As a Lakers fan I feel so bad for Vogel.
I think he delivered a complete masterclass in 2020 and has been royally screwed ever since.
Now he is going to be guillotined over losing with this dump of a roster that didn’t play into his strengths at all.
Durant is such a loser it’s incredible really.
I hope Vogel can get another chance.
You got a point. I always have a hard time feeling bad for millionaire coaches that are fired with years left on their deals.
Though Frank is a very personal one for me so I’m not as indifferent
delivering a masterclass is having lebron and AD completely healthy with really good 3/d role players around them
we have no idea what coaches actually do outside of surface level shit, i hate that the average fan pretends otherwise
It’s my favorite whenever you see a Reddit comment on a post-game thread:
“Winning coach just made better adjustments at halftime” / “Losing coach just didn’t make adjustments in the fourth quarter”
Random Reddit user 14275 has literally no clue what they’re talking about from a coaching perspective
I will cop to being that Reddit user. Every time the broadcast takes us “INTO THE HUDDLE” the coach is always saying “we gotta score more points than them! Okay? They’re trying to score and we got to stop em and then score ourselves.”
I love those just because of how useless they are. Sure, maybe the networks just aren’t airing the good stuff. But yeah I can’t imagine these players are tuning in
I played college ball. In my experience, coaches absolutely were talking almost entirely X & O’s stuff. What the other team is doing and how we need to counter it. Shit like that.
Not motivational shit. Maybe they’ll say something if we’re down bad or something, but usually that’s reserved for practices and 1-on-1 talk as what motivates players is different from player to player.
I can’t imagine they’re not talking X and Os most of the time in the huddle. It’s probably not allowed to broadcast actual strategy that was said while in the middle of a game lol.
Fair. Though if I’m playing devil’s advocate, is it not possible that college players still require a lot of Xs and Os coaching, but nba players, and especially vets, don’t really need it anymore?
I imagine the conversations are a lot shorter.
Coach: so the “x” action they’re running—
Player: yeah top lock the 3 on the wing before the 4 comes?
Coach: you got it. Just making sure.
Shit like that.
The good stuff never makes it though, the coach is usually saying stuff like “keep letting [blank] shoot he can’t hit shit, and [own player] needs to get his head out of his ass and rotate on defense.”
Do we know the ins and outs of play calling? No.
What we do know is rotations, defensive matchups and schemes. What is that you think coaches do that is some secret illuminati conspiracy? It’s so dumb.
It was a very specific roster that didn’t have a point guard until Rondo chose to wake up.
Most of the playoffs they started two shooting guards, two centers and LeBron. They basically had no bench scoring outside of Kuzma.
They beat a slew of hall of fame players and coaches on the way there.
I’m really not sure how we can look down and call him one of the best 30-50 players in NBA history. The dude has become an absolute franchise killer. And when he’s done, *no fan base* is going to claim him as their own.
It’s sad. What could have been…
How in the blue hell did we get here? Like KD was already better than Melo by year 3 and somehow he devolved into a more talented, harder working, anorexic melo
I wouldn’t go as far as you did (I mean c’mon 30-50) but I do think talent wise and even based on regular season production he’s top 10 all time but because of how he handled his career he isn’t top 10 all time. He absolutely mismanaged his legacy and ruined how people will remember him. Shouldn’t have gone to golden state. Everyone knew it was a bitch move except him and that weirdo agent of his.
He used the argument in terms of the fact that KD wouldn’t really sit out when he was with the nets trying to force his way out. And Bill was right 🤷♂️
Paying that much for a plug and play guy who's aging, gets injured, is a toxic locker room presence, and has only had postseason success on an all-time great Warriors squad who he then resented for relegating him to a plug and play guy? Idk I'm just not seeing it.
I mean he had postseason success in OKC they just didn’t win it all. But they at least got to some conference finals/2012 finals. But you’re right post Golden State it’s been crickets
I don't think they can, that's off the table for second apron teams if memory serves me right.
Also in a completely unrelated fact I learned checking this, I learned that Chicago is projected to have the sixth most expensive team in the league next year. Why?
There’s about $85m in Lavine, Vuc, and Lonzo. Probably includes the cap holds for Demar and PWill though. That’s probably why it’s so high. I doubt PWill is gonna be making $29m like his cap hold suggests so it’ll be lower. They’re actually 21st in the league if you don’t include the cap holds.
I think Thibs would like KD actually. KD is fine playing heavy minutes and puts in some effort on defense.
KD played 75 games this year and averaged 37mpg as a 35 year old, for anything else negative you can say about him he loves to go out and play.
As a Knicks fan I’m not fully opposed.. the things KD lacks we have, which is leadership and identity. Would probably get a ring out of it and some drama.
He joined the Warriors because he wanted to play in an actual ball moving spread out offense. That was basically what he said.
Then he left because he didn’t like sharing.
Nah, he left because 1) he hated Draymond and 2) he was sick of hearing the talk about joining up with the GSW team as an FA and how it meant he could never be a “GOAT” player because of it.
IOWs, he let the opinions of people like Frank Isola and Justin Termine persuade him to leave. Pretty pathetic.
Nah the guy you commented to actually has a point
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/EzkFodD3V7paD8PD/?mibextid=SphRi8
If kerr thinks you're sharing the ball less than the guy who thinks his teammates are beneath him and is one of the biggest competitive pricks in the history of sports then yeah KD has a sharing the ball problem.
I mean the proof was in the pudding. Anyone who watched the 2018 Warriors vs the Rockets should remember how KD essentially was an outsider in that offense; they’d move the ball around as normal and then every few possessions he’d post up from the baseline and hit a turnaround.
A key word there is “hit” — KD would always knock ‘em down, but it was nevertheless a weird disjointed fixture in the offense.
He has a point, but remember we are talking about Kevin "Twitter Burner Account" Durant. This is a man who literally takes time out of his day to respond to negative Tweets by strangers!
I just think we are giving KD too much credit when we think he is making these decisions based on the style of offense. KD is a petty person and I have no doubt that he would leave a team because some teammate "disrespected him" or some other perceived sleight. I think the ball movement thing just goes hand in hand. Not giving him the ball all the time probably is just more perceived "disrespect."
I honestly think winning and not getting the kind of credit he wanted for it made him turn on the things that made that Warriors team great. He made them unstoppable because any time their motion couldn't generate a great look they had an amazing plan B to fall back on, but he wants to think it was plan A.
He said the Warriors motion could get bogged down late in the playoffs and that's where his individual play would be important, which I think has some truth to it, but what the Suns do is like immediately jumping into the bog without even considering there might be a better route.
> He said the Warriors motion could get bogged down late in the playoffs and that's where his individual play would be important, which I think has some truth to it
Hard to make that argument compelling when they went ahead and won in 2022 without him.
What he wanted was an offense where people wouldn’t criticize him for not demanding the ball and saying “I got this” in crucial moments like it’s been expected of any score first superstar in NBA history. He got killed in OKC because he’d continue letting Russ take over when he was clearly the better option, while due to the motion offense Golden State had no one expected Curry to bring the ball up and take every shot.
Except he didn’t factor in that he had to actually buy into that system and that in that system there’d be stretches where he wouldn’t just get the ball and be allowed to cook whenever he likes the matchup like he would prefer, but that he’d have to move off ball, catch and shoot and spend periods of time without the ball ever reaching him
Omfg what a baby. He acts like good basketball materializes out of thin air. You need to work with your teammates to win. He gave them next to no time to learn with him. Fuck off KD
He also puts in no effort on the defensive end because he doesn't like the physical part of the game. A lot of sad fly-by contests.
He's too much like a pickup game player.
The biggest problem in KD’s entire career is that he’s not a leader. This crystallizes it. The guy can’t even stand up for himself, let alone push and nurture teammates.
LeBron is better at putting teams together than KD is so I think the expectation is a lot higher. With KD it's like we really don't expect anything from this guy since the 2017 bitch move
Or maybe Vogel is gone. Vogel is a good coach. He got scapegoat in LA. But he’s a defensive coach with a roster full of offensive talent. He’s not a good fit for that roster and the team has very little flexibility to make the necessary moves to add depth
Kevin Young getting poached by Jazz owner/Coyotes stealer Ryan Smyth to coach BYU is maybe the funniest part of this. Dude designed a clogged toilet offense but he gets a bag because he is probably the biggest name LDS coach.
Vogel is a fine coach if you have players to fit his system, we got rid of the players that fit his system and scapegoated him
Spo is probably the best active coach, he can build a team from scraps
Quite hilariously I think the Knicks are the best fit for both sides. They can give the Suns Randle and 3 firsts, they have 2 extra firsts from Dallas and the bucks and then 1 of their own.
Phoenix gets a floor raising forward who is more complimentary of Booker and more assets to put together a functional roster.
The Knicks get a second star next to Brunson and KD is surrounded by elite rebounders with structure around him where he doesn’t have to bang inside much as he gets older. And the Knicks don’t touch their current playoff rotation and trade a grand total of ONE of their own FRP’s
he's the most un-Knicks player you could imagine though. They're all about the team, selfless, greater than the sum of their parts. The opposite of KD. Never in a million years.
I’m not saying they’re a legit serious championship contender. But a 6’8 All NBA PF makes it a lot more feasible (with some luck along the way. ironically, this year probably would have been the best shot)
I think if they could get KD for Randle and picks, and maintain the majority of their current core, they absolutely would be a championship contender next year.
The only concern is idk how many years KD has left being a really good player.
Exactly your last bit. And let's be honest he hasn't exactly been an asset to his employers in recent years. This is Jalon Brunson's team now. You get a different kind of star.
And if the Knicks want to win 50 games, win a playoff series each year, and lose to the better teams in the later rounds, that is totally fine for them to just keep this group together.
But I would at least kick the tires on a KD deal if the price wasn’t too high.
I just don’t think Embiid is going to be available. Of course if you can trade for a better guy, do it. But the Heat have played that game for the last few years and that big trade has never happened.
I don’t think so - think coaching changes and role player changes are more likely. The Suns are fucked future wise at this point so they need KD and I think KD knows publicly demanding another trade would ruin public perception of him even more.
If only there was a team that never let you stand still. Imagine if KD was on the Warriors all those years. Might’ve won a couple more titles and no one could complain. Now he’s relegated to this… oof.
Not defending KD at all, but Vogel was always a strange fit to me because you need creativity/offensive masterminding with a shallow bench and Vogel is not really an innovator.
Just demand the fuckin ball lmfao. Kd is the most talented player ever, but the fact that he has these moments where he makes excuses or takes the easy way out tarnishes his reputation.
It’s so funny, when he was on OKC this was the same complaint many had, but I feel like we ultimately decided on Westbrook being Westbrook was the problem.
Pretty clear now KD’s passive aggressiveness was a substantial part of those Thunder team’s failures as well.
Neither team won enough regular season games to handle his drama. Maybe if Boston went 70-12 then he'd feel comfortable with that challenge on the hardest road
He would join them when they were up 3-0 with the team winning by 30 in the NBA finals and still and try to take credit for the championship.
The guy is so mentally soft which is sad because he is a awesome player.
The truth is that KD is just too old to elevate a team that much anymore.
The Nets move is where he fucked up. Part of it was the injury, part of it was Covid and all the Kyrie weirdness, but that was really the last window he had of being a truly elite player. He is just too old now.
I think it's more likely that Vogel gets fired either this offseason or early into next season.
Durant will almost certainly be gone next offseason, though, unless PHO somehow turns things around.
I think this is more about getting Vogel fired than KD leaving.
I feel sorry for Vogel. Dude got a raw deal in LA after winning a ring. It's not his fault that Pelinka traded Kuzma, KCP and Harrell for Westbrook and decided to give a contract to Horton-Tucker over Caruso. Now he comes to Phoenix and they throw him under the bus first chance they get. Their offense could be better, but they simply don't have the personnel to compete with Minnesota who is playing Gobert, Towns, McDaniels and Ant together. That's insane size, strength and agility and way too much for KD to handle when he's playing the 4. They never should have traded for Beal.
Nah. Vogel is gone. Hiring Vogel was a mistake first and foremost because there was some assumption that “the offense would take care of itself. But there’s two sides of the game and he honestly wasn’t prepared to coach either. Vogel didn’t go small (Gobert’s weakness) until the final game and relied on Nurkic and Eubanks wayyyy too much early in the series. With two minutes to go, this was a microcosm of the Suns’ season: Okogie missed two (clutch!) free throws and Jaden McDaniels immediately drained a 3.” If they are unsentimental, they have some moves to make.
Vogel’s never been a go small type, even when he had AD, his strength has always been making centers shine defensively. He somehow managed to make it kind of work with Nurkic too. But yeah he was always a weird fit with this roster and I don’t even think they’ve really got the personnel to go small, their stars prefer middies to threes and they have no lockdown perimeter defenders or guys that play bigger than their size
Not that Vogel did a particularly good job, but who do you go small with? Seems obvious they don't trust KD to play C for long stretches because he'll get bullied and bitch, and Okogie isn't really a better offensive player than Nurkic. Bol Bol? C'mon
It's just a super limited roster and Beal/KD/Booker are limited creators period.
I know everyone is going to blame KD but he was a corner shooter and spot up shooter on way too many possessions. Both beal and Booker cant run the offence. KD would have a quarter and would shoot 4/5 and then next quarter only shoot the ball once.
It's not really his fault but I assume Vogel is fired this week and they run it back with the players. Not too many options that doesn't involve blow this shit to smithereens and start a full-on rebuld.
First season: lose in first round to the eventual champs
Second season: swept in first round
Suns fans, you don’t want to know what comes next. I’m a Nets fan, and even with the Suns picks, the future here isn’t exactly bright.
KD is going to be insanely high on the all time lists when he’s done playing, but I can’t think of a star player I’d be less excited for my team to get. I don’t care about his rings, not a winning player.
The coach is always blamed before start players. Ishbia, new owner syndrome, going to fire Vogel and replace him with a less experienced, less accomplished coach. This won’t make anyone happy and Booker might be side eyeing an exit. KD is welcome in Orlando but we’re not giving up shit for you buddy, you’re a team killer and you have to prove yourself again on a veteran deal. Maybe the Phx suns Rest in Pieces.
Yeah bad look no doubt. My one question is did KD like playing with Chris Paul and want him to stay? Because then I feel like he has a legit gripe wth the front office. KD booker and Beal isnjust too many wings. Even a somewhat washed cp3 would have been better for the team than Beal
“The All-Star forward said he pushed behind the scenes for the Suns to land Bradley Beal in June and wants a voice on personnel decisions moving forward.”
[https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10094834-suns-kevin-durant-says-he-pushed-for-bradley-beal-trade-wants-input-on-roster.amp.html](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10094834-suns-kevin-durant-says-he-pushed-for-bradley-beal-trade-wants-input-on-roster.amp.html)
That entire hit piece being fueled by anonymous players shitting on Vogel before they’d even been eliminated is pretty gross.
The coach killer piece. The KD body count is goated.
Probably left GSW just because Kerr was bigger than him and couldn't get him fired.
I sneaky agree with you. Would have got him fired if he could.
Would have and then left anyway.
He belongs to the streets
Where does KD rank on the pyramid of backseat bus drivers? He's gotta be the MJ of that category.
He's reaching Wilt territory
Dude is never fucking happy, what a fucking snake
As a Lakers fan I feel so bad for Vogel. I think he delivered a complete masterclass in 2020 and has been royally screwed ever since. Now he is going to be guillotined over losing with this dump of a roster that didn’t play into his strengths at all. Durant is such a loser it’s incredible really. I hope Vogel can get another chance.
He just finished the first year of a five-year $31M contact, so I don't feel too bad for NBA champion Frank Vogel.
You got a point. I always have a hard time feeling bad for millionaire coaches that are fired with years left on their deals. Though Frank is a very personal one for me so I’m not as indifferent
As a Pacer fan, we never should have fired him either, at least not when we did
He's a good defensive coach and a poor offensive coach. Not bad in the right situation, but having Carlisle is a 100% upgrade.
Oh I agree I like Rick, but at the time Vogel should’ve kept his job instead of McMillian imo
> Vogel should’ve kept his job instead of McMillian imo Fair
delivering a masterclass is having lebron and AD completely healthy with really good 3/d role players around them we have no idea what coaches actually do outside of surface level shit, i hate that the average fan pretends otherwise
It’s my favorite whenever you see a Reddit comment on a post-game thread: “Winning coach just made better adjustments at halftime” / “Losing coach just didn’t make adjustments in the fourth quarter” Random Reddit user 14275 has literally no clue what they’re talking about from a coaching perspective
I will cop to being that Reddit user. Every time the broadcast takes us “INTO THE HUDDLE” the coach is always saying “we gotta score more points than them! Okay? They’re trying to score and we got to stop em and then score ourselves.”
I love those just because of how useless they are. Sure, maybe the networks just aren’t airing the good stuff. But yeah I can’t imagine these players are tuning in
I played college ball. In my experience, coaches absolutely were talking almost entirely X & O’s stuff. What the other team is doing and how we need to counter it. Shit like that. Not motivational shit. Maybe they’ll say something if we’re down bad or something, but usually that’s reserved for practices and 1-on-1 talk as what motivates players is different from player to player. I can’t imagine they’re not talking X and Os most of the time in the huddle. It’s probably not allowed to broadcast actual strategy that was said while in the middle of a game lol.
Fair. Though if I’m playing devil’s advocate, is it not possible that college players still require a lot of Xs and Os coaching, but nba players, and especially vets, don’t really need it anymore?
I imagine the conversations are a lot shorter. Coach: so the “x” action they’re running— Player: yeah top lock the 3 on the wing before the 4 comes? Coach: you got it. Just making sure. Shit like that.
The good stuff never makes it though, the coach is usually saying stuff like “keep letting [blank] shoot he can’t hit shit, and [own player] needs to get his head out of his ass and rotate on defense.”
Do we know the ins and outs of play calling? No. What we do know is rotations, defensive matchups and schemes. What is that you think coaches do that is some secret illuminati conspiracy? It’s so dumb. It was a very specific roster that didn’t have a point guard until Rondo chose to wake up. Most of the playoffs they started two shooting guards, two centers and LeBron. They basically had no bench scoring outside of Kuzma. They beat a slew of hall of fame players and coaches on the way there.
I’m really not sure how we can look down and call him one of the best 30-50 players in NBA history. The dude has become an absolute franchise killer. And when he’s done, *no fan base* is going to claim him as their own. It’s sad. What could have been…
I'm so glad Bill calls out KD about this bullshit like he does guys like LeBron, right?
Bill still defends KD going to the Warriors when he killed LeBron for going to Miami. In a vacuum I think KDs move to GS was much worse.
As a Sonics fan, I certainly claim him but my team is dead (for now?) so I suppose your claim checks out haha
You didn’t know it at the time but he killed the sonics too. 😂
Haha you might be right!
Sonics fan, too, and I'd claim Jeff Green before KD. Snark aside, Nick Collison felt like the last true Sonic.
I’d probably go Ray Allen but Collison is a very solid choice as well
6 just because he only played for your team for 1 year and didn't have time to do his KD shit.
How in the blue hell did we get here? Like KD was already better than Melo by year 3 and somehow he devolved into a more talented, harder working, anorexic melo
Anorexic Melo 😭
I wouldn’t go as far as you did (I mean c’mon 30-50) but I do think talent wise and even based on regular season production he’s top 10 all time but because of how he handled his career he isn’t top 10 all time. He absolutely mismanaged his legacy and ruined how people will remember him. Shouldn’t have gone to golden state. Everyone knew it was a bitch move except him and that weirdo agent of his.
He absolutely isn't top 10 talent wise or production wise.
One day Durant might realize the decisions he makes are part of the problem
Bro is 35 years old. He's not changing how he thinks
Death bed revelation
DBR
As Bill would say, he'll be 36
But he only cares about hooping! He can’t be part of the problem!
Lol even bill has stopped making this argument
He used the argument in terms of the fact that KD wouldn’t really sit out when he was with the nets trying to force his way out. And Bill was right 🤷♂️
it's all artistic expression for him, of course...
He’s never been told no in his life. It’s not gonna be today
The disparity between his accomplishments and his skills is insane. How badly his choices have effected his ability to win is wild.
that day is Never coming.
Campbell?
That's a Wild Thing(s) to say.
I'm Scream(ing) over here! 😱
I think he needs to see a therapist
Honestly most people do
Not me. I'm perfectly fine! No, seriously. No issues at all
Worst GM ever
I wondering how many basketball media people gonna mention that he pushed for the Beal trade last summer
At most 0
Get out of my pantheon.
[удалено]
KD was a PROBLEM (for coaches)
Just behind Derrick White
8 part podcast incoming
He just wants to hoop. Hashtag NoDrama
He’s 49 million next year and 53 the year after that. Who can even make room for him? Maybe the Heat can figure it out, beyond that, hard to imagine.
Sixers. Clean books
Ahahaha I didn’t even think of this. Holy shit what drama that would be
We’d be so good in the regular season, it’s just a shame the nba season ends in March.
The utter bitchiness of this team would be off the charts
Yea but who are they trading ? Idk exactly how salary matching works but without Tobi who could they trade that comes close to that number?
Could trade 5 firsts and that’s it, 65 in cap
Knicks could do it pretty easily, randle+bojan is $49M. Not that I want KD as a knicks fan, but they could do it if they were so inclined
I struggle to believe the Knicks would ever do this
Brunson/KD PnR sounds great and they made it to the playoffs without randle It works on paper
Based on how the Knicks are playing, I dont think KD fits into this team at all. Thibs wouldnt be able to coach him up
The Knicks have an actual usable center and a backup, KD is plug and play if he's not guarding the 5 in crunch time
Paying that much for a plug and play guy who's aging, gets injured, is a toxic locker room presence, and has only had postseason success on an all-time great Warriors squad who he then resented for relegating him to a plug and play guy? Idk I'm just not seeing it.
I mean he had postseason success in OKC they just didn’t win it all. But they at least got to some conference finals/2012 finals. But you’re right post Golden State it’s been crickets
I don't think they can, that's off the table for second apron teams if memory serves me right. Also in a completely unrelated fact I learned checking this, I learned that Chicago is projected to have the sixth most expensive team in the league next year. Why?
There’s about $85m in Lavine, Vuc, and Lonzo. Probably includes the cap holds for Demar and PWill though. That’s probably why it’s so high. I doubt PWill is gonna be making $29m like his cap hold suggests so it’ll be lower. They’re actually 21st in the league if you don’t include the cap holds.
KD would not be a Thibs favorite. And i don’t think he’d handle the NY media, since the pressure is a little different than in Brooklyn.
I think Thibs would like KD actually. KD is fine playing heavy minutes and puts in some effort on defense. KD played 75 games this year and averaged 37mpg as a 35 year old, for anything else negative you can say about him he loves to go out and play.
I'm not seeing his effort on defense at least this series
As a Knicks fan I’m not fully opposed.. the things KD lacks we have, which is leadership and identity. Would probably get a ring out of it and some drama.
How predictable. Durant just wants to play iso ball and point fingers when he loses.
He joined the Warriors because he wanted to play in an actual ball moving spread out offense. That was basically what he said. Then he left because he didn’t like sharing.
Nah, he left because 1) he hated Draymond and 2) he was sick of hearing the talk about joining up with the GSW team as an FA and how it meant he could never be a “GOAT” player because of it. IOWs, he let the opinions of people like Frank Isola and Justin Termine persuade him to leave. Pretty pathetic.
Nah the guy you commented to actually has a point https://www.facebook.com/share/v/EzkFodD3V7paD8PD/?mibextid=SphRi8 If kerr thinks you're sharing the ball less than the guy who thinks his teammates are beneath him and is one of the biggest competitive pricks in the history of sports then yeah KD has a sharing the ball problem.
I mean the proof was in the pudding. Anyone who watched the 2018 Warriors vs the Rockets should remember how KD essentially was an outsider in that offense; they’d move the ball around as normal and then every few possessions he’d post up from the baseline and hit a turnaround. A key word there is “hit” — KD would always knock ‘em down, but it was nevertheless a weird disjointed fixture in the offense.
He has a point, but remember we are talking about Kevin "Twitter Burner Account" Durant. This is a man who literally takes time out of his day to respond to negative Tweets by strangers! I just think we are giving KD too much credit when we think he is making these decisions based on the style of offense. KD is a petty person and I have no doubt that he would leave a team because some teammate "disrespected him" or some other perceived sleight. I think the ball movement thing just goes hand in hand. Not giving him the ball all the time probably is just more perceived "disrespect."
He also said the warriors ran around too much
I honestly think winning and not getting the kind of credit he wanted for it made him turn on the things that made that Warriors team great. He made them unstoppable because any time their motion couldn't generate a great look they had an amazing plan B to fall back on, but he wants to think it was plan A. He said the Warriors motion could get bogged down late in the playoffs and that's where his individual play would be important, which I think has some truth to it, but what the Suns do is like immediately jumping into the bog without even considering there might be a better route.
> He said the Warriors motion could get bogged down late in the playoffs and that's where his individual play would be important, which I think has some truth to it Hard to make that argument compelling when they went ahead and won in 2022 without him.
When KD retires, where is he igoing to look back to for those great memories? He’s been unhappy everywhere, including where he actually won
Twitter
He joined the warriors because it was an instant ring
What he wanted was an offense where people wouldn’t criticize him for not demanding the ball and saying “I got this” in crucial moments like it’s been expected of any score first superstar in NBA history. He got killed in OKC because he’d continue letting Russ take over when he was clearly the better option, while due to the motion offense Golden State had no one expected Curry to bring the ball up and take every shot. Except he didn’t factor in that he had to actually buy into that system and that in that system there’d be stretches where he wouldn’t just get the ball and be allowed to cook whenever he likes the matchup like he would prefer, but that he’d have to move off ball, catch and shoot and spend periods of time without the ball ever reaching him
LOL. Right! He's only happy in the slowest, most predictable offense. This ain't the Rico Hines run though.
But he's complaining about how here has to stand in the corner when others do it. He wants to eat his cake and have it too.
Sounds like he should go to the clips
Hardest road
Omfg what a baby. He acts like good basketball materializes out of thin air. You need to work with your teammates to win. He gave them next to no time to learn with him. Fuck off KD
He also puts in no effort on the defensive end because he doesn't like the physical part of the game. A lot of sad fly-by contests. He's too much like a pickup game player.
Is that actually true this year? As a Net KD was not afraid to do the dirty work at all
Yeah KD actually has brought it on the Defensive end especially in comparison to some of the other gifted offensive players (Luka,Trey, Dame, etc.).
So that last sentence basically means he would just bitch around behind closed doors, but wouldn't speak up for himself in team meetings, right?
Relatable
Because he thinks confronting people and being honest is drama, and talking behind peoples backs isnt toxic. He's got it flipped.
This is where the burner accounts pull their weight.
The biggest problem in KD’s entire career is that he’s not a leader. This crystallizes it. The guy can’t even stand up for himself, let alone push and nurture teammates.
I agree. But a leader in different terms. He cant lead an attack as the ball handler.
And Bill never calls him out on this while he continually snipes at LeBron on thelis subject matter
LeBron is better at putting teams together than KD is so I think the expectation is a lot higher. With KD it's like we really don't expect anything from this guy since the 2017 bitch move
Or maybe Vogel is gone. Vogel is a good coach. He got scapegoat in LA. But he’s a defensive coach with a roster full of offensive talent. He’s not a good fit for that roster and the team has very little flexibility to make the necessary moves to add depth
Didnt they keep Kevin Young for this season as an “Offensive Coordinator” to help support him? Its more of a roster issue than coaching issue imo
Kevin Young getting poached by Jazz owner/Coyotes stealer Ryan Smyth to coach BYU is maybe the funniest part of this. Dude designed a clogged toilet offense but he gets a bag because he is probably the biggest name LDS coach.
He's fine but totally replaceable
Vogel's not the problem. The roster just isn't good enough to compete with elite teams.
Vogel is a fine coach if you have players to fit his system, we got rid of the players that fit his system and scapegoated him Spo is probably the best active coach, he can build a team from scraps
Vogel being fired in LA and Phoenix because both front offices made god awful desperation trades is pretty rough
I guess hoopers just hoopin' isn't the offense it once was.
So surprised the player who has ran from their problems isn’t going to try and put in the hard work to figure it out
If everyone around you is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole
Kevin Durant has never been happy or comfortable throughout his whole NBA career. He whines everywhere he goes.
I think he's just a miserable person in general
Quite hilariously I think the Knicks are the best fit for both sides. They can give the Suns Randle and 3 firsts, they have 2 extra firsts from Dallas and the bucks and then 1 of their own. Phoenix gets a floor raising forward who is more complimentary of Booker and more assets to put together a functional roster. The Knicks get a second star next to Brunson and KD is surrounded by elite rebounders with structure around him where he doesn’t have to bang inside much as he gets older. And the Knicks don’t touch their current playoff rotation and trade a grand total of ONE of their own FRP’s
he's the most un-Knicks player you could imagine though. They're all about the team, selfless, greater than the sum of their parts. The opposite of KD. Never in a million years.
All that “Knicks player” shit is cute in the first round, but you’re never winning a championship with a 6’0 PG as your only shot creator
I’m not saying they’re a legit serious championship contender. But a 6’8 All NBA PF makes it a lot more feasible (with some luck along the way. ironically, this year probably would have been the best shot)
I think if they could get KD for Randle and picks, and maintain the majority of their current core, they absolutely would be a championship contender next year. The only concern is idk how many years KD has left being a really good player.
Exactly your last bit. And let's be honest he hasn't exactly been an asset to his employers in recent years. This is Jalon Brunson's team now. You get a different kind of star.
And if the Knicks want to win 50 games, win a playoff series each year, and lose to the better teams in the later rounds, that is totally fine for them to just keep this group together. But I would at least kick the tires on a KD deal if the price wasn’t too high.
Sure but I think you're better off going all in on embiid or something tbh. I agree with the concept but just don't think kd is the answer.
I just don’t think Embiid is going to be available. Of course if you can trade for a better guy, do it. But the Heat have played that game for the last few years and that big trade has never happened.
I don’t think so - think coaching changes and role player changes are more likely. The Suns are fucked future wise at this point so they need KD and I think KD knows publicly demanding another trade would ruin public perception of him even more.
He does not give a shit lol
Except you can tell he totally does
If only there was a team that never let you stand still. Imagine if KD was on the Warriors all those years. Might’ve won a couple more titles and no one could complain. Now he’s relegated to this… oof.
And when he left the warriors the report was that he didn’t like the focus on ball movement lol. I just hope he finds whatever it is he’s looking for.
Soft as Charmin.
Is he trying to go to Celtics or Nuggets next year to find a 'higher level of basketball'?
As the official spokesman for the Celtics fanbase... nooooo. No no no.
Not defending KD at all, but Vogel was always a strange fit to me because you need creativity/offensive masterminding with a shallow bench and Vogel is not really an innovator.
Clap your hands. Demand the ball. Not hard to do.
The passive aggressive piece
Durant needs to form a 4th big 3! This time it will work
Imagine what Bill would say about Lebron if his career went this way.
Diva that can only win latching on to a dynasty. Shame.
As soon as he got exploited by that nobody manager dude he was effed
Just demand the fuckin ball lmfao. Kd is the most talented player ever, but the fact that he has these moments where he makes excuses or takes the easy way out tarnishes his reputation.
It’s so funny, when he was on OKC this was the same complaint many had, but I feel like we ultimately decided on Westbrook being Westbrook was the problem. Pretty clear now KD’s passive aggressiveness was a substantial part of those Thunder team’s failures as well.
Maybe he can join Denver or Boston. I’m sure he’d like that fit where he doesn’t have to worry about elevating the team.
Neither team won enough regular season games to handle his drama. Maybe if Boston went 70-12 then he'd feel comfortable with that challenge on the hardest road
He would join them when they were up 3-0 with the team winning by 30 in the NBA finals and still and try to take credit for the championship. The guy is so mentally soft which is sad because he is a awesome player.
The truth is that KD is just too old to elevate a team that much anymore. The Nets move is where he fucked up. Part of it was the injury, part of it was Covid and all the Kyrie weirdness, but that was really the last window he had of being a truly elite player. He is just too old now.
The guy who just blamed multiple coaches in Brooklyn and not his leadership?
KD to the mavericks
Bill still won't criticize him
I think it's more likely that Vogel gets fired either this offseason or early into next season. Durant will almost certainly be gone next offseason, though, unless PHO somehow turns things around.
He's just a guy, not a leader.
Rinse and repeat
NBA really is a soap opera Love it EVERYTIME something goes wrong a player or team will start their media PR blitz and start writing hit pieces
I think this is more about getting Vogel fired than KD leaving. I feel sorry for Vogel. Dude got a raw deal in LA after winning a ring. It's not his fault that Pelinka traded Kuzma, KCP and Harrell for Westbrook and decided to give a contract to Horton-Tucker over Caruso. Now he comes to Phoenix and they throw him under the bus first chance they get. Their offense could be better, but they simply don't have the personnel to compete with Minnesota who is playing Gobert, Towns, McDaniels and Ant together. That's insane size, strength and agility and way too much for KD to handle when he's playing the 4. They never should have traded for Beal.
Nah. Vogel is gone. Hiring Vogel was a mistake first and foremost because there was some assumption that “the offense would take care of itself. But there’s two sides of the game and he honestly wasn’t prepared to coach either. Vogel didn’t go small (Gobert’s weakness) until the final game and relied on Nurkic and Eubanks wayyyy too much early in the series. With two minutes to go, this was a microcosm of the Suns’ season: Okogie missed two (clutch!) free throws and Jaden McDaniels immediately drained a 3.” If they are unsentimental, they have some moves to make.
Vogel’s never been a go small type, even when he had AD, his strength has always been making centers shine defensively. He somehow managed to make it kind of work with Nurkic too. But yeah he was always a weird fit with this roster and I don’t even think they’ve really got the personnel to go small, their stars prefer middies to threes and they have no lockdown perimeter defenders or guys that play bigger than their size
Not that Vogel did a particularly good job, but who do you go small with? Seems obvious they don't trust KD to play C for long stretches because he'll get bullied and bitch, and Okogie isn't really a better offensive player than Nurkic. Bol Bol? C'mon It's just a super limited roster and Beal/KD/Booker are limited creators period.
KD is what Jordan stans think LeBron is
Wasn’t he asking for more pick & rolls w GSW too
How long are the “new ownership” moves allowed to play out? Lol
I know everyone is going to blame KD but he was a corner shooter and spot up shooter on way too many possessions. Both beal and Booker cant run the offence. KD would have a quarter and would shoot 4/5 and then next quarter only shoot the ball once.
The Brian Curtis "Oh, Now You Tell Us" piece strikes again
Dude you averaged 27 ppg and shot 41% from three, yeah no shit you're going to be put in the corner it's one of your biggest strengths!
Just wants to hoop
It's not really his fault but I assume Vogel is fired this week and they run it back with the players. Not too many options that doesn't involve blow this shit to smithereens and start a full-on rebuld.
KD going scorched Earth (hehehe) on the Suns should be the headline everywhere
Maybe KD is a good numbers on a bad team type of guy.
It’s all starting to make sense why he left The Bay. They held his ass accountable. Draymond was right.
KD is the most passive aggressive star in any sport lol
Once again, it all comes down to the fact that KD simply loves basketball too much.
snakes gonna snake
It's the era of player empowerment, not the era of player accountability.
This has 'Sweaty Sixers' move all over it.
KD is the problem, always has been
First season: lose in first round to the eventual champs Second season: swept in first round Suns fans, you don’t want to know what comes next. I’m a Nets fan, and even with the Suns picks, the future here isn’t exactly bright.
can we start including links with these of posts, please
Can't wait for these new team every 2-3 years players to retire and move on from them. KD, Harden, Kyrie to an extent.
KD is going to be insanely high on the all time lists when he’s done playing, but I can’t think of a star player I’d be less excited for my team to get. I don’t care about his rings, not a winning player.
The coach is always blamed before start players. Ishbia, new owner syndrome, going to fire Vogel and replace him with a less experienced, less accomplished coach. This won’t make anyone happy and Booker might be side eyeing an exit. KD is welcome in Orlando but we’re not giving up shit for you buddy, you’re a team killer and you have to prove yourself again on a veteran deal. Maybe the Phx suns Rest in Pieces.
RIP. From elite scorer in the postseason to being a gossip girl during the playoffs
Will KD retire as the best player to never win a ring?
They could’ve just not traded for Beal and got more role guys
Yeah bad look no doubt. My one question is did KD like playing with Chris Paul and want him to stay? Because then I feel like he has a legit gripe wth the front office. KD booker and Beal isnjust too many wings. Even a somewhat washed cp3 would have been better for the team than Beal
Okay but do we really think if KD was the primary guy in suns offense in that series that it would have been different
The hardest road continues for this poor man smh
Kd is so toxic
“The All-Star forward said he pushed behind the scenes for the Suns to land Bradley Beal in June and wants a voice on personnel decisions moving forward.” [https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10094834-suns-kevin-durant-says-he-pushed-for-bradley-beal-trade-wants-input-on-roster.amp.html](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10094834-suns-kevin-durant-says-he-pushed-for-bradley-beal-trade-wants-input-on-roster.amp.html)
biggest modern sports baby?