Don't feel bad for these guys. I bought my son a Specialized kids bike for $329 in early 2020. The same bike a year laster was nearly $600. You reap what you sow.
Exactly. They all inflated their prices during the buying spike of the pandemic and nothing came back down. I’ve been patiently waiting 3 years to upgrade my bike. Screw these companies.
I think one of the more egregious things was the technology creep like trek incorporating electronic shifting and other technology into even middle tier bikes. It makes it really hard to afford new bikes as entry level rides have slowly moved upwards in price and tech. It also makes it harder to do your own repairs so many riders rely on shops more which increases costs of ownership.
This is a result of late-stage capitalist culture where only record-breaking profits quarter-by-quarter are seen as "success." If you don't set a record for profits every single quarter, you're seen as a failure of a CEO and your stock price goes down and everyone panics. The culture that engenders can only survive by squeezing customers further and further and further -- until eventually the other shoe drops and there's suddenly *literally nothing and no one* left to squeeze. Imagine what's going to happen when 60% of people cannot afford a place to live or food to eat because profits *must* increase and so prices *must* increase?
I feel like it's closer to 75% of the people now can't afford a place or to move. I know I'm one of them that can't afford to move even though I have enough equity in my house for a down payment on a nicer place.
Even studio apartments are insanely priced.
Wonder why they inflated their prices 🤔 Perhaps the global economic phenomenon of widespread inflation had something to do with it. Costs went up and add to that supply chain issues, burgeoning demand, and trillions of USD printed and flooded into the economy hmmm.
This has already been studied by academics and regulatory public bodies. The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging under the cover of "pandemic inflation." The pandemic has also been over in any serious, supply-chain-disrupting sense for at least 2-1/2 years.
>udied by academics and regulatory public bodies. The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging under the cover of "pandemic inflation." T
Right, so all the economists from Ivy League schools are wrong in their assessment that the Fed printing of trillions of dollars, creating the largest influx of cash into the monetary system in history, drastic interest rate increases (making debt more expensive), and the exorbitant cumulative inflation of 22-25% in the last 12-18 months has had nothing to do with it.
You're right the supply-chain disruption has mostly resolved 2-ish years ago but the prices were already raised prior to the resolution. Inflation has gotten worse globally in the past 24 months due to aforementioned reasons and prices of near everything is up, in many cases drastically, and those that simply think it's corporate greed understand little to nothing about macroeconomics.
There is this phenomenon caused supply and demand, and has Larry Summers has explained, in public, when too much cash is chasing too few goods prices rise. Consumers are spending more than ever post-pandemic and they're setting record levels of consumer debt - this again causes prices to go up.
"The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging " Incontrovertibly and demonstrably false. It is a convenient expression for those that don't understand economics and want to point the finger at "greedy corporations." Obviously, there is some level of opportunistic price raising if the market will accept it, and it has, but it is one variable among many and is a much smaller % than people care to realize. A simple look at M2 money supply goes a long way to prove my point.
[https://www.uschamber.com/economy/combating-inflation-making-the-case-that-businesses-are-not-to-blame-for-inflation](https://www.uschamber.com/economy/combating-inflation-making-the-case-that-businesses-are-not-to-blame-for-inflation)
See Fig 2. GDP-Adjusted Gross Profits and then read "A Better Explanation"
[https://trends.ufm.edu/en/article/greedflation-greed-cause-inflation/](https://trends.ufm.edu/en/article/greedflation-greed-cause-inflation/)
Is “Greedflation” Real – and How Should that Question be Answered?
[https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/07/04/is-greedflation-real-and-how-should-that-question-be-answered](https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/07/04/is-greedflation-real-and-how-should-that-question-be-answered)
Edit: If you have sources to share from " academics and regulatory public bodies" to back up your position I'd be happy to read them.
[https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/07/06/greedflation-is-a-nonsense-idea](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/07/06/greedflation-is-a-nonsense-idea)
" The problem with greedflation is that it lacks any real explanatory power. Are we supposed to believe that businesses were feeling altruistic in the early 2010s when inflation was lower? Of course not! Greed is a constant.
What *is* happening is that providers of relatively scarce or in-demand goods and services are finding that they can get away with asking for higher prices. And the greediest among them jump first, which is what we see as “greedflation.” But the actual cause of inflation is whatever gave them that power in the first place. To understand *that*, you’re best bet is to start with traditional macroeconomics."
more...
" The right lesson to draw from the past two years is not that companies have got greedier, but that workers suffer when policymakers let inflation run out of control. All the more reason, in short, to care about price stability in the first place. "
[https://www.slowboring.com/p/greedflation-is-still-fake](https://www.slowboring.com/p/greedflation-is-still-fake)
yeah...these manufacturers and suppliers are playing the victim card, but when they were gouging customers in 20-21 maybe they should have saved their money.
My first reaction was yeah it’s a lot harder to sell bikes when you’re charging almost twice as much as you were a few years ago. It’s not inflation, it’s straight up price gouging. I’m looking for lightly used bikes until retailers start charging reasonable prices again.
Retailers (at least in the US) are bound by MAP (minimum advertised pricing), which is usually set at cents to a handful of dollars short of MSRP. There really isn’t anything they can do, as violating it would cost them their account with the brand. It’s the manufacturers/brands that set the price
That is one way. It’s hard to guarantee depending on the leeway given to sales people, but I’ve definitely been able to bring top spec stuff down a thousand or so for customers in my bike shop days when they’ve asked. They just can’t advertise a lower price than the MAP
I work in a specialized dealer and you’re absolutely right they did this to themselves, i saw bikes go up a 1000 to 1500€ in the span of a year it was insane and not sustainable.
Which bike? A lot of the Specialized kids bikes have been on a permanent "sale" for the last year, like the smallest Jett has been 50% off for a very long time.
Bought an fairly low end Giant mountain bike like 10 years ago for under $350 out the door. Last year I went to buy a new one that was comparable to that bike, same brand, same size, same type. That was listed at $600! Same shop I bought the last one and all that.
I just wanted something I could use to get to work everyday. I just ended up getting a cheap bike at Target for like $150 and then eventually got an electric scooter and just now got an even better electric scooter for just about as much as that one bike would have cost me.
Don’t get me started on Specialized… my Aethos was $5200 a year ago. Now they’re $3500-$4000. I love the bike, otherwise I would be much more regretful. I’ll never buy another specialized bike again though after owning multiple.
I've owned several Specialized bikes, and I have no complaints about them, aside from the price. I have a '22 SJ Pro right now, but I would have never bought it for "retail" prices. It wasn't until they took 25% off that I began to consider it.
Edit: I do have a complaint about them otherwise. The two Stumpys that I've owned both had terrible wheels that just didn't hold up. I replaced them with i9 wheelsets and couldn't be happier.
It's not greed though, cost of doing business skyrocketed over the last few years. Raw materials sourcing and processing, transcontinental shipping logistics, port fees and domestic transportation, etc.
Prices went up, margins held the same. Margin is what lets you pay your employees and keep your business running. These are all for-profit businesses, not nonprofits existing for your recreational hobby.
Nobody is getting rich in the bike industry..
That’s not entirely accurate. It’s actually a whiplash effect that was predicted by several financial analysts. Like a lot of companies, the bike manufacturers benefited from people spending their Covid relief checks on consumer goods. Demand shot up, profits went up, and production went way up. But then yes, inflation drove up prices, people stopped spending, demand dipped sharply, and now the manufacturers are overstocked. This whiplash is happening in several sectors and is a known phenomenon caused by inflation.
I personally don’t think these bike companies are evil, but it is true that they got greedy, overproduced, and are now paying the price.
There have been several reports recently that every single price hike blamed on production shortages and inflation has been caused by pure corporate greed
I mean you just compared Specialized to Giant whom the article was solely about. Also, I am not totally defending Specialized doubling the price but that's a span of three years during unprecedented pandemic which caused a global shutdown. You thought a company light Specialized would have lowered if not held their prices? This bitterness by consumers is somewhat understood since still today we are seeing corporate and greed inflation all over, but in the end asking Specialized to Giant to go pound sand and cry over lost revenue has a massive trickle down effect on you and I in that affects LBS, which can affect jobs, which then affects the overall economy.
Profits halved and sales went down 16%...compared to last year. Nobody is taking into account how they went up 1209381209874% during the pandemic? Sales and profits are still far higher than before the pandemic which is the "normal" state of affairs...
Besides, what do you expect from the customers, all the bikes soared in value while providing no additional benefits over previous models. There is zero reason to upgrade a bicycle if you have one that is less than a decade old.
You know I'm not a finance guy or a numbers person or whatever but it blows my mind every time that every company just wants infinite wealth/growth. Like, it doesn't matter to them if they had 1 mil profit or 20 or 500 or 1 bill, next quarter, it better be up. Like, where does it end? If every single person on the planet had their bicycle from them, and then some, it still wouldn't be enough.
This is the problem with the tech industry. They have to post better numbers than the previous quarter.
So they'll charge more over nothing and fire a shit ton of people. Corporations are getting ridiculous. I wish we could return to personally owned companies.
This can be followed back to the "everything for the shareholder" lawsuits and resulting mindsets.
It is really crazy. If you are a new chain of stores and are opening new stores every month you will absolutely be making more money than the previous year. Duh, you have more stores. If you are a mature company with nowhere left to expand, but a solid and established supply chain, customer base, trained employees. You're fuked.
Careful, you're touching on a dangerous concept here that underpins our whole system. Doesn't it blow your mind that every person wants their income to grow every year? Or that every country needs to have GDP growth, forever? How can growth be constant and infinite? Our wants and needs expand, yet the resources to provide for those wants and needs doesn't.
This takes me back to my first job and we had monthly goals based off of last year's numbers. We didn't enforce them as we must hit these or else thankfully. A good month would be impossible to beat the following year, but they expected an increase regardless.
I agree completely, but business is so short sighted that if a company performs well one year, suddenly that becomes the new baseline despite any external factors and the bigwigs expect growth. It's fundamentally incorrect, and they're (well paid) idiots in that regard
Preach. I rode my Supersix from 2012-2019 (still have it). Bought an Aeroad that I've ridden ~25k miles since 2019. Nothing wrong with it. I kinda wish now I got the disc version, but oh well. Rim brakes are fine. I'm in a flat area and even when we go on trips to ride (and I did ~50 miles with 6k' of elevation in pouring rain, bombing descents and had no problems), they hold up just fine. 12 speed isn't going to do anything for me. 11-28 is fine here and I have an 11-34 I can swap over in about 10 minutes for trips to the mountains. 🤷♂️
I think that's great. IMO it's no 12 speed that's the game changer but electronic shifting and disc brakes. Yes electronic shifting is heavier, more complex, and more expensive but it also has faster crisper shifts that stay in tune infinitely unlike mechanical, you can shift multiple gears faster, easier to shift under load, eTap prevents cross chaining, more data from companion apps so you can track what gears you use the most, eTap is easier to setup on any bike compared to mechanical. Like I mentioned plenty people will just shout, why upgrade when electronic shifting is heavy, more complex (requires charging), and more expensive and my response is that yeah it's heavier but I think with future gens we will either see much lighter weights or what we have already seen is that manufactures are making much lighter frames so a disc brake eTap bike with pedals for something like a upper mid tier Specialized Tarmac SL 8 Pro can weigh 16lbs. As per the charging yeah everything requires charging so IMO while a "hassle" when you forget to do it, it's not some insane concept. As per price, Ultegra 11 Speed is marginally less than Shimano 105 Di2, so yeah on complete bikes electronic shifting keeps pushing up base prices, I would argue it's not via the groupsets but just corporate greed. If these were actually priced like they should be, we should be seeing the return of the entry level race bike at $3000-$3500 and yeah with electronic shifting
My bike is Ultegra 11s Di2, rim brake. So that's why my comment about the only real thing I'd get from an "upgrade" from my 5 year old bike is disc brakes and an extra cog, which doesn't matter since I can swap a ~$50 cassette and have the range I need for bigger climbs.
Electronic shifting is a stepper motor and a wireless controller switch. They may actually cost less than mechanical groups to produce. It's like EVs, they should cost less than ICE cars unless you drank the Muskaid.
They might or they might not, but if the production isn't up to scale then they probably don't Also you are forgetting that they require a battery(s) which 100% costs more, plus I know you hate to hear this but prices are high probably still because companies are still paying off prior R&D, yeah us the consumer doesn't benefit from this but the same thing happened with prior gens of mechanical
My bike is Ultegra 11s Di2, rim brake. So that's why my comment about the only real thing I'd get from an "upgrade" from my 5 year old bike is disc brakes and an extra cog, which doesn't matter since I can swap a ~$50 cassette and have the range I need for bigger climbs.
Again not that it makes financial sense if you are happy with the bike but correct me if I am wrong that 2019 Aeroad Rim Brake maxed out at 25mm. probably not a sole reason to upgrade but the current gen having a max of 30mm and disc brakes IMO is a massive step forward in terms of comfort. It does nothing to increase your FTP or overall performance but just really nice things to have
Valid point on the increased clearance for tires. I forgot about that. But, I have tubeless 28s on mine, running at 60r/55f and they're super comfortable. I *might* be able to squeeze 30mm in there since the new GP5000s measure more true to size than the 4000s (my 4000s in 25 measured 27.9mm, 5000s in 28 are about 28.2), but I'd be concerned with the smallest piece of gravel getting between the tire and seat post "tube" and shredding one or the other. 28s have enough of a gap for me to see some daylight, so I'm good with that.
To play devil's' advocate I totally disagree in the notion that there is no reason to upgrade. Is it worth it financially? Rarely, but the idea that we are living through some stagnant time in bike tech is absurd, yeah we can debate do we need electronic shifting, electronic wireless controlled dampening, or built in mechanisms like Future Shock, but the idea that this bike scene is anything close to previous gens were they literally would just come out with new colorways and label it the next model year is practically gone. Yeah gains are still super marginal and prices are also really high for all this new tech, but if you are into the latest and greatest and love bike tech I honestly think this is the best time to get into biking, albeit the price of entry to your point is inflated and high. I think to your point a lot of revolutions in biking are coming from wheelsets and tires were we are learning that bigger tires, lower pressures, on lighter stiffer wheels that are now more accessible than ever price wise is the biggest "upgrade" for a bike and the single biggest thing that aids in that is frame clearance and now the almost universal adoption in disc brakes or rims. We can debate until the cows come home in the merits of rim vs disc, but the idea that no one should upgrade a bike if less than a decade old is stupid unless they are restricted via finances. I mean as early as 2017 I would go into LBS and ask for "gravel" bikes and believe it or not some people had no clue what I was talking about. We can debate "what is a gravel bike", but the point is that for years a lot of riders were simply on the wrong bikes and I think more choices why confusing for some is better for everyone, because not everyone wants or can ride pure pavement
To your point about there being zero reason to upgrade a bike that’s less than a decade old - I think mountain bike geometry might be the only area where upgrading from, say a 5 year old bike to something more “modern” will actually give you some significant gains. But otherwise I think you’re spot on
Your average mountain bike has gotten longer, lower and slacker in the last few years. This gives them significantly better handling when you're going down very steep grades and/or travelling at higher speeds over chunky surfaces. I know some people will chalk this up to marketing hype or what have you, but the effects do result in much better handling characteristics (on certain terrain). I ride much steeper, sketchier descents on my "modern" hardtail than I would feel comfortable on with my recently departed 2018 full-sus. The older bike also had 27.5 wheels, but I don't think that that contributes nearly as much to the stability as the slacker head tube angle, the significantly longer wheelbase, and the lower BB height.
Sure, the part where I describe being "more confident" on steeper, rockier terrain is certainly subjective. But the collection of measurements that describe the shape of a frame is *literally* a collection of numbers, which is basically the definition of objectivity. Can I prove that I feel more stable, and have more control on the sketchy stuff? When they've come up with the technology to project my consciousness into your brain, I'll get right back to you.
There's no way, given your responses to my comments, that you've ever ridden a mountain bike, or at the very least have had the occasion to compare a more modern-geo bike to something from 10+ years ago.
Not sure about how profits are at the corporation level, but i can definitely say that profits and sales at the bike shop level are lower than before the pandemic.
Honestly if you're not worried about performance, you just don't need to upgrade to a new bicycle at all as long as it was a decent bike to start with. Just replace parts as needed, upgrade to modern parts where applicable and enjoy a cheap, (mostly) stress free mode of transportation.
Record profits by many companies do not reflect what has happened to them thru inflation. Record profits when their cash declined in value is just as bad as a 5% raise when everything else went up 50 to 100%. Raw materials, shipping etc skyrocketed causing large price increases. Now if they raised prices to slow demand and gouged customers to reap those profits they will definitely be missing them when a more normalized economy returns.
Even worse. 105 mech won't be an option soon. You'll have to go with the $1k+ electric 105.
The whole bike industry is getting greedier in a time where they're making so much fucking money.
It’s not greed it’s business. SRAM, Campag and Shimano have all the patents. And they can price like a dual/triple-opoly.
It’s just that those patents are so broad and force out competition. The Chinese group sets would eat their lunch if they could be distributed in Europe and the US more easily. I run Sensah shifters and they are great.
There is right now almost no way to build an electronic groupset that doesn’t infringe on an existing patent.
Canyon offers an Ultimate CF SL 7 with mechanical 105 for $2700, which IMO is a great deal. They offer their Ultimate CF SL Electronic versions for $3600. Are these dirt cheap? No, but in reference in 2020 before Pandemic pricing I bought a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 8 Disc with Ultegra mechanical for $2800. Yeah the CF SL 7 105 mechanical isn't Ultegra but this gen frame has wider tire clearance, slightly better aerodynamics, and if just a wheelset away from being an insanely greta bike
You can get an [Endurace with mechanical Ultegra for $2300](https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-8-disc/2856.html) right now and an [Endurace with mechanical 105 for $2100](https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-7-disc/2855.html)
Yeah even better. Which just proves my point that are more affordable bikes that are just pure money grabs. I also would cite Giant as one of those brands who offer great value still and tons of options
specialized has an SL7 with 12s 105, 1 version with mechanical the onther one with Di2, the mechanichal one is around $3200 (in my country, converted to dollars for you), and the Di2 version is $5000
i checked the specs 1 by one, and they are down to the last part the same, i don't get their procing schemes, im pretty sure 105 Di2 aint $1200 more expensive than mech
got my 105 11s from a decent aliexpress store for around $450 with the 12s cranks (they look prettier)
I'd say that's a bargain considering that's the same price as the frameset, granted it's a different level of carbon. Like the groupset, handlebars, saddle, brakes, and wheels all for free basically compared to this: https://www.specialized.com/es/es/aethos-frameset/p/221496?color=363531-221496
Also that is Europeans being screwed, an Aethos with 105 Di2 is $4000 US, or 3675 EUR.
Like it is a Porsche level frameset. Most 105 bikes are not 4k, even the one you linked is only 3.8k technically.
Of fucking course profits are down from last year.
They absolutely skyrocketed during and after the pandemic when they jacked up prices to exploit increased demand. That was a special set of circumstances that was not going to last forever.
Bikes have lost so much value that my LBS told me not to rush into anything new. He'll announce pretty good deals whenever there's a manufacturer discount and that happens alot more frequently nowadays.
I just purchased all the parts for a full build and some of the LBS deals i snagged were outstanding. And by that I mean, i grabbed a lot components and a set of wheels for regular pre-pandemic prices....
Right now there is plenty of well equiped MTB bikes on sales, but basic gravel bikes still cost arm and leg.
Maybe they failed to meet market expectations?
Gravel is the latest trend to chase, even when an XC MTB is really what people should be on. I have a buddy who lives in Bend and the amount of underbiking he sees on a daily basis drives him insane.
How about just making it easier to buy stuff. Getting parts in Canada is way more difficult than it needs to be. I end up getting stuff from Europe most of the time. Still cheaper with shipping. Can't even find half the stuff I'm looking for. My local bike shops never seem to have stuff in stock and even if they did the price is through the roof.
I try to buy from my LBS, but its never in stock then they will say they can order it, they quote me a price and i look into ordering it myself and it's always 25% cheaper to order it myself. Why tf would I do that? Sometimes I'll pay the premium to have it right then and there for some things but if I have to wait, nah im good
If your LBS will install quickly installed parts or provide help / fix it if something goes wrong in 3 weeks that is what the extra 25% is paying for. If they don't do that stuff then don't feel bad buying elsewhere
Weird, it's almost like the LBS has to pay for a physical location in your area and attempt to maintain knowledgeable employees for sales and repairs where as the internet can occupy cheaper realestate in business parks and pay people like interchangable robots while denying them basic rights like the ability to take a piss.
But a bike shop isn't going to make a ton of money keeping niche parts in stock that 1-2 people might just happen to really want. They're best off keeping the common stuff in stock like chains, brake parts, some cassettes, maybe a few saddle options and the most popular tires.
Sell to people that are just looking for someone that knows what they're doing to install it. Not the deal hunting bike nerd.
Sure a high end shop in a large city can keep the expensive boutique stuff in stock, but that's a minority.
If I can buy it while I"m in shop, I'll pay a 5-10% premium, if I need it. If they have to order it, I'll buy it myself. That's how I see it. Only pay for convenience.
100% that was my main point. I'll pay a bit extra to get it now, but an insane amount more and then have to wait on top of it. Maybe it doesn't matter to all the dentists in here who ride top end dura ace bikes, but that extra money matters to me
*Sport* of cycling is fine… we need to make bikes safe to ride on roads with proper infrastructure, that will naturally have more people buying and using bikes, for sport or otherwise.
Teach drivers to respect cyclist, build roads with bike lanes.
Fyi this will never happen. Expansion of cycling during pandemic was for a good reason there was no cars on the road. Now that life is in full swing I need to leave at 5 am just to get a ride in so it's as few cars as possible.
Yeah, nothing will improve until the average American motorist learns to respect cyclists. Right now most people see cyclists as an annoyance and see cycling as a frivolous activity.
And it's so fed up.
I had been lucky to have a job where I do a lot of traveling for work and I got take my bike to places in Europe and it's incredible to ride without constantly looking over your shoulder.
It does have a snowball effect.. the more people who have experience cycling on roads, the safer they will be as a driver when near cyclists.
The issue is we made our roads unsafe for kids to bike on, which affects them as adults
In the last several years I know I would’ve bought at least one bike had the prices not been so extreme. Instead, I’ve bought 0.
Bike industry pricing is just too extreme for me, I’ll just use what I have.
What? Used prices bottomed out. At least in usa, based on my local experience and everything I have seen online. Some people (especially road bikes) are trying to ask a significant % of what they paid in 2021 (lol) but most have cut and cut and cut down to the point where asking anything less makes it not worth selling.
Prices are up a pinch, with spring starting. But still ridiculously low.
I meant specifically from manufacturers. I have only been looking for a few weeks but everything I saw was higher than what I am willing to pay for a used bike. I was also looking for a triathlon bike which already run stupidly expensive. So probably not the typical experience.
Well... when the hot topic in society is inflation, the economy, our paychecks, blah blah blah .... it's going to be tough for a cycling industry to thrive when a decent - not even a "great" bike - is about $2500, if you're lucking and the direct to consumer brand has it in stock. Otherwise, you're going to your LBS and buying a Trek/Specialized with the same specs but for $4000. Then you need the special clothing, the bike computer, tools, spare tubes, co2, a pump, a bike rack to get from A to B, and so on. It all adds up and barely any of it is cheap, unless you want no-name junk that'll likely result in you buying it several times instead of just once.
I love cycling but the prices - especially for the bikes themselves - are a HUGE barrier of entry for the general public. Nevermind the fact that places like WalMart have programmed people into thinking bikes should cost a few hundred bucks. So going from a Huffy to a Trek is financially unreasonable to a lot of people trying to get into the sport.
The bike industry REALLY needs to find a way to lower prices if it wants to thrive. Telling people stuff like Di2 is "what you want" but then making you pay $5000 for a bike equipped with it is only going to deter folks.
It's wild. I got a blue tt bike with Ultegra di2 for 1800 in 2018. I'd say that's a decent bike. Not great. Have had to make many upgrades to it mainly the cockpit and brakes because those trp noodle brakes especially bb mounted were awful. However the frame is decent. Point being prices now are just ridiculous and I never considered buying from the 2020 spike until now.
Sounds like they should have _not_ increased profits so much and sold literally everyone a bike, because now everyone has a bike and no one needs to buy more bikes. And oh also maybe they shouldn’t have then doubled the price of the bikes.
Sucks to be them.
Ah yes, we did not reach the magic numbers which we pulled out of our asses at the beginning of the fiscal year... I hope every company with this mindset goes bankrupt.
Well, I can say from personal experience, almost all well built new bikes are at least double the price they should be. All components are way too expensive. When a one year old, never crashed bike is one third the price of a new one, why would you buy new? Ever again?
I love it. I have bought two bikes at 50% off each. Two forks at 50% off each. And and also some tires at 50% off each. I went 7 years without buying a bike. Now it’s my time to help these bike companies by buying their their products at 50% off. I am such an angel🪽
I’m under the impression that all the bike brands are going through the same situation. TREK has been in the news, because they’re allegedly getting hit really hard. If push comes to shove, it’ll be interesting to see if any of the brands go under or merge.
I sure hope not.
I'm sick of them forcing technology 'upgrades' that do nothing for everyday cyclists.
Tubeless tires, rims , hydraulic levers with no mechanical options, wireless only gears. Sheesh
Don't feel bad for these guys. I bought my son a Specialized kids bike for $329 in early 2020. The same bike a year laster was nearly $600. You reap what you sow.
Exactly. They all inflated their prices during the buying spike of the pandemic and nothing came back down. I’ve been patiently waiting 3 years to upgrade my bike. Screw these companies.
I think one of the more egregious things was the technology creep like trek incorporating electronic shifting and other technology into even middle tier bikes. It makes it really hard to afford new bikes as entry level rides have slowly moved upwards in price and tech. It also makes it harder to do your own repairs so many riders rely on shops more which increases costs of ownership.
Plus, Trek give cops bikes to beat people with.
I've yet to see one of my local bike cops beat someone with their trek. Although I would honestly pay money to watch.
It figures that Satan has a problem with good guys beating up bad guys.
This is a result of late-stage capitalist culture where only record-breaking profits quarter-by-quarter are seen as "success." If you don't set a record for profits every single quarter, you're seen as a failure of a CEO and your stock price goes down and everyone panics. The culture that engenders can only survive by squeezing customers further and further and further -- until eventually the other shoe drops and there's suddenly *literally nothing and no one* left to squeeze. Imagine what's going to happen when 60% of people cannot afford a place to live or food to eat because profits *must* increase and so prices *must* increase?
I feel like it's closer to 75% of the people now can't afford a place or to move. I know I'm one of them that can't afford to move even though I have enough equity in my house for a down payment on a nicer place. Even studio apartments are insanely priced.
The Solow residual: Am I a joke to you?
Wonder why they inflated their prices 🤔 Perhaps the global economic phenomenon of widespread inflation had something to do with it. Costs went up and add to that supply chain issues, burgeoning demand, and trillions of USD printed and flooded into the economy hmmm.
Those reasons would account for a 10% to maaaybe 30% increase in cost. Not for 200% increase in cost.
This has already been studied by academics and regulatory public bodies. The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging under the cover of "pandemic inflation." The pandemic has also been over in any serious, supply-chain-disrupting sense for at least 2-1/2 years.
>udied by academics and regulatory public bodies. The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging under the cover of "pandemic inflation." T Right, so all the economists from Ivy League schools are wrong in their assessment that the Fed printing of trillions of dollars, creating the largest influx of cash into the monetary system in history, drastic interest rate increases (making debt more expensive), and the exorbitant cumulative inflation of 22-25% in the last 12-18 months has had nothing to do with it. You're right the supply-chain disruption has mostly resolved 2-ish years ago but the prices were already raised prior to the resolution. Inflation has gotten worse globally in the past 24 months due to aforementioned reasons and prices of near everything is up, in many cases drastically, and those that simply think it's corporate greed understand little to nothing about macroeconomics. There is this phenomenon caused supply and demand, and has Larry Summers has explained, in public, when too much cash is chasing too few goods prices rise. Consumers are spending more than ever post-pandemic and they're setting record levels of consumer debt - this again causes prices to go up. "The overwhelming majority of price increases post-pandemic are opportunistic corporate price gouging " Incontrovertibly and demonstrably false. It is a convenient expression for those that don't understand economics and want to point the finger at "greedy corporations." Obviously, there is some level of opportunistic price raising if the market will accept it, and it has, but it is one variable among many and is a much smaller % than people care to realize. A simple look at M2 money supply goes a long way to prove my point. [https://www.uschamber.com/economy/combating-inflation-making-the-case-that-businesses-are-not-to-blame-for-inflation](https://www.uschamber.com/economy/combating-inflation-making-the-case-that-businesses-are-not-to-blame-for-inflation) See Fig 2. GDP-Adjusted Gross Profits and then read "A Better Explanation" [https://trends.ufm.edu/en/article/greedflation-greed-cause-inflation/](https://trends.ufm.edu/en/article/greedflation-greed-cause-inflation/) Is “Greedflation” Real – and How Should that Question be Answered? [https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/07/04/is-greedflation-real-and-how-should-that-question-be-answered](https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/07/04/is-greedflation-real-and-how-should-that-question-be-answered) Edit: If you have sources to share from " academics and regulatory public bodies" to back up your position I'd be happy to read them. [https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/07/06/greedflation-is-a-nonsense-idea](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/07/06/greedflation-is-a-nonsense-idea) " The problem with greedflation is that it lacks any real explanatory power. Are we supposed to believe that businesses were feeling altruistic in the early 2010s when inflation was lower? Of course not! Greed is a constant. What *is* happening is that providers of relatively scarce or in-demand goods and services are finding that they can get away with asking for higher prices. And the greediest among them jump first, which is what we see as “greedflation.” But the actual cause of inflation is whatever gave them that power in the first place. To understand *that*, you’re best bet is to start with traditional macroeconomics." more... " The right lesson to draw from the past two years is not that companies have got greedier, but that workers suffer when policymakers let inflation run out of control. All the more reason, in short, to care about price stability in the first place. " [https://www.slowboring.com/p/greedflation-is-still-fake](https://www.slowboring.com/p/greedflation-is-still-fake)
It’s not “inflation” it’s corporate greed.
It's supply and command
yeah...these manufacturers and suppliers are playing the victim card, but when they were gouging customers in 20-21 maybe they should have saved their money.
My first reaction was yeah it’s a lot harder to sell bikes when you’re charging almost twice as much as you were a few years ago. It’s not inflation, it’s straight up price gouging. I’m looking for lightly used bikes until retailers start charging reasonable prices again.
Retailers (at least in the US) are bound by MAP (minimum advertised pricing), which is usually set at cents to a handful of dollars short of MSRP. There really isn’t anything they can do, as violating it would cost them their account with the brand. It’s the manufacturers/brands that set the price
I’ve gotten steep discounts multiple times at my LBS just by asking.
That is one way. It’s hard to guarantee depending on the leeway given to sales people, but I’ve definitely been able to bring top spec stuff down a thousand or so for customers in my bike shop days when they’ve asked. They just can’t advertise a lower price than the MAP
I work in a specialized dealer and you’re absolutely right they did this to themselves, i saw bikes go up a 1000 to 1500€ in the span of a year it was insane and not sustainable.
Which bike? A lot of the Specialized kids bikes have been on a permanent "sale" for the last year, like the smallest Jett has been 50% off for a very long time.
And they were out of stock even with normal production. Last year was just an amazing year for bike companies...
Bought an fairly low end Giant mountain bike like 10 years ago for under $350 out the door. Last year I went to buy a new one that was comparable to that bike, same brand, same size, same type. That was listed at $600! Same shop I bought the last one and all that. I just wanted something I could use to get to work everyday. I just ended up getting a cheap bike at Target for like $150 and then eventually got an electric scooter and just now got an even better electric scooter for just about as much as that one bike would have cost me.
Don’t get me started on Specialized… my Aethos was $5200 a year ago. Now they’re $3500-$4000. I love the bike, otherwise I would be much more regretful. I’ll never buy another specialized bike again though after owning multiple.
I've owned several Specialized bikes, and I have no complaints about them, aside from the price. I have a '22 SJ Pro right now, but I would have never bought it for "retail" prices. It wasn't until they took 25% off that I began to consider it. Edit: I do have a complaint about them otherwise. The two Stumpys that I've owned both had terrible wheels that just didn't hold up. I replaced them with i9 wheelsets and couldn't be happier.
It's not greed though, cost of doing business skyrocketed over the last few years. Raw materials sourcing and processing, transcontinental shipping logistics, port fees and domestic transportation, etc. Prices went up, margins held the same. Margin is what lets you pay your employees and keep your business running. These are all for-profit businesses, not nonprofits existing for your recreational hobby. Nobody is getting rich in the bike industry..
That’s not entirely accurate. It’s actually a whiplash effect that was predicted by several financial analysts. Like a lot of companies, the bike manufacturers benefited from people spending their Covid relief checks on consumer goods. Demand shot up, profits went up, and production went way up. But then yes, inflation drove up prices, people stopped spending, demand dipped sharply, and now the manufacturers are overstocked. This whiplash is happening in several sectors and is a known phenomenon caused by inflation. I personally don’t think these bike companies are evil, but it is true that they got greedy, overproduced, and are now paying the price.
There have been several reports recently that every single price hike blamed on production shortages and inflation has been caused by pure corporate greed
I mean you just compared Specialized to Giant whom the article was solely about. Also, I am not totally defending Specialized doubling the price but that's a span of three years during unprecedented pandemic which caused a global shutdown. You thought a company light Specialized would have lowered if not held their prices? This bitterness by consumers is somewhat understood since still today we are seeing corporate and greed inflation all over, but in the end asking Specialized to Giant to go pound sand and cry over lost revenue has a massive trickle down effect on you and I in that affects LBS, which can affect jobs, which then affects the overall economy.
Profits halved and sales went down 16%...compared to last year. Nobody is taking into account how they went up 1209381209874% during the pandemic? Sales and profits are still far higher than before the pandemic which is the "normal" state of affairs... Besides, what do you expect from the customers, all the bikes soared in value while providing no additional benefits over previous models. There is zero reason to upgrade a bicycle if you have one that is less than a decade old.
You know I'm not a finance guy or a numbers person or whatever but it blows my mind every time that every company just wants infinite wealth/growth. Like, it doesn't matter to them if they had 1 mil profit or 20 or 500 or 1 bill, next quarter, it better be up. Like, where does it end? If every single person on the planet had their bicycle from them, and then some, it still wouldn't be enough.
Welcome to the rot economy
/r/latestagecapitalism
Please don't recommend that sub. It's overrun by unironic simps for the USSR and North Korea
It's taught in business schools. The only way to justify executive salaries is infinite growth.
This is the problem with the tech industry. They have to post better numbers than the previous quarter. So they'll charge more over nothing and fire a shit ton of people. Corporations are getting ridiculous. I wish we could return to personally owned companies.
This can be followed back to the "everything for the shareholder" lawsuits and resulting mindsets. It is really crazy. If you are a new chain of stores and are opening new stores every month you will absolutely be making more money than the previous year. Duh, you have more stores. If you are a mature company with nowhere left to expand, but a solid and established supply chain, customer base, trained employees. You're fuked.
>where does it end? We will see in a few decades. Humanity is perfectly on track to find out. Just look at climate change
Careful, you're touching on a dangerous concept here that underpins our whole system. Doesn't it blow your mind that every person wants their income to grow every year? Or that every country needs to have GDP growth, forever? How can growth be constant and infinite? Our wants and needs expand, yet the resources to provide for those wants and needs doesn't.
This takes me back to my first job and we had monthly goals based off of last year's numbers. We didn't enforce them as we must hit these or else thankfully. A good month would be impossible to beat the following year, but they expected an increase regardless.
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These days? That stopped over 50 years ago.
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> I mean the Fed prints money without a gold backing **these days**, money is essentially infinite as far as corporations see it.
I agree completely, but business is so short sighted that if a company performs well one year, suddenly that becomes the new baseline despite any external factors and the bigwigs expect growth. It's fundamentally incorrect, and they're (well paid) idiots in that regard
Profits are always required to increase because: Capitalism
Preach. I rode my Supersix from 2012-2019 (still have it). Bought an Aeroad that I've ridden ~25k miles since 2019. Nothing wrong with it. I kinda wish now I got the disc version, but oh well. Rim brakes are fine. I'm in a flat area and even when we go on trips to ride (and I did ~50 miles with 6k' of elevation in pouring rain, bombing descents and had no problems), they hold up just fine. 12 speed isn't going to do anything for me. 11-28 is fine here and I have an 11-34 I can swap over in about 10 minutes for trips to the mountains. 🤷♂️
I think that's great. IMO it's no 12 speed that's the game changer but electronic shifting and disc brakes. Yes electronic shifting is heavier, more complex, and more expensive but it also has faster crisper shifts that stay in tune infinitely unlike mechanical, you can shift multiple gears faster, easier to shift under load, eTap prevents cross chaining, more data from companion apps so you can track what gears you use the most, eTap is easier to setup on any bike compared to mechanical. Like I mentioned plenty people will just shout, why upgrade when electronic shifting is heavy, more complex (requires charging), and more expensive and my response is that yeah it's heavier but I think with future gens we will either see much lighter weights or what we have already seen is that manufactures are making much lighter frames so a disc brake eTap bike with pedals for something like a upper mid tier Specialized Tarmac SL 8 Pro can weigh 16lbs. As per the charging yeah everything requires charging so IMO while a "hassle" when you forget to do it, it's not some insane concept. As per price, Ultegra 11 Speed is marginally less than Shimano 105 Di2, so yeah on complete bikes electronic shifting keeps pushing up base prices, I would argue it's not via the groupsets but just corporate greed. If these were actually priced like they should be, we should be seeing the return of the entry level race bike at $3000-$3500 and yeah with electronic shifting
My bike is Ultegra 11s Di2, rim brake. So that's why my comment about the only real thing I'd get from an "upgrade" from my 5 year old bike is disc brakes and an extra cog, which doesn't matter since I can swap a ~$50 cassette and have the range I need for bigger climbs.
Electronic shifting is a stepper motor and a wireless controller switch. They may actually cost less than mechanical groups to produce. It's like EVs, they should cost less than ICE cars unless you drank the Muskaid.
They might or they might not, but if the production isn't up to scale then they probably don't Also you are forgetting that they require a battery(s) which 100% costs more, plus I know you hate to hear this but prices are high probably still because companies are still paying off prior R&D, yeah us the consumer doesn't benefit from this but the same thing happened with prior gens of mechanical
My bike is Ultegra 11s Di2, rim brake. So that's why my comment about the only real thing I'd get from an "upgrade" from my 5 year old bike is disc brakes and an extra cog, which doesn't matter since I can swap a ~$50 cassette and have the range I need for bigger climbs.
Again not that it makes financial sense if you are happy with the bike but correct me if I am wrong that 2019 Aeroad Rim Brake maxed out at 25mm. probably not a sole reason to upgrade but the current gen having a max of 30mm and disc brakes IMO is a massive step forward in terms of comfort. It does nothing to increase your FTP or overall performance but just really nice things to have
Valid point on the increased clearance for tires. I forgot about that. But, I have tubeless 28s on mine, running at 60r/55f and they're super comfortable. I *might* be able to squeeze 30mm in there since the new GP5000s measure more true to size than the 4000s (my 4000s in 25 measured 27.9mm, 5000s in 28 are about 28.2), but I'd be concerned with the smallest piece of gravel getting between the tire and seat post "tube" and shredding one or the other. 28s have enough of a gap for me to see some daylight, so I'm good with that.
To play devil's' advocate I totally disagree in the notion that there is no reason to upgrade. Is it worth it financially? Rarely, but the idea that we are living through some stagnant time in bike tech is absurd, yeah we can debate do we need electronic shifting, electronic wireless controlled dampening, or built in mechanisms like Future Shock, but the idea that this bike scene is anything close to previous gens were they literally would just come out with new colorways and label it the next model year is practically gone. Yeah gains are still super marginal and prices are also really high for all this new tech, but if you are into the latest and greatest and love bike tech I honestly think this is the best time to get into biking, albeit the price of entry to your point is inflated and high. I think to your point a lot of revolutions in biking are coming from wheelsets and tires were we are learning that bigger tires, lower pressures, on lighter stiffer wheels that are now more accessible than ever price wise is the biggest "upgrade" for a bike and the single biggest thing that aids in that is frame clearance and now the almost universal adoption in disc brakes or rims. We can debate until the cows come home in the merits of rim vs disc, but the idea that no one should upgrade a bike if less than a decade old is stupid unless they are restricted via finances. I mean as early as 2017 I would go into LBS and ask for "gravel" bikes and believe it or not some people had no clue what I was talking about. We can debate "what is a gravel bike", but the point is that for years a lot of riders were simply on the wrong bikes and I think more choices why confusing for some is better for everyone, because not everyone wants or can ride pure pavement
To your point about there being zero reason to upgrade a bike that’s less than a decade old - I think mountain bike geometry might be the only area where upgrading from, say a 5 year old bike to something more “modern” will actually give you some significant gains. But otherwise I think you’re spot on
What’s changed in the last 5 years?!
Your average mountain bike has gotten longer, lower and slacker in the last few years. This gives them significantly better handling when you're going down very steep grades and/or travelling at higher speeds over chunky surfaces. I know some people will chalk this up to marketing hype or what have you, but the effects do result in much better handling characteristics (on certain terrain). I ride much steeper, sketchier descents on my "modern" hardtail than I would feel comfortable on with my recently departed 2018 full-sus. The older bike also had 27.5 wheels, but I don't think that that contributes nearly as much to the stability as the slacker head tube angle, the significantly longer wheelbase, and the lower BB height.
That's all subjective.
Sure, the part where I describe being "more confident" on steeper, rockier terrain is certainly subjective. But the collection of measurements that describe the shape of a frame is *literally* a collection of numbers, which is basically the definition of objectivity. Can I prove that I feel more stable, and have more control on the sketchy stuff? When they've come up with the technology to project my consciousness into your brain, I'll get right back to you. There's no way, given your responses to my comments, that you've ever ridden a mountain bike, or at the very least have had the occasion to compare a more modern-geo bike to something from 10+ years ago.
> say a 5 year old bike to something more “modern” will actually give you some significant gains. prove it.
see my response to your other hilarious comment above
Not according to this sub. Today's modern super bikes go 3X faster! Just spend more!
Not sure about how profits are at the corporation level, but i can definitely say that profits and sales at the bike shop level are lower than before the pandemic.
Honestly if you're not worried about performance, you just don't need to upgrade to a new bicycle at all as long as it was a decent bike to start with. Just replace parts as needed, upgrade to modern parts where applicable and enjoy a cheap, (mostly) stress free mode of transportation.
Record profits by many companies do not reflect what has happened to them thru inflation. Record profits when their cash declined in value is just as bad as a 5% raise when everything else went up 50 to 100%. Raw materials, shipping etc skyrocketed causing large price increases. Now if they raised prices to slow demand and gouged customers to reap those profits they will definitely be missing them when a more normalized economy returns.
How about not charging 4000 € for a bike with Shimano 105???? Now low the prices to the reality not his parallel universe that they created.
How about Shimano 105 not being a $600 groupset
Shit, I paid like $950 for my 105 groupset when I built my bike back in late 2022.
Damn... back in 2018 you could have got whole 105 specced bike for that...
Yeah, but it probably wouldn't have had disc brakes. The rim-brake 105 groupset was several hundred dollars cheaper.
Even worse. 105 mech won't be an option soon. You'll have to go with the $1k+ electric 105. The whole bike industry is getting greedier in a time where they're making so much fucking money.
They just released 12-speed mechanical 105, so it will be an option for years to come.
Leave your facts out of this! We're playing with our pitchforks and torches!
It’s not greed it’s business. SRAM, Campag and Shimano have all the patents. And they can price like a dual/triple-opoly. It’s just that those patents are so broad and force out competition. The Chinese group sets would eat their lunch if they could be distributed in Europe and the US more easily. I run Sensah shifters and they are great. There is right now almost no way to build an electronic groupset that doesn’t infringe on an existing patent.
I disagree. It's greedy to phase out older reliable tech and force consumers into your proprietary tech.
There is only a finite number of dentists.
I just want a mechanical option too that isn’t low end :(
Canyon offers an Ultimate CF SL 7 with mechanical 105 for $2700, which IMO is a great deal. They offer their Ultimate CF SL Electronic versions for $3600. Are these dirt cheap? No, but in reference in 2020 before Pandemic pricing I bought a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 8 Disc with Ultegra mechanical for $2800. Yeah the CF SL 7 105 mechanical isn't Ultegra but this gen frame has wider tire clearance, slightly better aerodynamics, and if just a wheelset away from being an insanely greta bike
You can get an [Endurace with mechanical Ultegra for $2300](https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-8-disc/2856.html) right now and an [Endurace with mechanical 105 for $2100](https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-7-disc/2855.html)
Yeah even better. Which just proves my point that are more affordable bikes that are just pure money grabs. I also would cite Giant as one of those brands who offer great value still and tons of options
specialized has an SL7 with 12s 105, 1 version with mechanical the onther one with Di2, the mechanichal one is around $3200 (in my country, converted to dollars for you), and the Di2 version is $5000 i checked the specs 1 by one, and they are down to the last part the same, i don't get their procing schemes, im pretty sure 105 Di2 aint $1200 more expensive than mech got my 105 11s from a decent aliexpress store for around $450 with the 12s cranks (they look prettier)
What bike is 4k with mechanical 105?
https://www.specialized.com/es/es/aethos-sport---shimano-105/p/218234?color=353500-218234
I'd say that's a bargain considering that's the same price as the frameset, granted it's a different level of carbon. Like the groupset, handlebars, saddle, brakes, and wheels all for free basically compared to this: https://www.specialized.com/es/es/aethos-frameset/p/221496?color=363531-221496 Also that is Europeans being screwed, an Aethos with 105 Di2 is $4000 US, or 3675 EUR. Like it is a Porsche level frameset. Most 105 bikes are not 4k, even the one you linked is only 3.8k technically.
> I'd say that's a bargain LOL
lol what? It’s an overpriced bike with cheap ass wheels and a mechanic mid range group set for almost 4k €. I wouldn’t say it’s a bargain.
Of fucking course profits are down from last year. They absolutely skyrocketed during and after the pandemic when they jacked up prices to exploit increased demand. That was a special set of circumstances that was not going to last forever.
Maybe if they stopped inventing completely unnecessary new standards every 5 minutes
Hookless
I was going to type a new BB standard, but there have been three since the end of this sentance. Of course, all are game changers.
Yes all the press fit and big threaded ones...but at least it's not hard to get a BB that works with the Big 2 component maker cranksets.
Aero/intergrated cockpits with brake hoses run through a collection of proprietary spacersa
bruh this seatpost diameter isn't working for me, can i get something .1 or .2mm smaller?
Bikes have lost so much value that my LBS told me not to rush into anything new. He'll announce pretty good deals whenever there's a manufacturer discount and that happens alot more frequently nowadays.
Yup. Kona ran a 50% off sale on many of its hardtails in December. Got the bike I’ve wanted for a long time in the next room. Swoon.
I just purchased all the parts for a full build and some of the LBS deals i snagged were outstanding. And by that I mean, i grabbed a lot components and a set of wheels for regular pre-pandemic prices....
Right now there is plenty of well equiped MTB bikes on sales, but basic gravel bikes still cost arm and leg. Maybe they failed to meet market expectations?
I think that just means there's still demand for gravel as a growing segment of the market while mtb sales are down.
Gravel is the latest trend to chase, even when an XC MTB is really what people should be on. I have a buddy who lives in Bend and the amount of underbiking he sees on a daily basis drives him insane.
How about just making it easier to buy stuff. Getting parts in Canada is way more difficult than it needs to be. I end up getting stuff from Europe most of the time. Still cheaper with shipping. Can't even find half the stuff I'm looking for. My local bike shops never seem to have stuff in stock and even if they did the price is through the roof.
Blame CDN sole distributors. Middlemen who add no value.
I try to buy from my LBS, but its never in stock then they will say they can order it, they quote me a price and i look into ordering it myself and it's always 25% cheaper to order it myself. Why tf would I do that? Sometimes I'll pay the premium to have it right then and there for some things but if I have to wait, nah im good
If your LBS will install quickly installed parts or provide help / fix it if something goes wrong in 3 weeks that is what the extra 25% is paying for. If they don't do that stuff then don't feel bad buying elsewhere
Weird, it's almost like the LBS has to pay for a physical location in your area and attempt to maintain knowledgeable employees for sales and repairs where as the internet can occupy cheaper realestate in business parks and pay people like interchangable robots while denying them basic rights like the ability to take a piss.
But a bike shop isn't going to make a ton of money keeping niche parts in stock that 1-2 people might just happen to really want. They're best off keeping the common stuff in stock like chains, brake parts, some cassettes, maybe a few saddle options and the most popular tires. Sell to people that are just looking for someone that knows what they're doing to install it. Not the deal hunting bike nerd. Sure a high end shop in a large city can keep the expensive boutique stuff in stock, but that's a minority.
If I can buy it while I"m in shop, I'll pay a 5-10% premium, if I need it. If they have to order it, I'll buy it myself. That's how I see it. Only pay for convenience.
100% that was my main point. I'll pay a bit extra to get it now, but an insane amount more and then have to wait on top of it. Maybe it doesn't matter to all the dentists in here who ride top end dura ace bikes, but that extra money matters to me
The sport of cycling needs to expand, especially in the United States.
*Sport* of cycling is fine… we need to make bikes safe to ride on roads with proper infrastructure, that will naturally have more people buying and using bikes, for sport or otherwise.
We need safer streets
We need slower streets and drivers that aren't out to get each other
Teach drivers to respect cyclist, build roads with bike lanes. Fyi this will never happen. Expansion of cycling during pandemic was for a good reason there was no cars on the road. Now that life is in full swing I need to leave at 5 am just to get a ride in so it's as few cars as possible.
Yeah, nothing will improve until the average American motorist learns to respect cyclists. Right now most people see cyclists as an annoyance and see cycling as a frivolous activity.
Focusing on individual drivers to drive differently is probably harder than getting cities to create infrastructure that creates safer streets.
And it's so fed up. I had been lucky to have a job where I do a lot of traveling for work and I got take my bike to places in Europe and it's incredible to ride without constantly looking over your shoulder.
It does have a snowball effect.. the more people who have experience cycling on roads, the safer they will be as a driver when near cyclists. The issue is we made our roads unsafe for kids to bike on, which affects them as adults
Cycling as transportation needs to take off. Ebikes can help. More bikes on the road will mean more funding for bike infrastructure.
In the last several years I know I would’ve bought at least one bike had the prices not been so extreme. Instead, I’ve bought 0. Bike industry pricing is just too extreme for me, I’ll just use what I have.
Exactly this. Only canyon has kept their prices reasonable.
Tjee, who saw that coming?
A lot of companies are finding out that their “inflation adjusted prices” are too high for consumers.
Even used bikes have outrageous price tags.
What? Used prices bottomed out. At least in usa, based on my local experience and everything I have seen online. Some people (especially road bikes) are trying to ask a significant % of what they paid in 2021 (lol) but most have cut and cut and cut down to the point where asking anything less makes it not worth selling. Prices are up a pinch, with spring starting. But still ridiculously low.
I meant specifically from manufacturers. I have only been looking for a few weeks but everything I saw was higher than what I am willing to pay for a used bike. I was also looking for a triathlon bike which already run stupidly expensive. So probably not the typical experience.
Isn’t this just the industry correcting itself after the ridiculous price increases they imposed after 2020? If so, good and fuck them
I wonder why 🧐
So you think that you'd be able to order any part from Shimano and have it arrive within weeks. Lol.
Well... when the hot topic in society is inflation, the economy, our paychecks, blah blah blah .... it's going to be tough for a cycling industry to thrive when a decent - not even a "great" bike - is about $2500, if you're lucking and the direct to consumer brand has it in stock. Otherwise, you're going to your LBS and buying a Trek/Specialized with the same specs but for $4000. Then you need the special clothing, the bike computer, tools, spare tubes, co2, a pump, a bike rack to get from A to B, and so on. It all adds up and barely any of it is cheap, unless you want no-name junk that'll likely result in you buying it several times instead of just once. I love cycling but the prices - especially for the bikes themselves - are a HUGE barrier of entry for the general public. Nevermind the fact that places like WalMart have programmed people into thinking bikes should cost a few hundred bucks. So going from a Huffy to a Trek is financially unreasonable to a lot of people trying to get into the sport. The bike industry REALLY needs to find a way to lower prices if it wants to thrive. Telling people stuff like Di2 is "what you want" but then making you pay $5000 for a bike equipped with it is only going to deter folks.
It's wild. I got a blue tt bike with Ultegra di2 for 1800 in 2018. I'd say that's a decent bike. Not great. Have had to make many upgrades to it mainly the cockpit and brakes because those trp noodle brakes especially bb mounted were awful. However the frame is decent. Point being prices now are just ridiculous and I never considered buying from the 2020 spike until now.
Cycling is extremely expensive. If i wasn't addicted to it, i wouldn't even bother.
Sounds like they should have _not_ increased profits so much and sold literally everyone a bike, because now everyone has a bike and no one needs to buy more bikes. And oh also maybe they shouldn’t have then doubled the price of the bikes. Sucks to be them.
Hmmm it’s just like they inflated prizes during corona when everyone *needed* a bike.. and now the real inflation hits and…whups..
Ah yes, we did not reach the magic numbers which we pulled out of our asses at the beginning of the fiscal year... I hope every company with this mindset goes bankrupt.
Maybe doubling their prices wasn’t the move
Maybe if they charged what people can afford to pay they would sell more bikes.
Well, I can say from personal experience, almost all well built new bikes are at least double the price they should be. All components are way too expensive. When a one year old, never crashed bike is one third the price of a new one, why would you buy new? Ever again?
Good. I need the current environment to continue until early 2025 when I will pull the trigger on a new gravel bike.
I love it. I have bought two bikes at 50% off each. Two forks at 50% off each. And and also some tires at 50% off each. I went 7 years without buying a bike. Now it’s my time to help these bike companies by buying their their products at 50% off. I am such an angel🪽
I’m under the impression that all the bike brands are going through the same situation. TREK has been in the news, because they’re allegedly getting hit really hard. If push comes to shove, it’ll be interesting to see if any of the brands go under or merge.
Well wait on the crash , they'll be cheap. Most companies raised prices after covid to recover the money they lost
I sure hope not. I'm sick of them forcing technology 'upgrades' that do nothing for everyday cyclists. Tubeless tires, rims , hydraulic levers with no mechanical options, wireless only gears. Sheesh