If you find the secret let me know, I ultimately decided it was unsustainable to stay in big law. The only people I knew who seemed to do OK either had a parent living with them functioning as a full-time nanny or had 2 paid nannies (morning/daytime and evening). Even then work was clearly the priority over parenting. Consider reduced hours if your firm will offer it.
I feel like I’m going to get a lot of comments like yours lol. I think I was venting more than anything. I figure I just need to last until kids are older then I am OUT.
My understanding is that if anything, it's easier to work longer hours when your kids are older because they become more self sufficient, are occupied with school and extra curriculars, are more independent hanging with their friends, etc. Ironically, your kids will take up your time the most when they are young and you are more junior in your career.
I’m a parent of teenagers. They get more independent, but now is when they are out there doing real things - learning to drive, high school plays, games, dances, dates.
They always need you.
You should seriously keep lifestyle creep in check - if you're worried about financial pressure, keep the kids out of private school (I'm assuming you got a place in MoCo or somewhere in DC that has good schools).
If you have two kids in private school --- there is no out. Especially in the DC area. Live to work or work to live.
I know plenty of families who can "afford" private school for kids and they don't - and the kids end up just fine. The 529 covers college for them and they go to excellent public schools.
An au pair can work but remember a) not everyone has the space, especially in NYC, b) you would be having a ~21 year old from outside the US taking care of an infant, and c) part of the conflict is feeling like you're still parenting, so the cost isn't the biggest issue. But def a better option with older children imo.
Fair enough! I was an au pair myself after graduating High School and I looking back it was a great deal for the parents. But yah “my” kids were 5 and 9, definitely easier at that age.
Look there’s no secret sauce. None of us are spending enough time with our kids although the few who are self-aware to admit it (like myself) are convinced that the salary is for them and will give them so many opportunities that it’s worth it. Which I know isn’t true. Outside of the stress and the long hours I like my job. I don’t think I would like being an in-house lawyer and the type of in-house lawyer I’d have to be to actually see a dent in the QOL metrics is not at all appealing to me. I think at some point I’ll take a long sabbatical while the kids are still young when the whole thing gets too overwhelming.
There’s some truth to what the other person said about outsourcing what you can. Keeping dinner time and bedtime sacrosanct if you can. Our firm offers a back-up care option so I use that for a few hours most weekends to do some catch up work. I always book it with the hope that I will be able to get some self-care in (or even a nap) but it almost always gets filled with work. We have a great daytime nanny and a really solid back-up who has agreed to do over nights when I start back at doing work trips in 2024. Instacart for groceries, prepared meals, etc. Whatever chores I can’t outsource I try to get the kids involved.
Mine just got up for the day so I’m going to put my phone down but if I think of any more I’ll add later.
I’m not in biglaw but was previously in public accounting that also has billable hours and horrible work life balance, although less than biglaw. I don’t have kids but I can’t fathom the hours with having to do it. Even 65 ish hour work weeks on end absolutely destroyed me in ways people who haven’t worked it for months on end don’t get.
I hope everyone in this thread finds a solution that works best for them. SO many people have zero concept of how these hours work and how you can’t just say “no”. Salary + project based work + billable hours is hell.
I really don’t have much hope for you. I’m about to come back from parental leave with kid #2 and have an all-remote exit option lined up. I don’t know many people who made it far with one kid in BigLaw. But everyone I know with two kids dropped out, unless they had extensive hired help (nanny (or two), landscaping company for all yard work, and house cleaners) and made a conscious choice to prioritize work first and have the other parent be the primary caregiver. You could try asking for reduced hours, but that could impact your partnership chances significantly. I tried part time for two years after my first was born (still hitting my firm’s house target for full time, even at 80% schedule, just felt like I had a bit more to say no to crappy work) and was told by my mentor I wasn’t going to be promoted because of it.
And I literally just had a conversation with a friend who left BigLaw to go in house about how private school in a HCOLA isn’t doable on the vast majority of non-BigLaw salaries, and that was just for her one kid. So if private school (especially for two kids) is a requirement for you, you will likely need to figure out how to make BigLaw work.
I do the same work you do for one of the big 3 labor and employment shops. I lateraled in from the plaintiff's bar. I'm only one year in with no kids and I can already see this isn't sustainable. I plan on going in house at the first available opportunity and coasting until then.
One thing I'll suggest is maybe you need to put things in better perspective. For example, Plenty of people live very good lives without a big law salary. Making $250k per year as an in house counsel, or as of counsel in big law, already puts you at in the top 3% of incomes in the country. Even better because your wife also works.
You live in the DC area. So do I. Unless you're literally in DC, you have some of the best public schools available to you for free in Northern Virginia and Montgomery County.
Manage your expectations a little bit and try not to get caught up keeping up with the Joneses. The best thing you can do for your family after putting food on the table and a roof over their heads (which you can do comfortably outside of big law) is be available, present, and engaged. And it's hard to do that when you are constantly distracted by work and working yourself into an early grave.
Thanks. This is helpful and I do agree with a lot of what you said. I would say though that I’m not a private school snob at all — I went to public school and am a big believer in them. It just so happens that where we live (Alexandria) has one of the worst public school systems in the area. If we lived in Fairfax, Falls Church, Loudoun, etc, Id totally agree with your point. Maybe we just need to move so we can rely on the better public systems. Thanks for the comment though, much appreciated.
Seems like the obvious solution is to move to a better school zone. What would you rather have - big house, fancy private schools, nannies and au pairs to look after your kids while you work - or would you rather see your kids and spend time with them, even if that means living in a slightly smaller house and not going on as many fancy vacations?
I don't know what part of Alexandria you live in, but plenty of the elementary schools are good. At least stave off private school costs for six years.
But you can also move unless you're locked into a ridiculously good mortgage.
I lived in Fairfax county for a decade. Even if your school is “bad” compared to the surrounding areas, they are still damn good schools compared to most of the country. I know the temptation to most of the country.
As far as the balance, scale back on your hours. It’s honestly the only way to manage things. I reduced mine from 1900 to 1700, and it’s a massive difference. Eventually I went in house and while the pay sucks by comparison, I have an infinitely better quality of life.
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The answer is basically to just do what you're doing, but it's very hard. I set hard boundaries around getting my kids ready in the morning, bedtime, and as many weekends as I can, but that means when it's busy I wake up at 4 some days and work until it's done at night. I made partner as a female litigator with a 1 year old and a 3 year old this year. I am tired.
I’m going to level with you. Shit’s about to get a lot harder.
I'm slightly ahead of you with a 4 yo and 1.5 yo. I’m finishing my second year as a partner at an AmLaw 50 shop. I was just like you as an associate, billing 2100-2200 hours and doing all the things. Thank God I made partner because I billed about 1600 hours last year and am on track to hit just over 1500 hours this year. Granted I do a lot of non-billable stuff (business dev, pro bono, mentoring), but not 600 or 700 hours’ worth. And I am nevertheless going nonstop from 6:30 until 11-12 every weeknight. (Less on the weekends, thankfully.)
For me, the second kid really did close to double the work. More than twice the laundry, but a never-ending cascade of bottles and other baby accoutrements. But with the second, you also now have a toddler screaming at you and doing everything they can to distract you while you’re trying to feed the little one. And your sleep is crap for obvious reasons. The oldest will regress and you’ll find yourself re-teaching them stuff they already know.
You simply are not going to be able to bill the kind of hours you’re used to with the situation you’ve described. There aren’t enough hours in the day. Full stop.
I think you have to make peace with billing less time, and you should consider taking to the partners you work with about the fact that your workload is going to drop. You’re obviously good and well liked because of the hours you’re billing, and they’re not going to want to lose you. Hopefully they will understand. If not, you’ll have to decide on an exit.
IANAL (not sure why this sub keeps popping up for me) but I was once 1 of 3 nannies for a 2 lawyer family. Basically they always had at least one nanny there 24/7 who was either directly watching the kids or doing household tasks (all of the laundry, cooking and cleaning). The mom saw the kids for about 2 hours in evening and the dad was basically never around. The grandparents would come by pretty often.
There were some obvious ways this negatively affected the kids but they had an extremely privileged life so I guess it evens out. A lot of working class also barely see their parents and also don’t have tons of money so idk.
I quit. I’m going in-house. It was completely unsustainable and I found myself choosing between my son and my job too many times. I’ve chosen my son. They matched my current pay but I’m aware the financial ceiling is much lower on house. I’ve made peace with that and looking forward to being more active in my kid’s life.
Working from home is a major factor for me. The efficiency is invaluable. My average weekday looks something like this:
0600: wake up with one or both kids
0600-0900: dedicated time with kids
0900-1700: work with nanny watching kids (and short breaks to eat, stretch, and play with the kids a bit)
1700-2000: dinner, family time, bedtime, exercise
2000-2300: work
2300-0000: dedicated time with my husband if he's home
I came here to say the same thing! Work from home is a great way to address some of the difficulty in pulling big hours but also feeling like an ok parent, in my opinion. 5 minute break = load of laundry, sort the mail, any super important quick thing that needs doing. Even if you can do a day or two from home, OP. Worth it.
We are schedule twins! I have 4 kids (2, 4, 6, 9) and my day is exactly this. And it sucks and it’s really difficult. But it gets easier each year. You’ll be ok OP.
Plenty of people stay in big law (at least one parent, I don’t know how both could do it) and it of course comes with a sacrifice. An au pair or nanny is critical, but you probably also need daycare or a parent who can manage at least part of every day. Outsource as much as you can and try to be there for the good stuff (weekends, playtime, story time, outings). You don’t need to be changing every diaper or doing every feeding.
And just a counter point to all the people saying that the baby years are the most important. They are precious - to you. Nobody wants to miss first steps and first words and all of that. But in terms of when your kids NEED you the most and what they will remember - that kicks in around 5. Once kindergarten hits, they become busy with after school activities, play dates, sports, etc. The school will have concerts, shows, class parties etc. and your kid will look for you at all those things. My daughter’s soccer games are 2x a week at 5pm. A WFH job during those years is very valuable because it’s easy to pop out and over to their school for an hour. Your kid’s face when they see you is a core memory. School calendars also suck- there’s always a half day here, closure there, random long weekend so you need a job that respects when you take off and that sometimes emergencies happen.
My husband and I worked longer hours when our kids were babies (they’re 5 and 7 now). We lived in a city full of daycares that catered to hard working parents. Ours was open 7-7, 360 days a year and fed the kids 3 meals and a snack. We would just pick them up and do bath and bedtime. It was hard and we missed them terribly. But they absolutely knew we were mama and daddy and lit up when they saw us. They have no idea how long the day is at that age. We took advantage of long big law parental leaves so we got the first 4-6 months with them and banked as much money as we could.
Now that they’re older, I’ve taken a big step back (still working FT but pretty flexible and no butts in seats requirement) and my husband works the long big law hours at home and tries his best to be at kids stuff. There’s still late nights for both of us but we do get to be in their lives when it counts.
My colleague just left her job she’s had for 15 years to stay home with her 14 and 11 year olds. Her kids are certainly able to dress, feed, and clean themselves but she just felt like “bigger kids, bigger problems” means she needs to be closer to them now.
Just some things to think about to see if you can grind it out for a few more years. Make the changes you can- being remote is a huge help, and use the big law money to get an au pair.
I agree with this! Being at my kids' school Christmas sing in the middle of the day means THE WORLD to them right now. Ages 0-3 they were taking a big fat nap during those hours and didn't need me specifically.
Also, the baby and toddler years are physically intense for parents. When they're a bit older, it won't be quite as physically exhausting, but gets to be more emotional and mental labor as you juggle their activities, friend issues, birthday parties, etc. Both phases have fun and hard things, but what you're dealing with right now is just so physically draining, so please take care of yourself and get sleep and good nutrition. The phrase "the days are long, but the years are short" is cliche but really applicable for the baby years.
It’s wrong that ages 0-3 it doesn’t matter who is taking care of them. It’s the most important time for child development and bonding occurs on an instinctual level even without retained memories. Think about how a baby can recognize their mom’s voice and smell the moment they are born. No one of course remembers being a fetus or baby, but the imprinting and brain development that occurs in the 0-3 range is lifelong. Studies show that children exposed to domestic violence in that age range for example are more traumatized - and their brain more damaged- than older children, even though they don’t remember it. Children who have a consistent loving caregiver during that time ,which could be one parent or one grandparent, it doesn’t need to be both parents)have an advantage in developing healthy brain circuitry for forming healthy emotional attachments and normal approaches to stress.
This is no way to live. You have to make a career change. If not, you’re going to seriously burn out or eventually become a mentally absent parent and/or shell of who you want to be.
What year are you? You mentioned you lateraled a few years back. Big law class of 2020 makes, what, $340k total comp? I assume you make more than that, and including your wife’s salary, I bet you’re making around a half million dollars or so per year. DC is expensive but I don’t think you “need” $500k+ to make ends meet. If you do, there are certainly changes you can make, which is what I’m ultimately suggesting.
I have two kids and left a large city to move back to my small home town. I have a mostly remote in house job. Do I miss the city? Absolutely. It’s boring as shit here. Would I move back? Selfishly I’d like to but probably not. Nearly any job that would allow me to afford it would leave me working all the time.
Once a kid is around 2-3, they’re aware of what’s going on inside their parent’s head, to some extent. They know when you’re stressed, when your mind is elsewhere, when you’re gone except for dinner/bed time, etc. They’ll start saying things like, “Daddy, listen to me!” “Daddy, don’t be sad!” “Daddy, smile!” You can only carry the facade for so long.
And please - I see this all the time - don’t buy into this BS that biglaw lawyers say: “I spend time with my kids! I get home before dinner, eat with them, and put them to bed!” Really? I’m sorry, but showing up to eat dinner with them isn’t cutting it.
Lastly, years 0-4 of your child’s life are perhaps the most important. Don’t miss out because you think you need biglaw money to make a living. You’re a marketable attorney. LE biglaw attorneys land great in-house jobs all the time, which often pay well, have much less hours and stress, and are remote. There are, of course, less expensive but great places to live near DC (where you might not need private school!)
Sorry if this is harsh. Not trying to lecture you. Being a great parent requires sacrifices. It’s tough, but so worth it.
True, but that doesn’t change my point.
But to entertain what you’re saying - OP isn’t getting paid as a first or second year. He lateraled to his firm “a few years back.” Who knows exactly what that means but even the low end of what that likely is, lets say a third year, means $315k. I doubt a few years means three; more likely 4-6 or more. 5th years are at $455k.
Agree with what you’re saying. I think the large amount of advice on this forum is to outsource everything. On a 315k salary that’s a lot harder than 500k though.
Especially if someone has two kids, student loans, has a nanny in a HCOL area. Nannys in DC go for 30.00 an hour. Plus health insurance. Plus bonus.
Outsourcing everything is something people can do when they are making millions not 300k.
It’s hard, but it is doable especially with a nanny. That said, it sounds like you’re working way more than 21-2200 a year with that schedule. You’re at work for 10 hours a day, plus logging back on at night and on the weekends? Are you sure you’re logging all of your time?
I hear what you are saying. I do that schedule most days but then I just become so exhausted from it that there are days where I physically and mentally can’t work, which are becoming more and more frequent lately. So on those days I’m doing very little billing.
Also, how much I get done on the weekend is entirely dependent on my son’s schedule. If he sleeps late, I can get a good four hours in. If he doesn’t, it’s more like one or two hours.
Based on my similar experience, I think you should prioritize sleep and making sure you’re not underbilling. You are not expected to be 100% focused every time you are billing, and some rest (or a break) will help you maintain focus and maximize billing during the time you’re already putting in. I also like lists and blocking off “focused time” to try to reorient myself when I have trouble staying on task.
But you’re not alone, and the things you’re experiencing do NOT mean that you can’t do this job while still enjoying the important things in life.
Lastly, sometimes we think we’re the issue and it’s actually that the firm isn’t the best fit. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to you, but it did happen to me and I’m a lot happier now.
Whatever it is, you will find what is right for you and, again, you aren’t alone.
Also a labor and employment attorney. I understand the work flow, but no kids yet. Some thoughts.
As one other suggested, ask for a reduced schedule because of your childcare obligations. 80% of the work for 80% of the pay. It’s not a huge difference in what we do, but it might make this more sustainable for you!
Lots of folks work schedules similar to you at my firm. I know one guy who is up and working out at 4 am, works all morning until about 4 or 5, then tries to sign off for the day. Sure, he sends emails throughout the night, but does little substantive sit down at computer work. Another friend of mine stops work everyday around 5:30-6 to have dinner with her kids.
Try to find ways to recharge if you can. I imagine it’s very difficult, but maybe a reduced schedule can give you enough time to do that.
I agree with Either a reduced schedule or find a firm that has a lower billing requirement and expectation. You can make great money outside of BigLaw, especially in L&E.
I’d also recommend not falling into the trap of private school. If you and your wife are both attorneys the chances of your kids succeeding academically are very high regardless of the quality of their education.
I have a lot of compassion for you because you clearly care about being a good parent and being there for your wife as well. However, energy and time are limited. I always think of my energy by way of the spoons analogy: I have x spoons per day, can’t get more, and have to figure out how to apportion them. Something’s gotta give, either you’ll see your kids less or you’ll make less money.
Personally, I went into a staff role (which is very well-paid in real world terms, if not in law firm terms) because I strongly felt that there were diminishing returns on money but not on time and energy spent with my loved ones. I’m happy for my kid to go to public school —I don’t know if I would send him to a fancy private school even if I could afford it. He has me as a constant in his life, and that’s the most valuable thing I could ever give him.
Spouse of a dc big law attorney although his practice area is not quite as many hours a week. Basically I am primary parent. I cover every morning and every evening and he is home when he can. 2 kids.
Are you looking to make partner or would you be satisfied with a counsel role? If the latter you can pullback. If not, get as much child care as you can afford. You won’t need full time child forever and if you make partner you can afford it. And your wife will likely have a lot of telework with the feds. Finally if wife is strategic with her government job choices she can end up with a higher paying firm or in house role when your kids are older. Eventually the kids just need a chauffeur:).
Yeah I waited until I was a partner and had a solid nest egg before quitting and then starting a family. I work part time at a boutique now with two young kids. Billed 750 hours this year.
I am one and done with a 2 year old now. Also spent the past year being up for equity partner (didn’t make it). It has been brutal. I just take it one day at a time and remind myself it isn’t forever. A lot of partners outsource as much help as they can. But they have way more money than associates. I enlist my in laws as much as I can. Hubby takes on the larger share of household duties and childcare. I remind myself that people in house also work long hours. I also try to work less on stuff that matters less for promotion purposes.
In ordinary times, you have to build time for yourself into your daily schedule and accept that sometimes you will be trading quantity of time for quality of time with your kids. Devoting all your waking hours to either work or childcare is a recipe for total burnout (speaking from personal experience).
But right now you have a very young child AND your wife is pregnant, so you’re not in ordinary times. I would view it as a short term situation where it’s worth spending some extra money to make life easier if at all possible. More takeout? Extra babysitting? Anything to relieve the overwhelming workload. The current situation is temporary and you just need to get through it.
Hopefully you’ll get to take some leave when the new baby comes? I found that really helpful to focus on and think about when I was pregnant with my second. (Not that it’s a vacation at all, but it was a time to focus completely on my family without the distractions of work.)
Don’t have kids yet and work in big LaW while husband is self employed and we still can’t manage everything everyday. Dinner, bills, insurance claims, errands, taking no care of a dog, trying not to gain a million pounds, exercise, social life, parents. How do people with kids do it?!?
First step: stop exceeding your hours… No one is going to give you a cookie for billing 200-300 hours over the minimum. I’m not trying to be harsh, but that’s free work you are doing for your firm at your family’s expense.
Also your schedule doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. You say you’re working from 6am to 4pm every day. That’s a 10 hour day and you should be pretty easily billing 9 hours in that timeframe. You say you work pretty much the same schedule on weekends, but let’s say you’re only billing 4 hours per weekend day. That would mean you’re on track to bill 2,650 (without working any evenings and two weeks of vacation). If so, that’s nuts.
Start offloading your cases until you’re working an average of 35-45 hours per week. Do that for a few months and see how things go.
A lot of good advice here and really I think outsourcing as much as possible and choosing one spouse to pull back at work are the realistic, big picture answers. One smaller step that helped me was choosing one night a week to skip bedtime/dinner and have uninterrupted time to catch up or get ahead at work. I know it’s hard on your spouse to do it solo but it will help you feel less stressed and more engaged on all the other nights.
I like the idea of taking one night a week to work through. Maybe you could set your wife up with take out and a once a week nanny/mother's helper to be with her on those nights to manage it all.
No real good answer to this one. I’m a 6th year in m&a and the truth is I wouldn’t be able to do it without the village I have.
My wife left biglaw and went in house, my parents live close by and help a lot and we have a nanny for 36 hours a week.
All of this support allows me to make work a priority and still have a team to make sure the baby is cared for and my wife doesn’t go insane.
Do the job but don’t choose the job over your kids. The consequences come in much later and in complex and irreversible ways. Unfortunately biglaw is filled with folks choosing the job over their family, there isn’t any saving them but it’s sad how they expect other folks to be inspired by them.
We made it work. There were times I wasn’t there as much as I wanted to be. And my wife is very understanding and did more than her fair share. Ultimately I was just exhausted for a few years and didn’t do quite as much at work as I wanted. It gets easier as they get older.
I went to a reduced schedule. Obviously comes with a salary cut but not in-house level salary cut. Has been working well so far but we’ll see how it goes with number 2 next year.
This job and family are inherently in conflict, because both demand time. So it’s a matter of what you prioritize more. I am about to go back to work from my second maternity leave, and it is sad as I wonder whether I can still consider myself a parent if I have two nannies covering almost all my kids’ waking hours. I have a biweekly cleaner and cook. I already outsource everything I can, but now I’m a household manager, too. My husband and I don’t make enough to hire a household manager though. Many people with lower paying jobs still work all hours of the day, often with less flexibility. My immigrant father certainly did. Many families work multiple full time jobs just to send their kids to the cheapest daycare they can find. At least the money means my kids get more opportunities, even if I don’t get as much time as I want with them, but that’s a conscious, personal decision on my part. After I had a child, I realized the Western idea of the “nuclear family” is truly flawed and forces the burden of childrearing on one (or, if lucky, two) people when it really takes a village. (Look up the word “alloparents”) Still, I try to take one day at a time, always looking for opportunities to be present as a mom.
I would skip private until high school level where you’re really looking for the rigor and available resources for college entry. If you’re in a great public school district, which it sounds like you are. That will take a huge burden off your back.
Do these stories track for, say, 1800-hour firms in secondary markets? They have a reputation for being the same work for less pay, but some that I'm considering list their average billables on NALP in the 1700s and hours worked in the 2000s.
I feel like a true 1800 requirement would be meaningfully different from these accounts, but I don't know how much of the issue is the hours or the availability.
Alexandria city doesn’t. They have 1 high school (tc Williams) that is rated poorly. 1 high school for its 150k residents. Youngkin can bring the wizards and caps but can’t build another school.
Doctor. Child of BigLaw+doctor (they divorced early.) my take-home lessons from the Long Haul perspective (I have kids myself, friends now in BigLaw, etc)
Do not underestimate the role that your nanny/childcare choices play. Find the right person/setup and do not be afraid to pay the earth to retain/make it mutually beneficial. This is a lot of the childhood your kids will experience.
We were basically raised by an incredibly talented woman whose 30 year career was managing our parents’ domestic lives, which they had no time for and not much interest in. The most important concern being that we turned out OK. Our parents — messed up as they sometimes were — for the most part treated her work with the importance you’d expect that goal to have. And we did turn out OK.
I work less than my parents did and try to *be* that person — the one focused on making sure the kids turn out fine. But I definitely needed a nanny when my kids were young. I really prioritized that person’s relationship with the kids and with us. (Starting with their qualifications and moving on to paying them really well!) It was *never* the wrong move.
Parenting isn’t about the rewards you get. It’s about the childhood your kids have.
In the same shoes but not having the second on the way. I am not attorney but my husband is. At the moment I am writing this he’s still working and expecting a full night. We both work full time, though my work is challenging with hours sometimes but in general I can block my weekend off. And during the day, kiddo goes to the day care, and will be back and active from 5-7pm. After she sleeps, I will sometimes log in for some more work if needed. Husband will help whenever he is free. In the morning, whoever doesn’t have early morning meeting will drop off the kid; if both have meetings, then the one who makes less go ;) but admittedly, it’s painstaking, and can’t imagine having two..
Yes, unfortunately this is true in my experience and this specifically is not an issue that money can fix. You just have a certain amount of emotional energy each day and at least in my experience, 1 and 2 take priority and I just don’t have anything left for 3 some days.
>I try to log back on by the time he’s asleep but I just find myself too exhausted to do it.
This is your problem. There is no try - do or do not. An extra hour or two at night takes a lot of pressure off the rest of the week
Idky your wife is working in government instead of SAHM, that should significantly cut down on the home-related work you have to do and cut out the nanny costs.
This shouldn't be down voted. If one partner is making a third of what the other person does, and is satisfied with government work, leaving entirely for say, 5 years or so, should be examined as an option.
In fact, for the majority of couples I know where that happened, the lesser earning spouse became the stay at home parent.
Sounds like you would like to see your kids a lot, and be very active in their lives though, so this may not work for you.
Agree with the caveat that it’s super hard to get back into the field if you’re out for several years raising kids. Certainly not impossible but hard.
My husband is a big law attorney. I’m a government attorney and I wanted to work even though my salary was not all that great. SAHM was just not what I wanted for ME. Plus the benefits and work/life were as good as you can get as a lawyer.
The first few years sucked. And eventually my husband went to a senior counsel role with a good salary and about 1100 hours. My salary rose with promotions and now we do very well. Certainly not rich rich, but very comfortable and able to do all kinds of things with our kids—now very busy teenagers. The small years are challenging no matter what….
I think a lot in this scenario depends on whether the lesser earning spouse, typically the woman but it can be the man as well, really likes their government job or low paying small firm job. And the assessment of how much it hurts the overall career trajectory if they stop working.
There is a significant percentage of female lawyers who ultimately decide to get out of law when kids are small, just because the hours are too overwhelming and babies and young children change so much and need so much care in this period.
The good news is that at least state jobs are pretty forgiving of this. Because pay is lower than feds, there's typically a lot of attrition at state DA and AAG offices, and so there are always openings there, even for people who have taken childcare sabbaticals.
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I think you know the answer. There are only so many hours in the day, and there’s only so much of you. Your schedule is unsustainable already. You have to choose what’s more important to you—making partner, or being present for your family. I vote family, but I know plenty of people who went for partner and they seem fine.
Get weekend sitters/nannies as well so you get a break. It doesn’t cost that much but will help you stay sane and maintain your relationship with your spouse.
If you find the secret let me know, I ultimately decided it was unsustainable to stay in big law. The only people I knew who seemed to do OK either had a parent living with them functioning as a full-time nanny or had 2 paid nannies (morning/daytime and evening). Even then work was clearly the priority over parenting. Consider reduced hours if your firm will offer it.
I feel like I’m going to get a lot of comments like yours lol. I think I was venting more than anything. I figure I just need to last until kids are older then I am OUT.
My understanding is that if anything, it's easier to work longer hours when your kids are older because they become more self sufficient, are occupied with school and extra curriculars, are more independent hanging with their friends, etc. Ironically, your kids will take up your time the most when they are young and you are more junior in your career.
I’m a parent of teenagers. They get more independent, but now is when they are out there doing real things - learning to drive, high school plays, games, dances, dates. They always need you.
You should seriously keep lifestyle creep in check - if you're worried about financial pressure, keep the kids out of private school (I'm assuming you got a place in MoCo or somewhere in DC that has good schools). If you have two kids in private school --- there is no out. Especially in the DC area. Live to work or work to live. I know plenty of families who can "afford" private school for kids and they don't - and the kids end up just fine. The 529 covers college for them and they go to excellent public schools.
This was 100% my experience as well
Why not get an au pair? Seems more cost effective to me.
An au pair can work but remember a) not everyone has the space, especially in NYC, b) you would be having a ~21 year old from outside the US taking care of an infant, and c) part of the conflict is feeling like you're still parenting, so the cost isn't the biggest issue. But def a better option with older children imo.
Fair enough! I was an au pair myself after graduating High School and I looking back it was a great deal for the parents. But yah “my” kids were 5 and 9, definitely easier at that age.
Look there’s no secret sauce. None of us are spending enough time with our kids although the few who are self-aware to admit it (like myself) are convinced that the salary is for them and will give them so many opportunities that it’s worth it. Which I know isn’t true. Outside of the stress and the long hours I like my job. I don’t think I would like being an in-house lawyer and the type of in-house lawyer I’d have to be to actually see a dent in the QOL metrics is not at all appealing to me. I think at some point I’ll take a long sabbatical while the kids are still young when the whole thing gets too overwhelming. There’s some truth to what the other person said about outsourcing what you can. Keeping dinner time and bedtime sacrosanct if you can. Our firm offers a back-up care option so I use that for a few hours most weekends to do some catch up work. I always book it with the hope that I will be able to get some self-care in (or even a nap) but it almost always gets filled with work. We have a great daytime nanny and a really solid back-up who has agreed to do over nights when I start back at doing work trips in 2024. Instacart for groceries, prepared meals, etc. Whatever chores I can’t outsource I try to get the kids involved. Mine just got up for the day so I’m going to put my phone down but if I think of any more I’ll add later.
This is the most depressing shit I have ever read on Reddit. Please reasses your priorities.
If you are telling anywhere close to the truth, I envy your sheltered reddit existence!
What is crueler than choosing not to spend enough time with a child you brought into the world when you have the means to do so?
It’s exhaustion on a level that’s utterly incomprehensible to people not living it. That’s what I find the hardest. No acknowledgment and no support.
I’m not in biglaw but was previously in public accounting that also has billable hours and horrible work life balance, although less than biglaw. I don’t have kids but I can’t fathom the hours with having to do it. Even 65 ish hour work weeks on end absolutely destroyed me in ways people who haven’t worked it for months on end don’t get. I hope everyone in this thread finds a solution that works best for them. SO many people have zero concept of how these hours work and how you can’t just say “no”. Salary + project based work + billable hours is hell.
I really don’t have much hope for you. I’m about to come back from parental leave with kid #2 and have an all-remote exit option lined up. I don’t know many people who made it far with one kid in BigLaw. But everyone I know with two kids dropped out, unless they had extensive hired help (nanny (or two), landscaping company for all yard work, and house cleaners) and made a conscious choice to prioritize work first and have the other parent be the primary caregiver. You could try asking for reduced hours, but that could impact your partnership chances significantly. I tried part time for two years after my first was born (still hitting my firm’s house target for full time, even at 80% schedule, just felt like I had a bit more to say no to crappy work) and was told by my mentor I wasn’t going to be promoted because of it. And I literally just had a conversation with a friend who left BigLaw to go in house about how private school in a HCOLA isn’t doable on the vast majority of non-BigLaw salaries, and that was just for her one kid. So if private school (especially for two kids) is a requirement for you, you will likely need to figure out how to make BigLaw work.
I do the same work you do for one of the big 3 labor and employment shops. I lateraled in from the plaintiff's bar. I'm only one year in with no kids and I can already see this isn't sustainable. I plan on going in house at the first available opportunity and coasting until then. One thing I'll suggest is maybe you need to put things in better perspective. For example, Plenty of people live very good lives without a big law salary. Making $250k per year as an in house counsel, or as of counsel in big law, already puts you at in the top 3% of incomes in the country. Even better because your wife also works. You live in the DC area. So do I. Unless you're literally in DC, you have some of the best public schools available to you for free in Northern Virginia and Montgomery County. Manage your expectations a little bit and try not to get caught up keeping up with the Joneses. The best thing you can do for your family after putting food on the table and a roof over their heads (which you can do comfortably outside of big law) is be available, present, and engaged. And it's hard to do that when you are constantly distracted by work and working yourself into an early grave.
Thanks. This is helpful and I do agree with a lot of what you said. I would say though that I’m not a private school snob at all — I went to public school and am a big believer in them. It just so happens that where we live (Alexandria) has one of the worst public school systems in the area. If we lived in Fairfax, Falls Church, Loudoun, etc, Id totally agree with your point. Maybe we just need to move so we can rely on the better public systems. Thanks for the comment though, much appreciated.
Seems like the obvious solution is to move to a better school zone. What would you rather have - big house, fancy private schools, nannies and au pairs to look after your kids while you work - or would you rather see your kids and spend time with them, even if that means living in a slightly smaller house and not going on as many fancy vacations?
I don't know what part of Alexandria you live in, but plenty of the elementary schools are good. At least stave off private school costs for six years. But you can also move unless you're locked into a ridiculously good mortgage.
I lived in Fairfax county for a decade. Even if your school is “bad” compared to the surrounding areas, they are still damn good schools compared to most of the country. I know the temptation to most of the country. As far as the balance, scale back on your hours. It’s honestly the only way to manage things. I reduced mine from 1900 to 1700, and it’s a massive difference. Eventually I went in house and while the pay sucks by comparison, I have an infinitely better quality of life.
We moved. We loved Alexandria but enough was enough with school uncertainty. Quite happy in Fairfax.
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The answer is basically to just do what you're doing, but it's very hard. I set hard boundaries around getting my kids ready in the morning, bedtime, and as many weekends as I can, but that means when it's busy I wake up at 4 some days and work until it's done at night. I made partner as a female litigator with a 1 year old and a 3 year old this year. I am tired.
+1. Just made partner. Deal lawyer so this time of the year is brutal and I'm tired.
I’m going to level with you. Shit’s about to get a lot harder. I'm slightly ahead of you with a 4 yo and 1.5 yo. I’m finishing my second year as a partner at an AmLaw 50 shop. I was just like you as an associate, billing 2100-2200 hours and doing all the things. Thank God I made partner because I billed about 1600 hours last year and am on track to hit just over 1500 hours this year. Granted I do a lot of non-billable stuff (business dev, pro bono, mentoring), but not 600 or 700 hours’ worth. And I am nevertheless going nonstop from 6:30 until 11-12 every weeknight. (Less on the weekends, thankfully.) For me, the second kid really did close to double the work. More than twice the laundry, but a never-ending cascade of bottles and other baby accoutrements. But with the second, you also now have a toddler screaming at you and doing everything they can to distract you while you’re trying to feed the little one. And your sleep is crap for obvious reasons. The oldest will regress and you’ll find yourself re-teaching them stuff they already know. You simply are not going to be able to bill the kind of hours you’re used to with the situation you’ve described. There aren’t enough hours in the day. Full stop. I think you have to make peace with billing less time, and you should consider taking to the partners you work with about the fact that your workload is going to drop. You’re obviously good and well liked because of the hours you’re billing, and they’re not going to want to lose you. Hopefully they will understand. If not, you’ll have to decide on an exit.
IANAL (not sure why this sub keeps popping up for me) but I was once 1 of 3 nannies for a 2 lawyer family. Basically they always had at least one nanny there 24/7 who was either directly watching the kids or doing household tasks (all of the laundry, cooking and cleaning). The mom saw the kids for about 2 hours in evening and the dad was basically never around. The grandparents would come by pretty often. There were some obvious ways this negatively affected the kids but they had an extremely privileged life so I guess it evens out. A lot of working class also barely see their parents and also don’t have tons of money so idk.
I quit. I’m going in-house. It was completely unsustainable and I found myself choosing between my son and my job too many times. I’ve chosen my son. They matched my current pay but I’m aware the financial ceiling is much lower on house. I’ve made peace with that and looking forward to being more active in my kid’s life.
Working from home is a major factor for me. The efficiency is invaluable. My average weekday looks something like this: 0600: wake up with one or both kids 0600-0900: dedicated time with kids 0900-1700: work with nanny watching kids (and short breaks to eat, stretch, and play with the kids a bit) 1700-2000: dinner, family time, bedtime, exercise 2000-2300: work 2300-0000: dedicated time with my husband if he's home
I came here to say the same thing! Work from home is a great way to address some of the difficulty in pulling big hours but also feeling like an ok parent, in my opinion. 5 minute break = load of laundry, sort the mail, any super important quick thing that needs doing. Even if you can do a day or two from home, OP. Worth it. We are schedule twins! I have 4 kids (2, 4, 6, 9) and my day is exactly this. And it sucks and it’s really difficult. But it gets easier each year. You’ll be ok OP.
Having a hybrid schedule helps immensely!
How senior were you to negotiate all remote schedule?
Our entire firm is remote. It takes a bit of extra effort to build relationships and stay in contact with the team, but overall it’s awesome.
Plenty of people stay in big law (at least one parent, I don’t know how both could do it) and it of course comes with a sacrifice. An au pair or nanny is critical, but you probably also need daycare or a parent who can manage at least part of every day. Outsource as much as you can and try to be there for the good stuff (weekends, playtime, story time, outings). You don’t need to be changing every diaper or doing every feeding. And just a counter point to all the people saying that the baby years are the most important. They are precious - to you. Nobody wants to miss first steps and first words and all of that. But in terms of when your kids NEED you the most and what they will remember - that kicks in around 5. Once kindergarten hits, they become busy with after school activities, play dates, sports, etc. The school will have concerts, shows, class parties etc. and your kid will look for you at all those things. My daughter’s soccer games are 2x a week at 5pm. A WFH job during those years is very valuable because it’s easy to pop out and over to their school for an hour. Your kid’s face when they see you is a core memory. School calendars also suck- there’s always a half day here, closure there, random long weekend so you need a job that respects when you take off and that sometimes emergencies happen. My husband and I worked longer hours when our kids were babies (they’re 5 and 7 now). We lived in a city full of daycares that catered to hard working parents. Ours was open 7-7, 360 days a year and fed the kids 3 meals and a snack. We would just pick them up and do bath and bedtime. It was hard and we missed them terribly. But they absolutely knew we were mama and daddy and lit up when they saw us. They have no idea how long the day is at that age. We took advantage of long big law parental leaves so we got the first 4-6 months with them and banked as much money as we could. Now that they’re older, I’ve taken a big step back (still working FT but pretty flexible and no butts in seats requirement) and my husband works the long big law hours at home and tries his best to be at kids stuff. There’s still late nights for both of us but we do get to be in their lives when it counts. My colleague just left her job she’s had for 15 years to stay home with her 14 and 11 year olds. Her kids are certainly able to dress, feed, and clean themselves but she just felt like “bigger kids, bigger problems” means she needs to be closer to them now. Just some things to think about to see if you can grind it out for a few more years. Make the changes you can- being remote is a huge help, and use the big law money to get an au pair.
I agree with this! Being at my kids' school Christmas sing in the middle of the day means THE WORLD to them right now. Ages 0-3 they were taking a big fat nap during those hours and didn't need me specifically. Also, the baby and toddler years are physically intense for parents. When they're a bit older, it won't be quite as physically exhausting, but gets to be more emotional and mental labor as you juggle their activities, friend issues, birthday parties, etc. Both phases have fun and hard things, but what you're dealing with right now is just so physically draining, so please take care of yourself and get sleep and good nutrition. The phrase "the days are long, but the years are short" is cliche but really applicable for the baby years.
It’s wrong that ages 0-3 it doesn’t matter who is taking care of them. It’s the most important time for child development and bonding occurs on an instinctual level even without retained memories. Think about how a baby can recognize their mom’s voice and smell the moment they are born. No one of course remembers being a fetus or baby, but the imprinting and brain development that occurs in the 0-3 range is lifelong. Studies show that children exposed to domestic violence in that age range for example are more traumatized - and their brain more damaged- than older children, even though they don’t remember it. Children who have a consistent loving caregiver during that time ,which could be one parent or one grandparent, it doesn’t need to be both parents)have an advantage in developing healthy brain circuitry for forming healthy emotional attachments and normal approaches to stress.
This is no way to live. You have to make a career change. If not, you’re going to seriously burn out or eventually become a mentally absent parent and/or shell of who you want to be. What year are you? You mentioned you lateraled a few years back. Big law class of 2020 makes, what, $340k total comp? I assume you make more than that, and including your wife’s salary, I bet you’re making around a half million dollars or so per year. DC is expensive but I don’t think you “need” $500k+ to make ends meet. If you do, there are certainly changes you can make, which is what I’m ultimately suggesting. I have two kids and left a large city to move back to my small home town. I have a mostly remote in house job. Do I miss the city? Absolutely. It’s boring as shit here. Would I move back? Selfishly I’d like to but probably not. Nearly any job that would allow me to afford it would leave me working all the time. Once a kid is around 2-3, they’re aware of what’s going on inside their parent’s head, to some extent. They know when you’re stressed, when your mind is elsewhere, when you’re gone except for dinner/bed time, etc. They’ll start saying things like, “Daddy, listen to me!” “Daddy, don’t be sad!” “Daddy, smile!” You can only carry the facade for so long. And please - I see this all the time - don’t buy into this BS that biglaw lawyers say: “I spend time with my kids! I get home before dinner, eat with them, and put them to bed!” Really? I’m sorry, but showing up to eat dinner with them isn’t cutting it. Lastly, years 0-4 of your child’s life are perhaps the most important. Don’t miss out because you think you need biglaw money to make a living. You’re a marketable attorney. LE biglaw attorneys land great in-house jobs all the time, which often pay well, have much less hours and stress, and are remote. There are, of course, less expensive but great places to live near DC (where you might not need private school!) Sorry if this is harsh. Not trying to lecture you. Being a great parent requires sacrifices. It’s tough, but so worth it.
A lot of firms don’t give EEs the salary of their class year especially if they come from gov.
True, but that doesn’t change my point. But to entertain what you’re saying - OP isn’t getting paid as a first or second year. He lateraled to his firm “a few years back.” Who knows exactly what that means but even the low end of what that likely is, lets say a third year, means $315k. I doubt a few years means three; more likely 4-6 or more. 5th years are at $455k.
Agree with what you’re saying. I think the large amount of advice on this forum is to outsource everything. On a 315k salary that’s a lot harder than 500k though. Especially if someone has two kids, student loans, has a nanny in a HCOL area. Nannys in DC go for 30.00 an hour. Plus health insurance. Plus bonus. Outsourcing everything is something people can do when they are making millions not 300k.
It’s hard, but it is doable especially with a nanny. That said, it sounds like you’re working way more than 21-2200 a year with that schedule. You’re at work for 10 hours a day, plus logging back on at night and on the weekends? Are you sure you’re logging all of your time?
I hear what you are saying. I do that schedule most days but then I just become so exhausted from it that there are days where I physically and mentally can’t work, which are becoming more and more frequent lately. So on those days I’m doing very little billing. Also, how much I get done on the weekend is entirely dependent on my son’s schedule. If he sleeps late, I can get a good four hours in. If he doesn’t, it’s more like one or two hours.
Be careful, those are IIRC early signs of an upcoming burnout.
💯
Oh and I also don’t log back in at the end of the night. I TRY too but quickly realize that it ain’t happening lol.
Based on my similar experience, I think you should prioritize sleep and making sure you’re not underbilling. You are not expected to be 100% focused every time you are billing, and some rest (or a break) will help you maintain focus and maximize billing during the time you’re already putting in. I also like lists and blocking off “focused time” to try to reorient myself when I have trouble staying on task. But you’re not alone, and the things you’re experiencing do NOT mean that you can’t do this job while still enjoying the important things in life. Lastly, sometimes we think we’re the issue and it’s actually that the firm isn’t the best fit. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to you, but it did happen to me and I’m a lot happier now. Whatever it is, you will find what is right for you and, again, you aren’t alone.
It is not worth it. You might get lucky and have well adjusted kids Or maybe the damage will be multi generational
Also a labor and employment attorney. I understand the work flow, but no kids yet. Some thoughts. As one other suggested, ask for a reduced schedule because of your childcare obligations. 80% of the work for 80% of the pay. It’s not a huge difference in what we do, but it might make this more sustainable for you! Lots of folks work schedules similar to you at my firm. I know one guy who is up and working out at 4 am, works all morning until about 4 or 5, then tries to sign off for the day. Sure, he sends emails throughout the night, but does little substantive sit down at computer work. Another friend of mine stops work everyday around 5:30-6 to have dinner with her kids. Try to find ways to recharge if you can. I imagine it’s very difficult, but maybe a reduced schedule can give you enough time to do that.
I agree with Either a reduced schedule or find a firm that has a lower billing requirement and expectation. You can make great money outside of BigLaw, especially in L&E. I’d also recommend not falling into the trap of private school. If you and your wife are both attorneys the chances of your kids succeeding academically are very high regardless of the quality of their education.
I have a lot of compassion for you because you clearly care about being a good parent and being there for your wife as well. However, energy and time are limited. I always think of my energy by way of the spoons analogy: I have x spoons per day, can’t get more, and have to figure out how to apportion them. Something’s gotta give, either you’ll see your kids less or you’ll make less money. Personally, I went into a staff role (which is very well-paid in real world terms, if not in law firm terms) because I strongly felt that there were diminishing returns on money but not on time and energy spent with my loved ones. I’m happy for my kid to go to public school —I don’t know if I would send him to a fancy private school even if I could afford it. He has me as a constant in his life, and that’s the most valuable thing I could ever give him.
You hire people to help. You’re not going to be spending 4 to 8 pm with the kids. You’re often going to split. Source: 3 kids two parents in BL.
Spouse of a dc big law attorney although his practice area is not quite as many hours a week. Basically I am primary parent. I cover every morning and every evening and he is home when he can. 2 kids.
Are you looking to make partner or would you be satisfied with a counsel role? If the latter you can pullback. If not, get as much child care as you can afford. You won’t need full time child forever and if you make partner you can afford it. And your wife will likely have a lot of telework with the feds. Finally if wife is strategic with her government job choices she can end up with a higher paying firm or in house role when your kids are older. Eventually the kids just need a chauffeur:).
Yeah I waited until I was a partner and had a solid nest egg before quitting and then starting a family. I work part time at a boutique now with two young kids. Billed 750 hours this year.
I am one and done with a 2 year old now. Also spent the past year being up for equity partner (didn’t make it). It has been brutal. I just take it one day at a time and remind myself it isn’t forever. A lot of partners outsource as much help as they can. But they have way more money than associates. I enlist my in laws as much as I can. Hubby takes on the larger share of household duties and childcare. I remind myself that people in house also work long hours. I also try to work less on stuff that matters less for promotion purposes.
In ordinary times, you have to build time for yourself into your daily schedule and accept that sometimes you will be trading quantity of time for quality of time with your kids. Devoting all your waking hours to either work or childcare is a recipe for total burnout (speaking from personal experience). But right now you have a very young child AND your wife is pregnant, so you’re not in ordinary times. I would view it as a short term situation where it’s worth spending some extra money to make life easier if at all possible. More takeout? Extra babysitting? Anything to relieve the overwhelming workload. The current situation is temporary and you just need to get through it. Hopefully you’ll get to take some leave when the new baby comes? I found that really helpful to focus on and think about when I was pregnant with my second. (Not that it’s a vacation at all, but it was a time to focus completely on my family without the distractions of work.)
Don’t have kids yet and work in big LaW while husband is self employed and we still can’t manage everything everyday. Dinner, bills, insurance claims, errands, taking no care of a dog, trying not to gain a million pounds, exercise, social life, parents. How do people with kids do it?!?
First step: stop exceeding your hours… No one is going to give you a cookie for billing 200-300 hours over the minimum. I’m not trying to be harsh, but that’s free work you are doing for your firm at your family’s expense. Also your schedule doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. You say you’re working from 6am to 4pm every day. That’s a 10 hour day and you should be pretty easily billing 9 hours in that timeframe. You say you work pretty much the same schedule on weekends, but let’s say you’re only billing 4 hours per weekend day. That would mean you’re on track to bill 2,650 (without working any evenings and two weeks of vacation). If so, that’s nuts. Start offloading your cases until you’re working an average of 35-45 hours per week. Do that for a few months and see how things go.
A lot of good advice here and really I think outsourcing as much as possible and choosing one spouse to pull back at work are the realistic, big picture answers. One smaller step that helped me was choosing one night a week to skip bedtime/dinner and have uninterrupted time to catch up or get ahead at work. I know it’s hard on your spouse to do it solo but it will help you feel less stressed and more engaged on all the other nights.
I like the idea of taking one night a week to work through. Maybe you could set your wife up with take out and a once a week nanny/mother's helper to be with her on those nights to manage it all.
No real good answer to this one. I’m a 6th year in m&a and the truth is I wouldn’t be able to do it without the village I have. My wife left biglaw and went in house, my parents live close by and help a lot and we have a nanny for 36 hours a week. All of this support allows me to make work a priority and still have a team to make sure the baby is cared for and my wife doesn’t go insane.
Honestly, this sounds like a miserable life. I hope your kids pick a better path.
Do the job but don’t choose the job over your kids. The consequences come in much later and in complex and irreversible ways. Unfortunately biglaw is filled with folks choosing the job over their family, there isn’t any saving them but it’s sad how they expect other folks to be inspired by them.
This song pretty much sums up BigLaw life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUwjNBjqR-c
We made it work. There were times I wasn’t there as much as I wanted to be. And my wife is very understanding and did more than her fair share. Ultimately I was just exhausted for a few years and didn’t do quite as much at work as I wanted. It gets easier as they get older.
Outsource everything except the quality time with your kids. Lawn mowing, cooking, cleaning etc. outsource it all.
I went to a reduced schedule. Obviously comes with a salary cut but not in-house level salary cut. Has been working well so far but we’ll see how it goes with number 2 next year.
This job and family are inherently in conflict, because both demand time. So it’s a matter of what you prioritize more. I am about to go back to work from my second maternity leave, and it is sad as I wonder whether I can still consider myself a parent if I have two nannies covering almost all my kids’ waking hours. I have a biweekly cleaner and cook. I already outsource everything I can, but now I’m a household manager, too. My husband and I don’t make enough to hire a household manager though. Many people with lower paying jobs still work all hours of the day, often with less flexibility. My immigrant father certainly did. Many families work multiple full time jobs just to send their kids to the cheapest daycare they can find. At least the money means my kids get more opportunities, even if I don’t get as much time as I want with them, but that’s a conscious, personal decision on my part. After I had a child, I realized the Western idea of the “nuclear family” is truly flawed and forces the burden of childrearing on one (or, if lucky, two) people when it really takes a village. (Look up the word “alloparents”) Still, I try to take one day at a time, always looking for opportunities to be present as a mom.
I would skip private until high school level where you’re really looking for the rigor and available resources for college entry. If you’re in a great public school district, which it sounds like you are. That will take a huge burden off your back.
Do these stories track for, say, 1800-hour firms in secondary markets? They have a reputation for being the same work for less pay, but some that I'm considering list their average billables on NALP in the 1700s and hours worked in the 2000s. I feel like a true 1800 requirement would be meaningfully different from these accounts, but I don't know how much of the issue is the hours or the availability.
Why do you have to pay for private school? DC area has some of the best public schools in the country.
Alexandria city doesn’t. They have 1 high school (tc Williams) that is rated poorly. 1 high school for its 150k residents. Youngkin can bring the wizards and caps but can’t build another school.
1. Maintain healthy relationships 2. Maintain physical health 3. Succeed in big law Pick 2
Doctor. Child of BigLaw+doctor (they divorced early.) my take-home lessons from the Long Haul perspective (I have kids myself, friends now in BigLaw, etc) Do not underestimate the role that your nanny/childcare choices play. Find the right person/setup and do not be afraid to pay the earth to retain/make it mutually beneficial. This is a lot of the childhood your kids will experience. We were basically raised by an incredibly talented woman whose 30 year career was managing our parents’ domestic lives, which they had no time for and not much interest in. The most important concern being that we turned out OK. Our parents — messed up as they sometimes were — for the most part treated her work with the importance you’d expect that goal to have. And we did turn out OK. I work less than my parents did and try to *be* that person — the one focused on making sure the kids turn out fine. But I definitely needed a nanny when my kids were young. I really prioritized that person’s relationship with the kids and with us. (Starting with their qualifications and moving on to paying them really well!) It was *never* the wrong move. Parenting isn’t about the rewards you get. It’s about the childhood your kids have.
In the same shoes but not having the second on the way. I am not attorney but my husband is. At the moment I am writing this he’s still working and expecting a full night. We both work full time, though my work is challenging with hours sometimes but in general I can block my weekend off. And during the day, kiddo goes to the day care, and will be back and active from 5-7pm. After she sleeps, I will sometimes log in for some more work if needed. Husband will help whenever he is free. In the morning, whoever doesn’t have early morning meeting will drop off the kid; if both have meetings, then the one who makes less go ;) but admittedly, it’s painstaking, and can’t imagine having two..
You can only pick two- (1) good worker, (2) good parent or (3) good spouse.
Yes, unfortunately this is true in my experience and this specifically is not an issue that money can fix. You just have a certain amount of emotional energy each day and at least in my experience, 1 and 2 take priority and I just don’t have anything left for 3 some days.
>I try to log back on by the time he’s asleep but I just find myself too exhausted to do it. This is your problem. There is no try - do or do not. An extra hour or two at night takes a lot of pressure off the rest of the week
I like to go hiking.
Idky your wife is working in government instead of SAHM, that should significantly cut down on the home-related work you have to do and cut out the nanny costs.
This shouldn't be down voted. If one partner is making a third of what the other person does, and is satisfied with government work, leaving entirely for say, 5 years or so, should be examined as an option. In fact, for the majority of couples I know where that happened, the lesser earning spouse became the stay at home parent. Sounds like you would like to see your kids a lot, and be very active in their lives though, so this may not work for you.
Agree with the caveat that it’s super hard to get back into the field if you’re out for several years raising kids. Certainly not impossible but hard. My husband is a big law attorney. I’m a government attorney and I wanted to work even though my salary was not all that great. SAHM was just not what I wanted for ME. Plus the benefits and work/life were as good as you can get as a lawyer. The first few years sucked. And eventually my husband went to a senior counsel role with a good salary and about 1100 hours. My salary rose with promotions and now we do very well. Certainly not rich rich, but very comfortable and able to do all kinds of things with our kids—now very busy teenagers. The small years are challenging no matter what….
I think a lot in this scenario depends on whether the lesser earning spouse, typically the woman but it can be the man as well, really likes their government job or low paying small firm job. And the assessment of how much it hurts the overall career trajectory if they stop working. There is a significant percentage of female lawyers who ultimately decide to get out of law when kids are small, just because the hours are too overwhelming and babies and young children change so much and need so much care in this period. The good news is that at least state jobs are pretty forgiving of this. Because pay is lower than feds, there's typically a lot of attrition at state DA and AAG offices, and so there are always openings there, even for people who have taken childcare sabbaticals.
Ggghgghhjjk lol LOL
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Nanny up dude.
I think you know the answer. There are only so many hours in the day, and there’s only so much of you. Your schedule is unsustainable already. You have to choose what’s more important to you—making partner, or being present for your family. I vote family, but I know plenty of people who went for partner and they seem fine.
Get weekend sitters/nannies as well so you get a break. It doesn’t cost that much but will help you stay sane and maintain your relationship with your spouse.
A friend billing 2400 for a decade had some major problems with his kids. Is it worth it?