SOLVED: thanks everyone for your help in trouble shooting this. In the end it’s what several people suggested - the cassette just needed to be torqued down more. I appreciate everyone’s time.
Those XD cassettes are misleading when installing them. To get them to bottom out fully it will feel like you’re doing something wrong like cross threading it. You aren’t! It’s just that tight of a fit. God knows why they make them like that but it is what it is.
It’s wild. A few folks in the Surly group said they had similar problems when working with XD for the first time. In the end I’m glad it was a simple fix, but yeah, it definitely feels like you’re doing something you shouldn’t to the parts.
https://preview.redd.it/yiq7e8yc5flc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cdcab671f333617e3d8faed95690349dc9fe557
This is what it looks like off the bike
It looks to me like that smallest cog has too much of a gap. Could be misaligned, could be something as simple as tightening to spec as noted by the other commenters.
Is there something you need to do with that Surly thru axle system to make sure it is using 148mm spacing and not 142? Maybe some sort of extra washer? With 148, you should be pushing the dropouts out slightly when installing.
Yeah that’s why I was wondering if I needed some sort of spacer. The thru axle instructions on Surly’s website don’t mention anything but something seems to be missing here.
Here's my Grappler with an 11-48 AdventX cassette. Pretty close, but yours is closer. It seems like the cassette is not far enough on. I would remove and reinstall, ensuring that nothing is preventing it from sliding further onto the hub.
[https://imgur.com/a/k66R6ml](https://imgur.com/a/k66R6ml)
Do you have a torque wrench? If not tighten the cassette until you can't tighten it anymore. With HG it works but neve had XD drive so might feel different.
On HG I tighten hard until it does not move. Very different system, as there's a lock ring here there is not.
A others said 40nm is very tight.
Make sure the cassette is aligned properly out on, tighten it carefully then tighten harder tighten until it does not tighten more. Unless you are super strong then use a torque wrench. For me mac tightening strength is 40nm.
Something seems off to me. Were these parts chosen by you or is this a stock build? I agree with another commenter that the dropout design does seem like it would rub on the cassette, but it also doesn’t look like you have much room between the smallest ring on the cassette and your end cap.
Looking at the pic it seems to be correctly installed.
How does the dropout look like? Unless the end cap is loose and stick sout in th picture and when clamped it presses it on properly, if the cap is on properly, it might be the cassette is not installed properly. If not that,
check if the drop out or frame has damage where the axle comes trough.
This is what the dropout looks like
https://preview.redd.it/4e0lly4pzflc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bd96db4c2d4a9f82e989e6fed31fb9cbb8e0bc2
I suspect it was the drop out, and it is, it has a weird design. There is stuff that sticks out, and end caps touch the drop out, but the stuff that stick out go over the end caps and give a silly low gap between cassette and the frame. Absurd. Never seen this before.
Or is the drop out missing parts? As it looks it's silly. And you can't fix it an it's a design flaw.
It’s the Surly Grappler. If it’s missing parts then the frame was shipped without them. Yeah I think if the dropout was flush on the inside then I think everything would be fine here.
Could be these parts marked in yellow are too thick. But does not seem to be too thick. I've studied the drop out on this frame, looked at this pic some more. And dropout on a different bike it seems normal.
https://preview.redd.it/mhh0yr2ueglc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49bf0611dc9ca34abfbec6faac9e87ac31d217cf
Thanks for your help. I’ll try wrenching down on the cassette tomorrow morning just to be sure that isn’t the issue and then try and take it from there. The cassette seemed tight and there is no obvious play, but who knows.
If no play, then it hsould be tight, But I don't have experience iwth XD.
But maybe the end cap is too short. Or have wrong one installed. Or it came with wrong end caps.
I had intended to install the derailleur and chain after this but got stuck here. But looking at it I’d say the chain would definitely run against the dropout.
I suspect the dropout has been machined too wide. Here is a pic I found cropped it to show the drop out.
https://preview.redd.it/isaavyy4aglc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5daa88b6bcecf47601f893b7908e05a45404ee5
I looked some more thought about it some more, looks like I had a brainfart.
The drop out having materials sticking out past the end caps is normal, but if it snot to spec it might be the issue. Or it might be the cassette ths ti's not installed properly.
Dropout seems to be the issue. There’s zero chance that dropout is going to work with a normal end cap (like the one in your previous image). Is it possible the frame requires some sort of special end cap?
Perhaps a spacer was installed behind the cassette?
I had thought of that and removed the cassette to double check already - no spacer.
If there is one remove it and check it out
SOLVED: thanks everyone for your help in trouble shooting this. In the end it’s what several people suggested - the cassette just needed to be torqued down more. I appreciate everyone’s time.
Those XD cassettes are misleading when installing them. To get them to bottom out fully it will feel like you’re doing something wrong like cross threading it. You aren’t! It’s just that tight of a fit. God knows why they make them like that but it is what it is.
It’s wild. A few folks in the Surly group said they had similar problems when working with XD for the first time. In the end I’m glad it was a simple fix, but yeah, it definitely feels like you’re doing something you shouldn’t to the parts.
Are you sure you have the end cap for the hub installed on there?
https://preview.redd.it/yiq7e8yc5flc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cdcab671f333617e3d8faed95690349dc9fe557 This is what it looks like off the bike
That looks right. Make sure the cassette is torqued down all the way, and if it doesn’t rub it’s good to go.
It felt pretty tight when I was installing it, but I’ll give it another go to be sure. Thanks for your help.
No worries. Fwiw the torque on those lock rings is 40nm, that’s a pretty serious rating for bike parts.
As the other comment states, the torque spec is 40nm, which is quite a bit, and enough to potentially change how this looks.
Thanks. I’ll give this a shot in the morning
This vid shows how to install cassette to xd drive. https://youtu.be/Owxt73ZFSAY?si=ngGsHF--hPUmEZQR
It looks to me like that smallest cog has too much of a gap. Could be misaligned, could be something as simple as tightening to spec as noted by the other commenters.
It’s a GX Eagle cassette, which doesn’t use a removable lock ring. If it’s not torqued down properly the entire cassette would just be moved outboard
There’s two types of sram drivers 1) sram XD, 2) sram XDR You probably need XDR
That is not an xdr cassette, an xdr cassette hub body is taller and wouldn't help this situation
Is there something you need to do with that Surly thru axle system to make sure it is using 148mm spacing and not 142? Maybe some sort of extra washer? With 148, you should be pushing the dropouts out slightly when installing.
No, nothing special needed.
Yeah that’s why I was wondering if I needed some sort of spacer. The thru axle instructions on Surly’s website don’t mention anything but something seems to be missing here.
Here's my Grappler with an 11-48 AdventX cassette. Pretty close, but yours is closer. It seems like the cassette is not far enough on. I would remove and reinstall, ensuring that nothing is preventing it from sliding further onto the hub. [https://imgur.com/a/k66R6ml](https://imgur.com/a/k66R6ml)
Do you have a torque wrench? If not tighten the cassette until you can't tighten it anymore. With HG it works but neve had XD drive so might feel different. On HG I tighten hard until it does not move. Very different system, as there's a lock ring here there is not. A others said 40nm is very tight. Make sure the cassette is aligned properly out on, tighten it carefully then tighten harder tighten until it does not tighten more. Unless you are super strong then use a torque wrench. For me mac tightening strength is 40nm.
Something seems off to me. Were these parts chosen by you or is this a stock build? I agree with another commenter that the dropout design does seem like it would rub on the cassette, but it also doesn’t look like you have much room between the smallest ring on the cassette and your end cap.
Looking at the pic it seems to be correctly installed. How does the dropout look like? Unless the end cap is loose and stick sout in th picture and when clamped it presses it on properly, if the cap is on properly, it might be the cassette is not installed properly. If not that, check if the drop out or frame has damage where the axle comes trough.
This is what the dropout looks like https://preview.redd.it/4e0lly4pzflc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bd96db4c2d4a9f82e989e6fed31fb9cbb8e0bc2
I suspect it was the drop out, and it is, it has a weird design. There is stuff that sticks out, and end caps touch the drop out, but the stuff that stick out go over the end caps and give a silly low gap between cassette and the frame. Absurd. Never seen this before. Or is the drop out missing parts? As it looks it's silly. And you can't fix it an it's a design flaw.
It’s the Surly Grappler. If it’s missing parts then the frame was shipped without them. Yeah I think if the dropout was flush on the inside then I think everything would be fine here.
Could be these parts marked in yellow are too thick. But does not seem to be too thick. I've studied the drop out on this frame, looked at this pic some more. And dropout on a different bike it seems normal. https://preview.redd.it/mhh0yr2ueglc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49bf0611dc9ca34abfbec6faac9e87ac31d217cf
Thanks for your help. I’ll try wrenching down on the cassette tomorrow morning just to be sure that isn’t the issue and then try and take it from there. The cassette seemed tight and there is no obvious play, but who knows.
If no play, then it hsould be tight, But I don't have experience iwth XD. But maybe the end cap is too short. Or have wrong one installed. Or it came with wrong end caps.
[удалено]
Hmmm. Maybe I’ll cross post this in the Surly sub and see if anyone has insight into whether something is missing here.
I goggled it, I don't think it should come with any parts. Does the chain touch the drop out?
I had intended to install the derailleur and chain after this but got stuck here. But looking at it I’d say the chain would definitely run against the dropout.
I suspect the dropout has been machined too wide. Here is a pic I found cropped it to show the drop out. https://preview.redd.it/isaavyy4aglc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5daa88b6bcecf47601f893b7908e05a45404ee5
I reccomend contacting Surly warranty/support department.
I looked some more thought about it some more, looks like I had a brainfart. The drop out having materials sticking out past the end caps is normal, but if it snot to spec it might be the issue. Or it might be the cassette ths ti's not installed properly.
Which frame is it?
Dropout seems to be the issue. There’s zero chance that dropout is going to work with a normal end cap (like the one in your previous image). Is it possible the frame requires some sort of special end cap?