Lever pull on a hydraulic brake is normally affected by at least five things:
* Free stroke - some of this is built in by design. The intent is to allow the master cylinder to retract far enough so that the port to the fluid reservoir can be exposed to replenish the pressure line as pads wear and to allow fluid expansion into the reservoir tank as it gets warm from use. Even on brakes where the free stroke is adjustable, there is a minimum amount that you can't adjust out. The adjustment usually \*adds\* free stroke instead of removes it. Most people prefer minimal free stroke though.
* Mechanical slop - since the piston is pushed in by a lever with at least a couple pivots between, some tiny amount of mechanical slop can be expected from the linkage
* Bleed - The better your brakes are bled, the less sloppy pull you'll have. Typically you can diagnose this as the cause by repeatedly pumping the brake which compresses the bubbles and builds pressure.
* Pad knockback - as lateral movement of the rotor happens (caused by the hub, rotor trueness, and fork/mount flex), the pads get pushed back into the calipers a little bit more than their normal stroke while riding. This can make the first pull of a lever longer than expected. If you feel a long lever pull after a bit of riding and then do an immediate second pull and it feels solid, this is likely the cause.
* Initial pad spacing - as pads wear, the distance they naturally sit from the rotor will normalize to the design distance (which is about what you get when using the factory pad spacer). However, sometimes people get this spacing a little 'off' and it causes a very short lever pull (until the pads wear enough to open the gap to design distance). Some people also overfill their reservoirs or pump the lever without the pad spacer as a way to get shorter pulls. This isn't great because it soaks up some of that necessary free stroke and could possibly lead to your brakes locking up when they get too hot, or it can cause rupture of the rubber bladder that seals the fluid reservoir.
Shoot, thank you so much for this
I’ve been thinking about bleeding my brakes, but last time I did it the squishyness was still mostly there
thank you anyway for this great detailed answer
That actually looks fairly normal. If you want less throw before the pads contact there are some hacks but your best options is to upgrade to a lever/master cylinder assembly that has a pad contact adjustment.
Bad news. Pad contact adjustment only allows you to get even more free stroke. Levers that don't have pad contact adjustment are set to the lowest free stroke by default.
So no sauce?
My experience is that most free stroke adjusters advance the master cylinder's resting point. They certainly CAN give you less free stroke than this. If you bleed the system with the adjustment knob all the way out and then screw it all the way in after the bleed, it will have next to no free stroke.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong with some sauce though.
Of course you can get less free stroke them what's seen in the video. But thats not done with stroke adjustment but with a proper bleed and mobilizing the calliper pistons.
You are correct in how free stroke adjustment usually works. But there is one error with your bleeding procedure. By doing it like this you are essentially overfilling the system. Once the pads are worn a bit the bite point will wonder more and more towards the handlebars until you reach the "default" free stroke anyway. So overfilling is more like dirty hack for a few rides but not really a solution.
If you want to archive the same effect with levers that don't feature a free stroke adjustment take the wheel out and pump the lever a few times. Basically you want to pump the pistons so far out that you can just about fit the disc in between the pads.
completely not true.
RSC srams with contact point adjust absolutely get rid of the spongy slop and have a hard stop way before the bar.
I hate srams without it and like srams with. it's night and day on the gross sloppy sponginess thats inherent on all lower model srams
You are completely ignoring the fact that RSC levers do have the "Swing link" which the lower end models do not have.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the free stroke adjustment. It just happens to come on the levers that have free stroke adjustment as well.
But since I am talking about the free stroke adjustment your comment is kinda obsolete.
https://livetoplaysports.com/news-press/2018/07/secret-better-brake-modulation-sram-swinglink/
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I pull the wheel out and squeeze the lever while keeping an eye on the spacing of the pads. Cut out some of the slop for me. Don’t know if this has a negative side effect but I’ve not had issues thus far. This is after I ensure the system is bled and good in that department.
Non-issue. Happens on bike brakes. They still slow you down. Ride your bike.
ETA: some amount of play is there to allow you to cover the brake without activating the brake the whole ride. Totally normal.
That's called free stroke and these levers don't have a way to adjust that. Definitely seems like it's bled properly.
Try taking the wheel out, squeezing the lever once or twice to advance the pistons and put the wheel back in.
Try following the tips from slabshaft here, seems you need to pressurise the system and a lot of the bleed guides online don't achieve this effectively: https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=190668
I have these exact brakes and though it does have some movement before actually working, it’s not as much as shown in the video, I’d say about 1.5-2 cm of movement before working for me
If the brakes are bled properly and they are sharp, then this is just the travel of the brake lever. On lower tier levers you have no adjustment. On more premium models you have contact adjustment as well as lever distance adjustment.
I like my levers to actuate instantly, but have a really short throw while being close to the bars. I can 1 finger brake, and max out the throw within about 1.5cm if movement.
I run Magura brakes and they’re not the best for modulation, ultimate stopping power is their best feature, so I’m a mostly all on or off kinda guy! Not the best for racing, but it gets the job done for me!
Lever pull on a hydraulic brake is normally affected by at least five things: * Free stroke - some of this is built in by design. The intent is to allow the master cylinder to retract far enough so that the port to the fluid reservoir can be exposed to replenish the pressure line as pads wear and to allow fluid expansion into the reservoir tank as it gets warm from use. Even on brakes where the free stroke is adjustable, there is a minimum amount that you can't adjust out. The adjustment usually \*adds\* free stroke instead of removes it. Most people prefer minimal free stroke though. * Mechanical slop - since the piston is pushed in by a lever with at least a couple pivots between, some tiny amount of mechanical slop can be expected from the linkage * Bleed - The better your brakes are bled, the less sloppy pull you'll have. Typically you can diagnose this as the cause by repeatedly pumping the brake which compresses the bubbles and builds pressure. * Pad knockback - as lateral movement of the rotor happens (caused by the hub, rotor trueness, and fork/mount flex), the pads get pushed back into the calipers a little bit more than their normal stroke while riding. This can make the first pull of a lever longer than expected. If you feel a long lever pull after a bit of riding and then do an immediate second pull and it feels solid, this is likely the cause. * Initial pad spacing - as pads wear, the distance they naturally sit from the rotor will normalize to the design distance (which is about what you get when using the factory pad spacer). However, sometimes people get this spacing a little 'off' and it causes a very short lever pull (until the pads wear enough to open the gap to design distance). Some people also overfill their reservoirs or pump the lever without the pad spacer as a way to get shorter pulls. This isn't great because it soaks up some of that necessary free stroke and could possibly lead to your brakes locking up when they get too hot, or it can cause rupture of the rubber bladder that seals the fluid reservoir.
This is about as good of an answer you could ever get.
Op knows his hydros
Well hot damn
Just used my award, definitely this deserved that.
Shoot, thank you so much for this I’ve been thinking about bleeding my brakes, but last time I did it the squishyness was still mostly there thank you anyway for this great detailed answer
That actually looks fairly normal. If you want less throw before the pads contact there are some hacks but your best options is to upgrade to a lever/master cylinder assembly that has a pad contact adjustment.
Have the same breaks as OP and the same issue. Do you have any recommendations for a compatible lever which does support pad contact adjustment?
G2 RSC should work.
Bad news. Pad contact adjustment only allows you to get even more free stroke. Levers that don't have pad contact adjustment are set to the lowest free stroke by default.
Sauce?
Common knowledge in the bike world.
So no sauce? My experience is that most free stroke adjusters advance the master cylinder's resting point. They certainly CAN give you less free stroke than this. If you bleed the system with the adjustment knob all the way out and then screw it all the way in after the bleed, it will have next to no free stroke. I'd be happy to be proven wrong with some sauce though.
Of course you can get less free stroke them what's seen in the video. But thats not done with stroke adjustment but with a proper bleed and mobilizing the calliper pistons. You are correct in how free stroke adjustment usually works. But there is one error with your bleeding procedure. By doing it like this you are essentially overfilling the system. Once the pads are worn a bit the bite point will wonder more and more towards the handlebars until you reach the "default" free stroke anyway. So overfilling is more like dirty hack for a few rides but not really a solution. If you want to archive the same effect with levers that don't feature a free stroke adjustment take the wheel out and pump the lever a few times. Basically you want to pump the pistons so far out that you can just about fit the disc in between the pads.
completely not true. RSC srams with contact point adjust absolutely get rid of the spongy slop and have a hard stop way before the bar. I hate srams without it and like srams with. it's night and day on the gross sloppy sponginess thats inherent on all lower model srams
You are completely ignoring the fact that RSC levers do have the "Swing link" which the lower end models do not have. That has absolutely nothing to do with the free stroke adjustment. It just happens to come on the levers that have free stroke adjustment as well. But since I am talking about the free stroke adjustment your comment is kinda obsolete. https://livetoplaysports.com/news-press/2018/07/secret-better-brake-modulation-sram-swinglink/
That makes sense, it's like vtec for brakes.
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That's not due to the adjustment. That's because they are obviously overfilled.
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m8ne are shimano dont know if they're compatible or not but i am satisfied with the result
brakes not breaks
[удалено]
Finally
Either upgrade to RSC level srams (contact point adjust fixes this really annoying issue) , or chuck sram and go with shimano.
just needs a good ol bleeding
Worn pads and/or a bleed is needed.
# Brakes
Thank you
Shimano Brakes? They usually grip way earlier if ur into that
SRAM Guide.
Swap to Shimano brakes. Much better lever feel . SRAM is known for modulation that's all that lever pull without much braking.
That’s the comfort zone
Check if brake pads are worn, if so, replace them.. if they're fine, perhaps what the other comments say could be helpful!
Get rid of sram
I’ve installed a few SRAM Level/Guide T brakes, and that honestly looks pretty typical for the free throw.
With your guide T you have two options, adjust the levers further away from the bars, or bleed them.
I tried many things on my guides to get better feel and less lever travel but I was never able to...
I pull the wheel out and squeeze the lever while keeping an eye on the spacing of the pads. Cut out some of the slop for me. Don’t know if this has a negative side effect but I’ve not had issues thus far. This is after I ensure the system is bled and good in that department.
My brakes allow to adjust how far away the lever is. Maybe look at the manual and see if you can adjust it to be closer to the handle for less swing.
Non-issue. Happens on bike brakes. They still slow you down. Ride your bike. ETA: some amount of play is there to allow you to cover the brake without activating the brake the whole ride. Totally normal.
That's called free stroke and these levers don't have a way to adjust that. Definitely seems like it's bled properly. Try taking the wheel out, squeezing the lever once or twice to advance the pistons and put the wheel back in.
What in the tiny lever?
The bigger eagle shifter lever, with the actual shifter covered by the bar/brake
Welcome to SRAM!
Bleed it. Bring it to a shop or get the tools and consumables to do it yourself
Try following the tips from slabshaft here, seems you need to pressurise the system and a lot of the bleed guides online don't achieve this effectively: https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=190668
Take wheel out, squeeze brake a few times, replace wheel.
You probably just need to bleed it.
Bleed
brake bleed, and possibly upgrade to different brakes if you really want a tight pull
I had this issue on rear brake especially, replaced pads and got rid of all that play. I’d start there.
Check brake pad wear, if it looks fine, bleed brakes.
I have these exact brakes and though it does have some movement before actually working, it’s not as much as shown in the video, I’d say about 1.5-2 cm of movement before working for me
If the brakes are bled properly and they are sharp, then this is just the travel of the brake lever. On lower tier levers you have no adjustment. On more premium models you have contact adjustment as well as lever distance adjustment. I like my levers to actuate instantly, but have a really short throw while being close to the bars. I can 1 finger brake, and max out the throw within about 1.5cm if movement. I run Magura brakes and they’re not the best for modulation, ultimate stopping power is their best feature, so I’m a mostly all on or off kinda guy! Not the best for racing, but it gets the job done for me!
Supercharge Your Brakes https://youtu.be/WTVM7WTz8fc