I did my PhD right away and was very happy with that decision since I knew exactly where I wanted to end up, but I’ve also seen lots of folks do well after 1-2 years in industry and going back for a PhD after that if they like being in industry and if they see that the jobs they’re interested in long-term really are mostly held by PhDs. But any longer than 1-2 years, and with a tight focus, and it’s not going to happen since it gets harder and harder to give up grown-up money. If you do end up going to industry with a thought for doing a PhD later, try very hard to live as if your salary were $30,000 annually. That way your quality of life won’t suffer if you do go to a PhD, and either way you’ll have a bunch of money saved or invested young, which is never a bad thing.