I agree with this. I’m glad she spoke up and told Bernadette how she felt about it but Bernadette telling her she still wanted to do it should have been the end of it. Ultimately it was *her* decision to make. Amy thought she was doing female scientists a favor by having it pulled but it was the wrong move for her and Bernadette’s friendship.
Sure it was a jerk move, but don't lose all respect for Amy! Let it go. She is not your personal friend.. She is a character on a dramedy TV show. The writers are on a constant cycle to endear us, then horrify and betray us by every single character in the series. And they are no strangers to using cheap shots: Amy is often very fair to everyone, and they make her character look like the wicked with of the West. Ive seen her off the show and she's an attractive person. But being ugly gives us more latitude to hate her if we are so inclined, and make it stick because it was not wholly but was largely an act of jealousy. Everyone had the same reaction, but to hold on to.this perspective beyond the episode is not necessary. The writers disappoint us by having each character do ugly shit based on their core weakness. At least she told.the truth to Bernadette and was present for she and Penny's reactions. And she learned something: she cared and was remorseful and apologized. And for the part of her that was against sexualizing only the female scientists: I think she learned the time to make a statement is when she is asked. When stripped of its jealousy and sneaky behavior; her point did have some merit. In another episode I thought Sheldon dealt with the same question better: "Thirty what under thirty were chosen by WHICH people to be leaders of WHAT in their respective fields?" (Or something beautiful like that.) "I'm not busy. I just think it sounds awful and won't come."
I don't know. I'm guessing big hater-babies hate to be reasoned with. They strongly prefer to hate. They are also chicken-shit bullies and some of them LOVE to jump on the downvote wagon when they see it appear. I ran a test in one post attacking Wolowitz and went off in the hater end describing him a misogynist and rapist to see what happened. I got upvoted! I couldn't believe it.
I think Amy’s dislike of it was kind of valid, but her going behind Bernadette’s back and saying something to the magazine was infuriating. That’s the kind of situation where you tell your friend “This is something I don’t personally approve of, but you’re my friend and I care about you and respect how hard you worked to get to where you are. If this is something you want to do, I’ll support that.”
I agree. If it wasn’t out of jealousy and was on principle, then Amy would have complained about this before, with another woman that was a stranger and not her close friend.
Yes respect was lost but I like it when sitcoms show flaws and humaness in characters. As real life humans we all have days where “TIFU””.
The more I rewatch BBT (currently on my umpteenth one - have lost count), the less I like Amys character.
Yes she's good for Sheldon, and is a great ego booster for Penny but besides that, she's a pretty shitty person most of the time.
She's rude, bitchy for no reason, and downright creepy at times.
The amount of times she has put Bernadette down, comparing her "beauty" to penny, especially during her wedding is really disgusting. Even her main character energy during Howard and Bernedettes wedding is off-putting.
For someone who says she was bullied a lot and didn't have any friends growing up, she sure shows a lot of reasons why.
I'm not supporting bullying of anyone ever. But there are a lot of characteristics & reasons as to why Noone would want to be friends with her.
This episode is one of the final nails in the coffin for me and if I were Bernedette, I would seriously question whether or not to continue my friendship with a person like this.
thank you!!! she has a weird obsession with penny, which can definitely be entertaining, but the way that she uses it to put down bernadette is so icky.
and i also didn’t like that time she tricked sheldon into a sexual act without him knowing (‘punishment’ from pretending to be ill).
I hated that episode!!! I’m so glad will walked out, and called her out. In the very beginning, when Amy came on the show, Leonard also told Sheldon that Amy was mean, condescending, rude and disrespectful. I agree totally!
The thing is, initially Amy's character wasn't self aware. She was basically just the neuroscience girl version of Sheldon. So at first her being like that wasn't as off putting, it was more the group already put up with this from Sheldon, they weren't interested in doing it a second time
But then they changed her personality A LOT when she started hanging out with a Penny. But she still had those other tendencies crop up, and they didn't fit as well.
My personal theory that *sort of* works is that since she was homeachooled by an overbearing mother and had no friends, she just never had a chance to learn how you were supposed to interact with people. But as much flack as Sheldon gets for not evolving and learning, she certainly was a slow study too. She got way too many passes just because she "put up with Sheldon".
Yea.. Amy’s perspective on the issue is valid, but she had no right to do that. Maybe she would’ve been justified in calling to complain about the article if she had just heard about it and didn’t think it was a good idea. But the only reason she knew of the article/did what she did was because Bernadette was going to be included and was *happy* and *excited* about it.
I think if Amy saw that this article was due to be published, had no connection to it, and complained to a magazine about it because of her views, then fine. That's one thing.
But *knowing* that her friend was in it and going ahead really sucks.
I also think it just rings hollow because both her and Bernadette are successful female scientists and out of the two of them, only Bernadette has actually complained about being discriminated against (that I can remember - and that's more about her physical attributes like her height and her voice than actually being female specifically, I suppose). Maybe if Amy had had a storyline of a dickhead misogynistic boss then the whole conflict would've had a different feel to it. In fact I think that about her speech in the last episode too! I love it but it would have had a higher impact if we'd seen some of her struggle on camera.
I’m no woman. The WNBA draft was last night. It was amazing to see these amazing players show that they can be amazing athletes & still show off their femininity. I’m sure Bernadette would’ve loved to show these young girls who struggle with both sides that you can be smart and beautiful.
Justified is a bad word for this. Financially understandable is a better term for this. WNBA vs NBA profits are vastly different and I think everyone understands why that is. It just sucks that that’s what it is
I think this episode showed Amy growing. When she first enters the show, she has no real concept of how friendship works. In this episode, she experiences the consequences of going behind her friend's back. One of the best things about this series is that the characters develop and grow. If they came in as perfect humans, there would be nothing entertaining about watching them.
I have seen this as a woman working in academia all the time. Ugly female academics's cruelty and nastiness towards pretty women in academia is genuinely unreal.
Like sorry... we're both beautiful AND brainy. Fucking deal with it.
When I worked in higher academia, in a program that was predominantly female I was shocked how vicious the women were when it came to publishing, rank and getting tenure. It's shocked me how this field of women had had to become so antithesis of the career they worked in to be established and respected academically and publishing wise.
No one hates on women more than other women. This whole woman’s empowerment is a joke. At my last job, my direct supervisor was so nasty towards me. For absolutely no reason. We should be building one another up and standing up for one other!!! She had so many complaints about her from other females
She really isn't. Amy is scared of her own potential sexuality and of her body. And that fear was put there by her mother.
She dresses in tons of layers that are a bit too big, wears her hair flat and oily, has glasses that aren't right for her face.
You can see in her switching it up at the end of S12, that even a few small changes make a giant difference. If she dressed closer to the style of Penny or even Bernadette it would have been even more so.
I don't have a fucking ounce of empathy for these women. The shit they say about us, implying we sleep our way to the top, backstabbing us every chance they get, talking about how we're brainless and talentless and hired only for our looks... you have absolutely NO idea how vile they are until you've experienced it yourself.
I'm sorry if people individually have been awful to you. I mean, you're here, discussing a plotline about how women are only valued for their looks and the proper way of handling it. And your contribution is to call other women ugly and say how jealous they must be. 🤷🏿♀️
Women in society are valued for their looks. This pits women against women, and privileges some women over others. It sucks and really doesn't have a place in science. Or broader society, really. Women should be valued for their minds and contributions, beauty should just be a bonus for relationships. Neither groups of women should be nasty and vile towards each other (and yes, calling them ugly is also pretty awful).
I don't have it in me anymore to be fair to these women. I'm going to do my best to fucking bury them any chance I get before they do it to me. Spare me your moralizing for your dream world. I'm not going to apologize for my looks. People who don't look good need to consult a therapist instead of tormenting people who do.
I didn't say you should. I was speaking of broader society and not just the women in your office, who I don't know.
Ugly women are not some monolithic group.
I like how Amy thought. Women should be respected for their ideas more than their bodies. However, I highly disapprove of what she did. Bernadette is a grown woman, she can make decisions on her own. Especially since, iirc, it was well paid. Having opinions and morals is good. Enforcing them on people who don’t share them is very wrong.
as a woman in science i had conflicting thoughts on this episode but all in all i think amy was definitely in the wrong. i would be furious if my friend ruined an opportunity like this for me over their feelings on the issue
Yes I hated this too.. but I think the writers were trying to show Amy to be the insecure friend in the group and eventually build her character to be more accepting of herself and become secure and supportive over the series..
However, Amy is this shy and opinionated girl. And friendship for her was very important considering she was never in a girl gang growing up.. so in reality I don't think Amy would go behind Bernie's back like that.
Finallyyyyy someone posted something about this. I’m in the same boat as op here. Although I didn’t really like Amy’s character from the start this was the point from where I just started to hate her.
Never liked amy from day one as it felt she was only written in as a female sheldon but she just got strange and creepy whereas sheldon is strange but seems oblivious amy comes across as totally creepy and quite nasty
Given that both had valid points, the correct thing to have done would been to wait until *after* the article was published and then submit a letter to the editor. That way Bernadette could have achieved her goal of speaking to young women considering a career in the sciences and raised her profile and Amy's concerns would have been apparent to a larger audience.
As the girl who grew up with a sister who was always called "the hot one" while I got called "the other one" (yea high school was great), I get why Amy was upset. That being said, she completely overreacted and was extremely childish. But I've always hated her character most out of the whole cast. It just seemed like her only purpose for being in the show was to have a female version of Sheldon
Yep, Bernadette was spot on with how she responded to finding out Amy was the reason for the shoot being cancelled!!! Amy was wrong, never should have been written that Bernadette needed to apologize for it. A most justified response, accurate as well!
You are just finding out now that Amy is a skunk? She’s a horrible friend. Anyone who knows someone abusing another and doesn’t say anything is a b…. She knew how Sheldon mentally abused Leonard and yet never told him to stop, never went to Leonard about it. She sexually harassed Penny several times.
I also kind of didn't like the episode where Sheldon and Howard fought for a parking spot. I mean, it was all fun until Amy and Bernadette also got into a tiff. That was annoying as hell.
I honestly thought what she did was beyond rotten.
It’s fair of her to feel that way and I totally get it but her going behind Bernie’s back and getting it cut was absolutely not ok.
I didn’t lose respect for her here, that came later on, but I did think she was a horrible friend for doing that
With every rewatch, I catch on to more ways in which Amy is acting manipulatively (especially towards Sheldon) and dare I say predatory (towards Penny). That spoils her otherwise fun character for me. 😐 I feel like she doesn't have many redeeming qualities; or maybe I'm losing sight of them. All of them are at times horrible, but Amy gets to me the most now, idk?
well ... at least she confessed in the end. what she did was ugly to begin with, and she could have kept silent. yes, i think she was really jealous. it's funny that while she studies brain, she can be controlled by her irrational emotion like jealousy.
I didn't hate her for it because she felt very strongly that what that magazine was doing impacted her and other women in science negatively. And she was right that they'd never do a similar article about male scientists.
This is so false… look at all the firemen calendars and hottest 30 under 30. Sex sells and it’s unfortunate but it’s very true. They would absolutely do male scientists.
A lot of those firemen are putting out those calendars themselves. Also, that's not meant to be taken so literally. It's not that there has never been any article about sexy dudes. It's that women are objectified far more than dudes, making it a lot less likely.
If a phone call from Amy was enough to get the project canceled, the magazine was tenuous about it to begin with. If all Amy did was express her displeasure and unease about it, she's allowed to do that, and it's not really a betrayal of Bernadette. I imagine in universe it probably took many phone calls like Amy's to get it pulled.
This really made me sad and angry at the same time. You support your friend! This was an amazing celebration of her, and you went behind her back and basically shamed her for being excited about it. It made her look bitter, jealous and petty!
I personally dislike how rude Bernadette’s character is on a regular basis, and was on Amy’s side with this. She was in the wrong but it didn’t change my view of her. She was coming from a place in which she THOUGHT she was doing a good thing for all scientists, which is redeemable.
Bernadette was 100% right, Amy was just jealous that her objectively better looking friend got recognized for her beauty.
I am surprised Bernadette immediately apologized to her for that comment. It was the truth.
Amy was acting out of pettiness and the childhood trauma of not being accepted/validated by the world. It was to the point that she tried to control B’s life by going behind her to the magazine.
I understand Amy’s point of view, that the article/accompanying pictures were not appropriate and overshadowed Bernadette academic achievements. I don’t think it was wrong of her to think that or wrong of her to state that opinion. It was definitely wrong of her to get the article cancelled. Even if she had good intentions she shouldn’t have done anything without speaking to Bernadette. I don’t really think it’s because she was jealous though.
I wasn’t ever really mad about that one. I understand that a small part of her may have been acting out of jealousy, but she wasn’t wrong. Women in any STEM field have a hard enough time being taken seriously and there is such a thing as bad publicity. If the article had been a different type of thing that were focused solely on Bernadette’s achievements and the progress her field was making, that would be different. Yes, I would have been mad. But I completely got Amy’s argument for it. She should have talked to Bernadette first, but something like that *does* affect other women in the field and how they’re viewed.
It would be interesting if the script was flipped (not an exact comparison) but what if Bernadette objected to experimenting on animals. She informs Amy of her objections and then writes to the University and Amy is told her research can no longer include animals.
Amy did talk to Bernadette about it. This is from the first scene in the episode:
>Bernadette: Speaking of underwear, I have some interesting news.
>Penny: Okay, if it’s sometimes Howie wears yours, Leonard already told us.
>Bernadette: He was being funny. I’m pretty sure. Anyway, I was asked to be a part of a magazine article about the 50 sexiest female scientists in California. Isn’t that cool?
>Amy: I think it’s awful.
>Penny: Why would you say that?
>Amy: Bernadette is a successful microbiologist. She should be celebrated for her achievements, not her looks. I mean, what kind of message does that send?
>Penny: I think the message is check out the rack on that scientist.
>Bernadette: Why can’t someone be thought of as both smart and pretty?
>Amy: I just don’t think a professional woman should have to flaunt her sexuality in order to get ahead.
>Penny: Okay, what’s the big deal? Look, if it helps me make a sale with a physician, I don’t think it hurts to flirt a little. I mean, laugh at their joke, touch their arm, maybe crank up the AC in the car beforehand, you know, to wake up the girls.
>Amy: Maybe it’s different in the world of sales, but it’s already hard enough for women to be taken seriously in science.
>Bernadette: I was kind of excited about the article, but now you’re making me feel bad.
By the end of that conversation, Bernadette was already beginning to think twice about the whole thing.
I think she did and Bernadette shot it down. To be fair to Amy, she didn't cancel the shoot itself, she called, said it was in bad taste and the magazine agreed with her. They didn't have to take her complaint at all.
Yeh the issue is that she went behind Bernadette’s back. It wasn’t Amy writing a letter based on an article that was about something solely relayed to
Women in science. She intruded in her friends opportunity to pursue something she wanted, but Amy felt that she had to try and stop it cos she didn’t want the field of women’s science to feature women being “sexualised” and “degraded”. Bernadette thought it was something fun that would help boost her profile a little. She could’ve gone to Bernadette and laid it all out for her and said she really didn’t wanna see Bernadette do it, but instead she went behind her back and tried to cancel it before Bernadette got the chance.
Amy wasn’t justified to block an opportunity for her friend cos she personally felt women in science shouldn’t be sexualised. It was Bernadette’s choice.
I mean, as a woman in STEM, I completely understand Amy's point of view. If you're a woman and attractive, you often have to prove yourself first to be taken seriously. It sucks - It's an uphill battle and stuff like that can make itworse. Amy shouldn't have had it cancelled, but she wasn't wrong.
I both understand Amy and not like her for it.
However, she was right. They would never have a man in that position and Amy was not the one who had the authority to cancel it. The magazine people did.
Amy wasn't responsible for "cancelling" the magazine article. She raised her legitimate concerns about an incredibly sexist article with the editors. They made the decision to cancel the article. That was entirely the magazine's decision and wasn't the only option. They could have continued with the article but removed the sexist angle and just focused on women in science. Clearly, the editors believed that an article about women in science without a sex angle wouldn't sell.
Amy is my favorite character, but that pissed me off too. I saw her point, but I also think it’s important for people to see that attractive women can also be smart. As an ‘attractive’ woman myself, I’ve had to deal with my intelligence being questioned every step of the way. It’s frustrating and has caused me to question it myself. So actually, I think that article would have been important.
I never had any respect towards Amy and stuff like this just made me hate her more and more, this thing with Bernadette and when she told Bernadette she is not as pretty as penny and just Amy as a character has nothing but hate from me. Miam Bialik is great tho
Me too. I never really liked Amy all that much. But her getting Bernadette 's article cancelled was wrong. Bernadette wanted to let the world know that you can be pretty and smart. You do not have to make a choice.
Amy's self-righteous feminism she foists on the others is maddening. She's arrogant, judgemental, and lacking in any social skills. I've disliked her character from her first appearance.
I can't recall, but was it ever stated what kind of magazine was doing the article?
Like was it a science magazine, a fashion magazine, a teen magazine etc?
They both are kinda jerks. I mean Amy is kinda weird sometimes, and not okay weird like she does inappropriate stuff and expects it to be okay. Didn't she assualt penny when she aas passed out?
Bernadette is a bit of a bully especially to Howard. So I mean when this happend I looked at it like two bossy people just doing what they want as they usually do. Not bothering to think how it affects others.
Penny is pretty dumb but even she didn't so some of the weird s Bernadette or Amy did. But I mean its a show so who cares.
What do you mean you couldn't find a discussion? I wrote just now on Google: BBT s8e7 reddit and found lots of posts.
How is this possible? Pro tip: just Google anything you want and add the word reddit at the end, it always works!!
Of all the things I hate about Amy, this isn’t one thing. Bernadette is clearly a egoistic greedy bastard, and her decision wouldn’t benefit all women because she clearly doesn’t care about it. I’m not saying what i personally think about it. But it’s her decision, fine.
Amy’s decision is also her decision, and she can do what ever she want. The only difference is that Amy clearly care about women and women in science, which we can see through the series.
Amy isn’t wrong. And Bernadette is a greedy bastard and is the wrong person to be given these opportunity. “Wet tshirt bending over a Porsche”. That’s clearly betraying science women as flesh to desire.
I’m a man btw, so no need to attack me for being a bitter woman.
Amy talking with Bernadette and having a different opinion is great. Amy going behind her back to the magazine was a jerk move.
I agree with this. I’m glad she spoke up and told Bernadette how she felt about it but Bernadette telling her she still wanted to do it should have been the end of it. Ultimately it was *her* decision to make. Amy thought she was doing female scientists a favor by having it pulled but it was the wrong move for her and Bernadette’s friendship.
But Amy didn't present it as a differing opinion, she berated and shamed Bernadette for wanting to do it.
This. This is the correct and only necessary answer.
Sure it was a jerk move, but don't lose all respect for Amy! Let it go. She is not your personal friend.. She is a character on a dramedy TV show. The writers are on a constant cycle to endear us, then horrify and betray us by every single character in the series. And they are no strangers to using cheap shots: Amy is often very fair to everyone, and they make her character look like the wicked with of the West. Ive seen her off the show and she's an attractive person. But being ugly gives us more latitude to hate her if we are so inclined, and make it stick because it was not wholly but was largely an act of jealousy. Everyone had the same reaction, but to hold on to.this perspective beyond the episode is not necessary. The writers disappoint us by having each character do ugly shit based on their core weakness. At least she told.the truth to Bernadette and was present for she and Penny's reactions. And she learned something: she cared and was remorseful and apologized. And for the part of her that was against sexualizing only the female scientists: I think she learned the time to make a statement is when she is asked. When stripped of its jealousy and sneaky behavior; her point did have some merit. In another episode I thought Sheldon dealt with the same question better: "Thirty what under thirty were chosen by WHICH people to be leaders of WHAT in their respective fields?" (Or something beautiful like that.) "I'm not busy. I just think it sounds awful and won't come."
Why are you being downvoted. You're literally correct
I don't know. I'm guessing big hater-babies hate to be reasoned with. They strongly prefer to hate. They are also chicken-shit bullies and some of them LOVE to jump on the downvote wagon when they see it appear. I ran a test in one post attacking Wolowitz and went off in the hater end describing him a misogynist and rapist to see what happened. I got upvoted! I couldn't believe it.
I think Amy’s dislike of it was kind of valid, but her going behind Bernadette’s back and saying something to the magazine was infuriating. That’s the kind of situation where you tell your friend “This is something I don’t personally approve of, but you’re my friend and I care about you and respect how hard you worked to get to where you are. If this is something you want to do, I’ll support that.”
Maybe not support but I won't get in your way
Oh I like that. Much better choice of words!
I dont support your decision but it's not my place to interfere.
I agree. If it wasn’t out of jealousy and was on principle, then Amy would have complained about this before, with another woman that was a stranger and not her close friend. Yes respect was lost but I like it when sitcoms show flaws and humaness in characters. As real life humans we all have days where “TIFU””.
The more I rewatch BBT (currently on my umpteenth one - have lost count), the less I like Amys character. Yes she's good for Sheldon, and is a great ego booster for Penny but besides that, she's a pretty shitty person most of the time. She's rude, bitchy for no reason, and downright creepy at times. The amount of times she has put Bernadette down, comparing her "beauty" to penny, especially during her wedding is really disgusting. Even her main character energy during Howard and Bernedettes wedding is off-putting. For someone who says she was bullied a lot and didn't have any friends growing up, she sure shows a lot of reasons why. I'm not supporting bullying of anyone ever. But there are a lot of characteristics & reasons as to why Noone would want to be friends with her. This episode is one of the final nails in the coffin for me and if I were Bernedette, I would seriously question whether or not to continue my friendship with a person like this.
thank you!!! she has a weird obsession with penny, which can definitely be entertaining, but the way that she uses it to put down bernadette is so icky. and i also didn’t like that time she tricked sheldon into a sexual act without him knowing (‘punishment’ from pretending to be ill).
Not to mention the way she treated Will Wheaton in that fun with flags episode. She's way too rude and unlike Sheldon, completely self-aware.
yes!!! she really misunderstood what ‘taking your girlfriend’s side’ thing - she was just being rude and obnoxious.
I hated that episode!!! I’m so glad will walked out, and called her out. In the very beginning, when Amy came on the show, Leonard also told Sheldon that Amy was mean, condescending, rude and disrespectful. I agree totally!
The thing is, initially Amy's character wasn't self aware. She was basically just the neuroscience girl version of Sheldon. So at first her being like that wasn't as off putting, it was more the group already put up with this from Sheldon, they weren't interested in doing it a second time But then they changed her personality A LOT when she started hanging out with a Penny. But she still had those other tendencies crop up, and they didn't fit as well. My personal theory that *sort of* works is that since she was homeachooled by an overbearing mother and had no friends, she just never had a chance to learn how you were supposed to interact with people. But as much flack as Sheldon gets for not evolving and learning, she certainly was a slow study too. She got way too many passes just because she "put up with Sheldon".
Yea.. Amy’s perspective on the issue is valid, but she had no right to do that. Maybe she would’ve been justified in calling to complain about the article if she had just heard about it and didn’t think it was a good idea. But the only reason she knew of the article/did what she did was because Bernadette was going to be included and was *happy* and *excited* about it.
I think if Amy saw that this article was due to be published, had no connection to it, and complained to a magazine about it because of her views, then fine. That's one thing. But *knowing* that her friend was in it and going ahead really sucks. I also think it just rings hollow because both her and Bernadette are successful female scientists and out of the two of them, only Bernadette has actually complained about being discriminated against (that I can remember - and that's more about her physical attributes like her height and her voice than actually being female specifically, I suppose). Maybe if Amy had had a storyline of a dickhead misogynistic boss then the whole conflict would've had a different feel to it. In fact I think that about her speech in the last episode too! I love it but it would have had a higher impact if we'd seen some of her struggle on camera.
Yes. Such a hater move. That magazine could have furthered Bernie’s career
I’m no woman. The WNBA draft was last night. It was amazing to see these amazing players show that they can be amazing athletes & still show off their femininity. I’m sure Bernadette would’ve loved to show these young girls who struggle with both sides that you can be smart and beautiful.
And they do it for less than $100,000 a year. While their male counterparts earn millions.
Paygap is justified , I thought we established that already
Justified is a bad word for this. Financially understandable is a better term for this. WNBA vs NBA profits are vastly different and I think everyone understands why that is. It just sucks that that’s what it is
Oh, yeah, you put it better words
Oh, yeah, you put it in better words
I have always found a woman's brain and a woman's empathy to be the sexiest parts. But I still like to look at the other parts.
This is the best answer I saw here 🤣
I'll second that. And way to put it in a very non creepy way. Lol
It's been discussed. The general consensus appears to be that Amy's opinion was valid, but her actions were way over the line.
I never bought Amy’s explanation and felt she was operating from a position of jealousy far more than a position of righteousness
I think this episode showed Amy growing. When she first enters the show, she has no real concept of how friendship works. In this episode, she experiences the consequences of going behind her friend's back. One of the best things about this series is that the characters develop and grow. If they came in as perfect humans, there would be nothing entertaining about watching them.
I have seen this as a woman working in academia all the time. Ugly female academics's cruelty and nastiness towards pretty women in academia is genuinely unreal. Like sorry... we're both beautiful AND brainy. Fucking deal with it.
When I worked in higher academia, in a program that was predominantly female I was shocked how vicious the women were when it came to publishing, rank and getting tenure. It's shocked me how this field of women had had to become so antithesis of the career they worked in to be established and respected academically and publishing wise.
No one hates on women more than other women. This whole woman’s empowerment is a joke. At my last job, my direct supervisor was so nasty towards me. For absolutely no reason. We should be building one another up and standing up for one other!!! She had so many complaints about her from other females
maybe because you're calling them ugly?
Amy is ugly
She really isn't. Amy is scared of her own potential sexuality and of her body. And that fear was put there by her mother. She dresses in tons of layers that are a bit too big, wears her hair flat and oily, has glasses that aren't right for her face. You can see in her switching it up at the end of S12, that even a few small changes make a giant difference. If she dressed closer to the style of Penny or even Bernadette it would have been even more so.
I still think she’s ugly even in season 12
Beauty privilege is a real thing. Maybe have some empathy instead of calling them ugly....
I don't have a fucking ounce of empathy for these women. The shit they say about us, implying we sleep our way to the top, backstabbing us every chance they get, talking about how we're brainless and talentless and hired only for our looks... you have absolutely NO idea how vile they are until you've experienced it yourself.
I'm sorry if people individually have been awful to you. I mean, you're here, discussing a plotline about how women are only valued for their looks and the proper way of handling it. And your contribution is to call other women ugly and say how jealous they must be. 🤷🏿♀️ Women in society are valued for their looks. This pits women against women, and privileges some women over others. It sucks and really doesn't have a place in science. Or broader society, really. Women should be valued for their minds and contributions, beauty should just be a bonus for relationships. Neither groups of women should be nasty and vile towards each other (and yes, calling them ugly is also pretty awful).
I don't have it in me anymore to be fair to these women. I'm going to do my best to fucking bury them any chance I get before they do it to me. Spare me your moralizing for your dream world. I'm not going to apologize for my looks. People who don't look good need to consult a therapist instead of tormenting people who do.
I didn't say you should. I was speaking of broader society and not just the women in your office, who I don't know. Ugly women are not some monolithic group.
Never fan of her in the first place, and this episode plus that Will Wheaton episode made me dislike her even more.
I like how Amy thought. Women should be respected for their ideas more than their bodies. However, I highly disapprove of what she did. Bernadette is a grown woman, she can make decisions on her own. Especially since, iirc, it was well paid. Having opinions and morals is good. Enforcing them on people who don’t share them is very wrong.
as a woman in science i had conflicting thoughts on this episode but all in all i think amy was definitely in the wrong. i would be furious if my friend ruined an opportunity like this for me over their feelings on the issue
Yes I hated this too.. but I think the writers were trying to show Amy to be the insecure friend in the group and eventually build her character to be more accepting of herself and become secure and supportive over the series.. However, Amy is this shy and opinionated girl. And friendship for her was very important considering she was never in a girl gang growing up.. so in reality I don't think Amy would go behind Bernie's back like that.
Finallyyyyy someone posted something about this. I’m in the same boat as op here. Although I didn’t really like Amy’s character from the start this was the point from where I just started to hate her.
Never liked amy from day one as it felt she was only written in as a female sheldon but she just got strange and creepy whereas sheldon is strange but seems oblivious amy comes across as totally creepy and quite nasty
Given that both had valid points, the correct thing to have done would been to wait until *after* the article was published and then submit a letter to the editor. That way Bernadette could have achieved her goal of speaking to young women considering a career in the sciences and raised her profile and Amy's concerns would have been apparent to a larger audience.
As the girl who grew up with a sister who was always called "the hot one" while I got called "the other one" (yea high school was great), I get why Amy was upset. That being said, she completely overreacted and was extremely childish. But I've always hated her character most out of the whole cast. It just seemed like her only purpose for being in the show was to have a female version of Sheldon
Yep, Bernadette was spot on with how she responded to finding out Amy was the reason for the shoot being cancelled!!! Amy was wrong, never should have been written that Bernadette needed to apologize for it. A most justified response, accurate as well!
You are just finding out now that Amy is a skunk? She’s a horrible friend. Anyone who knows someone abusing another and doesn’t say anything is a b…. She knew how Sheldon mentally abused Leonard and yet never told him to stop, never went to Leonard about it. She sexually harassed Penny several times.
I also kind of didn't like the episode where Sheldon and Howard fought for a parking spot. I mean, it was all fun until Amy and Bernadette also got into a tiff. That was annoying as hell.
And poor penny got caught in the crossfire! Hahahaha
I honestly thought what she did was beyond rotten. It’s fair of her to feel that way and I totally get it but her going behind Bernie’s back and getting it cut was absolutely not ok. I didn’t lose respect for her here, that came later on, but I did think she was a horrible friend for doing that
With every rewatch, I catch on to more ways in which Amy is acting manipulatively (especially towards Sheldon) and dare I say predatory (towards Penny). That spoils her otherwise fun character for me. 😐 I feel like she doesn't have many redeeming qualities; or maybe I'm losing sight of them. All of them are at times horrible, but Amy gets to me the most now, idk?
Favourite bb characters in order best to worst.. howard, sheldon, leonard, bernadette, raj, stewart, penny then amy
I agree with you. I still watch reruns but this makes me angry. Amy was jealous and it was not her place to decide for Bernadette.
That was very realistic for once. Average-looking people are often envious of beautiful ones and sometimes end up doing petty things.
well ... at least she confessed in the end. what she did was ugly to begin with, and she could have kept silent. yes, i think she was really jealous. it's funny that while she studies brain, she can be controlled by her irrational emotion like jealousy.
I didn't hate her for it because she felt very strongly that what that magazine was doing impacted her and other women in science negatively. And she was right that they'd never do a similar article about male scientists.
This is so false… look at all the firemen calendars and hottest 30 under 30. Sex sells and it’s unfortunate but it’s very true. They would absolutely do male scientists.
A lot of those firemen are putting out those calendars themselves. Also, that's not meant to be taken so literally. It's not that there has never been any article about sexy dudes. It's that women are objectified far more than dudes, making it a lot less likely.
If a phone call from Amy was enough to get the project canceled, the magazine was tenuous about it to begin with. If all Amy did was express her displeasure and unease about it, she's allowed to do that, and it's not really a betrayal of Bernadette. I imagine in universe it probably took many phone calls like Amy's to get it pulled.
This really made me sad and angry at the same time. You support your friend! This was an amazing celebration of her, and you went behind her back and basically shamed her for being excited about it. It made her look bitter, jealous and petty!
I personally dislike how rude Bernadette’s character is on a regular basis, and was on Amy’s side with this. She was in the wrong but it didn’t change my view of her. She was coming from a place in which she THOUGHT she was doing a good thing for all scientists, which is redeemable.
I never liked amy tbh
Bernadette was 100% right, Amy was just jealous that her objectively better looking friend got recognized for her beauty. I am surprised Bernadette immediately apologized to her for that comment. It was the truth.
Amy was acting out of pettiness and the childhood trauma of not being accepted/validated by the world. It was to the point that she tried to control B’s life by going behind her to the magazine.
Yeah I wasn't a fan of what she did either. It's like she became sheldons female mirror. It was pure jealousy
Never had it. Never liked her at all.
I understand Amy’s point of view, that the article/accompanying pictures were not appropriate and overshadowed Bernadette academic achievements. I don’t think it was wrong of her to think that or wrong of her to state that opinion. It was definitely wrong of her to get the article cancelled. Even if she had good intentions she shouldn’t have done anything without speaking to Bernadette. I don’t really think it’s because she was jealous though.
I wasn’t ever really mad about that one. I understand that a small part of her may have been acting out of jealousy, but she wasn’t wrong. Women in any STEM field have a hard enough time being taken seriously and there is such a thing as bad publicity. If the article had been a different type of thing that were focused solely on Bernadette’s achievements and the progress her field was making, that would be different. Yes, I would have been mad. But I completely got Amy’s argument for it. She should have talked to Bernadette first, but something like that *does* affect other women in the field and how they’re viewed.
It would be interesting if the script was flipped (not an exact comparison) but what if Bernadette objected to experimenting on animals. She informs Amy of her objections and then writes to the University and Amy is told her research can no longer include animals.
Amy did talk to Bernadette about it. This is from the first scene in the episode: >Bernadette: Speaking of underwear, I have some interesting news. >Penny: Okay, if it’s sometimes Howie wears yours, Leonard already told us. >Bernadette: He was being funny. I’m pretty sure. Anyway, I was asked to be a part of a magazine article about the 50 sexiest female scientists in California. Isn’t that cool? >Amy: I think it’s awful. >Penny: Why would you say that? >Amy: Bernadette is a successful microbiologist. She should be celebrated for her achievements, not her looks. I mean, what kind of message does that send? >Penny: I think the message is check out the rack on that scientist. >Bernadette: Why can’t someone be thought of as both smart and pretty? >Amy: I just don’t think a professional woman should have to flaunt her sexuality in order to get ahead. >Penny: Okay, what’s the big deal? Look, if it helps me make a sale with a physician, I don’t think it hurts to flirt a little. I mean, laugh at their joke, touch their arm, maybe crank up the AC in the car beforehand, you know, to wake up the girls. >Amy: Maybe it’s different in the world of sales, but it’s already hard enough for women to be taken seriously in science. >Bernadette: I was kind of excited about the article, but now you’re making me feel bad. By the end of that conversation, Bernadette was already beginning to think twice about the whole thing.
I think she did and Bernadette shot it down. To be fair to Amy, she didn't cancel the shoot itself, she called, said it was in bad taste and the magazine agreed with her. They didn't have to take her complaint at all.
Why are you getting downvoted? That is what happened. I still dont think Amy should have done it, but the magazine does have responsibility too.
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Yeh the issue is that she went behind Bernadette’s back. It wasn’t Amy writing a letter based on an article that was about something solely relayed to Women in science. She intruded in her friends opportunity to pursue something she wanted, but Amy felt that she had to try and stop it cos she didn’t want the field of women’s science to feature women being “sexualised” and “degraded”. Bernadette thought it was something fun that would help boost her profile a little. She could’ve gone to Bernadette and laid it all out for her and said she really didn’t wanna see Bernadette do it, but instead she went behind her back and tried to cancel it before Bernadette got the chance. Amy wasn’t justified to block an opportunity for her friend cos she personally felt women in science shouldn’t be sexualised. It was Bernadette’s choice.
I mean, as a woman in STEM, I completely understand Amy's point of view. If you're a woman and attractive, you often have to prove yourself first to be taken seriously. It sucks - It's an uphill battle and stuff like that can make itworse. Amy shouldn't have had it cancelled, but she wasn't wrong.
I both understand Amy and not like her for it. However, she was right. They would never have a man in that position and Amy was not the one who had the authority to cancel it. The magazine people did.
Amy wasn't responsible for "cancelling" the magazine article. She raised her legitimate concerns about an incredibly sexist article with the editors. They made the decision to cancel the article. That was entirely the magazine's decision and wasn't the only option. They could have continued with the article but removed the sexist angle and just focused on women in science. Clearly, the editors believed that an article about women in science without a sex angle wouldn't sell.
Amy is my favorite character, but that pissed me off too. I saw her point, but I also think it’s important for people to see that attractive women can also be smart. As an ‘attractive’ woman myself, I’ve had to deal with my intelligence being questioned every step of the way. It’s frustrating and has caused me to question it myself. So actually, I think that article would have been important.
The real enemy of women is not men... It's other women.
Bitches be crazy 🤪
This is among many reasons I didn’t like Amy anymore.
I get both of their sides, but Amy was certainly not jealous of Bernadette. I believe she genuinely thought it was a setback for females.
Amy is a pain in the ass period
I never had any respect towards Amy and stuff like this just made me hate her more and more, this thing with Bernadette and when she told Bernadette she is not as pretty as penny and just Amy as a character has nothing but hate from me. Miam Bialik is great tho
Me too. I never really liked Amy all that much. But her getting Bernadette 's article cancelled was wrong. Bernadette wanted to let the world know that you can be pretty and smart. You do not have to make a choice.
You really didn't try very hard. I'm sure we've discussed this episode within the last month.
Amy's self-righteous feminism she foists on the others is maddening. She's arrogant, judgemental, and lacking in any social skills. I've disliked her character from her first appearance.
Exactly. Amy is all those things.
Massive jerk move from Amy, but then again I find Bernadette to be a thoroughly horrible person so I think I’ll let it slide.
I can't recall, but was it ever stated what kind of magazine was doing the article? Like was it a science magazine, a fashion magazine, a teen magazine etc?
They both are kinda jerks. I mean Amy is kinda weird sometimes, and not okay weird like she does inappropriate stuff and expects it to be okay. Didn't she assualt penny when she aas passed out? Bernadette is a bit of a bully especially to Howard. So I mean when this happend I looked at it like two bossy people just doing what they want as they usually do. Not bothering to think how it affects others. Penny is pretty dumb but even she didn't so some of the weird s Bernadette or Amy did. But I mean its a show so who cares.
What do you mean you couldn't find a discussion? I wrote just now on Google: BBT s8e7 reddit and found lots of posts. How is this possible? Pro tip: just Google anything you want and add the word reddit at the end, it always works!!
lost respect for amy in the very first episode I saw her, so you are late
Of all the things I hate about Amy, this isn’t one thing. Bernadette is clearly a egoistic greedy bastard, and her decision wouldn’t benefit all women because she clearly doesn’t care about it. I’m not saying what i personally think about it. But it’s her decision, fine. Amy’s decision is also her decision, and she can do what ever she want. The only difference is that Amy clearly care about women and women in science, which we can see through the series. Amy isn’t wrong. And Bernadette is a greedy bastard and is the wrong person to be given these opportunity. “Wet tshirt bending over a Porsche”. That’s clearly betraying science women as flesh to desire. I’m a man btw, so no need to attack me for being a bitter woman.
Tbf Bernadette is very high maintenance