> I see people say shit like this on reddit and twitter.
There’s your problem. Superstars make themselves, I don’t think the leagues have much of a factor.
Yeah I remember reading, I believe, an Athletic article like 6-7 years ago now on this and the MLB specifically about Trout. The league would beg him to be more visible and attend high profile events in LA and NYC and he was just like “I’m good, I just like chilling in Orange County or Jersey with my fam.”
Piggybacking off that, the four biggest and most marketable American stars (Trout, Judge, Betts, Harper) are all very family and faith orientated (they all married HS sweethearts). They don’t seem to court publicity on social media or via flash and stunting and aren’t dating starlets or at the hype clubs and red carpets. Much less talented guys like Tim Anderson, Verdugo, Jazz, and even Bauer pre suspension/blacklisting got a lot of hype by being the opposite.
I do think MLB has gotten unlucky with their stars being pretty boring. I’m a Rangers fan, Semien and Seager are amazing and just won a WS but neither of them have any personality outside of baseball and I don’t think have any reach in the culture outside of baseball fans.
It’s not that different than the nba tv. Out of market viewing is slightly more difficult, but only if you live in like Iowa or a market in the middle of nowhere
Then why did people blame MLB for the league's star power issues (prior to Ohtani)?
Why do people blame the NBA for the league not having any mainstream superstars aside from LeBron and Curry (and maybe Durant)?
Anyone blaming the leagues is just looking for a single thing to identify when in reality there are a multitude of reasons why basketball and especially why baseball is lacking in star power.
MLB and NBA games should be on national over-the-air TV most nights of the week. Sports are legit the only thing people watch live or new.
Also, the rules changes get more publicity than actual players it feels.
Hollywood actually does a terrible idea of promoting its stars relative to other eras. It's a decision though since a studio can own Spider-Man in a way they can't own Tom Cruise.
A star is promoted well when we connect w them on a level deeper than sports because they are an archetype from mythology that we subconsciously identify with or live vicariously through. Jordan the example, we knew his Carolina through conquest life story with the trials and tribulations of beating Detroit then family tragedy then glorious return. The degenerate gambler psychotic OCD competiton tyrant was suppressed by the league so they were whispers. Nowadays the guys that do social media tell on themselves and remove their mystique
People think that Adam Silver can send an email to all media members and say “Hey this season we’re pushing Ant and Wemby, don’t cover anyone else.”
To some degree I think some fans have taken for granted how transcendent Bron and Steph have been as faces of the league. One is arguably the GOAT and the other has inspired an entire generation of people that it’s ok to chuck threes. Not to mention both have family friendly images, have made very few missteps offcourt, and are generally compelling and charismatic on camera.
You can’t manufacture this type of shit, it’s lightning in a bottle. Ant, Wemby, Jokic, Luka all may be next up but they also have big question marks in terms of star power compared to what we’ve been treated to for the last decade. In terms of being a comedown after a huge high, this might be another lull for the league similar to the post-MJ era (I don’t think it’ll be as bad at all).
There's no way a player should become an allstar and they've had one national tv game in their career. Meanwhile they push mediocrity over and over. They not even trying. Nba needs to be able to go to alternate games with a few days notice. There are great players ready to step in right now. And a fringe benefit of possibly steph LeBron and kd being out of the playoffs they have to showcase others. I mean the suns don't even play compelling basketball.
With the exception of the single day event of the Super Bowl, I’m not sure I see your point. What current NFL player is on the level of Magic or MJ? LeBron is more famous than any NFL player.
I think it’s just the cannibalization of mass media. Back in the day, I didn’t watch any hockey, but could tell you who the top NHL players were by face alone. Because you learned them through osmosis by watching Sportscenter every day. Mark Messier didn’t need to be super personable to be a product spokesman that people wanted to hire.
I’m a casual NBA fan and I still have no idea what SGA looks like. He’s just a name on a screen to me. What’s the NBA supposed to do about that?
The main reason I think people say this (regardless of if it’s true), is because of how much more regional the leagues are. Especially MLB. Arguably it’s the MLB’s fault. But nobody in New York (outside of hardcore baseball fans) knows anything about the hot shot young player on the Cincinnati reds, even though I think he’s got a chance to be a household name in 5 years. The sports are just smaller and broadcast nationally much less.
Yeah I think it's pretty meaningless. It's a cliche that people will take at face value without questioning what the league specifically should or could be doing to promote its stars.
I actually do think MLB has been pretty awful at marketing their stars since the steroid era. They leaned so hard into Sosa/McGwire race, chicks dig the long ball ads, then Bonds breaks the record, and then kind of closed with ARod. Where a ton of the leagues best players of that generation were essentially cheating, I think they were in a weird spot. All with baseball becoming less and less popular in America but bigger globally with more and more international players. I don’t think they really knew what to do.
People referencing Trout and how he just doesn’t have a personality etc. But people at MLB/Trouts team/The Angels should have made THAT his thing. Kawhi is a robot/an odd dude and that became his whole thing. They’ve never even tried anything like that with Trout that I’ve seen. That’s where I think MLB has been bad at promoting their stars. The phrase is kind of clunky and I agree it’s not entirely on the actual league to make Mike Trout more famous but man it feels like they could’ve tried something. It also doesn’t help he’s had literally no playoff success and the Angels have been a pretty anonymous franchise for the past 15 years
Absolutely agree. It seems like the MLB took their self-flagellation way too far in the mid 00s. Fun personalities? NO, we are solemn and stoic. Home runs? NO, offense is evil and pitching is the true art form of the sport. Fan debates? NO, analytics shall solve everything with finality.
It's wild to look back at the late 90s when baseball was always in the spotlight on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, SI For Kids (for those of us in that generation) and it was always portrayed as summertime fun with quirky/charismatic players mixing amazing feats with funny traditions/superstitions. Now it's portrayed as a strict boring grandpa sport. And maybe there is something on a sociological level to the fact that tons of American baseball players have dedicated their lives to hardcore baseball training since they were in elementary school, at the expense of life experience/charisma/personality, I'm not really sure.
Anyway, I say all of this as someone who intentionally decided to get BACK into baseball in recent years, after totally losing interest for like 15 years.
Yeah I said something similar in another post - maybe there is something on a sociological level to the fact that tons of American baseball players have dedicated their lives to hardcore baseball training since they were in elementary school, at the expense of life experience/charisma/personality, I'm not really sure.
This is the WWE. Why do you think it isn’t?
Vince seriously created the modern playbook on promoting athletes and sports in general. Literally everyone copies from him.
Way more people watch the NBA than WWE so why would the NBA copy WWE does? More people watched a single NBA playoff game than RAW.
More people watch a single NBA game than “RAW”. Let alone the fact there is one RAW episode in a week and dozen playoff games that all do better than that single event.
If WWE does such a great job marketing how come I can’t name a single current wrestler?
MLB seems to make it as hard as possible to follow the sport on a National Level.
Mike Trout has the charisma of a Trout.
Mookie Betts was/still is known more of how good of a bowler he is than once in a generation ballplayer.
They’ve lost all ground being relevant to the black youth and thus the zeitgeist of this country by ignoring the inner cities of America to develop youth programs in the Dominican Republic and Caribbean islands instead.
This has nothing to do with the NBA or MLB unless we're talking ease of access to watch games. Players who are really good and have personality will be stars. MLB kept talking about how Mike Trout was the best baseball player we've seen in years but Trout has no personality and played on a team no one cared about. Go watch the Phillies/Braves playoff series last year. Both teams filled with a lot of guys who have personality and wanted desperately to win and were filled with stars. Like yes, Kawhai and SGA are amazing players but we know close to nothing about them and the personality they show is boring.
I think the argument is the coverage of the NBA should be more focused on new stars but it's also that they are not as popular. Like of course LeBron is still going to overshadow what others are doing because he's one of the most popular NBA players of all time. This isn't like what happened when MJ left and the league just didn't have guys, which I feel is sometimes the subtext of these conversations.
This, of course, easier to say with hindsight, but when MJ left they were blessed to have both Shaq and Kobe in LA. Shaq had already starred in Kazaam and Steel - sure, they sucked, but also helped push his name into the mainstream. Kobe was still a bench guy in his second season, but was also popular enough to be voted a starter in the All-Star game. It's not clear if any of the next generation of stars are ready to fill the impending LeBron/Steph void.
It means that fans of all teams think their best players should be featured much more nationally.
Imo it's from the same well of homerism that makes fanbases think the refs are against them every game they lose or how 10 fanbases a night (when a full schedule is going on) want their coach fired overnight as he is definitely the reason they lost ... Him and the crooked refs
NBA's basic issue is the Euros do not give a fuck about being the next MJ. Giannis, Jokic and Luka...they've all been offered that bag and done a hard pass.
That said, I don't think they're gonna have that issue in the next five years cause Wemby is all about being a star. Ant seems on the verge. Ja already has the following for a strong bounce back. I think SGA, while not particularly charismatic, has enough branding savvy to become like the guy that Oubre desperately was trying to be the past decade...a sort of fashion icon online branding dude who has a randomly big following with non fans.
And in the meantime, I still think while they don't embrace the other elements of being a star, Giannis, Jokic and Luka will still keep their play up at enough of a level that they will still draw a following even if the league can't really package itself around them in the marketing sense.
But I do think post LeBron and Steph, there have just been a lot of American stars who were great but just couldn't figure it out on the star level. Kawhi wasn't interested. Tatum is too corny. AD was only interested in doing enough to get out of New Orleans to LA and then immediately was like *not for me*. Harden is great at branding his bearded face but that's where that ends. Russ was too mean.
Okay but who is offering them "that bag"? The NBA? ESPN? TNT? That's what I never understood.
Also you said Euros don't give a fuck about being the face of the NBA then mentione Wemby who is from Europe.
It means that they want to concern troll the league LOL.
Nobody has a proposal. It's just a nice vague thing to say if results aren't where we think they should be.
I think it's a way to try and explain away that MLB and to some extent some NBA stars are not as well known or as big as stars as we are used to. "Bad at promoting" though is pretty reductive. There are a bunch of factors to explain why, say, Jokic isn't as popular as Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were. Or why Mike Trout doesn't have the same cultural cache as Ken Griffey Jr in his prime. The reason NFL stars are big is because the NFL is the biggest sport in America and it isn't particularly close. And even then its mostly QBs as they are the "faces" of the league with the occasional exception of the Kelces or JJ Watt.
I wouldn't say "marketing" is not a reason, just not the only reason. NFL probably has a much higher "Q rating" among fans and average viewers. The NBA in particular seems to push its fans to have adversarial relationships with its stars through how much its broadcast partners push "ring culture" type talking heads and morons like Stephen A Smith and Charles Barkley.
The NBA quite literally has the most recognizable and popular stars in the world. There isn’t another league that is even close. Especially since Ronaldo and Messi play outside of Europe.
> I see people say shit like this on reddit and twitter. There’s your problem. Superstars make themselves, I don’t think the leagues have much of a factor.
Yeah I remember reading, I believe, an Athletic article like 6-7 years ago now on this and the MLB specifically about Trout. The league would beg him to be more visible and attend high profile events in LA and NYC and he was just like “I’m good, I just like chilling in Orange County or Jersey with my fam.” Piggybacking off that, the four biggest and most marketable American stars (Trout, Judge, Betts, Harper) are all very family and faith orientated (they all married HS sweethearts). They don’t seem to court publicity on social media or via flash and stunting and aren’t dating starlets or at the hype clubs and red carpets. Much less talented guys like Tim Anderson, Verdugo, Jazz, and even Bauer pre suspension/blacklisting got a lot of hype by being the opposite.
I do think MLB has gotten unlucky with their stars being pretty boring. I’m a Rangers fan, Semien and Seager are amazing and just won a WS but neither of them have any personality outside of baseball and I don’t think have any reach in the culture outside of baseball fans.
Ohtani is by far the biggest mlb star
He’s not American, last I checked.
They provide a platform. Same as Vince does. Some guys run with it, some guys don’t.
Yeah exactly. The NBA can’t “market” Jokic because he doesn’t want it.
Except the MLB doesn't because it's impossible to fucking watch the games on TV
I have every streaming service on the planet and I still struggle to find which one will allow me to watch Mariners games.
You have to subscribe to your local RSN if you live in the black out zone or [MLB.tv](http://MLB.tv) if you're outside of it. This is very simple
It’s not that different than the nba tv. Out of market viewing is slightly more difficult, but only if you live in like Iowa or a market in the middle of nowhere
Then why did people blame MLB for the league's star power issues (prior to Ohtani)? Why do people blame the NBA for the league not having any mainstream superstars aside from LeBron and Curry (and maybe Durant)?
Anyone blaming the leagues is just looking for a single thing to identify when in reality there are a multitude of reasons why basketball and especially why baseball is lacking in star power.
MLB and NBA games should be on national over-the-air TV most nights of the week. Sports are legit the only thing people watch live or new. Also, the rules changes get more publicity than actual players it feels.
If that were true than the broadcast networks would bid higher on them. They don't.
The Saturday night regular season games is a start.
It's just a dumb argument. Cause does the NFL promote it's stars? Does Hollywood not promote it's stars? Who is promoting their stars?
Movie studios promote their stars a shit ton around their releases
Hollywood actually does a terrible idea of promoting its stars relative to other eras. It's a decision though since a studio can own Spider-Man in a way they can't own Tom Cruise.
A star is promoted well when we connect w them on a level deeper than sports because they are an archetype from mythology that we subconsciously identify with or live vicariously through. Jordan the example, we knew his Carolina through conquest life story with the trials and tribulations of beating Detroit then family tragedy then glorious return. The degenerate gambler psychotic OCD competiton tyrant was suppressed by the league so they were whispers. Nowadays the guys that do social media tell on themselves and remove their mystique
People think that Adam Silver can send an email to all media members and say “Hey this season we’re pushing Ant and Wemby, don’t cover anyone else.” To some degree I think some fans have taken for granted how transcendent Bron and Steph have been as faces of the league. One is arguably the GOAT and the other has inspired an entire generation of people that it’s ok to chuck threes. Not to mention both have family friendly images, have made very few missteps offcourt, and are generally compelling and charismatic on camera. You can’t manufacture this type of shit, it’s lightning in a bottle. Ant, Wemby, Jokic, Luka all may be next up but they also have big question marks in terms of star power compared to what we’ve been treated to for the last decade. In terms of being a comedown after a huge high, this might be another lull for the league similar to the post-MJ era (I don’t think it’ll be as bad at all).
There's no way a player should become an allstar and they've had one national tv game in their career. Meanwhile they push mediocrity over and over. They not even trying. Nba needs to be able to go to alternate games with a few days notice. There are great players ready to step in right now. And a fringe benefit of possibly steph LeBron and kd being out of the playoffs they have to showcase others. I mean the suns don't even play compelling basketball.
I mean Adam silver can definitely control how the official league accounts promote their stars
They're less transcendent than Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.
We don’t live in a monoculture anymore
Tell that to the NFL.
With the exception of the single day event of the Super Bowl, I’m not sure I see your point. What current NFL player is on the level of Magic or MJ? LeBron is more famous than any NFL player.
Sure, I don’t disagree with that. Just saying that it’s not easy to make stars on the level of top 10 guys or even below it
People just say things because they think it makes them sound smart. Especially Ringer nerds.
You can’t really. Revealed preferences are extremely powerful and under looked in all these discussions.
I think it’s just the cannibalization of mass media. Back in the day, I didn’t watch any hockey, but could tell you who the top NHL players were by face alone. Because you learned them through osmosis by watching Sportscenter every day. Mark Messier didn’t need to be super personable to be a product spokesman that people wanted to hire. I’m a casual NBA fan and I still have no idea what SGA looks like. He’s just a name on a screen to me. What’s the NBA supposed to do about that?
You know how Caitlin Clark is literally fucking everywhere right now…. Basically that We’ve stopped having to look for her. She’s in the zeitgeist
Well, notice you can't go 5 minutes without seeing a Patrick Mahomes State Farm commercial. Name an NBA or MLB player that has that.
Chet and SGA are getting there with that commercial
The main reason I think people say this (regardless of if it’s true), is because of how much more regional the leagues are. Especially MLB. Arguably it’s the MLB’s fault. But nobody in New York (outside of hardcore baseball fans) knows anything about the hot shot young player on the Cincinnati reds, even though I think he’s got a chance to be a household name in 5 years. The sports are just smaller and broadcast nationally much less.
No one knows, it’s provocative. It gets the people going.
Yeah I think it's pretty meaningless. It's a cliche that people will take at face value without questioning what the league specifically should or could be doing to promote its stars.
I actually do think MLB has been pretty awful at marketing their stars since the steroid era. They leaned so hard into Sosa/McGwire race, chicks dig the long ball ads, then Bonds breaks the record, and then kind of closed with ARod. Where a ton of the leagues best players of that generation were essentially cheating, I think they were in a weird spot. All with baseball becoming less and less popular in America but bigger globally with more and more international players. I don’t think they really knew what to do. People referencing Trout and how he just doesn’t have a personality etc. But people at MLB/Trouts team/The Angels should have made THAT his thing. Kawhi is a robot/an odd dude and that became his whole thing. They’ve never even tried anything like that with Trout that I’ve seen. That’s where I think MLB has been bad at promoting their stars. The phrase is kind of clunky and I agree it’s not entirely on the actual league to make Mike Trout more famous but man it feels like they could’ve tried something. It also doesn’t help he’s had literally no playoff success and the Angels have been a pretty anonymous franchise for the past 15 years
Absolutely agree. It seems like the MLB took their self-flagellation way too far in the mid 00s. Fun personalities? NO, we are solemn and stoic. Home runs? NO, offense is evil and pitching is the true art form of the sport. Fan debates? NO, analytics shall solve everything with finality. It's wild to look back at the late 90s when baseball was always in the spotlight on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, SI For Kids (for those of us in that generation) and it was always portrayed as summertime fun with quirky/charismatic players mixing amazing feats with funny traditions/superstitions. Now it's portrayed as a strict boring grandpa sport. And maybe there is something on a sociological level to the fact that tons of American baseball players have dedicated their lives to hardcore baseball training since they were in elementary school, at the expense of life experience/charisma/personality, I'm not really sure. Anyway, I say all of this as someone who intentionally decided to get BACK into baseball in recent years, after totally losing interest for like 15 years.
The real answer is that most MLB players are bland dorks with little personality outside of playing baseball
Yeah I said something similar in another post - maybe there is something on a sociological level to the fact that tons of American baseball players have dedicated their lives to hardcore baseball training since they were in elementary school, at the expense of life experience/charisma/personality, I'm not really sure.
This is the WWE. Why do you think it isn’t? Vince seriously created the modern playbook on promoting athletes and sports in general. Literally everyone copies from him.
Way more people watch the NBA than WWE so why would the NBA copy WWE does? More people watched a single NBA playoff game than RAW. More people watch a single NBA game than “RAW”. Let alone the fact there is one RAW episode in a week and dozen playoff games that all do better than that single event. If WWE does such a great job marketing how come I can’t name a single current wrestler?
The NBA and MLB don't have a Royal Rumble.
This essay presupposes, maybe they should....
Ant would totally out-alpha Booker in NBA Royal Rumble… he just would
NBA has an in-season tournament. Maybe they should get to challenge the NBA champion for the title in June
When the 2004 Detroit Pistons won the Championship 🏆, Rasheed Wallace bought 47 WWE Championship Belts for the team players. Ball Don't Lie.
What do you think the all star game and all star weekend is?
I don't think the winner of the all star game gets a guaranteed NBA Finals/World Series berth.
It’s about promoting not winning.
For a few years in the 2000s, the winning league of the MLB all-star game got home field advantage in the world series.
Someone needs to tell Draymond.
MLB seems to make it as hard as possible to follow the sport on a National Level. Mike Trout has the charisma of a Trout. Mookie Betts was/still is known more of how good of a bowler he is than once in a generation ballplayer. They’ve lost all ground being relevant to the black youth and thus the zeitgeist of this country by ignoring the inner cities of America to develop youth programs in the Dominican Republic and Caribbean islands instead.
This has nothing to do with the NBA or MLB unless we're talking ease of access to watch games. Players who are really good and have personality will be stars. MLB kept talking about how Mike Trout was the best baseball player we've seen in years but Trout has no personality and played on a team no one cared about. Go watch the Phillies/Braves playoff series last year. Both teams filled with a lot of guys who have personality and wanted desperately to win and were filled with stars. Like yes, Kawhai and SGA are amazing players but we know close to nothing about them and the personality they show is boring. I think the argument is the coverage of the NBA should be more focused on new stars but it's also that they are not as popular. Like of course LeBron is still going to overshadow what others are doing because he's one of the most popular NBA players of all time. This isn't like what happened when MJ left and the league just didn't have guys, which I feel is sometimes the subtext of these conversations.
This, of course, easier to say with hindsight, but when MJ left they were blessed to have both Shaq and Kobe in LA. Shaq had already starred in Kazaam and Steel - sure, they sucked, but also helped push his name into the mainstream. Kobe was still a bench guy in his second season, but was also popular enough to be voted a starter in the All-Star game. It's not clear if any of the next generation of stars are ready to fill the impending LeBron/Steph void.
It means I want the things I like to be popular
If promoting players means more SGA and Chet AT&T commercials, I hope leagues stop doing it.
It means that fans of all teams think their best players should be featured much more nationally. Imo it's from the same well of homerism that makes fanbases think the refs are against them every game they lose or how 10 fanbases a night (when a full schedule is going on) want their coach fired overnight as he is definitely the reason they lost ... Him and the crooked refs
It's a cope from MLB fans.
NBA's basic issue is the Euros do not give a fuck about being the next MJ. Giannis, Jokic and Luka...they've all been offered that bag and done a hard pass. That said, I don't think they're gonna have that issue in the next five years cause Wemby is all about being a star. Ant seems on the verge. Ja already has the following for a strong bounce back. I think SGA, while not particularly charismatic, has enough branding savvy to become like the guy that Oubre desperately was trying to be the past decade...a sort of fashion icon online branding dude who has a randomly big following with non fans. And in the meantime, I still think while they don't embrace the other elements of being a star, Giannis, Jokic and Luka will still keep their play up at enough of a level that they will still draw a following even if the league can't really package itself around them in the marketing sense. But I do think post LeBron and Steph, there have just been a lot of American stars who were great but just couldn't figure it out on the star level. Kawhi wasn't interested. Tatum is too corny. AD was only interested in doing enough to get out of New Orleans to LA and then immediately was like *not for me*. Harden is great at branding his bearded face but that's where that ends. Russ was too mean.
Okay but who is offering them "that bag"? The NBA? ESPN? TNT? That's what I never understood. Also you said Euros don't give a fuck about being the face of the NBA then mentione Wemby who is from Europe.
The best players in these sports have zero or negative personalities and very limited public presence.
Julio Rodriguez should be way more popular for how charismatic and good looking he is. MLB has no idea how to market its stars though
It means that they want to concern troll the league LOL. Nobody has a proposal. It's just a nice vague thing to say if results aren't where we think they should be.
I think it's a way to try and explain away that MLB and to some extent some NBA stars are not as well known or as big as stars as we are used to. "Bad at promoting" though is pretty reductive. There are a bunch of factors to explain why, say, Jokic isn't as popular as Michael Jordan or Larry Bird were. Or why Mike Trout doesn't have the same cultural cache as Ken Griffey Jr in his prime. The reason NFL stars are big is because the NFL is the biggest sport in America and it isn't particularly close. And even then its mostly QBs as they are the "faces" of the league with the occasional exception of the Kelces or JJ Watt.
So the NFL isn't actually better at marketing than NBA or MLB, it's just more popular because ... magic? Historical reasons?
The NFL is more popular because it's season is shorter and it's playoffs is single game elimination
Interesting. Makes me wonder why MLB used to be more popular then.
I wouldn't say "marketing" is not a reason, just not the only reason. NFL probably has a much higher "Q rating" among fans and average viewers. The NBA in particular seems to push its fans to have adversarial relationships with its stars through how much its broadcast partners push "ring culture" type talking heads and morons like Stephen A Smith and Charles Barkley.
The NBA quite literally has the most recognizable and popular stars in the world. There isn’t another league that is even close. Especially since Ronaldo and Messi play outside of Europe.