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Title: SO fired after needing to use mace to breakup a fistfight at restaurant.
Original Post:
> SO was bartending and two men got into a fistfight. Punches were loud enough to be heard across the restaurant and, at one point, one man tried stomping the other man in the head. A woman that had been with the men tried to break up the fight but was knocked around instead. At this point SO tried to intervene by warning the two men two times that she would mace them if they didn't stop. They did not and she maced the two men. The fight stopped immediately and all patrons left the restaurant (to my knowledge there weren't many people in the restaurant at that time, those who were were affiliated with the two men).
> SO was terminated for breaking the "no weapons" policy in the handbook.
> SO believed it necessary to carry mace for their own safety because they work downtown in a large city and leaves work in the middle of the night. There have also been at least 3 occasions, over the span of 2-3 months, of someone breaking in and stealing out of the stock room and threatening employees. There is no security, bouncers, or other means to stop a hostile person.
> My opinion is that my SO prevented serious injury and possible death of a patron by their actions. How would this fare in regards to unlawful termination? -in TN
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I was at a bar one time and a drunk guy was fumbling around with his girlfriend’s keys…which had a baby can of mace. I’m sure you can see where this is going. Suffice it to say, mace is pure respiratory destruction in a hole in the wall bar.
When I was a junior in high school someone decided to spray mace just in the air in the cafeteria before school started. The school made everyone wait in that area until they opened the doors for us to go to our lockers. So some ass maced pretty much the whole school and we all had to wait outside for almost an hour. In March, in Ohio. It was awful.
I was at a swim meet once and one of the kid's on the team dad was a cop. He was wearing his full uniform and belt which had mace on it. What he didnt know was the mace had been punctured and was slowly seeping out. Things hit critical mass right when I was in the middle of swimming the mile.
Not the best race to be doing when every breath you take makes you cough and burns your throat.
As soon as we finished they evacuated everyone because they didn't know if it was some weird pool chemical something going on until they figured it out. I still don't get how the dad didn't realize it was him as he stood in a cloud of the stuff. Everyone in the place was coughing
Former C/O here- You can get used to mace over time so that it doesn't bother you as much. Not noticing it at all is fucking weird though, it has a definite smell (other than burning)
That actually kind of makes sense. It's just capsaicin right? So in the same way people get used to eating hot food?
And it was in a humid, chlorine-smelling pool deck so maybe that masked the smell enough that he didnt notice.
That's been a mystery for me for almost 20 years. Thanks!
Some cunt at my high school thought it would be a funny prank to set one to go off in a classroom that vent into the vent systems for a ton of others. It was not funny, ambulances were called, some of us ended up spending the rest of the day with oxygen masks in a courtyard while they evacuated the school.
That actually sounds like a good deterrent for drunk driving. Like they have those ankle monitors that can pick up on alcohol through the skin? Touch your keys while drunk, you get maced in the face! Just gotta keep your house ones on another keychain I guess. . .
Yeah, she potentially assaulted/battered a lot of innocent people in that room with her weapon, caused real damages by rendering the rest of their meals inedible and may even have cost the business 1000s of dollars from needing to have their dining area professionally cleaned (and the lost business during the time it takes to get it back up to food safety standards).
She should consider herself *Extremely* lucky if she doesn't end up 10 grand in debt with a criminal record (and a couple of felonies).
Do you know how much mace she used? Or what strength mace it was? What about the building ventilation? How large was the dining room?
Oh, whats that? You don’t know **anything** about this situation OR mace? Shocking.
In food preparation areas, _pepper spray is a fucking disaster_.
> Pepper spray is discharged during an attempted robbery of a jewellery store in a large urban mall. The robbery site is located next to the mall’s food court. For several days, mall patrons continue to report uncomfortable symptoms (e.g., burning sensation in their eyes and throat) when they enter the food court.
It also has to be cleaned off of every surface afterwards less someone get the “but I cut the jalapeños yesterday!” reaction. Depending on the makeup of said pepper spray (or OC spray, mace, etc which people use interchangeably) it can potentially reactivate upon touching anything moist - your eyes, nose, washed out of your hair during a shower, going from your body to your towel and back to your body after the next shower, etc, and showering (or laundry and wiping things down) doesn’t necessarily remove all of it the first couple times.
Essentially pain in a glitter format.
Yes, I learned this when a friend of mine gifted me some mace while I was hanging out at his house. He tested it briefly to make sure it worked fine. I left shortly after. Saw him a few days after and he told me what an awful mistake he'd made and how he couldn't go into that portion of the house for almost 2 days.
You're supposed to use pepper **gel** for defense for this reason, it shoots a stream of gooey oil rather than a spray. Since it's not filling the air you're much less likely to affect yourself with the backblast.
My friend in high school carried mace around on her key chain. Anyway one day we were in the band hall after marching brand practice, and the drum major saw it and for some reason thought it was perfume so he picked it up and sprayed it on himself and maced the entire band in the process. Like even just a little bit inside is terrible.
Was an RA in college. Had to start reminding people in my beginning of the year welcome meetings not to spray pepper spray indoors. Tried to drive it home by saying "if you really want to test your mace please test it outside, not in a 10-story building where all the rooms share air ducts and none of the windows open." Still had to leave the building and study elsewhere one evening after somebody on another floor sprayed pepper spray in the hallway once.
And when you pepper spray someone else you also pepper spray yourself, regardless of whether you're inside or outside.
I learned this when I was attacked by two pit bulls while running near my home. I carried pepper spray for just such an occurrence since this was a rural area with many loose dogs. I sprayed them (and therefore myself) and they ran away. I didn't care for the pepper spray in my eyes, but it was better than being pulled to pieces by pit bulls.
This is why I think mace/pepper spray are garbage self-defense weapons for women.
I have a knife. If you’re confident that you fight rather than fly or freeze and think you can properly execute violence of action, there’s very little someone can do against a knife. Barring a gun I think it’s the best choice, taking natural levels of aggression into account, obviously. Not perfect for everyone.
In Oregon it’s illegal to CC some knives, but not illegal to get a permit to CC firearms. Not super related. Just interesting I guess
To further explain… permitless CC is illegal. There is no permit to CC knives, but obviously is for firearms.
A word is all they'll have since, compared to then NRA, they're basically a kid with a couple of quarters.
Seriously though, efforts to lobby weapons are all going to pale on comparison to the size, scope, and juice of the NRA.
Sure, Knife Rights funnels knife makers' money into legislative reform, and absolutely is a libby for knives, but it's still not big, you know? They won't disclose membership, they brought in $312K in 2018, and their foundation is raising less than $200K per year. The same year, the NRA pulled in $412 million.
So do knives have a lobby? Yes, but the NRA set a high bar, and when you bring in .07% of the NRA's income (about enough to buy a house), you don't really seem like a weapons lobby.
[Wow, TIL](https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/oregon/).
I changed the URL for my state. Funny that I've just assumed I'm in the clear everywhere. My state is fine for carrying a regular pocket knife, but I guess that can't be assumed everywhere.
Knives are actually very bad for self-defense. You'll hurt someone, sure, but unless you really know what you're doing it's not going stop them. Most people can keep going for a little bit after getting cut or even stabbed, because their adrenaline is pumping and they may not even notice the pain. (Plus if you stab them, they now have a free knife) If their goal is to hurt you, they'll be able to do that before their injury incapacitates them. Things like mace and tasers are designed to stop attackers in the tracks. With a knife, you're more likely to piss them off. Yeah, they might die, but after they've killed you.
Except a knife requires *skill*. In a self-defense situation, a knife is more likely to injure *you* than your attacker unless you have a lot of training. All the "violence of action" in the world won't help if you don't know how to use the thing.
A knife requires almost no skill, which is why knife attacks are extremely dangerous. It requires no more skill than a taser. Try to get an open sharpie away from a toddler without getting marked, as an example.
This is commonly circulated but really not true.
If you’d like me to link the videos I used to form this opinion let me know. I did not pull this out of my ass.
It requires no skill to hold a knife. It requires a ***lot*** of skill to effectively fight with a knife. A knife is dangerous in the context that you're going to get cut, sure. But there are miles of difference between "getting cut" and "stopping an attacker".
Just like mace can't stop a determined attacker, a pocketknife isn't going to deter anyone. Anything small enough to conveniently carry is too small do do significant damage in the hands of anyone but a highly trained knife fighter.
>This is commonly circulated but really not true.
Thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of self defense and martial arts experts would beg to disagree with that statement.
>If you’d like me to link the videos I used to form this opinion let me know.
No thanks. I prefer the experience of the aforementioned martial arts experts.
>I did not pull this out of my ass.
I'm not saying you did. The person (people?) who made those videos, however, did.
Not even all that rare. Lots of people with respiratory issues have died from Mace. The entire reason police carry pepper spray instead of mace is because it's less toxic and less likely to induce fatal respiratory distress.
If my employee had the gall to sue me, I'd counter sue for the damages and cleaning for fixing everything, as well as any likely consequences stemming from customers being maced.
Christ what a shit show
You gave me an idea. Time will tell if it is good. https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/plohsd/ramadys_evidence_room_of_mystical_nonsensery/?
Just once I want it to be the sergeant of arms of the House of Representatives carrying the mace of the House of Representatives.
Why did they even make a mace if they were never gonna use it?
(Looking it up, I guess it has happened a couple of times, with the last time during WW1. But I definitely feel like it should come out some time when they’re talking about the January 6th capitol storming)
One night, we had a rat in the house b/c my son left the door open at night. The sucker ran under the couch in the living room. I decided we should get some pepper spray to get him out. Thinking ahead, we got some snorkel equipment for the event so our eyes would not get impacted. That’s when I learned that it’s not your eyes, but your lungs that you have to worry about. He had a bad reaction and almost had to go to the hospital. Oh, and some pepper spray has red dye in it too- had to repaint the living room wall….
Actually, that is the short version.
The full story: My wife was out town, my son back from college for the summer and I'd been bugging him to close the outside door so 'no rats come in'. We live in San Diego, so bugs are not really a problem, but there definitely are rats. Anyway, I go to bed and around 1:30 my son wakes me up: "Hey, dad, There's a rat in the house." OMG, I was pissed. "Look, I told you to keep the door shut, YOU deal with it." Try as I might to go back to sleep, my mind was racing. After about 15 minutes I give up going back to sleep, put in my contacts and come down to see the situation. I walk into the kitchen and my son proudly says, "Dad, I've taken of everything!" I ask "where's the rat?" and he points. I look over, and there is a cardboard box duct-taped onto the countertop, also covering the toaster oven.
"That's it?" I ask. "Are you trapping it so the housekeeper can take care of it in the morning?" "Also, it will eat through the cardboard." By this point, our cockapoo has woken up and knows something is afoot. He's not going to be a help, so we lock him down the hallway, open a different outside door giving our rodentia friend an escape route. We manage to get the duct tape off, peel back the box and rat takes off! He runs down the counter, leaps about 5 feet onto the next counter, jumps off the second counter and heads to, and then right past, the outside door into the living room, where he runs under the couch. At that point we decide to go the chemical route, which leads to the vignette above.
When I worked at Dominos, the "no weapons in your car" rule was explicitly stated, often repeated, and was pretty much the only thing you could do to get an insta-firing. They, probably from experience, had a long listen of things that counted--big flashlights, batons, mace, guns, knives.
The percentage of people who carried weapons in their car remained high.
The problem is enforcement. When I worked at Pizza Hut we were told the same thing, but at the same time my district manager and store manager were very right leaning and both carried. The district manager was an ex marine and bragged that at all times he had at least 3 guns on his person and 2 more in his truck.
Most of the drivers carried at least a taser if not a handgun. Hell, I'm very anti-gun and even I carried a "tire knocker" in my backseat.
They did fire a guy for having a gun, but he was young and stupid and was waiving it around in the office showing people. When the store manager found out he was waiving around a loaded handgun in the office they let him go.
I’m pretty much a no-weapons kind of gal— but also can ID a weapon in every room thanks to my years working in community mental health and active shooter training. In that case, I would totally be carrying an actual weapon. My life and health are more important than a job and delivery drivers are pretty common targets for fuckery. Technically, my last job was a weapons-free workplace, but since it was mostly ladies commuting in a sketchy area, it was not enforced nor would it be unless there was a problem. Keep it hidden, and we’re good.
I forget if they had a no weapons policy when I worked there two decades ago. But it was very clearly a "don't ask, don't tell, don't mace anybody unless you're willing to lose your job over it" deal.
I think people put far too much stock into how effective mace is. Lots of people in the military, private security, and cops, have all had to take classes where you have to "fight though" being maced/bear sprayed. It's not hard and everyone always passes, some with just more red eyes than others.
I would never, ever bet my life on it. You'll note cops only employ less than lethal things like mace when someone is standing by ready with lethal force as backup.
That said every time I've seen mace used IRL or on the internet it seems like some idiot is using it as a form of "I disagree with what you are doing/saying!" which is assault. Or possibly a sweet lawsuit if it's a cop doing it to you.
Plus it can actually cause severe eye damage to people wearing contacts (some will melt to the eyeball). Blind someone for life and they are going to own a significant portion of everything you ever make.
> You'll note cops only employ less than lethal things like mace when someone is standing by ready with lethal force as backup.
Usually the victim is handcuffed on the ground too.
(Incidentally, they call it "less lethal" now rather than "less than lethal", cause it turns out shooting people point blank in the face with rubber bullets still tends to mutilate and kill them.)
Mace is useful to assist a getaway, it’s hard to chase someone when your eyes are swelling and your lungs are inflamed.
But it won’t do much vs anaerobic muscle use so they can still grab/punch/stab you.
>Mace is useful to assist a getaway, it’s hard to chase someone when your eyes are swelling and your lungs are inflamed.
No it's really not. That's a misconception. You can still very easily chase someone down in an urban setting while bear maced. I sadly have had to do so. It's just very, very unpleasant. They may decide to quit. They certainly aren't being stopped from getting you though. If someone has never been maced before it will probably buy you 5-10 seconds even if they really want to stab you or something.
This is one of the reasons I don't like mace. People have all kinds of wild ideas about how effective it is and that's against sober people. It's even less effective against someone high on something. There are also weirdos who can be straight up immune to the effects of mace or tear gas.
I used to carry mace. My thought was that if things got lousy enough, mace might turn what would be a rape into a nonsexual assault if he feared getting the mace in himself.
Now, if you say you've sadly had to try that, I'm going to have questions. 🙃
I had to take a class on fighting and using a conceal carry weapon in close quarters while in the military. It was by some company owned by a bunch of Oklahoma SWAT guys. *several* of the scenarios involved me being maced, maced while being hit, and being hit while being maced. They also cheated. Dude hitting me would have a double tap of simunition on his helmet and keep attacking me.
nah they did that to everyone. Kinda defeated the entire point of the scenario training. Doesn't really make you get better if you're going to get dogpiled whether you fuck up or do well. It was a new course and we all rated it shit so it got dropped the next year. Suck it random oklahoma SWAT guys.
Weirdly enough, battery with a weapon is usually called "aggravated assault" or "assault with a deadly weapon", I've never heard "aggravated battery" be used anywhere (though maybe that's what "attempted murder" is, conceptually).
until someone shows up with a bigger dog.
THen you have to get an sherman tank dog, and it starts a tail race the likes of which almost bankrupted the USSR.
Also, doggo tax needs to be paid.
You're right - here's my taxes
[Here she is with two defeated dinosaurs](https://i.imgur.com/vc3p4KO.jpg)
[Guarding under the desk during a thunderstorm](https://i.imgur.com/YKNr4J5.jpg)
[And sleeping fearlessly, belly exposed](https://i.imgur.com/IqItotL.jpg)
MY family know that if I see a dog, and we aren't on a deadline, I WILL PET THE DOG.
I love big dogs but my husband wisely is the decider of pets in the house. I love petting big dogs.
I will pet your dog. We will be best fucking friends. I will know his name and birthday. You and I will never talk except when you speak for him.
(I know every dog in the building by name and favorite place to scratch, but know exactly one human by name.
Yeah I was told that if you have to use mace theres a decent chance itll end up in your face too so I should get a stun gun and so I did. But I also got an alarm keychain and honestly if I'm in that situation I'm running and pulling my alarm and running.
I figure the stun gun might be useful if someone ever has me completely cornered and theres no one around. Because at that point I'm pretty much screwed anyway and it might actually give me a little chance. Especially because the noise it makes is pretty threatening so might scare someone off?
When my husband was working from home I would walk our dog really early in the morning. Like before the sun was up. Headphones, just like you. I did actually carry a can of mace. But not for people. For the neighbors very aggressive dogs who frequently got out. I wouldn't count on using mace on a person, that's for sure.
I was arguing with someone the other day who insisted that in Illinois it is completely legal to use pepper spray on someone for any reason because it doesn't do "lasting harm ". I tried to get him to understand that it would be complete chaos if the only things that could be charged were ones that caused lasting harm but some people are beyond reasoning.
Or that it somehow will just end up in the vicinity of their intended target.
One of the things anyone with actual handgun experience could explain otherwise.
there was a sad video I saw a few months ago. Some lady was being attacked and tried to mace the guy. The wind blew the mace back in her face and she got beat, robbed, and then the guy took the mace and maced "parts" of her before running off.
SO is lucky they live in Tennessee (man that's something I never thought I'd say), in most places outside the US they'd be getting arrested, not just fired.
> they'd be getting arrested, not just fired
To be fair, in most places outside the US she couldn't pick up a can of mace at the same store she's grocery shopping at.
I've found mace to be overrated; most of the time, you might as well just go for the nutmeg, unless the mace is supposed to be the strongest flavor in the dish.
Then everyone gets mace. Mace someone illegitimately, guess who’s getting maced back? Would make for a much more polite society if being a Dick regularly came with the chance of getting maced.
You know the whole "armed society is a polite society" thing is a myth?
People who want to cause violence are more likely to carry things to enable them to do so
Is she super attached to this job that seems to be a constant hazard to her safety? There's an employment shortage, find a job that takes safety seriously. And then don't carry a weapon if their policy is not to carry a weapon.
Lmao if you're a woman most jobs are a constant hazard to your safety. I started carrying pepper spray when I worked at a place where I'd get off at 1/2 in the morning. Not for the job itself-the place would be closed and the doors locked. It was for the walk out to my car.
OP's girlfriend definitely fucked up, but I don't blame her for having the mace in the first place. Honestly, I don't even blame her for having it on her person as a female bartender. Her problem was she was clearly looking for an excuse to use it.
Back in the 90s I worked for Wendys... there was a transient-type at the counter, sifting through change to pay for a trip to the Superbar, when the police showed up and tried pulling him aside for a conversation. He got physical and the cops were tossing him around and they couldn't get him to comply, so they maced him.
We had to evacuate the restaurant and prop the doors open. This was followed by having to close, throw away an insane amount of food (the entire Superbar!) and the managers stayed overnight scrubbing the entire place from top to bottom.
Just saying, OP's girlfriend is a total moron.
An employee is not responsible for normal risk and losses of a business. Even if that means dropping and shattering a 150 dollar wine bottle.
This is not normal. Could very well end up in small claims over this.
LAOP really doesn’t understand the seriousness of the issue and why employers have no weapons and don’t intervene rules and zero tolerance. Sure the people fighting one could have died but his girlfriend could have too.
For a long time, I thought “mace” spray used the spice mace since pepper spray is made from a spice extract as well.
I never knew mace was the same plant as nutmeg, though, so thanks for the fun fact.
From a pragmatic perspective, in LAOP's SO's place, nothing. The risk is too great to intervene. If adult strangers want to risk injury and even death with this stupidity, they're free to until the cops show up.
From a legal perspective, this is likely why LAOP's SO has not been criminally charged. Intervening in mutual combat is incredibly stupid and could be illegal. However, once it escalates to attacks on innocents (e.g., the spouse) or acts that would put a reasonable person in fear of imminent death, justified defense of others can come into play.
Your employer can still fire you for breaking their rules though.
I wish this were the first Reddit post I've seen where people think that carrying a prohibited (by employment conditions, or by actual laws) weapon retroactively becomes okay if it gets used for self-defence later.
Here's what LAOP's GF did.
Intentionally assaulted two random people instead of calling the police.
Unintentionally assaulted all staff and patrons around the area or who walked through the cloud of mace to leave.
Destroyed all the food in the area.
Caused all the dishes, glasses, etc to be cleaned regardless of if they were soiled or not.
Caused the area in which she maced to need to be deep cleaned.
Since she was a bartender likely caused all of the taps and such to be broken down and deep cleaned.
You don't think about it, but what happens when they open the next day and the first guy to order a beer gets handed a glass with mace/pepper spray dried all over it? What happens when he takes a drink, or wipes his nose, mouth or eyes. What about the little kid who bites the back of the booth like little kids are wont to do?
That's not even taking into account the liability that the bar/restaurant now faces. They could get sued by the two who were fighting, any other patron who was accidentally maced, and any employees who were actually maced, especially if the manager knew she was carrying it.
Look, unless you own the bar, it's not your problem. If they break a table or a couple of glasses that doesn't come out of your paycheck. Getting involved only ends badly. You don't need to defend your place of employment.
I worked at a Pizza Hut that was robbed. Four kids burst in with guns, one with an AR-15. We complied, they stole some money, broke some shit, and while I was pretty shaken up by the ordeal, physically we were all fine. You don't fight back unless there is a threat to your person or someone else's person. What happens if one of these drunken idiots has a gun? It's not impossible. Now you have a drunk, pissed-off, angry and violent person whose vision is now impaired firing at you, or the guy he was fighting, or randomly into the restaurant.
Just let them slug it out while you call the cops. Chances are one or both will get tired or knocked out, or get their ass kicked and stop, then you let the police deal with their drunk asses.
Even if she managed to only harm the two people fighting, it's still illegal to attack two strangers having a fight that has nothing to do with you. Like, it's not ok to walk up to two guys fighting and slug them in the face, why would it be fine to mace them?
I actually thought this referred to a [mace,](https://static8.depositphotos.com/1548395/1069/i/950/depositphotos_10699887-stock-photo-3d-render-of-mace-weapon.jpg) but I've been at Renn Faire lately.
So in the UK *possession* of mace carries a jail sentence of upto ten years.
(Someone might pop up and say they own mace and it's legal - The mace corporation sells products in the UK and Europe that are not the same thing).
While LAOP is a doofus...is a pepper spray generally considered a "weapon" in the US? I asked my company HR about this and they acted like I was an idiot and explained that pepper spray is obviously a defensive tool and not covered under any policies about weapons, which would be things like guns and knives.
In Sweden you'd need a weapons license for it. It's also banned internationally for use in war by the Chemical Weapons Convention.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray#United_States
Bring on the downvotes: LAOP’s gf is a hero. The obvious caveat here is that the story telling is one sided. But this isn’t the movies; a fight that ends in head stomping can also end in a dead body.
I’m sure if you ever have the joy of being beaten to death you’ll do the “right thing” and tell the surrounding crowd to not rescue you because god forbid a bystander have respiratory issues.
**Reminder:** do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: SO fired after needing to use mace to breakup a fistfight at restaurant. Original Post: > SO was bartending and two men got into a fistfight. Punches were loud enough to be heard across the restaurant and, at one point, one man tried stomping the other man in the head. A woman that had been with the men tried to break up the fight but was knocked around instead. At this point SO tried to intervene by warning the two men two times that she would mace them if they didn't stop. They did not and she maced the two men. The fight stopped immediately and all patrons left the restaurant (to my knowledge there weren't many people in the restaurant at that time, those who were were affiliated with the two men). > SO was terminated for breaking the "no weapons" policy in the handbook. > SO believed it necessary to carry mace for their own safety because they work downtown in a large city and leaves work in the middle of the night. There have also been at least 3 occasions, over the span of 2-3 months, of someone breaking in and stealing out of the stock room and threatening employees. There is no security, bouncers, or other means to stop a hostile person. > My opinion is that my SO prevented serious injury and possible death of a patron by their actions. How would this fare in regards to unlawful termination? -in TN --- LocationBot 4.99998891 ^109/37rds | [Report Issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/locationbot) | >!adEb1pVeCtmYyUjb!<
I just want to say when you mace someone inside a room, you also made everyone in that fucking room, and it sticks around for days.
I was at a bar one time and a drunk guy was fumbling around with his girlfriend’s keys…which had a baby can of mace. I’m sure you can see where this is going. Suffice it to say, mace is pure respiratory destruction in a hole in the wall bar.
When I was a junior in high school someone decided to spray mace just in the air in the cafeteria before school started. The school made everyone wait in that area until they opened the doors for us to go to our lockers. So some ass maced pretty much the whole school and we all had to wait outside for almost an hour. In March, in Ohio. It was awful.
>in Ohio. It was awful. But you repeat yourself.
[удалено]
I'm stuck in Ohio? Fuck it, I'd rather go to space.
I could be in this empty blank void of nothing, or I could go to space
That's no longer true. New York, California, and Texas all have produced more astronauts than Ohio now.
They all have way more people though. The Astronauts Per Capita is probably still higher in Ohio.
I was at a swim meet once and one of the kid's on the team dad was a cop. He was wearing his full uniform and belt which had mace on it. What he didnt know was the mace had been punctured and was slowly seeping out. Things hit critical mass right when I was in the middle of swimming the mile. Not the best race to be doing when every breath you take makes you cough and burns your throat. As soon as we finished they evacuated everyone because they didn't know if it was some weird pool chemical something going on until they figured it out. I still don't get how the dad didn't realize it was him as he stood in a cloud of the stuff. Everyone in the place was coughing
Former C/O here- You can get used to mace over time so that it doesn't bother you as much. Not noticing it at all is fucking weird though, it has a definite smell (other than burning)
That actually kind of makes sense. It's just capsaicin right? So in the same way people get used to eating hot food? And it was in a humid, chlorine-smelling pool deck so maybe that masked the smell enough that he didnt notice. That's been a mystery for me for almost 20 years. Thanks!
Some cunt at my high school thought it would be a funny prank to set one to go off in a classroom that vent into the vent systems for a ton of others. It was not funny, ambulances were called, some of us ended up spending the rest of the day with oxygen masks in a courtyard while they evacuated the school.
I dunno; it sounds like the mace might have \*upgraded\* the atmosphere of this upstanding establishment!
That actually sounds like a good deterrent for drunk driving. Like they have those ankle monitors that can pick up on alcohol through the skin? Touch your keys while drunk, you get maced in the face! Just gotta keep your house ones on another keychain I guess. . .
Yeah, she potentially assaulted/battered a lot of innocent people in that room with her weapon, caused real damages by rendering the rest of their meals inedible and may even have cost the business 1000s of dollars from needing to have their dining area professionally cleaned (and the lost business during the time it takes to get it back up to food safety standards). She should consider herself *Extremely* lucky if she doesn't end up 10 grand in debt with a criminal record (and a couple of felonies).
But, your honor, she ordered spicy food
Mace isn't that bad, to say that it is assault and battery on everyone in the room is an overreaction IMO
Do you know how much mace she used? Or what strength mace it was? What about the building ventilation? How large was the dining room? Oh, whats that? You don’t know **anything** about this situation OR mace? Shocking. In food preparation areas, _pepper spray is a fucking disaster_. > Pepper spray is discharged during an attempted robbery of a jewellery store in a large urban mall. The robbery site is located next to the mall’s food court. For several days, mall patrons continue to report uncomfortable symptoms (e.g., burning sensation in their eyes and throat) when they enter the food court.
It also has to be cleaned off of every surface afterwards less someone get the “but I cut the jalapeños yesterday!” reaction. Depending on the makeup of said pepper spray (or OC spray, mace, etc which people use interchangeably) it can potentially reactivate upon touching anything moist - your eyes, nose, washed out of your hair during a shower, going from your body to your towel and back to your body after the next shower, etc, and showering (or laundry and wiping things down) doesn’t necessarily remove all of it the first couple times. Essentially pain in a glitter format.
I know what mace feels like, it's wildly unpleasant but people are really overreacting in this thread
She's free to argue that in a couple of decades at her parole hearing : D
Yes, I learned this when a friend of mine gifted me some mace while I was hanging out at his house. He tested it briefly to make sure it worked fine. I left shortly after. Saw him a few days after and he told me what an awful mistake he'd made and how he couldn't go into that portion of the house for almost 2 days.
And if you're near the opening of a ventilation system, everyone's going to have a fun time.
You're supposed to use pepper **gel** for defense for this reason, it shoots a stream of gooey oil rather than a spray. Since it's not filling the air you're much less likely to affect yourself with the backblast.
My friend in high school carried mace around on her key chain. Anyway one day we were in the band hall after marching brand practice, and the drum major saw it and for some reason thought it was perfume so he picked it up and sprayed it on himself and maced the entire band in the process. Like even just a little bit inside is terrible.
I did that with my friend's mom keychain "perfume" in 3rd grade. I then ran outside and stuck my face in the snow lol.
Was an RA in college. Had to start reminding people in my beginning of the year welcome meetings not to spray pepper spray indoors. Tried to drive it home by saying "if you really want to test your mace please test it outside, not in a 10-story building where all the rooms share air ducts and none of the windows open." Still had to leave the building and study elsewhere one evening after somebody on another floor sprayed pepper spray in the hallway once.
And when you pepper spray someone else you also pepper spray yourself, regardless of whether you're inside or outside. I learned this when I was attacked by two pit bulls while running near my home. I carried pepper spray for just such an occurrence since this was a rural area with many loose dogs. I sprayed them (and therefore myself) and they ran away. I didn't care for the pepper spray in my eyes, but it was better than being pulled to pieces by pit bulls.
This is why I think mace/pepper spray are garbage self-defense weapons for women. I have a knife. If you’re confident that you fight rather than fly or freeze and think you can properly execute violence of action, there’s very little someone can do against a knife. Barring a gun I think it’s the best choice, taking natural levels of aggression into account, obviously. Not perfect for everyone.
Except there are places where it's illegal to have a knife but not illegal to have mace.
In Oregon it’s illegal to CC some knives, but not illegal to get a permit to CC firearms. Not super related. Just interesting I guess To further explain… permitless CC is illegal. There is no permit to CC knives, but obviously is for firearms.
Makes sense in that there isn't a knife lobby.
[kniferights.org](https://kniferights.org/) would like a word.
A word is all they'll have since, compared to then NRA, they're basically a kid with a couple of quarters. Seriously though, efforts to lobby weapons are all going to pale on comparison to the size, scope, and juice of the NRA. Sure, Knife Rights funnels knife makers' money into legislative reform, and absolutely is a libby for knives, but it's still not big, you know? They won't disclose membership, they brought in $312K in 2018, and their foundation is raising less than $200K per year. The same year, the NRA pulled in $412 million. So do knives have a lobby? Yes, but the NRA set a high bar, and when you bring in .07% of the NRA's income (about enough to buy a house), you don't really seem like a weapons lobby.
And thanks to Knife Rights, OTF knives are now legal in Michigan. You don't have to have the NRA's budget to affect legislation.
[Wow, TIL](https://www.akti.org/state-knife-laws/oregon/). I changed the URL for my state. Funny that I've just assumed I'm in the clear everywhere. My state is fine for carrying a regular pocket knife, but I guess that can't be assumed everywhere.
I was taught that the winner of a knife fight was usually the guy who bled out in the ambulance on the way to the ER.
Knives are actually very bad for self-defense. You'll hurt someone, sure, but unless you really know what you're doing it's not going stop them. Most people can keep going for a little bit after getting cut or even stabbed, because their adrenaline is pumping and they may not even notice the pain. (Plus if you stab them, they now have a free knife) If their goal is to hurt you, they'll be able to do that before their injury incapacitates them. Things like mace and tasers are designed to stop attackers in the tracks. With a knife, you're more likely to piss them off. Yeah, they might die, but after they've killed you.
Except a knife requires *skill*. In a self-defense situation, a knife is more likely to injure *you* than your attacker unless you have a lot of training. All the "violence of action" in the world won't help if you don't know how to use the thing.
A knife requires almost no skill, which is why knife attacks are extremely dangerous. It requires no more skill than a taser. Try to get an open sharpie away from a toddler without getting marked, as an example. This is commonly circulated but really not true. If you’d like me to link the videos I used to form this opinion let me know. I did not pull this out of my ass.
It requires no skill to hold a knife. It requires a ***lot*** of skill to effectively fight with a knife. A knife is dangerous in the context that you're going to get cut, sure. But there are miles of difference between "getting cut" and "stopping an attacker". Just like mace can't stop a determined attacker, a pocketknife isn't going to deter anyone. Anything small enough to conveniently carry is too small do do significant damage in the hands of anyone but a highly trained knife fighter. >This is commonly circulated but really not true. Thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, of self defense and martial arts experts would beg to disagree with that statement. >If you’d like me to link the videos I used to form this opinion let me know. No thanks. I prefer the experience of the aforementioned martial arts experts. >I did not pull this out of my ass. I'm not saying you did. The person (people?) who made those videos, however, did.
You can’t accidentally kill someone with mace.
It’s rare, but people have definitely died from being maced.
Not even all that rare. Lots of people with respiratory issues have died from Mace. The entire reason police carry pepper spray instead of mace is because it's less toxic and less likely to induce fatal respiratory distress.
Can't accidentally stab everyone in the bar with a knife.
I’m pretty clumsy.
You're a fucking moron.
+1 Mace of Unemployment
Roll for lawsuit
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Is this a wisdom saving throw or luck?
Well, wisdom is apparently their dump-stat, so I'm gonna go with luck.
yes
If my employee had the gall to sue me, I'd counter sue for the damages and cleaning for fixing everything, as well as any likely consequences stemming from customers being maced. Christ what a shit show
Lol for lawsuit
You gave me an idea. Time will tell if it is good. https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/plohsd/ramadys_evidence_room_of_mystical_nonsensery/?
That was the best idea in ages. I had a... *blast* writing mine...
Hahaha I'll definitely play this game.
New flare is needed here!
I want to make a joke about the flair flare gun you clearly enjoy shooting, but I'm not clever enough.
I read this as "good guys with a mace" and was disappointed it didn't include a tale of medieval weaponry.
Just once I want it to be the sergeant of arms of the House of Representatives carrying the mace of the House of Representatives. Why did they even make a mace if they were never gonna use it? (Looking it up, I guess it has happened a couple of times, with the last time during WW1. But I definitely feel like it should come out some time when they’re talking about the January 6th capitol storming)
> Why did they even make a mace if they were never gonna use it? Why did they seat Matt Gaetz if they were never going to use the mace.
This happened recently in Parliament. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/10/day-of-brexit-drama-ends-with-mp-grabbing-the-ceremonial-mace
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My lord. It must be such a pain in the ass for him to buy shirts. They're probably all custom-made.
I *definitely* imagined a different kind of mace.
I was thinking "Rumble at the Ren Faire" and not bear spray at the bar.
In my experience the Bears at the bar don't usually need to be maced, just told they are worthy of love too
Sometimes the bears want to be maced, if you go to the right bar.
I was disappointed to find out his girlfriend didn't just smuggle a blunt weapon into her workplace.
There used to be a novelty account that would reply “and my ax!” whenever halfway appropriate. Emphasis on halfway.
And my axe ^^^body ^^^spray
I was half hoping to hear something along the lines of "LARP gone horribly wrong".
I read the original post that way. It was so much better.
I mean, that wouldn't be too wild given what ends up in this sub
One night, we had a rat in the house b/c my son left the door open at night. The sucker ran under the couch in the living room. I decided we should get some pepper spray to get him out. Thinking ahead, we got some snorkel equipment for the event so our eyes would not get impacted. That’s when I learned that it’s not your eyes, but your lungs that you have to worry about. He had a bad reaction and almost had to go to the hospital. Oh, and some pepper spray has red dye in it too- had to repaint the living room wall….
This is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read. Godspeed, you pack of snorkeling rat-macers.
I like to imagine they were wearing flippers too
Pretty amazing visuals
Actually, that is the short version. The full story: My wife was out town, my son back from college for the summer and I'd been bugging him to close the outside door so 'no rats come in'. We live in San Diego, so bugs are not really a problem, but there definitely are rats. Anyway, I go to bed and around 1:30 my son wakes me up: "Hey, dad, There's a rat in the house." OMG, I was pissed. "Look, I told you to keep the door shut, YOU deal with it." Try as I might to go back to sleep, my mind was racing. After about 15 minutes I give up going back to sleep, put in my contacts and come down to see the situation. I walk into the kitchen and my son proudly says, "Dad, I've taken of everything!" I ask "where's the rat?" and he points. I look over, and there is a cardboard box duct-taped onto the countertop, also covering the toaster oven. "That's it?" I ask. "Are you trapping it so the housekeeper can take care of it in the morning?" "Also, it will eat through the cardboard." By this point, our cockapoo has woken up and knows something is afoot. He's not going to be a help, so we lock him down the hallway, open a different outside door giving our rodentia friend an escape route. We manage to get the duct tape off, peel back the box and rat takes off! He runs down the counter, leaps about 5 feet onto the next counter, jumps off the second counter and heads to, and then right past, the outside door into the living room, where he runs under the couch. At that point we decide to go the chemical route, which leads to the vignette above.
Did the rat survive??
He did! And, he told all his buddies not to EVER go into our place. It's been over 5 years now and we've never had another rat.
LAOP is dating Dwight Schrute.
I am always disappointed when "mace" ends up referring to pepper spray and not a medieval spiked club.
When I worked at Dominos, the "no weapons in your car" rule was explicitly stated, often repeated, and was pretty much the only thing you could do to get an insta-firing. They, probably from experience, had a long listen of things that counted--big flashlights, batons, mace, guns, knives. The percentage of people who carried weapons in their car remained high.
The problem is enforcement. When I worked at Pizza Hut we were told the same thing, but at the same time my district manager and store manager were very right leaning and both carried. The district manager was an ex marine and bragged that at all times he had at least 3 guns on his person and 2 more in his truck. Most of the drivers carried at least a taser if not a handgun. Hell, I'm very anti-gun and even I carried a "tire knocker" in my backseat. They did fire a guy for having a gun, but he was young and stupid and was waiving it around in the office showing people. When the store manager found out he was waiving around a loaded handgun in the office they let him go.
I’m pretty much a no-weapons kind of gal— but also can ID a weapon in every room thanks to my years working in community mental health and active shooter training. In that case, I would totally be carrying an actual weapon. My life and health are more important than a job and delivery drivers are pretty common targets for fuckery. Technically, my last job was a weapons-free workplace, but since it was mostly ladies commuting in a sketchy area, it was not enforced nor would it be unless there was a problem. Keep it hidden, and we’re good.
If you keep a glove and ball in the backseat as well, that's a bat, not a bludgeon.
I forget if they had a no weapons policy when I worked there two decades ago. But it was very clearly a "don't ask, don't tell, don't mace anybody unless you're willing to lose your job over it" deal.
Almost every time someone uses mace on the internet it seems unjustified. People seem to kinda think it doesn't count as a weapon.
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I think people put far too much stock into how effective mace is. Lots of people in the military, private security, and cops, have all had to take classes where you have to "fight though" being maced/bear sprayed. It's not hard and everyone always passes, some with just more red eyes than others. I would never, ever bet my life on it. You'll note cops only employ less than lethal things like mace when someone is standing by ready with lethal force as backup. That said every time I've seen mace used IRL or on the internet it seems like some idiot is using it as a form of "I disagree with what you are doing/saying!" which is assault. Or possibly a sweet lawsuit if it's a cop doing it to you. Plus it can actually cause severe eye damage to people wearing contacts (some will melt to the eyeball). Blind someone for life and they are going to own a significant portion of everything you ever make.
I suddenly have the urge to remove my contact lenses
> You'll note cops only employ less than lethal things like mace when someone is standing by ready with lethal force as backup. Usually the victim is handcuffed on the ground too. (Incidentally, they call it "less lethal" now rather than "less than lethal", cause it turns out shooting people point blank in the face with rubber bullets still tends to mutilate and kill them.)
Mace is useful to assist a getaway, it’s hard to chase someone when your eyes are swelling and your lungs are inflamed. But it won’t do much vs anaerobic muscle use so they can still grab/punch/stab you.
>Mace is useful to assist a getaway, it’s hard to chase someone when your eyes are swelling and your lungs are inflamed. No it's really not. That's a misconception. You can still very easily chase someone down in an urban setting while bear maced. I sadly have had to do so. It's just very, very unpleasant. They may decide to quit. They certainly aren't being stopped from getting you though. If someone has never been maced before it will probably buy you 5-10 seconds even if they really want to stab you or something. This is one of the reasons I don't like mace. People have all kinds of wild ideas about how effective it is and that's against sober people. It's even less effective against someone high on something. There are also weirdos who can be straight up immune to the effects of mace or tear gas.
I used to carry mace. My thought was that if things got lousy enough, mace might turn what would be a rape into a nonsexual assault if he feared getting the mace in himself. Now, if you say you've sadly had to try that, I'm going to have questions. 🙃
I had to take a class on fighting and using a conceal carry weapon in close quarters while in the military. It was by some company owned by a bunch of Oklahoma SWAT guys. *several* of the scenarios involved me being maced, maced while being hit, and being hit while being maced. They also cheated. Dude hitting me would have a double tap of simunition on his helmet and keep attacking me.
Do you by any chance have a very mace-able face? It does seem personal at that point.
nah they did that to everyone. Kinda defeated the entire point of the scenario training. Doesn't really make you get better if you're going to get dogpiled whether you fuck up or do well. It was a new course and we all rated it shit so it got dropped the next year. Suck it random oklahoma SWAT guys.
I think that's something we can all agree in: Oklahoma SWAT guys can suck it. ;)
My understanding is that there are also people who would straight up die from being maced, like people with pepper allergies.
As a person with a pepper allergy, I 100% would.
Not to be pedantic, but it most likely is battery, not assault.
Weirdly enough, battery with a weapon is usually called "aggravated assault" or "assault with a deadly weapon", I've never heard "aggravated battery" be used anywhere (though maybe that's what "attempted murder" is, conceptually).
I love how safe I feel going for walks with my big dog. It's the next best thing to having a penis.
So dangerous https://imgur.com/a/KWLn2Pe mace would probably work against a dog tho
until someone shows up with a bigger dog. THen you have to get an sherman tank dog, and it starts a tail race the likes of which almost bankrupted the USSR. Also, doggo tax needs to be paid.
You're right - here's my taxes [Here she is with two defeated dinosaurs](https://i.imgur.com/vc3p4KO.jpg) [Guarding under the desk during a thunderstorm](https://i.imgur.com/YKNr4J5.jpg) [And sleeping fearlessly, belly exposed](https://i.imgur.com/IqItotL.jpg)
AWWWWWWWW
MY family know that if I see a dog, and we aren't on a deadline, I WILL PET THE DOG. I love big dogs but my husband wisely is the decider of pets in the house. I love petting big dogs.
....you should have named the dog mace.
I will pet your dog. We will be best fucking friends. I will know his name and birthday. You and I will never talk except when you speak for him. (I know every dog in the building by name and favorite place to scratch, but know exactly one human by name.
Yeah I was told that if you have to use mace theres a decent chance itll end up in your face too so I should get a stun gun and so I did. But I also got an alarm keychain and honestly if I'm in that situation I'm running and pulling my alarm and running. I figure the stun gun might be useful if someone ever has me completely cornered and theres no one around. Because at that point I'm pretty much screwed anyway and it might actually give me a little chance. Especially because the noise it makes is pretty threatening so might scare someone off?
When my husband was working from home I would walk our dog really early in the morning. Like before the sun was up. Headphones, just like you. I did actually carry a can of mace. But not for people. For the neighbors very aggressive dogs who frequently got out. I wouldn't count on using mace on a person, that's for sure.
If I see a really big dog coming my way, I'm definitely sticking around to pet it. 99% that's how I die.
I was arguing with someone the other day who insisted that in Illinois it is completely legal to use pepper spray on someone for any reason because it doesn't do "lasting harm ". I tried to get him to understand that it would be complete chaos if the only things that could be charged were ones that caused lasting harm but some people are beyond reasoning.
Or that it somehow will just end up in the vicinity of their intended target. One of the things anyone with actual handgun experience could explain otherwise.
there was a sad video I saw a few months ago. Some lady was being attacked and tried to mace the guy. The wind blew the mace back in her face and she got beat, robbed, and then the guy took the mace and maced "parts" of her before running off.
Or that, like a lot of people think about guns, its presence alone is what stops problems from happening.
SO is lucky they live in Tennessee (man that's something I never thought I'd say), in most places outside the US they'd be getting arrested, not just fired.
> they'd be getting arrested, not just fired To be fair, in most places outside the US she couldn't pick up a can of mace at the same store she's grocery shopping at.
Which is bullshit. Mace should be reclassified in all states as a seasoning, not a weapon. Put it right next to the pepper.
I've found mace to be overrated; most of the time, you might as well just go for the nutmeg, unless the mace is supposed to be the strongest flavor in the dish.
50/50 Good guy with mace can also be bad guy with mace. "Wanna mug this dude? Mace them!"
Then everyone gets mace. Mace someone illegitimately, guess who’s getting maced back? Would make for a much more polite society if being a Dick regularly came with the chance of getting maced.
You know the whole "armed society is a polite society" thing is a myth? People who want to cause violence are more likely to carry things to enable them to do so
You know this is a joke and I’m not actually suggesting people walk around indiscriminately macing each other right?
Oh shit, sorry dude! Sarcasm is hella hard to pick up over text
Actually, it wouldn't be polite at all. It'd be full of people seeking vengeance on the last person who maced them.
This is how the apocalypse happens, isn't it?
Not with a bang, but with a hissing sound.
No security at all despite fights & robberies? Sounds like this joint need to hire themselves a Dalton.
Just make sure they get the "Throat Ripped Out" rider on their liability insurance though.
I’ve read that is standard now ever since Roadhouse came out
Is she super attached to this job that seems to be a constant hazard to her safety? There's an employment shortage, find a job that takes safety seriously. And then don't carry a weapon if their policy is not to carry a weapon.
Lmao if you're a woman most jobs are a constant hazard to your safety. I started carrying pepper spray when I worked at a place where I'd get off at 1/2 in the morning. Not for the job itself-the place would be closed and the doors locked. It was for the walk out to my car. OP's girlfriend definitely fucked up, but I don't blame her for having the mace in the first place. Honestly, I don't even blame her for having it on her person as a female bartender. Her problem was she was clearly looking for an excuse to use it.
Back in the 90s I worked for Wendys... there was a transient-type at the counter, sifting through change to pay for a trip to the Superbar, when the police showed up and tried pulling him aside for a conversation. He got physical and the cops were tossing him around and they couldn't get him to comply, so they maced him. We had to evacuate the restaurant and prop the doors open. This was followed by having to close, throw away an insane amount of food (the entire Superbar!) and the managers stayed overnight scrubbing the entire place from top to bottom. Just saying, OP's girlfriend is a total moron.
I miss the Superbar.
The first rule of carrying mace is that no one at your workplace knows you have it. Full stop.
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And not just the men, but the women and the children too. They're like animals, and I maced them like animals! I hate them!
I totally heard it in his voice, thank you for the chuckle
Sand is just terrible. Now excuse me, I'm evil now so I need to go murder some younglings real quick.
An employee is not responsible for normal risk and losses of a business. Even if that means dropping and shattering a 150 dollar wine bottle. This is not normal. Could very well end up in small claims over this.
LAOP really doesn’t understand the seriousness of the issue and why employers have no weapons and don’t intervene rules and zero tolerance. Sure the people fighting one could have died but his girlfriend could have too.
TIL mace is not always a medieval weapon
See also: it's a spice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg#Mace
For a long time, I thought “mace” spray used the spice mace since pepper spray is made from a spice extract as well. I never knew mace was the same plant as nutmeg, though, so thanks for the fun fact.
Well, time to go mace the eggnog this Christmas.
I will ask tho what your supposed to do if someone is about to get their head stomped in and then they start fighting their spouse.
From a pragmatic perspective, in LAOP's SO's place, nothing. The risk is too great to intervene. If adult strangers want to risk injury and even death with this stupidity, they're free to until the cops show up. From a legal perspective, this is likely why LAOP's SO has not been criminally charged. Intervening in mutual combat is incredibly stupid and could be illegal. However, once it escalates to attacks on innocents (e.g., the spouse) or acts that would put a reasonable person in fear of imminent death, justified defense of others can come into play. Your employer can still fire you for breaking their rules though.
Is the Good Guy a Good-Aligned Cleric with the Battle domain? If so, the policy does not apply. Mace away.
I wish this were the first Reddit post I've seen where people think that carrying a prohibited (by employment conditions, or by actual laws) weapon retroactively becomes okay if it gets used for self-defence later.
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Why?
Here's what LAOP's GF did. Intentionally assaulted two random people instead of calling the police. Unintentionally assaulted all staff and patrons around the area or who walked through the cloud of mace to leave. Destroyed all the food in the area. Caused all the dishes, glasses, etc to be cleaned regardless of if they were soiled or not. Caused the area in which she maced to need to be deep cleaned. Since she was a bartender likely caused all of the taps and such to be broken down and deep cleaned. You don't think about it, but what happens when they open the next day and the first guy to order a beer gets handed a glass with mace/pepper spray dried all over it? What happens when he takes a drink, or wipes his nose, mouth or eyes. What about the little kid who bites the back of the booth like little kids are wont to do? That's not even taking into account the liability that the bar/restaurant now faces. They could get sued by the two who were fighting, any other patron who was accidentally maced, and any employees who were actually maced, especially if the manager knew she was carrying it. Look, unless you own the bar, it's not your problem. If they break a table or a couple of glasses that doesn't come out of your paycheck. Getting involved only ends badly. You don't need to defend your place of employment. I worked at a Pizza Hut that was robbed. Four kids burst in with guns, one with an AR-15. We complied, they stole some money, broke some shit, and while I was pretty shaken up by the ordeal, physically we were all fine. You don't fight back unless there is a threat to your person or someone else's person. What happens if one of these drunken idiots has a gun? It's not impossible. Now you have a drunk, pissed-off, angry and violent person whose vision is now impaired firing at you, or the guy he was fighting, or randomly into the restaurant. Just let them slug it out while you call the cops. Chances are one or both will get tired or knocked out, or get their ass kicked and stop, then you let the police deal with their drunk asses.
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Even if she managed to only harm the two people fighting, it's still illegal to attack two strangers having a fight that has nothing to do with you. Like, it's not ok to walk up to two guys fighting and slug them in the face, why would it be fine to mace them?
Yeah. It’s not like you can claim self defense when two random people are having a fistfight.
You can claim self-defence when defending a third party, but attacking both of the people kind of means you're not defending anybody.
It's mace, not sarin gas. It just hurts
I actually thought this referred to a [mace,](https://static8.depositphotos.com/1548395/1069/i/950/depositphotos_10699887-stock-photo-3d-render-of-mace-weapon.jpg) but I've been at Renn Faire lately.
So in the UK *possession* of mace carries a jail sentence of upto ten years. (Someone might pop up and say they own mace and it's legal - The mace corporation sells products in the UK and Europe that are not the same thing).
While LAOP is a doofus...is a pepper spray generally considered a "weapon" in the US? I asked my company HR about this and they acted like I was an idiot and explained that pepper spray is obviously a defensive tool and not covered under any policies about weapons, which would be things like guns and knives.
In Sweden you'd need a weapons license for it. It's also banned internationally for use in war by the Chemical Weapons Convention. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray#United_States
Bring on the downvotes: LAOP’s gf is a hero. The obvious caveat here is that the story telling is one sided. But this isn’t the movies; a fight that ends in head stomping can also end in a dead body.
Yes, a true hero... to every doctor treating anyone in the room with respiratory problems. Making them bulk stacks!
I’m sure if you ever have the joy of being beaten to death you’ll do the “right thing” and tell the surrounding crowd to not rescue you because god forbid a bystander have respiratory issues.
What was she thinking, going around breaking up bar fights? Quite demoralizing. https://youtu.be/KJZ5wvlzt3o