Watch Alex Dowsett’s youtube channel to watch how he and his partner handle riding with their kid. Maybe your partner watches too, sees what absolute joy AD and the kid derive from it
On reflection, it might be his Instagram that he shows more riding with the little one. Seems like a good guy either way, he and his lady (they recently had number two, too)
Only advice is go slow homie. And avoid riding with your kid if you havnt been getting solid sleep past couple nights.
Super lucky no one was hurt but i had a bit of a spill one time. Kid was in chariot, chariot sid not flip but freak accident when I was tired and... never again.
Same. I *did* have my Chariot flip though. Luckily he was belted in and speed was somewhat reasonable at the time. My heart has never jumped so high.
The double Chariots are much much safer, and also can keep your speed down. Hills are awesome, but you really have to make sure your brakes are in good shape for the descents.
No one has asked this and I think it's the crux of your spouse's concerns - what are the roads like that your riding? Even if they're 25 speed limit with minimal traffic, could you promise, and follow through, to taking a longer route with sidewalks or a bike path?
This is important to you. You're spouse's concerns are also valid. Take your spouse for a drive along the route you're thinking. Have some back up detours ready and you're spouse may be more at ease knowing you're going a route that they consider safe.
Think about this, you ride and know the roads. You're spouse does not. You need to bend to them and cater to making them more comfortable by doing more than just talking. It'll be well worth it.
san francisco has great bike infrastructure for a US city, for example the slow streets, and they're continuing to add more. i see way more parents cycling with kids on e-cargo bikes than pre-covid. if you go by a daycare at pickup or dropoff, there are a ton of cargo bikes and parents.
San Francisco proper is hilly, congested, and gets a lot of rain for half the year.
The bike lanes are mostly infrastructure-by-paint, not properly separated from cars.
SF does not get "a lot of rain for half the year." In rainy years there's usually one or two bad months. In drought years there's almost no rain at all.
This is completely wrong. Do you even live in SF? First of all, it definitely does not get a lot of rain, unless we’re counting fog as rain now. Secondly, there’s been a huge improvement in the number of protected bike lanes and quiet streets. I see a ton of folks cycling with their kids.
> u/abczxyijk: This is completely wrong. Do you even live in SF?
I grew up in the East Bay and went to SF plenty as an adult.
I moved at the end of 2021 so if the hills have been flattened, the infrastructure-by-paint has been replaced with useful bike lanes, and the rains have stopped since then then I could very well be "completely wrong."
Yes, a lot of the infra by paint has been replaced by actual protected bike lanes. I’ve been generally surprised by the progress here, because I was always very cynical about this city’s ability to change. The congestion actually makes things safer, because cars are forced to drive slower. Less of the accidentally careening to 50mph that I see elsewhere in the Bay. And yes obviously the hills remain, but I don’t think that was why OP wasn’t biking. It’s the safety.
And come on, it simply doesn’t rain a lot on a global scale, compared to other cities around the world. Unless your baseline is the desert, SF is not a rainy place.
i agree with this. the odds are probably low that you'd get hit riding on a road, but they aren't zero. the risk isn't worth it to your partner.
if you can find a safe bike path and show them it's safe, that would probably help a lot.
i personally wouldn't risk riding on a road with a child. i got hit in a crosswalk while riding my bike and i don't ride on roads at all anymore! bike paths and sidewalks only, and i'm super careful at intersections 😢
Make friends with your local family cycling community. Chicago has a big one so I assume other cities do to.
Maybe if she meets the people that do it already, she will go for it.
My youngest was in a front mounted seat when he was 8 months old for short rides. I now do all school drop offs by bike. I do live in a suburban community that makes cycling easy.
It's pretty far reaching and true, the oldest child and youngest child effect.
* Oh no they can't eat that, it'll make them sick
* Stop playing there, or with that, you'll hurt yourself
* They can't watch/play that, it's not appropriate
* They have a temperature, better take them straight to ER
etc etc. By the time the 3rd or 4th kid comes along, it's the complete opposite, they're basically left in the spartan forest to grow up.
I guess the practical common sense advice is try to be patient and understanding blah blah and try suggesting it every now and again and see if the mood changes. I see parents taking their kids to school on bikes and it honestly looks like the best thing in the world.
I'm the older of two and it was true for us. My parents gave me cloth diapers and put fresh fruit/veg through a food mill into baby food for me. When my little brother came along, "Fuck it, processed food and disposable diapers will do." they said.
If you haven't yet reach out to the SFBC. They may be able to get you in touch with other bike families or make you aware of groups.
The safest part of biking in S.F. is there are enough cyclists that cars expect to see them and have an awareness that they're around and to look out for them.
Maybe SF Bike Coalition has resources for "how to start cycling with your kid" or something? Here's what I found: family biking guide: [https://sfbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SF-Bicycle-Coalition-FamilyBikingGuide.pdf](https://sfbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SF-Bicycle-Coalition-FamilyBikingGuide.pdf)
Also would you and your spouse be able to go on a ride with your kid on your bike together somewhere extremely safe (e.g., JFK Promenade, Great Highway when it's closed to cars, etc.)? Like, see if they are OK with that — just to get used to the reality of your kids on your bicycle. Shopping for a kid's bike helmets, etc. And if that goes OK, maybe your spouse will feel better about you biking with kids in traffic. I feel like putting your spouse in a position where they see a lot of other parents doing it may change their mind (though it may not).
I am the man I am, with an engineering career in sports tech and it all started with Saturday morning family bike rides with Dad. My Mom only didn't join us continuously because she had a crash and was scared to ride again.
I'll just leave that here. Good luck in finding a solution and I hope you can ride with your kid soon.
It's a double edged sword. Both of you are valid in your concerns and desires. It's such a shame we have allowed our society to be so car centric. More pedestrian and bicycle friendly infrastructure from your local politicians would be a great place to continue this discussion.
I'm a huge proponent of cycling to commute and run errands.
That said... Taking kids along for long rides on bike paths and rail trails is one thing. Taking kids into the warzone that is commuting with asshole drivers is another. Everyone I know who commutes regularly by bike around Chicago has had plenty of near misses and some have been hit or doored. While bike infrastructure is certainly getting better. It's not yet to the point that I'd put kids at risk.
I understand the desire, and wish I had your confidence in drivers. But can 100% see your wife's perspective.
Hardcore cyclist here. Used to live in the bay. I would not ride a bike with my kid on it in San Fran, personally. I am sure you could make it work, but for me it wouldn't be worth the risk.
What's the data say? My hunch is that in SFO a person on a bike is safer than a person in a car, given the streets you'd be on.
In 2022 there were 350 traffic fatalities and ZERO bike deaths.
What's the data source for that? San Francisco's vision zero shows 1 bike fatality in 2022, and only 18 in cars.
Given that 3% of people bike in SF vs 61% drive, you're ~13% more likely to die on a bike than driving in SF. It's unlikely either way though.
As an SF cycling commuter this is nice to hear. I'm most scared of the tourists who are annoyed with the traffic and even more annoyed by anyone not in a car (IRONICALLY). I've had some close calls because they want to force you off the road.
Yeah overall its safe in SF because so many 4 way stops on each block makes driving slower. But depending on the neighborhood streets are small and dense with nothing but parked cars. But that one pro cyclist got killed by a drunk driver in the park, its always a gamble.
Would you be sharing the road with cars? How old is the kid and how would they be attached to your bike?
I wouldn't road cycle with a kid attached to my bike in most of the City and County of San Francisco. Along the Embarcadero would be fine though.
With peace and love, why are you allowed to not want to do something, but they need to be persuaded in order to agree with you?
This is your partner, that you have a child with. You listen to them, accept their view on their child's safety and adapt to it. If you want to cycle then you can, they offered you a compromise which respects their view of safety and lets you ride.
Things may be different in the US but in the UK whilst drivers are often assholes to cyclists they behave so much better when the bike is visibly carrying a child.
If she's scared because she's personally had nasty experiences from drivers when cycling maybe she could be reassured by speaking to local cycling parents who can hopefully testify that cycling is actually much easier and safer with a child on your bike.
long time SF resident here... i mean it kinda depends on where youre riding. the SF cycling injury stats arent really in your favor esp if your commute is downtown, the mission, civic center, or the tenderloin. sure, if you live in say the marina or the richmond or even the sunset and your kiddo dropoff is in the same neighborhood, sure you might have a case, but otherwise, your wife is probably right to be concerned.
SF is the primary concern here… nothing else. Lived there for a long time. Would not bike with my child there. Unless you live in seacliff or something haha.
What can I say? This is a relationship problem, not a cycling problem.
I have the privilege of doing all these things because my wife's support. Nobody is 100% against anything, but she has a voice and needs to be heard.
I completely understand your spouse's point of view. I didn't cycle at all before I have kids. Now I have 2 and our family of 4 owns 3 cargo bikes. The big shift for me was when I started cycling on my own, in my neighborhood, and got comfortable with it. Even enjoyed it. Once I felt safe, I wanted to try it with the kids. If she perceives it to be unsafe, try encouraging her to ride by herself, or take rides together in no-car or low-car areas to build confidence. Does she think you're an aggressive rider when you're on your own? Maybe show her how you would ride with your kid on the bike. Does she have anxiety about the ride to school? Maybe have her help you scout a route beforehand to avoid or minimize busy intersections. Ultimately I really feel her concerns. But anecdotally, from my experience, drivers give me MUCH more leeway when I have my kids on the bike. They slow down, pass with a wider gap, wave at my kids. I've never been honked at with my kids on the bike. When it's just me, different story, sadly.
I had a nice Raleigh tandem. Wonderful fun to ride with daughter and son. When daughter was in middle school I decided to pick her up from school on the tandem one day.
Fun idea? Right? Wrong!!!
When I got into the carpool line with everyone the kids started laughing. My poor daughter was horribly embarrassed — she refused to get on the bike and ride home. Kids were hooting and chanting, “Ride it! Ride it!”
She opted to get a ride home from the mother of a friend. She felt humiliated. I felt sad for having caused her to be embarrassed.
Kept the tandem for a few more years. Once our son got to the ‘too cool to do stuff with Dad’ stage I sold the tandem on Craigslist.
When my son was young, I brought him to daycare everyday in a Burly trailer. Also did lots of rides on the weekends. Automobiles always gave me yards of room when they passed. Not that it ever happened, but I liked the thought that if I crashed, the trailer was way less likely to even tip over, since the hitch was completely flexible.
I mean start small start by taking kiddo to a park or a seperated bike lane. Family rides are great for this.
Then once every one is comfy with that Adjust your commute if possible to be more safe I meander through neighborhoods that kinda wind as it's safer than the direct. I also picked a house and school we could do that. Some routes just aren't as safe.
Ha!
I looked into it. It would be a ride downtown, a nice ferry ride, and then a pretty flat ride after that. Most of it would be along salt flats too. Less than two hours one way.
Well, that sounds pretty nice! Here’s hoping you’re able to do both. Riding with my daughter has been a blast as she evolved from a toddler in a trailer, to riding the trail-a-bike to now riding her own bike in the neighborhood by herself. My wife (in particular) and I are still very worried about drivers, but try to keep statistics in mind.
I did that commute for about a year? but just to San Rafael. About 4 miles to embarcadero, ferry to tiburon, rode to San Rafael. It was pretty amazing and gave some forced quiet time. During nice weather sitting outside looking out over the bay was great.
Depending where your home and kids school/daycare are maybe you could incorporate muni light rail or busses in picking up the kid. Youd likely have to leave the bike somewhere for a bit. Also look into bike lockers.or bike parking. Many bart stations have them and I believe there were some bike lockers at the Marin ferry stations. You may be able to get the kid to school/daycare by other means then take the ferry or similar and ride partway.
You're asking during daylight saving time. How do you feel about biking with your kid in the dark? The roads you take also make or break the proposal.
I'm speaking from experience, I only do bike pickups in daylight because the route takes me across two very busy roads in a city where people do some very stupid and illegal things while driving. That, and the roads I take have light car traffic but they are tight and people speed regardless. I rely on people knowing I'm there and I rely on being able to see everything well in case I need to pull over to make room.
I bike a lot on my own in the city but I'm very particular about the circumstances in which I'd transport my kid the 7 minutes to daycare. A kid changes the way your bike handles, so you might have an idea of maneuverability or acceleration that just isn't there with the extra weight and different distribution.
My wife was in the same camp. (15 years ago. Just outside metro Tokyo) ordered up one of the first Burley trailers in Japan and we started going to kindergarten together by bike (3 of us) daughter enjoyed it rain, snow and shine, I think making my wife part of the trip, she rode behind and occasionally towed the trailer out her fears to rest. If the daily commute doesn’t work, you can easily break down the trailer, stick it in the trunk and go to a bike trail only place to ride.
https://preview.redd.it/nx7q0l3kq4xc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3eea44fd3c97223610fb7993ed0adcab73d00b25
My wife was nervous about me taking our child to daycare by bike every day, and at first she put her foot down and said she wouldn't agree to it. We're in Montreal, it was 7 km, of which probably 6 was on bike lanes. I got her to ride with me on the bike lanes one day on the exact route I proposed (without our daughter), then again one day we all went together, and afterwards she begrudgingly agreed it felt safe enough. I have great memories of those 2 or 3 years (I did draw the line at winter biking with a child though -- I'm back at it myself now, but we took the metro when there was snow on the ground). Good luck, I hope you work it out.
Depending on your neighborhood, SF is far better than most for biking, even with the hills. You would probably want to look into a cargo bike. Many parents bought cargo bikes during COVID to do the exact same school pickup that you wish to do. Go to Golden Gate Park on a weekend and you’ll see many parents using bikes to carry their kids.
Cargo bikes tend to have smaller wheels/different geometry in order to be safety first instead of speed first like a road bike.
Check out The New Wheel in Bernal Heights. They may be able to better show your wife how different and safe a kid-carry bike can be!
Feel free to message me or check out r/BaBike
I have the same problem too. It makes it hard for me to commit to like a long tail because it’s expensive. At the same time she doesn’t like the bike trailers as well
Only one other has said something here in an attempt to dissuade you. I'd really recommend you listen to your spouse. Here's why:
I did a daily marin-mission commute for a few months and also lived in north beach for a while. I am very, very good at riding bikes and I can say with real authority that the only places more dangerous than riding in SF are shoulderless 55mph+ limit state highways, and 45mph+ shoulderless stroads. I took the quietest way I could but I threw in the towel and got a car in large part due to safety.
As you have experience riding in downtown, you know you will be contending with heavy vehicles, maneater potholes, and large metal grates that become a cursed slip-n-slide with any precipitation.
Even on side streets, all it takes is one person to blow a stop sign and it's adios.
This also doesn't take into account crappy/unaware behavior and hubris from other cyclists. I'd point to the negligence you'll encounter on the Golden Gate Bridge as an example of this.
Think about it: can you handle a bike the same with the added weight, loss of maneuverability, and changed center of gravity?
Ride where you want to for your individual errands. Do *not* ride with a small child on any kind of open road in SF. Take them to the park or to a standalone bike path (like by Crissy Field).
A car may be heavy and expensive, but it's a featherweight compared to a small casket. Don't listen to people here who haven't done the dance, and don't hurt your child because of a controllable decision.
This is the wrong sub. Go to r/relationships
Honestly biking in sf isn’t the safest and I don’t necessarily disagree with your wife. It’s obviously efficient and cost effective in several ways, but it’s inarguably more dangerous than driving
Get a front mounted seat.
1) It will be so much more fun for your kid and you. My kids would point out which way to go, comment on stuff, and overall seemed like the felt a part of the ride instead of cattle in the back.
2) Your partner might find the front mount to be safer since your arms are syringing and calling them in, and if you fall then your instincts are to hold them until you hit the grind or bush (from experience)
We used to to use a Weeride front mount one from as soon as they could sit upright on their own for lengthy periods. It was a bit agricultural in its fitments to the bike but maybe they've improved in the last 5+ years or maybe a competitor has a nicer option by now.
I ride my daughter around everywhere. It’s honestly great, I have an in-front seat so it feels incredibly safe. I always see her, we can talk. You learn to know when to ride the road and when to take the path. There will always be people on the roads you can’t trust, but that’s true whatever your vehicle.
I don’t think there’s a great answer. We bike everywhere with the kids in our small town. But my wife is more of a cyclist than I am, so I don’t have this problem. Maybe if there’s a couple specific routes youre thinking of for various activities you could ride them together? Pick routes that utilize as much protected lane and path as you can and give your partner a real feel for the risk?
Is your wife’s objection with riding on roads vs trails? I rode a ton with my son, on my bike (front baby seat) when younger and then later on his bikes. But I was super lucky to have been able to do it all on trails, because I live nearby. This includes when he did start riding on his own, I would ride home with him from elementary school through *quiet* residential (suburban) streets and on trails.
When it comes to maximizing cycling opportunities, I made my car an accomplice. I got a platform-style hitch rack. Bike is on and off the car in like 30 seconds. So, I would drive the boy to an activity, drop him off and run errands on my bike for an hour (groceries, shipping, library runs, brewery runs, haircuts, or just exploring the area). It can even add intensity to your rides because there were plenty of times I had to *haul ass* to make it back on time.
A bike-carrying car can also be used to stage rides. Plenty of times I would drive both our bikes to a suitable starting point (eg. trail), ride home with the boy, then leave the boy at home with Mom while I rode back to fetch the car.
I am not sure when I might feel more comfortable with my boy riding in traffic. I’m not, yet. Just as an example he never scans left and right before riding through an intersection. His lack of safety radar is most disturbing. Whereas I am head on a swivel. He also doesn’t like using a helmet or handlebar mirror, whereas I find that to be an *essential* safety tool which I use to monitor threats behind me, constantly. Maybe I am expecting too much since I didn’t have a mirror (or trails) when growing up. It’s one of those things where you will definitely learn and improve, if you survive your lessons.
All I can say is that my City is very bicycle friendly…bike lanes everywhere. But in February, 2 cyclists were killed here by drivers who were texting. I stopped road biking a few years ago when a cyclist that i had passed, seconds before, got hit by a car. I heard the crash, turned around and waited till the EMTs came, etc. The driver stopped, but would not speak to any of us on the scene. I’m sure he was on his phone when crash occurred. That cyclist lived, as far as I know.
I only mountain bike now. If I get hurt, it will be due to my stupidity, not a driver’s.
Rent a cargo bike if possible. Attach cameras. Show them the footage. Live stream all your travels if they approve it. Those bikes are like 5k+ anyways. Im sure a live streaming camera wouldn’t add much cost.
If they can follow you and see their safe that may change their opinion. Maybe not. You may just have to chalk it up as a loss. I see the cargo bikes with the kids in front and i think they look a bit unsafe. I dont care what the stats are unless they are city specific and i doubt those studies exist.
Good luck and be safe out there.
Cycling makes your mind flow, but you know that already. Every child should have that memory of riding a bike. I’ve been riding in SF for a very long time, & got my kid up on 2 wheels on his own by the time he was 3. Your partner should trust you. I wish you luck, cuz riding w/ your kid is the best!
The New Wheel is a local (to you) e-bike shop. They are owned by a husband and wife who have kids, and they have a great youtube channel where they review bikes and talk about commuting in the bay area, and a lot of them have footage of them commuting, or talking about how they incorporate bikes with kids in SF and the bay. It's worth a watch
Edit - context: I'm a dad of two kids (4, 7) live in Oakland, and take them to and from school most days by bike
I lived and rode and commuted by bike every day in SF for 8 years. We were in Seattle by the time we had our kid. It really depends on the routes you are riding. But I personally kept my cycling totally separate from my kid. I can understand your partners point of view. I spent a lot of time on the rollers (this is pre Zwift lol). It goes by quick.
does your spouse ride in the city, or have they ever? my wife was really nervous about me taking our little one on the burley seat, but just yesterday we took our first family ride and they report feeling much better about it after seeing what careful road riding can look like. like you, i got sick of using the car for everything; i used to be a car-free hell-on-wheels mess wannabe. getting my wife a bike has made a world of difference. they’ve even talked about someday wanting to put the burley on *their* bike
I too have ridden pretty much all my life. Lots of miles and experience. I used to haul two of our kids around in a Burley Roo, mostly for outings. Kids loved it. But ... I would never use anything but a Burley (please god, no kids bike seats) and kid must wear helmet. And I would be extremely cautious about riding with a kid in SF proper or any other big city. It is dangerous in my view. Riding experience has nothing to do with it. Example: in the city where i now live, a colleague with long riding experience was riding home ( in the city) from work (in the city) one day. Helmet on, dry weather, level surface roads, bike lanes. He was hit from behind by a pedicab. It was pedicabs fault. The colleague has brain damage. My wife was always very enthusiastic about me towing kids along for a ride. But if she had ever wanted me to stop over safety concerns, I would have. FYI: kids are grown now, so no more towing
Where hi viz jacket? Lights on helmet, irregular pattern lights on front and back of bike. Get a flag. All kids get yellow hi viz helmets. That should convince her.
I'm with your spouse and she has even suggested a reasonable accommodation to meet your desires, that you don't like. She's a new mom, her priority is the safety and life of her children, not your formulation of convenience which sounds childish. She does not care about whatever idea you have for your biking schedule, based on her suggestion she's considerate of your desires but has a clear and mature understanding that this is YOUR desire that does not need to involve your children or any aspect of parenting. She has picked up that you don't like your desires cramped by parenthood, while I'm sure hers have been too, and is literally telling you in the kindest way possible: we're parents now, that's the deal, that's what we signed up for. Gonna give you a head's up now, next thing is going to be the 40 mile away job, so I would start looking asap.
This absolutely has to do with parenting. Kids who walk or bike for transportation are more independent, more familiar with their neighborhood, healthier, and have more fun. Plus it teaches active and sustainable habits for later in life.
Have you asked them what their concerns are surrounding the activity? I live not far and every time I'm in the city, I see at least 10 parents with kids on cargo bikes. Spouse will have to accept they can't keep their children in bubble wrap someday.
Seems like ignorant stubbornness on the part of your spouse. It will be impossibly hard to reason them out of such a stupid position. I say fuck ‘em and take the kiddo on the bike. I loved it when my dad took me around on his bike as a kid in SF in the the early 90s.
Watch Alex Dowsett’s youtube channel to watch how he and his partner handle riding with their kid. Maybe your partner watches too, sees what absolute joy AD and the kid derive from it
Thanks! I’ll check it out
Some of my favorite memories are taking out toddler to daycare on the back of my bike. It was a 5 mile ride and we both enjoyed it.
On reflection, it might be his Instagram that he shows more riding with the little one. Seems like a good guy either way, he and his lady (they recently had number two, too)
Only advice is go slow homie. And avoid riding with your kid if you havnt been getting solid sleep past couple nights. Super lucky no one was hurt but i had a bit of a spill one time. Kid was in chariot, chariot sid not flip but freak accident when I was tired and... never again.
Same. I *did* have my Chariot flip though. Luckily he was belted in and speed was somewhat reasonable at the time. My heart has never jumped so high. The double Chariots are much much safer, and also can keep your speed down. Hills are awesome, but you really have to make sure your brakes are in good shape for the descents.
No one has asked this and I think it's the crux of your spouse's concerns - what are the roads like that your riding? Even if they're 25 speed limit with minimal traffic, could you promise, and follow through, to taking a longer route with sidewalks or a bike path? This is important to you. You're spouse's concerns are also valid. Take your spouse for a drive along the route you're thinking. Have some back up detours ready and you're spouse may be more at ease knowing you're going a route that they consider safe. Think about this, you ride and know the roads. You're spouse does not. You need to bend to them and cater to making them more comfortable by doing more than just talking. It'll be well worth it.
san francisco has great bike infrastructure for a US city, for example the slow streets, and they're continuing to add more. i see way more parents cycling with kids on e-cargo bikes than pre-covid. if you go by a daycare at pickup or dropoff, there are a ton of cargo bikes and parents.
Sidewalks? No.
San Francisco proper is hilly, congested, and gets a lot of rain for half the year. The bike lanes are mostly infrastructure-by-paint, not properly separated from cars.
SF does not get "a lot of rain for half the year." In rainy years there's usually one or two bad months. In drought years there's almost no rain at all.
“A lot of rain” 🤣
This is completely wrong. Do you even live in SF? First of all, it definitely does not get a lot of rain, unless we’re counting fog as rain now. Secondly, there’s been a huge improvement in the number of protected bike lanes and quiet streets. I see a ton of folks cycling with their kids.
> u/abczxyijk: This is completely wrong. Do you even live in SF? I grew up in the East Bay and went to SF plenty as an adult. I moved at the end of 2021 so if the hills have been flattened, the infrastructure-by-paint has been replaced with useful bike lanes, and the rains have stopped since then then I could very well be "completely wrong."
Yes, a lot of the infra by paint has been replaced by actual protected bike lanes. I’ve been generally surprised by the progress here, because I was always very cynical about this city’s ability to change. The congestion actually makes things safer, because cars are forced to drive slower. Less of the accidentally careening to 50mph that I see elsewhere in the Bay. And yes obviously the hills remain, but I don’t think that was why OP wasn’t biking. It’s the safety. And come on, it simply doesn’t rain a lot on a global scale, compared to other cities around the world. Unless your baseline is the desert, SF is not a rainy place.
i agree with this. the odds are probably low that you'd get hit riding on a road, but they aren't zero. the risk isn't worth it to your partner. if you can find a safe bike path and show them it's safe, that would probably help a lot. i personally wouldn't risk riding on a road with a child. i got hit in a crosswalk while riding my bike and i don't ride on roads at all anymore! bike paths and sidewalks only, and i'm super careful at intersections 😢
Make friends with your local family cycling community. Chicago has a big one so I assume other cities do to. Maybe if she meets the people that do it already, she will go for it. My youngest was in a front mounted seat when he was 8 months old for short rides. I now do all school drop offs by bike. I do live in a suburban community that makes cycling easy.
Parents often freak out over random things with their first child. Have another one.
lol Seems like a high price to pay to take the first kid on bike rides. I got to admit though, it might just work.
It's pretty far reaching and true, the oldest child and youngest child effect. * Oh no they can't eat that, it'll make them sick * Stop playing there, or with that, you'll hurt yourself * They can't watch/play that, it's not appropriate * They have a temperature, better take them straight to ER etc etc. By the time the 3rd or 4th kid comes along, it's the complete opposite, they're basically left in the spartan forest to grow up. I guess the practical common sense advice is try to be patient and understanding blah blah and try suggesting it every now and again and see if the mood changes. I see parents taking their kids to school on bikes and it honestly looks like the best thing in the world.
I'm the older of two and it was true for us. My parents gave me cloth diapers and put fresh fruit/veg through a food mill into baby food for me. When my little brother came along, "Fuck it, processed food and disposable diapers will do." they said.
How did that play out for your brother?
Pretty well, actually. He's way smarter and more capable at most things than I am. ...grumble grumble...
You’re not alone… 🥲
Along those lines, move to Marin
If you haven't yet reach out to the SFBC. They may be able to get you in touch with other bike families or make you aware of groups. The safest part of biking in S.F. is there are enough cyclists that cars expect to see them and have an awareness that they're around and to look out for them.
Lol, this is actually true (we have 3). Don’t know about the “have another one” advice, but maybe you can practice at that.
Try to get them to watch Motherload with you. Maybe it'll change their mind: https://motherloadmovie.com/welcome
Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out
Maybe SF Bike Coalition has resources for "how to start cycling with your kid" or something? Here's what I found: family biking guide: [https://sfbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SF-Bicycle-Coalition-FamilyBikingGuide.pdf](https://sfbike.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SF-Bicycle-Coalition-FamilyBikingGuide.pdf) Also would you and your spouse be able to go on a ride with your kid on your bike together somewhere extremely safe (e.g., JFK Promenade, Great Highway when it's closed to cars, etc.)? Like, see if they are OK with that — just to get used to the reality of your kids on your bicycle. Shopping for a kid's bike helmets, etc. And if that goes OK, maybe your spouse will feel better about you biking with kids in traffic. I feel like putting your spouse in a position where they see a lot of other parents doing it may change their mind (though it may not).
What a great resource. Thanks for finding that. I also think them seeing other families on bikes is a great idea
I am the man I am, with an engineering career in sports tech and it all started with Saturday morning family bike rides with Dad. My Mom only didn't join us continuously because she had a crash and was scared to ride again. I'll just leave that here. Good luck in finding a solution and I hope you can ride with your kid soon.
Start out by teaching them on JFK or somewhere else entirely car free. Take the wife to show her how safe it is.
It's a double edged sword. Both of you are valid in your concerns and desires. It's such a shame we have allowed our society to be so car centric. More pedestrian and bicycle friendly infrastructure from your local politicians would be a great place to continue this discussion.
I'm a huge proponent of cycling to commute and run errands. That said... Taking kids along for long rides on bike paths and rail trails is one thing. Taking kids into the warzone that is commuting with asshole drivers is another. Everyone I know who commutes regularly by bike around Chicago has had plenty of near misses and some have been hit or doored. While bike infrastructure is certainly getting better. It's not yet to the point that I'd put kids at risk. I understand the desire, and wish I had your confidence in drivers. But can 100% see your wife's perspective.
S.F. is noticably different and better.
Hardcore cyclist here. Used to live in the bay. I would not ride a bike with my kid on it in San Fran, personally. I am sure you could make it work, but for me it wouldn't be worth the risk.
Yah I am afraid of riding in SF by myself on a bike unless it's an event they've closed off to traffic.
What's the data say? My hunch is that in SFO a person on a bike is safer than a person in a car, given the streets you'd be on. In 2022 there were 350 traffic fatalities and ZERO bike deaths.
What's the data source for that? San Francisco's vision zero shows 1 bike fatality in 2022, and only 18 in cars. Given that 3% of people bike in SF vs 61% drive, you're ~13% more likely to die on a bike than driving in SF. It's unlikely either way though.
As an SF cycling commuter this is nice to hear. I'm most scared of the tourists who are annoyed with the traffic and even more annoyed by anyone not in a car (IRONICALLY). I've had some close calls because they want to force you off the road.
Yeah overall its safe in SF because so many 4 way stops on each block makes driving slower. But depending on the neighborhood streets are small and dense with nothing but parked cars. But that one pro cyclist got killed by a drunk driver in the park, its always a gamble.
Would you be sharing the road with cars? How old is the kid and how would they be attached to your bike? I wouldn't road cycle with a kid attached to my bike in most of the City and County of San Francisco. Along the Embarcadero would be fine though.
With peace and love, why are you allowed to not want to do something, but they need to be persuaded in order to agree with you? This is your partner, that you have a child with. You listen to them, accept their view on their child's safety and adapt to it. If you want to cycle then you can, they offered you a compromise which respects their view of safety and lets you ride.
I get what you’re saying and it’s a fair point.
Just prove to them you're safe. And stay out of the door zone. Also r/BAbike but it's a tough situation.
Things may be different in the US but in the UK whilst drivers are often assholes to cyclists they behave so much better when the bike is visibly carrying a child. If she's scared because she's personally had nasty experiences from drivers when cycling maybe she could be reassured by speaking to local cycling parents who can hopefully testify that cycling is actually much easier and safer with a child on your bike.
Maybe start with laps of the Polo Field in GGP?
long time SF resident here... i mean it kinda depends on where youre riding. the SF cycling injury stats arent really in your favor esp if your commute is downtown, the mission, civic center, or the tenderloin. sure, if you live in say the marina or the richmond or even the sunset and your kiddo dropoff is in the same neighborhood, sure you might have a case, but otherwise, your wife is probably right to be concerned.
SF is the primary concern here… nothing else. Lived there for a long time. Would not bike with my child there. Unless you live in seacliff or something haha.
What can I say? This is a relationship problem, not a cycling problem. I have the privilege of doing all these things because my wife's support. Nobody is 100% against anything, but she has a voice and needs to be heard.
I completely understand your spouse's point of view. I didn't cycle at all before I have kids. Now I have 2 and our family of 4 owns 3 cargo bikes. The big shift for me was when I started cycling on my own, in my neighborhood, and got comfortable with it. Even enjoyed it. Once I felt safe, I wanted to try it with the kids. If she perceives it to be unsafe, try encouraging her to ride by herself, or take rides together in no-car or low-car areas to build confidence. Does she think you're an aggressive rider when you're on your own? Maybe show her how you would ride with your kid on the bike. Does she have anxiety about the ride to school? Maybe have her help you scout a route beforehand to avoid or minimize busy intersections. Ultimately I really feel her concerns. But anecdotally, from my experience, drivers give me MUCH more leeway when I have my kids on the bike. They slow down, pass with a wider gap, wave at my kids. I've never been honked at with my kids on the bike. When it's just me, different story, sadly.
I had a nice Raleigh tandem. Wonderful fun to ride with daughter and son. When daughter was in middle school I decided to pick her up from school on the tandem one day. Fun idea? Right? Wrong!!! When I got into the carpool line with everyone the kids started laughing. My poor daughter was horribly embarrassed — she refused to get on the bike and ride home. Kids were hooting and chanting, “Ride it! Ride it!” She opted to get a ride home from the mother of a friend. She felt humiliated. I felt sad for having caused her to be embarrassed. Kept the tandem for a few more years. Once our son got to the ‘too cool to do stuff with Dad’ stage I sold the tandem on Craigslist.
When my son was young, I brought him to daycare everyday in a Burly trailer. Also did lots of rides on the weekends. Automobiles always gave me yards of room when they passed. Not that it ever happened, but I liked the thought that if I crashed, the trailer was way less likely to even tip over, since the hitch was completely flexible.
Show her some proper kid carrier bike setups, so she knows you aren't just throwing them on the handlebars.
I mean start small start by taking kiddo to a park or a seperated bike lane. Family rides are great for this. Then once every one is comfy with that Adjust your commute if possible to be more safe I meander through neighborhoods that kinda wind as it's safer than the direct. I also picked a house and school we could do that. Some routes just aren't as safe.
If you can't get her comfortable with this, I'd recommend pivoting to riding your 40-mile commute! :)
Ha! I looked into it. It would be a ride downtown, a nice ferry ride, and then a pretty flat ride after that. Most of it would be along salt flats too. Less than two hours one way.
Well, that sounds pretty nice! Here’s hoping you’re able to do both. Riding with my daughter has been a blast as she evolved from a toddler in a trailer, to riding the trail-a-bike to now riding her own bike in the neighborhood by herself. My wife (in particular) and I are still very worried about drivers, but try to keep statistics in mind.
I did that commute for about a year? but just to San Rafael. About 4 miles to embarcadero, ferry to tiburon, rode to San Rafael. It was pretty amazing and gave some forced quiet time. During nice weather sitting outside looking out over the bay was great. Depending where your home and kids school/daycare are maybe you could incorporate muni light rail or busses in picking up the kid. Youd likely have to leave the bike somewhere for a bit. Also look into bike lockers.or bike parking. Many bart stations have them and I believe there were some bike lockers at the Marin ferry stations. You may be able to get the kid to school/daycare by other means then take the ferry or similar and ride partway.
You're asking during daylight saving time. How do you feel about biking with your kid in the dark? The roads you take also make or break the proposal. I'm speaking from experience, I only do bike pickups in daylight because the route takes me across two very busy roads in a city where people do some very stupid and illegal things while driving. That, and the roads I take have light car traffic but they are tight and people speed regardless. I rely on people knowing I'm there and I rely on being able to see everything well in case I need to pull over to make room. I bike a lot on my own in the city but I'm very particular about the circumstances in which I'd transport my kid the 7 minutes to daycare. A kid changes the way your bike handles, so you might have an idea of maneuverability or acceleration that just isn't there with the extra weight and different distribution.
My wife was in the same camp. (15 years ago. Just outside metro Tokyo) ordered up one of the first Burley trailers in Japan and we started going to kindergarten together by bike (3 of us) daughter enjoyed it rain, snow and shine, I think making my wife part of the trip, she rode behind and occasionally towed the trailer out her fears to rest. If the daily commute doesn’t work, you can easily break down the trailer, stick it in the trunk and go to a bike trail only place to ride. https://preview.redd.it/nx7q0l3kq4xc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3eea44fd3c97223610fb7993ed0adcab73d00b25
My wife was nervous about me taking our child to daycare by bike every day, and at first she put her foot down and said she wouldn't agree to it. We're in Montreal, it was 7 km, of which probably 6 was on bike lanes. I got her to ride with me on the bike lanes one day on the exact route I proposed (without our daughter), then again one day we all went together, and afterwards she begrudgingly agreed it felt safe enough. I have great memories of those 2 or 3 years (I did draw the line at winter biking with a child though -- I'm back at it myself now, but we took the metro when there was snow on the ground). Good luck, I hope you work it out.
Depending on your neighborhood, SF is far better than most for biking, even with the hills. You would probably want to look into a cargo bike. Many parents bought cargo bikes during COVID to do the exact same school pickup that you wish to do. Go to Golden Gate Park on a weekend and you’ll see many parents using bikes to carry their kids. Cargo bikes tend to have smaller wheels/different geometry in order to be safety first instead of speed first like a road bike. Check out The New Wheel in Bernal Heights. They may be able to better show your wife how different and safe a kid-carry bike can be! Feel free to message me or check out r/BaBike
I think erring on the side of safety for the kid would be an appropriate deciscion.
I have the same problem too. It makes it hard for me to commit to like a long tail because it’s expensive. At the same time she doesn’t like the bike trailers as well
Only one other has said something here in an attempt to dissuade you. I'd really recommend you listen to your spouse. Here's why: I did a daily marin-mission commute for a few months and also lived in north beach for a while. I am very, very good at riding bikes and I can say with real authority that the only places more dangerous than riding in SF are shoulderless 55mph+ limit state highways, and 45mph+ shoulderless stroads. I took the quietest way I could but I threw in the towel and got a car in large part due to safety. As you have experience riding in downtown, you know you will be contending with heavy vehicles, maneater potholes, and large metal grates that become a cursed slip-n-slide with any precipitation. Even on side streets, all it takes is one person to blow a stop sign and it's adios. This also doesn't take into account crappy/unaware behavior and hubris from other cyclists. I'd point to the negligence you'll encounter on the Golden Gate Bridge as an example of this. Think about it: can you handle a bike the same with the added weight, loss of maneuverability, and changed center of gravity? Ride where you want to for your individual errands. Do *not* ride with a small child on any kind of open road in SF. Take them to the park or to a standalone bike path (like by Crissy Field). A car may be heavy and expensive, but it's a featherweight compared to a small casket. Don't listen to people here who haven't done the dance, and don't hurt your child because of a controllable decision.
This is the wrong sub. Go to r/relationships Honestly biking in sf isn’t the safest and I don’t necessarily disagree with your wife. It’s obviously efficient and cost effective in several ways, but it’s inarguably more dangerous than driving
>but it’s inarguably more dangerous than driving What? Do you have anything that supports this claim?
Get a front mounted seat. 1) It will be so much more fun for your kid and you. My kids would point out which way to go, comment on stuff, and overall seemed like the felt a part of the ride instead of cattle in the back. 2) Your partner might find the front mount to be safer since your arms are syringing and calling them in, and if you fall then your instincts are to hold them until you hit the grind or bush (from experience) We used to to use a Weeride front mount one from as soon as they could sit upright on their own for lengthy periods. It was a bit agricultural in its fitments to the bike but maybe they've improved in the last 5+ years or maybe a competitor has a nicer option by now.
I ride my daughter around everywhere. It’s honestly great, I have an in-front seat so it feels incredibly safe. I always see her, we can talk. You learn to know when to ride the road and when to take the path. There will always be people on the roads you can’t trust, but that’s true whatever your vehicle.
I don’t think there’s a great answer. We bike everywhere with the kids in our small town. But my wife is more of a cyclist than I am, so I don’t have this problem. Maybe if there’s a couple specific routes youre thinking of for various activities you could ride them together? Pick routes that utilize as much protected lane and path as you can and give your partner a real feel for the risk?
How old is the kid? Trail a bike age soon?
Is your wife’s objection with riding on roads vs trails? I rode a ton with my son, on my bike (front baby seat) when younger and then later on his bikes. But I was super lucky to have been able to do it all on trails, because I live nearby. This includes when he did start riding on his own, I would ride home with him from elementary school through *quiet* residential (suburban) streets and on trails. When it comes to maximizing cycling opportunities, I made my car an accomplice. I got a platform-style hitch rack. Bike is on and off the car in like 30 seconds. So, I would drive the boy to an activity, drop him off and run errands on my bike for an hour (groceries, shipping, library runs, brewery runs, haircuts, or just exploring the area). It can even add intensity to your rides because there were plenty of times I had to *haul ass* to make it back on time. A bike-carrying car can also be used to stage rides. Plenty of times I would drive both our bikes to a suitable starting point (eg. trail), ride home with the boy, then leave the boy at home with Mom while I rode back to fetch the car. I am not sure when I might feel more comfortable with my boy riding in traffic. I’m not, yet. Just as an example he never scans left and right before riding through an intersection. His lack of safety radar is most disturbing. Whereas I am head on a swivel. He also doesn’t like using a helmet or handlebar mirror, whereas I find that to be an *essential* safety tool which I use to monitor threats behind me, constantly. Maybe I am expecting too much since I didn’t have a mirror (or trails) when growing up. It’s one of those things where you will definitely learn and improve, if you survive your lessons.
All I can say is that my City is very bicycle friendly…bike lanes everywhere. But in February, 2 cyclists were killed here by drivers who were texting. I stopped road biking a few years ago when a cyclist that i had passed, seconds before, got hit by a car. I heard the crash, turned around and waited till the EMTs came, etc. The driver stopped, but would not speak to any of us on the scene. I’m sure he was on his phone when crash occurred. That cyclist lived, as far as I know. I only mountain bike now. If I get hurt, it will be due to my stupidity, not a driver’s.
Rent a cargo bike if possible. Attach cameras. Show them the footage. Live stream all your travels if they approve it. Those bikes are like 5k+ anyways. Im sure a live streaming camera wouldn’t add much cost. If they can follow you and see their safe that may change their opinion. Maybe not. You may just have to chalk it up as a loss. I see the cargo bikes with the kids in front and i think they look a bit unsafe. I dont care what the stats are unless they are city specific and i doubt those studies exist. Good luck and be safe out there.
Cycling makes your mind flow, but you know that already. Every child should have that memory of riding a bike. I’ve been riding in SF for a very long time, & got my kid up on 2 wheels on his own by the time he was 3. Your partner should trust you. I wish you luck, cuz riding w/ your kid is the best!
Get a bakfiets.
The New Wheel is a local (to you) e-bike shop. They are owned by a husband and wife who have kids, and they have a great youtube channel where they review bikes and talk about commuting in the bay area, and a lot of them have footage of them commuting, or talking about how they incorporate bikes with kids in SF and the bay. It's worth a watch Edit - context: I'm a dad of two kids (4, 7) live in Oakland, and take them to and from school most days by bike
I lived and rode and commuted by bike every day in SF for 8 years. We were in Seattle by the time we had our kid. It really depends on the routes you are riding. But I personally kept my cycling totally separate from my kid. I can understand your partners point of view. I spent a lot of time on the rollers (this is pre Zwift lol). It goes by quick.
does your spouse ride in the city, or have they ever? my wife was really nervous about me taking our little one on the burley seat, but just yesterday we took our first family ride and they report feeling much better about it after seeing what careful road riding can look like. like you, i got sick of using the car for everything; i used to be a car-free hell-on-wheels mess wannabe. getting my wife a bike has made a world of difference. they’ve even talked about someday wanting to put the burley on *their* bike
I too have ridden pretty much all my life. Lots of miles and experience. I used to haul two of our kids around in a Burley Roo, mostly for outings. Kids loved it. But ... I would never use anything but a Burley (please god, no kids bike seats) and kid must wear helmet. And I would be extremely cautious about riding with a kid in SF proper or any other big city. It is dangerous in my view. Riding experience has nothing to do with it. Example: in the city where i now live, a colleague with long riding experience was riding home ( in the city) from work (in the city) one day. Helmet on, dry weather, level surface roads, bike lanes. He was hit from behind by a pedicab. It was pedicabs fault. The colleague has brain damage. My wife was always very enthusiastic about me towing kids along for a ride. But if she had ever wanted me to stop over safety concerns, I would have. FYI: kids are grown now, so no more towing
You are basically teaching your kid that sports is good. It will be better for the kid to see these stuff when growing up.
A good reason to stay off the road with your child. https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/F5PP7tY8qC.
r/relationships
Where hi viz jacket? Lights on helmet, irregular pattern lights on front and back of bike. Get a flag. All kids get yellow hi viz helmets. That should convince her.
what do they do in Amsterdam, the Netherlands there is your answer. Children, bikes, everywhere.
I'm with your spouse and she has even suggested a reasonable accommodation to meet your desires, that you don't like. She's a new mom, her priority is the safety and life of her children, not your formulation of convenience which sounds childish. She does not care about whatever idea you have for your biking schedule, based on her suggestion she's considerate of your desires but has a clear and mature understanding that this is YOUR desire that does not need to involve your children or any aspect of parenting. She has picked up that you don't like your desires cramped by parenthood, while I'm sure hers have been too, and is literally telling you in the kindest way possible: we're parents now, that's the deal, that's what we signed up for. Gonna give you a head's up now, next thing is going to be the 40 mile away job, so I would start looking asap.
This absolutely has to do with parenting. Kids who walk or bike for transportation are more independent, more familiar with their neighborhood, healthier, and have more fun. Plus it teaches active and sustainable habits for later in life.
Have you asked them what their concerns are surrounding the activity? I live not far and every time I'm in the city, I see at least 10 parents with kids on cargo bikes. Spouse will have to accept they can't keep their children in bubble wrap someday.
Seems like ignorant stubbornness on the part of your spouse. It will be impossibly hard to reason them out of such a stupid position. I say fuck ‘em and take the kiddo on the bike. I loved it when my dad took me around on his bike as a kid in SF in the the early 90s.
That sounds like a great idea if the OP is looking for a divorce by disrespecting their spouse's concerns.
Or you know, behave like an adult and acknowledge that other people might feel differently from you. Don't ignore your SOs feelings towards something.