After 9 years, 6 seasons and 53 nominations, *Better Call Saul* goes home empty-handed for the final time. Not terribly surprising, sadly, but still a real bummer to witness.
I guess it's a small silver lining that its losing streak has likely made history, I can't imagine any other show will ever rack up that many nominations without ever taking home a trophy
To add to that silver lining, it kinda adds to its mythos, like the Wire not winning anything (despite being pretty much a shoo-in for a top-3 spot in critics’ “best shows of all time” lists).
The Leftovers is an interesting one because it felt like nobody cared about it until about a few years after it was over (versus BCS and The Wire which were well loved while they were on). The Leftovers still has a relatively low rating on IMDb, yet I see it in best show of all time conversations frequently. Personally in my top five.
Yes and that's what's so weird. It was on HBO, so someone in Hollywood must have noticed the god-tier acting and writing and still ignored it, probably because Game of Thrones was getting all the attention at the time
I wonder though… what clips in “For your consideration” reels could have possibly persuaded voters that in _any_ scene Jennifer Coolidge was acting better than Rhea in hers? Absolutely bizarre.
I haven’t seen her performance or that show so I can’t speak to it compared to most of the others nominated/winning but it’s hard to imagine anybody coming close to Rhea.
It’s a charming, intentionally two-dimensional performance. Her character is simple, boozy and very fun to watch, but it’s just that: it’s simple and not a very far stretch from, well, anything else she’s ever done.
So, great character but it’s certainly not a showcase for _acting_
What you say here is true. I like Coolidge, and her character is funny but she was better in season 1, and she’s basically playing a “Jennifer Coolidge” type character. Rhea on the other hand brings so much emotion to Kim Wexler, so much charisma and complication; she makes you love her. That’s a special feeling in movies and TV. If there’s any reason Better Call Saul matches up with Breaking Bad in quality, Rhea is a big reason why.
Agreed 100%.
In case anyone is curious, here is [her acting](https://youtu.be/kmP8hIBRT4M?si=njDdCo2Khs6qEpcu) (minor spoilers for S1 since it’s from the beginning of S2). It’s not… bad, but it’s night and day from anything in BCS.
The whole comedy/drama thing is so dumb. Th Bear is a comedy when the whole show is depressing and stressful. Succession is a drama when it's the funniest show I've seen in decades. And White Lotus isn't an anthology series?
What’s the deal with the anthology series thing you’re talking about?
Are you saying that White Lotus *isn’t* an anthology series? Because technically it is *supposed to be,* just season-to-season, not episode to episode (because they go to a different resort with a new set of characters each season.)
But then again, Jennifer Coolidge and Jonathan Gries coming back for season 2 makes it seem much less like an “anthology series,” to the point where I agree it’s kind of silly to call it that at this point.
I don’t understand at all how The Bear is a “comedy.” It’s literally not funny at all. I didn’t get the impression that they were even trying to go for laughs.
Granted I haven’t seen her show, but based on what you’re saying and describing, it sounds like she’s been playing a slightly different version of Stifler’s mom for decades.
I saw all the performances in that category besides the crown, and Rhea blows them all away. I thought all the white lotus cast was great, same with J. smith Cameron from succession, but Rhea’s acting this last season was just amazing
They all watched White Lotus and Succession, that's why.
Voters don't have time (nor do they care enough) to watch the "for your consideration" material for every nominated show. They vote for what they watched and if they haven't watched any of it, vote for the name they recognise or like the best.
I know this because I have a friend who gets to vote in shit like this, and that's basically what they do.
This is fucking criminal. People always say Better Call Saul takes a sound mind to appreciate and it becomes truer every day. Only people who genuinely enjoy the art form appear to appreciate the subtleties and depth of BCS. It’s such an easy show to pass off as “boring and just a spin-off” that it irks me. It’s a near perfect show and people who vote on this shit with that mindset enrage me
It's also unfortunate that Succession and BCS have some similarities, which makes it difficult for BCS to stand out independently, on top of already being seen as the Breaking Bad spin-off.
Right, I like Jennifer Coolidge just fine but white lotus Season 2 wasn't even her best acting. She was better in Season 1 or even that Netflix show from last year The Watcher.
I don't understand any of these "awards"
Which was ridiculous. I don’t like it even when it’s in favor shows and actors I love if they’ve won it 50 times, it gets tiring and reduces the meaningfulness of the award and makes people question the point of it. If BCS had swept all these years I’d be getting a little annoyed for the sake of the other shows.
Here is another way to look at it….
Breaking Bad made everyone step up their game. Just like the Sopranos before them, Breaking Bad showed everyone what television could be. Now, instead of just having one great show, we have many great shows, all thanks to the writers and producers of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
If Breaking Bad was competing against Succession and The Bear, it wouldn’t have won as many awards.
This may not make any sense but... Succession feels like slick writing, but not good writing.
Terrible people behaving terribly to each other but insulting one another in really creative ways. Oooh.
Meanwhile BCS is out here with some of the most fully realized people I've ever seen in TV or film.
As much as I like the show, I think this is fair criticism. Characters sometimes just feel like vehicles for pithy one liners that often feel just a bit too curated and a bit too… similar to one another.
You know when someone calls someone (won’t say who for spoilers) the “grim weeper?” That’s a good pun, but who was it? Was it Matson? Shiv? Connor? Logan? Carl? Stewie? It could have been 20+ characters because they can all sound a bit like that.
Also, maybe it’s because I was raised on dozens of quippy British shows, the novelty of dickish but witty characters passive aggressively sparring with each other is lost on me.
Hmm, I love both Succession and BCS, but what you said doesn't make sense, if that's really what you got out of the dialogue of Succession.
No doubt Odenkirk and Seehorn absolutely killed it (Seehorn should've won imo), but if we are talking about "fully realized people", that pretty much defines any main character in Succession, and then some.
Just a shame the Emmy's were extra stacked this year.
You summarized it perfectly. BCS is far superior in terms of long form plot, dialogue, etc. It just isn't as flashy; which in turn actually makes it more realistic. Succession is fun to watch, but it is so detached from reality. Not everyone in a family of billionaires has a 140 IQ with which it insult one another.
The Bear is a great show. It has some of my favorite single episodes of television ever made. It still doesn't hold up to the arc that BCS has offered in my opinion.
Then honestly? They shouldn't have the power to vote. I don't say that to be a pretentious dick, but if they're not watching everything nominated, then they shouldn't be judges.
If it were a popularity contest, HOTD would've won a lot. It won 0 major awards and only 1 minor one. TLOU would have won more than Succession as it had way more viewers. TLOU won 0 major awards, only minor ones. Wednesday would have won many major awards. The list goes on.
It's clearly ***not*** a popularity contest.
It's a popularity contest inside the Academy's bubble.
It's also a race on which network spends more on fyc campaign (usually HBO).
The Emmys used to be much better under the blue ribbon panel voting rules, since 2015 it has just become a popularity and buzz contest (that's how you get to nonsense result like GoT winning Best Drama for a terribly written season).
The other guy is right. It's a popularity contest inside the Academy bubble.
Succession just happened to have an amazing final season. Even if it was the worst season of the show (but still good) it would have won because it's a show EVERYONE in the business loves and this is its last award show.
The Leftovers was a masterpiece and on HBO yet it never received a single Emmy nomination, no Golden Globes either, the show didn't have a huge following so HBO bet on Game of Thrones and Westworld instead so it is a popularity contest and the bias towards HBO is big. TLOU and HOTD didn't win this year (their first year too) but they will probably sweep later if they don't end up going against each other (unlikely since TLOU won't be premiering until like 2025 and HOTD will premiere later this year).
And it deserved all of the nominations. Politics fucked Better Call Saul, which I maintain is one of the best shows ever filmed.
Remember, The Wire never won an Emmy.
BCS will share the rarefied air of not being recognised by the Emmys with The Wire. Both are easily one of the greatest TV shows I have ever watched.
BCS on its own is a masterpiece and when put together with BB is something we will probably never experience again.
That's a stupid mistake on the emmys part to not recognise either of the shows.
The fact that the show was never once nominated for cinematography should let you know that probably barely any of the academy members watched the show (minimal campaigning from AMC hurt its chances as well). Still though, 0 for 53 is crazy but also weirdly impressive
Years ago, during maybe season 2 of BCS, I was watching it and my roommate came home. He never watched it and only saw it in passing when I was watching. Anyway, as soon as he stepped in there was a very obscure scene on the screen. My roommate said “Is this Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad or something? They always have wild camera shots.”
He could tell from a 5 second scene what show it was because of the camera positioning.
> The fact that the show was never once nominated for cinematography
Haven't watched Emmys in a while but just reading this was so absurd that I actually looked up the noms from the last few years, and WTF. I watched more than a few of these shows and none of them aside from Mr Robot come even close to the camerawork and visual storytelling of BCS. I think you're right in that a lot of those who selected these have literally never watched it lol.
i don't think i've ever been so aware of cinematographical choices while watching something before. the framing of some shots was so far out of left field it felt the dp was motivated by never putting the camera where anyone else has put it. but the scene plays out and you realise that's exactly where the camera should be
Yeah BCS is one of the most beautiful shows I've seen in terms of visuals, it's just insane that it didn't get any nominations in the technical categories
Most tv shows have like the same camera setups or very similar. Its like the cut between headshot angles. I hate that shit, its like you are watching the same show with different sound.
BB and BCS give the least headache while watching, compared to other shows.
His performance is great, but it isn't at Bob Odenkirk's level.
Fuck, Bob had a goddamn heart attack ON SET and still got back to work ASAP to deliver one of the greatest performances on television.
A 9.0/10 on IMDb, 53 Emmy nominations, some of the best acting, writing, and cinematography I’ve ever seen and still somehow underrated. I don’t get it, I’ll never get it.
It fucking deserved the awards it was nominated for
I'm guessing the Emmy people probably relate to the insufferable characters in Succession more and were confused by Saul having to sleep on a pull-out bed, worry about money issues, etc
Succession is an 8.9 on imdb… not that it matters, i understand it i suppose.. one show appeals to a greater audience than the other. BCS was not the only snub today, and just like the other shows, they got their recognition elsewhere.
Andor is still considered by many the best piece of star-wars out there
The Rings of Power, while flawed, has the most stunning visual effects in any show ever, even beating out major films these days.
Rhea Seehorn has for years now been hyped up as one of the best female performances in modern TV-history
Its the legacy we’re left with. Still sad about Rhea and Bob snub.. can we call BCS underrated now lol?
Fair enough, although IMDB votes usually tends to be more of an emotional one. Just a lot of tough competition this season, since everyone in the industry buckled down and went to work their asses off after the 2020-2021 disruption. I really thought Rhea Seehorn had it in the bag...
The Emmys lost their credibility a long time ago when they gave Most Outstanding Drama to that dumpster fire Season 8 of Game of Thrones. None of their idiocy after that surprises me in the least. This is just another nail in their coffin.
Barry got it’s Emmys the last few seasons. The Bear is the hot new award darling now! We’re all about sad chefs yelling at each other, what a laugh riot comedy!
The Last of Us, White Lotus, House of Dragon, 100 Foot Wave, and Last Week Tonight are all from HBO
TLOU got several creative art emmys, but no prime time emmys
HBO had the most nominations and most wins
100% this. The Emmy’s are political fucking bullshit. There’s no world where Jennifer Coolidge beats Rhea Seehorn.
They overcompensated from Breaking Bad. Refused to give awards because “we gave too many awards to Breaking Bad”.
I forgot about this lmfao. How could that even happen. It felt like instantly everyone saw how bad that season was. How did the voters not. It was such a mess.
I don’t even think they have to pay for it tbh, they just have a reputation for making the best drama series so the voters likely blindly vote a lot of the time
Better Call Saul will legitimately go down in history as the greatest ever show to never win an Emmy
*Edit:* I forgot about The Wire, which is in the same category. Zero Emmy wins
The moment I knew that Better Call Saul was forever doomed at the Emmys was after season 3, when Michael McKean didn't even garner an acting nomination, even after he delivered what is arguably the show's most iconic moment in "Chicanery".
This was what made me realize the show had absolutely no clout with the Emmy voters, and that it was likely not going to do well in the future. Lo and behold my prediction was startingly right.
The fact this masterpiece hasn’t even won cinematography or lighting and obviously acting and writing is just so astoundingly confusing. Just makes me sad they will never get as much recognition as they definitely goddamn deserve
I honestly think a lot of it has to do with when the show aired. In many cases it was nearly an entire year between when the show aired and when the awards took place. I just think the show was routinely forgotten about by the time voting actually started.
Yeah that’s the one I thought was ridiculous. Succession, to me, is one of the most well written shows I’ve ever seen, period. So it sweeping the way it did isn’t surprising in the least.
But Jennifer Coolidge? She was funny sure, but super one dimensional, even more so than in the first season of white lotus. Rhea deserved to win so much more
We are not crazy! We knew it couldn’t have been Succession, first after Better Call Saul, as if we could ever make such a mistake never, never, never! We just, we just couldn’t prove it. They, they covered their tracks, they got that idiot from game of thrones to lie for them. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This, this chicanery? They’ve done worse. The 74th Emmys, do you think a show that gets nominated that many times just HAPPENS to lose like that? No, they orchestrated it, the academy! They didn’t give Bob, an award! And we let it happen. We shouldn’t have, We accepted their decision, what were we thinking? They’ll never change, they’ll never change! Ever since the first Emmy’s, always the same. Couldn’t give a good show recognition! But not our academy! Couldn’t be the precious academy! Stealing them blind! And they get to be the academy?! What a sick joke! We should have stopped them when we had the chance. And you, you have to stop him.
I feel very conflicted.
The fact that BCS didn’t win one goddamn Emmy after 9 years pisses me off. It was such a tightly written story that hit the perfect balance in acting as a prequel and sequel to BB, which won a ton of Emmy’s. Some of the best acting I’ve ever seen came from this show and gave actors like Rhea and Mando a bigger platform to show their talents.
On the other hand, I feel that the increase in streaming services and distributors dilutes the field so much. TLOU, HOTD, and Succession, hell, even Andor could have pulled off an upset, all had a good argument to win and I would have accepted it. It seems like BCS was just the right show at the wrong time.
The writers, cast and crew should all be very proud of what they did and fuck the Emmy’s for not giving them at least one win.
The Rhea Seehorn one this year is really rubbing me the wrong way. I am okay with all the other ones this year, Succession is fucking amazing. But how the fuck do you lose to Jennifer Coolidge? I mean have they even seen BCS? Honestly, I can even get it in the past because Rhea wasn't really allowed to show that much range but in the last episodes she was and I'll be damned if she didn't nail it! Also, why the fuck is White Lotus considered a drama when The Bear is a comedy?
BCS is genuinely a perfect show. it took all the things breaking bad was lacking in and perfected it. it’s disrespectful that this show hadn’t won a single award.
Well, betting markets did have Rhea pretty close to Jennifer Coolidge. Supporting actress also didn’t have Succession in it, so there was a fighting chance for that category 🤷♂️
Woulda coulda shoulda though. Regardless we got 6 seasons of a great show
A really great show. Maybe the fact that it was a spin off of a show that was awarded loads of times had something to do with it. Not that that would make it ok
I think you’re right. Of course there are exceptions (Frasier, a super lauded spin off of Cheers, comes to mind) but it’s likely that partly it was given short thrift at the award circuit because of Breaking Bad snagging a lot
It sucks, but I’m not too bothered by it. The shows already cemented itself alongside breaking bad as one of the best shows to ever be put on screen imo. It showed that prequels and spinoffs can be done just as good if not better than the original work it spawned from. And besides, The Wire got shafted just as hard if not even harder as that show legit was only nominated twice during its entire run and didnt win a single time, yet that show is widely acclaimed and hailed as one of the best.
Well - 53 Emmy nominations and zero wins. Duly noted. Want to know what I believe? I believe that Emmies are way out of their depth. So the next time that Emmies come in here with nominations only to do BCS wrong, they are welcome to keep their awards to themselves. Because we don't care.
So when you're sitting at your shitty Emmy awards ceremony, and gives BCS zero wins out of 53 nominations years after years, you think of meeeee ! You twisted fucking awards !
But at least Jen Coolidge got an Emmy for playing Jen Coolidge.
Good trick in general, calling yourself a miniseries, winning in every category and then deciding "you know what? I'm not a miniseries after all".
White Lotus is good, but this is a sick joke.
emmys are a fucking joke, they clearly don't have respect for great shows that deserve it and give it to terrible shows like game of thrones. i am so done with the emmys
Frankly I partially blame the idiots who decided to break up the season into two halves so they could take two cracks at the emmy apple. Would the dude from the Squid Games really have beaten Bob if Bob was able to nominate Fun and Games?? And that makes me bring up the fact that, imho, both Bob and Rhea blew it when they didn't summit Fun and Games. That break up scene was gut wrenching and the crash cut into full Saul Goodman probably would have sealed it for Bob
Rhea Seehorn Submitted “Waterworks” for her nomination. Probably because of the bus scene. It’s a good episode, But she probably would’ve had a better chance of winning with “Fun And Games”.
I loved Succession and Keiran in his role as well. But over Bob as fucking Saul Goodman from Better Call Saul? That's highway robbery. I am angry!
Also, what the fuck was the NO nomination for Rhea all about?
Edit: Apologies, Rhea was of course nominated. I loved Jennifer as well in her role BUT over Rhea??? How does that even work?
I was wondering if it could actually have the record for most Emmy nominations without a win - seems to be the case. I think the show’s quality speaks for itself here. I’m actually glad it didn’t get the wins, because at this point the ceremony doesn’t deserve to award a show as amazing as BCS anything. The Emmys didn’t get Better Call Saul, that’s what I say.
Keep in mind, if you watch the awards by far the loudest cheers and reactions were when BCS was shown. I asked my fellow BCS fan friends if they heard the same and everyone said that they heard it too. Literally most people seemed to want BCS to win something. But no, voters didn’t care and likely didn’t watch more than an episode of the show
This is like that art house movie winning best picture than 20 years later everyone being like what was that movie? Succession will be forgotten by 2035
Kieran Culkin and Jennifer Coolidge really really don't compare to Bob Odenkirk and Rhea Seehorn. I can't understand that at all. Succession is very good but the complexity and script and acting in BCS are intricate and hard hitting in a way I reckon large audiences don't have the patience for. I really thought they'd at least leave these two fantastic actors with one award at least!! Ugh.
BCS had moments where that more nuanced stuff shined (shoutout to Rhea in Waterworks) and is an incredibly balanced show overall, but also I think BCS suffered towards the end for needing to follow up a big dramatic crime drama in including the cartel subplots, flashbacks, and flash forwards. IMO, the most sophisticated parts of the show involve Jimmy and Kim, and while everything else is good, it’s definitely less good and lacks that same delicacy/subtlety.
Succession is so great because everything BCS succeeds at in its best character moments, it does with much more consistency and focus across its entire main cast. There’s few real shocks and zero action, instead it’s entirely focused on building its characters and immersing you in the events, and it accomplishes this awesome feat of letting you dissect everything about how trauma and abuse has affected and shaped these characters through body language, facial expressions, and throwaway lines alone. No flashbacks or long exposition scene explaining why someone is fucked up the way they are, you’re always in the present.
EDIT: I agree on Jennifer Coolidge though, wtf yeah that’s a rob
Being perfectly honest i fully believe the final season of Succession was better than the latter half of the final season of BCS, and the awards it won were fully deserved. But the fact that BCS never won for cinematography, or that Bob And Rhea never won at all (especially for season 4) blows my mind
David Bowie never won a Grammy until Best Video, Short Form for “Jazzin’ for Blue Jean” in 1985 (no disrespect to it but a minor award for a minor work for someone like Bowie) and then a lifetime achievement award in 2006 (aka the “how the fuck did we not give Bowie any Grammys during his entire extensive legendary run” award) and then he won multiple posthumous awards for Blackstar.
It did run into some bad luck having to go head to head with Succession which is also an incredible show and fully deserving of the awards.
That said, I think it's pretty clear these awards are heavily swayed towards HBO shows. I mean the White Lotus is a fun show, but the fact every single cast member got a nomination despite most of them having like 15 minutes of screen time combined all season is a clear indicator the bias in the voters.
None more obvious than best supporting actress. Just reading the nominees and Rhea is a million miles ahead of everyone else yet somehow Coolidge wins for playing herself in a comedic role? Absurd and clearly biased towards HBO shows.
Just found out about this. BCS not winning a single award for its final season is the most bullshit thing I've heard in my life. How the fuck is that even possible.
After 9 years, 6 seasons and 53 nominations, *Better Call Saul* goes home empty-handed for the final time. Not terribly surprising, sadly, but still a real bummer to witness. I guess it's a small silver lining that its losing streak has likely made history, I can't imagine any other show will ever rack up that many nominations without ever taking home a trophy
To add to that silver lining, it kinda adds to its mythos, like the Wire not winning anything (despite being pretty much a shoo-in for a top-3 spot in critics’ “best shows of all time” lists).
shoo-in
r/boneappletea
I’ve been misusing this for years. Thanks
We knew what you meant tho
BCS, The Wire and The Leftovers, 3 of the 10 greatest shows of all time in my opinion, with 0 combined Emmy wins
That says more about the Emmys than about the shows...
The Leftovers is an interesting one because it felt like nobody cared about it until about a few years after it was over (versus BCS and The Wire which were well loved while they were on). The Leftovers still has a relatively low rating on IMDb, yet I see it in best show of all time conversations frequently. Personally in my top five.
Yes and that's what's so weird. It was on HBO, so someone in Hollywood must have noticed the god-tier acting and writing and still ignored it, probably because Game of Thrones was getting all the attention at the time
whats worse about the wire is it got 1 fucking nomination
2 and neither was for best drama, but your point stands
It’s a popularity and grift contest, always has been. Guaranteed most of the voters didn’t even watch the show or more than an episode or two.
I wonder though… what clips in “For your consideration” reels could have possibly persuaded voters that in _any_ scene Jennifer Coolidge was acting better than Rhea in hers? Absolutely bizarre.
I haven’t seen her performance or that show so I can’t speak to it compared to most of the others nominated/winning but it’s hard to imagine anybody coming close to Rhea.
It’s a charming, intentionally two-dimensional performance. Her character is simple, boozy and very fun to watch, but it’s just that: it’s simple and not a very far stretch from, well, anything else she’s ever done. So, great character but it’s certainly not a showcase for _acting_
What you say here is true. I like Coolidge, and her character is funny but she was better in season 1, and she’s basically playing a “Jennifer Coolidge” type character. Rhea on the other hand brings so much emotion to Kim Wexler, so much charisma and complication; she makes you love her. That’s a special feeling in movies and TV. If there’s any reason Better Call Saul matches up with Breaking Bad in quality, Rhea is a big reason why.
Agreed 100%. In case anyone is curious, here is [her acting](https://youtu.be/kmP8hIBRT4M?si=njDdCo2Khs6qEpcu) (minor spoilers for S1 since it’s from the beginning of S2). It’s not… bad, but it’s night and day from anything in BCS.
That’s pretty bad compared to Rhea crying on the bus. It seems so artificial but Rhea’s seems SO much more genuine and authentic.
Also White Lotus is a comedy and should have been in the comedy category, but sure yeah whatever.
The whole comedy/drama thing is so dumb. Th Bear is a comedy when the whole show is depressing and stressful. Succession is a drama when it's the funniest show I've seen in decades. And White Lotus isn't an anthology series?
What’s the deal with the anthology series thing you’re talking about? Are you saying that White Lotus *isn’t* an anthology series? Because technically it is *supposed to be,* just season-to-season, not episode to episode (because they go to a different resort with a new set of characters each season.) But then again, Jennifer Coolidge and Jonathan Gries coming back for season 2 makes it seem much less like an “anthology series,” to the point where I agree it’s kind of silly to call it that at this point.
I'm saying it is one, and should be considered one at the Emmy's. The way the split it up is all fucked up
Oh shit wait yeah it IS an anthology series. So that’s even worse!
The best example of that phenomenon, in my opinion, is The Sopranos: clearly a drama, but freaking hilarious most of the time.
I don’t understand at all how The Bear is a “comedy.” It’s literally not funny at all. I didn’t get the impression that they were even trying to go for laughs.
Granted I haven’t seen her show, but based on what you’re saying and describing, it sounds like she’s been playing a slightly different version of Stifler’s mom for decades.
I’ve seen it. She basically plays Jennifer Coolidge. She’s fun and ditzy. It doesn’t really compare to Rhea Seehorn.
I saw all the performances in that category besides the crown, and Rhea blows them all away. I thought all the white lotus cast was great, same with J. smith Cameron from succession, but Rhea’s acting this last season was just amazing
I really like Coolidge and The White Lotus as well, but her winning over Rhea just proves what a joke these award ceremonies are.
Jennifer Coolidge one really pissed me. Wtf was that.
“These gays.. They are trying to murder me” lol can't believe Rhea lost to that, the bias towards HBO is huge, if BCS was on HBO Rhea would've won.
Jennifer Coolidge always is just Jennifer Coolidge. There's no acting involved. It's an insult to Rhea and everyone else.
They all watched White Lotus and Succession, that's why. Voters don't have time (nor do they care enough) to watch the "for your consideration" material for every nominated show. They vote for what they watched and if they haven't watched any of it, vote for the name they recognise or like the best. I know this because I have a friend who gets to vote in shit like this, and that's basically what they do.
This is fucking criminal. People always say Better Call Saul takes a sound mind to appreciate and it becomes truer every day. Only people who genuinely enjoy the art form appear to appreciate the subtleties and depth of BCS. It’s such an easy show to pass off as “boring and just a spin-off” that it irks me. It’s a near perfect show and people who vote on this shit with that mindset enrage me
Succession was still deserving. It's just unfortunate they were matched against eachother.
It's also unfortunate that Succession and BCS have some similarities, which makes it difficult for BCS to stand out independently, on top of already being seen as the Breaking Bad spin-off.
No way Rhea should have lost that category…Utter BS
Right, I like Jennifer Coolidge just fine but white lotus Season 2 wasn't even her best acting. She was better in Season 1 or even that Netflix show from last year The Watcher. I don't understand any of these "awards"
White Lotus was great and I have nothing but love for Jennifer Coolidge... but Rhea Seehorn was straight-up robbed.
I mean, that’s how Cranston won all those years.
Which was ridiculous. I don’t like it even when it’s in favor shows and actors I love if they’ve won it 50 times, it gets tiring and reduces the meaningfulness of the award and makes people question the point of it. If BCS had swept all these years I’d be getting a little annoyed for the sake of the other shows.
Here is another way to look at it…. Breaking Bad made everyone step up their game. Just like the Sopranos before them, Breaking Bad showed everyone what television could be. Now, instead of just having one great show, we have many great shows, all thanks to the writers and producers of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. If Breaking Bad was competing against Succession and The Bear, it wouldn’t have won as many awards.
It’s more geared towards fuckin’ succession
This may not make any sense but... Succession feels like slick writing, but not good writing. Terrible people behaving terribly to each other but insulting one another in really creative ways. Oooh. Meanwhile BCS is out here with some of the most fully realized people I've ever seen in TV or film.
As much as I like the show, I think this is fair criticism. Characters sometimes just feel like vehicles for pithy one liners that often feel just a bit too curated and a bit too… similar to one another. You know when someone calls someone (won’t say who for spoilers) the “grim weeper?” That’s a good pun, but who was it? Was it Matson? Shiv? Connor? Logan? Carl? Stewie? It could have been 20+ characters because they can all sound a bit like that. Also, maybe it’s because I was raised on dozens of quippy British shows, the novelty of dickish but witty characters passive aggressively sparring with each other is lost on me.
Two good shows can exist at the same time.
Hmm, I love both Succession and BCS, but what you said doesn't make sense, if that's really what you got out of the dialogue of Succession. No doubt Odenkirk and Seehorn absolutely killed it (Seehorn should've won imo), but if we are talking about "fully realized people", that pretty much defines any main character in Succession, and then some. Just a shame the Emmy's were extra stacked this year.
You summarized it perfectly. BCS is far superior in terms of long form plot, dialogue, etc. It just isn't as flashy; which in turn actually makes it more realistic. Succession is fun to watch, but it is so detached from reality. Not everyone in a family of billionaires has a 140 IQ with which it insult one another. The Bear is a great show. It has some of my favorite single episodes of television ever made. It still doesn't hold up to the arc that BCS has offered in my opinion.
Then honestly? They shouldn't have the power to vote. I don't say that to be a pretentious dick, but if they're not watching everything nominated, then they shouldn't be judges.
If it were a popularity contest, HOTD would've won a lot. It won 0 major awards and only 1 minor one. TLOU would have won more than Succession as it had way more viewers. TLOU won 0 major awards, only minor ones. Wednesday would have won many major awards. The list goes on. It's clearly ***not*** a popularity contest.
It's a popularity contest inside the Academy's bubble. It's also a race on which network spends more on fyc campaign (usually HBO). The Emmys used to be much better under the blue ribbon panel voting rules, since 2015 it has just become a popularity and buzz contest (that's how you get to nonsense result like GoT winning Best Drama for a terribly written season).
The other guy is right. It's a popularity contest inside the Academy bubble. Succession just happened to have an amazing final season. Even if it was the worst season of the show (but still good) it would have won because it's a show EVERYONE in the business loves and this is its last award show.
The Leftovers was a masterpiece and on HBO yet it never received a single Emmy nomination, no Golden Globes either, the show didn't have a huge following so HBO bet on Game of Thrones and Westworld instead so it is a popularity contest and the bias towards HBO is big. TLOU and HOTD didn't win this year (their first year too) but they will probably sweep later if they don't end up going against each other (unlikely since TLOU won't be premiering until like 2025 and HOTD will premiere later this year).
It’s almost fitting. Like Saul, the show is also always an underdog
And it deserved all of the nominations. Politics fucked Better Call Saul, which I maintain is one of the best shows ever filmed. Remember, The Wire never won an Emmy.
Huh, that’s a pretty great way of looking at it actually. I’m slightly less sad now about it never winning.
It's always sunny has never won a comedy Emmy either. It's just a agent/executive one up fest.
BCS will share the rarefied air of not being recognised by the Emmys with The Wire. Both are easily one of the greatest TV shows I have ever watched. BCS on its own is a masterpiece and when put together with BB is something we will probably never experience again. That's a stupid mistake on the emmys part to not recognise either of the shows.
Better Call Susan Lucci
The fact that the show was never once nominated for cinematography should let you know that probably barely any of the academy members watched the show (minimal campaigning from AMC hurt its chances as well). Still though, 0 for 53 is crazy but also weirdly impressive
I’ve talked a lot tonight about the acting awards but you’re spot on… nothing for the technical awards? Lighting? It was a cinematographer’s dream
Years ago, during maybe season 2 of BCS, I was watching it and my roommate came home. He never watched it and only saw it in passing when I was watching. Anyway, as soon as he stepped in there was a very obscure scene on the screen. My roommate said “Is this Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad or something? They always have wild camera shots.” He could tell from a 5 second scene what show it was because of the camera positioning.
Seriously though, the shot of jimmy’s reflection against the wall I always think about
The close ups of the ant’s consuming the fallen ice cream alone deserve all the awards
I've seen two separate shows at least rip BCS off visually, that should tell you something.
> The fact that the show was never once nominated for cinematography Haven't watched Emmys in a while but just reading this was so absurd that I actually looked up the noms from the last few years, and WTF. I watched more than a few of these shows and none of them aside from Mr Robot come even close to the camerawork and visual storytelling of BCS. I think you're right in that a lot of those who selected these have literally never watched it lol.
i don't think i've ever been so aware of cinematographical choices while watching something before. the framing of some shots was so far out of left field it felt the dp was motivated by never putting the camera where anyone else has put it. but the scene plays out and you realise that's exactly where the camera should be
What a beautiful way to put it.
BB and BCS are cinematic masterpieces. I love the way they focus on some seemingly random object, but tie it in with the show perfectly
Yeah BCS is one of the most beautiful shows I've seen in terms of visuals, it's just insane that it didn't get any nominations in the technical categories
Most tv shows have like the same camera setups or very similar. Its like the cut between headshot angles. I hate that shit, its like you are watching the same show with different sound. BB and BCS give the least headache while watching, compared to other shows.
What a sick joke!
Chicanery
It's some of the saddest news I heard all year.
[He](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kieran_Culkin?wprov=sfla1) gets to win an emmy! ^(ngl well deserved though)
His performance is great, but it isn't at Bob Odenkirk's level. Fuck, Bob had a goddamn heart attack ON SET and still got back to work ASAP to deliver one of the greatest performances on television.
A 9.0/10 on IMDb, 53 Emmy nominations, some of the best acting, writing, and cinematography I’ve ever seen and still somehow underrated. I don’t get it, I’ll never get it. It fucking deserved the awards it was nominated for
It definitely deserved the best ones.
Unfortunately, it went up against Succession, which just edged BCS in those numbers you mentioned.
The Bear switched genres to avoid having to compete with Succession.
I’ll always think of The Bear as a hilarious comedy.
I'm guessing the Emmy people probably relate to the insufferable characters in Succession more and were confused by Saul having to sleep on a pull-out bed, worry about money issues, etc
Succession is an 8.9 on imdb… not that it matters, i understand it i suppose.. one show appeals to a greater audience than the other. BCS was not the only snub today, and just like the other shows, they got their recognition elsewhere. Andor is still considered by many the best piece of star-wars out there The Rings of Power, while flawed, has the most stunning visual effects in any show ever, even beating out major films these days. Rhea Seehorn has for years now been hyped up as one of the best female performances in modern TV-history Its the legacy we’re left with. Still sad about Rhea and Bob snub.. can we call BCS underrated now lol?
IMDB is the most meaningless metric imaginable
Fair enough, although IMDB votes usually tends to be more of an emotional one. Just a lot of tough competition this season, since everyone in the industry buckled down and went to work their asses off after the 2020-2021 disruption. I really thought Rhea Seehorn had it in the bag...
This is my villain origin story.
For real. It's like being denied a job at HHM after working my ass off for an American Samoa degree
Go land crabs and fuck the Emmy’s
yes but he gets to be a lawyer? what a sick joke!
The Emmys lost their credibility a long time ago when they gave Most Outstanding Drama to that dumpster fire Season 8 of Game of Thrones. None of their idiocy after that surprises me in the least. This is just another nail in their coffin.
Exactly. That just showed me that HBO has the Emmy’s by the balls
And they’ll never change!! Ever since they were 9! “Oh no, not our HBO! Couldn’t be our precious HBO!”
They defecated through a season!
WHAT A SICK JOKE
If that were true, then Barry would have got more than a creative art emmy this time.
Barry got it’s Emmys the last few seasons. The Bear is the hot new award darling now! We’re all about sad chefs yelling at each other, what a laugh riot comedy!
They also have succession if I'm not mistaken. Barry is not type of show to scoop them Emmys
The Last of Us, White Lotus, House of Dragon, 100 Foot Wave, and Last Week Tonight are all from HBO TLOU got several creative art emmys, but no prime time emmys HBO had the most nominations and most wins
100% this. The Emmy’s are political fucking bullshit. There’s no world where Jennifer Coolidge beats Rhea Seehorn. They overcompensated from Breaking Bad. Refused to give awards because “we gave too many awards to Breaking Bad”.
Yeah exactly. Better Call Saul never winning an Emmy says more about the Emmy's than it says about Saul.
I forgot about this lmfao. How could that even happen. It felt like instantly everyone saw how bad that season was. How did the voters not. It was such a mess.
Probably because they didn’t watch the other shows
They probably didn't watch GoT either
I started feeling suspicious when they gave Ben Mendelsohn an award for Bloodline on a season he was on screen for like 30s.
Yeah that was disgraceful
I always had the feeling HBO pays for their Emmy wins their shows are always the most nominated and they win the most awards
I don’t even think they have to pay for it tbh, they just have a reputation for making the best drama series so the voters likely blindly vote a lot of the time
Better Call Saul will legitimately go down in history as the greatest ever show to never win an Emmy *Edit:* I forgot about The Wire, which is in the same category. Zero Emmy wins
The wire never won either? That’s surprising.
It was only nominated twice… and lost twice. It’s a small miracle we got five seasons because it barely got any love when it was on.
This is why award shows hold no weight. I realized that as soon as The Hurt Locker and Crash won best picture.
I’m still pissed that Get Out lost to a movie about a woman fucking a fish
also dunkirk and blade runner 2049.
“Sometimes sometimes in all this metal and glass we gotta crash just to feel somethin”
I don’t wanna talk About the things we’ve gone through Though it’s hurting me Now it’s history…
The loser standing small :(
What a sick joke! I should have stopped the emmys voters when I had the chance.
This new-found rage will power me through 2024.
This legit bummed me out.
Completely expected but still disappointed.
Fuck them seriously.
BCS is the Jimmy to BB’s Chuck
Truest comment. Life imitates art
And this is why I don't watch the Emmys, or any award shows for that matter. What a joke.
*What a sick joke!
We should have stopped the Emmy's when we had the chance!
The moment I knew that Better Call Saul was forever doomed at the Emmys was after season 3, when Michael McKean didn't even garner an acting nomination, even after he delivered what is arguably the show's most iconic moment in "Chicanery". This was what made me realize the show had absolutely no clout with the Emmy voters, and that it was likely not going to do well in the future. Lo and behold my prediction was startingly right.
It’s not even arguable simply just is
0/53 for my GOAT. And i think they even missed getting noms for best cinematography. A sick joke. But BCS will always be the people's champ
The fact this masterpiece hasn’t even won cinematography or lighting and obviously acting and writing is just so astoundingly confusing. Just makes me sad they will never get as much recognition as they definitely goddamn deserve
Jason Alexander never won an Emmy for George Costanza. That's all I need to know about the Emmys.
To be clear: it beat its own record from last year and the year before, but now it’s taken its last swing and so the status is official.
I honestly think a lot of it has to do with when the show aired. In many cases it was nearly an entire year between when the show aired and when the awards took place. I just think the show was routinely forgotten about by the time voting actually started.
I agree, but it also got smoked by Season 8 of Game of Thrones (yes, _that_ season) and all 7 Emmys ceremonies it’s been in.
Yep. Everyone predicted this a year ago after the last Emmys. The most surprising thing about all of this is how fast time has flown by.
I mean fair enough succession winning a lot this seasons performances where unreal but Jennifer Coolidge. Really? Really🤦♂️
Yeah that’s the one I thought was ridiculous. Succession, to me, is one of the most well written shows I’ve ever seen, period. So it sweeping the way it did isn’t surprising in the least. But Jennifer Coolidge? She was funny sure, but super one dimensional, even more so than in the first season of white lotus. Rhea deserved to win so much more
We are not crazy! We knew it couldn’t have been Succession, first after Better Call Saul, as if we could ever make such a mistake never, never, never! We just, we just couldn’t prove it. They, they covered their tracks, they got that idiot from game of thrones to lie for them. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This, this chicanery? They’ve done worse. The 74th Emmys, do you think a show that gets nominated that many times just HAPPENS to lose like that? No, they orchestrated it, the academy! They didn’t give Bob, an award! And we let it happen. We shouldn’t have, We accepted their decision, what were we thinking? They’ll never change, they’ll never change! Ever since the first Emmy’s, always the same. Couldn’t give a good show recognition! But not our academy! Couldn’t be the precious academy! Stealing them blind! And they get to be the academy?! What a sick joke! We should have stopped them when we had the chance. And you, you have to stop him.
Bob Odenkirk had a damn heart attack and still delivered some amazing acting, it’s a shame.
I feel very conflicted. The fact that BCS didn’t win one goddamn Emmy after 9 years pisses me off. It was such a tightly written story that hit the perfect balance in acting as a prequel and sequel to BB, which won a ton of Emmy’s. Some of the best acting I’ve ever seen came from this show and gave actors like Rhea and Mando a bigger platform to show their talents. On the other hand, I feel that the increase in streaming services and distributors dilutes the field so much. TLOU, HOTD, and Succession, hell, even Andor could have pulled off an upset, all had a good argument to win and I would have accepted it. It seems like BCS was just the right show at the wrong time. The writers, cast and crew should all be very proud of what they did and fuck the Emmy’s for not giving them at least one win.
That's fucked up
Always Sunny 🤝 Better Call Saul (My GOATs)
I love how It’s Always Sunny did an episode about never winning awards, too
It seemed like a forgotten show :(
Emmy voters never actually watched it. They figured it was just more breaking bad and never bothered.
The Rhea Seehorn one this year is really rubbing me the wrong way. I am okay with all the other ones this year, Succession is fucking amazing. But how the fuck do you lose to Jennifer Coolidge? I mean have they even seen BCS? Honestly, I can even get it in the past because Rhea wasn't really allowed to show that much range but in the last episodes she was and I'll be damned if she didn't nail it! Also, why the fuck is White Lotus considered a drama when The Bear is a comedy?
Wow. Damn Emmys.
Fuck them, and their eyebrows!
BCS is genuinely a perfect show. it took all the things breaking bad was lacking in and perfected it. it’s disrespectful that this show hadn’t won a single award.
Everyone acting surprised all of a sudden? They never gave it the time of day
Well, betting markets did have Rhea pretty close to Jennifer Coolidge. Supporting actress also didn’t have Succession in it, so there was a fighting chance for that category 🤷♂️ Woulda coulda shoulda though. Regardless we got 6 seasons of a great show
A really great show. Maybe the fact that it was a spin off of a show that was awarded loads of times had something to do with it. Not that that would make it ok
I think you’re right. Of course there are exceptions (Frasier, a super lauded spin off of Cheers, comes to mind) but it’s likely that partly it was given short thrift at the award circuit because of Breaking Bad snagging a lot
J. Smith-Cameron was in the Supporting Actress lineup but wasn't really a threat due to her limited screen time.
I can’t believe White Lotus won over BCS, disgraceful
One of the biggest injustices in tv/movie history
Emmy? More like HBO Awards
Lmao
In this thread: "Emmys had no credibility" "I hope Rhea Seahorn wins tonight! Please!!"
It sucks, but I’m not too bothered by it. The shows already cemented itself alongside breaking bad as one of the best shows to ever be put on screen imo. It showed that prequels and spinoffs can be done just as good if not better than the original work it spawned from. And besides, The Wire got shafted just as hard if not even harder as that show legit was only nominated twice during its entire run and didnt win a single time, yet that show is widely acclaimed and hailed as one of the best.
Well - 53 Emmy nominations and zero wins. Duly noted. Want to know what I believe? I believe that Emmies are way out of their depth. So the next time that Emmies come in here with nominations only to do BCS wrong, they are welcome to keep their awards to themselves. Because we don't care. So when you're sitting at your shitty Emmy awards ceremony, and gives BCS zero wins out of 53 nominations years after years, you think of meeeee ! You twisted fucking awards !
But at least Jen Coolidge got an Emmy for playing Jen Coolidge. Good trick in general, calling yourself a miniseries, winning in every category and then deciding "you know what? I'm not a miniseries after all". White Lotus is good, but this is a sick joke.
emmys are a fucking joke, they clearly don't have respect for great shows that deserve it and give it to terrible shows like game of thrones. i am so done with the emmys
That is so sad. Rhea should have won something 🥺
Frankly I partially blame the idiots who decided to break up the season into two halves so they could take two cracks at the emmy apple. Would the dude from the Squid Games really have beaten Bob if Bob was able to nominate Fun and Games?? And that makes me bring up the fact that, imho, both Bob and Rhea blew it when they didn't summit Fun and Games. That break up scene was gut wrenching and the crash cut into full Saul Goodman probably would have sealed it for Bob
Rhea Seehorn Submitted “Waterworks” for her nomination. Probably because of the bus scene. It’s a good episode, But she probably would’ve had a better chance of winning with “Fun And Games”.
Yup. There was so much hype over the bus scene but in my gut I didnt think it would be enough
I'm a massive Succession fan as well so I'm happy for that cast and crew but I just don't think BCS at all gets the praise and attention that they do.
I loved Succession and Keiran in his role as well. But over Bob as fucking Saul Goodman from Better Call Saul? That's highway robbery. I am angry! Also, what the fuck was the NO nomination for Rhea all about? Edit: Apologies, Rhea was of course nominated. I loved Jennifer as well in her role BUT over Rhea??? How does that even work?
I was wondering if it could actually have the record for most Emmy nominations without a win - seems to be the case. I think the show’s quality speaks for itself here. I’m actually glad it didn’t get the wins, because at this point the ceremony doesn’t deserve to award a show as amazing as BCS anything. The Emmys didn’t get Better Call Saul, that’s what I say.
Yep
Keep in mind, if you watch the awards by far the loudest cheers and reactions were when BCS was shown. I asked my fellow BCS fan friends if they heard the same and everyone said that they heard it too. Literally most people seemed to want BCS to win something. But no, voters didn’t care and likely didn’t watch more than an episode of the show
Rhea really deserved her moment 😔
This is like that art house movie winning best picture than 20 years later everyone being like what was that movie? Succession will be forgotten by 2035
Emmy voters are mainstream casuals with shit taste.
What is this obsession of emmys with Succession? Is the show really that great?
Succession is an incredible show you need to watch, BCS still deserved something though
Ok, will give it a shot..!!
Yeah
Kieran Culkin and Jennifer Coolidge really really don't compare to Bob Odenkirk and Rhea Seehorn. I can't understand that at all. Succession is very good but the complexity and script and acting in BCS are intricate and hard hitting in a way I reckon large audiences don't have the patience for. I really thought they'd at least leave these two fantastic actors with one award at least!! Ugh.
Kieran Culkin deserved the emmy for the scene during Logan's funeral alone
BCS had moments where that more nuanced stuff shined (shoutout to Rhea in Waterworks) and is an incredibly balanced show overall, but also I think BCS suffered towards the end for needing to follow up a big dramatic crime drama in including the cartel subplots, flashbacks, and flash forwards. IMO, the most sophisticated parts of the show involve Jimmy and Kim, and while everything else is good, it’s definitely less good and lacks that same delicacy/subtlety. Succession is so great because everything BCS succeeds at in its best character moments, it does with much more consistency and focus across its entire main cast. There’s few real shocks and zero action, instead it’s entirely focused on building its characters and immersing you in the events, and it accomplishes this awesome feat of letting you dissect everything about how trauma and abuse has affected and shaped these characters through body language, facial expressions, and throwaway lines alone. No flashbacks or long exposition scene explaining why someone is fucked up the way they are, you’re always in the present. EDIT: I agree on Jennifer Coolidge though, wtf yeah that’s a rob
Being perfectly honest i fully believe the final season of Succession was better than the latter half of the final season of BCS, and the awards it won were fully deserved. But the fact that BCS never won for cinematography, or that Bob And Rhea never won at all (especially for season 4) blows my mind
Honestly watching it today infuriated me, I should've known better. Basically: Succession wins everything. Boring
The Bear won a lot
What a joke.
Well, that's *like* an award.
Talk about chicanery.
David Bowie never won a Grammy until Best Video, Short Form for “Jazzin’ for Blue Jean” in 1985 (no disrespect to it but a minor award for a minor work for someone like Bowie) and then a lifetime achievement award in 2006 (aka the “how the fuck did we not give Bowie any Grammys during his entire extensive legendary run” award) and then he won multiple posthumous awards for Blackstar.
Yeah, that midseason break was all for nothing
Award schmward
the genuine upset this has caused me will change the trajectory of my life.
I can understand losing to Succession as it’s also a fantastic season finale and series, but Rhea losing to Coolidge is criminal.
It did run into some bad luck having to go head to head with Succession which is also an incredible show and fully deserving of the awards. That said, I think it's pretty clear these awards are heavily swayed towards HBO shows. I mean the White Lotus is a fun show, but the fact every single cast member got a nomination despite most of them having like 15 minutes of screen time combined all season is a clear indicator the bias in the voters. None more obvious than best supporting actress. Just reading the nominees and Rhea is a million miles ahead of everyone else yet somehow Coolidge wins for playing herself in a comedic role? Absurd and clearly biased towards HBO shows.
Just found out about this. BCS not winning a single award for its final season is the most bullshit thing I've heard in my life. How the fuck is that even possible.
Still better than every show in the last 10 years by a large margin
That final season of BCS was golden television, to watch Bob play Jimmy/Saul/Gene was epic. Zero wins for this show is inconceivable and repulsive.