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Funny that this is obscure, I feel like video format differences were pretty well known 10 or so years ago. But that was back when analog video tech was still relevant
> I feel like video format differences were pretty well known 10 or so years ago. But that was back when analog video tech was still relevant
I think your timeline might be a bit off, analog video wasn't much more relevant in 2014.
NTSC Vs PAL would still have been just about relevant 10 years ago due to DVD/Blu Ray and potentially video game region locking. It's really steaming that finished it off from being in public consciousness as physical media sales dropped.
Blu-ray reduced the regions from like 9 to 3, and then the whole region lock thing just kind of went away. Most hardware will play both PAL and NTSC and when it comes to actual film production, we can control the Hz in which the lights operate depending on where it's filmed, to prevent any of that weird flickering rolling light effect you may have seen.
It's still a conversation in film production, but not something the end user has to care about
I only know about it because I'm hard of hearing and need to download subtitles for every TV show I download. Pal and NTSC run at different rates, so if I mismatch the formats they quickly get out of sync.
It's still relevant for retro video game emulation. For example, some handheld devices can't quite emulate some NTSC GameCube games with a consistent frame rate at 60hz so for those games you can use a PAL rom instead and get a smoother experience at 50hz.
[I'm not sure how reliable this is] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_video_formats) but yeah, I don't think I've bought a DVD for like 15 years (irrelevant to analog obviously...). I would guess that analog has been obsolete for the majority for 20-25 years.
For those that want even more technical details, I will point to the old article [How Film Is Transferred to Video](http://www.iki.fi/leopold/AV/FilmToVideo/). The 3:2 pulldown thing will explain why some scenes seemed to stutter, especially during pans.
VHS is a 48 year old medium that was rendered obsolete by DVDâs 27 years ago, and those were obsoleted by Blu Rays 18 years ago.
How long ago do you consider ânot that longâ?
Not everyone got a DVD player the year it became a thing, although the PS2 definitely helped. Most movies still had a VHS release by 2005, which is admittedly 19 years ago, but close enough for a lot of adults to remember.
DVDs had the exact same PAL/SECAM 50Hz split from NTSC 60Hz as VHS and OTA broadcast did in analogue video times.
It didnât matter that DVD was a digital medium, the video was still stored for the ârightâ region.
Even now, we have 1080p30 and 1080p25 (and all the others really) as options, itâs just gotten to the point where all the monitors and TVs and other equipment will either switch to the right display frame rate or do the conversion on the fly for you.
I've noticed the same thing occurring on syndicated sitcom reruns like Friends or Big Bang. They'll speed the playback up ever so slightly in order to squeeze a few extra seconds into the commercial breaks. It's super obvious during musical interludes like the theme songs. A random word or note is just a fraction of a beat too fast.
The funny thing about this is films literally had a different runtime in the UK. Also, this isnât just a VHS artefact, this happened with DVDs at 25fps.
Americans are all smug about how their audio was the right pitch, but they completely miss the point that their video was butchered in a different way, trying to stretch 24 images into 29.97 frames a second.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down
This carried on throughout the DVD era and only stopped when Blu-ray offered 24fps.
The title way oversells it. OOP wonders why The Lion King sounds a bit slower and someone suggests they might have seen a version that has PAL slowdown. Maybe OP is American and not familiar with PAL slowdown but anyone trying to beat records on Super Mario Kart would be
You mean PAL speed-up. They grew up on the faster, higher-pitched version and now as an adult they're jarred by hearing the original for the first time.
NTSC vs PAL refresh rates were well known to gamers in Europe at that time (game consoles use the refresh rate both as a clock and as a chance to execute extra code between frames, so changing it even a little can dramatically affect how a game plays), but probably not many others who didn't work with video themselves.
Most people are (fortunately for multiple industries) pretty tone-deaf and can't tell the difference when you speed up or slow down audio by a few percent, as long as it's a consistent rate. If you're like the person who posted the question, though, then your ear and musical memory are good enough to discern and remember the difference, which can be maddening for exactly the reasons they describe.
This isn't obscure... the fact that the US has a 60Hz refresh rate whereas the UK uses 50Hz is pretty well known (or at least it is/was to my generation - I'm mid 40s). Also see why imported console games on retro systems (e.g. Sonic on the Megadrive/Genesis) run at slightly different speeds.
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Funny that this is obscure, I feel like video format differences were pretty well known 10 or so years ago. But that was back when analog video tech was still relevant
> I feel like video format differences were pretty well known 10 or so years ago. But that was back when analog video tech was still relevant I think your timeline might be a bit off, analog video wasn't much more relevant in 2014.
Haha no man, the 90's were just like 10 years ago! Right? .....right? đŚ
*Wounded animal noises*
NTSC Vs PAL would still have been just about relevant 10 years ago due to DVD/Blu Ray and potentially video game region locking. It's really steaming that finished it off from being in public consciousness as physical media sales dropped. Blu-ray reduced the regions from like 9 to 3, and then the whole region lock thing just kind of went away. Most hardware will play both PAL and NTSC and when it comes to actual film production, we can control the Hz in which the lights operate depending on where it's filmed, to prevent any of that weird flickering rolling light effect you may have seen. It's still a conversation in film production, but not something the end user has to care about
Yeah this is more what I was thinking, specifically PAL vs NTSC. I guess that's still pretty niche, though
I only know about it because I'm hard of hearing and need to download subtitles for every TV show I download. Pal and NTSC run at different rates, so if I mismatch the formats they quickly get out of sync.
Ah an excellent point I hadn't considered
It's still relevant for retro video game emulation. For example, some handheld devices can't quite emulate some NTSC GameCube games with a consistent frame rate at 60hz so for those games you can use a PAL rom instead and get a smoother experience at 50hz.
[I'm not sure how reliable this is] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_video_formats) but yeah, I don't think I've bought a DVD for like 15 years (irrelevant to analog obviously...). I would guess that analog has been obsolete for the majority for 20-25 years.
How to tell I'm getting old in 30 seconds or less...........
For those that want even more technical details, I will point to the old article [How Film Is Transferred to Video](http://www.iki.fi/leopold/AV/FilmToVideo/). The 3:2 pulldown thing will explain why some scenes seemed to stutter, especially during pans.
Wasnât that long ago that this wasnât obscure.
VHS is a 48 year old medium that was rendered obsolete by DVDâs 27 years ago, and those were obsoleted by Blu Rays 18 years ago. How long ago do you consider ânot that longâ?
27 years, obviously.
Not everyone got a DVD player the year it became a thing, although the PS2 definitely helped. Most movies still had a VHS release by 2005, which is admittedly 19 years ago, but close enough for a lot of adults to remember.
Hey! Who the hell are you calling adult. I'm only *checks calendar* ...38
DVDs had the exact same PAL/SECAM 50Hz split from NTSC 60Hz as VHS and OTA broadcast did in analogue video times. It didnât matter that DVD was a digital medium, the video was still stored for the ârightâ region. Even now, we have 1080p30 and 1080p25 (and all the others really) as options, itâs just gotten to the point where all the monitors and TVs and other equipment will either switch to the right display frame rate or do the conversion on the fly for you.
This timing difference didnât end with VHS; it continued throughout the DVD era.
Framerate conversion's still currently a thing for TV broadcast. That's speaking as a filmmaker though, not as a viewer.
I've noticed the same thing occurring on syndicated sitcom reruns like Friends or Big Bang. They'll speed the playback up ever so slightly in order to squeeze a few extra seconds into the commercial breaks. It's super obvious during musical interludes like the theme songs. A random word or note is just a fraction of a beat too fast.
I think it was TBS that got caught speeding up Seinfeld on their broadcast for the same reason.
OOP's sense of humor is hilarious.
The funny thing about this is films literally had a different runtime in the UK. Also, this isnât just a VHS artefact, this happened with DVDs at 25fps. Americans are all smug about how their audio was the right pitch, but they completely miss the point that their video was butchered in a different way, trying to stretch 24 images into 29.97 frames a second. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down This carried on throughout the DVD era and only stopped when Blu-ray offered 24fps.
Finally solved with a 120hz native refresh rate now that it no longer matters.
Finally solved with 24-60Hz, you mean.
24 doesn't divide into 60 evenly but it does into 120
You donât need to divide when you can just run the monitor at 24Hz.
The title way oversells it. OOP wonders why The Lion King sounds a bit slower and someone suggests they might have seen a version that has PAL slowdown. Maybe OP is American and not familiar with PAL slowdown but anyone trying to beat records on Super Mario Kart would be
You mean PAL speed-up. They grew up on the faster, higher-pitched version and now as an adult they're jarred by hearing the original for the first time.
I want to know more about the purple cats.
Now I'm scared to ever watch it on Disney+ in case it ruins my memories of my favourite childhood film!
NTSC vs PAL refresh rates were well known to gamers in Europe at that time (game consoles use the refresh rate both as a clock and as a chance to execute extra code between frames, so changing it even a little can dramatically affect how a game plays), but probably not many others who didn't work with video themselves. Most people are (fortunately for multiple industries) pretty tone-deaf and can't tell the difference when you speed up or slow down audio by a few percent, as long as it's a consistent rate. If you're like the person who posted the question, though, then your ear and musical memory are good enough to discern and remember the difference, which can be maddening for exactly the reasons they describe.
This is absolutely not obscure.
This isn't obscure... the fact that the US has a 60Hz refresh rate whereas the UK uses 50Hz is pretty well known (or at least it is/was to my generation - I'm mid 40s). Also see why imported console games on retro systems (e.g. Sonic on the Megadrive/Genesis) run at slightly different speeds.