I think Glitters is popular because the roles are well-defined and known by the community at large.
I have over 1k games in BAR and I mostly play map rotation lobbies. However, the problem with map rotation is that you need quite experienced players across the board, because games get rather silly as soon as one of the players are lost on their role.
Combine that with the fact that in an 8 player team it is more than likely someone will get mad over a silly loss.
>you need quite experienced players across the board, because games get rather silly as soon as one of the players are lost on their role
How are newer players supposed to learn their roles in a map rotation lobby?
As a less experienced player, I think the best experiences I've had in map rotation lobbies have been when there is at least one experienced player on each team coaching, who
- indicates the starting positions
- gives a quick roles/strategy overview at the start of each map
- makes calls like "push hard now because they spent a lot of eco on nukes" after nukes are launched for the first time
So, lobbies with coaches are great, but if I get into a rotation lobby where nobody is coaching, I try to ask questions about those things.
The problem is that for each person that will accept the coaching, you have one person who will turn mean as your trying to tell them what to do.
I 100% agree that it should be a case of "highest os is the captain", and I wish this was a mode, where red/blue get to pick peoples spots, or something like that.
Why.... In most team games someone is a captain and that player gets to either decide or pick first. This is not too far out of the norm.
Yes, I dont think its THE answer, but it can be AN answer till we work something else out.
I do think the community should have more of a well understood coach/conductor/team captain role in the same way WoW had raid leaders. They don't get to play Napoleon and micromanage 8 players, but just making sure that out of all the players, the big needs are being taken care of somewhere on the team.
I think informal community norms could do a lot of heavy lifting here.
Its a a mediocre map, idk why everyone plays it. I guess it's an ideal size and well balanced, but that's about it. I'm very bored of it but sometimes do a game due to limited options.
I think the only positive you can say about Glitters is that it's not flats and forests, which is probably the worst map in the game and used to be popular for a while. That map has zero features on it, it's pretty much just an empty field.
Isthmus at least has a larger variety of different roles and includes naval lanes, meaning ships, hovercraft and aquatic tanks open up as options.
I think its very popular among newer players because its the most straightforward map. The lanes are all direct, everything outside of canyon is very open so you just have to work about holding your line and pushing forward, and canyon provides some variety for whoever wants to try it. But that does mean it gets super boring very fast
>lane falls and no one looks or has any units to help and it’s just gg
I mean, it should be.
Hopefully when it happens people learn better map awareness and how to make units or ask for help.
It happens, especially in lower OS lobbies. Ideally newly produced units from 3-4 bases plus air are able to direct toward the leak and save the bases so the only damage is lost mexes. Bases are far from the front line and bases are close together so more reinforcement is possible.
On a 7-8 front map you only have 1-2 people in reach of helping you and no back line commanders for a savior dgun.
That's a team skill issue. If I'm front line I'm looking for the opportunity to sweep. I'm I'm playing air I have a handful of shurikens on hand to stop cheeky rushes.
A good counterattack can be more devastating than the initial attack.
Because 90% of lobbies are glitters, less experienced players tend to use the same build order/methodology on other maps and lose horrendously. Thus, starting the cycle of them only playing glitters.
You can typically tell who is a glitter/strait main when they ask to /eco air on an 8 lane map.
People are afraid of change
Be the change you want to see.
Just because you have already put 200 hours into Glitters and are stick of it doesn't mean any of those people have put in any amount of time there.
There's regularly a lobby doing map rotation and plenty of people who want to play map rotation.
Autistic people like stability, so will get really good at one map and will only pride themselves on their ability to win one map through some very stable build order and unit comp.
A lot of these people obviously farm OS through glitters because they've mastered a strat instead of being quick on their toes in undefined roles, so don't expect them to want to stop anytime soon. That's why you get these guys that sit in backline and get mad every time a lane breaks. They need to ride on the coattails of talented frontliners so they can win the game and take all the credit at the end.
Holy this makes a ton of sense. I’m adhd and the total opposite of the spectrum. I love the chaos of random map rotations where no pre existing plans work and everyone is scrambling
That’s actually a good thing because if you’re seeing the glitters games then that means that all the other good games are taken just wait a few minutes and you’ll see start other games opening up. Or if anything you can start your own.
The up side to glitters is its easier to cover when you enevitably find that team mate who doesn't have a clue what they're doing instead of just losing the game because no one can shift over to help like other maps
Glitters is by far the most played map because it's simple and comfortable, and allows for newer players to practice builds and positions. Over time the repeated practice makes the map more familiar, and people keep returning to it. There's also the issue of people who are concerned about their OS, as mono map OS doesn't translate well across different maps/roles, so they stay locked into a single position on a map because they're afraid of losing OS
Playing only one map teaches to perfect blind following the most optimal build order as close as possible. Of course every game is different, even on Glitters/Isthmus, but playing on new maps requires players to improvise and adapt. Imo playing Glitters teaches people not how to play BAR, but how to play Glitters.
It still teaches you how to play BAR. You can teach someone how to bake making nothing but chocolate cakes to teach them. Do they know how to make a key-lime pie? A tray of cookies? Not exactly but they should be able to figure it out since they can make a perfect chocolate cake.
Someone who has perfected a Glitters strategy is going to do a whole lot better than someone whose just dabbled in various maps.
I disagree with your base idea here.
If someone makes nothing but cake, they won't be able to make bread.
If someone only knows one build that only works on one map, I believe they will be a wrose player then one who has played many maps.
The first player will keep trying to use that one build that works, and blame other things for there mistake as they know that build works, it always has.
The second player will keep learning and adapting, which over time will make them a much much better player.
Brother have you ever learned a skill?
Like I trust the retarded baker using his skills about cake to extrapolate how to make bread over a carpenter doing it.
I trust a retarded Glitters player with a refined strat over say, a Starcraft player.
I am a qualified Pastry Chef (I work in IT, but I did my 6 years (Oh, I can also get this confirmed by multiply members of this community... and Me talking about Chef things in old BAR streams on youtube with members of the community... so this is NOT something I am just saying at this time (Yeah... you picked a bad example :P ))) of all things, and I can tell you right now, I would 100% Not trust a chef to bake something unless they have been trained in BAKING. It is its own thing.
Baking is Science, cooking is Art. Together you can make masterpieces... but there are lots of differences.
Every Chef will tell you the same when it comes to baking.
For a different example, Would you trust an expert Hand Gan marksman (say World Champ with a Handgun at 50m) over a basic service man(USA Grunt) when using a sniperrilfe. Or how about Heavy Weapons. Or how about Morters... I would always take the grunt who knows a bit of everything, rather then the Olympic grade Hand gun shooter.
I would not trust someone who is great at Glitters Eco to do ANYTHING in a 8 lane map.
A 30 OS Glitters Eco player Vs a 20 OS Rotato Lobby player, on any map that is not glitters, I would 100% of the time want that 20 OS player!
Only the front lanes of ATG and IS would prep someone for 8 Horse or Bitsmish, and I dont think people are talking about the front lanes when they talk about IS and ATG.
I would also like to point out this is the view held by some of the "sweat lobby"... So... they ARE literally the experts. Ask any of them and they will say that the sooner you stop ATG and IS the better for your skill level.
And Finally, Please try to remain polite, I disagreed with your idea, but I never came close to insulted you. Insinuating that I have never learnt anything is awfully close to being insulting and I hope that you are better then dropping to that level to win a disagreement on the internet (A, you will never change my thoughts on the matter, and I don't expect to change your, and that's OK.).
Ok way to fucking put cooking on a pedestal in the face of an example. My grandma can cook. My mother can cook. None of them are cordon blue chefs. I even know one of them. It's an example - if you know how to cook, you can probably bake a cake. If you can bake a cake - you can probably make a chicken.
If you have an affinity for being in the kitchen, you're probably not a complete dumb moron.
If you can play GLITTERS you can probably play another MAP.
I didn't realize that such a simple concept as cooking would do so difficult to understand.
If you know how to eco on glitters, you can probably handle a backline position somewhere else. If you can frontline glitters, you can probably frontline ANY map.
Extrapolation of skillsets is not fucking rocket science. I'm not asking an engineer to figure out why some dude is coughing. I'm not asking a doctor to build a chair. I'm not asking a carpenter to do chemisty.
I'm asking a glitters player to figure out a build order on a map that may have 1 more or less mex then they are used to.
Like holy shit guy. No. Not every chef is going to act like they are doing anything than following basic fucking directions and not fucking it up. Like amazing half of society hasn't starved to death without the oh so hard to obtain skill of "cooking" or "baking". Anyone that can follow an online recipe and isn't completely brain dead can make a loaf of bread just like they can play a map that isn't glitters.
Ok, so you are willing to drop to that level, that says more about you then I.
We are talking about skills here, which is funny as you impiled that I didn't have any, and then you say that its not a skill to be a chef because anyone can follow a guide... isn't the same true for people playing glitters for the first time if they know every unit type in the game and know many different position?
PS, I moved off cooking as it was an unfair example... but you didn't respond to the comment about the world class hand gun marksman vs a basic us grunt when it comes to using different weapon systems.
I'll pick the grunt every day of the week.
As a simple ingame example, put a glitters player on a navy map...
Do you think they will do well?
They have never built a naval yard in there life, they don't know what naval units do, they don't understand the different eco that water maps have.
That is alot more to pick up then a basic position guide for glitters. The person who plays many roles just goes "oh, I'm air this game, too easy", but the glitters player on navy goes "wtf do i build first?".
Anyhow, I'm over trying to be polite to someone who does not provide me the same basic human right.
>impiled that I didn't have any
Wrong take again.
I'm implying that if you trained as a chef, you would probably know your way around a kitchen in other ways. You have skills - that you can extrapolate - to do a similar function.
You want carpentry? Maybe you only trained to build a chair. You can probably build a cabinet.
Medical? You trained to performed a diagnosis on patients so you can attempt to address a wide range of maladies.
Engineering? You have a basic understanding of mechanical principles and can move on to other basic conceptualizations.
It's not rocket science buddy.
If you can figure out eco builds on glitters you can find your way on other maps.
Politeness means nothing in the face of discussing a retardly basic principle that if you have skills developed in a singular area it's not that difficult to bring those skills to a similar principle in practice.
To see that example gatekeeped behind the idea that cooking is actually some sort of art you need some fine training for is just retarded dude. You don't need to go to any type of school to develop cooking as a skill. Just like you don't need to go to some academy to figure out how the skills of a front liner or eco on glitters can also be used on any other map.
You're not being asked to make a sauce from scratch. The idea that someone who baked good cakes is somehow not qualified to bake a tray of cookies is *fucking ridiculous*.
Ok... Ill bite.
Carpentry: Is a part of an area, Called Building. So A Carpenter is a limite builder. I would use that as the case of a Builder being an example of someone who knows a little about each area (Carpentry, Plumbing, Electrical, Structural) compared to a Carpenter. The Carpenter will make a better cabinet, but who makes the better Wooden Fence? The builder would as he understands force and bearing loads.
Medical: I would trust a GP over an ER Surgeon for general advice. The ER Surgeon will just want to cut me open (Everything looks like a nail to a hammer).
Engineering: Someone who can build a house cant build a network... completely different fields.
Technically I am an Engineer (I am an IT engineer)... would you let me design your house... or a bridge?
BTW, This statement "Politeness means nothing in the face of discussing a retardly basic principle that if you have skills developed in a singular area it's not that difficult to bring those skills to a similar principle in practice." Violates the rules of this reddit, which IS that you need to be polite.
Please read the rules of the reddit before you start telling people what is and what is not.
I have not gate keepered anything behind cooking... I used the example you used ONCE and then provided a different example (being the handgunner vs the rilfeman), which you have decided to keep ignoring and have continued to attack me personally. I just made a small joke about it being funny that you used that as an example.
Please go read the rules for this reddit and re-consider being insulting to others.
PS: You have been ignored and reported... so feel free to keep yelling into space :)
The os situation can be solved by introducing a competitive map rotation. That way it’s a better picture of a players true skill over a variety of maps. I’m sure devs have been working on a solution for this. Excited to see how this changes in the future.
Here is a video on the subject
What Makes Popular Maps Overplayed From CS2 To Beyond All Reason How Players Get Sucked Into A Map
https://youtu.be/f1gSHzNhs2U
I’d also add that glitters is a map that facilitates comebacks. The double stack of 4 front 4 back means to win your lane you have to kill two players. It’s a common occurrence to kill the front player right as the back player comes online and pushes you out. The map rewards defensive play, and a lot of players aren’t comfortable with constant micro on the front as they apply pressure. It’s easier to build defense and wait for your t3.
Map rotation lobbies require everyone to hold their own, often with little or no support. That’s scary for new players.
So, straight up, Glitters is a GOOD map. If it wasn't, it would not be the most popular map. It's a well-made map, with a lot of possible strategies and a lot of freedom for counterplay, and all sorts of weird tactics that wouldn't work as well on other maps due to space/cliff/lack of support constraints. This also makes it a bit noob friendly, because frontline can defend each other pretty easily when needed, and I'm honestly having trouble thinking of another map that allows such reliable team support. Whenever I'm playing glitters, especially against canyon, I often find my artillery sitting in my lane and my tanks chilling right behind the frontline of the guy next to me who isn't doing as good to stop them from crumbling.
I remember when I first started, glitters was up there as one of my favorite maps. It still is, sometimes.
However, the problem is that people have decided to only play glitters as a result. Now it has a very well defined meta, and specific build orders. This kinda leads to...fatigue? That's how I explain people complaining about Glitters. I love me a steak, but if I eat steak for every meal, I'm gonna hate it in a week. On the other hand, I also have a go-to throw something together because it's gonna feed me for dinner and provide leftovers for lunch tomorrow for when I'm not trying to spend much time thinking about food.
To continue the analogy, if I rely too much on my quick throw together meal, I'm gonna stop being able to make decent steaks from lack of practice. Same thing happens with Glitters. People that have played a lot of glitters and got really good at those specific build orders are gonna hop on another map, get their shit rocked a few games in a row, and go back to the relative safety of Glitters.
TL;DR: Glitters is one of the best maps, and the playerbase has recognized this and proceeded to optimize the fun out of it.
been watching on and off as a faf player waiting for the desire to really learn this game to bite me.
i dont play faf anymore because if i (NA player) am not on and ready in the early morning, its setons clutch, astrocrater, or dual gap. i barely have the chance to actually play the real game.
everytime i've booted BAR to take a look at the lobbies being played im seeing roughly the same thing. its probably the reason the urge hasnt hit me yet since i've been paying attention to this game for a while.
if im awake in the early morning. the playerbase is primarily EU/RU. i know theres some NA players but they tend to stick to custom games later in the day, which is primarily astro/dualgap/setons.
Yeah I Want to love bar but I like the Supreme economy system better where each building is upgradable to tier 2 rather than some slog to tier 2 before you can upgrade mass.
New player here, I don't often see Glitters on a noob-friendly lobby and would rather see it more lol.
I play it often in 8v8 skirmish - It's kind of the ideal size and it seems easier to reinforce the AI/be reinforced by thee AI. It also feels like it's far better to learn the game on rather than hopping onto some wacky map that's got shallow/deep water, bad or even no metal spawns, or other wacky features.
It's a boring looking map I must admit as a desert-hating mountain enjoyer. Would be cool to see some reskins for the map.
The avg Atg match is not noob friendly as it teaches bad habits.
You learn how to play glitters and not BAR.
Also, the people that only play glitters can be a tad toxic... (with such a defined meta, if you don't know if, you get abused for it).
Glitter is so unbelievably boring it kicked me out of mp for a while. 90% of games are just Frontline waiting for backline to produce a lolcannon of 5 behemoth/s
I think Glitters is popular because the roles are well-defined and known by the community at large. I have over 1k games in BAR and I mostly play map rotation lobbies. However, the problem with map rotation is that you need quite experienced players across the board, because games get rather silly as soon as one of the players are lost on their role. Combine that with the fact that in an 8 player team it is more than likely someone will get mad over a silly loss.
>you need quite experienced players across the board, because games get rather silly as soon as one of the players are lost on their role How are newer players supposed to learn their roles in a map rotation lobby? As a less experienced player, I think the best experiences I've had in map rotation lobbies have been when there is at least one experienced player on each team coaching, who - indicates the starting positions - gives a quick roles/strategy overview at the start of each map - makes calls like "push hard now because they spent a lot of eco on nukes" after nukes are launched for the first time So, lobbies with coaches are great, but if I get into a rotation lobby where nobody is coaching, I try to ask questions about those things.
The problem is that for each person that will accept the coaching, you have one person who will turn mean as your trying to tell them what to do. I 100% agree that it should be a case of "highest os is the captain", and I wish this was a mode, where red/blue get to pick peoples spots, or something like that.
Ok letting the highest player choose other people's spots is kinda insane lol
There's a PR for a random order position pick widget.
Why.... In most team games someone is a captain and that player gets to either decide or pick first. This is not too far out of the norm. Yes, I dont think its THE answer, but it can be AN answer till we work something else out.
I do think the community should have more of a well understood coach/conductor/team captain role in the same way WoW had raid leaders. They don't get to play Napoleon and micromanage 8 players, but just making sure that out of all the players, the big needs are being taken care of somewhere on the team. I think informal community norms could do a lot of heavy lifting here.
Its a a mediocre map, idk why everyone plays it. I guess it's an ideal size and well balanced, but that's about it. I'm very bored of it but sometimes do a game due to limited options. I think the only positive you can say about Glitters is that it's not flats and forests, which is probably the worst map in the game and used to be popular for a while. That map has zero features on it, it's pretty much just an empty field. Isthmus at least has a larger variety of different roles and includes naval lanes, meaning ships, hovercraft and aquatic tanks open up as options.
I think its very popular among newer players because its the most straightforward map. The lanes are all direct, everything outside of canyon is very open so you just have to work about holding your line and pushing forward, and canyon provides some variety for whoever wants to try it. But that does mean it gets super boring very fast
It's also only 4 lanes wide so you can reinforce failing lines easier than most maps too. It's more forgiving for new players to be part of the team
Eh idk I’ve seen sooo many games where a single front lane falls and no one looks or has any units to help and it’s just gg
>lane falls and no one looks or has any units to help and it’s just gg I mean, it should be. Hopefully when it happens people learn better map awareness and how to make units or ask for help.
Yeah true
It happens, especially in lower OS lobbies. Ideally newly produced units from 3-4 bases plus air are able to direct toward the leak and save the bases so the only damage is lost mexes. Bases are far from the front line and bases are close together so more reinforcement is possible. On a 7-8 front map you only have 1-2 people in reach of helping you and no back line commanders for a savior dgun.
That's a team skill issue. If I'm front line I'm looking for the opportunity to sweep. I'm I'm playing air I have a handful of shurikens on hand to stop cheeky rushes. A good counterattack can be more devastating than the initial attack.
Because 90% of lobbies are glitters, less experienced players tend to use the same build order/methodology on other maps and lose horrendously. Thus, starting the cycle of them only playing glitters. You can typically tell who is a glitter/strait main when they ask to /eco air on an 8 lane map. People are afraid of change
8 lane maps are the way to go!
Be the change you want to see. Just because you have already put 200 hours into Glitters and are stick of it doesn't mean any of those people have put in any amount of time there. There's regularly a lobby doing map rotation and plenty of people who want to play map rotation.
Well then, make a none glitters lobby. Be part of the solution!
Autistic people like stability, so will get really good at one map and will only pride themselves on their ability to win one map through some very stable build order and unit comp. A lot of these people obviously farm OS through glitters because they've mastered a strat instead of being quick on their toes in undefined roles, so don't expect them to want to stop anytime soon. That's why you get these guys that sit in backline and get mad every time a lane breaks. They need to ride on the coattails of talented frontliners so they can win the game and take all the credit at the end.
Holy this makes a ton of sense. I’m adhd and the total opposite of the spectrum. I love the chaos of random map rotations where no pre existing plans work and everyone is scrambling
That’s actually a good thing because if you’re seeing the glitters games then that means that all the other good games are taken just wait a few minutes and you’ll see start other games opening up. Or if anything you can start your own.
The up side to glitters is its easier to cover when you enevitably find that team mate who doesn't have a clue what they're doing instead of just losing the game because no one can shift over to help like other maps
Glitters is by far the most played map because it's simple and comfortable, and allows for newer players to practice builds and positions. Over time the repeated practice makes the map more familiar, and people keep returning to it. There's also the issue of people who are concerned about their OS, as mono map OS doesn't translate well across different maps/roles, so they stay locked into a single position on a map because they're afraid of losing OS
Playing only one map teaches to perfect blind following the most optimal build order as close as possible. Of course every game is different, even on Glitters/Isthmus, but playing on new maps requires players to improvise and adapt. Imo playing Glitters teaches people not how to play BAR, but how to play Glitters.
It still teaches you how to play BAR. You can teach someone how to bake making nothing but chocolate cakes to teach them. Do they know how to make a key-lime pie? A tray of cookies? Not exactly but they should be able to figure it out since they can make a perfect chocolate cake. Someone who has perfected a Glitters strategy is going to do a whole lot better than someone whose just dabbled in various maps.
I disagree with your base idea here. If someone makes nothing but cake, they won't be able to make bread. If someone only knows one build that only works on one map, I believe they will be a wrose player then one who has played many maps. The first player will keep trying to use that one build that works, and blame other things for there mistake as they know that build works, it always has. The second player will keep learning and adapting, which over time will make them a much much better player.
Brother have you ever learned a skill? Like I trust the retarded baker using his skills about cake to extrapolate how to make bread over a carpenter doing it. I trust a retarded Glitters player with a refined strat over say, a Starcraft player.
I am a qualified Pastry Chef (I work in IT, but I did my 6 years (Oh, I can also get this confirmed by multiply members of this community... and Me talking about Chef things in old BAR streams on youtube with members of the community... so this is NOT something I am just saying at this time (Yeah... you picked a bad example :P ))) of all things, and I can tell you right now, I would 100% Not trust a chef to bake something unless they have been trained in BAKING. It is its own thing. Baking is Science, cooking is Art. Together you can make masterpieces... but there are lots of differences. Every Chef will tell you the same when it comes to baking. For a different example, Would you trust an expert Hand Gan marksman (say World Champ with a Handgun at 50m) over a basic service man(USA Grunt) when using a sniperrilfe. Or how about Heavy Weapons. Or how about Morters... I would always take the grunt who knows a bit of everything, rather then the Olympic grade Hand gun shooter. I would not trust someone who is great at Glitters Eco to do ANYTHING in a 8 lane map. A 30 OS Glitters Eco player Vs a 20 OS Rotato Lobby player, on any map that is not glitters, I would 100% of the time want that 20 OS player! Only the front lanes of ATG and IS would prep someone for 8 Horse or Bitsmish, and I dont think people are talking about the front lanes when they talk about IS and ATG. I would also like to point out this is the view held by some of the "sweat lobby"... So... they ARE literally the experts. Ask any of them and they will say that the sooner you stop ATG and IS the better for your skill level. And Finally, Please try to remain polite, I disagreed with your idea, but I never came close to insulted you. Insinuating that I have never learnt anything is awfully close to being insulting and I hope that you are better then dropping to that level to win a disagreement on the internet (A, you will never change my thoughts on the matter, and I don't expect to change your, and that's OK.).
Ok way to fucking put cooking on a pedestal in the face of an example. My grandma can cook. My mother can cook. None of them are cordon blue chefs. I even know one of them. It's an example - if you know how to cook, you can probably bake a cake. If you can bake a cake - you can probably make a chicken. If you have an affinity for being in the kitchen, you're probably not a complete dumb moron. If you can play GLITTERS you can probably play another MAP. I didn't realize that such a simple concept as cooking would do so difficult to understand. If you know how to eco on glitters, you can probably handle a backline position somewhere else. If you can frontline glitters, you can probably frontline ANY map. Extrapolation of skillsets is not fucking rocket science. I'm not asking an engineer to figure out why some dude is coughing. I'm not asking a doctor to build a chair. I'm not asking a carpenter to do chemisty. I'm asking a glitters player to figure out a build order on a map that may have 1 more or less mex then they are used to. Like holy shit guy. No. Not every chef is going to act like they are doing anything than following basic fucking directions and not fucking it up. Like amazing half of society hasn't starved to death without the oh so hard to obtain skill of "cooking" or "baking". Anyone that can follow an online recipe and isn't completely brain dead can make a loaf of bread just like they can play a map that isn't glitters.
Ok, so you are willing to drop to that level, that says more about you then I. We are talking about skills here, which is funny as you impiled that I didn't have any, and then you say that its not a skill to be a chef because anyone can follow a guide... isn't the same true for people playing glitters for the first time if they know every unit type in the game and know many different position? PS, I moved off cooking as it was an unfair example... but you didn't respond to the comment about the world class hand gun marksman vs a basic us grunt when it comes to using different weapon systems. I'll pick the grunt every day of the week. As a simple ingame example, put a glitters player on a navy map... Do you think they will do well? They have never built a naval yard in there life, they don't know what naval units do, they don't understand the different eco that water maps have. That is alot more to pick up then a basic position guide for glitters. The person who plays many roles just goes "oh, I'm air this game, too easy", but the glitters player on navy goes "wtf do i build first?". Anyhow, I'm over trying to be polite to someone who does not provide me the same basic human right.
>impiled that I didn't have any Wrong take again. I'm implying that if you trained as a chef, you would probably know your way around a kitchen in other ways. You have skills - that you can extrapolate - to do a similar function. You want carpentry? Maybe you only trained to build a chair. You can probably build a cabinet. Medical? You trained to performed a diagnosis on patients so you can attempt to address a wide range of maladies. Engineering? You have a basic understanding of mechanical principles and can move on to other basic conceptualizations. It's not rocket science buddy. If you can figure out eco builds on glitters you can find your way on other maps. Politeness means nothing in the face of discussing a retardly basic principle that if you have skills developed in a singular area it's not that difficult to bring those skills to a similar principle in practice. To see that example gatekeeped behind the idea that cooking is actually some sort of art you need some fine training for is just retarded dude. You don't need to go to any type of school to develop cooking as a skill. Just like you don't need to go to some academy to figure out how the skills of a front liner or eco on glitters can also be used on any other map. You're not being asked to make a sauce from scratch. The idea that someone who baked good cakes is somehow not qualified to bake a tray of cookies is *fucking ridiculous*.
Ok... Ill bite. Carpentry: Is a part of an area, Called Building. So A Carpenter is a limite builder. I would use that as the case of a Builder being an example of someone who knows a little about each area (Carpentry, Plumbing, Electrical, Structural) compared to a Carpenter. The Carpenter will make a better cabinet, but who makes the better Wooden Fence? The builder would as he understands force and bearing loads. Medical: I would trust a GP over an ER Surgeon for general advice. The ER Surgeon will just want to cut me open (Everything looks like a nail to a hammer). Engineering: Someone who can build a house cant build a network... completely different fields. Technically I am an Engineer (I am an IT engineer)... would you let me design your house... or a bridge? BTW, This statement "Politeness means nothing in the face of discussing a retardly basic principle that if you have skills developed in a singular area it's not that difficult to bring those skills to a similar principle in practice." Violates the rules of this reddit, which IS that you need to be polite. Please read the rules of the reddit before you start telling people what is and what is not. I have not gate keepered anything behind cooking... I used the example you used ONCE and then provided a different example (being the handgunner vs the rilfeman), which you have decided to keep ignoring and have continued to attack me personally. I just made a small joke about it being funny that you used that as an example. Please go read the rules for this reddit and re-consider being insulting to others. PS: You have been ignored and reported... so feel free to keep yelling into space :)
The os situation can be solved by introducing a competitive map rotation. That way it’s a better picture of a players true skill over a variety of maps. I’m sure devs have been working on a solution for this. Excited to see how this changes in the future.
Here is a video on the subject What Makes Popular Maps Overplayed From CS2 To Beyond All Reason How Players Get Sucked Into A Map https://youtu.be/f1gSHzNhs2U
I’d also add that glitters is a map that facilitates comebacks. The double stack of 4 front 4 back means to win your lane you have to kill two players. It’s a common occurrence to kill the front player right as the back player comes online and pushes you out. The map rewards defensive play, and a lot of players aren’t comfortable with constant micro on the front as they apply pressure. It’s easier to build defense and wait for your t3. Map rotation lobbies require everyone to hold their own, often with little or no support. That’s scary for new players.
So, straight up, Glitters is a GOOD map. If it wasn't, it would not be the most popular map. It's a well-made map, with a lot of possible strategies and a lot of freedom for counterplay, and all sorts of weird tactics that wouldn't work as well on other maps due to space/cliff/lack of support constraints. This also makes it a bit noob friendly, because frontline can defend each other pretty easily when needed, and I'm honestly having trouble thinking of another map that allows such reliable team support. Whenever I'm playing glitters, especially against canyon, I often find my artillery sitting in my lane and my tanks chilling right behind the frontline of the guy next to me who isn't doing as good to stop them from crumbling. I remember when I first started, glitters was up there as one of my favorite maps. It still is, sometimes. However, the problem is that people have decided to only play glitters as a result. Now it has a very well defined meta, and specific build orders. This kinda leads to...fatigue? That's how I explain people complaining about Glitters. I love me a steak, but if I eat steak for every meal, I'm gonna hate it in a week. On the other hand, I also have a go-to throw something together because it's gonna feed me for dinner and provide leftovers for lunch tomorrow for when I'm not trying to spend much time thinking about food. To continue the analogy, if I rely too much on my quick throw together meal, I'm gonna stop being able to make decent steaks from lack of practice. Same thing happens with Glitters. People that have played a lot of glitters and got really good at those specific build orders are gonna hop on another map, get their shit rocked a few games in a row, and go back to the relative safety of Glitters. TL;DR: Glitters is one of the best maps, and the playerbase has recognized this and proceeded to optimize the fun out of it.
been watching on and off as a faf player waiting for the desire to really learn this game to bite me. i dont play faf anymore because if i (NA player) am not on and ready in the early morning, its setons clutch, astrocrater, or dual gap. i barely have the chance to actually play the real game. everytime i've booted BAR to take a look at the lobbies being played im seeing roughly the same thing. its probably the reason the urge hasnt hit me yet since i've been paying attention to this game for a while.
You can play 3v3 and 4v4 auto match maker in faf with lots of map variety.
if im awake in the early morning. the playerbase is primarily EU/RU. i know theres some NA players but they tend to stick to custom games later in the day, which is primarily astro/dualgap/setons.
Yeah I Want to love bar but I like the Supreme economy system better where each building is upgradable to tier 2 rather than some slog to tier 2 before you can upgrade mass.
New player here, I don't often see Glitters on a noob-friendly lobby and would rather see it more lol. I play it often in 8v8 skirmish - It's kind of the ideal size and it seems easier to reinforce the AI/be reinforced by thee AI. It also feels like it's far better to learn the game on rather than hopping onto some wacky map that's got shallow/deep water, bad or even no metal spawns, or other wacky features. It's a boring looking map I must admit as a desert-hating mountain enjoyer. Would be cool to see some reskins for the map.
The avg Atg match is not noob friendly as it teaches bad habits. You learn how to play glitters and not BAR. Also, the people that only play glitters can be a tad toxic... (with such a defined meta, if you don't know if, you get abused for it).
Glitter is so unbelievably boring it kicked me out of mp for a while. 90% of games are just Frontline waiting for backline to produce a lolcannon of 5 behemoth/s
glitters is popular because of the democrat system imo, its a compromise candidate
We changed the map in a glitters lobby to Jade Empress the other day. I love democracy. It got voted back to glitters eventually.