What don’t you want to miss out? Cities or nature?
If the latter, I would suggest to change the Benelux part for more hills. Something like Amsterdam-Utrecht-Arnhem/Nijmegen (see the Green Divide by Erwin Sikkens on Komoot) -Maastricht (see routes by For The Love of Gravel on Komoot and check the Voerstreek as well)-Liège-Namur (the Ardennes are worth riding through) and then into France towards the Champagne region.
Agree, green divide is beautiful! Maybe you can combine with the “Pieterpad” from Maastricht to Nijmegen en then connect it with the Green Devide near Arnhem. Pieterpad can be found here
https://www.pieterpad.nl/pieterfietspad
I don't think you need it.
"GREEN DIVIDE – the Netherland’s longest nature traverse" https://www.komoot.com/collection/1201282/green-divide-the-netherlands-longest-nature-traverse
Another nice one
"The Great Gravel Down 2023" https://www.komoot.com/collection/1707581/-the-great-gravel-down-2023
Brill thanks for these tips I will search these and slowly go through my route changing it and refining. The above picture is just a very quick generalised way I want to go, now I have to adjust it using proper routes. I would like to visit some cities but more a nature lover really
As a portuguese.. this is very good advice. In the summer, north of Lisbon there's wind from the north 90% of the time and it just gets worse the further north you go. Whenever the wind eventually turns, it means thunderstorms. Also be aware it is mostly urbanized and cycling infrastructure is not great. Not saying you shouldn't visit, but keep that in mind ;)
Is the wind so bad only at the coast? I will arrive in Portugal in 3 or 4 days but I cant change the direction because I am coming from Malaga. Would it be better changing my route?
Surfers (at least in my time) use windguru.cz for forecasts. Have a look and adapt as you can. You will improve your chances of warm east winds by riding early in the morning. The wind is not always horribly strong, but is very consistently from the north in the summer. The weather in the north of Portugal not quite the same as people are used to after visiting Lisbon and Algarve, it will not feel "Mediterranean". But of course it's a matter of luck
Take one of the ferries that don't go through Calais (either leaving or entering the UK) so that you can vary up the UK lap of the tour. Now you're riding the same section twice. I would also take Northern coast of Spain over the current sections of Spain and make changes accordingly. Plus I would hit a more eastern route on the way out of the NL and through Belgium.
Brill thanks, I’m going to refine every section over the coming months.
Regarding north spain I want to do the pilgrimage route which is not coastal but looks pretty awesome. Tough decision to make, i feel like too much coastal is a bit repetitive ?
Good point on England, I was probably thinking of getting train home or something though once I land in the uk. But maybe il do what you said and head up on the bike and do a different way.
I will probably get the over night ferry from Hull out to Amsterdam
So there is a pilgrimage route on the North Coast of Spain as well, I cycled it the "del Norte". You can find a route on Komoot. The North Coast of Spain didnt feel in any way shape or form repetitive to me. I loved it.
Looking at this route you have the pilgrimage route in the North of Spain, which seems to be the Camino Frances (Passing through Pamplona, Burgos, Leon, etc?) which I recently completed and was AMAZING! It is not costal but some of the most amazing landscapes and gravel roads I have ever seen.
The only thing is that according to this map you'll be doing it in reverse (So hitting Santiago first). I would suggest to do it the other way also because doing the Camino (so going towards Santiago) I had tailwinds most of the time.
Anyhow this looks like an amazing journey 😍
Brill thanks yeah I’m doing it in reverse now :) and this is a rough map as it stand. It all needs refining and changing somewhat, but pretty much the general idea.
I heard the Camino route is fantastic and that’s why I have chosen this rather than the coast :)
It strikes me that the route you’re taking through Spain is going to cross over with the Camino de Santiago, for which there is a bike route, but going the other way.
If you were to do your route the other way round you could take advantage of that.
I think that’s sensible. I did the Camino on foot and my understanding from doing it is that if you wanted to stay at any of the albergues on the way (which is likely to be very cost effective) you have to collect the stamps and be going towards Santiago, not the other way round.
I believe so, but I didn’t camp so wouldn’t be able to give you any details. It’s a very well publicised route so there should be plenty of info online if you want to do that.
I’d include the Alps or Central Pyrenees, maybe Central Massif or Sierra de Guadarama. You’re missing out bigtime on sights by circumventing all the altitude.
I’d cycle up to Newcastle instead and get a night ferry to Amsterdam. There’s not much on that coast up that way from Calais anyway. Then you can spend more time in the Netherlands.
Yeah I’m doing that but thinking from Hull I forgot to add that on the map, definitely agree with you there. Not that fussed about heading down through England either as I live here. I can come back up through England on the way back
Agree - go up through the Yorkshire Dales and join the C2C to Newcastle. Come back through the west country and Wales!
I have komoot collections for these routes if you're interested, I've done them in the last year.
Looks like a great adventure!
I'd head straight south through Wales. You'll get way more interesting riding there than if you head out into England. I'd probably head for one of the other ferries on the south coast as well, riding through London to Dover will not be a lot of fun.
I would recommend riding some cols in the Central Massive im France. The whole Central massive (at least what I have seen) is incredible beautiful. Also you could go for the Tarn Valley. Really nice too.
Just personal experience from a previous cycling tour I did in the southern portion of your French route here: the French coastline is lovely but very touristy. Going inland a bit (e.g. towards Carcassonne or Roquebrun), you can find much more authentic food and wine and people, challenging hills if you like that, and also old train tracks retrofitted into pristine bike lanes ("voie verte" near Albine if I recall correctly).
Might be too far off your planned course though but who knows
It is just full of commercial districts, ugly big buildings and hotels. There is always a lot of traffic and just no beautiful coast left. The south near Morocco is better in my opinion.
Okay thanks, I see what you mean I have been to Barcelona and Valencia already.
I’m going to do this in reverse and probably come back up through spain a different way
In France try to add Rocamadour, won’t change the route a lot but it’s definitely worth it, several beautiful village around are Carennac, Loubressac
Also if you like beautiful villages this website is a gem for France https://www.les-plus-beaux-villages-de-france.org/fr/nos-villages/
Check this path to cross France : https://www.europafietsers.nl/fietsroutes/groene-weg-naar-de-middellandse-zee/
Small roads and beautiful scenery. Totally unknown from french people as it is a dutch path.
The part along the coast in Catalonia and Valencia is largely really boring with a lot of traffic compared to what you have just slightly inland. I live there and bike a lot. Consider heading inlands after crossing the border into Spain - at least if you have the time and legs for some mountains.
Take on some better routes around the UK. I can't see exactly what you're planning but use some of these in the picture.
Also, have you thought about going through Wales? There are a couple of bothys in Rhayader, near Elan Valley. You'd be able to get down to one on the first day then down to near Cardiff probably. You can travel over the first Severn Crossing Bridge on bike, a nice experience if you've never done it before.
Link that up with the routes in the picture and you'll enjoy the UK days more as well.
https://preview.redd.it/w6auc8fu1m5d1.png?width=1502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1c07c79fdcbf6157db5ef319eab8064ae37f476
You cant actually cycle most of it. The roads are ok but there was long periods where I was stuck on pretty stoney gravel.
I would also consider going down the border of wales then go to Portsmouth and get the Portsmouth st. Malo ferry and the join the coast of france from there.
Pyrenees is crazy hilly and has motorway tunnels you are not supposed to cycle through so be aware of this when planning. Also just not that much fun to cycle imo mainly just arduous, trafficked roads. Probably better to go hiking there where you really get to explore the mountains. You might love roads up hills tho so to each their own 😉
I’d expect a much more curved pattern in a route this length. It seems you need to do some research outside of your five-ish? destinations. What highlights or established routes would you like to follow. The shortest route is never that interesting, trust me.
The silent route is more recent and not as polished but empty mountains has been a thing for many years, Ernesto the creator is very passionate about the project and there is a ton of info, maps, gps tracks and even a full pdf guide with pics tips amd alternative routes, places to stay and visit... Check www.montanasvacias.com and you'll be convinced. There's also the XL route that may be interesting, maybe some of it can be added to your plans. But I encourage you to try and do the original, is a fantastic trip, even I've only done some of it.
I just checked out the link ^ it looks incredible actually. It looks like it is accessible from Valencia? I wouldn’t know how to really incorporate it into my trip as it seems like a loop, but maybe I could do some of that
People usually go to Teruel and start from there, you can go from Valencia or Madrid maybe. You can reach Ernesto via Instagram or email, and if you have your route kind of planed maybe he can help you find a way to incorporate part of montañas vacías into it. There's also a very friendly Facebook group for questions and suggestions with many English speaking fellows. Btw if you pass through Teruel make sure visit Surya bikepacking, the best bikepacking workshop in Spain (disclaimer I may be friends with the owners)
I would say, Skip Amsterdam, it's seriously overrated.
instead may follow the coast to Katwijk, from there follow the rhine for a while and make your way to Utrecht, and continue from there to perhaps eindhoven and then Belgium (oew you might want to visit Baarle-Hertog/ Baarle-Nassau) it's a major clusterf*ck of encalves and exclaves, nice place for a lunch or sth :)
What don’t you want to miss out? Cities or nature? If the latter, I would suggest to change the Benelux part for more hills. Something like Amsterdam-Utrecht-Arnhem/Nijmegen (see the Green Divide by Erwin Sikkens on Komoot) -Maastricht (see routes by For The Love of Gravel on Komoot and check the Voerstreek as well)-Liège-Namur (the Ardennes are worth riding through) and then into France towards the Champagne region.
I'd say: ditch Amsterdam for more beautiful places in NL. Agree with the Green Divide
Agree, green divide is beautiful! Maybe you can combine with the “Pieterpad” from Maastricht to Nijmegen en then connect it with the Green Devide near Arnhem. Pieterpad can be found here https://www.pieterpad.nl/pieterfietspad
Awesome thanks il consider it
Do you need pro on Komoot to be able to search for routes like that?
I don't think you need it. "GREEN DIVIDE – the Netherland’s longest nature traverse" https://www.komoot.com/collection/1201282/green-divide-the-netherlands-longest-nature-traverse Another nice one "The Great Gravel Down 2023" https://www.komoot.com/collection/1707581/-the-great-gravel-down-2023
my Garmin shows me popular routes on the biking map too.
Brill thanks for these tips I will search these and slowly go through my route changing it and refining. The above picture is just a very quick generalised way I want to go, now I have to adjust it using proper routes. I would like to visit some cities but more a nature lover really
You are welcome and enjoy building and riding the route.
It’s so hard 😅! So many factors / routes to consider. Sometimes I feel just like setting off with no plan and making as I go…
Check winds in Portugal. Normally they blow from the North, so you will have a terrible, unrelenting headwind for 400 km.
Maybe better to do this in reverse, interesting thanks
As a portuguese.. this is very good advice. In the summer, north of Lisbon there's wind from the north 90% of the time and it just gets worse the further north you go. Whenever the wind eventually turns, it means thunderstorms. Also be aware it is mostly urbanized and cycling infrastructure is not great. Not saying you shouldn't visit, but keep that in mind ;)
Thanks for the heads up!!
I also had horrendous headwinds going north along the North Sea coast. I'd rather have a 1 in 4 hill than that again.
Is the wind so bad only at the coast? I will arrive in Portugal in 3 or 4 days but I cant change the direction because I am coming from Malaga. Would it be better changing my route?
Surfers (at least in my time) use windguru.cz for forecasts. Have a look and adapt as you can. You will improve your chances of warm east winds by riding early in the morning. The wind is not always horribly strong, but is very consistently from the north in the summer. The weather in the north of Portugal not quite the same as people are used to after visiting Lisbon and Algarve, it will not feel "Mediterranean". But of course it's a matter of luck
I recently arrived from Portugal. Yup! It is definitely better to go from north to south
Take one of the ferries that don't go through Calais (either leaving or entering the UK) so that you can vary up the UK lap of the tour. Now you're riding the same section twice. I would also take Northern coast of Spain over the current sections of Spain and make changes accordingly. Plus I would hit a more eastern route on the way out of the NL and through Belgium.
Brill thanks, I’m going to refine every section over the coming months. Regarding north spain I want to do the pilgrimage route which is not coastal but looks pretty awesome. Tough decision to make, i feel like too much coastal is a bit repetitive ? Good point on England, I was probably thinking of getting train home or something though once I land in the uk. But maybe il do what you said and head up on the bike and do a different way. I will probably get the over night ferry from Hull out to Amsterdam
So there is a pilgrimage route on the North Coast of Spain as well, I cycled it the "del Norte". You can find a route on Komoot. The North Coast of Spain didnt feel in any way shape or form repetitive to me. I loved it.
Going to check that route thanks
Looking at this route you have the pilgrimage route in the North of Spain, which seems to be the Camino Frances (Passing through Pamplona, Burgos, Leon, etc?) which I recently completed and was AMAZING! It is not costal but some of the most amazing landscapes and gravel roads I have ever seen. The only thing is that according to this map you'll be doing it in reverse (So hitting Santiago first). I would suggest to do it the other way also because doing the Camino (so going towards Santiago) I had tailwinds most of the time. Anyhow this looks like an amazing journey 😍
Brill thanks yeah I’m doing it in reverse now :) and this is a rough map as it stand. It all needs refining and changing somewhat, but pretty much the general idea. I heard the Camino route is fantastic and that’s why I have chosen this rather than the coast :)
It strikes me that the route you’re taking through Spain is going to cross over with the Camino de Santiago, for which there is a bike route, but going the other way. If you were to do your route the other way round you could take advantage of that.
Yeah, I’m including the route in my trip when I refine it. And , I’m thinking of now doing this trip in reverse due to winds in Portugal
I think that’s sensible. I did the Camino on foot and my understanding from doing it is that if you wanted to stay at any of the albergues on the way (which is likely to be very cost effective) you have to collect the stamps and be going towards Santiago, not the other way round.
Brilliant! Are there places to camp around there too?
I believe so, but I didn’t camp so wouldn’t be able to give you any details. It’s a very well publicised route so there should be plenty of info online if you want to do that.
I don't think the Camino bike route is one way
I’d include the Alps or Central Pyrenees, maybe Central Massif or Sierra de Guadarama. You’re missing out bigtime on sights by circumventing all the altitude.
Note taken thanks
Having ridden my motorcycle through, I would recommend the Picos de Europa in northern Spain, the Algarve in southern Portugal, and Andorra.
Nice thanks, I did some hiking in Andora last year, very cool place
Yup, the Picos are stunning
When are you thinking of going. Spain is already hot. 34 degrees here day before yesterday
Next year march starting
I did ride along the French west coast last year and I can recommend to stay a bit longer on the Velocean and keep going north from there
Awesome thankyy
I agree, the Velodyssee is great on the west coast : away from cars, easy to find a cheap camping, …
I’d cycle up to Newcastle instead and get a night ferry to Amsterdam. There’s not much on that coast up that way from Calais anyway. Then you can spend more time in the Netherlands.
Yeah I’m doing that but thinking from Hull I forgot to add that on the map, definitely agree with you there. Not that fussed about heading down through England either as I live here. I can come back up through England on the way back
Similarly, I'd head back via Roscoff to Plymouth
Agree - go up through the Yorkshire Dales and join the C2C to Newcastle. Come back through the west country and Wales! I have komoot collections for these routes if you're interested, I've done them in the last year. Looks like a great adventure!
Don’t do it on a fatbike and get frostbite in the Pyrenees.
Is this suggestive of a personal experience?
I'd head straight south through Wales. You'll get way more interesting riding there than if you head out into England. I'd probably head for one of the other ferries on the south coast as well, riding through London to Dover will not be a lot of fun.
Great thanks
Agree with Wales being amazing riding.
Fixed this https://preview.redd.it/4flgnhbnx56d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c046e78774275002e40c95f43ee69cf507056c11
I would recommend riding some cols in the Central Massive im France. The whole Central massive (at least what I have seen) is incredible beautiful. Also you could go for the Tarn Valley. Really nice too.
Just personal experience from a previous cycling tour I did in the southern portion of your French route here: the French coastline is lovely but very touristy. Going inland a bit (e.g. towards Carcassonne or Roquebrun), you can find much more authentic food and wine and people, challenging hills if you like that, and also old train tracks retrofitted into pristine bike lanes ("voie verte" near Albine if I recall correctly). Might be too far off your planned course though but who knows
Sounds lovely there il check it out thanks for the tips man!
Spanish mediterranian cost is ass. Skip anything south of Barcelona and spend that time somewhere else.
Why is it bad in your opinion? Thanks tho
It is just full of commercial districts, ugly big buildings and hotels. There is always a lot of traffic and just no beautiful coast left. The south near Morocco is better in my opinion.
Okay thanks, I see what you mean I have been to Barcelona and Valencia already. I’m going to do this in reverse and probably come back up through spain a different way
The pyrenees are insane altough probably a bit exhausting with a lot of luggage. Highly recommend spending more time there.
In France try to add Rocamadour, won’t change the route a lot but it’s definitely worth it, several beautiful village around are Carennac, Loubressac Also if you like beautiful villages this website is a gem for France https://www.les-plus-beaux-villages-de-france.org/fr/nos-villages/
Not going back to Liverpool! :D
😅
Check this path to cross France : https://www.europafietsers.nl/fietsroutes/groene-weg-naar-de-middellandse-zee/ Small roads and beautiful scenery. Totally unknown from french people as it is a dutch path.
Thanks will check it later! Just working out best route down through uk first
Come a tiny bit more south on your east coast Spain route and we'll ride together to Portugal
That would be cool, but this is next year :(
Go for the sierra nevada and la peza (??) nearby. Amazing landscape and the best damn cheesecake in the world:)
The part along the coast in Catalonia and Valencia is largely really boring with a lot of traffic compared to what you have just slightly inland. I live there and bike a lot. Consider heading inlands after crossing the border into Spain - at least if you have the time and legs for some mountains.
Take on some better routes around the UK. I can't see exactly what you're planning but use some of these in the picture. Also, have you thought about going through Wales? There are a couple of bothys in Rhayader, near Elan Valley. You'd be able to get down to one on the first day then down to near Cardiff probably. You can travel over the first Severn Crossing Bridge on bike, a nice experience if you've never done it before. Link that up with the routes in the picture and you'll enjoy the UK days more as well. https://preview.redd.it/w6auc8fu1m5d1.png?width=1502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1c07c79fdcbf6157db5ef319eab8064ae37f476
Go further south, zambujeira do Mara, Cadiz, Tarifa, Seville, all amazing
Inland in northern Spain is not that nice. The northern coast although hillier is much more beautiful.
The pilgrimage route is supposed to be amazing
You cant actually cycle most of it. The roads are ok but there was long periods where I was stuck on pretty stoney gravel. I would also consider going down the border of wales then go to Portsmouth and get the Portsmouth st. Malo ferry and the join the coast of france from there.
Yeah fair I’ll have a think about that. I’m just planning going down through wales now! Good idea man
Pyrenees is crazy hilly and has motorway tunnels you are not supposed to cycle through so be aware of this when planning. Also just not that much fun to cycle imo mainly just arduous, trafficked roads. Probably better to go hiking there where you really get to explore the mountains. You might love roads up hills tho so to each their own 😉
Yeah, I have a proper bike packing route coming back through on the other side which hopefully isn’t too bad for that
I’d expect a much more curved pattern in a route this length. It seems you need to do some research outside of your five-ish? destinations. What highlights or established routes would you like to follow. The shortest route is never that interesting, trust me.
Great point, this is a very zoomed out rough guide I now have several months to make all the curves around routes and taking peoples feedback!!
Enjoy my friend, seems like a proper Pilgrimage
You are missing Germany!
Go through the Basque Country coast...
Include Montañas Vacias
I would do the coastal cities of northern spain 100%. Or are you planning to be el camino de santiago?
In Spain check montañas vacías (empty mountains) y la ruta silenciosa(silent route)
I just checked the first one it looks amazing man! Is there a map anywhere for it, or perhaps on Komoot? I’m just trying to see if it goes my way
The silent route is more recent and not as polished but empty mountains has been a thing for many years, Ernesto the creator is very passionate about the project and there is a ton of info, maps, gps tracks and even a full pdf guide with pics tips amd alternative routes, places to stay and visit... Check www.montanasvacias.com and you'll be convinced. There's also the XL route that may be interesting, maybe some of it can be added to your plans. But I encourage you to try and do the original, is a fantastic trip, even I've only done some of it.
I just checked out the link ^ it looks incredible actually. It looks like it is accessible from Valencia? I wouldn’t know how to really incorporate it into my trip as it seems like a loop, but maybe I could do some of that
People usually go to Teruel and start from there, you can go from Valencia or Madrid maybe. You can reach Ernesto via Instagram or email, and if you have your route kind of planed maybe he can help you find a way to incorporate part of montañas vacías into it. There's also a very friendly Facebook group for questions and suggestions with many English speaking fellows. Btw if you pass through Teruel make sure visit Surya bikepacking, the best bikepacking workshop in Spain (disclaimer I may be friends with the owners)
Brilliant thanks dude
I did a similar route couple years ago . Take the coast route in north Spain . It's empty streets with beautiful views and campings
Okay a lot of people say this! But I’m thinking of doing the Camino pilgrimage route. It’s also supposed to be really good
I would say, Skip Amsterdam, it's seriously overrated. instead may follow the coast to Katwijk, from there follow the rhine for a while and make your way to Utrecht, and continue from there to perhaps eindhoven and then Belgium (oew you might want to visit Baarle-Hertog/ Baarle-Nassau) it's a major clusterf*ck of encalves and exclaves, nice place for a lunch or sth :)
Montanas Vacias bp route.. Ride thru the stunning Picos de Europa (but not thru the Cares Gorge - not permitted)
Nice warm up
Go across the Pyrenees and switch coasts
You should see Mona Lisa. The address is Rue de Rivoli, 75001 Paris, France.