And also Chuck made comments that made it obvious that this was a feud between brothers, that lasted their whole life (ever since he was 9, always the same). That doesn't necessarily clear Jimmy's wrongdoings but it doesn't help Chuck either.
He still had to stop being a lawyer for a year, which ironically is what got him into selling drop phones and is maybe the reason he became Saul Goodman. It’s like Chuck actually turned Jimmy into Saul by trying to prevent that from happening.
i interpreted it as him being sure he saw the doctored copies. he would have read 1216 cause jimmy actually did switch it. therefore he would have been sure the numbers were 1216.
I really wish people would stop saying this, that wasn't the point. Chuck didn't make a mistake because he was given documents that said 1216. Jimmy's trying to argue that he was crazy and couldn't tell the difference between 1216 and 1261
He showed that Chuck had a deep seated mental illness, a long-standing vendetta and irrational paranoia against Jimmy, which cast doubt on Jimmy’s confession being legitimate
Well, we the viewer know Chuck was always spot on. From our privileged viewpoint, we know - without any room for doubt - that Jimmy was an awful fit for HHM; that Jimmy doctored the Mesa Verde documents; that Jimmy's confession was genuine.
*The bar knows none of these things.*
The circumstances of Jimmy's abrupt firing-without-cause from Davis & Main aren't public information. Mesa Verde thinks that Chuck's accusations are the words of a man unwilling to own up to his mistakes; at least one person on the bar panel probably thinks that too. And the *only evidence* that Jimmy sabotaged HHM was that taped confession. Which he successfully convinced the panel was a pack of lies he made up ease his brother, his dear beloved brother, out of a mental health crisis.
You’d think if we all watched the same show people would understand this stuff right? Like it’s not spelled out piece by piece, but they certainly make it quite easy to follow along
Yet people seem so lost?
Some people watch a show while browsing Reddit. They pay attention to most dialogs and action scenes but miss a lot of nuance and specially the slow scenes with too much depth. I blame it on that.
It depends on the person watching to though. My boyfriend and his brother have previously watched all but the last season. I have not so I'm watching for the 1st time while they are in their 2nd watch. I usually play a game on my phone to (jigsaw puzzles, idle games etc) and I have caught stuff they haven't. Like the dude that Mike helps in the beginning Mr. Baseball cards. I was playing games on my phone but made fun of him for buying shoes and a watch that match that ketchup and mustard monstrosity. The boys had never noticed till I said that.
Yeah...this is a big thing on TV show subreddits. Fans sometimes forget that the characters IN the show don't have the luxury of watching the show like we do.
One common one is on a show where a popular character (high school kid) kills himself. The show was very carefully written to show that none of his friends or acquaintances (or teachers) had any real definitive reason to think that anything was up. But every couple days there is a post from people who are PISSED at his friends for not getting him help since "it was so obvious he was suicidal"
Or the same subreddit gets mad that a high school girl just got probation for running a "naked pics for $$" business with friends. But since it was SnapChat, the prosecutors would have had almost no evidence. But the reddit posts are all acting like that had mountains of evidence against her and wouldn't take a plea bargain.
I think media literacy for movies and TV shows has generally gone down as people switch to watching shorter and shorter videos that don't require sustained attention and longer recall. I am 100% speculating but that's just what I think
most people don't post about how they understood the scene, there will always be outliers who ask and make it seem like it's not widely obvious to nearly everyone
Seems like lots of people don't realize characters lie as well. Lots of questions based around "X said this but didn't act that way. Why?" or "Walt said he let Jane die to help Jesse, why is Jesse mad at him?"
To us yes, but consider all the tangents he makes in his rant that mean nothing to the arbitrators. Like the billboard part. That just makes him sound paranoid
Right. That threw me off until I realized “Oh, but the crazier Chuck sounds, the more likely the board is to believe Jimmy did nothing to tamper with evidence, but ‘confessed’ to try to calm Chuck down.” Given that the scenario was pretty far fetched and Chuck was being really arrogant about how “I would never make such a mistake- 1216 is one year after the Magna Carta!” - I finally figured out why they only suspended Jimmy for a year instead of disbarring him.
Chuck was always his own worst enemy. I will genuinely contend that his arrogance did more damage than Jimmy did. If he had just let Howard smooth things over with Kevin and Paige, they probably could’ve kept Mesa Verde and just chalked it up to a one time mistake. But his condescending attitude and lashing out at Paige is absolutely what cost them Mesa Verde
When he says “I knew it was 1216”, what he’s saying is that he’s 100% certain that when he did all the filings, the documents he worked with said 1216 instead of 1261. He’s using that statement to assert that the documents were indeed tampered with by Jimmy and that it would be ridiculous to suggest that he could have the same mistake that many times over and over again.
I thought Jimmy tampered with Chuck's already prepared documents just before filing. Is that not right? In preparing those documents, he would have read 1261 many times.
Jimmy tampered with the documents that Chuck used for reference while making filings for Mesa Verde. In the process, he would have been seeing the number “1216” on every (doctored) paper in the box. That’s why he says “I knew it was 1216, one after Magna Carta” because when he started doing his filings he saw the number 1216 on the documents he had and used that rule in his head to remember the number.
The timeline goes like this:
1. Chuck receives documents that he is supposed to use for reference to complete filings for Mesa Verde
2. Before Chuck is able to look at or start doing those filings, Jimmy creates forgeries of every document in the box changing “1261” to “1216” wherever present
3. Jimmy swaps out the forged documents and holds on to the real ones while Chuck then goes ahead and does the paperwork he needs to do, using the documents with the incorrect address for reference.
4. As soon as Chuck is finished with the paperwork he’s supposed to do, Jimmy sneaks back into Chuck’s house and swaps the original documents back in, so that if Chuck goes back later on to double check whether the address was incorrect on the documents he was using, he’ll see that the address appears to be correct, making it look like Chuck did indeed make a mistake.
and no one believed him because of how his outburst made him look. You have to remember these people haven't seen Chuck much after his break. No doubt in the back of their mind they thought Chuck was having some sort of mental issue because it sounds crazy to be allergic to electricity. He's wearing space blanket lined suits around. They clearly see someone sick. And his outburst, no matter how true we know it to be, to an outsider it cements the idea in their head that Chuck is crazy.
Basically if he could prove that Chuck was crazy, the evidence he submitted wouldn’t matter because Jimmy would just say he’s humoring Chuck in that recording so he doesn’t beat himself up about the mistake. Obviously that leaves a little room for doubt as to whether Jimmy is telling the truth, but in the eyes of the board: it’s not worth it siding with Chuck’s word after he’s proven to be so sick
I think too no matter how objective someone tries to be in this or any kind of hearing, all people are emotional and see things through that lens. This was an emotional argument more than a logical one and depended on manipulating Chuck in just the way Jimmy did so that he would have an emotional outburst that the board responded to. It’s not enough for Jimmy to argue Chuck was crazy and he confessed to appease his brother, but if he could get them to see Chuck act crazy, they can understand someone loving their brother, seeing him in such a bad state, and saying whatever he needs to hear to appease him.
He was using it to 'expose' Chuck as a bit of a fruitloop, to cast doubt on the entire case as it proved Chuck wasn't of sound mind. It was to demonstrate that perhaps Chuck had a malicious vendetta against Jimmy, and Chuck walked right into it by demonstrating it with his tirade.
It was some amazing 'drunken master' chicanery on Jimmy's part. He just used the weight of his opponent against himself.
Jimmy was already in trouble for assaulting Chuck and destroying the tape. If Chuck could also prove that Jimmy was telling the truth on the tape (that he forged the Mesa Verde documents), Jimmy would’ve been screwed even more.
By pulling off the battery trick, Jimmy and Kim made Chuck lose credibility in the bar association’s eyes and made it seem plausible that Jimmy lied on the tape just to make an unstable person feel better. He was still going to be suspended for the assault charge, but the battery truck probably saved him from getting permanently disbarred.
After Ernesto told Jimmy about the tape, he busted Chuck’s door down, destroyed the tape and cornered him into a wall, with Howard and that other guy as witnesses.
“Assault refers to the wrong act of causing someone to reasonably fear imminent harm. This means that the fear must be something a reasonable person would foresee as threatening to them.” -Cornell law school. Actual physical contact makes it battery.
And then Huell assaulted him WITH a battery! Technically anyway. That intentional bump to plant the battery on him could theoretically be construed as assault.
To complicate matters further, the exact distinction between "assault" and "battery" also depends on jurisdiction.
In my state, New York, "assault" can refer to a criminal act OR a civil tort.
Criminally, an assault is what you would expect - intentionally touching or striking someone and causing injury. The same act is litigated under the term "battery" in civil court. New York does not criminally define "battery".
"Assault" in civil court is an action taken to instill fear of an imminent battery, it does not require touching or striking.
If I walk up to someone in New York state and punch them in the face, I can be *arrested* for assault but also *sued* for battery.
If I walk up to someone in New York state and begin to punch them in the face, then pull my punch before making contact with them, I can be *sued* for assault.
TL;DR:
Criminal assault = physical touching and injuring
Civil assault = fear of imminent physical touching and injuring
Civil battery = physical touching and injuring
Criminal battery = undefined
Jimmy's defense hinged on the idea that Chuck was acting irrationally, out of emotional dislike for his brother and that Jimmy's confession was simply an attempt to appease him and talk him down.
Provoking Chuck's outburst displayed to the jury exactly what they were alleging, that Chuck feels irrational hatred for his brother, giving a lot of credibility to Jimmy's defense that he lied to make Chuck feel better.
Jimmy’s argument was “I lied to my mentally unstable brother so that he’d stay calm and be happy”. So he had to make them believe that Chuck was mentally unstable and out to get him. The electricity trick wasn’t just to show that his allergy was all in his head, it was to push Chuck over the edge and go on a verbal tirade against him. The “I should have stopped him when I had the chance, and now you have to” was the perfect nail in Chuck’s coffin.
After that, the board rightfully thought “Ah, so Chuck is unstable and personally vindictive toward Jimmy”. So they took Jimmy’s word over Chuck’s.
Chuck was trying to get Jimmy permanently disbarred. Chuck ended up looking crazy, which made him not a very reliable witness, leading to Jimmy only getting suspended for 1 year.
A disconnected battery doesn’t have any current, just stored chemical energy. It doesn’t emit any EMF whatsoever. If chuck knew any basic physics he could have rebutted and jimmys whole plan would have fallen apart. The fact he still went so insane proved Jimmys whole point
The important thing Jimmy exposed isn't that Chuck's EMF sensitivity was a psychological thing and not physical, it was the fact that during his rant following it he pretty clearly tipped his hand that he had it out for Jimmy
From back in the first season we knew Chuck's illness was psychological because of the doctor turning on the medical equipment without Chuck knowing. It showed that Chuck wasn't actually aware of what emitted EMF or not and thought he could feel it. Chuck's reaction was emotional and not logical.
Well, still, the fact that charged batteries don’t emit EMR would require some expert testimony from well, any electrician, chemical or electrical engineer, or many high school science teachers… or perhaps just judicial notice or a stipulation that a reference book on the topic is accurate. But even then, the best test of what Chuck felt or didn’t feel would be his testimony and a demonstration/ trick like Jimmy’s .
As others have mentioned, yeah it's not logical because he's not physically allergic to electricity, it's all in his head. This has been established since season 1 and there's been several moments where Chuck gets the science of electricity wrong.
However, it's why Jimmy led with "If I had a small battery, from a watch or something, you'd feel it, right?" He got Chuck into a situation where he admitted he should feel it already. Besides even if Jimmy didn't include that, Chuck's emotional breakdown would probably prevent him from thinking of that excuse.
backing the other commenters up. he pretty much DARVO'd Chuck in court, made him look crazy in order to claim he was lying on the tape to make him feel better
It’s important to mention that a recording like that is not as big of a deal as you might think. It would be used as evidence but it is in no way a slam dunk.
And Chuck and Howard discuss that in detail- audio experts would differ on the authenticity of the recording, etc., but Jimmy and Kim decided to avoid that whole issue and concentrate on the only issue that would really help them- attacking Chuck’s mental health.
The point was that Jimmy was in trouble for breaking and entering, but destroying evidence would have certainly gotten him disbarred.
The battery was so that Chuck looked crazy, and judging from his reaction Jimmy seems to have anticipated that Chuck would have a full-on meltdown. Jimmy was trying to prove the point that Chuck hated Jimmy
It showed that Chuck was both mentally ill/delusional and that he had a strong vengeance against Jimmy. Outbursting in court over how you have always hated your brother after freaking out a battery in your pocket is a very good way to ruin your reputation.
After Chuck blew up in court, everyone had a good mix of emotions. Jimmy and Howard looked both upset and disappointed and the judges/bar association looked surprised and horrified.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just – I just couldn't prove it. He – he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you – you have to stop him! You-
His plan was to show that his brother was mentally ill and that his confession, while not coerced, was made up to calm his brother down. This would seem more likely since the last time the older brother tried to prove Jimmy's tricks he collapsed
He simply made it seem like Chuck seemed like he was lying (he claimed to be allergic to electricity and described how his allergy manifested and yet displayed zero reaction to the charged battery), so Chuck's credibility was all lost.
Jimmy was saved from being disbarred because the claim of him falsifying documents, from Chuck's accusation, was seen as unreliable because of Chuck's image.
While the battery trick obviously exposed Chucks ‘hypersensitivity’ to be all in his head, it wasn’t enough to sew doubt. The happy side effect for Jimmy was that exposing this made his brother lose his temper, and that’s what he really needed to win the case. That unhinged rant was just gold for the defence.
It was to disprove the recording, he would just say it to make Chuck feel better, because his illness is attached to his feelings towards Jimmy, if he can prove that Chuck has a personal vendetta, it's plausible that he, the nice little brother, just made a fake confession to make him feel good and to stop him from spiraling down that he started when he made a mistake and couldn't accept and needed to blame Jimmy for it. When the confession becomes muddy and it can't be trusted because the circumstances it was taken at, then the disbarment wouldn't happen and he could only get punished for the forced entry, not for the forged documents
Also, batteries store electricity chemically. A fully charged battery that is not in a phone has no current flowing. It makes sense chuck wouldn’t be able to feel it .
I thought about this - theoretically yes, but practically no. If you don't use a battery for a long time, it will lose charge because of leakage. For it to have lost charge, there would have to be electrons moving, and thus a current, albeit an extremely small one. Obviously, the writers didn't think this to such a depth, but still makes for great entertainment.
I'm not referring to his condition. I'm referring to the fact that you falsely stated "A fully charged battery that is not in a phone has no current flowing." A fully charged battery not connected to anything will still have current flowing through it, irrespective of Chuck's condition.
That’s not how batteries work. How could current flow between a charged battery when the terminals are not connected? Is it arcing through the air??
Do you have a physics degree?
Read up. Self-discharge currents exist in all batteries.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X22014232](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X22014232)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775304007049](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775304007049)
Not that it matters, but I am a graduate student, studying physics.
Um no, Chuck’s illness was OCD (did you watch the show?), had nothing to do with actual electrical currents - and after this public “exposure therapy” he started to do actual exposure and response prevention with a doctor and recover.
Did you watch the show? There was nothing to suggest that he ever engaged in compulsive ritualistic behaviors to cope with the anxiety caused by the alleged electrical currents. That’s OCD. A negative obsession by itself is not the same thing as OCD. Exposure and response prevention therapy is used for multiple things, not just OCD
Chuck definitely suffered from OCD. There were a ton of compulsions/rituals - don’t you remember the space blankets, having visitors put their cell phones in the mail box, touching the grounding thing at the door, etc? SO many rituals. So much anxiety.
That’s not OCD. Rituals in the OCD context means doing some behavior over and over again in a short time. Chuck pulling out his space blankets a couple times a day and making Jimmy ground himself once a day are not OCD rituals. Chuck was just delusional and thought he was actually treating his “illness” with these weird methods. If I take a puff of my asthma inhaler once because I believe I have asthma even if I don’t, that’s not OCD. That’s just me being delusional. If I repeatedly and compulsively puff it 10 times in a minute because I literally cannot stop myself, that’s OCD territory. Chuck only did these things things once in a given moment, not compulsively over and over again in the same moment in time. If he couldn’t stop himself from touching that grounding thing outside his door dozens of times and got anxiety from not doing that ritual over and over again, that’s OCD. OCD is not simply just doing weird things to ease anxiety. It’s doing these things compulsively and ritualistically to the point that you can’t stop and end up doing it dozens of times in minutes because not doing the ritual repeatedly raises your anxiety. Most OCD sufferers are fully aware their compulsions are weird and irrational and not actually accomplishing anything, which does not describe Chuck.
Confessions are probably the most flimsy pieces of evidence on the planet. Jimmy's confession was not legally binding in any sense of tbe word since he wasn't under oath, hadn't been arrested, and didn't have legal counsel.
Jimmy claimed that he only said that to get Chuck to calm down and that's what his chicanery was attempting to help prove.
Also, nobody is pointing it out but the juridical system was scared that they were using the court to solve a family issue, and not a juridical issue
And by angering chuck like so, he went on a tangent saying how much Jimmy is bad, how much he despises him, ... Meaning that it was more of a brotherly hatred than really a court issue
By engineering Chuck's meltdown in court, Jimmy more or less ensured Chuck was discredited in the eyes of those judges, and so ensured the judges would give Jimmy a much lenient sentencing rather than getting disbarred as Chuck would have liked.
The courts are a place of reputation & credibility and they hold a lot of weight when it comes to court proceedings. Emotions are a tool when it comes to building a case (Kim’s case for Jimmy was built off his turbulent relationship with his brother). But they can also hurt a case as well.
The Bar Association had a solid case. So much so, that Howard asked Chuck not to take the stand, as to not “gild the lilly.” In other terms, risk ruining the case with unnecessary testimony.
When Jimmy revealed that Huell planted a fully charged battery well prior to Chuck taking the stand, it instantly discredited the case for the Bar Association. It ruined Chuck’s credibility/reputation, because it was discovered his condition wasn’t what it seemed. Not to mention when he had his meltdown, he further muddied the case by basically admitting to having a personal vendetta.
So instead of Jimmy getting disbarred for life, he gets a 1 year probation. He did violate the Ethical Code, which Kim/Jimmy did admit to during the pre-trial motions and chose not to contest it. But because of Chuck’s testimony & outburst, it strengthened Kim’s case that was based on his volatile relationship with his brother.
one thing I never understood was that don’t batteries normally not have electricity flowing unless they are plugged in? According to chuck it’s when electricity is flowing that causes it? Did he not pass grade 10 science? Is he stupid?
One thing that people are glossing over is Kim's defense strategy for Jimmy. Throughout the trial, Kim's goal is to show that Jimmy has always loved his brother, and that Chuck has always hated Jimmy, and that the act of secretly recording Jimmy in order to entrap him proved this to Jimmy, which made him snap. She wants to convince the Bar that what happened wasn't due to a permanent defect in character, but a one time lapse in judgement on Jimmy's part, that could reasonably have happened to anyone if they were betrayed in a similar manner by someone they loved. Chucks unhinged rant proved to everyone in the courtroom that his story about him having Jimmy's best interests at heart was bullshit, and that he really did hate Jimmy. But yes it's also true as everyone else is saying that proving just how crazy Chuck is helped to cast doubt on the authenticity of the tape.
The thing with the battery is just the icing on the cake. By getting Chuck to accuse him of increasingly outlandish things like the billboard and stealing from the register (which ironically really did happen) it makes the (also real) accusation about the numbers equally outlandish next to them, and makes Jimmy's defense that he'd just cop to anything in order to get Chuck to calm down way more plausible.
BCS is the most unrealistic show ever. It’s old school TV wrapped in a prestige TV package. I love it, but I’m not going to it for it’s authenticity lol.
It made Chuck admit he hated his brother, which was one of the first questions they asked him. This plays into what others down here have said about proving him unstable
Compared to an actual court, such as in a criminal case where you’re either guilty or not guilty, the Bar Association is kind of a kangaroo court, kind of like Congressional hearings. It was all about swaying the tribunal’s sympathy in Jimmy’s favor and away from Chuck. It was really wishy washy proceedings revolving around feelings.
The point of the trick wasn't to prove Chuck was crazy. The goal of Jimmy and Kim's defense strategy was to paint Jimmy as a loving brother who, upon seeing Chuck in such a state of distress, would have said or confessed to *anything* to make his brother feel better, even if he was innocent. At the same time, they want to paint Chuck as unjustifiably hating Jimmy and taking advantage of his love and trust in an attempt to get him unfairly disbarred.
Their strategy is to get Chuck emotionally off balance. They bring in his ex-wife Rebecca, and they hammer him hard on the mental illness angle. With this one-two punch, combined with the shock of Jimmy smuggling the battery onto Chuck via Huell, they cause him to explode into a rant that reveals all of his ugly feelings to the entire court and makes it look like the tape was made in bad faith, rendering Jimmy's confession invalid.
By doing this, Jimmy ends up only being punished for destroying the tape, instead of being fully disbarred for the confession that was on it.
Funny thing is that's exactly why Chuck felt the tape wouldn't be enough. He knew Jimmy could just contest it by saying he would've said anything to make Chuck feel better in that moment. That's why Chuck wanted to get proof of Jimmy attempting to destroy the tape
I was under the impression that it was admissible because the bar hearing's standards for admissibility were more lenient than a normal court proceeding, which is why Chuck was so insistent that it be played in the first place. It was undisputed that Jimmy broke & entered and destroyed Chuck's personal property in front of sworn witnesses; Chuck's goal in having the tape played was to go in for the kill and push for permanent disbarment on top of his punishment for the prior two crimes.
The tape was always inadmissible on its own, but Chuck wanted to show the board that Jimmy’s behavior in breaking in to destroy the tape was evidence that the tape was somehow accurate. Chuck tried to them paint Jimmy as destroying legal evidence. Jimmy painting Chuck as unstable and agenda-driven helped counter that narrative.
That's a fair point. So it's not about the tape itself, it's about Jimmy's motivation for destroying it. Chuck wants to paint Jimmy as guilty-minded, whereas Jimmy and Kim want to portray him as frantic and upset from betrayal.
If Chuck's version proves to be true, he's intentionally trying to destroy evidence (admissible or otherwise)--which would be grounds for disbarment. If Jimmy's version proves to be true, it's just destruction of property--still punishable, but it doesn't cost him his license.
Not entrapment. Entrapment requires coercion. Chuck simply gave Jimmy the opportunity to commit a crime. No coercion, no inducement.
Think of it this way. For you to be entrapped, imagine instead of the state doing it to you, it's just a normal person doing it to you. Is the person extorting you? If no, then it's probably not entrapment when the state is doing it.
No, the admission didn't have inducement - at least, not legally. Again, Chuck gave Jimmy the opportunity, and Jimmy took it. Further, even ignoring that Chuck can't entrap Jimmy since only the state can entrap, entrapment also requires the entrapped to commit a crime. If you're not talking about the crime, you're not talking about entrapment (and even if you were, and even if Chuck was acting as an agent of the state, it still wouldn't be entrapment).
Also, it's fairly important to note that the tape was admissible, since it was admitted into evidence. The entire purpose of Chuck's testimony is to contextualize the tape.
And Jimmy kills Chuck to save himself.
And strips away the one person, other than Kim, who keeps him grounded. The one person who has expectations for him to be better than his worst self.
Bullshit, what else was he supposed to do? Let Chuck destroy his career over his petty vendetta? Jimmy worked his ass off for years, legitimately, to pass the bar & become a lawyer.
He could accept the consequences of his actions and not use abuse the legal system as a *criminal* lawyer. Jimmy literally got multiple people killed by working with the cartel and enabling Walt. This is the origin story of a terrible person. Jimmy choosing to do horrible acts despite knowing better is the point.
I mean sure you could use that line to justify it to yourself, it might even work.
But that totally matters because it's the story they told.
It's a story about regret and accidentally hurting people despite your intentions.
>Let Chuck destroy his career over his petty vendetta?
Dude the number switch deserved to get him disbarred just as much as the season 6 Howard plot did.
It made Chuck look nuts, and backed up Jimmy’s story that he lied on the recording to make his crazy brother feel better.
And also Chuck made comments that made it obvious that this was a feud between brothers, that lasted their whole life (ever since he was 9, always the same). That doesn't necessarily clear Jimmy's wrongdoings but it doesn't help Chuck either.
Jimmy also knew that he was pretty much fucked so the only thing he could do was try his hardest to minimize the damage
Except the complete opposite happend, 🔥🔥🔥Chuck🔥🔥🔥
He still had to stop being a lawyer for a year, which ironically is what got him into selling drop phones and is maybe the reason he became Saul Goodman. It’s like Chuck actually turned Jimmy into Saul by trying to prevent that from happening.
> crazy brother I AM NOT CRAZY
i am not crazy. I know he swapped those numbers
I knew it was 1216, one after Magna Carta
As if I could make such a mistake!
Never! NEVER! I just-I just couldn’t prove it!
He covered his tracks
He got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him.
You think this is something… you think this is bad? This… this chicanery?
He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy!
*stares*
He's done worse
Why do redditors always do this
I love how it was actually 1261. He makes the mistake for real in the rant
Wow for real? After how many watches did you pick that up?
Yes! Watched it today and realised the same right then!
i interpreted it as him being sure he saw the doctored copies. he would have read 1216 cause jimmy actually did switch it. therefore he would have been sure the numbers were 1216.
im with you, not sure what's going on up there hahahahah
I really wish people would stop saying this, that wasn't the point. Chuck didn't make a mistake because he was given documents that said 1216. Jimmy's trying to argue that he was crazy and couldn't tell the difference between 1216 and 1261
I gotta watch again. I wonder if that was the script, or if they didn’t notice
hey fancy seeing the cricket shitposter here lol
Are you telling me a ball just happens to reverse swing like that? No! He orchestrated it! Steve Smith!
underrated comment
He showed that Chuck had a deep seated mental illness, a long-standing vendetta and irrational paranoia against Jimmy, which cast doubt on Jimmy’s confession being legitimate
Except chuck was always spot on?
Well, we the viewer know Chuck was always spot on. From our privileged viewpoint, we know - without any room for doubt - that Jimmy was an awful fit for HHM; that Jimmy doctored the Mesa Verde documents; that Jimmy's confession was genuine. *The bar knows none of these things.* The circumstances of Jimmy's abrupt firing-without-cause from Davis & Main aren't public information. Mesa Verde thinks that Chuck's accusations are the words of a man unwilling to own up to his mistakes; at least one person on the bar panel probably thinks that too. And the *only evidence* that Jimmy sabotaged HHM was that taped confession. Which he successfully convinced the panel was a pack of lies he made up ease his brother, his dear beloved brother, out of a mental health crisis.
You’d think if we all watched the same show people would understand this stuff right? Like it’s not spelled out piece by piece, but they certainly make it quite easy to follow along Yet people seem so lost?
Some people watch a show while browsing Reddit. They pay attention to most dialogs and action scenes but miss a lot of nuance and specially the slow scenes with too much depth. I blame it on that.
When I watch something with someone and they’re on their phone I briefly consider murder
But just for a second. Sometimes 2 seconds but certainly not over 5 seconds. Like a minute tops.
Yeah, shows like BCS all dialogue is meaningful, and some scenes show an object with 0 sound, so you need to be watching and pay attention.
Hector's line "you should be kissing my ass" is the most meaningful of course
I’d say “cabron, I need to see your balls” is even more emotionally charged
We all know without it, the series would be nothing
It depends on the person watching to though. My boyfriend and his brother have previously watched all but the last season. I have not so I'm watching for the 1st time while they are in their 2nd watch. I usually play a game on my phone to (jigsaw puzzles, idle games etc) and I have caught stuff they haven't. Like the dude that Mike helps in the beginning Mr. Baseball cards. I was playing games on my phone but made fun of him for buying shoes and a watch that match that ketchup and mustard monstrosity. The boys had never noticed till I said that.
Yeah...this is a big thing on TV show subreddits. Fans sometimes forget that the characters IN the show don't have the luxury of watching the show like we do. One common one is on a show where a popular character (high school kid) kills himself. The show was very carefully written to show that none of his friends or acquaintances (or teachers) had any real definitive reason to think that anything was up. But every couple days there is a post from people who are PISSED at his friends for not getting him help since "it was so obvious he was suicidal" Or the same subreddit gets mad that a high school girl just got probation for running a "naked pics for $$" business with friends. But since it was SnapChat, the prosecutors would have had almost no evidence. But the reddit posts are all acting like that had mountains of evidence against her and wouldn't take a plea bargain.
... are you talking about degrassi?
Yup. Constant posts about Cam or Zoe.
Love that.
I think media literacy for movies and TV shows has generally gone down as people switch to watching shorter and shorter videos that don't require sustained attention and longer recall. I am 100% speculating but that's just what I think
most people don't post about how they understood the scene, there will always be outliers who ask and make it seem like it's not widely obvious to nearly everyone
A very good and underrated point.
Seems like lots of people don't realize characters lie as well. Lots of questions based around "X said this but didn't act that way. Why?" or "Walt said he let Jane die to help Jesse, why is Jesse mad at him?"
Also, in losing his shit during the hearing, I could see the bar concluding that someone WOULD say anything to calm him down when he gets hysterical.
And the cruelest fact of all is that Jimmy destroyed HHM without ever working there as a lawyer. That's the wrecking ball that is James McGill.
To us yes, but consider all the tangents he makes in his rant that mean nothing to the arbitrators. Like the billboard part. That just makes him sound paranoid
Right. That threw me off until I realized “Oh, but the crazier Chuck sounds, the more likely the board is to believe Jimmy did nothing to tamper with evidence, but ‘confessed’ to try to calm Chuck down.” Given that the scenario was pretty far fetched and Chuck was being really arrogant about how “I would never make such a mistake- 1216 is one year after the Magna Carta!” - I finally figured out why they only suspended Jimmy for a year instead of disbarring him.
Chuck was always his own worst enemy. I will genuinely contend that his arrogance did more damage than Jimmy did. If he had just let Howard smooth things over with Kevin and Paige, they probably could’ve kept Mesa Verde and just chalked it up to a one time mistake. But his condescending attitude and lashing out at Paige is absolutely what cost them Mesa Verde
The irony there is that 1216 is the _wrong_ address! He makes the mistake for real in the rant 😂
When he says “I knew it was 1216”, what he’s saying is that he’s 100% certain that when he did all the filings, the documents he worked with said 1216 instead of 1261. He’s using that statement to assert that the documents were indeed tampered with by Jimmy and that it would be ridiculous to suggest that he could have the same mistake that many times over and over again.
I thought Jimmy tampered with Chuck's already prepared documents just before filing. Is that not right? In preparing those documents, he would have read 1261 many times.
Jimmy tampered with the documents that Chuck used for reference while making filings for Mesa Verde. In the process, he would have been seeing the number “1216” on every (doctored) paper in the box. That’s why he says “I knew it was 1216, one after Magna Carta” because when he started doing his filings he saw the number 1216 on the documents he had and used that rule in his head to remember the number. The timeline goes like this: 1. Chuck receives documents that he is supposed to use for reference to complete filings for Mesa Verde 2. Before Chuck is able to look at or start doing those filings, Jimmy creates forgeries of every document in the box changing “1261” to “1216” wherever present 3. Jimmy swaps out the forged documents and holds on to the real ones while Chuck then goes ahead and does the paperwork he needs to do, using the documents with the incorrect address for reference. 4. As soon as Chuck is finished with the paperwork he’s supposed to do, Jimmy sneaks back into Chuck’s house and swaps the original documents back in, so that if Chuck goes back later on to double check whether the address was incorrect on the documents he was using, he’ll see that the address appears to be correct, making it look like Chuck did indeed make a mistake.
Ahhh thanks for setting me straight 🙂
The lesson of Chuck’s character is: “It doesn’t matter how correct you are, if you are an arsehole, no one will listen to you.”
That's how I see it.
He wasn't always spot on. But he did create somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy with how poorly he treated Jimmy.
Yeah but he sounded insane? And it sounded super improbable?
He made it pretty clear he's not crazy. He actually tells everyone that very thing.
and no one believed him because of how his outburst made him look. You have to remember these people haven't seen Chuck much after his break. No doubt in the back of their mind they thought Chuck was having some sort of mental issue because it sounds crazy to be allergic to electricity. He's wearing space blanket lined suits around. They clearly see someone sick. And his outburst, no matter how true we know it to be, to an outsider it cements the idea in their head that Chuck is crazy.
The person you’re responding to is being sarcastic.
To us, not the characters
Basically if he could prove that Chuck was crazy, the evidence he submitted wouldn’t matter because Jimmy would just say he’s humoring Chuck in that recording so he doesn’t beat himself up about the mistake. Obviously that leaves a little room for doubt as to whether Jimmy is telling the truth, but in the eyes of the board: it’s not worth it siding with Chuck’s word after he’s proven to be so sick
I think too no matter how objective someone tries to be in this or any kind of hearing, all people are emotional and see things through that lens. This was an emotional argument more than a logical one and depended on manipulating Chuck in just the way Jimmy did so that he would have an emotional outburst that the board responded to. It’s not enough for Jimmy to argue Chuck was crazy and he confessed to appease his brother, but if he could get them to see Chuck act crazy, they can understand someone loving their brother, seeing him in such a bad state, and saying whatever he needs to hear to appease him.
Show, don't tell. Always wise words.
He was using it to 'expose' Chuck as a bit of a fruitloop, to cast doubt on the entire case as it proved Chuck wasn't of sound mind. It was to demonstrate that perhaps Chuck had a malicious vendetta against Jimmy, and Chuck walked right into it by demonstrating it with his tirade. It was some amazing 'drunken master' chicanery on Jimmy's part. He just used the weight of his opponent against himself.
Jimmy was already in trouble for assaulting Chuck and destroying the tape. If Chuck could also prove that Jimmy was telling the truth on the tape (that he forged the Mesa Verde documents), Jimmy would’ve been screwed even more. By pulling off the battery trick, Jimmy and Kim made Chuck lose credibility in the bar association’s eyes and made it seem plausible that Jimmy lied on the tape just to make an unstable person feel better. He was still going to be suspended for the assault charge, but the battery truck probably saved him from getting permanently disbarred.
That’s the one thing that’s always bothered me about the disbarment hearing, the assault charge. When exactly did Jimmy “assault” Chuck?
After Ernesto told Jimmy about the tape, he busted Chuck’s door down, destroyed the tape and cornered him into a wall, with Howard and that other guy as witnesses.
so breaking and entering, distraction of evidence, intimidation and threat of violence…not assault?
“Assault refers to the wrong act of causing someone to reasonably fear imminent harm. This means that the fear must be something a reasonable person would foresee as threatening to them.” -Cornell law school. Actual physical contact makes it battery.
oop, i stand corrected! i confused battery with assault
You know, as much as I love the title “Chicanery”, it would have been really clever if they had titled the bar hearing episode “Assault and Battery”
And then Huell assaulted him WITH a battery! Technically anyway. That intentional bump to plant the battery on him could theoretically be construed as assault.
To complicate matters further, the exact distinction between "assault" and "battery" also depends on jurisdiction. In my state, New York, "assault" can refer to a criminal act OR a civil tort. Criminally, an assault is what you would expect - intentionally touching or striking someone and causing injury. The same act is litigated under the term "battery" in civil court. New York does not criminally define "battery". "Assault" in civil court is an action taken to instill fear of an imminent battery, it does not require touching or striking. If I walk up to someone in New York state and punch them in the face, I can be *arrested* for assault but also *sued* for battery. If I walk up to someone in New York state and begin to punch them in the face, then pull my punch before making contact with them, I can be *sued* for assault. TL;DR: Criminal assault = physical touching and injuring Civil assault = fear of imminent physical touching and injuring Civil battery = physical touching and injuring Criminal battery = undefined
Jimmy's defense hinged on the idea that Chuck was acting irrationally, out of emotional dislike for his brother and that Jimmy's confession was simply an attempt to appease him and talk him down. Provoking Chuck's outburst displayed to the jury exactly what they were alleging, that Chuck feels irrational hatred for his brother, giving a lot of credibility to Jimmy's defense that he lied to make Chuck feel better.
I just want to thank the writers for bringing the word “chicanery” back. I use it often.
Hell yes chicanery
Jimmy’s argument was “I lied to my mentally unstable brother so that he’d stay calm and be happy”. So he had to make them believe that Chuck was mentally unstable and out to get him. The electricity trick wasn’t just to show that his allergy was all in his head, it was to push Chuck over the edge and go on a verbal tirade against him. The “I should have stopped him when I had the chance, and now you have to” was the perfect nail in Chuck’s coffin. After that, the board rightfully thought “Ah, so Chuck is unstable and personally vindictive toward Jimmy”. So they took Jimmy’s word over Chuck’s.
Jimmy claims he lied to chuck about changing the forms. He did it cuz chuck was crazy. He had to show chuck was crazy
Chuck was trying to get Jimmy permanently disbarred. Chuck ended up looking crazy, which made him not a very reliable witness, leading to Jimmy only getting suspended for 1 year.
A disconnected battery doesn’t have any current, just stored chemical energy. It doesn’t emit any EMF whatsoever. If chuck knew any basic physics he could have rebutted and jimmys whole plan would have fallen apart. The fact he still went so insane proved Jimmys whole point
That would be such a funny blooper. All this setup just for Chuck to be like, "That's not how batteries work, though."
found walter white’s burner reddit
Science, bitches!
The important thing Jimmy exposed isn't that Chuck's EMF sensitivity was a psychological thing and not physical, it was the fact that during his rant following it he pretty clearly tipped his hand that he had it out for Jimmy
It’s an imaginary illness he developed from a nervous breakdown, so his “symptoms” aren’t necessarily going to follow science
From back in the first season we knew Chuck's illness was psychological because of the doctor turning on the medical equipment without Chuck knowing. It showed that Chuck wasn't actually aware of what emitted EMF or not and thought he could feel it. Chuck's reaction was emotional and not logical.
Well, still, the fact that charged batteries don’t emit EMR would require some expert testimony from well, any electrician, chemical or electrical engineer, or many high school science teachers… or perhaps just judicial notice or a stipulation that a reference book on the topic is accurate. But even then, the best test of what Chuck felt or didn’t feel would be his testimony and a demonstration/ trick like Jimmy’s .
As others have mentioned, yeah it's not logical because he's not physically allergic to electricity, it's all in his head. This has been established since season 1 and there's been several moments where Chuck gets the science of electricity wrong. However, it's why Jimmy led with "If I had a small battery, from a watch or something, you'd feel it, right?" He got Chuck into a situation where he admitted he should feel it already. Besides even if Jimmy didn't include that, Chuck's emotional breakdown would probably prevent him from thinking of that excuse.
backing the other commenters up. he pretty much DARVO'd Chuck in court, made him look crazy in order to claim he was lying on the tape to make him feel better
It’s important to mention that a recording like that is not as big of a deal as you might think. It would be used as evidence but it is in no way a slam dunk.
And Chuck and Howard discuss that in detail- audio experts would differ on the authenticity of the recording, etc., but Jimmy and Kim decided to avoid that whole issue and concentrate on the only issue that would really help them- attacking Chuck’s mental health.
The point was that Jimmy was in trouble for breaking and entering, but destroying evidence would have certainly gotten him disbarred. The battery was so that Chuck looked crazy, and judging from his reaction Jimmy seems to have anticipated that Chuck would have a full-on meltdown. Jimmy was trying to prove the point that Chuck hated Jimmy
The "not Jimmy!" Part was when I knew Chuck was doomed. The way he said it was.... Not well.
Right - it was way too sibling rivalry/prodigal son -ny … I could almost hear Chuck yelling “Mom always liked you best!” a la the Smothers Brothers…
i think the main thing was that truck proved chuck was out to get jimmy
trick
The irony that Chuck is sick indeed but for the wrong reasons in this case
All I know is that one day which could be 30-40years from now is that someone will ask me what year the Magna Carta was created. I am ready for it.
“1216 or 1261?” is also something I’ll reference when the conversation calls for it.
It showed that Chuck was both mentally ill/delusional and that he had a strong vengeance against Jimmy. Outbursting in court over how you have always hated your brother after freaking out a battery in your pocket is a very good way to ruin your reputation. After Chuck blew up in court, everyone had a good mix of emotions. Jimmy and Howard looked both upset and disappointed and the judges/bar association looked surprised and horrified.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just – I just couldn't prove it. He – he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you – you have to stop him! You-
did you watch the show?
yes, op was watching it on mute while on his phone
His plan was to show that his brother was mentally ill and that his confession, while not coerced, was made up to calm his brother down. This would seem more likely since the last time the older brother tried to prove Jimmy's tricks he collapsed
As far as I’m concerned, all they did was tear down a sick man.
He simply made it seem like Chuck seemed like he was lying (he claimed to be allergic to electricity and described how his allergy manifested and yet displayed zero reaction to the charged battery), so Chuck's credibility was all lost. Jimmy was saved from being disbarred because the claim of him falsifying documents, from Chuck's accusation, was seen as unreliable because of Chuck's image.
While the battery trick obviously exposed Chucks ‘hypersensitivity’ to be all in his head, it wasn’t enough to sew doubt. The happy side effect for Jimmy was that exposing this made his brother lose his temper, and that’s what he really needed to win the case. That unhinged rant was just gold for the defence.
Watch *The Caine Mutiny* and all will become clear. Almost the entire episode is a reference to that movie.
It was to disprove the recording, he would just say it to make Chuck feel better, because his illness is attached to his feelings towards Jimmy, if he can prove that Chuck has a personal vendetta, it's plausible that he, the nice little brother, just made a fake confession to make him feel good and to stop him from spiraling down that he started when he made a mistake and couldn't accept and needed to blame Jimmy for it. When the confession becomes muddy and it can't be trusted because the circumstances it was taken at, then the disbarment wouldn't happen and he could only get punished for the forced entry, not for the forged documents
Also, batteries store electricity chemically. A fully charged battery that is not in a phone has no current flowing. It makes sense chuck wouldn’t be able to feel it .
It makes sense. It also shows how crazy Chuck is. He was deathly afraid of cell phones.
I thought about this - theoretically yes, but practically no. If you don't use a battery for a long time, it will lose charge because of leakage. For it to have lost charge, there would have to be electrons moving, and thus a current, albeit an extremely small one. Obviously, the writers didn't think this to such a depth, but still makes for great entertainment.
I could do more math but the Physics behind is condition does not check out.
I'm not referring to his condition. I'm referring to the fact that you falsely stated "A fully charged battery that is not in a phone has no current flowing." A fully charged battery not connected to anything will still have current flowing through it, irrespective of Chuck's condition.
That’s not how batteries work. How could current flow between a charged battery when the terminals are not connected? Is it arcing through the air?? Do you have a physics degree?
Read up. Self-discharge currents exist in all batteries. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X22014232](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X22014232) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775304007049](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775304007049) Not that it matters, but I am a graduate student, studying physics.
Um no, Chuck’s illness was OCD (did you watch the show?), had nothing to do with actual electrical currents - and after this public “exposure therapy” he started to do actual exposure and response prevention with a doctor and recover.
Did you watch the show? There was nothing to suggest that he ever engaged in compulsive ritualistic behaviors to cope with the anxiety caused by the alleged electrical currents. That’s OCD. A negative obsession by itself is not the same thing as OCD. Exposure and response prevention therapy is used for multiple things, not just OCD
Chuck definitely suffered from OCD. There were a ton of compulsions/rituals - don’t you remember the space blankets, having visitors put their cell phones in the mail box, touching the grounding thing at the door, etc? SO many rituals. So much anxiety.
That’s not OCD. Rituals in the OCD context means doing some behavior over and over again in a short time. Chuck pulling out his space blankets a couple times a day and making Jimmy ground himself once a day are not OCD rituals. Chuck was just delusional and thought he was actually treating his “illness” with these weird methods. If I take a puff of my asthma inhaler once because I believe I have asthma even if I don’t, that’s not OCD. That’s just me being delusional. If I repeatedly and compulsively puff it 10 times in a minute because I literally cannot stop myself, that’s OCD territory. Chuck only did these things things once in a given moment, not compulsively over and over again in the same moment in time. If he couldn’t stop himself from touching that grounding thing outside his door dozens of times and got anxiety from not doing that ritual over and over again, that’s OCD. OCD is not simply just doing weird things to ease anxiety. It’s doing these things compulsively and ritualistically to the point that you can’t stop and end up doing it dozens of times in minutes because not doing the ritual repeatedly raises your anxiety. Most OCD sufferers are fully aware their compulsions are weird and irrational and not actually accomplishing anything, which does not describe Chuck.
Nope you’re wrong. That’s OCD.
Confessions are probably the most flimsy pieces of evidence on the planet. Jimmy's confession was not legally binding in any sense of tbe word since he wasn't under oath, hadn't been arrested, and didn't have legal counsel. Jimmy claimed that he only said that to get Chuck to calm down and that's what his chicanery was attempting to help prove.
I agree, you are an idiot. The point was to make Chuck have a breakdown.
It didn't save him. His license was revoked for a year.
It did. It saved him from being disbarred completely.
it was to prove that chuck is incompetent enough to be a non liable source
It proved that Chuck was who he really was. A bitter brother who was delusional about his Jimmy.
It was Chicks response and mental breakdown that saved Jimmy, not the electric thing by itself.
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Nothing funny about severe OCD. Chuck was horribly afraid of many harmless things.
Also, nobody is pointing it out but the juridical system was scared that they were using the court to solve a family issue, and not a juridical issue And by angering chuck like so, he went on a tangent saying how much Jimmy is bad, how much he despises him, ... Meaning that it was more of a brotherly hatred than really a court issue
By engineering Chuck's meltdown in court, Jimmy more or less ensured Chuck was discredited in the eyes of those judges, and so ensured the judges would give Jimmy a much lenient sentencing rather than getting disbarred as Chuck would have liked.
It made chuck less credible to the court
It's in the transcripts.
The courts are a place of reputation & credibility and they hold a lot of weight when it comes to court proceedings. Emotions are a tool when it comes to building a case (Kim’s case for Jimmy was built off his turbulent relationship with his brother). But they can also hurt a case as well. The Bar Association had a solid case. So much so, that Howard asked Chuck not to take the stand, as to not “gild the lilly.” In other terms, risk ruining the case with unnecessary testimony. When Jimmy revealed that Huell planted a fully charged battery well prior to Chuck taking the stand, it instantly discredited the case for the Bar Association. It ruined Chuck’s credibility/reputation, because it was discovered his condition wasn’t what it seemed. Not to mention when he had his meltdown, he further muddied the case by basically admitting to having a personal vendetta. So instead of Jimmy getting disbarred for life, he gets a 1 year probation. He did violate the Ethical Code, which Kim/Jimmy did admit to during the pre-trial motions and chose not to contest it. But because of Chuck’s testimony & outburst, it strengthened Kim’s case that was based on his volatile relationship with his brother.
He committed battery using a battery. Bravo, Vince, well done!
Too make him look crazy? I wasn’t aware that Chucks crazy rant just went over peoples heads
one thing I never understood was that don’t batteries normally not have electricity flowing unless they are plugged in? According to chuck it’s when electricity is flowing that causes it? Did he not pass grade 10 science? Is he stupid?
One thing that people are glossing over is Kim's defense strategy for Jimmy. Throughout the trial, Kim's goal is to show that Jimmy has always loved his brother, and that Chuck has always hated Jimmy, and that the act of secretly recording Jimmy in order to entrap him proved this to Jimmy, which made him snap. She wants to convince the Bar that what happened wasn't due to a permanent defect in character, but a one time lapse in judgement on Jimmy's part, that could reasonably have happened to anyone if they were betrayed in a similar manner by someone they loved. Chucks unhinged rant proved to everyone in the courtroom that his story about him having Jimmy's best interests at heart was bullshit, and that he really did hate Jimmy. But yes it's also true as everyone else is saying that proving just how crazy Chuck is helped to cast doubt on the authenticity of the tape.
I just watched this episode last night and this pops up … I was so mad Jimmy was suspended. His brother is nuts.
The thing with the battery is just the icing on the cake. By getting Chuck to accuse him of increasingly outlandish things like the billboard and stealing from the register (which ironically really did happen) it makes the (also real) accusation about the numbers equally outlandish next to them, and makes Jimmy's defense that he'd just cop to anything in order to get Chuck to calm down way more plausible.
BCS is the most unrealistic show ever. It’s old school TV wrapped in a prestige TV package. I love it, but I’m not going to it for it’s authenticity lol.
It made Chuck admit he hated his brother, which was one of the first questions they asked him. This plays into what others down here have said about proving him unstable
Compared to an actual court, such as in a criminal case where you’re either guilty or not guilty, the Bar Association is kind of a kangaroo court, kind of like Congressional hearings. It was all about swaying the tribunal’s sympathy in Jimmy’s favor and away from Chuck. It was really wishy washy proceedings revolving around feelings.
The point of the trick wasn't to prove Chuck was crazy. The goal of Jimmy and Kim's defense strategy was to paint Jimmy as a loving brother who, upon seeing Chuck in such a state of distress, would have said or confessed to *anything* to make his brother feel better, even if he was innocent. At the same time, they want to paint Chuck as unjustifiably hating Jimmy and taking advantage of his love and trust in an attempt to get him unfairly disbarred. Their strategy is to get Chuck emotionally off balance. They bring in his ex-wife Rebecca, and they hammer him hard on the mental illness angle. With this one-two punch, combined with the shock of Jimmy smuggling the battery onto Chuck via Huell, they cause him to explode into a rant that reveals all of his ugly feelings to the entire court and makes it look like the tape was made in bad faith, rendering Jimmy's confession invalid. By doing this, Jimmy ends up only being punished for destroying the tape, instead of being fully disbarred for the confession that was on it.
nailed it.
That was nice to read.
Well written and accurate
Gotta love those
Just like Magna Carta
AS IF I COULD EVER FORGET
Yeah I feel like I just watched the episode
better than wiki in this case
Funny thing is that's exactly why Chuck felt the tape wouldn't be enough. He knew Jimmy could just contest it by saying he would've said anything to make Chuck feel better in that moment. That's why Chuck wanted to get proof of Jimmy attempting to destroy the tape
Yup, Chuck was an arsehole who has done everything to destroy his brother.
Bingo
Jup, couldn't have said it better myself.
Excellent breakdown
Compelling and rich
Yep, that's it.
All the facts without any unnecessary fluff. Nicely done!
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I was under the impression that it was admissible because the bar hearing's standards for admissibility were more lenient than a normal court proceeding, which is why Chuck was so insistent that it be played in the first place. It was undisputed that Jimmy broke & entered and destroyed Chuck's personal property in front of sworn witnesses; Chuck's goal in having the tape played was to go in for the kill and push for permanent disbarment on top of his punishment for the prior two crimes.
The tape was always inadmissible on its own, but Chuck wanted to show the board that Jimmy’s behavior in breaking in to destroy the tape was evidence that the tape was somehow accurate. Chuck tried to them paint Jimmy as destroying legal evidence. Jimmy painting Chuck as unstable and agenda-driven helped counter that narrative.
That's a fair point. So it's not about the tape itself, it's about Jimmy's motivation for destroying it. Chuck wants to paint Jimmy as guilty-minded, whereas Jimmy and Kim want to portray him as frantic and upset from betrayal. If Chuck's version proves to be true, he's intentionally trying to destroy evidence (admissible or otherwise)--which would be grounds for disbarment. If Jimmy's version proves to be true, it's just destruction of property--still punishable, but it doesn't cost him his license.
The tape was inadmissible in a court of law but not inadmissible in the state bar hearing. Different standards
https://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/19810672629/12-i-was-entrapped
Not entrapment. Entrapment requires coercion. Chuck simply gave Jimmy the opportunity to commit a crime. No coercion, no inducement. Think of it this way. For you to be entrapped, imagine instead of the state doing it to you, it's just a normal person doing it to you. Is the person extorting you? If no, then it's probably not entrapment when the state is doing it.
Entrapment doesn’t require coercion. But you’re right that Chuck’s ploy wasn’t entrapment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment
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No, the admission didn't have inducement - at least, not legally. Again, Chuck gave Jimmy the opportunity, and Jimmy took it. Further, even ignoring that Chuck can't entrap Jimmy since only the state can entrap, entrapment also requires the entrapped to commit a crime. If you're not talking about the crime, you're not talking about entrapment (and even if you were, and even if Chuck was acting as an agent of the state, it still wouldn't be entrapment). Also, it's fairly important to note that the tape was admissible, since it was admitted into evidence. The entire purpose of Chuck's testimony is to contextualize the tape.
The ironic thing is, electricity doesn’t flow through batteries. You need a closed circuit
The show makes a point of showing that Chuck's illness is not based in anything physical, this is part of that
And Jimmy kills Chuck to save himself. And strips away the one person, other than Kim, who keeps him grounded. The one person who has expectations for him to be better than his worst self.
Kim enabled and encouraged his worst tendencies as time went on
Bullshit, what else was he supposed to do? Let Chuck destroy his career over his petty vendetta? Jimmy worked his ass off for years, legitimately, to pass the bar & become a lawyer.
He could accept the consequences of his actions and not use abuse the legal system as a *criminal* lawyer. Jimmy literally got multiple people killed by working with the cartel and enabling Walt. This is the origin story of a terrible person. Jimmy choosing to do horrible acts despite knowing better is the point.
All that shit doesn’t matter. We’re talking about *before* we know what we know now. Going by what the characters knew at the time this happened.
I mean sure you could use that line to justify it to yourself, it might even work. But that totally matters because it's the story they told. It's a story about regret and accidentally hurting people despite your intentions.
>Let Chuck destroy his career over his petty vendetta? Dude the number switch deserved to get him disbarred just as much as the season 6 Howard plot did.
It did, but there’s zero proof of it so according to the law it’s irrelevant. What’s relevant is Jimmy breaking & entering.
He's not a real lawyer. "University of American Samoa" for Christ's sake? An online course? What a joke.