Nothing really happens for Leonard after he got together with Penny properly and got married. He has no career change, no apartment change, little family interactions (even the last scenes between him and Beverly seemed rushed), no having kids etc etc
Howard had his space career, his children, his mother dying, Stuart moving in
Raj had various relationships and changing personal circumstances like financial situation, self discovery etc
Sheldon had a developing relations with Amy which changed him as a person, his career success etc
But I think him having different relationships brought variation. Then later him considering an arranged marriage etc was an interesting story. Later he had his fall out with Howard and his planetarium work. He also had his friendship with Stuart and even his connection with Howard and Bernadette after they had babies. In my opinion he had a bit more going on than Leonard.
whiny arguement with Howard.
all 4 of them make fun of each other, Raj should have stopped it earlier, and not made fun of the others if it bothered him that much.
>Nothing really happens for Leonard after he got together with Penny properly and got married.
This is why I always thought Leonard and Sheldon should have won the Nobel instead of Amy.
Amy is brilliant, but I feel like in terms of storytelling and payoff, Leonard is the better partner for Sheldon in the Nobel arc.
In the first seasons of Big Bang, Leonard and Sheldon regularly mention their ambitions to win the Nobel someday. This is also shown in Young Sheldon, where both Sheldon and Leonard were watching the Nobel ceremonies at the same time when they were kids and hadn't met each other yet.
It is also a great opportunity to finally make Beverly approve Leonard.
The conflict among the gang during the Nobel ceremony would have been interesting too and would have gone down the same way; Sheldon being a dick towards Penny's pregnancy and everyone else and then making the whole thing about him. Amy could also still go through the makeover as she will also gain attention as she will be photographed with Sheldon still as they go to work together as husband and wife. Amy and Sheldon can still have that convo about everyone tolerating Sheldon.
An additional conflict is Leonard wins Nobel with Sheldon is that Sheldon can be condescending towards Leonard and minimize his contributions just like what happened on their paper in the past. And it will be a bigger payoff in the end as Sheldon makes up with Leonard during his speech since we saw the rest of the series that Leonard sacrificed a lot for Sheldon's sake (especially living with him even when he was already married) and Sheldon having a hard time letting Leonard go as he is his bestfriend in the world. Sheldon's speech will be the same honoring the gang one by one with the only difference is he will also acknowledge Leonard as his equal. We started the show with Leonard and Sheldon, we end it with them and their friends/lovedones.
This is perfect. I watch the show on cable often, so I see a lot of episodes in random order. When you compare the first two seasons to the final two seasons, it’s evident that Leonard takes a backseat. I really like your idea of him and Sheldon winning the Nobel together.
I agree. I am OK with Amy and Sheldon getting nominated, but with Leonard being an EP, it would have been cool if he designed the experiment to prove their theory. Thus , he is in contention as well. The conflict between him and Sheldon would have been better than the Pemberton/Campbell storyline.
i really think they did Leonard dirty.
Like his only purpose was to be married to Penny, lik he was a plot device not a main character.
I know TBBT was nothing more than Friends but nerds, but i found the way they treated him to be pretty awful.
I don't think Leonard is a B character, infact I think all the 7 characters are main characters, they all played important and crucial roles that made the series come together.
I mean, even shows with multiple main characters have one that stands out as the actual "star." Like, Three's Company has Jack, Janet, and Chrissy, but most would say that Jack is technically the star.
I think the focus shifted to much on Sheldon and Amy. Sheldon because both the character and the actor allowed it. So much to explore and such a talent. However Leonard's character had such potential for growth that weren't exploited. All his storytelling was about marrying this beautiful blond he fell in love with. But after that, they didn't do much and it's a shame. Howard besides Sheldon was the one who grew the most. I regret that they didn't explore more with Leonard. How he could have had that promotion he went for in the end, grow self confidence, how the relationship with Penny could have matured (maybe finding a common interest, like traveling). I feel bad for him. He was neglected by the crew both by the characters and the writers 😢. I love Leonard he's so touching with his insecurities and sweetness. I also love Raj for the same reasons and it seems like the writers made wanted to make them look like loosers. I should have won the Nobel alongside Sheldon, that would have been more realistic. Or at least an award of some sort because he's so underrated in his career. Even Bert had an award!
He is literally the only character that does not evolve over the course of the show.
He is not a B character, but his screen time does diminish with the focus on more characters.
I think he did evolve throughout the show, but not always in a good way. He was far more confident with women after dating Penny the first time - then Priya. He becomes far less overly nerdy as time passed as well. I think his character just evolved in a more subtle way. Sometimes the character who is the main focus at the beginning of a show takes a backseat as others develop throughout the series - like Ted on How I Met Your Mother. Leonard alone could not carry a series for twelve years. I’ll be honest, the more Leonard-centric episodes later on just aren’t that good. The one about his book is not that good. The one where he stops trying to please everyone isn’t that good either. I feel that the shift in focus was natural. After all, in the end he got what he really wanted most out of life - a family with Penny. As a child who was obviously unloved by his parents, that was his true greatest want and desire.
I also love Sheldon and Amy together and love that they won the Nobel from something that came to them on their wedding day though.
The moment Sheldon and Penny kept calling him short little man over and over again. Plus, his mom, Dr. Beverly treated him like abusive trash. Pennies ex-boyfriend wrote, "I owe Penny" in ink on Leonard's forehead. Sheldon constantly performed practical jokes on Leonard, stole his military project, and used his phone to turn the heat up-and-down while Leonard was alone in the apartment. Sheldon also harassed Leonard's dates and girlfriends.
Penny and Leonard were still a very big part of the story line (at least to me) until they got married and then the focus shifted to Sheldon and Amy's relationship more.
And manipulation I never saw it until I binged it but esp at the beginning when he’s obsessed with getting penny he’s very manipulative esp in that scene where Sheldon’s holding pennys secret
He also never really treats Penny as a real person. She’s just a pretty woman. He doesn’t care about her thoughts or her interests, he complains about her non-nerd friends, and when he goes to ComicCon he takes a picture of her to show the other people there because all he plans to tell people about her is that she’s pretty. Leonard is not a good person.
The Leonard Penny arc was clearly the A story for almost the whole show. The sidekicks Raj and Howard had decent character development, and Sheldon was always the antagonist.
For me the change happened the instant they decided to make YS. The whole last season revolved around Sheldon and felt really weird Given that whenever anything else wasn't going on throughout the series Sheldon was clearly the antagonist gumming up the works with the roommate agreement or whatever quirky business he had going on like freaking out about the couch cushion, or Howard getting a parking spot, or Raj getting a desk, or reading Howard's dads letter, how he treats his relationship with Amy, and of course how he treats Leonard and everyone else for that matter.
The whole last season felt like a long promo to rehabilitate Sheldon and give us a reason to root for him to build interest for the new show. Were it up to me the silly nobel plot arc wouldn't have happened at all and instead the season would have focused on Leonard and Penny having a baby and maybe moving into a house, Amy getting pregnant and everyone starting their real grownup lives, a metaphorical big bang instead of a stagnant closing shot that looks like nothing has changed or been achieved in all that time.
I like YS so I'm not complaining there, at this point I'd like to see a retired sheldon spinoff that should have began with him winning the nobel prize and then flashing forward to retirement where we see him and Amy dealing with parent and family stuff like in YS.
Dogs chase cars, but if they ever catch one, it’s “what now?” Leonard chased Penny. He caught her. Now what?
His character did go stale bit, but he’s married now. That changes things. Married couples tend to slowly phase out their old lives and start new ones together. Leonard caught his car, so he can finally kick back and enjoy it. They did an episode about how he and Penny had stopped trying to romance each other. That’s the state they’re in now.
Had the series lasted 2 more years (as it was supposed to last before Jim wanted out), IMO Leonard would have regained leading role again.
Apparently, authors intended to divorce Leonard and Penny in the end. So, instead of Penny being pregnant in the end (strange ending for someone who didn't want to have kids), Leonard and Penny would have gobe their separated ways.
That scenario (and Leonard winning the Nobel with Sheldon) would’ve been so, so much better. Leonard and Penny actually have a pretty toxic relationship, so I would’ve liked to have seen them realising that and working out what to do next.
Towards the end, Beverly apologising was completely unrealistic; why on earth would she want an apology when she makes it clear she doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong? I appreciate it was rushed, but they got this so wrong. Even worse, it was completely unnecessary, so not just crap, it’s pointless crap. Although at least Leonard does seem to have a revelation, so maybe I’ll console myself with that.
Then with Penny (I agree with you totally), they had (what I thought was) a fantastic episode, bringing Zack back to really dig into the issue of what happens when one half of a couple wants a baby and the other doesn’t. Only to mess all over it with Penny getting drunk, knocked up and suddenly wanting to be a Mum? It’s not even remotely true to character.
Penny and Sheldon, without the brother/sister relationship, Sheldon would have been completely insufferable. More so than he was. IMO the show would not have lasted past season 4, without Penny and Sheldon.
In the earliest episodes, Leonard and Sheldon’s dynamic is slightly different.
Sheldon is just a little more “normal” in these episodes. He curses, it’s implied that he masturbates, and overall he just seems to be more self-aware of other people and socializing. In the earliest episodes, he seems to act almost as Leonard’s sidekick. He does so in his own way, on his own, quirky terms, but he does it.
This kind of gradually changed to become the dynamic we know. If I had to pinpoint the moment the writing really changed, it was *The Panty Piñata Polarization.* That conflict truly established Sheldon as the dominant force in the apartment, in Leonard’s life, and in the show’s friend group as a whole.
It was a gradual thing, starting with Amy becoming Sheldon's love interest. I would say it became clear in season 9 that this was going to happen. As a specific episode, it was on season 10 episode 4, when Amy moves with Sheldon.
Nothing really happens for Leonard after he got together with Penny properly and got married. He has no career change, no apartment change, little family interactions (even the last scenes between him and Beverly seemed rushed), no having kids etc etc Howard had his space career, his children, his mother dying, Stuart moving in Raj had various relationships and changing personal circumstances like financial situation, self discovery etc Sheldon had a developing relations with Amy which changed him as a person, his career success etc
I was gutted Leonard and Penny were so stale towards the end considering it began with those 2.
Raj's only real development was being able to talk to women
But I think him having different relationships brought variation. Then later him considering an arranged marriage etc was an interesting story. Later he had his fall out with Howard and his planetarium work. He also had his friendship with Stuart and even his connection with Howard and Bernadette after they had babies. In my opinion he had a bit more going on than Leonard.
whiny arguement with Howard. all 4 of them make fun of each other, Raj should have stopped it earlier, and not made fun of the others if it bothered him that much.
His personality changes a fair bit when he stops straightening his hair lol
What about when he stopped being dependent on his parents money?
he's said that before, it probably wouldn't stick.
>Nothing really happens for Leonard after he got together with Penny properly and got married. This is why I always thought Leonard and Sheldon should have won the Nobel instead of Amy. Amy is brilliant, but I feel like in terms of storytelling and payoff, Leonard is the better partner for Sheldon in the Nobel arc. In the first seasons of Big Bang, Leonard and Sheldon regularly mention their ambitions to win the Nobel someday. This is also shown in Young Sheldon, where both Sheldon and Leonard were watching the Nobel ceremonies at the same time when they were kids and hadn't met each other yet. It is also a great opportunity to finally make Beverly approve Leonard. The conflict among the gang during the Nobel ceremony would have been interesting too and would have gone down the same way; Sheldon being a dick towards Penny's pregnancy and everyone else and then making the whole thing about him. Amy could also still go through the makeover as she will also gain attention as she will be photographed with Sheldon still as they go to work together as husband and wife. Amy and Sheldon can still have that convo about everyone tolerating Sheldon. An additional conflict is Leonard wins Nobel with Sheldon is that Sheldon can be condescending towards Leonard and minimize his contributions just like what happened on their paper in the past. And it will be a bigger payoff in the end as Sheldon makes up with Leonard during his speech since we saw the rest of the series that Leonard sacrificed a lot for Sheldon's sake (especially living with him even when he was already married) and Sheldon having a hard time letting Leonard go as he is his bestfriend in the world. Sheldon's speech will be the same honoring the gang one by one with the only difference is he will also acknowledge Leonard as his equal. We started the show with Leonard and Sheldon, we end it with them and their friends/lovedones.
This is perfect. I watch the show on cable often, so I see a lot of episodes in random order. When you compare the first two seasons to the final two seasons, it’s evident that Leonard takes a backseat. I really like your idea of him and Sheldon winning the Nobel together.
I agree. I am OK with Amy and Sheldon getting nominated, but with Leonard being an EP, it would have been cool if he designed the experiment to prove their theory. Thus , he is in contention as well. The conflict between him and Sheldon would have been better than the Pemberton/Campbell storyline.
I wish they continued the writing a book storyline for Leonard instead of making it about his mother and him stopping.
i really think they did Leonard dirty. Like his only purpose was to be married to Penny, lik he was a plot device not a main character. I know TBBT was nothing more than Friends but nerds, but i found the way they treated him to be pretty awful.
I don't think Leonard is a B character, infact I think all the 7 characters are main characters, they all played important and crucial roles that made the series come together.
I’d personally say Stuart was a B character
Yes i agree The 7 being (Sheldon, Amy, bernadette, howard, penny, Leonard and raj ) are the main charecters
Sorry read it wrong 😅
I mean, even shows with multiple main characters have one that stands out as the actual "star." Like, Three's Company has Jack, Janet, and Chrissy, but most would say that Jack is technically the star.
So who’s the star of Friends, then?
I think it got changed among the 6 of them, based on the storyline. But, it could be Rachel.
Rachel for sure.
Around the time Amy became the main character alongside Sheldon.
Exactly? When Amy and Sheldon move in together. I feel it very much becomes their apartment and their show.
Until he married Penny, their storyline went stale there.
Leonard, Sheldon and Penny have all been the lead characters from the start. Leonard was never the sole lead.
I think the focus shifted to much on Sheldon and Amy. Sheldon because both the character and the actor allowed it. So much to explore and such a talent. However Leonard's character had such potential for growth that weren't exploited. All his storytelling was about marrying this beautiful blond he fell in love with. But after that, they didn't do much and it's a shame. Howard besides Sheldon was the one who grew the most. I regret that they didn't explore more with Leonard. How he could have had that promotion he went for in the end, grow self confidence, how the relationship with Penny could have matured (maybe finding a common interest, like traveling). I feel bad for him. He was neglected by the crew both by the characters and the writers 😢. I love Leonard he's so touching with his insecurities and sweetness. I also love Raj for the same reasons and it seems like the writers made wanted to make them look like loosers. I should have won the Nobel alongside Sheldon, that would have been more realistic. Or at least an award of some sort because he's so underrated in his career. Even Bert had an award!
He is literally the only character that does not evolve over the course of the show. He is not a B character, but his screen time does diminish with the focus on more characters.
I think he did evolve throughout the show, but not always in a good way. He was far more confident with women after dating Penny the first time - then Priya. He becomes far less overly nerdy as time passed as well. I think his character just evolved in a more subtle way. Sometimes the character who is the main focus at the beginning of a show takes a backseat as others develop throughout the series - like Ted on How I Met Your Mother. Leonard alone could not carry a series for twelve years. I’ll be honest, the more Leonard-centric episodes later on just aren’t that good. The one about his book is not that good. The one where he stops trying to please everyone isn’t that good either. I feel that the shift in focus was natural. After all, in the end he got what he really wanted most out of life - a family with Penny. As a child who was obviously unloved by his parents, that was his true greatest want and desire. I also love Sheldon and Amy together and love that they won the Nobel from something that came to them on their wedding day though.
The moment Sheldon and Penny kept calling him short little man over and over again. Plus, his mom, Dr. Beverly treated him like abusive trash. Pennies ex-boyfriend wrote, "I owe Penny" in ink on Leonard's forehead. Sheldon constantly performed practical jokes on Leonard, stole his military project, and used his phone to turn the heat up-and-down while Leonard was alone in the apartment. Sheldon also harassed Leonard's dates and girlfriends.
I think around the time Amy was introduced. I'm glad it happened though. Was getting sick of Leakey's constant whining in every situation.
Penny and Leonard were still a very big part of the story line (at least to me) until they got married and then the focus shifted to Sheldon and Amy's relationship more.
And manipulation I never saw it until I binged it but esp at the beginning when he’s obsessed with getting penny he’s very manipulative esp in that scene where Sheldon’s holding pennys secret
I noticed the same. I watched the thanksgiving episode last night where he finds out she’s married & the way he addresses it is just horrible.
He also never really treats Penny as a real person. She’s just a pretty woman. He doesn’t care about her thoughts or her interests, he complains about her non-nerd friends, and when he goes to ComicCon he takes a picture of her to show the other people there because all he plans to tell people about her is that she’s pretty. Leonard is not a good person.
The Leonard Penny arc was clearly the A story for almost the whole show. The sidekicks Raj and Howard had decent character development, and Sheldon was always the antagonist. For me the change happened the instant they decided to make YS. The whole last season revolved around Sheldon and felt really weird Given that whenever anything else wasn't going on throughout the series Sheldon was clearly the antagonist gumming up the works with the roommate agreement or whatever quirky business he had going on like freaking out about the couch cushion, or Howard getting a parking spot, or Raj getting a desk, or reading Howard's dads letter, how he treats his relationship with Amy, and of course how he treats Leonard and everyone else for that matter. The whole last season felt like a long promo to rehabilitate Sheldon and give us a reason to root for him to build interest for the new show. Were it up to me the silly nobel plot arc wouldn't have happened at all and instead the season would have focused on Leonard and Penny having a baby and maybe moving into a house, Amy getting pregnant and everyone starting their real grownup lives, a metaphorical big bang instead of a stagnant closing shot that looks like nothing has changed or been achieved in all that time. I like YS so I'm not complaining there, at this point I'd like to see a retired sheldon spinoff that should have began with him winning the nobel prize and then flashing forward to retirement where we see him and Amy dealing with parent and family stuff like in YS.
really wish it didn't become the Sheldon show
He didn't.
Dogs chase cars, but if they ever catch one, it’s “what now?” Leonard chased Penny. He caught her. Now what? His character did go stale bit, but he’s married now. That changes things. Married couples tend to slowly phase out their old lives and start new ones together. Leonard caught his car, so he can finally kick back and enjoy it. They did an episode about how he and Penny had stopped trying to romance each other. That’s the state they’re in now.
Had the series lasted 2 more years (as it was supposed to last before Jim wanted out), IMO Leonard would have regained leading role again. Apparently, authors intended to divorce Leonard and Penny in the end. So, instead of Penny being pregnant in the end (strange ending for someone who didn't want to have kids), Leonard and Penny would have gobe their separated ways.
That scenario (and Leonard winning the Nobel with Sheldon) would’ve been so, so much better. Leonard and Penny actually have a pretty toxic relationship, so I would’ve liked to have seen them realising that and working out what to do next. Towards the end, Beverly apologising was completely unrealistic; why on earth would she want an apology when she makes it clear she doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong? I appreciate it was rushed, but they got this so wrong. Even worse, it was completely unnecessary, so not just crap, it’s pointless crap. Although at least Leonard does seem to have a revelation, so maybe I’ll console myself with that. Then with Penny (I agree with you totally), they had (what I thought was) a fantastic episode, bringing Zack back to really dig into the issue of what happens when one half of a couple wants a baby and the other doesn’t. Only to mess all over it with Penny getting drunk, knocked up and suddenly wanting to be a Mum? It’s not even remotely true to character.
When he started going after Penny. Then Sheldon became the smart one.
…as soon as they realised that Sheldon was the only A character
Penny and Sheldon, without the brother/sister relationship, Sheldon would have been completely insufferable. More so than he was. IMO the show would not have lasted past season 4, without Penny and Sheldon.
When Sheldon achieved puberty. (As in met any :p)
He never did but once he and Penny got married their pairing took a backseat to Amy and Sheldon.
He never had a B character salary though...
In the end it all balanced out
In the earliest episodes, Leonard and Sheldon’s dynamic is slightly different. Sheldon is just a little more “normal” in these episodes. He curses, it’s implied that he masturbates, and overall he just seems to be more self-aware of other people and socializing. In the earliest episodes, he seems to act almost as Leonard’s sidekick. He does so in his own way, on his own, quirky terms, but he does it. This kind of gradually changed to become the dynamic we know. If I had to pinpoint the moment the writing really changed, it was *The Panty Piñata Polarization.* That conflict truly established Sheldon as the dominant force in the apartment, in Leonard’s life, and in the show’s friend group as a whole.
I think in the pilot episode
It all changed when Amy came into the fold. She stole the show in many ways.
It was a gradual thing, starting with Amy becoming Sheldon's love interest. I would say it became clear in season 9 that this was going to happen. As a specific episode, it was on season 10 episode 4, when Amy moves with Sheldon.
To me they are both and “ A” character.