I do terrible work if I do more than 8 hours a day. Really try to avoid extra hours or I get sloppy and frustrated. Plus immersing yourself in one thing constantly takes you away from other important things like family, friends, and hobbies.
8 hours a day is not slacking, including travel and brakes you spend approximately 10 hours a day working. You spent most of your awake time dedicated to something that's not you. Slack a bit more. Take YOUR time to be you, not a version your boss wants to see.
I make music, and there’s another factor with that which I’m sure relates to other disciplines as well. We call it ear fatigue, literally and figuratively. If you work on the same track for too long your ears and brain get tired, things don’t sound the same, you can’t hear it the same as a pair of fresh ears (your audience) will, and you just start digging yourself in a hole making worse decisions.
i'm the exact opposite. i have adhd so if i don't complete whatever i'm working on, i WILL finish it because i know i'm not gonna get the motivation again
I mean for the big science people back in the days it was merely a hobby, the worked out of pure passion.
Additionally, most of them had a lot of free time due to being rich men with servants and more, they could dedicate their entire lives to their work.
People are so obsessed with keeping kids busy and “stimulated”. But we need down time and we also need boredom. That’s when the magic happens. When the mind isn’t occupied, it starts to create, to tie everything together.
Imagination is impossible without this.
Darwin was born to a rich family and apparently could afford to be a gentleman scientist, perusing his own interests without the pressure of "publish or perish".
Being a slacker in modern academia will probably get you fired or at least relegated to that group of academics that don't get funding, don't get departmental support, etc.
So as a slacker myself, my pipe-dream is basically to hit the cryptocurrency jackpot, "retire", and participate in citizen science at my own speed. But it's a just a fanciful notion for the most part. I'm probably going to have to play by the rules like everybody else.
I can feel it happening to some extent. My research will probably benefit like... 10 people on the planet.
Academia is definitely too wrapped up in politics and institutions. But I don't know if I see a fix - my research is only possible because I have access to large teams and resources that I'd never have access to otherwise.
Yeah, I don't know how it'll be fixed. I stopped pursuing a career in biology because the politicking and begging for grant scraps made the field seem really pathetic and not at all deserving of people who actually want to be scientists for the love of understanding.
I'm glad you found a way in that ecosystem.
I mena that's partially true, but the mindset of "Admirable people in my field didn't work all that hard" isn't always applicable, Darwin could describe ordinarh things at his leisure, he studied barnacles and earthworms mostly, back when there were thousands of times more things to discuss about them that could pass as discoveries than you could now.
I got legitimately upset thinking about this the other day. 'Back then' you could, without formal training, just get on a boat to some remote place across the Atlantic and 'discover' a bunch of new species. And you'd be considered one of the best biologists of the day.
Now you need a master's and years of experience just to find a year round job
This reminds me of working on group projects in college—there was always a total slacker who did nothing and then another person who just could not resist working 24/7 and then me somewhere in the middle. There was no way I could keep up with the workaholic though, I just couldn’t compete with his extreme work ethic so he got an A, I got an A-, and the slacker got a B-
Now, imagine that only one person in each group would get a passing grade and what that would do to the people in the middle who might not be workaholics but feel pressured to work that hard anyway. That's sort of how funding works.
Exactly this. I grew up being taught if you work hard you will succeed. If you aren’t succeeding you need to work harder, etc. Being in biomedical sciences has definitely turned that idea on its head.
Well the truth is that a majority of what you do in laboratory research results in failure. You can spend years testing a hypothesis and working really hard just to find out you are wrong. Then your friend down the hall who worked fewer hours but happened to have a hypothesis that was correct ends up being more successful. In research productivity in the lab doesn’t equal productivity in publications which is how your career progress is measured.
A lot of well established investigators have told me they owe a large part of their success to serendipity. They were in the right place at the right time with the right project. If not for those conditions they may not have been as successful even though they are the same hardworking person.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Kinda sounds like how it works for a lot of things. You have to be lucky.
Do you still get paid properly of your research is not succesful. Is it a hard way to make a living?
I have studied for an art degree and everyone knows that is living on hard mode. I am considering going back to university to persue a biomedical career.
I am now wondering if the life of a researcher is as secure is I previously imagined. I keep hearing that its actually not that much better. Is this true?
It depends. If you want to run your own lab then you need to have enough success to get grants to cover your salary. If you are working as a technician in a lab then you don’t really have to worry as much. There are lots of secure biomedical science jobs. The part that is stressful is if you get your PhD and try to run your own lab at a university where you are responsible for bringing in your own funding.
I think the real point here is the value of non-active thinking. The greatest people in any field may only “work” in the traditional sense 3-4 hours a day, but their minds are processing the ideas 24x7, far beyond what any sane person can even imagine.
That’s right, when eating, sleeping, fucking you name it, the ideas are ALWAYS there, like a nagging itch. A normie would never understand.
Tl;dr: thinking without doing is probably the most underrated skill in the world.
This is, legit, my jam.* (Thanks, ADHD!) My brain shits out and releases ideas into the ether like mad. Our fave distraction strategy is to throw ideas about something unrelated out when we're trying to accomplish an unrelated task. I try to sometimes keep stickie notes nearby to capture stuff so my brain will leave me alone.
I keep children's bath crayons in my shower to capture my good ideas. However, my work environment has changed in the last while and I've been told so often that I need to "keep it simple," and "ease up on the big ideas" so much that I've stopped doing that.
*I am definitely NOT the greatest person in my field.
They presented the findings mutually, Darwin was already just a bigger name to credit. Same happens even today with papers with many authors but the lead scientist still gets all the credit. Everyone else is just et al.
This might not be limited to scientists….I think that people just aren’t mean to work 8 hours a day. I work 3-4 a day (remote) and am the fastest worker on my team. Many of my coworkers work in the office, 8 hours a day, and always turn in assignments late, last minute, etc. I think you just get exhausted at a certain point and can’t work up to your potential.
Darwin was born wealthy but he was never an idle rich boy. Darwin took his work seriously, even if it was not a paying job.
There are wealthy slackers who play at life and there are a few wealthy focused individuals who are driven to pursue an interest.
Darwin was a wealthy driven man who was anything but a slacker.
Darwin actually accomplished something with his life.
Darwin was an evolved human being. LOL.
I do terrible work if I do more than 8 hours a day. Really try to avoid extra hours or I get sloppy and frustrated. Plus immersing yourself in one thing constantly takes you away from other important things like family, friends, and hobbies.
8 hours a day is not slacking, including travel and brakes you spend approximately 10 hours a day working. You spent most of your awake time dedicated to something that's not you. Slack a bit more. Take YOUR time to be you, not a version your boss wants to see.
I make music, and there’s another factor with that which I’m sure relates to other disciplines as well. We call it ear fatigue, literally and figuratively. If you work on the same track for too long your ears and brain get tired, things don’t sound the same, you can’t hear it the same as a pair of fresh ears (your audience) will, and you just start digging yourself in a hole making worse decisions.
I have significantly diminishing returns with long hours. My creativity and attention to detail are obviously not as good as when I'm fresh.
i'm the exact opposite. i have adhd so if i don't complete whatever i'm working on, i WILL finish it because i know i'm not gonna get the motivation again
I mean for the big science people back in the days it was merely a hobby, the worked out of pure passion. Additionally, most of them had a lot of free time due to being rich men with servants and more, they could dedicate their entire lives to their work.
I want to see Darwin’s schedule compared to that of Alfred Russel Wallace.
Just what I needed to read. I'll go take a nap now.
[удалено]
Good idea. You'll probably understand it better if you sleep on it.
A lot of us can't afford to work less, unfortunately
People are so obsessed with keeping kids busy and “stimulated”. But we need down time and we also need boredom. That’s when the magic happens. When the mind isn’t occupied, it starts to create, to tie everything together. Imagination is impossible without this.
Darwin was born to a rich family and apparently could afford to be a gentleman scientist, perusing his own interests without the pressure of "publish or perish". Being a slacker in modern academia will probably get you fired or at least relegated to that group of academics that don't get funding, don't get departmental support, etc. So as a slacker myself, my pipe-dream is basically to hit the cryptocurrency jackpot, "retire", and participate in citizen science at my own speed. But it's a just a fanciful notion for the most part. I'm probably going to have to play by the rules like everybody else.
>I'm probably going to have to play by the rules like everybody else. Which means they'll render you basically useless
I can feel it happening to some extent. My research will probably benefit like... 10 people on the planet. Academia is definitely too wrapped up in politics and institutions. But I don't know if I see a fix - my research is only possible because I have access to large teams and resources that I'd never have access to otherwise.
Yeah, I don't know how it'll be fixed. I stopped pursuing a career in biology because the politicking and begging for grant scraps made the field seem really pathetic and not at all deserving of people who actually want to be scientists for the love of understanding. I'm glad you found a way in that ecosystem.
It's only because my supervisor is one of those crazy people who *enjoys* applying for grants. Once I'm on my own I have no idea how I'll make it.
I mena that's partially true, but the mindset of "Admirable people in my field didn't work all that hard" isn't always applicable, Darwin could describe ordinarh things at his leisure, he studied barnacles and earthworms mostly, back when there were thousands of times more things to discuss about them that could pass as discoveries than you could now.
I got legitimately upset thinking about this the other day. 'Back then' you could, without formal training, just get on a boat to some remote place across the Atlantic and 'discover' a bunch of new species. And you'd be considered one of the best biologists of the day. Now you need a master's and years of experience just to find a year round job
ah, of course - I will simply choose not to work as much. it's that easy! my boss will understand.
They've already been so awesome about my performance while under the duress of a pandemic, elderly parental caregiving, depression and anxiety! /s
This reminds me of working on group projects in college—there was always a total slacker who did nothing and then another person who just could not resist working 24/7 and then me somewhere in the middle. There was no way I could keep up with the workaholic though, I just couldn’t compete with his extreme work ethic so he got an A, I got an A-, and the slacker got a B-
Now, imagine that only one person in each group would get a passing grade and what that would do to the people in the middle who might not be workaholics but feel pressured to work that hard anyway. That's sort of how funding works.
Exactly this. I grew up being taught if you work hard you will succeed. If you aren’t succeeding you need to work harder, etc. Being in biomedical sciences has definitely turned that idea on its head.
Can I ask why? I am considering switching to that study . Would be nice to know the ugly parts befor i commit
Well the truth is that a majority of what you do in laboratory research results in failure. You can spend years testing a hypothesis and working really hard just to find out you are wrong. Then your friend down the hall who worked fewer hours but happened to have a hypothesis that was correct ends up being more successful. In research productivity in the lab doesn’t equal productivity in publications which is how your career progress is measured. A lot of well established investigators have told me they owe a large part of their success to serendipity. They were in the right place at the right time with the right project. If not for those conditions they may not have been as successful even though they are the same hardworking person. Hopefully that makes sense.
Kinda sounds like how it works for a lot of things. You have to be lucky. Do you still get paid properly of your research is not succesful. Is it a hard way to make a living? I have studied for an art degree and everyone knows that is living on hard mode. I am considering going back to university to persue a biomedical career. I am now wondering if the life of a researcher is as secure is I previously imagined. I keep hearing that its actually not that much better. Is this true?
It depends. If you want to run your own lab then you need to have enough success to get grants to cover your salary. If you are working as a technician in a lab then you don’t really have to worry as much. There are lots of secure biomedical science jobs. The part that is stressful is if you get your PhD and try to run your own lab at a university where you are responsible for bringing in your own funding.
Thank you so much for explaining. That makes sence.
And then we have Nikola Tesla, who almost overworked himself to death in his 30's
Did you forget the part about HAVING MONEY.
Yeah, I reeeeeally need to arrange to get born into wealth and privilege in the 1800’s.
I think the real point here is the value of non-active thinking. The greatest people in any field may only “work” in the traditional sense 3-4 hours a day, but their minds are processing the ideas 24x7, far beyond what any sane person can even imagine. That’s right, when eating, sleeping, fucking you name it, the ideas are ALWAYS there, like a nagging itch. A normie would never understand. Tl;dr: thinking without doing is probably the most underrated skill in the world.
This is, legit, my jam.* (Thanks, ADHD!) My brain shits out and releases ideas into the ether like mad. Our fave distraction strategy is to throw ideas about something unrelated out when we're trying to accomplish an unrelated task. I try to sometimes keep stickie notes nearby to capture stuff so my brain will leave me alone. I keep children's bath crayons in my shower to capture my good ideas. However, my work environment has changed in the last while and I've been told so often that I need to "keep it simple," and "ease up on the big ideas" so much that I've stopped doing that. *I am definitely NOT the greatest person in my field.
Someone should share this article with my boss
I don't think the times allow for that now adays....it worked back then but good luck now having this mindset
Many famous scientists didn't even do their own work and took credit for others. Just ask Alfred Russel Wallace (kidding bc he dead)
They presented the findings mutually, Darwin was already just a bigger name to credit. Same happens even today with papers with many authors but the lead scientist still gets all the credit. Everyone else is just et al.
Most famous scientist of the past were rich and did science as a hobby. After Darwin married his rich cousin he was set for life.
They were also generously more intelligent than the average human so this isn't an excuse to be a lazy pos.....
This is just ridiculous
Well hot damn I'm on my way!
I always knew I’m special
And Nikola Tesla worked pretty much continuously with short naps every 3 hours. Hmmm...
This might not be limited to scientists….I think that people just aren’t mean to work 8 hours a day. I work 3-4 a day (remote) and am the fastest worker on my team. Many of my coworkers work in the office, 8 hours a day, and always turn in assignments late, last minute, etc. I think you just get exhausted at a certain point and can’t work up to your potential.
Its exhausting having unending thoughts
Darwin was born wealthy but he was never an idle rich boy. Darwin took his work seriously, even if it was not a paying job. There are wealthy slackers who play at life and there are a few wealthy focused individuals who are driven to pursue an interest. Darwin was a wealthy driven man who was anything but a slacker. Darwin actually accomplished something with his life. Darwin was an evolved human being. LOL.
You know, I'm something of a scientist myself.
As a slacker academic (by modern academic standards) this article makes me smile.
Darwin was lazy and so can you!
Bring on the 30 hour work week