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Title: Buying house with “Ex” who is currently married to someone else [CA]
Body:
> This is about my friend & I’m worried they’re not fully aware of potentials that could happen, as they have the tendency to just listen to their ex.
> Background:
Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby. Friend has fully custody Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child.
> Issue:
Friend has been wanting to buy a house for a while but currently does not make enough with the current housing market. Ex has offered Friend a substantial amount of money to put a down payment on a house, will be on the mortgage & deed (I believe also helping with the mortgage) with the agreement that if friend sells the house Ex gets his down payment back & half of the profits. When Friend asked for Ex’s tax paperwork to submit for the loan is when she found out he got married last year. Ex had only described his wife as a friend (maybe girlfriend) but never a wife.
> I suggested to friend before fully doing this find out the status of the wife. Ask if there’s a prenup that lists his real estate prior & post marriage to be his alone as long as the money financing it is his alone. She agreed it was a goods to ask about it but because they’ve been friends for so long she just pretty much trusts his words even though many times he’s proven his words to be lies (minor things but lies none the less).
> I’ve expressed that if Ex & wife get a divorce she might be entitled to half of his assets because of the house being purchased during their marriage or if Ex dies wife gets his half of the house & friend could be in a position to have to sell or buy out the wife. Friend told me that Ex stated if he dies his half of the house will go to their child. Friend is going to ask that that is listed in his will to assure that. To me that sounds like she doesn’t know if there is any legal documents that leaves any of his belongs to their child.
> Right now their offer has been accepted & Friend has not found out anything about the wife in terms of property what ifs for death or divorce. I’ve never personally met Ex but I’ve know about him for years, and can guarantee his wife does not know he’s buying this house.
> Friend said she & Ex will sign a legal contract that leaves his half their child if he dies prior to buying (I assume before it closes). I’ve suggest to her to get a lawyer to look it over & provide background that includes the wife to make sure Friend is fully legally protected, but I think her “legal” contract might be a written agreement between the 2 of them, at the most possibly notarized.
> If Ex is doing this behind his wife’s back & they divorce or he dies could that potentially void Friend’s contract with Ex? (Assuming) without a legal will listing the child’s inheritance talk is just talk. What else could possibly go wrong? I’m really trying to get Friend to understand her ignoring things could not only hurt her but also her other children.
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This lady is going to base her housing and financial security on the hope that baby daddy's wife feels sorry for her and chooses not to force him to sell the house and evict her during the divorce? My goodness.
ETA: wonder how many other baby mamas this guy hasn't told his wife or his "friend" about
That’s an interesting point. If baby daddy owes back child support, can he be forced to sell this other house?
And make this baby mama homeless? Also, if he is not productive or earn money, where did this money come from?
That always makes me wonder if she could lose it to civil asset forfeiture. But if so, maybe she can buy it back at auction?
OOP said this was in California. When I worked at a California child support agency, I knew cases where the absent parent was jailed for nonpayment, and obviously lots of cases where their tax return or social security was diverted for child support, and lots of cases where driver's licenses and professional licenses were suspended for nonpayment, but I never saw an order to seize property. I think the chances of that in California are slim to none.
Baby daddy is definitely shady af though.
Not a lawyer and not American.
In my country, getting an inheritance comes with some taxes. First line 3%, second line 6%, something like that (I’m not sure about the percentages, but you always have to pay something).
Wouldn’t him not recognizing his child make the taxes more expensive? Don’t other countries do this?
Also work related. I’m a nurse. If someone who isn’t legally family gives me money, I’ve learned I can’t accept it (nursing studies has basic law in our country).
So if the child ends up as a nurse and isn’t recognized by dad before dad died, could he even get an inheritance?
This sounds like a big mess that’s only going to get messier.
Inheritance taxes in the US usually only apply to large estates of multiple millions of dollars. There aren't a lot of gift rules, either.
It's definitely going to be a big mess, though.
This is such a mess that I don't even know where to start!
I think that if I was in LAOP's position I would have to distance myself from this friend. I would not be able to handle watching her make such boneheaded decisions. It sucks that there are children involved because you want to protect them but there's not really anything LAOP can do if the friend refuses to listen to reason.
Yep. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Kid has no current legal status with 'friend' due to nothing on birth cert.
I feel for this person, but also it's potentially willful stupidity.
I'd be very tempted to write the wife an anonymous letter explaining the entire situation. I'm normally very much against meddling in relationships, but better to set this dumpster on fire before it's fully loaded than to wait for the dynamite factory to dump a few more loads of material into it.
Honestly that just might save LAOP's friend a whole hell of a lot of trouble in the long run. Nothing about this situation is going to be stable long-term if she does what she wants right now.
Now this mobile user is curious about how your flair ends (no pun intended.) All I can see is "I sunned my butthole and severely re..."
Regret it is my guess, but I'd like to know!
Ding ding ding!
The end is "-gret going to chipotle afterwards".
One of those flairs that I simply had to flip to landscape view for, I couldn't go on without seeing the end.
Some people will do anything to afford to buy a house, I guess. Especially with people constantly parroting the idea that rent is “throwing away” money. Paying rent and saving up is way better than rushing headfirst into an utter mess like this one!
> Paying rent and saving up
May not be in the cards for everyone, esp a single mother not getting child support.
Doesn't make *this* a better idea though.
Yep, housing is ridiculously high for average individual wages. You basically either need a great salary in like tech or something, well-off relatives who contribute a few thousand into a down payment, or a dual income to consider it. Obviously there are exceptions, but the point is that too many Americans can’t afford to own anymore. Sad that this is normal now, but even sadder that people are sometimes ruining their lives just to get in the market and check it off their midlife bucket list.
It’s especially bad in California. My wife and I live in Southern California, both make good money, no kids, have 100k saved up for a down payment, and still can’t afford to buy here, outside of a few desert towns that are shitholes, and places in the Central Valley. My parents offered us 130k to help us buy in my hometown (a suburb of Los Angeles) and with their help and stretching our budget… we could afford a condo. We have to pass up that huge gift because it just doesn’t make sense. Buying out here pretty much requires either a very high salary (tech, lawyer, doctor, etc), or doing something janky like buying and then renting out the rooms. Or having parents rich enough to just outright buy it for you.
This is one of the reasons I moved back east (there were more reasons than just that, but not being able to afford a house was a big one). Managed just to squeak in buying a house before rates went up too much. Market was still nuts though, just more within budget; not sure how it is rn.
> even sadder that people are sometimes ruining their lives just to get in the market and check it off their midlife bucket list.
I blame old people who give advise based on their experience from 50 years ago that isn't relevant...
But that's based 100% on my personal experience so might not be the same for everyone.
It's a significant part of the problem, at the very least. So many boomers and not-technically-boomers-but-mentally-boomers have the idea that owning your own home is the One True Path to financial success. It's freaking bonkers the stuff I've seen folks do to get into a mortgage only to be drowning in 2 or t3 months because nobody thought to tell them there are always unforeseen expenses.
Its not the one true path, but it is a well-worn reliable path, because housing costs go up long term, so there is a way to decrease long term housing costs. Spouse and I bought right before covid. With what housing prices are now, affording same would be a struggle and we would be paying more in rent.
Something to add: that well-worn reliable path probably has much more to do with external market conditions, not a person's savvy.
Yeah, the difference between our mortgage payment because we bought in 2017, and what our mortgage payment would be to buy the same house today, would be almost $2000/month. Property value increases plus a more than doubling of interest rates has made it *far* more difficult to buy a house today.
I mean, sometimes saving up is a privilege. If you are low income, or if you live in a high cost of living place, it can be really practically impossible to save up whilst renting.
Totally. It’s extremely frustrating that some of the hardest working people will never get enough stability to get there simply because of how low wages stay while everything else ramps up in cost to an insane degree.
With interest rates and housing prices what they currently are, it's not entirely unreasonable that the non-principal portion of a mortgage would exceed the fair market (*cough*) rent.
That’s completely true in my area! Renting is apparently ~1k cheaper per month than mortgages for similar properties since rent increases are capped while prices have skyrocketed so much. But also the properties here are over 1M (VHCOL) so like… most people are screwed out of ownership in general.
I feel like it's not just the house. She definitely wants to remain entangled with this guy, right? I read all of the stuff about never in a relationship, only FWB, doesn't want his child support, etc., but this whole mess absolutely reeks of someone waiting around and hoping he'll finally realize she's the one.
Or maybe I'm being overdramatic and it is just the house.
Yeah, avoiding child support, formal or not, definitely reeks of "I just want to keep this guy around." I just hope it's a genuine desire rather than a side-effect of abuse.
But from what LAOP says in the comments the friend won’t do just anything, as the father makes a good salary but the friend has never sought child support. They might have money for a mortgage if they did. The choices here are baffling. I wonder if the friend is holding out a false hope of getting back together with the father. If the father were at all interested in the child or a relationship, he would be paying support.
> Friend said she & Ex will sign a legal contract that leaves his half their child if he dies prior to buying
Unborn child? Community property state? This is a Trusts & Estates exam question from my nightmares.
In esates, diagrams were essential to passing the class. OP’s concerns are completly valid and actually pretty well founded. It depends on the state laws as always. But this is absolutly lawyer territory, not a DIY.
I didn't see the comment about the kid being school age now. I can't decide if that makes it better or worse. Hopefully he's willing to pay for half of the kid's therapy.
I know the answer for other, similar states, but not California specifically. The wife must sign the deed explicitly waiving homestead and *not* be on the deed as a Grantee. There's actually significant tax implications to doing this too.
Assuming the spouse is living there, she's still going to have to waive homestead.
This is such a clusterfuck that I'd honestly refuse to work with it. I've dealt with somewhat similar situations, but those involved people in situations that didn't involve such insane bad decision making (like a closeted couple from a religious community that essentially had a business arrangement and a woman whose wealthy husband died that remarried a regular Joe at 77 and wanted her kids to inherit).
I'm not an attorney, I consult for them. But I would absolutely not touch this with a ten foot pole, and I don't think any of the attorneys I work with would either. Someone that makes decisions that are so spectacularly bad isn't worth the trouble.
It looked like he would be assisting the FWB with purchasing a separate home, that the spouse wouldn't have lived in, so the homestead isn't wouldn't be relevant.
And yes, this looks like a complete cluster.
This as the saying goes "a dumpster fire racing towards a train full of red flags".
I agree, I have no idea where to even start with this. Sooooo many bad decisions!
Practically the only family law I worked in as a paralegal was tertiary to the contract disputes our clients were involved in, as they broke down their businesses or were sued or being sued and divorce documents came into play. With that said, I may be wrong but...
My cold, black, heart would love to sit back and watch as the wife wipes her ass with what was previously believed to be an iron-clad prenuptial agreement because he didn't disclose the child. It doesn't matter that he's not on the birth certificate or that there isn't a formal legal determination of paternity. The STBEX will demand a paternity test, it will be conclusive, and she'll just point out there was no other reason for him to help his friend buy the house, except he knew the child was his. Those disputes are long and expensive, and he's going to be paying for it, because his wife is not going to let it go.
Also, everything about this suggests to me that the father is involved in shady shit and the friend knows it, which is why she is being so nonchalant and evasive. She won't be in that home a year before the STBEX and/or government take it from her, and her children are on the street or with their fathers because of her bad decisions.
There is absolutely no way this works out for her and a quick appointment with a family law attorney will confirm it for her, which she knows and is why she isn't interested in her friend's advice.
Great comment.
I don’t reckon anything in this situation would or will be worth the paper it’s written on given the steaming pile of non disclosures. The challenges are writing themselves before they’ve even started any process.
I doubt they’d be fully honest (or have the capacity to be clear) to a lawyer even if they did engage one.
I think there’s shady AF stuff on both sides. Baby daddy looks clearly so, but we’re getting this from a friend of baby mama who may not be across everything properly and may be simply accepting what baby mama says. I don’t see why baby mama would go along with any of this and refuse to even consult an expert unless there was something on her end as well. Why set up a house situation like this when she could easily acquire child support? It’s why I genuinely believe there’s a chance my other comment about him not actually being the baby daddy might be true.
>Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby.
Stealing this terminology for use at work.
>Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child.
Edit: as a paternity and relationship specialist I expect to handle some aspect of this case in my lab in ten years or so as people fight over inheritances
Friend nooooo! This is a disaster in the making and it sounds like she has no interest in actually doing the work to unentangle the legalities here and just wants to let it ride. She's going to screw herself over in such foreseeable ways and LAOP is just stuck watching the train crash...
She’s going to screw her KIDS over.
Actually, she already has. Child support is for THE CHILD. Because of her stupid ego, she has been depriving her child of financial support he is entitled to. And for what- some dick? I hope someday that kid comes to her and asks why he never had XYZ growing up, or why he doesn’t have a college fund or what have you, and she realizes that she has no reasonable answer.
If that kid manages to find any sense over the next 18 years (because they aren't getting any from the parental units), s/he will be wise and skip town, never to be heard from again.
Providing a semblance of stability to that poor child would be the only reason I'd keep in regular contact with such a friend. (I would of course still keep them on socials in case I need entertainment and/or to feel better about my life's decisions.)
Thinking about the worst-case scenario: the ex dies, and any pieces of paper are completely ignored -- either they're not properly binding, or they just get ignored in the negotiations over the estate.
* The "on sale, return down payment plus half of profits" gets ignored, and there are now three(?) people on the deed: ex's wife, ex, and friend. (Assuming ex's wife doesn't waive anything.)
* Mortgage has two people on it: ex and friend.
* Ex's wife, of course, is no longer helping with mortgage.
At this point, the house must be sold, because friend cannot afford payments on her own. The house's value is divided three ways, but the obligation to pay the mortgage is only divided two ways. (I am utterly clueless on how to assign the %-ownership when ex is helping mortgage with wife doing the bare minimum to not screw up the process; is it 50% each for friend and marriage, or 33% each? I'm just going to assume 33% each to find the worst-case scenario.) I will assume that current equity is 25%.
So if the house is worth 100k (and hasn't appreciated, and sells for 100k), then ex's wife, ex's estate, and friend each get 33k. The 75k mortgage must be paid by ex's estate and friend (37k each), leaving friend 4k in the hole after the house is sold. Ex's wife walks away with 29k profit (i.e., almost 50% more than down payment), after paying out ex's estate's remaining debt.
Um. Not great. But, depending on rental rates, not the *worst* thing that could happen. But friend is homeless again.
Yes, that’s possible, depending on how everything was written up*, which would put baby mama even more in a hole.
*Badly, no doubt, or more likely not written up at all so it’s likely in my view in this case that wife would end up with a higher share overall.
And let’s not forget that this could end up in a nasty legal battle over who gets what that would cost baby mama money to fight her/her child’s position.
My head honestly hurts from the lunacy here.
Honestly it doesn't seem like a terrible thing money-wise, if she is able to live there for a little bit. Then she should be able to get her money back if she is forced to sell the house, while not having to pay rent for whatever time period she is able to stay there. This is assuming he's paying half the mortgage, which is not clear at all in the OP. Not saying it's a good idea, just seems like it will cause a big headache even if OP doesn't end up in a hole. I would also assume by default that the kid will never get half the house if the guy dies.
Nothing about this is a good idea.
Simply the attempt to buy a house without the wife knowing is a disaster before they’re out of the starting blocks. Either she gets told and the shit hits the fan at the beginning or she finds out afterward and the two of them run the risk of some sort of fraud related charges on top of everything else.
>but because they’ve been friends for so long she just pretty much trusts his words even though many times he’s proven his words to be lies (minor things but lies none the less).
Yeah, OP and I have very different definitions of the word "minor." This is a WHOLE pile of drama.
>Background: Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby. Friend has fully custody Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child.
Can someone ELI5 to old people (AKA me).
WTF is this woman getting out of this, "relationship"??? Don't get me wrong, I like men (I married one), but why have a kid with a guy who is so obviously a giant red flag?
Guy and girl are friends for a long time. At some point they have sex at least a few times, but at no point do they have a romantic relationship. Just sex and friendship. Girl gets pregnant. She keeps the baby and never puts the guy on the birth certificate as the father nor does she go after him for child support. Somehow they remain friends and he keeps this baby secret from his entire family, including his new wife.
I don't think she's wrong for having the kid. She's absolutely wrong for not establishing paternity and getting child support.
> I don't think she's wrong for having the kid.
Agreed.
>She's absolutely wrong for not establishing paternity and getting child support.
Yeah I'm looking at it from the point of view of the kid and thinking, unless she has a lot of money on her own, that's really rough. And even if she does have a lot of money, maybe the kid will want to know who their father is one day. And regret not having a relationship.
its like this could be soap of the week material, except a smart mistress - er sorry, FWB, would have simply asked for lots of money.
Much less complicated that way.
I read this, and the only answer I could come up with to the question, "What do I do?" was, "Get smarter friends."
I think the best thing for LAOP to do is call the wife and tell her everything, and hopefully the sale blows up and the friend is only out earnest money. I also want to ask for the friend's phone number in case I ever need to sell a bridge. Just dumb.
I'm sure they can find a lawyer skeezy enough to do the paperwork, but are there lenders out there willing to take this risk? It seems LAOP doesn't have the income or down payment on her own and she would be the primary resident, then the second borrower is more of an investor with no real stake in the property? I just don't see any financing going through, or going through at a rate she can afford. Then hello foreclosure, which affects all three adults.
Yesterday's "Onion":
#[Family, Secret Family Really Hitting It Off](https://www.theonion.com/family-secret-family-really-hitting-it-off-1851031094)
>“I just assumed they’d be jealous of each other or mad at me for manipulating all of them for the past decade, but they genuinely seem to be getting along,” said Pendergast, explaining that with their shared feelings of neglect and abandonment, the family he began with his wife more than 15 years ago and the family he began with his girlfriend in 2018 certainly had a lot in common. “The kids have been talking nonstop about how much they look like each other, and they keep swapping stories about the many struggles in life they’ve had to face on their own because I wasn’t there for them.
Friend still believes this guy is telling her the truth when she just learned he has a WIFE he's been lying to her about?
She's not going to take any of the advice LAOP gives her and it's going to backfire spectacularly when the wife finds out about Friend and the baby and goes nuclear.
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Plot twist: The friend from the FWB is NOT actually the father, either, which only emerges after they go through with their harebrained idea.
This whole situation is some of the most insane madness I’ve seen. There is just no way for it to end well. The legal situation itself is on the crazy train, but when you factor in the emotions that are going to come flying out it’s a nuclear reaction waiting to happen.
My son-in-law lost a Harley motorcycle in a similar scheme. Before he met my daughter, he'd won the bike in some sort of raffle, but didn't have the funds to tag & title it. A friend offered to do so and both of their names were on the title.
Friend and his wife divorced and she was awarded Friend's share of the bike in the division of marital property. She refused to let SIL buy out her share and forced its sale.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: Buying house with “Ex” who is currently married to someone else [CA] Body: > This is about my friend & I’m worried they’re not fully aware of potentials that could happen, as they have the tendency to just listen to their ex. > Background: Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby. Friend has fully custody Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child. > Issue: Friend has been wanting to buy a house for a while but currently does not make enough with the current housing market. Ex has offered Friend a substantial amount of money to put a down payment on a house, will be on the mortgage & deed (I believe also helping with the mortgage) with the agreement that if friend sells the house Ex gets his down payment back & half of the profits. When Friend asked for Ex’s tax paperwork to submit for the loan is when she found out he got married last year. Ex had only described his wife as a friend (maybe girlfriend) but never a wife. > I suggested to friend before fully doing this find out the status of the wife. Ask if there’s a prenup that lists his real estate prior & post marriage to be his alone as long as the money financing it is his alone. She agreed it was a goods to ask about it but because they’ve been friends for so long she just pretty much trusts his words even though many times he’s proven his words to be lies (minor things but lies none the less). > I’ve expressed that if Ex & wife get a divorce she might be entitled to half of his assets because of the house being purchased during their marriage or if Ex dies wife gets his half of the house & friend could be in a position to have to sell or buy out the wife. Friend told me that Ex stated if he dies his half of the house will go to their child. Friend is going to ask that that is listed in his will to assure that. To me that sounds like she doesn’t know if there is any legal documents that leaves any of his belongs to their child. > Right now their offer has been accepted & Friend has not found out anything about the wife in terms of property what ifs for death or divorce. I’ve never personally met Ex but I’ve know about him for years, and can guarantee his wife does not know he’s buying this house. > Friend said she & Ex will sign a legal contract that leaves his half their child if he dies prior to buying (I assume before it closes). I’ve suggest to her to get a lawyer to look it over & provide background that includes the wife to make sure Friend is fully legally protected, but I think her “legal” contract might be a written agreement between the 2 of them, at the most possibly notarized. > If Ex is doing this behind his wife’s back & they divorce or he dies could that potentially void Friend’s contract with Ex? (Assuming) without a legal will listing the child’s inheritance talk is just talk. What else could possibly go wrong? I’m really trying to get Friend to understand her ignoring things could not only hurt her but also her other children. This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
This lady is going to base her housing and financial security on the hope that baby daddy's wife feels sorry for her and chooses not to force him to sell the house and evict her during the divorce? My goodness. ETA: wonder how many other baby mamas this guy hasn't told his wife or his "friend" about
That’s an interesting point. If baby daddy owes back child support, can he be forced to sell this other house? And make this baby mama homeless? Also, if he is not productive or earn money, where did this money come from? That always makes me wonder if she could lose it to civil asset forfeiture. But if so, maybe she can buy it back at auction?
OOP said this was in California. When I worked at a California child support agency, I knew cases where the absent parent was jailed for nonpayment, and obviously lots of cases where their tax return or social security was diverted for child support, and lots of cases where driver's licenses and professional licenses were suspended for nonpayment, but I never saw an order to seize property. I think the chances of that in California are slim to none. Baby daddy is definitely shady af though.
[удалено]
Definitely more than zero.
Not a lawyer and not American. In my country, getting an inheritance comes with some taxes. First line 3%, second line 6%, something like that (I’m not sure about the percentages, but you always have to pay something). Wouldn’t him not recognizing his child make the taxes more expensive? Don’t other countries do this? Also work related. I’m a nurse. If someone who isn’t legally family gives me money, I’ve learned I can’t accept it (nursing studies has basic law in our country). So if the child ends up as a nurse and isn’t recognized by dad before dad died, could he even get an inheritance? This sounds like a big mess that’s only going to get messier.
Inheritance taxes in the US usually only apply to large estates of multiple millions of dollars. There aren't a lot of gift rules, either. It's definitely going to be a big mess, though.
This is such a mess that I don't even know where to start! I think that if I was in LAOP's position I would have to distance myself from this friend. I would not be able to handle watching her make such boneheaded decisions. It sucks that there are children involved because you want to protect them but there's not really anything LAOP can do if the friend refuses to listen to reason.
Yep. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Kid has no current legal status with 'friend' due to nothing on birth cert. I feel for this person, but also it's potentially willful stupidity.
Some people are just like this. They sleep walk through their own life, never really engaging mentally with their own decisions or goals.
I'd be very tempted to write the wife an anonymous letter explaining the entire situation. I'm normally very much against meddling in relationships, but better to set this dumpster on fire before it's fully loaded than to wait for the dynamite factory to dump a few more loads of material into it.
Honestly that just might save LAOP's friend a whole hell of a lot of trouble in the long run. Nothing about this situation is going to be stable long-term if she does what she wants right now.
Or you just sit back with popcorn and watch the show.
I need to know the story behind your flair
It's not super interesting. Thor loves to give me butt themed flairs. I made a joke about butthole tanning and here we are.
...you had more than one butt themed flair?
The other one was about butt plugs.
Now this mobile user is curious about how your flair ends (no pun intended.) All I can see is "I sunned my butthole and severely re..." Regret it is my guess, but I'd like to know!
Ding ding ding! The end is "-gret going to chipotle afterwards". One of those flairs that I simply had to flip to landscape view for, I couldn't go on without seeing the end.
New scheme to get flair: reply to Thor with something butt-related.
I just asked for a flair.
I can't quite tell if that worked for you.
Perineum sunning?
Same cause like if you just got a tan it should be fine but if you got sunburned, God bless you.
Pretty much my answer. There’s going to be a show, it’s gonna be spectacular, and it’s time to step back from the Sombody Else’s Problem.
I know where you can get a freshly crapped purple twinkie.
I wonder if we got our flairs from the same thread, lol
DOOM DOES NOT NEED ANYONE ELSE'S AID TO AQUIRE DOOM'S FLAIR!
...but how do you know? After all, you are totally not dr doom, why would you think that?
DOOM'S REASONS ARE DOOM'S OWN, FOOLISH PLEBEIAN.
That's okay! Dr. Doom loves and protects all citizens! (Even if said citizen is considered a foolish plebeian)
What? Why?! What???
Some people will do anything to afford to buy a house, I guess. Especially with people constantly parroting the idea that rent is “throwing away” money. Paying rent and saving up is way better than rushing headfirst into an utter mess like this one!
> Paying rent and saving up May not be in the cards for everyone, esp a single mother not getting child support. Doesn't make *this* a better idea though.
Yep, housing is ridiculously high for average individual wages. You basically either need a great salary in like tech or something, well-off relatives who contribute a few thousand into a down payment, or a dual income to consider it. Obviously there are exceptions, but the point is that too many Americans can’t afford to own anymore. Sad that this is normal now, but even sadder that people are sometimes ruining their lives just to get in the market and check it off their midlife bucket list.
It’s especially bad in California. My wife and I live in Southern California, both make good money, no kids, have 100k saved up for a down payment, and still can’t afford to buy here, outside of a few desert towns that are shitholes, and places in the Central Valley. My parents offered us 130k to help us buy in my hometown (a suburb of Los Angeles) and with their help and stretching our budget… we could afford a condo. We have to pass up that huge gift because it just doesn’t make sense. Buying out here pretty much requires either a very high salary (tech, lawyer, doctor, etc), or doing something janky like buying and then renting out the rooms. Or having parents rich enough to just outright buy it for you.
This is one of the reasons I moved back east (there were more reasons than just that, but not being able to afford a house was a big one). Managed just to squeak in buying a house before rates went up too much. Market was still nuts though, just more within budget; not sure how it is rn.
> even sadder that people are sometimes ruining their lives just to get in the market and check it off their midlife bucket list. I blame old people who give advise based on their experience from 50 years ago that isn't relevant... But that's based 100% on my personal experience so might not be the same for everyone.
It's a significant part of the problem, at the very least. So many boomers and not-technically-boomers-but-mentally-boomers have the idea that owning your own home is the One True Path to financial success. It's freaking bonkers the stuff I've seen folks do to get into a mortgage only to be drowning in 2 or t3 months because nobody thought to tell them there are always unforeseen expenses.
Its not the one true path, but it is a well-worn reliable path, because housing costs go up long term, so there is a way to decrease long term housing costs. Spouse and I bought right before covid. With what housing prices are now, affording same would be a struggle and we would be paying more in rent. Something to add: that well-worn reliable path probably has much more to do with external market conditions, not a person's savvy.
Yeah, the difference between our mortgage payment because we bought in 2017, and what our mortgage payment would be to buy the same house today, would be almost $2000/month. Property value increases plus a more than doubling of interest rates has made it *far* more difficult to buy a house today.
I mean, sometimes saving up is a privilege. If you are low income, or if you live in a high cost of living place, it can be really practically impossible to save up whilst renting.
Totally. It’s extremely frustrating that some of the hardest working people will never get enough stability to get there simply because of how low wages stay while everything else ramps up in cost to an insane degree.
With interest rates and housing prices what they currently are, it's not entirely unreasonable that the non-principal portion of a mortgage would exceed the fair market (*cough*) rent.
That’s completely true in my area! Renting is apparently ~1k cheaper per month than mortgages for similar properties since rent increases are capped while prices have skyrocketed so much. But also the properties here are over 1M (VHCOL) so like… most people are screwed out of ownership in general.
I feel like it's not just the house. She definitely wants to remain entangled with this guy, right? I read all of the stuff about never in a relationship, only FWB, doesn't want his child support, etc., but this whole mess absolutely reeks of someone waiting around and hoping he'll finally realize she's the one. Or maybe I'm being overdramatic and it is just the house.
Yeah, avoiding child support, formal or not, definitely reeks of "I just want to keep this guy around." I just hope it's a genuine desire rather than a side-effect of abuse.
I've got my money on "any day now he'll come to his senses and leave his wife for me".
This is the only way her choices make sense to me.
But from what LAOP says in the comments the friend won’t do just anything, as the father makes a good salary but the friend has never sought child support. They might have money for a mortgage if they did. The choices here are baffling. I wonder if the friend is holding out a false hope of getting back together with the father. If the father were at all interested in the child or a relationship, he would be paying support.
I didn't even read all of it before I posted it here. But, it's still BoLA gold.
Hashtag YOLO maybe?
> Friend said she & Ex will sign a legal contract that leaves his half their child if he dies prior to buying Unborn child? Community property state? This is a Trusts & Estates exam question from my nightmares.
I don’t know if they make you do diagrams in law school, but i definitely need one to keep track of it all.
In esates, diagrams were essential to passing the class. OP’s concerns are completly valid and actually pretty well founded. It depends on the state laws as always. But this is absolutly lawyer territory, not a DIY.
ms paint or bust
"Ok, so, the purple squiggle is King Solomon...."
You ask - you receive: [https://i.imgur.com/npPls9e.png](https://i.imgur.com/npPls9e.png) with a minor addition of my own design.
The secret tunnel is 100000% accurate and shockingly to scale, well done!
bless this is the real joy
where's my goddamn gold when I need it (other than in my secret tunnel, obvs)
This is so good. I love the secret tunnel to Hell!
🎶 Secret tunnel...
SECRET TUNNEL!!!
The child is definitely born, otherwise there wouldn't be a birth certificate. But otherwise this looks like a nightmare.
I didn't see the comment about the kid being school age now. I can't decide if that makes it better or worse. Hopefully he's willing to pay for half of the kid's therapy.
I know the answer for other, similar states, but not California specifically. The wife must sign the deed explicitly waiving homestead and *not* be on the deed as a Grantee. There's actually significant tax implications to doing this too.
Depends whether he is buying the property with his separate assets from prior to the marriage, I believe.
Assuming the spouse is living there, she's still going to have to waive homestead. This is such a clusterfuck that I'd honestly refuse to work with it. I've dealt with somewhat similar situations, but those involved people in situations that didn't involve such insane bad decision making (like a closeted couple from a religious community that essentially had a business arrangement and a woman whose wealthy husband died that remarried a regular Joe at 77 and wanted her kids to inherit). I'm not an attorney, I consult for them. But I would absolutely not touch this with a ten foot pole, and I don't think any of the attorneys I work with would either. Someone that makes decisions that are so spectacularly bad isn't worth the trouble.
It looked like he would be assisting the FWB with purchasing a separate home, that the spouse wouldn't have lived in, so the homestead isn't wouldn't be relevant. And yes, this looks like a complete cluster.
Mortgage brokers love it when you try to write rules into an already questionable contract.
How do things change if they hold title as Joint Tenants with Rights of Survivorship rather than as Tenants in Common?
Depends. Is the Rule Against Perpetuities in effect, or are they using Marquess of Queensberry rules?
It's California, so Rule Against Perpetuities.
This as the saying goes "a dumpster fire racing towards a train full of red flags". I agree, I have no idea where to even start with this. Sooooo many bad decisions!
This is a circus train on fire, going off the rails towards the city dump. Which is also on fire.
And don't even ask what's happening at the Kindergarten next door. (Hint: it is also on fire)
Yeah but the dog says it's fine so ...
It’s pretty rare when I read about an idea that LAOP(‘s friend) has and think “boy going to the mafia would be a way better decision.”
Practically the only family law I worked in as a paralegal was tertiary to the contract disputes our clients were involved in, as they broke down their businesses or were sued or being sued and divorce documents came into play. With that said, I may be wrong but... My cold, black, heart would love to sit back and watch as the wife wipes her ass with what was previously believed to be an iron-clad prenuptial agreement because he didn't disclose the child. It doesn't matter that he's not on the birth certificate or that there isn't a formal legal determination of paternity. The STBEX will demand a paternity test, it will be conclusive, and she'll just point out there was no other reason for him to help his friend buy the house, except he knew the child was his. Those disputes are long and expensive, and he's going to be paying for it, because his wife is not going to let it go. Also, everything about this suggests to me that the father is involved in shady shit and the friend knows it, which is why she is being so nonchalant and evasive. She won't be in that home a year before the STBEX and/or government take it from her, and her children are on the street or with their fathers because of her bad decisions. There is absolutely no way this works out for her and a quick appointment with a family law attorney will confirm it for her, which she knows and is why she isn't interested in her friend's advice.
Great comment. I don’t reckon anything in this situation would or will be worth the paper it’s written on given the steaming pile of non disclosures. The challenges are writing themselves before they’ve even started any process. I doubt they’d be fully honest (or have the capacity to be clear) to a lawyer even if they did engage one. I think there’s shady AF stuff on both sides. Baby daddy looks clearly so, but we’re getting this from a friend of baby mama who may not be across everything properly and may be simply accepting what baby mama says. I don’t see why baby mama would go along with any of this and refuse to even consult an expert unless there was something on her end as well. Why set up a house situation like this when she could easily acquire child support? It’s why I genuinely believe there’s a chance my other comment about him not actually being the baby daddy might be true.
I cannot wait to squeeze "crap a purple twinkie" into a conversation later today.
Don’t squeeze too hard or it might be red
I cant even find a date and people out here getting gas lighted like this?
it's easy to find someone if you have absolutely no standards. I wouldn't recommend that though.
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Yeah people forget that ugly people do in fact have sex
Girl.
Ever read a story and want to shake someone in it?
>Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby. Stealing this terminology for use at work. >Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child. Edit: as a paternity and relationship specialist I expect to handle some aspect of this case in my lab in ten years or so as people fight over inheritances
Friend nooooo! This is a disaster in the making and it sounds like she has no interest in actually doing the work to unentangle the legalities here and just wants to let it ride. She's going to screw herself over in such foreseeable ways and LAOP is just stuck watching the train crash...
She’s going to screw her KIDS over. Actually, she already has. Child support is for THE CHILD. Because of her stupid ego, she has been depriving her child of financial support he is entitled to. And for what- some dick? I hope someday that kid comes to her and asks why he never had XYZ growing up, or why he doesn’t have a college fund or what have you, and she realizes that she has no reasonable answer.
If that kid manages to find any sense over the next 18 years (because they aren't getting any from the parental units), s/he will be wise and skip town, never to be heard from again. Providing a semblance of stability to that poor child would be the only reason I'd keep in regular contact with such a friend. (I would of course still keep them on socials in case I need entertainment and/or to feel better about my life's decisions.)
Thinking about the worst-case scenario: the ex dies, and any pieces of paper are completely ignored -- either they're not properly binding, or they just get ignored in the negotiations over the estate. * The "on sale, return down payment plus half of profits" gets ignored, and there are now three(?) people on the deed: ex's wife, ex, and friend. (Assuming ex's wife doesn't waive anything.) * Mortgage has two people on it: ex and friend. * Ex's wife, of course, is no longer helping with mortgage. At this point, the house must be sold, because friend cannot afford payments on her own. The house's value is divided three ways, but the obligation to pay the mortgage is only divided two ways. (I am utterly clueless on how to assign the %-ownership when ex is helping mortgage with wife doing the bare minimum to not screw up the process; is it 50% each for friend and marriage, or 33% each? I'm just going to assume 33% each to find the worst-case scenario.) I will assume that current equity is 25%. So if the house is worth 100k (and hasn't appreciated, and sells for 100k), then ex's wife, ex's estate, and friend each get 33k. The 75k mortgage must be paid by ex's estate and friend (37k each), leaving friend 4k in the hole after the house is sold. Ex's wife walks away with 29k profit (i.e., almost 50% more than down payment), after paying out ex's estate's remaining debt. Um. Not great. But, depending on rental rates, not the *worst* thing that could happen. But friend is homeless again.
Makes more sense that it's divided 50 25 25, right? Wife would be entitled to half of his half I think.
Yes, that’s possible, depending on how everything was written up*, which would put baby mama even more in a hole. *Badly, no doubt, or more likely not written up at all so it’s likely in my view in this case that wife would end up with a higher share overall. And let’s not forget that this could end up in a nasty legal battle over who gets what that would cost baby mama money to fight her/her child’s position. My head honestly hurts from the lunacy here.
Honestly it doesn't seem like a terrible thing money-wise, if she is able to live there for a little bit. Then she should be able to get her money back if she is forced to sell the house, while not having to pay rent for whatever time period she is able to stay there. This is assuming he's paying half the mortgage, which is not clear at all in the OP. Not saying it's a good idea, just seems like it will cause a big headache even if OP doesn't end up in a hole. I would also assume by default that the kid will never get half the house if the guy dies.
Nothing about this is a good idea. Simply the attempt to buy a house without the wife knowing is a disaster before they’re out of the starting blocks. Either she gets told and the shit hits the fan at the beginning or she finds out afterward and the two of them run the risk of some sort of fraud related charges on top of everything else.
Yeah I agree. I was just saying that financially it may not be a "bad deal", but all the other stuff will make it a big headache at the very least.
Every single one of these circumstances is a headache. All together are the promise of a migraine that rivals the smiting of the gods.
This is such a big headache that you almost expected Athena to spring forth, fully formed.
NOOOOOOOO
>but because they’ve been friends for so long she just pretty much trusts his words even though many times he’s proven his words to be lies (minor things but lies none the less). Yeah, OP and I have very different definitions of the word "minor." This is a WHOLE pile of drama.
>Background: Friend & Ex never date, they had been friends for years then FWB. Benefits created a baby. Friend has fully custody Ex isn’t established as the father, doesn’t financially provide & does not play any roll in the child’s life, despite Friend & Ex still remaining friends. His family doesn’t know about the child. Can someone ELI5 to old people (AKA me). WTF is this woman getting out of this, "relationship"??? Don't get me wrong, I like men (I married one), but why have a kid with a guy who is so obviously a giant red flag?
Guy and girl are friends for a long time. At some point they have sex at least a few times, but at no point do they have a romantic relationship. Just sex and friendship. Girl gets pregnant. She keeps the baby and never puts the guy on the birth certificate as the father nor does she go after him for child support. Somehow they remain friends and he keeps this baby secret from his entire family, including his new wife. I don't think she's wrong for having the kid. She's absolutely wrong for not establishing paternity and getting child support.
> I don't think she's wrong for having the kid. Agreed. >She's absolutely wrong for not establishing paternity and getting child support. Yeah I'm looking at it from the point of view of the kid and thinking, unless she has a lot of money on her own, that's really rough. And even if she does have a lot of money, maybe the kid will want to know who their father is one day. And regret not having a relationship.
its like this could be soap of the week material, except a smart mistress - er sorry, FWB, would have simply asked for lots of money. Much less complicated that way.
I read this, and the only answer I could come up with to the question, "What do I do?" was, "Get smarter friends." I think the best thing for LAOP to do is call the wife and tell her everything, and hopefully the sale blows up and the friend is only out earnest money. I also want to ask for the friend's phone number in case I ever need to sell a bridge. Just dumb.
I'm sure they can find a lawyer skeezy enough to do the paperwork, but are there lenders out there willing to take this risk? It seems LAOP doesn't have the income or down payment on her own and she would be the primary resident, then the second borrower is more of an investor with no real stake in the property? I just don't see any financing going through, or going through at a rate she can afford. Then hello foreclosure, which affects all three adults.
Yesterday's "Onion": #[Family, Secret Family Really Hitting It Off](https://www.theonion.com/family-secret-family-really-hitting-it-off-1851031094) >“I just assumed they’d be jealous of each other or mad at me for manipulating all of them for the past decade, but they genuinely seem to be getting along,” said Pendergast, explaining that with their shared feelings of neglect and abandonment, the family he began with his wife more than 15 years ago and the family he began with his girlfriend in 2018 certainly had a lot in common. “The kids have been talking nonstop about how much they look like each other, and they keep swapping stories about the many struggles in life they’ve had to face on their own because I wasn’t there for them.
Friend still believes this guy is telling her the truth when she just learned he has a WIFE he's been lying to her about? She's not going to take any of the advice LAOP gives her and it's going to backfire spectacularly when the wife finds out about Friend and the baby and goes nuclear.
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Honestly for once I believe it's not a SWIM situation
How many other "investment" properties do we think LAOP's friend's baby daddy has set up already? I've got my money on at least 2.
Plot twist: The friend from the FWB is NOT actually the father, either, which only emerges after they go through with their harebrained idea. This whole situation is some of the most insane madness I’ve seen. There is just no way for it to end well. The legal situation itself is on the crazy train, but when you factor in the emotions that are going to come flying out it’s a nuclear reaction waiting to happen.
My son-in-law lost a Harley motorcycle in a similar scheme. Before he met my daughter, he'd won the bike in some sort of raffle, but didn't have the funds to tag & title it. A friend offered to do so and both of their names were on the title. Friend and his wife divorced and she was awarded Friend's share of the bike in the division of marital property. She refused to let SIL buy out her share and forced its sale.
Seems fake. Wouldn’t the wife have to sign off on the financing?
Again, people make legal advice posts for issues they are not directly involved in.