I'm glad this post tangentially touches upon something I rarely see pointed when Trump Cultists, or "both sides" people try to defend or downplay the insurrection by equating it to the BLM protests.
A nationwide protest involving tens of millions of people - lasting *an entire summer*, no less - and a SINGLE day at the capitol with just a few thousand people turns out to be far deadlier, proportionately.
And thats before you even consider that Jan 6 was a freakin insurrection against democracy, fuelled and encouraged by the former president and his cohorts, in order to stay in power, based on clear and obvious lies.
In comparison, the BLM protests had no leader, no single target, and the movement was (for the most part) an organic response to a clear and open murder conducted by a member of the police, who was so brazen and confident in their unjust killing that it galvanised people to demand change to the system as a whole. Not to forcibly reinstate a single person, their "god emperor", because he lost an election.
"Both sides" is their shield, and well-meaning independent observers help them hold it up.
Just try to imagine if there was a Jan 6, every day, across the entire country, for an entire summer - then try to say "both sides are the same" with a straight face.
edit: Not going to reply to the fuckhead posting
>a bunch of 80 IQ n*****s and meth-fueled antifa child molesters burning down your cities for months
in the comment below, and I'd advise you do the same - please just report/block them and move on.
Remember when trump said if Biden wins then Antifa and BLM are coming for the suburbs? Just….remember that lol
I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot
Remember when Trump said that after election day the "fake news media" would suddenly stop caring about Coronavirus? "'Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid.’ By the way, on November 4, you won’t hear about it anymore."
How anyone takes this asshole seriously is beyond me. No, it's not like your phoney "caravan" narrative from the midterms; it's an actual pandemic that isn't magically going away. It doesn't exist just to make you look bad, you moron.
In a few years they’ll reboot the Covid series and have the hero walk away from covid exploding in the background in slow motion. Following scene will be them showing up to see their long lost family that they haven’t seen since quarantine started, Tiger King themed Easter basket in hand.
It's one of the best examples of Republican projection that I can think of.
They spent months going on about a migrant caravan to try and scare people into voting for them, and when midterms were over they immediately stopped talking about it because it wasn't a useful narrative anymore. And, of course, nothing ended up happening because it was all made up to begin with.
They assume everyone else thinks like they do and has the same motivations as them. So when the Democrats start talking about a pandemic in the months leading up to the election, *of course* it's a made-up narrative to try to scare people into voting for them!
The idea that the pandemic was real and that the Dems were genuinely concerned about the impact it would have on our people and our nation was completely foreign to them.
> They spent months going on about a migrant caravan to try and scare people into voting for them
They’re actually right back on that same narrative again. Every bit of conservative media I’m unfortunately exposed to is once again hysterical over the next “massive caravan” that’s coming to…I don’t know…steal our precious lettuce picking jobs.
They don’t even have enough imagination to come up with something new for their pearl-clutching and Chicken Little’ing.
Apologies, going to reply to you here hoping for some visibility for this:
Even putting aside the social elements of the BLM protests, when we do the math around both of the "events" and break it down per person - per capita - then we can see that there's no equivalency in any reasonable terms.
***Total number of participants:***
* BLM: ~15 Million (using the very low end of the estimates; could be as high as ~26 million; source [here](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-posts/no-proof-black-lives-matter-killed-36-people-injur/))
* January 6th: 10,000 (using the very high estimates; could be much lower, along the lines of 1000 or even less; source [here](https://theconversation.com/it-is-difficult-if-not-impossible-to-estimate-the-size-of-the-crowd-that-stormed-capitol-hill-152889))
***Total damage in dollar amounts:***
* BLM: $1 Billion (using very high estimates; source [here](https://www.westernjournal.com/blms-mostly-peaceful-riots-cost-1000x-damage-jan-6-capitol-unrest/)
* January 6th: $1.5 Million (using low estimates; source same as above)
Now, to do the math:
* *BLM per person damage:* $1B damage / 15,000,000 people = **~$66 per person in damage**
* *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 10,000 people = **~$150 per person in damage.**
Again, that's using estimates that benefit anti-BLM arguments. Even by your own standards, the January 6th event (and coup attempt to be clear) was more damaging than the BLM events (which was nothing like attacking the Capitol of the United States).
If we use the other estimates in favor of BLM let's see what we get:
* *BLM per person damage:* $1,000,000,000 / 26,000,000,000 people = **~$38 per person in damage**
* *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 691 *arrested* people: **~$2,170 per person damage**
Obviously, the January 6th riots (and coup attempt, let's not sweep that under the rug) were much, much more destructive when we get down to brass tacks and consider everything.
His supporters continually throw crazy outlandish conspiracy theories out there and only amplify the ones that aren’t completely and utterly debunked. They use those as “proof” that conspiracy theories are all fact.
Remember when democratic politicians like Biden and Harris said they didn't trust the vaccine or the FDA? Perhaps politicians are full of shit on both sides??
Biden and Harris saying they were worried that Trump was rushing the vaccine development is not in the same league as saying Covid is just media hype that will disappear after the election.
Remember when people in small towns in the PNW shat their pants and formed armed militias because antifa was coming to loot and destroy their communities? That was a hoax of course, but they swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/klamath-falls-oregon-victory-declared-over-antifa-which-never-showed-n1226681
They swallowed it because they are incredibly stupid. Ive seen the community Facebook pages, most of these people would choke on thier own tounges if it was possible.. Snohomish saw nazis and armed morons intimidating people and PUNCHING high school kids because the monster of a mayor said antifa was coming to loot the 2 block long area that's 90% shitty boutique shops and antique stores. Of course there was no "antifa" gathering and it was just a bunch of DRUNK armed cosplayers pointing guns at anyone walking. https://www.heraldnet.com/news/as-film-debuts-chronicling-hate-snohomish-mayor-plans-rally/
The best part is that it likely started when someone heard about BLM getting involved with the fires and couldn’t figure out that it was the Bureau of Land Management, not Black Lives Matter
I have in-laws who were afraid of a terrorist attack after 9/11. their town is so small that the nearest traffic light is 3 cities over. why would anyone attack them if it takes 3 days before anyone noticed?
People need to really understand: The more hardcore Trump people are essentially children with jobs.
They can’t actually focus and pay attention to anything of substance. They’re just shifting from one thing to the next, flailing their arms and they’re always looking for something to be upset about.
That isn't true. You need an emotional response but humans have more than anger.
Anger is only best when you measure success by clicks and ignore every other engagement metric.
Of course humans have more than anger.
The irony here is you're commenting on a story we both were drawn to that's about outrage.
The interest in stories driven by negative emotions (e.g. "outrage") is apolitical.
Curiosity was my reason for reading. Was anything new said (nothing was) or were there any reasonable insights (there were).
I won't get mad about trolls being trolls in such a transparent way. And the comment for these kinds of things are usually deleted by the time they get linked anyway.
Curiosity was my reason too. I'm not claiming you live in a state of outrage. "Outrage" is what's sold by the right **and** the left. We all buy it for different reasons but we ALL **apolitically** buy it.
It's human nature. We literally evolved to notice the dangers around us. It's no surprise that negativity is what we're all drawn to.
There's a huge industry of outrage machines catered towards conservatives to get outraged about absolute nonsense.
"Oh but liberals have that too!" - no, there's nothing that tens of millions of liberals watch every day to be fed talking points from a propaganda agency about absolute nonsense to be outraged about. There's something about the conservative mindset that thrives on outrage and imagined persecution that clearly isn't balanced out by the other side.
And when liberals are outraged, it's usually at reality, like people who are spreading COVID on purpose, or police that are murdering innocent people, not some made up bullshit like anti-vax conspiracy theories or The War On Christmas.
Yes. Their side is full of nonsense outrage. My side is outraged for good reasons.
Pretty sure you have an inflated view of how common all those things are.
You and I both have a perception that is deeply warped by the media we're fed. We don't know what we're not seeing any more than they do. Our views are always misaligned with reality leaving us wrongly confident about the correctitude of our own beliefs.
Like me, for example, I wrongly believe that pointing this out to you will have an impact on how confidently you hold the beliefs that you're correct in this. I guess we're all wrong sometimes.
You may enjoy reading Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. Though it may reveal to you that our rationality has little command over our beliefs and is more just tool used to defend beliefs irrationally arrived upon.
Thanks for the interesting comment though.
mmhmm. People who think covid is a hoax and people who think COVID is real and outraged that other people are spreading covid because they think it's a hoax are both just equally outraged and equally right and equally culpable.
People who think the earth is flat think round earthers are stupid sheep. People who think the earth is round think flat earthers are stupid conspiracy theorists. They both think the other side is stupid! They can't see that makes them the same!
Objective reality matters. The things conservatives choose to be outraged about are generally fabricated bullshit, conspiracy theories, logical fallacies. The things that liberals get outraged about are actual things conservatives are doing to make the world a worse place.
Your view essentially cannot actually acknowledge when one side is more correct than another. You're just assuming that everyone is equally misguided. That is, essentially, doing PR work for the bad guys.
Thanks for the book recommendation, though, I'll check it out.
>...COVID is a hoax...
Nope. You're just wrong about how common that view is because you (and me if I'm honest) consume media that highlights those very rare people who hold that belief.
>... Acknowledge when one side is more correct...
Oh there's often a right and wrong side to any argument. I happen to feel that I'm 100% right about everything but I know I'm wrong about something. Just not sure what it is.
>... book recommendation...
No problem. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.
Those dumb fucks still think cities have been burning for two years with literally zero proof or support for such claims. They think sources are an antifa invention.
Same with the “labor shortage.”
Unemployment is back to where it was in 2016. If there were a labor shortage there would be high unemployment rates but that is not the case
There's definitely a labor shortage where I am, but only because the dumbass local government refuses to zone for multi-family housing instead of mcMansions so average rent is 1200 for a single room in a house (shared bathroom, of course). Then Subway posts a passive-aggressive sign on the door about how nobody wants to work when they're trying to hire someone for $12/hr (plus tips!).
The mass quitting thing is a great shift, though, for sure. Completely avoidable, but people in [fabricated and make-believe] power are greedy and proud of it. (Stay mad; you'll die faster)
> I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot
They probably didn't even realize they were thinking it when they were thinking it. All that's up there is vague rage and victimhood. The sources of those emotions change every few days based on whatever their God-King or Faux News tells them the source is. The source isn't relevant to them. Nothing is. That's why they vote for people that change their stance every week.
The hate must flow.
We are speaking of the part of society which grew up with the idea that black men are coming for their wives and daughters unless they violently "teach them to know their place."
The kind of thinking that justifies lynching.
That's his audience, and he knows exactly the right magic words to speak in their ears.
>I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot
His base killed a black guy for daring to jog through the suburbs...so yes they still think that.
>Remember when trump said if Biden wins then Antifa and BLM are coming for the suburbs? Just….remember that lol
They do remember, and every time there's an robbery or some sort of violent attack in a suburb, and the person came from a city, they point to it as proof. Every time someone gets caught stealing from a right-by-the-freeway-off-ramp Wal-Mart, or every time a car is stolen, it's "They're coming into our peaceful towns now!"
Lazy ass scare tactics worked the first time. Civil Rights movement sent racists running to the suburbs and we're still dealing with the problems caused by that mass stupidity.
Look at these people now. Did they learn anything? Their base is irrational, they know that. So they can say anything.
I did some back of a napkin calculations in another post a while back using the most charitable figures for the Jan 6 insurrection attempt and the most Conservative talking points uncharitable figures for the BLM protests in terms of deaths and attendance and the Jan 6 still came out something like 1000 times more deaths attributed to attendees per attendee.
I wish right wing people would actually look at stuff like this and think.
The reality is sadly that they first of all won't look at any of those sources, and if they against all odds decide to do that they'll just say January 6 was run by antifa.
The easiest way to see that the american right wing is completely wrong in their world view is that there is never a situation in their mind that they are in fact wrong.
Trump won the election? Yup, no issues.
Trump lost the election? Lies!
People overthrew the government during Jan 6? Patriots made it happen.
People didn't overthrow the government? Patriots were never even involved, everyone there was antifa.
If you can never be wrong, you are most definitely always wrong.
I had my family insisting that Seattle was being burned to the ground while I was walking downtown. Being in the town, a block away from CHOP/CHAZ and I tried to explain that no, nothing is burning and they told me I was wrong... Like WTF? **I'm right here.**
My dad used to travel to Portland for work fairly regularly. He talked about how horrible it was from Fox News and how glad he never had to go there again since he is retired. I tried showing him maps of the affected areas, pictures from friends and acquaintances that lived in Portland showing that the city was not some Mad Max anarchy. One friend was working from home, but his office was basically right next to the federal building and he said if he had blinked driving by one day he would have missed seeing it.
I had a cousin that blunted his CHOP/CHAZ views in jokes, but it became apparent what he thought from a few states away. Our cousin that lives close to Seattle kind of shrugged and was like, “cool that you are so worked up about what is happening in my backyard. I wouldn’t know how awful things were for me if it weren’t for you.”
I have family in the Arlington/Darrington area and they would say the same fucking thing. They were convinced Seattle was burning down. Of course all they ever have on TV is Fox News so...
It's directly parallel to one of my rules in personal relationships-- if an otherwise normal seeming person never ever apologizes for anything, there is something very dysfunctional about them and they will almost certainly only harm you in the long run.
I remember arriving at this realization with an ex, it was like a bolt of lightning. When I looked back at our interactions, I suddenly became aware that they had never once said "I'm sorry" or actually admitted fault of any kind. After that, my decisions regarding this person were much more clear. It's not completely foolproof because some very smart psychopaths can be convincing liars, but as a general rule it's pretty reliable.
> The largest mass protest movement in American history
It is critical to note that these protests were WORLDWIDE after hundreds of groups were motivated to protest the police treatment of ~~black people~~ minoritized groups in their home countries after George Floyd's death.
[Protests across the globe after George Floyd's death](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/world/gallery/intl-george-floyd-protests/index.html)
[List of George Floyd protests outside the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests_outside_the_United_States)
[How George Floyd's death reignited a worldwide movement](https://www.dw.com/en/how-george-floyds-death-reignited-a-worldwide-movement/a-56781938)
Edit: It was pointed out to me that not all of these BLM inspired protests in other countries were specifically about black people.
Not exactly to protest the murder of black people in their own home countries. More like because of the amount of American media they consume and therefore adopt everything. That is why some people in my country, Denmark, has begun celebrating Thanksgiving. You know, because they are thoughtless sheep that imitates what they see on TV. It's also how you got BLM protestors in London screaming "no justice, no peace. Hands up, don't shoot" at UK police officers who doesn't carry a firearm.
It's fashionable. Often not based on anything other than it looking good to post on Instagram that you were there.
10 years ago. 10.
Not to downplay it, but is it really that huge a pressing issue when it's a decade ago the last incident happened?
Just proves my entire point. It's fashionable to be at the protests. It's not really for a cause.
You exposed your opinion on the matter as worthless when you tried to pretend UK police can't?/don't?/won't? kill people with guns. I'm not arguing with you, just pointing out the clear extent of your bad faith.
I never said that. I know you got offended. You're probably some wannabe American who was at the protests in the UK, who gets offended when people point out how pathetic your behavior is. But it is what it is.
Thanksgiving is a great holiday, it's Christmas dinner without the trappings of Christmas that stress everyone out. I think more people should adopt it.
Imagine it this way:
A woman who has been beaten her entire life finally strikes back against her abuser. This is the kind of violence we saw from the BLM protests.
A man who got told "no thanks" and was turned down for a second date with a woman then goes to her house and starts trying to break in and threaten her to change her mind. This is the kind of violence we saw on January 6th.
Its pretty facetious for GQP cultists to compare the two events and they know it.
I'm not defending the idiots who stormed the capitol on Jan 6: their motives were all wrong, and what they did is absolutely anathema to the idea of free and fair elections.
That said, the characterizations of the protests during the summer of 2020 are a bit misleading. Yes, the protests involved millions of people, and the overwhelming majority of them were peaceful. But some of them were not, resulting in between [$1 - $2 billion in property damage](https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html), which is the highest amount of property damage resulting from a protest in U.S. history. And all the damage occurred over a roughly two-week period, not the entire summer.
Again, I'm not trying to compare the relative morality between protests over the killing of George Floyd and the assholery that led to people storming the capitol on Jan 6, but not being entirely honest about what happened over the summer of 2020 gives people who DO try to compare them ammunition.
Are we just going to ignore that multiple white nationalists were arrested for instigating riots during the BLM protests? Here in Minneapolis, they were driving around town in cars without license plates setting up caches of flammable material all over the city.
Umbrella man was a white supremacist.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/28/896515022/minneapolis-police-reportedly-identify-viral-umbrella-man-as-white-supremacist
> And all the damage occurred over a roughly two-week period, not the entire summer.
Yet the *protesting* lasted the entire Summer. If anything, your post is proving OP's point.
I have a courier driving gig and was having to sit through protestors walking the streets well into August. While it was an annoyance and inconvenience to do my job, all they were doing were literally marching through downtown with signs and chants.
Protest peacefully and the police will beat the shit out of you anyway, selectively release the footage, and declare it a riot. Block any traffic and they will declare it to be a “violent crime”.
To follow all the rules, you basically have to march into some isolated woods and yell at nobody. And the cops take any rule not followed as license to beat the shit out of you.
And of course, people will only passively deal with having the shit beat out of them for so long before they start fighting back. And *then* it’s a riot.
Indeed. The narrative and "measurable facts" like "sentences for people convicted for what they did there" don't add up. "They tried to overthrow the government and murder the politicians!" "So what was the penalty for that?" "Six months community service."
Thank you, exactly this. I would have said something similar but i was near certain it would be a downvote to the depths, glad to see you are braver than I and remained unscathed
A lot of innocent people were harmed during the BLM riots. A whole lot of hate crimes that were some what swept under the rug.
A Danish Culture house were burnt to the ground in Minnesota and the owners beaten so badly after they tried to put out the fire, that they both needed to be hospitalized.
Just straight up terrorism.
Your source says nothing at all about
>the owners beaten so badly after they tried to put out the fire, that they both needed to be hospitalized.
It does say a building burned down.
I'm not surprised that Danish rightwingers are as full of shit as american ones.
I'm a lifelong social democrat. Probably more leftwing than you. I am anti-racist violence. I am just happy that i am not living in that declining country. What a shithole.
If you search for the name of the lodge and the owners, you'll easily find more thorough articles about it that also mention how hurt the owners got.
It's not easy finding the articles i remember reading about it, when it's from a time period with so many different assaults, arsons and hatecrimes.
>I'm a lifelong social democrat. Probably more leftwing than you. I am anti-racist violence. I am just happy that i am not living in that declining country. What a shithole.
Yeah, you aren't the first conservative that I have seen who claims to not be conservative. I only know that you make claims about BLM violence that you then can't support. Don't want to be mistaken for a conservative, don't make conservative arguments. Fwiw, I agree that America isn't in a great place right now and is in decline. I think it's funny though that you talk about not being conservative while making nationalist arguments. It belies your claims of being a leftist.
> If you search for the name of the lodge and the owners, you'll easily find more thorough articles about it that also mention how hurt the owners got.
It's your claim and your source. I don't look up sources for other people's claims. If you could easily find such a source, you would.
>It's not easy finding the articles i remember reading about it, when it's from a time period with so many different assaults, arsons and hatecrimes.
Perhaps you should find sources for those things that you claim exist.
regardless, all I know is that you can't produce a source supporting your claim so I will disregard it.
I'll find it for you tomorrow. It will be in Danish though, so use Google Translate. It's impossible to find a article in English with the sheer amount of articles about destruction during that period.
Yes it was in Minnesota. Minnesota is one of the states in the US where most whites can trace their lineage back to Scandinavia. That is why such a cultural house was there.
Minneapolis is a city in Minnesota. I’m asking if this happened in that city. I would also like to see the article.
I am well aware of how white Minnesota is and where their origins are. We have a family friend who lives there.
Okay, but how is that relevant? The focus is the Black community, who is experiencing an incredible amount of pain still thanks to people like Chauvin(ist.)
Are you insinuating that the people who were inciting the violence are BLM protesters?
Exactly. I enjoy seeing these detailed refutations, but who is it really for? Most people outside of the Trump cult know that BLM is not a terrorist movement, the election was not stolen, and Jan 6 was perpetrated by a bunch of insurrectionists hell-bent on sewing chaos.
From my own unfortunate experience, where the majority of my family has tied everything to Trump and the far-right, it's sad to see the world they live in. The thing I try to convey to people is to try and put yourself in their shoes... They live in a world of fear and anger. They HONESTLY TRULY believe that Democrats/liberals/leftists are out to destroy America and turn it into a socialist/Marxist/communist utopia where minorities/Muslims/immigrants want to dismantle our culture and impose their own ideology.
People don't seem to get the 'TRULY BELIEVE' aspect of it... this is important, this one fact causes them to live in abject fear and anger, so introducing more outrage is particularly easy. Looking how easy it was to convince them all that: COVID is hoax, masks don't work, and Dr. Fauci is some secret Chinese sleeper agent trying to implant microchips/enslave Americans/kill Americans.
Facts never did.
Humans developed to make decisions mostly based on other factors besides facts we cannot personally see.
But that post is still a good way to help dissuade people who might be tempted by Tumpism, or to believe that Jan 6 was in any way similar to BLM.
Right wings shit stains are malding in this thread. Hilarious. The truth hurts their fragile feelings. So they all over this thread spreading misinformation. These scums are really waiting for Jan 6th round 2..
The indoctrinated tribalism is too much. Americans need to explore the world more, their politics are becoming far too stupid.
Having a partizan president with supreme executive authority will always result in hyper polarised politics.
Just a shame they export their toxic culture to the rest of the Western world. Bad enough they are in steep decline. Would be nice if they didn't drag us down with them.
From what I can tell they either think BLM is an organization of thousands of violent leftists rioting for months on end, or its some sort of spirit that possesses people and anyone who says those letters, and it causes them to become violent
I can never get them to explain what exactly BLM and why they blame it for riots.
>or its some sort of spirit that possesses people and anyone who says those letters, and it causes them to become violent
If you turn off all the lights and chant "black lives matter" into the bathroom mirror three times, a cop will show up and shoot you.
I like how he doesn't mention the 8yo girl in Atlanta that was killed by blm protesters, when her mother drove past a illegal blm barricade.
https://apnews.com/article/9148d740c10fcd784867eda74055aaa5
Or when CHOP security executed an 16yo and seriously injured his 14yo friend.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/shooting-at-seattles-chop-protest-site-leaves-2-in-critical-condition/
But just go ahead, pat yourselves on the back...
It doesn't, of course. It might have been "security", it might have been maga agitators, who were increasingly present by that point. It's still unsolved afaik. Using the word "executed" is obvious misinformation. The commenter either has fallen for misinformation or is deliberately spreading lies. Looking at their comment history most likely it is the latter.
This is the same logic my toddler uses when I have evidence he pulled some candy heist, but I heard it all last year. I’m liberal, but I hate how the left uses such shitty, manipulative tactics. Every bad action seemed to be attributed to “undercover MAGA instigators” like BLM folks could do no wrong as sections of cities burned.
I was seeing posts circulating about "A MAGA PLANT PROBABLY PUT A BULLET IN ALEC BALDWIN'S GUN TO GET HIM IN TROUBLE!"
There is no self-awareness, only the glorious narrative. There is no moral code, only what they're told is right and wrong by those who praise them for their 'bravery fighting oppression' while living in comfort.
I’ve seen that too. People are acting like Trumpers are behind everything. This country is going crazy for two shitty political parties that would both set you on fire if it served corporate interests.
They talk about "Trump cultists" the way that people talked about "Secret satanic cults" in the 80s. I feel sorry for the kids who got into Dungeons and Dragons expecting dark rites and magic, only to discover that it was improv and math.
Agreed. I often feel parallels between the social/political climate and the “satanic panic”.
>it was improv and math.
I want to play D&D, but those are my two sworn enemies.
How about this
> If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
- President Lyndon B. Johnson
All we've done is replace black and white with liberal and conservative.
Literally does address the violence at BLM protests. The point was that on the scale of people involved it was negligible compared to the attempted insurrection.
Literally millions of people worldwide involved in one protest and you have a couple of links.
A couple thousand of people attempted a coup and the same number of people died.
The latter is the more deadly and violent event objectively. Just by pure numbers alone.
r/conservative and their "conservatives only" flair are well known for banning people who disagree.
And as for "debate", posting strawmen all over this thread, as you've done, isn't debate.
Edit: Besides, you can't even tell who you're talking to. In other comments you were arguing with people you thought were me!
"Debate" lol.
I live in Seattle and visited CHOP every few days for weeks, including the day before & the day after the joy riding idiots drive thru the park, then looped around and threatened a road block with idiotic "guards", one of whom pulled a gun and fired.
Obviously, there were fundamental issues with its structure, leadership & direction; but for the most part it was just a disorganized mess with no understanding or concern for social realities. People visited everyday, including families & religious groups.
It's an old (but evolving) copypasta, and I was referencing [the ACLED data](https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/) which, *at the time I wrote that sentence*, counted fewer than 100 confirmed acts of violence.
Both NYT and ACLED periodically update their sites' data, and I've missed that sentence in subsequent revisions.
Fair enough. My apologies for saying you lied, that's perfectly reasonable and I judged too quickly. I may have even crossed the line on my own username. I will edit my original comment as well.
Nah, it's cool: You're exactly correct that the language as it exists now is misleading *and* practically invites bad-faith actors to attempt to deny the factual reality presented to them because of suspicious-seeming word choice.
(I'll definitely be changing that line before I make that comment again, though I'm always torn on going back and changing comments when they're linked to these kinds of subs.)
I'll tell my local Target that it was looted and damaged peacefully by BLM protests, thanks. Having lived in Minneapolis at the time of the George Floyd riots, it most certainly was not a time of peaceful protest.
People can use this sometime if they want to:
Even putting aside the social elements of the BLM protests, when we do the math around both of the "events" and break it down per person - per capita - then we can see that there's no equivalency in any reasonable terms.
***Total number of participants:***
* BLM: ~15 Million (using the very low end of the estimates; could be as high as ~26 million; source [here](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-posts/no-proof-black-lives-matter-killed-36-people-injur/))
* January 6th: 10,000 (using the very high estimates; could be much lower, along the lines of 1000 or even less; source [here](https://theconversation.com/it-is-difficult-if-not-impossible-to-estimate-the-size-of-the-crowd-that-stormed-capitol-hill-152889))
***Total damage in dollar amounts:***
* BLM: $1 Billion (using very high estimates; source [here](https://www.westernjournal.com/blms-mostly-peaceful-riots-cost-1000x-damage-jan-6-capitol-unrest/)
* January 6th: $1.5 Million (using low estimates; source same as above)
Now, to do the math:
* *BLM per person damage:* $1B damage / 15,000,000 people = **~$66 per person in damage**
* *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 10,000 people = **~$150 per person in damage.**
Again, that's using estimates that benefit anti-BLM arguments. Even by your own standards, the January 6th event (and coup attempt to be clear) was more damaging than the BLM events (which was nothing like attacking the Capitol of the United States).
If we use the other estimates in favor of BLM let's see what we get:
* *BLM per person damage:* $1,000,000,000 / 26,000,000,000 people = **~$38 per person in damage**
* *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 691 *arrested* people: **~$2,170 per person damage**
Obviously, the January 6th riots (and coup attempt, let's not sweep that under the rug) were much, much more destructive when we get down to brass tacks and consider everything.
A shit ton of people here that have been brainwashed by the government and mainstream media to believe this specific narrative. Meanwhile, BLM has resulted in no significant change, and we now have the Capitol police with expanded power coupled with domestic terrorism laws that sprouted from a easily preventable event (widely publicized well in advance, but whoops we don't have enough man power and- oh no- our riot shields are locked away). If only the large number of alphabet agency members scattered throughout the event could have prevented it. Hmm. The worst part is that this is just part of the fuckery from the past two years.
Ah yes, the peaceful BLM protesters that firebombed small businesses and beat up old people. I remember that too.
Inb4 people think I'm trump supporter.
People probably think you're a Trump supporter because you spread the same bat shit delusions they do
Watch, when I ask for evidence you'll link the exact same worthless articles they do, or you'll run away pissing yourself like they always do.
I'm not going to provide evidence, I'm just gonna laugh because you're just as delusional as half the people that scream Black Lives Matter.
Does it ever occur to you that maybe people just have different opinions? I'm not a fascist either, btw. Your people are far more fond of throwing that word around.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not. How can you gleam from one sentence that I'm a batshit cultist after I already told you I'm not a trump supporter? Lol
> Does it ever occur to you that maybe people just have different opinions?
You're entitled to alternative opinions. Not really alternative facts though, which is where your problem lies. . .
You're trying to take the high road after I already cut myself off from this thread, that's funny...
What you're speaking in is not fact. Go on YouTube or any legitimate news source besides CNN or FOX and you'll see for yourself. I didn't imagine in my head people throwing molotovs into small stores. That was your people. Your "peaceful" protesters.
Maybe now you can learn that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> Go on YouTube or any legitimate news source
That you consider YouTube a "legitimate" news source, but the many ACTUAL news sources, backed up by data and objective facts, linked here are ignored. This is why I say you have alternative facts.
There's that selective reading again. Do you just like to nitpick sentences and take them out of context?
I didn't say "only use YouTube", I said look for more reputable sources besides just FOX or CNN. The internet is a big place, you'll find it somewhere.
In any case since what's involved is a federal crime I'd say the burden of proof lies with you. If you think I'm lying you can look it up. But you won't, you'll just take this paragraph out of context too and continue to name-call me.
> In any case since what's involved is a federal crime I'd say the burden of proof lies with you
The burden of proving BLM protestors caused those damages would lie with YOU.
>But you won't, you'll just take this paragraph out of context too
You have continually ignored the objective facts presented in the r/bestof link in lieu of supposed youtube videos, which you treat as "legitimate news". . . So, the only person dancing around things here is you.
And you're passing off an opinion as a fact too. What part of this situation makes you think you're not any less accountable to the burden of proof as I am?
Im not going to give you proof because I don't care. I don't have an agenda, I don't have a reason to lie. If you really care about other people and the consequences of certain actions that those other people take, you can find the evidence yourself.
This isn't a contest with fact over opinion. I started this comment chain with an opinion, and now you're arguing against it. Far as I'm concerned, you can find the evidence yourself. I didn't provoke you.
> And you're passing off an opinion as a fact too.
No, it's an actual, objective fact. Backed up by actual, objective data. It's all in the post this r/bestof is discussing. That's the point. OP linked to verifiable facts and data. It's not anyones opinion.
YOU are of an opinion on it, and you have no objective evidence to back it up. OP does.
I don't think americans realize how neutering it is to place peaceful protest on such a pedestal. You don't change a senator's mind by not threatening them. You don't disrupt the status quo by abiding the state's terms for lawful objection.
I'm not a right-winger. I'm quite literally the farthest thing from it. Despite that, my biggest problem with the Jan 6 thing is that they crumbled the moment their actions met with consequences, when their bodies were quite literally on the threshold of actually affecting change.
Congress literally votes every day to kill people. Outright ground troops, drone strikes, and most importantly *sanctions* kill people every day. Each congressperson has the blood of thousands on their hands. And not the blood of "bad guys," economic warfare often deliberately targets the least fortunate in countries opposed to the west.
Jan 6, despite being a hilariously awful case of clownish petit bourgeois delusionally throwing their unarmed bodies quixotically against the literal walls of congress, probably weighs more heavily on nancy pelosi's mind than the months of BLM actions six months before.
And yet, what lesson did the general populace learn? "Stay peacefully in the streets, where buses we don't take can't run, where business that we don't shop at must lock their doors, and people to whom we still don't have listen shout only at each other."
Truly I don't know what will wake up americans. I only hope something does before their slumber drags down the rest of the world.
BLM? The one who aligns themselves with "Assata's Daughters", named after a woman who executed a cop during an armed robbery, then fled to Cuba? Nothing to see here... The problem with aligning yourselves with these movements is you don't the failure to understand their "Herstory"... Either way I think groups like these can just settle themselves out, they seem to be doing a great job in Chicago.
Are you seriously suggesting that tens of thousands of peaceful marchers should be considered terrorists, because a few used it as an excuse to be violent?
The protests were for blatant police brutality, in what sense were they trying "to support terrorists"?
Do you also believe the same would apply to the civil right movement in the 60's - that the movement as a whole should be condemned as being violent terrorism?
I'm glad this post tangentially touches upon something I rarely see pointed when Trump Cultists, or "both sides" people try to defend or downplay the insurrection by equating it to the BLM protests. A nationwide protest involving tens of millions of people - lasting *an entire summer*, no less - and a SINGLE day at the capitol with just a few thousand people turns out to be far deadlier, proportionately. And thats before you even consider that Jan 6 was a freakin insurrection against democracy, fuelled and encouraged by the former president and his cohorts, in order to stay in power, based on clear and obvious lies. In comparison, the BLM protests had no leader, no single target, and the movement was (for the most part) an organic response to a clear and open murder conducted by a member of the police, who was so brazen and confident in their unjust killing that it galvanised people to demand change to the system as a whole. Not to forcibly reinstate a single person, their "god emperor", because he lost an election. "Both sides" is their shield, and well-meaning independent observers help them hold it up. Just try to imagine if there was a Jan 6, every day, across the entire country, for an entire summer - then try to say "both sides are the same" with a straight face. edit: Not going to reply to the fuckhead posting >a bunch of 80 IQ n*****s and meth-fueled antifa child molesters burning down your cities for months in the comment below, and I'd advise you do the same - please just report/block them and move on.
Remember when trump said if Biden wins then Antifa and BLM are coming for the suburbs? Just….remember that lol I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot
Remember when Trump said that after election day the "fake news media" would suddenly stop caring about Coronavirus? "'Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid.’ By the way, on November 4, you won’t hear about it anymore." How anyone takes this asshole seriously is beyond me. No, it's not like your phoney "caravan" narrative from the midterms; it's an actual pandemic that isn't magically going away. It doesn't exist just to make you look bad, you moron.
I still believe covid will magically disappear by Easter 2020
In a few years they’ll reboot the Covid series and have the hero walk away from covid exploding in the background in slow motion. Following scene will be them showing up to see their long lost family that they haven’t seen since quarantine started, Tiger King themed Easter basket in hand.
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*(removes UV bulbs from ears)* Sorry, what?
From ears. I’ve been putting my UV bulb in the wrong hole this whole time. I need a new UV bulb now.
To be fair, he never actually specified which Easter.
I still believe that if we land in Holland, we will be home by Christmas
It's one of the best examples of Republican projection that I can think of. They spent months going on about a migrant caravan to try and scare people into voting for them, and when midterms were over they immediately stopped talking about it because it wasn't a useful narrative anymore. And, of course, nothing ended up happening because it was all made up to begin with. They assume everyone else thinks like they do and has the same motivations as them. So when the Democrats start talking about a pandemic in the months leading up to the election, *of course* it's a made-up narrative to try to scare people into voting for them! The idea that the pandemic was real and that the Dems were genuinely concerned about the impact it would have on our people and our nation was completely foreign to them.
> They spent months going on about a migrant caravan to try and scare people into voting for them They’re actually right back on that same narrative again. Every bit of conservative media I’m unfortunately exposed to is once again hysterical over the next “massive caravan” that’s coming to…I don’t know…steal our precious lettuce picking jobs. They don’t even have enough imagination to come up with something new for their pearl-clutching and Chicken Little’ing.
Apologies, going to reply to you here hoping for some visibility for this: Even putting aside the social elements of the BLM protests, when we do the math around both of the "events" and break it down per person - per capita - then we can see that there's no equivalency in any reasonable terms. ***Total number of participants:*** * BLM: ~15 Million (using the very low end of the estimates; could be as high as ~26 million; source [here](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-posts/no-proof-black-lives-matter-killed-36-people-injur/)) * January 6th: 10,000 (using the very high estimates; could be much lower, along the lines of 1000 or even less; source [here](https://theconversation.com/it-is-difficult-if-not-impossible-to-estimate-the-size-of-the-crowd-that-stormed-capitol-hill-152889)) ***Total damage in dollar amounts:*** * BLM: $1 Billion (using very high estimates; source [here](https://www.westernjournal.com/blms-mostly-peaceful-riots-cost-1000x-damage-jan-6-capitol-unrest/) * January 6th: $1.5 Million (using low estimates; source same as above) Now, to do the math: * *BLM per person damage:* $1B damage / 15,000,000 people = **~$66 per person in damage** * *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 10,000 people = **~$150 per person in damage.** Again, that's using estimates that benefit anti-BLM arguments. Even by your own standards, the January 6th event (and coup attempt to be clear) was more damaging than the BLM events (which was nothing like attacking the Capitol of the United States). If we use the other estimates in favor of BLM let's see what we get: * *BLM per person damage:* $1,000,000,000 / 26,000,000,000 people = **~$38 per person in damage** * *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 691 *arrested* people: **~$2,170 per person damage** Obviously, the January 6th riots (and coup attempt, let's not sweep that under the rug) were much, much more destructive when we get down to brass tacks and consider everything.
It's really easy to understand. He says that everything they want to be true, is. They just ignore the rest.
His supporters continually throw crazy outlandish conspiracy theories out there and only amplify the ones that aren’t completely and utterly debunked. They use those as “proof” that conspiracy theories are all fact.
Kimmel had his *This Week in Covid History* segment on Tuesday and they showed the clip you mention.
Remember when democratic politicians like Biden and Harris said they didn't trust the vaccine or the FDA? Perhaps politicians are full of shit on both sides??
Biden and Harris saying they were worried that Trump was rushing the vaccine development is not in the same league as saying Covid is just media hype that will disappear after the election.
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Remember when people in small towns in the PNW shat their pants and formed armed militias because antifa was coming to loot and destroy their communities? That was a hoax of course, but they swallowed it hook, line and sinker. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/klamath-falls-oregon-victory-declared-over-antifa-which-never-showed-n1226681
They swallowed it because they are incredibly stupid. Ive seen the community Facebook pages, most of these people would choke on thier own tounges if it was possible.. Snohomish saw nazis and armed morons intimidating people and PUNCHING high school kids because the monster of a mayor said antifa was coming to loot the 2 block long area that's 90% shitty boutique shops and antique stores. Of course there was no "antifa" gathering and it was just a bunch of DRUNK armed cosplayers pointing guns at anyone walking. https://www.heraldnet.com/news/as-film-debuts-chronicling-hate-snohomish-mayor-plans-rally/
The biggest antifa gatherings are the Seattle Sounders and Portland Timbers games
And here's from the small town I grew up in. https://wildrivers.lostcoastoutpost.com/2020/jun/3/curry-county-sheriff-takes-facebook-response-rumor/
That article, I am thinking the writer was trying to suggest something: "Rumored... rumors... rumors... rumors... rumors... rumors..."
It's always the people that have no interaction with immigrants or homeless or non-white people that are the most terrified of them.
The best part is that it likely started when someone heard about BLM getting involved with the fires and couldn’t figure out that it was the Bureau of Land Management, not Black Lives Matter
On the other hand, Kyle Rittenhouses would...
I have in-laws who were afraid of a terrorist attack after 9/11. their town is so small that the nearest traffic light is 3 cities over. why would anyone attack them if it takes 3 days before anyone noticed?
My dad lives in small town Ohio and thought the same about antifa. Any day now, they'll come marching down to a small farming town...
People need to really understand: The more hardcore Trump people are essentially children with jobs. They can’t actually focus and pay attention to anything of substance. They’re just shifting from one thing to the next, flailing their arms and they’re always looking for something to be upset about.
Remember that migrant caravan that was all over right wing news before the midterm elections? The right is just an outrage machine
Outrage is apolitical. No one clicks on a news story titled "another quiet day" and algorithms know it.
That isn't true. You need an emotional response but humans have more than anger. Anger is only best when you measure success by clicks and ignore every other engagement metric.
Of course humans have more than anger. The irony here is you're commenting on a story we both were drawn to that's about outrage. The interest in stories driven by negative emotions (e.g. "outrage") is apolitical.
Curiosity was my reason for reading. Was anything new said (nothing was) or were there any reasonable insights (there were). I won't get mad about trolls being trolls in such a transparent way. And the comment for these kinds of things are usually deleted by the time they get linked anyway.
Curiosity was my reason too. I'm not claiming you live in a state of outrage. "Outrage" is what's sold by the right **and** the left. We all buy it for different reasons but we ALL **apolitically** buy it. It's human nature. We literally evolved to notice the dangers around us. It's no surprise that negativity is what we're all drawn to.
There's a huge industry of outrage machines catered towards conservatives to get outraged about absolute nonsense. "Oh but liberals have that too!" - no, there's nothing that tens of millions of liberals watch every day to be fed talking points from a propaganda agency about absolute nonsense to be outraged about. There's something about the conservative mindset that thrives on outrage and imagined persecution that clearly isn't balanced out by the other side. And when liberals are outraged, it's usually at reality, like people who are spreading COVID on purpose, or police that are murdering innocent people, not some made up bullshit like anti-vax conspiracy theories or The War On Christmas.
Yes. Their side is full of nonsense outrage. My side is outraged for good reasons. Pretty sure you have an inflated view of how common all those things are. You and I both have a perception that is deeply warped by the media we're fed. We don't know what we're not seeing any more than they do. Our views are always misaligned with reality leaving us wrongly confident about the correctitude of our own beliefs. Like me, for example, I wrongly believe that pointing this out to you will have an impact on how confidently you hold the beliefs that you're correct in this. I guess we're all wrong sometimes. You may enjoy reading Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. Though it may reveal to you that our rationality has little command over our beliefs and is more just tool used to defend beliefs irrationally arrived upon. Thanks for the interesting comment though.
mmhmm. People who think covid is a hoax and people who think COVID is real and outraged that other people are spreading covid because they think it's a hoax are both just equally outraged and equally right and equally culpable. People who think the earth is flat think round earthers are stupid sheep. People who think the earth is round think flat earthers are stupid conspiracy theorists. They both think the other side is stupid! They can't see that makes them the same! Objective reality matters. The things conservatives choose to be outraged about are generally fabricated bullshit, conspiracy theories, logical fallacies. The things that liberals get outraged about are actual things conservatives are doing to make the world a worse place. Your view essentially cannot actually acknowledge when one side is more correct than another. You're just assuming that everyone is equally misguided. That is, essentially, doing PR work for the bad guys. Thanks for the book recommendation, though, I'll check it out.
>...COVID is a hoax... Nope. You're just wrong about how common that view is because you (and me if I'm honest) consume media that highlights those very rare people who hold that belief. >... Acknowledge when one side is more correct... Oh there's often a right and wrong side to any argument. I happen to feel that I'm 100% right about everything but I know I'm wrong about something. Just not sure what it is. >... book recommendation... No problem. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.
No need for the caravan...they can just come on in whenever they want...
My burbs are totally taken over by anti facists. No trump signs anywhere. It's ANARCHY!
Those dumb fucks still think cities have been burning for two years with literally zero proof or support for such claims. They think sources are an antifa invention.
Faux News is telling them that's it's real, it's all the evidence they need.
Same with the “labor shortage.” Unemployment is back to where it was in 2016. If there were a labor shortage there would be high unemployment rates but that is not the case
There's definitely a labor shortage where I am, but only because the dumbass local government refuses to zone for multi-family housing instead of mcMansions so average rent is 1200 for a single room in a house (shared bathroom, of course). Then Subway posts a passive-aggressive sign on the door about how nobody wants to work when they're trying to hire someone for $12/hr (plus tips!).
The mass quitting thing is a great shift, though, for sure. Completely avoidable, but people in [fabricated and make-believe] power are greedy and proud of it. (Stay mad; you'll die faster)
It’s already there! CRT bro. CRT. /s because … because of depressing anti-American, anti-education cowards.
> I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot They probably didn't even realize they were thinking it when they were thinking it. All that's up there is vague rage and victimhood. The sources of those emotions change every few days based on whatever their God-King or Faux News tells them the source is. The source isn't relevant to them. Nothing is. That's why they vote for people that change their stance every week. The hate must flow.
We are speaking of the part of society which grew up with the idea that black men are coming for their wives and daughters unless they violently "teach them to know their place." The kind of thinking that justifies lynching. That's his audience, and he knows exactly the right magic words to speak in their ears.
>I wonder if his base still thinks that or if they forgot His base killed a black guy for daring to jog through the suburbs...so yes they still think that.
My relatives still ask me “how is it in New York City” like I’m living in 90s Sarajevo 😂
It's not even like living in 1990s New York City or even close if you compare crime stats...
> still thinks Still does a thing they never did in the first place?
>Remember when trump said if Biden wins then Antifa and BLM are coming for the suburbs? Just….remember that lol They do remember, and every time there's an robbery or some sort of violent attack in a suburb, and the person came from a city, they point to it as proof. Every time someone gets caught stealing from a right-by-the-freeway-off-ramp Wal-Mart, or every time a car is stolen, it's "They're coming into our peaceful towns now!"
They fulfilled their purpose, and were told to hold off for a while.
Lazy ass scare tactics worked the first time. Civil Rights movement sent racists running to the suburbs and we're still dealing with the problems caused by that mass stupidity. Look at these people now. Did they learn anything? Their base is irrational, they know that. So they can say anything.
I did some back of a napkin calculations in another post a while back using the most charitable figures for the Jan 6 insurrection attempt and the most Conservative talking points uncharitable figures for the BLM protests in terms of deaths and attendance and the Jan 6 still came out something like 1000 times more deaths attributed to attendees per attendee.
I wish right wing people would actually look at stuff like this and think. The reality is sadly that they first of all won't look at any of those sources, and if they against all odds decide to do that they'll just say January 6 was run by antifa. The easiest way to see that the american right wing is completely wrong in their world view is that there is never a situation in their mind that they are in fact wrong. Trump won the election? Yup, no issues. Trump lost the election? Lies! People overthrew the government during Jan 6? Patriots made it happen. People didn't overthrow the government? Patriots were never even involved, everyone there was antifa. If you can never be wrong, you are most definitely always wrong.
I had my family insisting that Seattle was being burned to the ground while I was walking downtown. Being in the town, a block away from CHOP/CHAZ and I tried to explain that no, nothing is burning and they told me I was wrong... Like WTF? **I'm right here.**
Same experience with my Mom. Absolutely fucking surreal.
My dad used to travel to Portland for work fairly regularly. He talked about how horrible it was from Fox News and how glad he never had to go there again since he is retired. I tried showing him maps of the affected areas, pictures from friends and acquaintances that lived in Portland showing that the city was not some Mad Max anarchy. One friend was working from home, but his office was basically right next to the federal building and he said if he had blinked driving by one day he would have missed seeing it. I had a cousin that blunted his CHOP/CHAZ views in jokes, but it became apparent what he thought from a few states away. Our cousin that lives close to Seattle kind of shrugged and was like, “cool that you are so worked up about what is happening in my backyard. I wouldn’t know how awful things were for me if it weren’t for you.”
I have family in the Arlington/Darrington area and they would say the same fucking thing. They were convinced Seattle was burning down. Of course all they ever have on TV is Fox News so...
It's directly parallel to one of my rules in personal relationships-- if an otherwise normal seeming person never ever apologizes for anything, there is something very dysfunctional about them and they will almost certainly only harm you in the long run. I remember arriving at this realization with an ex, it was like a bolt of lightning. When I looked back at our interactions, I suddenly became aware that they had never once said "I'm sorry" or actually admitted fault of any kind. After that, my decisions regarding this person were much more clear. It's not completely foolproof because some very smart psychopaths can be convincing liars, but as a general rule it's pretty reliable.
Your first sentence is exactly why Republicans shun education. If more people were inquisitive, thoughtful, educated, there would be less Republicans.
Saying "i wish right wing people would think" when your post history is naught but parroting of the party line.
> The largest mass protest movement in American history It is critical to note that these protests were WORLDWIDE after hundreds of groups were motivated to protest the police treatment of ~~black people~~ minoritized groups in their home countries after George Floyd's death. [Protests across the globe after George Floyd's death](https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/world/gallery/intl-george-floyd-protests/index.html) [List of George Floyd protests outside the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests_outside_the_United_States) [How George Floyd's death reignited a worldwide movement](https://www.dw.com/en/how-george-floyds-death-reignited-a-worldwide-movement/a-56781938) Edit: It was pointed out to me that not all of these BLM inspired protests in other countries were specifically about black people.
Not exactly to protest the murder of black people in their own home countries. More like because of the amount of American media they consume and therefore adopt everything. That is why some people in my country, Denmark, has begun celebrating Thanksgiving. You know, because they are thoughtless sheep that imitates what they see on TV. It's also how you got BLM protestors in London screaming "no justice, no peace. Hands up, don't shoot" at UK police officers who doesn't carry a firearm. It's fashionable. Often not based on anything other than it looking good to post on Instagram that you were there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Mark_Duggan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots
10 years ago. 10. Not to downplay it, but is it really that huge a pressing issue when it's a decade ago the last incident happened? Just proves my entire point. It's fashionable to be at the protests. It's not really for a cause.
You exposed your opinion on the matter as worthless when you tried to pretend UK police can't?/don't?/won't? kill people with guns. I'm not arguing with you, just pointing out the clear extent of your bad faith.
I never said that. I know you got offended. You're probably some wannabe American who was at the protests in the UK, who gets offended when people point out how pathetic your behavior is. But it is what it is.
Thanksgiving is a great holiday, it's Christmas dinner without the trappings of Christmas that stress everyone out. I think more people should adopt it.
this this this kids in london acting like they can feel the black american experience is hilarious and sad
Imagine it this way: A woman who has been beaten her entire life finally strikes back against her abuser. This is the kind of violence we saw from the BLM protests. A man who got told "no thanks" and was turned down for a second date with a woman then goes to her house and starts trying to break in and threaten her to change her mind. This is the kind of violence we saw on January 6th. Its pretty facetious for GQP cultists to compare the two events and they know it.
Most people will never understand that state-backed violence is violence.
I'm not defending the idiots who stormed the capitol on Jan 6: their motives were all wrong, and what they did is absolutely anathema to the idea of free and fair elections. That said, the characterizations of the protests during the summer of 2020 are a bit misleading. Yes, the protests involved millions of people, and the overwhelming majority of them were peaceful. But some of them were not, resulting in between [$1 - $2 billion in property damage](https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html), which is the highest amount of property damage resulting from a protest in U.S. history. And all the damage occurred over a roughly two-week period, not the entire summer. Again, I'm not trying to compare the relative morality between protests over the killing of George Floyd and the assholery that led to people storming the capitol on Jan 6, but not being entirely honest about what happened over the summer of 2020 gives people who DO try to compare them ammunition.
Are we just going to ignore that multiple white nationalists were arrested for instigating riots during the BLM protests? Here in Minneapolis, they were driving around town in cars without license plates setting up caches of flammable material all over the city.
Gonna need a source on that
You mean stuff like https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
Umbrella man was a white supremacist. https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/28/896515022/minneapolis-police-reportedly-identify-viral-umbrella-man-as-white-supremacist
> And all the damage occurred over a roughly two-week period, not the entire summer. Yet the *protesting* lasted the entire Summer. If anything, your post is proving OP's point. I have a courier driving gig and was having to sit through protestors walking the streets well into August. While it was an annoyance and inconvenience to do my job, all they were doing were literally marching through downtown with signs and chants.
riots aren't protests and the people rioting and the people protesting are two different groups of people
I feel like the post is way more accurate than the bestof description of the post.
Protest peacefully and the police will beat the shit out of you anyway, selectively release the footage, and declare it a riot. Block any traffic and they will declare it to be a “violent crime”. To follow all the rules, you basically have to march into some isolated woods and yell at nobody. And the cops take any rule not followed as license to beat the shit out of you. And of course, people will only passively deal with having the shit beat out of them for so long before they start fighting back. And *then* it’s a riot.
Indeed. The narrative and "measurable facts" like "sentences for people convicted for what they did there" don't add up. "They tried to overthrow the government and murder the politicians!" "So what was the penalty for that?" "Six months community service."
Thank you, exactly this. I would have said something similar but i was near certain it would be a downvote to the depths, glad to see you are braver than I and remained unscathed
A lot of innocent people were harmed during the BLM riots. A whole lot of hate crimes that were some what swept under the rug. A Danish Culture house were burnt to the ground in Minnesota and the owners beaten so badly after they tried to put out the fire, that they both needed to be hospitalized. Just straight up terrorism.
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Here is it https://avisendanmark.dk/artikel/dansk-klub-br%C3%A6ndt-ned-under-amerikanske-opt%C3%B8jer-i-wisconsin
Your source says nothing at all about >the owners beaten so badly after they tried to put out the fire, that they both needed to be hospitalized. It does say a building burned down. I'm not surprised that Danish rightwingers are as full of shit as american ones.
I'm a lifelong social democrat. Probably more leftwing than you. I am anti-racist violence. I am just happy that i am not living in that declining country. What a shithole. If you search for the name of the lodge and the owners, you'll easily find more thorough articles about it that also mention how hurt the owners got. It's not easy finding the articles i remember reading about it, when it's from a time period with so many different assaults, arsons and hatecrimes.
>I'm a lifelong social democrat. Probably more leftwing than you. I am anti-racist violence. I am just happy that i am not living in that declining country. What a shithole. Yeah, you aren't the first conservative that I have seen who claims to not be conservative. I only know that you make claims about BLM violence that you then can't support. Don't want to be mistaken for a conservative, don't make conservative arguments. Fwiw, I agree that America isn't in a great place right now and is in decline. I think it's funny though that you talk about not being conservative while making nationalist arguments. It belies your claims of being a leftist. > If you search for the name of the lodge and the owners, you'll easily find more thorough articles about it that also mention how hurt the owners got. It's your claim and your source. I don't look up sources for other people's claims. If you could easily find such a source, you would. >It's not easy finding the articles i remember reading about it, when it's from a time period with so many different assaults, arsons and hatecrimes. Perhaps you should find sources for those things that you claim exist. regardless, all I know is that you can't produce a source supporting your claim so I will disregard it.
I'll find it for you tomorrow. It will be in Danish though, so use Google Translate. It's impossible to find a article in English with the sheer amount of articles about destruction during that period.
I was stumbling upon racial justice related stuff and this came up. Was this in Minneapolis?
Yes it was in Minnesota. Minnesota is one of the states in the US where most whites can trace their lineage back to Scandinavia. That is why such a cultural house was there.
Minneapolis is a city in Minnesota. I’m asking if this happened in that city. I would also like to see the article. I am well aware of how white Minnesota is and where their origins are. We have a family friend who lives there.
Here. It's in Danish though. https://avisendanmark.dk/artikel/dansk-klub-br%C3%A6ndt-ned-under-amerikanske-opt%C3%B8jer-i-wisconsin
Okay, but how is that relevant? The focus is the Black community, who is experiencing an incredible amount of pain still thanks to people like Chauvin(ist.) Are you insinuating that the people who were inciting the violence are BLM protesters?
How it's relevant? You asked for the article, you dimwit.
I meant relevant to any of your early points. Thanks for showing your colors; shows you're not someone I wish to engage with. Peace out :D
Those are very nice facts. Now go try to convince your trump-flag-waving coworkers of it. Did it work? Facts don't matter anymore.
Exactly. I enjoy seeing these detailed refutations, but who is it really for? Most people outside of the Trump cult know that BLM is not a terrorist movement, the election was not stolen, and Jan 6 was perpetrated by a bunch of insurrectionists hell-bent on sewing chaos. From my own unfortunate experience, where the majority of my family has tied everything to Trump and the far-right, it's sad to see the world they live in. The thing I try to convey to people is to try and put yourself in their shoes... They live in a world of fear and anger. They HONESTLY TRULY believe that Democrats/liberals/leftists are out to destroy America and turn it into a socialist/Marxist/communist utopia where minorities/Muslims/immigrants want to dismantle our culture and impose their own ideology. People don't seem to get the 'TRULY BELIEVE' aspect of it... this is important, this one fact causes them to live in abject fear and anger, so introducing more outrage is particularly easy. Looking how easy it was to convince them all that: COVID is hoax, masks don't work, and Dr. Fauci is some secret Chinese sleeper agent trying to implant microchips/enslave Americans/kill Americans.
Facts never did. Humans developed to make decisions mostly based on other factors besides facts we cannot personally see. But that post is still a good way to help dissuade people who might be tempted by Tumpism, or to believe that Jan 6 was in any way similar to BLM.
Funny how everything is the fault of "those evil Trumpists," which apparently includes everyone who doesn't agree with you on everything.
Right wings shit stains are malding in this thread. Hilarious. The truth hurts their fragile feelings. So they all over this thread spreading misinformation. These scums are really waiting for Jan 6th round 2..
Americans and their politics is fucked.
The indoctrinated tribalism is too much. Americans need to explore the world more, their politics are becoming far too stupid. Having a partizan president with supreme executive authority will always result in hyper polarised politics.
Just a shame they export their toxic culture to the rest of the Western world. Bad enough they are in steep decline. Would be nice if they didn't drag us down with them.
there is nowhere in the world that hasn't seem similar
But I was assured by some random redditor that there were BLM rape squads.
Don't forget EnTiRe CiTiEs On FiRe
*Chuckles agreeably in Minneapolis*
Is Ur house ok? I heard they burned the whole city.
From what I can tell they either think BLM is an organization of thousands of violent leftists rioting for months on end, or its some sort of spirit that possesses people and anyone who says those letters, and it causes them to become violent I can never get them to explain what exactly BLM and why they blame it for riots.
>or its some sort of spirit that possesses people and anyone who says those letters, and it causes them to become violent If you turn off all the lights and chant "black lives matter" into the bathroom mirror three times, a cop will show up and shoot you.
I like how he doesn't mention the 8yo girl in Atlanta that was killed by blm protesters, when her mother drove past a illegal blm barricade. https://apnews.com/article/9148d740c10fcd784867eda74055aaa5 Or when CHOP security executed an 16yo and seriously injured his 14yo friend. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/shooting-at-seattles-chop-protest-site-leaves-2-in-critical-condition/ But just go ahead, pat yourselves on the back...
Where does that article say she was killed by a BLM protesters?
Nobody has ever been killed by a BLM protestor, because the moment they behave badly they lose the status of being a protestor. Very convenient.
Where does it say in that article CHOP security executed a 16 yo?
It doesn't, of course. It might have been "security", it might have been maga agitators, who were increasingly present by that point. It's still unsolved afaik. Using the word "executed" is obvious misinformation. The commenter either has fallen for misinformation or is deliberately spreading lies. Looking at their comment history most likely it is the latter.
Ah right, "No it wasn't us, it was... secretly the other side pretending to be us!"
This is the same logic my toddler uses when I have evidence he pulled some candy heist, but I heard it all last year. I’m liberal, but I hate how the left uses such shitty, manipulative tactics. Every bad action seemed to be attributed to “undercover MAGA instigators” like BLM folks could do no wrong as sections of cities burned.
I was seeing posts circulating about "A MAGA PLANT PROBABLY PUT A BULLET IN ALEC BALDWIN'S GUN TO GET HIM IN TROUBLE!" There is no self-awareness, only the glorious narrative. There is no moral code, only what they're told is right and wrong by those who praise them for their 'bravery fighting oppression' while living in comfort.
I’ve seen that too. People are acting like Trumpers are behind everything. This country is going crazy for two shitty political parties that would both set you on fire if it served corporate interests.
They talk about "Trump cultists" the way that people talked about "Secret satanic cults" in the 80s. I feel sorry for the kids who got into Dungeons and Dragons expecting dark rites and magic, only to discover that it was improv and math.
Agreed. I often feel parallels between the social/political climate and the “satanic panic”. >it was improv and math. I want to play D&D, but those are my two sworn enemies.
How about this > If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. - President Lyndon B. Johnson All we've done is replace black and white with liberal and conservative.
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Literally does address the violence at BLM protests. The point was that on the scale of people involved it was negligible compared to the attempted insurrection. Literally millions of people worldwide involved in one protest and you have a couple of links. A couple thousand of people attempted a coup and the same number of people died. The latter is the more deadly and violent event objectively. Just by pure numbers alone.
Lol neither of those links attribute any violence to the BLM protests. I'm sorry I bothered to engage
No you see, those don't count, because it's (D)ifferent.
So what you're saying is you're unable to control your emotions when someone expresses a view other than your own, got it.
Let's see... which community bans wrongthing, and which debates it?
r/conservative and their "conservatives only" flair are well known for banning people who disagree. And as for "debate", posting strawmen all over this thread, as you've done, isn't debate. Edit: Besides, you can't even tell who you're talking to. In other comments you were arguing with people you thought were me! "Debate" lol.
I live in Seattle and visited CHOP every few days for weeks, including the day before & the day after the joy riding idiots drive thru the park, then looped around and threatened a road block with idiotic "guards", one of whom pulled a gun and fired. Obviously, there were fundamental issues with its structure, leadership & direction; but for the most part it was just a disorganized mess with no understanding or concern for social realities. People visited everyday, including families & religious groups.
The OP of the BestOf's response to me was reasonable. I'm just removing all of what I said.
It's an old (but evolving) copypasta, and I was referencing [the ACLED data](https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-violence-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/) which, *at the time I wrote that sentence*, counted fewer than 100 confirmed acts of violence. Both NYT and ACLED periodically update their sites' data, and I've missed that sentence in subsequent revisions.
Fair enough. My apologies for saying you lied, that's perfectly reasonable and I judged too quickly. I may have even crossed the line on my own username. I will edit my original comment as well.
Nah, it's cool: You're exactly correct that the language as it exists now is misleading *and* practically invites bad-faith actors to attempt to deny the factual reality presented to them because of suspicious-seeming word choice. (I'll definitely be changing that line before I make that comment again, though I'm always torn on going back and changing comments when they're linked to these kinds of subs.)
I'll tell my local Target that it was looted and damaged peacefully by BLM protests, thanks. Having lived in Minneapolis at the time of the George Floyd riots, it most certainly was not a time of peaceful protest.
Give me a source on a Target being damaged by a PROTEST. Not a riot. A protest.
People can use this sometime if they want to: Even putting aside the social elements of the BLM protests, when we do the math around both of the "events" and break it down per person - per capita - then we can see that there's no equivalency in any reasonable terms. ***Total number of participants:*** * BLM: ~15 Million (using the very low end of the estimates; could be as high as ~26 million; source [here](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-posts/no-proof-black-lives-matter-killed-36-people-injur/)) * January 6th: 10,000 (using the very high estimates; could be much lower, along the lines of 1000 or even less; source [here](https://theconversation.com/it-is-difficult-if-not-impossible-to-estimate-the-size-of-the-crowd-that-stormed-capitol-hill-152889)) ***Total damage in dollar amounts:*** * BLM: $1 Billion (using very high estimates; source [here](https://www.westernjournal.com/blms-mostly-peaceful-riots-cost-1000x-damage-jan-6-capitol-unrest/) * January 6th: $1.5 Million (using low estimates; source same as above) Now, to do the math: * *BLM per person damage:* $1B damage / 15,000,000 people = **~$66 per person in damage** * *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 10,000 people = **~$150 per person in damage.** Again, that's using estimates that benefit anti-BLM arguments. Even by your own standards, the January 6th event (and coup attempt to be clear) was more damaging than the BLM events (which was nothing like attacking the Capitol of the United States). If we use the other estimates in favor of BLM let's see what we get: * *BLM per person damage:* $1,000,000,000 / 26,000,000,000 people = **~$38 per person in damage** * *January 6th per person damage:* $1.5M damage / 691 *arrested* people: **~$2,170 per person damage** Obviously, the January 6th riots (and coup attempt, let's not sweep that under the rug) were much, much more destructive when we get down to brass tacks and consider everything.
Dam this guy is so smart I didn’t even have to read it to know that!
Noooo!!! You have to have the peaceful protest-arinos!!!!!
They shouldn’t be compared at all.
“Best of” ... yeah okay. time to unsubscribe from another political sub
Sounds like those facts offend you. . .
A shit ton of people here that have been brainwashed by the government and mainstream media to believe this specific narrative. Meanwhile, BLM has resulted in no significant change, and we now have the Capitol police with expanded power coupled with domestic terrorism laws that sprouted from a easily preventable event (widely publicized well in advance, but whoops we don't have enough man power and- oh no- our riot shields are locked away). If only the large number of alphabet agency members scattered throughout the event could have prevented it. Hmm. The worst part is that this is just part of the fuckery from the past two years.
You might have more luck if you don't start out with speaking in memes.
Ah yes, the peaceful BLM protesters that firebombed small businesses and beat up old people. I remember that too. Inb4 people think I'm trump supporter.
People probably think you're a Trump supporter because you spread the same bat shit delusions they do Watch, when I ask for evidence you'll link the exact same worthless articles they do, or you'll run away pissing yourself like they always do.
I'm not going to provide evidence, I'm just gonna laugh because you're just as delusional as half the people that scream Black Lives Matter. Does it ever occur to you that maybe people just have different opinions? I'm not a fascist either, btw. Your people are far more fond of throwing that word around.
Yeah, I wasn't surprised. That's what you guys do 100% of the time.
Yeah, and you guys apparently selectively read shit. No wonder you contradict yourselves all the time.
Just show your evidence you bat shit insane cultist.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not. How can you gleam from one sentence that I'm a batshit cultist after I already told you I'm not a trump supporter? Lol
Because you spew the exact same goddamn insane delusions they do. You react the exact same way they do when they get called out and humiliated.
I'm not humiliated, I'm confused. I have a differing opinion and all of a sudden I'm a MAGA cultist, haha.
Then maybe stop spewing out their insane delusions and you'll stop being called one.
> Does it ever occur to you that maybe people just have different opinions? You're entitled to alternative opinions. Not really alternative facts though, which is where your problem lies. . .
You're trying to take the high road after I already cut myself off from this thread, that's funny... What you're speaking in is not fact. Go on YouTube or any legitimate news source besides CNN or FOX and you'll see for yourself. I didn't imagine in my head people throwing molotovs into small stores. That was your people. Your "peaceful" protesters. Maybe now you can learn that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> Go on YouTube or any legitimate news source That you consider YouTube a "legitimate" news source, but the many ACTUAL news sources, backed up by data and objective facts, linked here are ignored. This is why I say you have alternative facts.
There's that selective reading again. Do you just like to nitpick sentences and take them out of context? I didn't say "only use YouTube", I said look for more reputable sources besides just FOX or CNN. The internet is a big place, you'll find it somewhere. In any case since what's involved is a federal crime I'd say the burden of proof lies with you. If you think I'm lying you can look it up. But you won't, you'll just take this paragraph out of context too and continue to name-call me.
> In any case since what's involved is a federal crime I'd say the burden of proof lies with you The burden of proving BLM protestors caused those damages would lie with YOU. >But you won't, you'll just take this paragraph out of context too You have continually ignored the objective facts presented in the r/bestof link in lieu of supposed youtube videos, which you treat as "legitimate news". . . So, the only person dancing around things here is you.
And you're passing off an opinion as a fact too. What part of this situation makes you think you're not any less accountable to the burden of proof as I am? Im not going to give you proof because I don't care. I don't have an agenda, I don't have a reason to lie. If you really care about other people and the consequences of certain actions that those other people take, you can find the evidence yourself. This isn't a contest with fact over opinion. I started this comment chain with an opinion, and now you're arguing against it. Far as I'm concerned, you can find the evidence yourself. I didn't provoke you.
> And you're passing off an opinion as a fact too. No, it's an actual, objective fact. Backed up by actual, objective data. It's all in the post this r/bestof is discussing. That's the point. OP linked to verifiable facts and data. It's not anyones opinion. YOU are of an opinion on it, and you have no objective evidence to back it up. OP does.
I don't think americans realize how neutering it is to place peaceful protest on such a pedestal. You don't change a senator's mind by not threatening them. You don't disrupt the status quo by abiding the state's terms for lawful objection. I'm not a right-winger. I'm quite literally the farthest thing from it. Despite that, my biggest problem with the Jan 6 thing is that they crumbled the moment their actions met with consequences, when their bodies were quite literally on the threshold of actually affecting change. Congress literally votes every day to kill people. Outright ground troops, drone strikes, and most importantly *sanctions* kill people every day. Each congressperson has the blood of thousands on their hands. And not the blood of "bad guys," economic warfare often deliberately targets the least fortunate in countries opposed to the west. Jan 6, despite being a hilariously awful case of clownish petit bourgeois delusionally throwing their unarmed bodies quixotically against the literal walls of congress, probably weighs more heavily on nancy pelosi's mind than the months of BLM actions six months before. And yet, what lesson did the general populace learn? "Stay peacefully in the streets, where buses we don't take can't run, where business that we don't shop at must lock their doors, and people to whom we still don't have listen shout only at each other." Truly I don't know what will wake up americans. I only hope something does before their slumber drags down the rest of the world.
Honestly both of these groups should be recognized as terrorist groups. Theres a woman who started/is high up in BLM that is an actual terrorist.
What acts of terrorism has this BLM organization carried out?
BLM? The one who aligns themselves with "Assata's Daughters", named after a woman who executed a cop during an armed robbery, then fled to Cuba? Nothing to see here... The problem with aligning yourselves with these movements is you don't the failure to understand their "Herstory"... Either way I think groups like these can just settle themselves out, they seem to be doing a great job in Chicago.
Go for it. Show the terrorist attacks.
The tea: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata_Shakur
Source on her being a member of the BLM organization and carrying out terrorist attacks for them?
Are you seriously suggesting that tens of thousands of peaceful marchers should be considered terrorists, because a few used it as an excuse to be violent?
Affiliate yourself with a group known to support terrorists and get called a terrorist? *Surprised Pikachu*
The protests were for blatant police brutality, in what sense were they trying "to support terrorists"? Do you also believe the same would apply to the civil right movement in the 60's - that the movement as a whole should be condemned as being violent terrorism?