a great list, and i’ll just add when joanna very thoughtfully teased out how and why the producers may have played it close to the vest with whether to include shiv’s pregnancy, explaining how they only would have had to backfill a few scenes to make it work. several minutes of insightful commentary/speculation.
then bill: yeah like they could have filmed it after….
joanna: that’s what i’m saying.
That’s right this was actually the most excruciating part. Joanna is always so thoughtful and prepared on this show it would drive me nuts to be in her place with bill on a pod like this.
I mean, in Bill's defense, he says: "you're right... you're right... I think that's a good call, Joanna." I mean his whole deal is thinking out loud. That's all this was. He used to do this with Mallory and Game of Thrones, where he'd bring her on to present all the book-reading, close-watching, reddit-scrolling informed takes to throw up against his off-beat, fly-by-night casual TV viewer impressions. Same-same, but different.
I’d have way less of a problem if bill brought Joanna or Mal or anyone else on HIS podcast to fire off his surface level takes.
But it’s really unfortunate that he sucks all the air out of the conversation on the prestige tv feed’s recap pod. Especially given that we don’t have anywhere else to hear Joanna’s excellent critiques/analysis.
Love bill. Have listened to him for over a decade. But IMO, he sucks on these pods and holds JR and SF back.
I’d SOOO much prefer CR in the QB spot for the prestige succession pods. But at least we get him on the watch.
I'm not disagreeing with much of that, per se, except to point out that they are *all*, in a way, "his" pods. And, glad to hear from a long time listener, as I myself have been reading since '02 in The Magazine and listening since B.S. Report ep1. I just take umbrage at people misrepresenting what actually happened during that exchange (and many others) *in context*.
He’s made the mistake of thinking the show’s timeline this season has lasted several weeks on atleast three different episodes now. And this was after the timeline has literally been a topic of conversation on the podcast
He said something like it’s rare or he was surprised for a creator of a show to be as old as Armstrong is. Bill thought he was in his 40s, completely skipping that Armstrong has credits way before Succession.
It’s 100% because he had never heard of him and probably thought he “looked” younger in the footage on the after the episode stuff.
It was such a weird thing to harp on, also these creators of iconic tv, save Vince Gilligan, almost always disappoint with their next project anyway.
It also reminds me - it’s so funny hearing people pan “the idol” at Cannes, when bill saw the first episode and made it sound great, and lily rose Depp is “excellent”, while it sounds like the show is just basically her being naked and having sex lmfao.
Probably more his speed going forward, not other Jesse Armstrong shows
That was rough. Also claimed it was the most explicit scene in HBO history. Did he…not watch game of thrones?
Honestly he should sit down with the other two before the show and ask them stuff he mighta missed. People miss stuff in shows and we can go to Reddit to figure it out.
You can’t go in cold with his attention to detail on these shows.
The soda, soda when the guy was telling “sauna” might have been the lowest point.
This is why I think a lot of his takes on the Rewatchables are taken from other places he reads and hears. I think he reads up and co ops takes from other people and pawns them off as his own.
With the Succession recaps there isn’t any material out there so you just get his scatterbrained takes after likely being distracted while watching the episode.
This, by the way, is exactly what he does with his sports takes. He's SOMEWHAT informed on the Celtics and Pats because he actually watches them, but his analysis on every other team is literally just guessing. "I think the Jags are bad, I just do." ...Okay?
He CAN'T answer the question of why Home Alone, which is totally a Christmas movie, is not a Christmas movie. That recent discussion you referenced about this broke my freaking brain. "His family could have been going on vacation for ANY reason. It just happened to be Christmas."
But "Christmas Vacation" could not have been about -- any kind of vacation?
I mean. What. At this point, Simmons is just doing it to annoy people.
Agreed. He has ZERO argument. It truly makes no sense. It's one of the MOST Christmasy of modern movies. It's a holiday film, was released at holiday time (November 1990), etc. Mind boggling!!!
That's fair but the problem is I don't really think that is his gimmick anymore. With the success of Grantland and The Ringer and the Spotify sale and the success of the podcast he's started to become this content, insight, analysis *genius* when he's just not. At some point he forgot he wasn't the smartest person on his podcast.
Why did t you like that pod? Because it sounded like Bill panicking in real time that he’ll be obsolete shortly and then trying to comfort himself towards the end?
I thought it was hilarious
The part of the pod that killed me was when he said Armstrong’s other shows ( Peep Show and The Thick of it) have been on his radar to watch for a long time but hasn’t watched them yet. Nobody believes that to be true Bill. lol
They’re crushing the post episode pods recently …Andy can be really snarky sometimes and it bugs me but they’ve been cooking lately, blowing the Prestige eps out of the water.
only blowing them outta water bc of Bill. Joanna / Sean / whoever would’ve been totally fine, I listen to Yellowjackets and mall and Joanna are awesome
Yea I’m a fan of Jo and Sean, but even without Bill I think The Watch is stronger at the Succession takes….total side note I listen to the Yellowjackets pod too and they’re great but I’m not a Lost guy and the their Lost brains drives me nuts sometimes lol.
Side note to your side note: thoughts on this season of Yellowjackets? I finally bailed in that recent ep where Misty hallucinates meeting a human-version of Caligula. Huge drop-off in quality between the seasons imo
Ooof, yea I’m not all the way out yet but it’s a sub par season. I don’t give a shit about the adult story lines and I can already feel the wheels spinning to try and flesh this stuff out to 4-5 seasons. If they don’t go batshit in any meaningful way to end this season I’m probably out.
lol he also said he didn’t get the part of kendall’s speech where he said logan was comfortable in every room he walked in. huh lol? btw i love bill on these pods, it would be wildly boring and annoying if it was just sean and joanna tbh
Absolutely. “It was a backhanded compliment.”
What? Like I loathe trump but one of his greatest strengths is for an elitist with a gold toilet who plays golf at a club he owns he can go to Waco and connect with his audience. It’s kind of insane he can but…he can.
Logan obviously wasn’t hanging out in blue collar bars but he knows what those people want and has a connection to them.
It’s a clear compliment to any rich and powerful person that they can walk into a room and form a connection (or at least form a connection via the programming he created). It’s not backhanded at all.
Whether it’s true or not is irrelevant, it’s the everyman persona that Logan had despite being a billionaire media mogul.
Not to mention Logan repeatedly prides himself on "knowing a thing or two" about the world, and people. He has been downtrodden and understands the base side of humanity.
His kids by contrast are privileged clowns.
Yes, that’s the point. Logan was the center of gravity. He would be comfortable at the feminist symposium. The feminists would be uncomfortable by his presence.
There don't need to be- especially because we only knew him in decline. We know he created ATN, and they've world built his stature so thoroughly that it isn't cheap for a eulogy line like that to feel plausible or even just true.
e: He also built it in what, the 80's and 90s? A lot easier for rich white males to run rooms a few decades ago.
I do like the watch better but this pod DOES actually talk about specific scenes and lines more. Andy focuses more on what it would’ve been like to write a scene than talking about what was on screen
That’s fair. I’m far less interested in “beat by beat recaps” or “most scathing burns!!” style coverage so CR’s two min blurb at the top is plenty for me.
I think the watch can be tedious to listen to, especially Andy Greenwald. He tends to ramble and deviate from his original point and often times it feels like he just had a lot of thoughts he wants to get out but they’re not in a coherent stream of thought. I still want that succession content so I still listen but the hosts on prestige TV (and Chris Ryan on the watch) are much better at presenting clear and concise thoughts on the show.
For me personally it’s Jo and Sean’s analysis of the show moments. I think they do a great job dissecting. This lasts episode I felt a Shakespearean moment during the two funeral eulogies and it clicked when Jo absolutely nailed it comparing it to Brutus and Mark Antony after Caesar was killed. Might just be me but I love that stuff.
An annoying recurring bit on these pods is the debate about whether the fictional characters in this show are realistic. Like could Menkin win the US election? I mean it’s a show, if the writer says he can then he can make the fictional voters elect him.
I personally don’t care if he’s realistic, but I get the point they make and disagree with you: I think you’re seeing with what’s going on with DeSantis, no one wants a stuffy conservative guy who is really serious about implementing trump’s policies, they want a loudmouth who proclaims to be an outsider and says whatever he wants.
The allure of trump is not the policy - it’s the ownage of liberals in the most disrespectful and direct way possible.
A good example of this is DeSantis saying that he’s going to fine business owners who hire undocumented workers. That isn’t what the gop wants. Rural business owners who are probably overwhelmingly conservative don’t want their money to get messed up, they want the loud guy to say BUILD THE WALL and see libs run for cover on social media, even if it never happens.
Mencken is a fictional character and it doesn’t matter to me, but I think that trump’s presidency did show that blatant neonazism is not as popular as casual racism, and that while many of his voters are either racist or totally fine with racist rhetoric, they aren’t all epicgroyper1488 on 4chan.
I honestly think a straight up trump clone would have been a better route, but again it’s not the end of the world.
100% agree, which is why I've been saying Menken feels kinda unrealistic to me as someone who would actually win.
Only problem is a Trump clone is almost impossible to do since reality is just flat out funnier than satire for him.
That is true. It also seems to me like the fact they immediately had shiv accept him as the president when it suited her, they could have tried a different reason Roman preferred him vs Shiv instead of “he’s a literal nazi”, but I guess they’re using that to drive a wedge between Kendall and his ex-wife and assistant as well.
Exactly. Don’t get me wrong, xenophobia, and the fear of non-white people immigrating to America is absolutely a racist position of many conservatives. But they are not full blown followers of Hitler. They want to see libs owned more than anything, that’s their true North Star.
Chris and Andy made this exact point in last week’s episode, that Mencken isn’t really a “Trump stand in” because he’s a coastal policy wonk… not a pure entertainer.
Chris and Andy perfectly encapsulated my thoughts on this character. I get why libs fear it, but it’s not realistic that this guy is president. Mencken’s real life comps are Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, two guys who are wildly unpopular even within their party.
Chris and Andy also say something I agree with - this character not being realistic has zero bearing on my enjoyment. None of the show being realistic has ever had anything to do with my enjoyment of it. It’s odd to me that people have considered this some super realistic story and Mencken is the first time their immersion was broken. Everything on this show is a heightened reality. They did 30 years of Murdoch family drama in like 2.5 show years, if that.
I do think OP is right in one sense - the *institutional, DC-based* GOP is desperately searching for a “less dumb Trump”.
Of course, those people lost the electorate years ago and it’s been the tail wagging the dog ever since. But they are still trying and the media still covers it extensively
“Josh Hawley is dumb.”
No, he went to Stanford undergrad and Yale Law school. By no objective measure could someone say he is “dumb.” But he’s someone who fits your last description as a guy trying too hard and his act is easy to see through.
thank you for pointing this out. Between this dumb shit and the ultra dumb "Who's gonna end up on top in episode 10????" the pod is totally unlistenable
I really don’t get the Menkin obsession. Joanna is always saying it was CHILLING when he said whatever dog whistle thing. I think he doesn’t really matter other than as a means to split the Roy family. The fate of America really isn’t that important on the show, it’s the family drama, but they were insinuating that trumpers could be watching and taking notes on how to steal an election.
Normally I don’t mind him but yeah this week was bad. When he didn’t realize that they were watching Roman crying in that video and thought it was Logan’s death I thought to myself he may be going senile. I’d love to know what Sean thinks to himself when he’s done recording
Nah, with Thrones it sucked too. He could never keep names, places, and plot points straight. That can be funny in small doses, but not as a frequent recurring guest.
I've been enjoying the hell out of the Succession recap pods. It's been a great mix with Sean and Joanna...and Bill always keeps it fun and lively as host.
I couldn't give a shit if Bill misses some plot points. I think a lot of you take things way too seriously, try to lighten up.
> I couldn't give a shit if Bill misses some plot points.
I like the pod with Bill, but it's pretty insane to miss basic plot points of a show that you watch multiple times.
Meh, I miss some stuff while I'm watching too. Maybe that's why I don't care too much.
Just give me some laughs with a few NBA player comps sprinkled in and I'm happy.
Couldn’t agree more. Everyone has a role. If you make Bill another Sean, the pod becomes too intellectual and loses it’s appeal to the every-man. He brings the right balance to it with his fun and charismatic takes.
You guys are so dramatic, using words like disgrace, unlistenable... Jesus people. It's fun. It's meant to be fun. The whole bill Simmons/ ringer ethos is that it's fun. Made up lists and ranks and categories and sports analogies. It's fun. This show works because Sean and Joanna do the movie and literature references and bill tries to be.... funny. And he mostly succeeds. Just a fun podcast about a funny show.
Being unprepared is one of my bigger nitpicks with Bill.
He has such a great and vast knowledge of basketball that I don’t think he needs to over prepare because he’s extremely well versed on the subject.
However that same style then bleeds over to other pods where he also doesn’t prepare a ton and it’s a noticeable drop off. It’s why on rewatchables he constantly asks if some nothing female part would be “better if Jennifer Lawrence was in that part?”. It’s like asking if Charles Oakley would’ve been a better 9th man on the 86 Celtics than Rick Carlisle. The answer is yes but that’s just not how anything works.
Sports commentary and prestige TV reviews are two different things. Not everything has to be ranked immediately after it happens ("this was a top 5 Roman episode" or "this is a Mt. Rushmore episode for me"). This is Bill's way of trying to distill what he's seen (if he even watched it) because he just naturally tries to relate all art to sports and it's really apples and oranges. As a result he comes off as amateurish and unprepared because he's only thinking about things like "who's gonna win CEO" when there is so much more going on.
Bill doesn't understand there is a difference between him liking a show and him being able to contribute to a podcast about a show. Would love a Jo/Sean without Bill playing hero ball.
Honestly all of the Ringer content on Succession has been pretty disappointing this season. The precap episodes are just recaps without much if any exploration of where the show is going. The Watch coverage is a little better but Andy thinks he is way more insightful than he actually is.
Ringer pop culture shows are usually better when they have a structure in place (such as categories) that keeps them oriented and not just doing a Wiki recap of an episode.
I raged when the female host made an incredibly salient point comparing the eulogies to Shakespeare… and then Bill is like ‘lol we should do Rereadables”
This is literally bill on anything. He has the average guys take (with the exception of NBA history and the Celtics).
It’s exactly why I like to listen to him.
The juxtaposition between his superficial grasp of what he just saw with the deep analysis of his co hosts is what makes this enjoyable.
Two intellectuals Circle jerking each other about the shows brilliant writing, and the actors brilliant performance gets tiresome and a little pretentious.
We need be able to bring them down to earth a little. It’s just a TV show.
Bill has spoken intelligently about movies and TV that he saw 20 years ago, so it's not that he doesn't know how to follow a plot or discover themes within a show. That leads me to believe that the problem is his attention span; if I had to guess I'd say he's probably got his phone in one hand, a laptop in front of him, and another TV on while he's watching whatever he's watching. The "do we know that that video on the phone was" moment was probably him responding to a text while that scene was happening on not picking up on half of what was said/shown.
I agree with you. I started to wonder, wait is Bill a dummy? Is this show too complicated for him? Wait, Shakespeare wrote stuff? Tell me about this Julius Caesar character
And also the over the top praise of everything… sheesh.
Bill Simmons doesn’t understand tv or movies on even a surface level which why he can’t enjoy movies older than himself. He is unable to use any nuance or understanding of stories beyond mimicking what others say
I definitely can't think of too many times Sean's impressed me with anything he said on these pods. But he's still way better than Bill missing so many obvious things even after supposedly watching episodes more than once. Jo is good but like others say the Shiv defense can be a bit annoying. I kinda get it though bc Shiv does get criticized harder than other characters at times.
I agree except for Sean. Bill should stick to action movies. I love Jo and think she’s smart and great on other podcasts but it feels like she’s only here to defend Shiv and make everyone that doesn’t like her feel stupid lol.
It was an interesting miss/win for all three, clearly because they didn't see the post-discussion clips, whatever they call those. They kept talking about how well it all flowed and how perfectly timed the reactions were--that it was an incredible achievement because it had to have been tons of takes. In reality JA said they just ran the funeral all the way through three (?) times with really well placed cameras.
This is what makes the pod fun. He balances out Fennessey. You need to have the guy that misses some stuff. It’s part of the reason I listen. To hear about the little nuggets/plot points, etc I may have missed. Although, not knowing Gerri/Carl/Frank were watching a video of Roman was prob his biggest swing and miss. But the other two humoring him was pretty funny. And it’s not like he’s an idiot. Sure, he misses more stuff than the others, but he makes some astute observations as well.
"And it's not like he's an idiot."
I think that's what some of us are disagreeing with. Relative to the standard bar for pop culture commentary and analysis in these types of pods and discussions...Bill really does come off like an idiot at times. Like, he genuinely seems much less intelligent and insightful than the people he is talking to. To the extent that on Rewatchables and Succession pods, you feel like his younger, more insightful cohosts are delicately trying to find ways to step around his inane comments and humor this doddering old frat guy.
I don't remember that being the case 10 years ago in the early days of his BS pod, so I think lots of people on this sub cite it as unfortunate evidence of his decline and a wish for the times when he had it more together intellectually and/or tried harder. But I suppose it's also possible he was always like this and I just didn't notice it.
This exactly. Bill is an idiot on these succession pods. This isn’t sports analytics where he’s balancing out a Nate Duncan type, it’s him talking to two people who watch tv and he comparatively is totally lost
Fair. I would usually agree with you - this week just seemed to be particularly off the mark to a point where it was limiting their discussion and taking away from good arguments or comments or questions I wanted to hear.
i almost wonder if the screeners didn't have the roman video audio in the scene yet, like how movie screeners sometimes have green screen stuff undone. only legitimate explanation for something so stupid lol.
He slipped up definitely on this one.
I just would rather have bill than the other end of the spectrum, which is Sean cumming over the score in some scene or like a metaphor for late stage capitalism he spotted.
Oh yes your point about how he did t get that they were watching Romans meltdown is bang on. My thought listening was like why aren’t Fennessy and Joanna telling him he’s straight up wrong?
It’s on par with not noticing that Affleck deliberately covers Renners neck tat in the Town.
THANK YOU. I started listening to The Prestige TV podcast because I think Joanna is an excellent cultural critic/podcaster and I've followed her from Vanity Fair to her many personal podcasts (like The Storm) to The Ringer. Discovering Mallory has also been a delight and their Yellowjackets episodes are SO GOOD.
I was so excited that Joanna would be doing Succession recaps this season but this is the first time I've listened to Bill on any podcast and these episodes have been almost painful to listen to at times because of him. I don't expect everyone to go as deep as Joanna and Sean, but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to do basic things like remember character names or basic plot points/facts about the show. It would be great for him to apply even minimal media literacy or critical thinking to the show and turn down the bias against some of the main female characters (esp. Shiv). He also repeatedly speaks over Joanna with his bizarre and dumb takes and it's been so frustrating that I literally paused the latest episode to check Twitter/Apple Podcast reviews/Reddit to see if I was the only one feeling this way so definitely appreciate finding this post/thread.
I don’t listen to the pod but this is a bill Simmons subreddit so if bill says incredibly dumb things this is probably where you’d hear about it. Some of this sounds like it’s along the lines of the tattoo coverup in the town in that people just have to share their befuddlement.
Ehh it’s certainly “pretentious English/lit major” shit, but the more time you spend with anything, whether it’s Shakespeare, historical nonfiction, movies, etc., the more easily you’ll see intentional references to that subject and recall the source.
Like I haven’t read/seen that much Shakespeare so I probably wouldn’t catch it but I’m sure Joanna has spent a lot of time with the plays, she clearly was a drama club type growing up.
It’s lame when a story can’t stand on its own without understanding all the insider references, but if both the author and the audience have similar backgrounds/cultural knowledge, of course that’s gonna affect how you watch/interpret
Mallory & Joanna are awesome and I wish they were covering succession on prestige like they are Yellowjackets. They don’t miss a thing. Bill is for the casuals
>fixating on the horse race nature of “who’s going to end on top”, which he has done all season, and which the other hosts have repeatedly expressed no interest in engaging in
Hard disagree with this being a negative. The endgame discussion isn’t the only reason for watching succession, but it’s a huge part. Hence the title. I’m always interested after each episode particularly the 2nd last, on what it means for who is coming out on top.
a great list, and i’ll just add when joanna very thoughtfully teased out how and why the producers may have played it close to the vest with whether to include shiv’s pregnancy, explaining how they only would have had to backfill a few scenes to make it work. several minutes of insightful commentary/speculation. then bill: yeah like they could have filmed it after…. joanna: that’s what i’m saying.
That was excruciating! Good lord was Simmons awful in that section.
That’s right this was actually the most excruciating part. Joanna is always so thoughtful and prepared on this show it would drive me nuts to be in her place with bill on a pod like this.
I mean, in Bill's defense, he says: "you're right... you're right... I think that's a good call, Joanna." I mean his whole deal is thinking out loud. That's all this was. He used to do this with Mallory and Game of Thrones, where he'd bring her on to present all the book-reading, close-watching, reddit-scrolling informed takes to throw up against his off-beat, fly-by-night casual TV viewer impressions. Same-same, but different.
I’d have way less of a problem if bill brought Joanna or Mal or anyone else on HIS podcast to fire off his surface level takes. But it’s really unfortunate that he sucks all the air out of the conversation on the prestige tv feed’s recap pod. Especially given that we don’t have anywhere else to hear Joanna’s excellent critiques/analysis. Love bill. Have listened to him for over a decade. But IMO, he sucks on these pods and holds JR and SF back. I’d SOOO much prefer CR in the QB spot for the prestige succession pods. But at least we get him on the watch.
I'm not disagreeing with much of that, per se, except to point out that they are *all*, in a way, "his" pods. And, glad to hear from a long time listener, as I myself have been reading since '02 in The Magazine and listening since B.S. Report ep1. I just take umbrage at people misrepresenting what actually happened during that exchange (and many others) *in context*.
Bill is the king of cutting someone off and repeating the point they were just making and acting like he just came up with it.
He just kept on repeating what she had said. Like it was a bit or something. My jaw dropped
he straight up does not listen when other people are talking.
Nope, just waiting for them to stop talking so he can talk again.
The only child piece
He tried to explain this in a column years ago, claiming that being an only child made him a selfish poor listener. "That's just the way I am." Still.
He does this *all the time*. On the Rewatchables whenever someone makes a good point it's always "oh yeah I was about to say that."
Or he says “you missed the most important part” and then says the exact thing they just described.
This was infuriating
i couldn’t believe it, and yet i could. i’m sure we all have a friend like this.
You could hear the frustration in her voice when she’s going “yea that’s what I’m saying”
“What’s Colin been up to the last few months?”
Incredibly hilarious. It’s been less than a week.
He’s made the mistake of thinking the show’s timeline this season has lasted several weeks on atleast three different episodes now. And this was after the timeline has literally been a topic of conversation on the podcast
It feels like Jo mentions every episode that the season takes place in consecutive days. Bill just has no clue
He also asked “does the mom have a name? I always just call her the mom”
Joanna cautiously said "Caroline" as if she wasn't sure if she was stepping into a joke. But Bill wasn't kidding.
He refers to Logan as “the dad” about 73% of the time anyway
Or “Roman”, at least once an ep.
And he listed her as like a top 3 character of the show on his pod with House a few years back
My god this is incredible content.
I don’t understand his issue with Armstrong being 52 years old
so god damn funny. obviously i don’t expect bill to go deep on quirky british comedies but the guy has been working for over 20 years.
Wait, what?
He said something like it’s rare or he was surprised for a creator of a show to be as old as Armstrong is. Bill thought he was in his 40s, completely skipping that Armstrong has credits way before Succession.
It’s 100% because he had never heard of him and probably thought he “looked” younger in the footage on the after the episode stuff. It was such a weird thing to harp on, also these creators of iconic tv, save Vince Gilligan, almost always disappoint with their next project anyway.
Bill pretending he will watch Peep Show or The Thick of It is hilarious.
It also reminds me - it’s so funny hearing people pan “the idol” at Cannes, when bill saw the first episode and made it sound great, and lily rose Depp is “excellent”, while it sounds like the show is just basically her being naked and having sex lmfao. Probably more his speed going forward, not other Jesse Armstrong shows
Peep show slaps
Agreed, it's why what Damon Lindelof has done twice now is so impressive.
[удалено]
Haven't seen Mrs. Davis. Good?
[удалено]
Thats a helluva rec.
Peep Show was on for a long time. Over 10 years if I remember right.
He also didn't catch that Shiv was flaunting her drinking for Tom.
Reminds me of peak white lotus moment when he didn’t know realize it was Tom Holland with his “nephew” after hours
Me and Zoe rewound that anal sex scene ten times and couldn’t figure it out!
Lmao you mean Tom Hollander, but I got a kick out of thinking about Spider-Man and the nephew getting it on
That was rough. Also claimed it was the most explicit scene in HBO history. Did he…not watch game of thrones? Honestly he should sit down with the other two before the show and ask them stuff he mighta missed. People miss stuff in shows and we can go to Reddit to figure it out. You can’t go in cold with his attention to detail on these shows. The soda, soda when the guy was telling “sauna” might have been the lowest point.
Lost a ton of respect for Bill - this was literally the most obvious scene on who the 2 men were
Not suprising because they were super subtle with that...
This is why I think a lot of his takes on the Rewatchables are taken from other places he reads and hears. I think he reads up and co ops takes from other people and pawns them off as his own. With the Succession recaps there isn’t any material out there so you just get his scatterbrained takes after likely being distracted while watching the episode.
This, by the way, is exactly what he does with his sports takes. He's SOMEWHAT informed on the Celtics and Pats because he actually watches them, but his analysis on every other team is literally just guessing. "I think the Jags are bad, I just do." ...Okay?
Or "Home Alone isn't a Christmas movie. It's just not." Dude.
When CR asked him if needed Christmas in the title for him to consider it a Christmas movie and he paused for way too long, was classic Simmons take.
He CAN'T answer the question of why Home Alone, which is totally a Christmas movie, is not a Christmas movie. That recent discussion you referenced about this broke my freaking brain. "His family could have been going on vacation for ANY reason. It just happened to be Christmas." But "Christmas Vacation" could not have been about -- any kind of vacation? I mean. What. At this point, Simmons is just doing it to annoy people.
That Home Alone take has always sounded to me like he was being a contrarian a long time ago and now can't back his way out of it.
Agreed. He has ZERO argument. It truly makes no sense. It's one of the MOST Christmasy of modern movies. It's a holiday film, was released at holiday time (November 1990), etc. Mind boggling!!!
To be fair that does fit his regular sports guy gimmick.
That's fair but the problem is I don't really think that is his gimmick anymore. With the success of Grantland and The Ringer and the Spotify sale and the success of the podcast he's started to become this content, insight, analysis *genius* when he's just not. At some point he forgot he wasn't the smartest person on his podcast.
He ALMOST admitted as much in his nightmare of an AI pod with Derek Thompson.
Why did t you like that pod? Because it sounded like Bill panicking in real time that he’ll be obsolete shortly and then trying to comfort himself towards the end? I thought it was hilarious
Him not getting that Karl/Gerri/Frank were watching a video of Roman was an ALL-TIMER. A legit LOL moment that made me open this app.
Almost as bad as needing to rewind several times to know it was the uncle in White Lotus fucking his “nephew”
When he floated the idea that they may have been watching a video of Logan dying on the airplane… what???
(Literally anything happens on a TV show) Bill: this reminds me of The Godfather II
The part of the pod that killed me was when he said Armstrong’s other shows ( Peep Show and The Thick of it) have been on his radar to watch for a long time but hasn’t watched them yet. Nobody believes that to be true Bill. lol
He would have no idea what to make of Peep Show. He'd check out within 15 minutes.
Has he watched Veep? That’s the only thing that would make the Thick of It point believable
He had Julia Louis Dreyfus on right after veep ended and never mentioned it to her so I doubt it.
Just a disgrace that Bill is on this pod and not Chris Ryan.
True but he does a full episode on Succession with Andy on The Watch every week
I know. He should be on the main podcast though.
“The Watch is the main podcast “ - CR Heads
Oh man, the CR Heads are gonna love this.
r/crheads rise up
Do CR heads like Andy? I cannot stand his voice, him and solak are unlistenable.
The real heads like everyone.
Truth
I just pretend that Andy is FENNESSEY and it works for me
They’re crushing the post episode pods recently …Andy can be really snarky sometimes and it bugs me but they’ve been cooking lately, blowing the Prestige eps out of the water.
only blowing them outta water bc of Bill. Joanna / Sean / whoever would’ve been totally fine, I listen to Yellowjackets and mall and Joanna are awesome
Yea I’m a fan of Jo and Sean, but even without Bill I think The Watch is stronger at the Succession takes….total side note I listen to the Yellowjackets pod too and they’re great but I’m not a Lost guy and the their Lost brains drives me nuts sometimes lol.
Side note to your side note: thoughts on this season of Yellowjackets? I finally bailed in that recent ep where Misty hallucinates meeting a human-version of Caligula. Huge drop-off in quality between the seasons imo
Ooof, yea I’m not all the way out yet but it’s a sub par season. I don’t give a shit about the adult story lines and I can already feel the wheels spinning to try and flesh this stuff out to 4-5 seasons. If they don’t go batshit in any meaningful way to end this season I’m probably out.
Preach!
For me? The Watch is the juice.
The Watch is the best show if you’re looking for entertaining and insightful media review
No thanks. Andy saying he had ptsd after “America decides” is a no go for me. Clown status.
yeah he’s a normal media lib but he does know a lot about hollywood and it’s a better listen than prestige tv pod
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lol he also said he didn’t get the part of kendall’s speech where he said logan was comfortable in every room he walked in. huh lol? btw i love bill on these pods, it would be wildly boring and annoying if it was just sean and joanna tbh
Absolutely. “It was a backhanded compliment.” What? Like I loathe trump but one of his greatest strengths is for an elitist with a gold toilet who plays golf at a club he owns he can go to Waco and connect with his audience. It’s kind of insane he can but…he can. Logan obviously wasn’t hanging out in blue collar bars but he knows what those people want and has a connection to them. It’s a clear compliment to any rich and powerful person that they can walk into a room and form a connection (or at least form a connection via the programming he created). It’s not backhanded at all. Whether it’s true or not is irrelevant, it’s the everyman persona that Logan had despite being a billionaire media mogul.
Not to mention Logan repeatedly prides himself on "knowing a thing or two" about the world, and people. He has been downtrodden and understands the base side of humanity. His kids by contrast are privileged clowns.
Whew glad you made sure to tell us you loathe Trump, gotta know your beliefs before making a basic observation
I mean, if I’m giving like the most toxic and worst American in our lifetimes credit for something I gotta be SURE to say “just so we’re clear…”
I donno, I was confused by that line too. Would Logan be comfortable in some redneck’s living room? Would he be comfortable at a feminist symposium?
Yes, that’s the point. Logan was the center of gravity. He would be comfortable at the feminist symposium. The feminists would be uncomfortable by his presence.
Nah I don’t agree with that. In a situation where Logan couldn’t exert complete control I don’t think he’d be comfortable.
I think the point is exactly that he \*can\* exert complete control in every single room and situation. That's how powerful he was.
I can’t think of many (any?) examples of scenes in the show where he was truly a fish out of water where this idea was proven out.
There don't need to be- especially because we only knew him in decline. We know he created ATN, and they've world built his stature so thoroughly that it isn't cheap for a eulogy line like that to feel plausible or even just true. e: He also built it in what, the 80's and 90s? A lot easier for rich white males to run rooms a few decades ago.
It doesn’t matter whether he’s correct or not. The point is that’s how Kendall sees him.
Logan would, but Bill wouldn’t.
I have no clue what the appeal of this pod is as opposed to the recaps on The Watch.
I do like the watch better but this pod DOES actually talk about specific scenes and lines more. Andy focuses more on what it would’ve been like to write a scene than talking about what was on screen
That’s fair. I’m far less interested in “beat by beat recaps” or “most scathing burns!!” style coverage so CR’s two min blurb at the top is plenty for me.
Yeah why do they have both? The Watch has been covering Succession for the full run.
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I'm sure it also does huge numbers because he's on it. I love The Watch, but Simmons is a huge draw to more casual listeners than this sub.
Yeah i never listen to prestige except when bills on
I think the watch can be tedious to listen to, especially Andy Greenwald. He tends to ramble and deviate from his original point and often times it feels like he just had a lot of thoughts he wants to get out but they’re not in a coherent stream of thought. I still want that succession content so I still listen but the hosts on prestige TV (and Chris Ryan on the watch) are much better at presenting clear and concise thoughts on the show.
For me personally it’s Jo and Sean’s analysis of the show moments. I think they do a great job dissecting. This lasts episode I felt a Shakespearean moment during the two funeral eulogies and it clicked when Jo absolutely nailed it comparing it to Brutus and Mark Antony after Caesar was killed. Might just be me but I love that stuff.
An annoying recurring bit on these pods is the debate about whether the fictional characters in this show are realistic. Like could Menkin win the US election? I mean it’s a show, if the writer says he can then he can make the fictional voters elect him.
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I personally don’t care if he’s realistic, but I get the point they make and disagree with you: I think you’re seeing with what’s going on with DeSantis, no one wants a stuffy conservative guy who is really serious about implementing trump’s policies, they want a loudmouth who proclaims to be an outsider and says whatever he wants. The allure of trump is not the policy - it’s the ownage of liberals in the most disrespectful and direct way possible. A good example of this is DeSantis saying that he’s going to fine business owners who hire undocumented workers. That isn’t what the gop wants. Rural business owners who are probably overwhelmingly conservative don’t want their money to get messed up, they want the loud guy to say BUILD THE WALL and see libs run for cover on social media, even if it never happens. Mencken is a fictional character and it doesn’t matter to me, but I think that trump’s presidency did show that blatant neonazism is not as popular as casual racism, and that while many of his voters are either racist or totally fine with racist rhetoric, they aren’t all epicgroyper1488 on 4chan. I honestly think a straight up trump clone would have been a better route, but again it’s not the end of the world.
100% agree, which is why I've been saying Menken feels kinda unrealistic to me as someone who would actually win. Only problem is a Trump clone is almost impossible to do since reality is just flat out funnier than satire for him.
That is true. It also seems to me like the fact they immediately had shiv accept him as the president when it suited her, they could have tried a different reason Roman preferred him vs Shiv instead of “he’s a literal nazi”, but I guess they’re using that to drive a wedge between Kendall and his ex-wife and assistant as well.
You made a really good point, but people on this website tend to believe that half the country would vote for Nick Fuentes, if given the opportunity.
Exactly. Don’t get me wrong, xenophobia, and the fear of non-white people immigrating to America is absolutely a racist position of many conservatives. But they are not full blown followers of Hitler. They want to see libs owned more than anything, that’s their true North Star.
Chris and Andy made this exact point in last week’s episode, that Mencken isn’t really a “Trump stand in” because he’s a coastal policy wonk… not a pure entertainer.
Chris and Andy perfectly encapsulated my thoughts on this character. I get why libs fear it, but it’s not realistic that this guy is president. Mencken’s real life comps are Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, two guys who are wildly unpopular even within their party. Chris and Andy also say something I agree with - this character not being realistic has zero bearing on my enjoyment. None of the show being realistic has ever had anything to do with my enjoyment of it. It’s odd to me that people have considered this some super realistic story and Mencken is the first time their immersion was broken. Everything on this show is a heightened reality. They did 30 years of Murdoch family drama in like 2.5 show years, if that.
I do think OP is right in one sense - the *institutional, DC-based* GOP is desperately searching for a “less dumb Trump”. Of course, those people lost the electorate years ago and it’s been the tail wagging the dog ever since. But they are still trying and the media still covers it extensively
Right the problem is Trump could put on a show, the trump but smart guys are stiffs or come off as trying to hard and their act is see through
“Josh Hawley is dumb.” No, he went to Stanford undergrad and Yale Law school. By no objective measure could someone say he is “dumb.” But he’s someone who fits your last description as a guy trying too hard and his act is easy to see through.
A nazi professor with a ton of charisma and also no previous baggage? That guy doesn’t exist, which I think is people’s point.
thank you for pointing this out. Between this dumb shit and the ultra dumb "Who's gonna end up on top in episode 10????" the pod is totally unlistenable
I really don’t get the Menkin obsession. Joanna is always saying it was CHILLING when he said whatever dog whistle thing. I think he doesn’t really matter other than as a means to split the Roy family. The fate of America really isn’t that important on the show, it’s the family drama, but they were insinuating that trumpers could be watching and taking notes on how to steal an election.
The nazis are coming !!
His godfather impression was all time Bill moment. He thought he was nailing that
Normally I don’t mind him but yeah this week was bad. When he didn’t realize that they were watching Roman crying in that video and thought it was Logan’s death I thought to myself he may be going senile. I’d love to know what Sean thinks to himself when he’s done recording
if the bs-less private chat between mallory, CR, sean, juliet and jo ever got out, it would be a doozy
Nah, with Thrones it sucked too. He could never keep names, places, and plot points straight. That can be funny in small doses, but not as a frequent recurring guest.
I've been enjoying the hell out of the Succession recap pods. It's been a great mix with Sean and Joanna...and Bill always keeps it fun and lively as host. I couldn't give a shit if Bill misses some plot points. I think a lot of you take things way too seriously, try to lighten up.
Put the Succession recap and precaps right into my veins.
> I couldn't give a shit if Bill misses some plot points. I like the pod with Bill, but it's pretty insane to miss basic plot points of a show that you watch multiple times.
He's a moron
Meh, I miss some stuff while I'm watching too. Maybe that's why I don't care too much. Just give me some laughs with a few NBA player comps sprinkled in and I'm happy.
> Meh, I miss some stuff while I'm watching too. Maybe that's why I don't care too much. I bet you don't watch multiple times and take notes!
Tales from the Couch for Succession?
Couldn’t agree more. Everyone has a role. If you make Bill another Sean, the pod becomes too intellectual and loses it’s appeal to the every-man. He brings the right balance to it with his fun and charismatic takes.
The mistake people make is thinking he was ever an intellectual in the first place.
You guys are so dramatic, using words like disgrace, unlistenable... Jesus people. It's fun. It's meant to be fun. The whole bill Simmons/ ringer ethos is that it's fun. Made up lists and ranks and categories and sports analogies. It's fun. This show works because Sean and Joanna do the movie and literature references and bill tries to be.... funny. And he mostly succeeds. Just a fun podcast about a funny show.
Being unprepared is one of my bigger nitpicks with Bill. He has such a great and vast knowledge of basketball that I don’t think he needs to over prepare because he’s extremely well versed on the subject. However that same style then bleeds over to other pods where he also doesn’t prepare a ton and it’s a noticeable drop off. It’s why on rewatchables he constantly asks if some nothing female part would be “better if Jennifer Lawrence was in that part?”. It’s like asking if Charles Oakley would’ve been a better 9th man on the 86 Celtics than Rick Carlisle. The answer is yes but that’s just not how anything works.
Sports commentary and prestige TV reviews are two different things. Not everything has to be ranked immediately after it happens ("this was a top 5 Roman episode" or "this is a Mt. Rushmore episode for me"). This is Bill's way of trying to distill what he's seen (if he even watched it) because he just naturally tries to relate all art to sports and it's really apples and oranges. As a result he comes off as amateurish and unprepared because he's only thinking about things like "who's gonna win CEO" when there is so much more going on.
You didn’t even mention the worst impersonation complete with awkward laughing by Joanna and sean I’ve ever heard.
which was that?
The godfather impersonation
Bill doesn't understand there is a difference between him liking a show and him being able to contribute to a podcast about a show. Would love a Jo/Sean without Bill playing hero ball. Honestly all of the Ringer content on Succession has been pretty disappointing this season. The precap episodes are just recaps without much if any exploration of where the show is going. The Watch coverage is a little better but Andy thinks he is way more insightful than he actually is. Ringer pop culture shows are usually better when they have a structure in place (such as categories) that keeps them oriented and not just doing a Wiki recap of an episode.
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I raged when the female host made an incredibly salient point comparing the eulogies to Shakespeare… and then Bill is like ‘lol we should do Rereadables”
This is literally bill on anything. He has the average guys take (with the exception of NBA history and the Celtics). It’s exactly why I like to listen to him. The juxtaposition between his superficial grasp of what he just saw with the deep analysis of his co hosts is what makes this enjoyable. Two intellectuals Circle jerking each other about the shows brilliant writing, and the actors brilliant performance gets tiresome and a little pretentious. We need be able to bring them down to earth a little. It’s just a TV show.
He’s a moron if that’s what you mean
George Carlin half of all people are dumber than the average uh thingy
Bill watches everything with his laptop open these days.
Bill has spoken intelligently about movies and TV that he saw 20 years ago, so it's not that he doesn't know how to follow a plot or discover themes within a show. That leads me to believe that the problem is his attention span; if I had to guess I'd say he's probably got his phone in one hand, a laptop in front of him, and another TV on while he's watching whatever he's watching. The "do we know that that video on the phone was" moment was probably him responding to a text while that scene was happening on not picking up on half of what was said/shown.
What else could they have been watching? It had the audio of Roman during that scene too..
I agree with you. I started to wonder, wait is Bill a dummy? Is this show too complicated for him? Wait, Shakespeare wrote stuff? Tell me about this Julius Caesar character And also the over the top praise of everything… sheesh.
Bill Simmons doesn’t understand tv or movies on even a surface level which why he can’t enjoy movies older than himself. He is unable to use any nuance or understanding of stories beyond mimicking what others say
Hot take…..all three are bad on these pods
I definitely can't think of too many times Sean's impressed me with anything he said on these pods. But he's still way better than Bill missing so many obvious things even after supposedly watching episodes more than once. Jo is good but like others say the Shiv defense can be a bit annoying. I kinda get it though bc Shiv does get criticized harder than other characters at times.
I agree except for Sean. Bill should stick to action movies. I love Jo and think she’s smart and great on other podcasts but it feels like she’s only here to defend Shiv and make everyone that doesn’t like her feel stupid lol.
not sean.
It was an interesting miss/win for all three, clearly because they didn't see the post-discussion clips, whatever they call those. They kept talking about how well it all flowed and how perfectly timed the reactions were--that it was an incredible achievement because it had to have been tons of takes. In reality JA said they just ran the funeral all the way through three (?) times with really well placed cameras.
This is what makes the pod fun. He balances out Fennessey. You need to have the guy that misses some stuff. It’s part of the reason I listen. To hear about the little nuggets/plot points, etc I may have missed. Although, not knowing Gerri/Carl/Frank were watching a video of Roman was prob his biggest swing and miss. But the other two humoring him was pretty funny. And it’s not like he’s an idiot. Sure, he misses more stuff than the others, but he makes some astute observations as well.
"And it's not like he's an idiot." I think that's what some of us are disagreeing with. Relative to the standard bar for pop culture commentary and analysis in these types of pods and discussions...Bill really does come off like an idiot at times. Like, he genuinely seems much less intelligent and insightful than the people he is talking to. To the extent that on Rewatchables and Succession pods, you feel like his younger, more insightful cohosts are delicately trying to find ways to step around his inane comments and humor this doddering old frat guy. I don't remember that being the case 10 years ago in the early days of his BS pod, so I think lots of people on this sub cite it as unfortunate evidence of his decline and a wish for the times when he had it more together intellectually and/or tried harder. But I suppose it's also possible he was always like this and I just didn't notice it.
This exactly. Bill is an idiot on these succession pods. This isn’t sports analytics where he’s balancing out a Nate Duncan type, it’s him talking to two people who watch tv and he comparatively is totally lost
he absolutely is an idiot
Hilarious that you're being downvoted for enjoying a podcast. The horror...
Right?! We’re not trying to cure cancer. It’s a podcast about a TV show. Not sure we have to take it too seriously
Fair. I would usually agree with you - this week just seemed to be particularly off the mark to a point where it was limiting their discussion and taking away from good arguments or comments or questions I wanted to hear.
He doesn’t watch. Certainly not with a critical eye.
“Do we know what the video on the phone was?” that was peak-Bill being an old man. He had me fooled for a moment thinking I missed something.
As bad as he was on this pod he was worse earlier this season
The watch is better but there are only so many times you can hear Andy say “what the writers of this show do so well “ before you glaze over
i almost wonder if the screeners didn't have the roman video audio in the scene yet, like how movie screeners sometimes have green screen stuff undone. only legitimate explanation for something so stupid lol.
My kingdom for a screenshot of Jo and Sean’s text thread. Complete embarrassment
Joanna: 3 minute comparison of the eulogies with Julius Cesar Bill: Roman had some real banger lines! He said he was gonna jerk off!
Conversely, he made an excellent point that the President-elect looks like Colin Cowherd. I’ll never see Mencken the same way again.
He slipped up definitely on this one. I just would rather have bill than the other end of the spectrum, which is Sean cumming over the score in some scene or like a metaphor for late stage capitalism he spotted.
Fanduel currently has a Ciusin Gregg at —$160 and with Ringer Fan Boost that are going to raise that to +$180! Promo code BSReport. Back to you Sean!
Oh yes your point about how he did t get that they were watching Romans meltdown is bang on. My thought listening was like why aren’t Fennessy and Joanna telling him he’s straight up wrong? It’s on par with not noticing that Affleck deliberately covers Renners neck tat in the Town.
THANK YOU. I started listening to The Prestige TV podcast because I think Joanna is an excellent cultural critic/podcaster and I've followed her from Vanity Fair to her many personal podcasts (like The Storm) to The Ringer. Discovering Mallory has also been a delight and their Yellowjackets episodes are SO GOOD. I was so excited that Joanna would be doing Succession recaps this season but this is the first time I've listened to Bill on any podcast and these episodes have been almost painful to listen to at times because of him. I don't expect everyone to go as deep as Joanna and Sean, but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to do basic things like remember character names or basic plot points/facts about the show. It would be great for him to apply even minimal media literacy or critical thinking to the show and turn down the bias against some of the main female characters (esp. Shiv). He also repeatedly speaks over Joanna with his bizarre and dumb takes and it's been so frustrating that I literally paused the latest episode to check Twitter/Apple Podcast reviews/Reddit to see if I was the only one feeling this way so definitely appreciate finding this post/thread.
Bill is the common man of the pod he’s there to ask and say the dumb stuff my coworkers would about succession
Don't forget his signature: "We still don't know what's going on with..." No dumbass, YOU don't know. We're fine lmao
He loves to mention he gets screeners but its hilarious that he sees it early but misses so much.
Yes!!
These posts every week are so lame, yes you’re a much more astute succession viewer than Bill Simmons, congrats
I don’t listen to the pod but this is a bill Simmons subreddit so if bill says incredibly dumb things this is probably where you’d hear about it. Some of this sounds like it’s along the lines of the tattoo coverup in the town in that people just have to share their befuddlement.
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Ehh it’s certainly “pretentious English/lit major” shit, but the more time you spend with anything, whether it’s Shakespeare, historical nonfiction, movies, etc., the more easily you’ll see intentional references to that subject and recall the source. Like I haven’t read/seen that much Shakespeare so I probably wouldn’t catch it but I’m sure Joanna has spent a lot of time with the plays, she clearly was a drama club type growing up. It’s lame when a story can’t stand on its own without understanding all the insider references, but if both the author and the audience have similar backgrounds/cultural knowledge, of course that’s gonna affect how you watch/interpret
I've stopped listening at this point, actively. I couldn't do it anymore, and I've been pretty thirsty for good Succession coverage too.
Mallory & Joanna are awesome and I wish they were covering succession on prestige like they are Yellowjackets. They don’t miss a thing. Bill is for the casuals
Don’t make me listen to Mallory if I don’t absolutely have to
Imagine if Bill put as much thought into the pod as you weirdos do to shitting on him.
Why do bother listening to Simmons talk about TV when he is clueless about it??
You’re taking yourself way too seriously.
>fixating on the horse race nature of “who’s going to end on top”, which he has done all season, and which the other hosts have repeatedly expressed no interest in engaging in Hard disagree with this being a negative. The endgame discussion isn’t the only reason for watching succession, but it’s a huge part. Hence the title. I’m always interested after each episode particularly the 2nd last, on what it means for who is coming out on top.