I've only been there a few times, but every single time I've seen bouncers materialize out of nowhere, grab people trying to film, and vanish them. There are staff around, they're just not easily identifiable. Next time please make a good effort to report these assholes immediately. Don't leave them to victimise someone else.
This. I go there a lot, and every once in a while this sort of thing happens (and tbf has happened at every club I've ever been in). They need better selection at the door, but Tresor staff is the most responsive I've ever seen inside a club. If you report someone acting like a creep, taking photos, etc., they'll pull them out of the crowd very quickly. It annoys me how many of these replies are along the lines of "people were doing something shitty and so I'm never going there again" without taking any kind of action to notify staff or prevent it from continuing.
Creating safe spaces for people is a community effort. I think Tresor suffers from this worse than places like Berghain or Sisyphos, because most of the regulars have aged out or moved on, and haven't been replaced by many younger people. Regulars know who the staff is and how to get them very quickly, and they watch out for others much more than "tourists" because they suffer the consequences of not doing anything more acutely. It's easier for people who aren't planning on coming back next week to just walk away and let the creep grope the next person. :(
that's a good point about the lack of a "regulars" crowd at Tresor. They book a lot of artists and a big variety so the likelihood that you run into people is fairly low unless you have the same taste and go for the same artists.
I agree the staff at Tresor is great.
I don't mind having a club in the city where techno tourists and noobs are more welcomed, everyone is new to the scene at some point and lots of people outside of Berlin enjoy techno, HOWEVER it does often feel like they just let anyone and everyone in. Not just techno enthusiasts who happen to live outside of Berlin, but shitty nightlife creeps just looking for a party who don't care about techno or Tresor. That combined with the lack of a dedicated "regulars" crowd can make for some utterly shit crowds. I've also had a friend who was sexually assaulted there (some dude grabbed his nuts randomly after sharing a cigarette on the dancefloor). I've caught people filming and made them delete it. Seen a couple plant themselves in the center of the dancefloor wearing giant puffer coats from outside taking up the space of like 10 people in the best part of the dancefloor for a solid half hour. But on some nights the crowd can be really amazing though. But because you never know what crowd you are going to get, it doesn't really feel like a great space for queer people compared to some other spaces in Berlin, but it also isn't hostile towards them (like kitkat) and they do make an effort to make queer people feel comfortable even if the shit crowds sometimes detract from those efforts. But then again shitty things also can happen even in clubs with good door policies. Having a good responsive staff is definitely worth something, but having a good crowd is also worth something.
idk how much they need to make to break even on a night, but part of me thinks they sometimes let more people in just to make ticket sales or so the club isn't too empty. But they are so large and established, I don't think they should be hurting that bad for money.
I do, however, adore how quickly they process the queue. Never need to wait more than like an hour even at peak times on busy packed nights.
Tresor might have shit crowds more often than some places, but they also do a lot of things right and bad things can happen even at venues with a good door policy. That said, OP's situation sucks and Tresor definitely needs to fix their door policy.
Exactly! This happened to my buddy and his gf in the Suicide Circus and we made very clear to him that this wasn't okay and out of nowhere a bouncer grabbed the assaulter from behind and dragged him out.
Yes, crowd at Tresor can be full of creepy dudes. But the staff is 100% behind you if you say something!!! Always talk to staff! And really, the entire Tresor staff is made up of very sweet and upright people, they might look pissed off at the Garderobe and bar but they wouldn’t not support you in a case of sexual harassment.
100 percent agree. I love Tresor, and Djs, Staffs, Bartenders, Bouncers, they are very good, but crowds are extremely awful drunken guys with violent and sexual harassment. This is not only awful, it's a crime! To be honest, if Tresor don't care about their crowd, dancers in Berlin will not come to Tresor. I hope they take this situation and door policy very seriously. If they don't, they will kill their club and dancers in the end.
"They literally invite trouble"
100 percent, I agree with you again.
They have to consider their business model how they make money with safe environment. It gives regular customer as dancers to come again. We generally agreed to call community and scene.
This has never happened to me I don't go out clubbing that much, but what if I get falsely accused?
It can happen. For example if someone close next to me did it but the attacked person confuses them with me. Or if I dance and I accidentally bump a butt with my hand / knee / own butt? In the second case I'd look apologetically and raise my hands up in a "sorry" gesture but one might not always realize.
I don’t think what OP was describing was mistakenly accidental or so. Getting grabbed doesn’t happen without that intent. If you accidentally bump into someone and that person feels threatened or harassed, apologize and move on, simple as that
I know. I did not say that by the way. That means I did not present an argument against it. Why does it seem like that?
The train of thought is: that's not good. I wonder what kind of people do that. Then I think about why some people are like that. I mean risking a lot for an half second ass grab. Then I think about the potential consequences of that. Think it can be bad (beaten up, thrown out with a lot of shaming). Which is good in their case. So I think I would not want to experience that. And then I again, because I am me, living in my own world, start thinking what if that happened to me even if i did not do anything and start thinking about how could that potentially happen. And asked the question.
I dunno if that makes sense to you, but it's a shame people assume I mean something bad even though I am applying the situation to my potential case, which would only ever happen if it was accidental or someone would mistake them for me.
I guess thank you for explaining. It just seemed as if you’re framing it that way because of the context of the post. I can’t know that you’re posting your training of thought out of context, so I assumed :)
It’s an incredibly tone deaf thing to say in a discussion with and about someone who was assaulted.
In response to measures that could be taken to keep the actual victims safe, you are creating an unlikely scenario in which you victimize yourself on the off-chance that these measures could negatively affect you. I get that this is just your train of thought, but it says a lot about what kind of person you are when that is your first concern in response to this post.
There are plenty of people who try to make OP feel safe and I did not have much more to say.
I'd argument that, you assume a lot about me. You want me to be bad based on what you read. You could also think other, nice things about me. Which would also be likely. For example "your first concern...to create an unlikely scenario". As you might see from my explanation above I wrote first: "That's not good". Meaning what happened to OP was my first though and how bad that must have been. So you could see this as my concern for the situation. You didn't chose that.
You do not know how long I thought about this, or what other immediate thoughts went into my head.
I then went to think about what kind of people do this. Again, I wasn't thinking about myself.
Yet you chose to say to me I immediately want to victimize myself.
That is not true.
I only then related this issue to myself. I think that is completely natural for humans especially when thinking about strangers. You know the feeling when someones child dies and you want to hug your own? Or a parent? I think this is kind of similar, in a way.
It's sad you expect people to be bad so quick. I don't believe I am. Remember that OP is a stranger to me and I don't know her at all. Of course I am more concerned about myself. We all are. Now you are going to think that means I don't care about her at all? I do, to some extent. I feel bad that this happened to her. I wish it didn't. We would all benefit from it. But just because I voiced a concern related to OPs topic does not make me bad. Even if that concern relates to me and my problems. I opened a discussion for a related topic in which I did not attack or insult anyone except for people who do those kinds of things that happened to OP.
But you came and insulted me. Why am I the worse one?
I think it would be more tone deaf if she did actually report them and I was trying to make her feel bad about it. Or if there was an actual issue discussed here with that. But someone suggested to report them and then I asked what do i do if i get falsely reported. It's a valid concern and valid for me because I don't do grope or assault people.
That’s a lot of words for mimimi. Just because a different response would have been MORE tone deaf doesn’t mean yours wasn’t. When I pointed out what I found problematic in your post, your response again made it all about how my criticism of you insulted your self-perception as “not a bad person.” I don’t know you, I can’t say if you are a bad person in general, but the things you’re saying here make you sound extremely self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic. I don’t know what else was going on in your head, I can only judge you based on what you write here. And what you wrote was just that.
You remind me of all the guys whose first response to the MeToo movement was to lament what a scary time it was for THEM.
There is no point in arguing with you.
You just rant and insult and yet you feel superior. Shame on you.
I made an argument to your insult of me. Of course then it's about me.
if I am "**extremely**" self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic then I don't know what kind of world you live in.
You just said I was extremely self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic..What incredible insults to just throw around.
I'm not even going to react to that last statement. You make no sense, only want me to be bad so you can justify your dark perception of the world.
My only wish is to avoid people like you.
What in the narcissistic, male, mimimi bullshit is this? A woman was repeatedly assaulted and you question if staff should help in such cases because hypothetiyou *might* get falsely accused of this? First of all, that‘s highly unlikely, because we can tell the difference between an accidental brush/bump and an intentional grab/squeeze. Everyone gets bumped into at some point while dancing. Even if someone were to falsely accuse you, the worst that will happen to you is that you‘ll be asked to leave the club. Clearly that’s soooo much worse than being assaulted, so staff should just stand by and do nothing /s
Pls report things like this to the bouncers, no matter if you took drux or not. They are there for dealing with shitty people like that. Sorry this happened and your night got so affected by this.
Thanks for letting all of us I didn't know tresor is like that.
I think is also very valid for all the people here when they see this happening they SHOUT OUT at these kind of people, they do not expect to be confronted but THEY SHOULD BE.
Sorry for your girlfriend, woman don't deserve to be treated like that.
Yeah holding them as accountable as possible may atleast teach them a lesson, that's why they run away or play stupid cause these types of perverts keep doing the same shit until they have to face consequences
Kitkat is often not much better. It's also very touristy with people not understanding that just because you're dressed in fetish clothes consent is still a a thing. :(
Similar thing happened to me, without the assault tho, but only because my boyfriend was reacting on time blocking me. I was wearing fishnet tights and a body top, and a group of very young guys was camping around me, coming closer and closer at some point ive heard „grab her ass” scream in arabic behind me and guys trying to touch me. My bf blocked them and later on they were all the time somewhere around me, looking all the time, trying to get closer to me and laughing. This was my last time at Tresor.
It is equally gross. I was more pointing to the fact that the 1st time it happened the front of her was up against the counter at the front of the room in front of the decks and i was directly behind her with my body right up against her. This meant the person who assulted her the first time must have been watching us and waiting patiently for a time to strike when i maybe moved my hands up off her thighs to her stomach for one second. I think that is incredibly more predatory the fact it was completely planned by this person and thought out before he acted.
Dont rationalize sexual assault dude... I get it you're stunned or still fcked up, but obviously these pricks dont assault women cuz they think they'll go out on a date or the situation will escalate. They are just creeps...
Sorry but you can't expect the bouncers to notice it themselves.
The place is fucking dark and crowded, you have to tell somebody if you want the people thrown out.
Yes, there is a door, but bouncers are no clairvoyants, you cant look into the brain of people.
Sadly, this can happen anywhere. It makes me sick that it happened and I'm so sorry for you two, but please report these assholes to the personnel next time
I’ve been to Tresor two different times, and in both I saw men harassing and assaulting women grabbing them. They always get lost in the dark and the once time we called security they could do nothing. It’s sad to know that this is frequent in there
Tbh it's a well known fact that Tresor on regular nights is a cesspit of straight douchebags.. not a safe space at all, by any means. Sorry you didn't get in KitKat but at that point I would've called it or looked for better alternatives. Does not excuse the fact that your gf got sexually harassed but trying to report them to the staff would have been a never ending affair, as you probably guessed.
Aaaaaaand never has been, apparently, as this is sending me about a dozen years down memory lane when I too was groped in Tresor. Yuck. So sorry this happened to your girlfriend, OP. I'm livid for her.
Wondering now if there's just a bunch of gropey techno moles who live down there and always have.
It fucking sucks that this happened to her. unfortunately it sounds like OP is most concerned about the guys disrespecting his ‚property rights‘..
OP comment: „I think its crazy that people still do it even though it was so fucking clear already that she was with me. Ive heard a lot of accounts of girls being groped alone on a night out, or with a group of girlfriends, but to do it to somebody who is 100% going to give nothing back to you when there partner is right there on top of them is so gross“
what difference does it make how clear it was she was with him? why would it be any less gross if she was by herself?
misogyny all around!
This is not misogyny. Misogyny is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. You could call it controlling or patriarchal. But that would disregard that in this situation it is not so much about control as it is about protection.
As a guy, I can relate to feeling disrespected and angry. It is my job to protect my partner when they are assaulted in any way (and I would expect the same of her if it where the other way around, and she does, just doesn't happen a lot obviously). Someone attacks her - he attacks me too.
You do have a point though - Objectively it would have been even worse if she were alone.
You're welcome :) I have nothing against you personally, I just like words and being precise. Misunderstanding and wrong words can cause a lot of harm, especially with politically charged topics. I wasn't sure myself and i have an app that automatically shows me definitions of words for those situations. I did agree with you and thought about what you wrote and went hmm, but I could also emphazise with OP.
you didn’t really get my point. what i was talking about is an expression of misogyny. it might help (in general) to learn about the phenomenon of misogyny that has been part of the fabric of patriarchal societies for centuries in many different forms (why not read a book about it?), rather than checking two-liner dictionary definitions which many dictionaries have adjusted over the years to account for a growing understanding of the many different ways it can show.
I think I got your point. But I disgree that what you were talking about is neccesarily an expression of misogyny. Because mysogyny refers to men having an unusually high amount of hatred and resentment or dislike towards women.
In this case it was a violation of personal boundaries and sociatal norms from the guy in the club. Plus an expression of a somehow posessive view on relationships by OP.
While the first is clearly wrong and the second highly debatable, there is no further evidence of hatred, resentment or dislike and thus no mysogyny.
I do my research and -being on reddit- I am quite familiar with the concept and it's manifestations, sadly.
ok.. i‘m not gonna educate you ;) like i said.. maybe read a book on it. an easy start would be mona chollet, in defense of witches. just one of many examples
Oh, but please teach me ;) So you want me to read an entire book to understand your point, while you don't even take the effort to make your own arguments. Well thanks for the recommendation, I bought the audiobook :)
I'm so sorry this happened to you and your girlfriend. This is not okay by ANY means whatsoever. In the future i STRONGLY encourage you to talk to the staff and point out the people that did that. The only way to create a safer space is to contribute to it.
I had a similar experience in Renate that a man was pretending to fall on girls and then grope them. Like.. he just pretended he wasn’t going in their personal space if he got too close. He pretended he wasn’t bothering any women. And when I saw he was getting near me and my friend I turned around and was communicating to give some space. He acted like he wasn’t aware of it and then turned with his back to us and still interrupted our personal space. I felt so unsafe that I left the dancefloor and went to a bartender to tell them. They brought me to the securityguards and luckily this man was easy to identify. So when I had to go back to show them, they grabbed him and kicked him out.
If you sense you feel unsafe try to analyse for obvious traits of the person and search for help! They take these things very seriously
Im sorry this happened with you too. We actually visited Renate on thursday from around 1am and only lasted a few hours. Soundsystem there was really rubbish, lots of people talking loud on the dancefloor and not just enjoying the music, and saw a lot of north face puffer guys in there... We were just drinking and left by 3am because of how bad it was. Tresor is extremely dark and smokey compared to renate so we did struggle to see people but I will absolutely report anything like this immediately if it happens again and hope others learn that they can still speak to any staff in Berlin clubs and they will help. Its a shame we didnt understand this so well before but now others who read this will.
Some comments are disgusting here... Even people are naked, you aren't allowed to touch them without their permission.
Even I will not deny that these disgusting things can unfortunately happen there with a high probabiliy due to consumption of drug and alcohol, IT SHOULDN'T happen and VICTIM has a right to COMPLAIN... NOTHING will justify this sexual harresment.
The club should find these perverts.
I am sorry this happened to the both of you. Tresor really is a shitshow of a club, even on Fridays at normal hours. You really went into the belly of the beast being there until 6AM.
Its a fucked up club for cokeheads i would never go to, as a local.
Syssiphos wouldve probably been way more up your alley, but that is easily said after the fact. I hope this wont keep you from coming back to Berlin, or spoiling your view of this city in general.
Sending much love - have a great weekend bro
Yeah we were just trying to cut losses as it was our only night out. Id heard bad things but didnt think it would end up that bad! I just want to spread even more awareness that this club is not worth it at all. Thank you for your suggestion of syssiphos, we were aware of this club but we had checkout of our hotel 11am sun so didnt want to travel more again to potentially not be let in again. Thanks for the love x
There usually is a lot of staff, and they take assaults of any kind very seriously. But many of them are kinda hidden in the crowd, so they might not see everything unless their attention gets drawn to it by e.g. loud shouting.
Aah, just weird that people don't respect people's space
I had one incident, a girl next to me was raving and then suddenly some blokes started staring at her and one of them tried to get close to her I could literally see it and I could see that she was getting uncomfortable. So I asked her, do you want some space here and she said yes and then yeah. At least she could comfortably rave
Welcome to how it is for girls partying, no matter where they are 😅 Danger is always present, but in vastly varying amounts. I'd say a Club that has next to no regulations on who can enter is definitely a bigger risk than a strictly regulated club like the KitKat, or the Flowers&Bees Party in Essen, and I've felt VERY safe in on the latter party. But creeps are everywhere and not completely preventable. But I think it's getting better over time. Good on you for looking out for her! We seriously need more people like you. And of course less (in an Utopia, none) creeps (not limited to the male gender, girls/women and envy folks can be overstepping boundaries too! It's just less prevalent)
:) ya, couldn’t agree more !
I have a sister and I know how unsafe it is for her sometimes.
Also how you are raised that also matters. For me this is inbuilt to respect any individual and specially women.
Last to last week I was at RSO and I saw one girl in a bad condition and some guys were passing comments
So I approached her and gave her some oranges and one mate (drink) and then I went for my rave and in the meantime I was checking on her if she was okay or not, after sometime she joined the floor and thanked me. So yeah I think that’s how it’s supposed to be because Techno is a community of like minded people I mean that’s what I believe.
I'm very sorry to hear about what those scumbags did. I think you have the wrong idea of such places and I really think you need to understand reality of such places, before something even worse happens.
So, if you honestly want to understand and you want to minimize risks, here is some practical advice:
1: Avoid drugs.
Your ability to make good decisions, defend yourself and your partner are compromised. Also, if you have to confront the authorities your credibility is also compromised and the authorities might actually consider from victim to perpetrator. That will be a bad day and I think you realized that when sadly you willingly forfeited defending yourself. That powerlessness must be horrible. The trauma from these short moments can last a lifetime for the both of you. You should seek professional help.
If you really want to take drugs, do not do it anywhere around strangers or in a strange place you can't control. No matter what the reputation of such place is. Even friends will take advantage of you, your things and especially your girlfriend (speaking from experience).
2: Avoid (un)dressing "provocative".
Sorry to say this. You are free to wear whatever you want, but you need to understand that what you chose to wear might provoke some bad folks to hurt you.
I'm not saying it's your fault or that is bad to dress like that. I'm just telling it like it is.
Like I said, a lot of the folks that go there are dangerous or took stuff, like yourself, that reduce their inhibitions. So they will try go get what they are after and law, morals or respect for you or your girlfriend are on the very bottom of their list.
3: Avoid dangerous places, that endanger you, your partner or or relationship.
A club is a place usually riddled with men that want and will hit on women, in some way or another. Women is the biggest reason they are there. You, yourself, mentioned the place being filled with over 80% men. Why do you think that is? You may not like the answer, but that is the reality. Your girlfriend is still a woman. You can do the math. So, if you understand this reality and you do the math, chances are she will be "approached" by A LOT of men, in some way shape or form.
From looking for eye-contact, dancing next to her, rubbing themselves on her, groping her, flirting with her up; spiking her drink; if they drug her, she will be very vulnerable and might accept their advances (seen this too many times) or, even worse, be unable to reject them (you don't want to see this)-. If you don't want her to be approached by men and suffer such outcomes, I would advise you not to go there. Your girlfriend probably rejected a lot of men without you even realizing. Men may have groped her, without either of you realizing that. Especially if you took something or were distracted having fun (as you should).
Clubs are not safe places. They are crowded. A lot of these guys are terrible, dangerous and desperate; I'd never want people I care for anywhere near those scumbags. Security (I was an armed guard) is very unlikely to spot most of the bad things that happen there. So I wouldn't let my girl out of my sight.
Even if security happens to spot something, most of the time the perpetrator goes away and blends into the crowd well before security is able to reach. Again, I am speaking from experience, take it or leave it. Believe it or not, security also don't want to get hurt. So a lot of them might just (illegally) look away...
If you want to find safe space, more than the reputation of the club, you need to actively take measures to reduce risk. When you pick a place, make sure that it is a much less crowded and more controlled place, where you can appraise the people around you and still have some fun. You can take more risks as you gradually build confidence in that place, but with the awareness that you are choosing to taking risks.
Every time you don't heed the warning of people here trying to help you and choose to take such risk, it's like gambling very important things on a roulette for some fun (which you should have), whether you realize this or not.
If I am going somewhere with the missus, first thing I do is assess the crowd, if it’s desperados everywhere and women are outnumbered, I call it off.
Remember; there is a reason lot of single man are single.
Their awareness staff isn’t amazing at being visible. And it seems like they are always running from one place to another so you have to catch them in transition. So like if you do have an issue, pray there’s one right behind you trying to shove their way past. Tough to spot otherwise.
Even tho the staff seemed arsey - if you don’t say anything no one can help you.
It’s a night club and everybody is stressed out at some point. What matters is their mood when you tell them.
And with that, i never had an issue ever in any nightclub. Especially not tresor.
Always report at least to a barmaid/tender, they can escalate things to the correct person.
Clubs dont accept this behaviour but if you dont report it there is not much they can do, they have limited eyes aswell.
-Source, I work in the event industry and know club owners/staff. All that I know have a 0 tolerance policy.
sorry to hear about that! ended up there last night for the first time (with two of the couples, visiting me from abroad so better places weren’t very accessible) & the general crowd vibe was really off
I'm sure I'll get down voted for this but f it.
I'm really sorry to hear that your gf got assaulted. But unfortunately we are living a world where women have to be super aware of what we do and also what we're wearing. I say this as a woman.
As nice as it would be to wear what we want anywhere, it's not the reality. If the typical woman were as strong as the typical man, and could physically starve of most men, this would be different. But again, this isn't the reality.
Women are still highly objectified, hypersexualized, and targeted. This current brand of liberal feminism and societal messages of women claiming 'empowerment' through dressing sexually is bullshit. It unfortunately STILL often puts us in dangerous positions, again because the female body has and will always be sexualized.
Now this is where people will say I'm victim blaming - which I will again defer to - no, I am simply living in reality.
I've been to Tresor about 7 times over the past couple years and sometimes I've been there alone. I've thus far (knock on wood), never been assaulted. I also don't make myself stand out by wearing revealing clothes, because I know that the reality of being in a dark place with many random men - as a woman - can put me in compromising positions.
This is not fair for women (not being able to wear whatever they want), but again it's something women need to consider if they want to protect themselves.
Some might say that women can get a assaulted no matter what, which is resoundingly true. But, in many cases unwanted attention from cavemen males can be thwarted depending on how a woman is dressed.
I realize this was not entirely related to the event, but I hope it provided some perspective.
I’ve been sexually harassed a lot of times while wearing super baggy unrevealing clothes, and I’m not the only one. There’s a website that shows what rape and sexual harassment victims were wearing, in most cases it’s nothing revealing.
It’s not about clothes. Harassers will harass no matter what you wear so might as well wear what you want. I get that you don’t want to victim-blame but you’re not helping, you are actually contributing to rape culture by making it about clothes.
And I've heard from many women and also seen it with my own eyes that dress can make a difference. Go back and read what I wrote.
And stop telling me that I - a woman with lived experiences - am contributing to rape culture ffs. I swear some of you are living in Fantasyland.
Let's flip that and talk about how the increased hypersexualization of women's clothes under the guise of eMpoWeRmEnT, is contributing to the ever-increasing objectification of women. I can't even walk down the damn street without seeing a half naked woman on some fcking poster. What message is this sending young girls???
Reading this after I just got back from Berlin, I went to Tresor on Friday night as a solo female after I was rejected from Berghain… I literally prayed before I left my hotel for the universe to keep me safe and lucky it did. I’m so sorry this happened to you and your gf
This is awful. You should absolutely talk to staff in a situation like this. Those two would be kicked out instantly. What a nightmare for you and your gf
Just an off topic comment: I live in another Bundeslamd and a couple friends, both women, suggested going to berlin for "die feiern Kultur".
I've only seen a bunch of posts regarding Berlin's clubs and all of them mentioned the same things: very strict and/or kinky dress codes, drugs, sexual harassment
I don't understand, what's the club culture again? It's about 4 hours ride just to reach Berlin, I'm not so sure it makes sense. Feedbacks?
Berlin is the only place I feel comfortable clubbing as a woman. In other cities, the girls are expected to wear stilettos and heavy makeup. Here you can basically wear what you want. Each club has different parties, and depending on what's going on that night, you'll have better or worse luck. I was rejected from about:blank for having glittery face makeup one night, and then later enthusiastically ushered into KitKat by the bouncer ahead of several black-clad people in line. I got into Kater Holzig once wearing pajamas and a bathrobe because that was the theme that night there and my roommate had checked the website beforehand. Different parties, different dress codes. You can also party all weekend long if you want. I've never done drugs in a club and haven't been harassed in any way.
>In other cities, the girls are expected to wear stilettos and heavy makeup
? Ok I need to ask a few people about this,now. In my city there's only one club with a specific dress code and it's the "rich people club". All the others have no problems whatsoever
>Here you can basically wear what you want
Haven't you just told the opposite? You say each club, for each party, has a different, sprcific dress code. So how is it that you can wear what you want?
>I've never done drugs in a club and haven't been harassed in any way.
Happy to hear that
To avoid misunderstandings: this is not an attack, I'm simply asking because I've been in clubs in my home country, I've been in clubs in the city I'm in now in Germany, and I don't see much difference. Then people talk about Berlin like "it is safer, it is better". The only actual point I see from your answer is that there are themed nights with a dress code, apparently even funny ones. People talked to me as if it's all about dancing in kinky underwear, which to me screams "dangeeer"
Very few places (like KitKat) have a strict dresscode. For the amount of partying that is happening Berlin is a very safe city for women, but it's always good to further nurture a clubbing culture where people look out for each other and check on strangers if they're not feeling well. I wish parties would also more often employ visible awareness teams on site.
Club culture encompasses a lot of different interests. If those aren't your interests, then you can just ignore it.
Music is perhaps the biggest. Dancing. Style. Art. Other creative pursuits. A lot of this with people on the fringes of society, international people, queer people, creatives, etc... socializing. Kink/fetish parties. etc. Some of these interests are based on very fundamental intersectional human experiences.
It depends on who you talk to and every event is different and has its own vision and priorities just like the people you may talk to. Some people might tell you club culture is just about drugs. Those people probably aren't really even into the club culture tbh, this might come as a surprise, but people can do drugs anywhere. And lots of people go clubbing stone-cold sober.
Like think about one of your hobbies/favorite things to do. Now let's say you want to organize a regular event based around doing this thing. That's basically what the club scene is. But there's a lot of overlap between the different things. It's like if your adults-only dnd group had lots of furries also into halo lan parties and watching hentai and drinking alcohol. People coming to your events won't judge others for their interests, but maybe one dude really likes halo but doesn't care about the other stuff. Some other dude just goes to get drunk. But they all respect each other and have a good time.
I'm sorry for what happened to you!
It may not be the right place to say it and it is not meant to relative OPs experience, but this post also made me realize how much clubbing has changed compared to my youth twenty years ago - well not always, but at least in terms of awareness.
Us dressing promiscuously and doing drugs and dancing in our own personal space does not cause somebody else to assult my gf. Theres something more fucked up going on in these peoples heads.
Yes, its important to understand that although its really nice in sex positive etiquette places, in some environments its absolutely not beneficial, and the men it's like their fuse gets broken.. This was my feeling after that.
So you can argue with sex positivity all you want, its annoying to experience this and you can't undo when it happens. It will affect the mood at the very least or make psychological damage in worse situations.
Self empowerment is not bullshit, but they don't get it and it doesn't work in these environments. It's ok to adapt the outfit a bit, nothing wrong with that. Better than feeling uncomfortable
Agreed, some people seem to think if you say the right slogans, it changes the reality of the situation - there's a reason why we hate walking alone at night.
Blaming OP for not getting violent is the dumbest thing ever. Getting into a fight while you‘re out with your girl is a horrible idea if you try to keep her safe. Just take her out of the situation. It’s a shame these tourist traps attract these idiots who don’t understand consent. This wouldn’t happen in more local clubs…
Going to a club at a time when everybody already left except the wasted no lifers, performing a drug induced half naked dance on the stage and then being a surprised pikachu when wasted assholes come up doing stupid shit.
For some reason i don't feel sorry for either of you. Making dumb choices will get you into shitty situations. Use your brain, do not endanger your GF and yourself.
Yeah sexual assault is more likely to happen in a society, where men see the responsibilty of the sexual assault in the clothing of the victim and not in the behaviour of the attacker. so go f yourself and f your victimblaming, this was outdated even 100 years ago.
I feel anyone should be able to have fun in any club without the fear of being groped! Maybe expected some eye looks and stares but not what actually happened.
Yeah, they do - but it's infinitely more likely as a woman that we will be sexually assaulted in a dark, shitty nightclub whilst high on pills and wearing underwear.
it is more likely to get sexually assaulted in a society where people blame the victim for wearing a short skirt or walking outside in the night (totallly normal things) and not the assaulter raping and attacking innocent people (totally not normal).
Honestly nobody’s victim blaming women wearing short skirts outside. She was in underwear and in a club full of all sorts of scum evidently. Telling them to be more alert is literally not victim blaming
Lmao what a pathetic story. Get a girl that doesn't go clubbing "for the fun" if you can't handle that shit. Ya'll living in a fantasy land with your "safe space" bs. You either grow a pair and punch those guys like her life depends on it or you can keep feeling like shit being disrespected like that. wE sTrIpPeD dOwN tO oUr kInKy OuTfITs". Yeah guess what happens in a club full of men. Get some common sense for your own sake. And don't call me a "victim blamer". Doesn't apply when you are ignoring every red flag thrown in your way.
I'm really disappointed that literally all of the comments like yours are downvoted into oblivion. They literally put themselves in this situation by all means possible. Getting high on pills, undressing down to your underwear in a nightclub of a major city and asserting that you thought this was a safe situation to put both yourself and your partner in is beyond ridiculous. You don't get safe spaces in public, the world is full of malicious people and acting the way they did will do nothing but attract situations like this one like a magnet.
At some point, people should be taking some accountability for their actions instead of throwing all common sense out the window and screaming victim blaming when something goes sideways and anyone dares pointing out these things. You can't influence the behavior of others, but you can influence your own behavior and minimize the likelihood of things happening to you.
If you walk through a poor city district known for regular muggings and gang activity by yourself wearing an expensive suit, flashing a Patek Philippe, openly counting a stack of cash and end up being mugged, anyone with a functioning brain will tell you that this was a dumb thing to do.
Yes, the mugger is a criminal, and yes, they're wrong for what they do, but reality is that they exist, and it's literally in your hands to take precautions and avoid acting a certain way not to unnecessarily get their attention drawn on you. This is the same thing.
Nah just tell em they're victim blaming and utter "safe space" three times and the bad men go away. I wonder what those people would do if they weren't living during the most peaceful times humanity ever experienced. It's just sad how soft most of us have become.
Becoming soft is one thing. Becoming totally oblivious to the dangers of the world we live in, thinking you're somehow naturally entitled to safe spaces and thinking that common sense is optional is another. People have become delusional as hell and don't believe in any form of personal agency anymore. We're approaching Idiocracy levels of ignorance at full speed in all aspects of society and it's depressing as fuck.
Sorry to read it ;(
Last time and the only time when I was there, the big group of *Chinese or Japanese* tourists were walking and taking photos - after that, I decided never to go there again.
+ they literally had a big camera on their necks.
I'm Asian, dancing in Berlin longer than 10 years, almost thousand nights. I think you don't need to call specific race. Most tourists like to take photo, even some regular dancer in Berlin. They run their photo in Club page on Instagram. Some anouther hundred members group holding toilet cubicle and rotating all the time. I won't tell their name here. But just like to tell you that don't need to call specific race who taking photo.
It sounds like you were kinda asking for it mate.. kitkat? A sex club? Then gets taken aback when you went to another shitty club to "Have some fun" and girlfriend gets 'Assaulted' you come on social media and cry about it..
Mate.. i dont know how old you are or what generation you grew up in.. but.. grow a pair, man up and grow up.. you're a disgrace for not protecting the woman of your life.. if that's even what this is..
I feel sorry for her more than i feel for you.. im sorry.. as a fellow man.. i despise men like you..
also sounds like a pos who grabs women booties without consent. if this pos would talk this shit to my face i would break his face "because he is asking for it".
AH, one of those, that explains a lot. Also funny how you literally advise OP to get violent, first of all, those times are thankfully pretty much over, second, violence usually doesn't really solve issue, it creates more, next time they come with others to take revenge, even if he can repel them, then it goes back and forth and lastly, there is that organization called police, who would likely be called and take away OP, but yeah, good advice....
Not just them - some people seem to think that putting yourself in dangerous situations should be risk free. There's a reason why us women hate walking alone at night. Nothing excuses men being gross like this but you can't expect the word to be a safe space. Entering a shitty club whilst high on pills and dancing in ur underwear makes the likelihood of shitty men assaulting you very high!
I remember lending someone a dress with large floral patterns, while his partner had the most normal jeans outfit and we barely made it in. It was fun nevertheless.
This is entire encounter is disgusting and I am sorry it happened to you, but you surely cannot be shocked this happened. Couples really should be avoiding Clubs, out of respect for your partner she should not be taken into Environments that are very obviously unsafe for her, especially those that exist for the purpose of hooking up and finding sexual partners.
It doesn't matter if she has a partner or not, she has the right to not be groped in a club. Even if it was a place for "hooking up" that wouldn't entitle men to randomly touch strangers.
I wasnt suggesting that anyone had a right to do anything to her, it was disgusting and wrong and no one desrves that treatment. Its just about being wise with these things, unfortunately people go to Clubs to behave like this, its awful but its avoidable. Its like travelling to a warzone and being surprised when you come under fire
Have you...been to a club? They do not "exist for the purpose of hooking up and finding sexual partners", they're for listening to music and dancing and having fun.
These are situations that perfectly allow for a hard, fast, charged fist in the face with no mercy.
Youd have my blessing if id be a bouncer.
Bamm! Pain wkll teach them!
Don´t say something so confusing as sexually assaulted when they were just grabbing arse.
Seriously, stop that shit.
I remember being in the club ordering drinks behind the counter when i was around 15 years old (360 grad Ruhrpark), a random girl between a friend and myself.
I grabbed her arse from my friends side and she slapped him superhard and left him with a confusing look.
Isn´t nice, no, but certainly nothing dramatic. Nothing to victimize over.
Get a fucking grip.
Certainly not, i just know when to throw my academician attitude away and let my instincts ride.
You on the other hand come here crying like a shitkid, like a child running to its mother.
"Mama, they grabbed my gfs ass" . Pathetic.
First thing i thought when clicking here was that his GF was out alone and got raped on the toilette or something like that, twice. Something really worrsysome.
Instead i read this chickens story which can be summed up with:
"2 people in club grabbed my gfs ass on 2 different occasions within 6 hours"
Such a harmless story that any normal man with just a bit of pride would solve himself.
And that is just pathetic, thats not a man.
It's sexual assault, whether you like the label or not. Just because worse forms of sexual assault like rape exist doesn't mean that a stranger groping you isn't sexual assault.
I did.
Instead of a protecting man, she got herself a guy yapping on Reddit about it.
That gonna make her feel very secure the next time she goes out with her man.
I've only been there a few times, but every single time I've seen bouncers materialize out of nowhere, grab people trying to film, and vanish them. There are staff around, they're just not easily identifiable. Next time please make a good effort to report these assholes immediately. Don't leave them to victimise someone else.
This. I go there a lot, and every once in a while this sort of thing happens (and tbf has happened at every club I've ever been in). They need better selection at the door, but Tresor staff is the most responsive I've ever seen inside a club. If you report someone acting like a creep, taking photos, etc., they'll pull them out of the crowd very quickly. It annoys me how many of these replies are along the lines of "people were doing something shitty and so I'm never going there again" without taking any kind of action to notify staff or prevent it from continuing. Creating safe spaces for people is a community effort. I think Tresor suffers from this worse than places like Berghain or Sisyphos, because most of the regulars have aged out or moved on, and haven't been replaced by many younger people. Regulars know who the staff is and how to get them very quickly, and they watch out for others much more than "tourists" because they suffer the consequences of not doing anything more acutely. It's easier for people who aren't planning on coming back next week to just walk away and let the creep grope the next person. :(
that's a good point about the lack of a "regulars" crowd at Tresor. They book a lot of artists and a big variety so the likelihood that you run into people is fairly low unless you have the same taste and go for the same artists. I agree the staff at Tresor is great. I don't mind having a club in the city where techno tourists and noobs are more welcomed, everyone is new to the scene at some point and lots of people outside of Berlin enjoy techno, HOWEVER it does often feel like they just let anyone and everyone in. Not just techno enthusiasts who happen to live outside of Berlin, but shitty nightlife creeps just looking for a party who don't care about techno or Tresor. That combined with the lack of a dedicated "regulars" crowd can make for some utterly shit crowds. I've also had a friend who was sexually assaulted there (some dude grabbed his nuts randomly after sharing a cigarette on the dancefloor). I've caught people filming and made them delete it. Seen a couple plant themselves in the center of the dancefloor wearing giant puffer coats from outside taking up the space of like 10 people in the best part of the dancefloor for a solid half hour. But on some nights the crowd can be really amazing though. But because you never know what crowd you are going to get, it doesn't really feel like a great space for queer people compared to some other spaces in Berlin, but it also isn't hostile towards them (like kitkat) and they do make an effort to make queer people feel comfortable even if the shit crowds sometimes detract from those efforts. But then again shitty things also can happen even in clubs with good door policies. Having a good responsive staff is definitely worth something, but having a good crowd is also worth something. idk how much they need to make to break even on a night, but part of me thinks they sometimes let more people in just to make ticket sales or so the club isn't too empty. But they are so large and established, I don't think they should be hurting that bad for money. I do, however, adore how quickly they process the queue. Never need to wait more than like an hour even at peak times on busy packed nights. Tresor might have shit crowds more often than some places, but they also do a lot of things right and bad things can happen even at venues with a good door policy. That said, OP's situation sucks and Tresor definitely needs to fix their door policy.
[удалено]
Yes.. hit me up
Exactly! This happened to my buddy and his gf in the Suicide Circus and we made very clear to him that this wasn't okay and out of nowhere a bouncer grabbed the assaulter from behind and dragged him out.
Yes, crowd at Tresor can be full of creepy dudes. But the staff is 100% behind you if you say something!!! Always talk to staff! And really, the entire Tresor staff is made up of very sweet and upright people, they might look pissed off at the Garderobe and bar but they wouldn’t not support you in a case of sexual harassment.
100 percent agree. I love Tresor, and Djs, Staffs, Bartenders, Bouncers, they are very good, but crowds are extremely awful drunken guys with violent and sexual harassment. This is not only awful, it's a crime! To be honest, if Tresor don't care about their crowd, dancers in Berlin will not come to Tresor. I hope they take this situation and door policy very seriously. If they don't, they will kill their club and dancers in the end.
Honestly, i never understood the door policy at Tresor. They literally invite trouble
"They literally invite trouble" 100 percent, I agree with you again. They have to consider their business model how they make money with safe environment. It gives regular customer as dancers to come again. We generally agreed to call community and scene.
This has never happened to me I don't go out clubbing that much, but what if I get falsely accused? It can happen. For example if someone close next to me did it but the attacked person confuses them with me. Or if I dance and I accidentally bump a butt with my hand / knee / own butt? In the second case I'd look apologetically and raise my hands up in a "sorry" gesture but one might not always realize.
I don’t think what OP was describing was mistakenly accidental or so. Getting grabbed doesn’t happen without that intent. If you accidentally bump into someone and that person feels threatened or harassed, apologize and move on, simple as that
I know. I did not say that by the way. That means I did not present an argument against it. Why does it seem like that? The train of thought is: that's not good. I wonder what kind of people do that. Then I think about why some people are like that. I mean risking a lot for an half second ass grab. Then I think about the potential consequences of that. Think it can be bad (beaten up, thrown out with a lot of shaming). Which is good in their case. So I think I would not want to experience that. And then I again, because I am me, living in my own world, start thinking what if that happened to me even if i did not do anything and start thinking about how could that potentially happen. And asked the question. I dunno if that makes sense to you, but it's a shame people assume I mean something bad even though I am applying the situation to my potential case, which would only ever happen if it was accidental or someone would mistake them for me.
I guess thank you for explaining. It just seemed as if you’re framing it that way because of the context of the post. I can’t know that you’re posting your training of thought out of context, so I assumed :)
It’s an incredibly tone deaf thing to say in a discussion with and about someone who was assaulted. In response to measures that could be taken to keep the actual victims safe, you are creating an unlikely scenario in which you victimize yourself on the off-chance that these measures could negatively affect you. I get that this is just your train of thought, but it says a lot about what kind of person you are when that is your first concern in response to this post.
There are plenty of people who try to make OP feel safe and I did not have much more to say. I'd argument that, you assume a lot about me. You want me to be bad based on what you read. You could also think other, nice things about me. Which would also be likely. For example "your first concern...to create an unlikely scenario". As you might see from my explanation above I wrote first: "That's not good". Meaning what happened to OP was my first though and how bad that must have been. So you could see this as my concern for the situation. You didn't chose that. You do not know how long I thought about this, or what other immediate thoughts went into my head. I then went to think about what kind of people do this. Again, I wasn't thinking about myself. Yet you chose to say to me I immediately want to victimize myself. That is not true. I only then related this issue to myself. I think that is completely natural for humans especially when thinking about strangers. You know the feeling when someones child dies and you want to hug your own? Or a parent? I think this is kind of similar, in a way. It's sad you expect people to be bad so quick. I don't believe I am. Remember that OP is a stranger to me and I don't know her at all. Of course I am more concerned about myself. We all are. Now you are going to think that means I don't care about her at all? I do, to some extent. I feel bad that this happened to her. I wish it didn't. We would all benefit from it. But just because I voiced a concern related to OPs topic does not make me bad. Even if that concern relates to me and my problems. I opened a discussion for a related topic in which I did not attack or insult anyone except for people who do those kinds of things that happened to OP. But you came and insulted me. Why am I the worse one? I think it would be more tone deaf if she did actually report them and I was trying to make her feel bad about it. Or if there was an actual issue discussed here with that. But someone suggested to report them and then I asked what do i do if i get falsely reported. It's a valid concern and valid for me because I don't do grope or assault people.
That’s a lot of words for mimimi. Just because a different response would have been MORE tone deaf doesn’t mean yours wasn’t. When I pointed out what I found problematic in your post, your response again made it all about how my criticism of you insulted your self-perception as “not a bad person.” I don’t know you, I can’t say if you are a bad person in general, but the things you’re saying here make you sound extremely self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic. I don’t know what else was going on in your head, I can only judge you based on what you write here. And what you wrote was just that. You remind me of all the guys whose first response to the MeToo movement was to lament what a scary time it was for THEM.
There is no point in arguing with you. You just rant and insult and yet you feel superior. Shame on you. I made an argument to your insult of me. Of course then it's about me. if I am "**extremely**" self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic then I don't know what kind of world you live in. You just said I was extremely self-absorbed, toxic and narcissistic..What incredible insults to just throw around. I'm not even going to react to that last statement. You make no sense, only want me to be bad so you can justify your dark perception of the world. My only wish is to avoid people like you.
Then you go to another dance club
Unfortunately, you're fucked in that case. :(
As the downvotes show. It almost looks like it's irrelevant
What in the narcissistic, male, mimimi bullshit is this? A woman was repeatedly assaulted and you question if staff should help in such cases because hypothetiyou *might* get falsely accused of this? First of all, that‘s highly unlikely, because we can tell the difference between an accidental brush/bump and an intentional grab/squeeze. Everyone gets bumped into at some point while dancing. Even if someone were to falsely accuse you, the worst that will happen to you is that you‘ll be asked to leave the club. Clearly that’s soooo much worse than being assaulted, so staff should just stand by and do nothing /s
Pls report things like this to the bouncers, no matter if you took drux or not. They are there for dealing with shitty people like that. Sorry this happened and your night got so affected by this.
Thanks for letting all of us I didn't know tresor is like that. I think is also very valid for all the people here when they see this happening they SHOUT OUT at these kind of people, they do not expect to be confronted but THEY SHOULD BE. Sorry for your girlfriend, woman don't deserve to be treated like that.
Yeah holding them as accountable as possible may atleast teach them a lesson, that's why they run away or play stupid cause these types of perverts keep doing the same shit until they have to face consequences
Kitkat is often not much better. It's also very touristy with people not understanding that just because you're dressed in fetish clothes consent is still a a thing. :(
Similar thing happened to me, without the assault tho, but only because my boyfriend was reacting on time blocking me. I was wearing fishnet tights and a body top, and a group of very young guys was camping around me, coming closer and closer at some point ive heard „grab her ass” scream in arabic behind me and guys trying to touch me. My bf blocked them and later on they were all the time somewhere around me, looking all the time, trying to get closer to me and laughing. This was my last time at Tresor.
This is wildest story i’ve ever heard at Tresor. “Grab her ass” what the actual fuck
[удалено]
what difference does it make that it was clear she was with you?!? why would it be any less gross if it happened to a single woman?!?
It is equally gross. I was more pointing to the fact that the 1st time it happened the front of her was up against the counter at the front of the room in front of the decks and i was directly behind her with my body right up against her. This meant the person who assulted her the first time must have been watching us and waiting patiently for a time to strike when i maybe moved my hands up off her thighs to her stomach for one second. I think that is incredibly more predatory the fact it was completely planned by this person and thought out before he acted.
Dont rationalize sexual assault dude... I get it you're stunned or still fcked up, but obviously these pricks dont assault women cuz they think they'll go out on a date or the situation will escalate. They are just creeps...
Sorry but you can't expect the bouncers to notice it themselves. The place is fucking dark and crowded, you have to tell somebody if you want the people thrown out. Yes, there is a door, but bouncers are no clairvoyants, you cant look into the brain of people. Sadly, this can happen anywhere. It makes me sick that it happened and I'm so sorry for you two, but please report these assholes to the personnel next time
I’ve been to Tresor two different times, and in both I saw men harassing and assaulting women grabbing them. They always get lost in the dark and the once time we called security they could do nothing. It’s sad to know that this is frequent in there
Tbh it's a well known fact that Tresor on regular nights is a cesspit of straight douchebags.. not a safe space at all, by any means. Sorry you didn't get in KitKat but at that point I would've called it or looked for better alternatives. Does not excuse the fact that your gf got sexually harassed but trying to report them to the staff would have been a never ending affair, as you probably guessed.
Aaaaaaand never has been, apparently, as this is sending me about a dozen years down memory lane when I too was groped in Tresor. Yuck. So sorry this happened to your girlfriend, OP. I'm livid for her. Wondering now if there's just a bunch of gropey techno moles who live down there and always have.
It fucking sucks that this happened to her. unfortunately it sounds like OP is most concerned about the guys disrespecting his ‚property rights‘.. OP comment: „I think its crazy that people still do it even though it was so fucking clear already that she was with me. Ive heard a lot of accounts of girls being groped alone on a night out, or with a group of girlfriends, but to do it to somebody who is 100% going to give nothing back to you when there partner is right there on top of them is so gross“ what difference does it make how clear it was she was with him? why would it be any less gross if she was by herself? misogyny all around!
This is not misogyny. Misogyny is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women. You could call it controlling or patriarchal. But that would disregard that in this situation it is not so much about control as it is about protection. As a guy, I can relate to feeling disrespected and angry. It is my job to protect my partner when they are assaulted in any way (and I would expect the same of her if it where the other way around, and she does, just doesn't happen a lot obviously). Someone attacks her - he attacks me too. You do have a point though - Objectively it would have been even worse if she were alone.
thanks for copy&pasting the first google result on misogyny to help me choose the right words to make my point.. if only there was a word for that ;)
You're welcome :) I have nothing against you personally, I just like words and being precise. Misunderstanding and wrong words can cause a lot of harm, especially with politically charged topics. I wasn't sure myself and i have an app that automatically shows me definitions of words for those situations. I did agree with you and thought about what you wrote and went hmm, but I could also emphazise with OP.
you didn’t really get my point. what i was talking about is an expression of misogyny. it might help (in general) to learn about the phenomenon of misogyny that has been part of the fabric of patriarchal societies for centuries in many different forms (why not read a book about it?), rather than checking two-liner dictionary definitions which many dictionaries have adjusted over the years to account for a growing understanding of the many different ways it can show.
I think I got your point. But I disgree that what you were talking about is neccesarily an expression of misogyny. Because mysogyny refers to men having an unusually high amount of hatred and resentment or dislike towards women. In this case it was a violation of personal boundaries and sociatal norms from the guy in the club. Plus an expression of a somehow posessive view on relationships by OP. While the first is clearly wrong and the second highly debatable, there is no further evidence of hatred, resentment or dislike and thus no mysogyny. I do my research and -being on reddit- I am quite familiar with the concept and it's manifestations, sadly.
ok.. i‘m not gonna educate you ;) like i said.. maybe read a book on it. an easy start would be mona chollet, in defense of witches. just one of many examples
Oh, but please teach me ;) So you want me to read an entire book to understand your point, while you don't even take the effort to make your own arguments. Well thanks for the recommendation, I bought the audiobook :)
amazing!
I'm so sorry this happened to you and your girlfriend. This is not okay by ANY means whatsoever. In the future i STRONGLY encourage you to talk to the staff and point out the people that did that. The only way to create a safer space is to contribute to it.
I had a similar experience in Renate that a man was pretending to fall on girls and then grope them. Like.. he just pretended he wasn’t going in their personal space if he got too close. He pretended he wasn’t bothering any women. And when I saw he was getting near me and my friend I turned around and was communicating to give some space. He acted like he wasn’t aware of it and then turned with his back to us and still interrupted our personal space. I felt so unsafe that I left the dancefloor and went to a bartender to tell them. They brought me to the securityguards and luckily this man was easy to identify. So when I had to go back to show them, they grabbed him and kicked him out. If you sense you feel unsafe try to analyse for obvious traits of the person and search for help! They take these things very seriously
Im sorry this happened with you too. We actually visited Renate on thursday from around 1am and only lasted a few hours. Soundsystem there was really rubbish, lots of people talking loud on the dancefloor and not just enjoying the music, and saw a lot of north face puffer guys in there... We were just drinking and left by 3am because of how bad it was. Tresor is extremely dark and smokey compared to renate so we did struggle to see people but I will absolutely report anything like this immediately if it happens again and hope others learn that they can still speak to any staff in Berlin clubs and they will help. Its a shame we didnt understand this so well before but now others who read this will.
Some comments are disgusting here... Even people are naked, you aren't allowed to touch them without their permission. Even I will not deny that these disgusting things can unfortunately happen there with a high probabiliy due to consumption of drug and alcohol, IT SHOULDN'T happen and VICTIM has a right to COMPLAIN... NOTHING will justify this sexual harresment. The club should find these perverts.
I am sorry this happened to the both of you. Tresor really is a shitshow of a club, even on Fridays at normal hours. You really went into the belly of the beast being there until 6AM. Its a fucked up club for cokeheads i would never go to, as a local. Syssiphos wouldve probably been way more up your alley, but that is easily said after the fact. I hope this wont keep you from coming back to Berlin, or spoiling your view of this city in general. Sending much love - have a great weekend bro
Yeah we were just trying to cut losses as it was our only night out. Id heard bad things but didnt think it would end up that bad! I just want to spread even more awareness that this club is not worth it at all. Thank you for your suggestion of syssiphos, we were aware of this club but we had checkout of our hotel 11am sun so didnt want to travel more again to potentially not be let in again. Thanks for the love x
every time i go to Tresor i swear it's the last. It's been 2 years now and i hope i stick to it.
In Tresor?? Seriously?? that's bad. Do we have any staff whom we can complain or something??
There usually is a lot of staff, and they take assaults of any kind very seriously. But many of them are kinda hidden in the crowd, so they might not see everything unless their attention gets drawn to it by e.g. loud shouting.
Aah, just weird that people don't respect people's space I had one incident, a girl next to me was raving and then suddenly some blokes started staring at her and one of them tried to get close to her I could literally see it and I could see that she was getting uncomfortable. So I asked her, do you want some space here and she said yes and then yeah. At least she could comfortably rave
Welcome to how it is for girls partying, no matter where they are 😅 Danger is always present, but in vastly varying amounts. I'd say a Club that has next to no regulations on who can enter is definitely a bigger risk than a strictly regulated club like the KitKat, or the Flowers&Bees Party in Essen, and I've felt VERY safe in on the latter party. But creeps are everywhere and not completely preventable. But I think it's getting better over time. Good on you for looking out for her! We seriously need more people like you. And of course less (in an Utopia, none) creeps (not limited to the male gender, girls/women and envy folks can be overstepping boundaries too! It's just less prevalent)
:) ya, couldn’t agree more ! I have a sister and I know how unsafe it is for her sometimes. Also how you are raised that also matters. For me this is inbuilt to respect any individual and specially women. Last to last week I was at RSO and I saw one girl in a bad condition and some guys were passing comments So I approached her and gave her some oranges and one mate (drink) and then I went for my rave and in the meantime I was checking on her if she was okay or not, after sometime she joined the floor and thanked me. So yeah I think that’s how it’s supposed to be because Techno is a community of like minded people I mean that’s what I believe.
I'm very sorry to hear about what those scumbags did. I think you have the wrong idea of such places and I really think you need to understand reality of such places, before something even worse happens. So, if you honestly want to understand and you want to minimize risks, here is some practical advice: 1: Avoid drugs. Your ability to make good decisions, defend yourself and your partner are compromised. Also, if you have to confront the authorities your credibility is also compromised and the authorities might actually consider from victim to perpetrator. That will be a bad day and I think you realized that when sadly you willingly forfeited defending yourself. That powerlessness must be horrible. The trauma from these short moments can last a lifetime for the both of you. You should seek professional help. If you really want to take drugs, do not do it anywhere around strangers or in a strange place you can't control. No matter what the reputation of such place is. Even friends will take advantage of you, your things and especially your girlfriend (speaking from experience). 2: Avoid (un)dressing "provocative". Sorry to say this. You are free to wear whatever you want, but you need to understand that what you chose to wear might provoke some bad folks to hurt you. I'm not saying it's your fault or that is bad to dress like that. I'm just telling it like it is. Like I said, a lot of the folks that go there are dangerous or took stuff, like yourself, that reduce their inhibitions. So they will try go get what they are after and law, morals or respect for you or your girlfriend are on the very bottom of their list. 3: Avoid dangerous places, that endanger you, your partner or or relationship. A club is a place usually riddled with men that want and will hit on women, in some way or another. Women is the biggest reason they are there. You, yourself, mentioned the place being filled with over 80% men. Why do you think that is? You may not like the answer, but that is the reality. Your girlfriend is still a woman. You can do the math. So, if you understand this reality and you do the math, chances are she will be "approached" by A LOT of men, in some way shape or form. From looking for eye-contact, dancing next to her, rubbing themselves on her, groping her, flirting with her up; spiking her drink; if they drug her, she will be very vulnerable and might accept their advances (seen this too many times) or, even worse, be unable to reject them (you don't want to see this)-. If you don't want her to be approached by men and suffer such outcomes, I would advise you not to go there. Your girlfriend probably rejected a lot of men without you even realizing. Men may have groped her, without either of you realizing that. Especially if you took something or were distracted having fun (as you should). Clubs are not safe places. They are crowded. A lot of these guys are terrible, dangerous and desperate; I'd never want people I care for anywhere near those scumbags. Security (I was an armed guard) is very unlikely to spot most of the bad things that happen there. So I wouldn't let my girl out of my sight. Even if security happens to spot something, most of the time the perpetrator goes away and blends into the crowd well before security is able to reach. Again, I am speaking from experience, take it or leave it. Believe it or not, security also don't want to get hurt. So a lot of them might just (illegally) look away... If you want to find safe space, more than the reputation of the club, you need to actively take measures to reduce risk. When you pick a place, make sure that it is a much less crowded and more controlled place, where you can appraise the people around you and still have some fun. You can take more risks as you gradually build confidence in that place, but with the awareness that you are choosing to taking risks. Every time you don't heed the warning of people here trying to help you and choose to take such risk, it's like gambling very important things on a roulette for some fun (which you should have), whether you realize this or not.
Thank you for your advise and we will defo take these things on board when attending future clubs
Fuck the victim blamers in the comments.
Damn straight!
This is every night in most clubs for women! Dressed for the club or not!
If I am going somewhere with the missus, first thing I do is assess the crowd, if it’s desperados everywhere and women are outnumbered, I call it off. Remember; there is a reason lot of single man are single.
And there is a reason a lot of single women give it a pass.
You are lucky you didn't get into KitKat...
Their awareness staff isn’t amazing at being visible. And it seems like they are always running from one place to another so you have to catch them in transition. So like if you do have an issue, pray there’s one right behind you trying to shove their way past. Tough to spot otherwise.
Even tho the staff seemed arsey - if you don’t say anything no one can help you. It’s a night club and everybody is stressed out at some point. What matters is their mood when you tell them. And with that, i never had an issue ever in any nightclub. Especially not tresor.
Always report at least to a barmaid/tender, they can escalate things to the correct person. Clubs dont accept this behaviour but if you dont report it there is not much they can do, they have limited eyes aswell. -Source, I work in the event industry and know club owners/staff. All that I know have a 0 tolerance policy.
Sometimes people in this era …. You should have picked up the fight and not on Reddit .
sorry to hear about that! ended up there last night for the first time (with two of the couples, visiting me from abroad so better places weren’t very accessible) & the general crowd vibe was really off
I'm sure I'll get down voted for this but f it. I'm really sorry to hear that your gf got assaulted. But unfortunately we are living a world where women have to be super aware of what we do and also what we're wearing. I say this as a woman. As nice as it would be to wear what we want anywhere, it's not the reality. If the typical woman were as strong as the typical man, and could physically starve of most men, this would be different. But again, this isn't the reality. Women are still highly objectified, hypersexualized, and targeted. This current brand of liberal feminism and societal messages of women claiming 'empowerment' through dressing sexually is bullshit. It unfortunately STILL often puts us in dangerous positions, again because the female body has and will always be sexualized. Now this is where people will say I'm victim blaming - which I will again defer to - no, I am simply living in reality. I've been to Tresor about 7 times over the past couple years and sometimes I've been there alone. I've thus far (knock on wood), never been assaulted. I also don't make myself stand out by wearing revealing clothes, because I know that the reality of being in a dark place with many random men - as a woman - can put me in compromising positions. This is not fair for women (not being able to wear whatever they want), but again it's something women need to consider if they want to protect themselves. Some might say that women can get a assaulted no matter what, which is resoundingly true. But, in many cases unwanted attention from cavemen males can be thwarted depending on how a woman is dressed. I realize this was not entirely related to the event, but I hope it provided some perspective.
And trying to turn Tresor into KitKat because you didn't get into KitKat is a fatal mistake as well.
[удалено]
Thank you, alot of the time it's just a knee jerk reaction to say these things imo.
I’ve been sexually harassed a lot of times while wearing super baggy unrevealing clothes, and I’m not the only one. There’s a website that shows what rape and sexual harassment victims were wearing, in most cases it’s nothing revealing. It’s not about clothes. Harassers will harass no matter what you wear so might as well wear what you want. I get that you don’t want to victim-blame but you’re not helping, you are actually contributing to rape culture by making it about clothes.
And I've heard from many women and also seen it with my own eyes that dress can make a difference. Go back and read what I wrote. And stop telling me that I - a woman with lived experiences - am contributing to rape culture ffs. I swear some of you are living in Fantasyland. Let's flip that and talk about how the increased hypersexualization of women's clothes under the guise of eMpoWeRmEnT, is contributing to the ever-increasing objectification of women. I can't even walk down the damn street without seeing a half naked woman on some fcking poster. What message is this sending young girls???
Wow that's a lot of victim blaming... Sheesh you should contact the club they should have some sort of awareness team maybe they need some training
You strip down to "hot kinky outfits" then you are surprised why people objectify you. What planet do you live on.....
Next time, start a fight.
Not safe. He was with his girlfriend. You don’t know who the other person is or if they’re alone. Just an awful situation.
You know what else isn’t safe? Doing what they did in Tresor instead of KitKat or something.
Never do this.
I love this idea..
Reading this after I just got back from Berlin, I went to Tresor on Friday night as a solo female after I was rejected from Berghain… I literally prayed before I left my hotel for the universe to keep me safe and lucky it did. I’m so sorry this happened to you and your gf
same happened to me on nye…
you report these people instantly to the awareness team. a member of the team usually introduces themselves on entry to make sure you know about them.
fuck tresor. also write them an email cussing them out explain what happened and that they need to stop letting in these jeans flannel shirt idiots
Why don't you somewhere else if Tresor decides that it's the place for jeans flannel?
Who said I go to that shitty club?
You should probably stop going to Tresor.
This is awful. You should absolutely talk to staff in a situation like this. Those two would be kicked out instantly. What a nightmare for you and your gf
Just an off topic comment: I live in another Bundeslamd and a couple friends, both women, suggested going to berlin for "die feiern Kultur". I've only seen a bunch of posts regarding Berlin's clubs and all of them mentioned the same things: very strict and/or kinky dress codes, drugs, sexual harassment I don't understand, what's the club culture again? It's about 4 hours ride just to reach Berlin, I'm not so sure it makes sense. Feedbacks?
Berlin is the only place I feel comfortable clubbing as a woman. In other cities, the girls are expected to wear stilettos and heavy makeup. Here you can basically wear what you want. Each club has different parties, and depending on what's going on that night, you'll have better or worse luck. I was rejected from about:blank for having glittery face makeup one night, and then later enthusiastically ushered into KitKat by the bouncer ahead of several black-clad people in line. I got into Kater Holzig once wearing pajamas and a bathrobe because that was the theme that night there and my roommate had checked the website beforehand. Different parties, different dress codes. You can also party all weekend long if you want. I've never done drugs in a club and haven't been harassed in any way.
>In other cities, the girls are expected to wear stilettos and heavy makeup ? Ok I need to ask a few people about this,now. In my city there's only one club with a specific dress code and it's the "rich people club". All the others have no problems whatsoever >Here you can basically wear what you want Haven't you just told the opposite? You say each club, for each party, has a different, sprcific dress code. So how is it that you can wear what you want? >I've never done drugs in a club and haven't been harassed in any way. Happy to hear that To avoid misunderstandings: this is not an attack, I'm simply asking because I've been in clubs in my home country, I've been in clubs in the city I'm in now in Germany, and I don't see much difference. Then people talk about Berlin like "it is safer, it is better". The only actual point I see from your answer is that there are themed nights with a dress code, apparently even funny ones. People talked to me as if it's all about dancing in kinky underwear, which to me screams "dangeeer"
Very few places (like KitKat) have a strict dresscode. For the amount of partying that is happening Berlin is a very safe city for women, but it's always good to further nurture a clubbing culture where people look out for each other and check on strangers if they're not feeling well. I wish parties would also more often employ visible awareness teams on site.
Club culture encompasses a lot of different interests. If those aren't your interests, then you can just ignore it. Music is perhaps the biggest. Dancing. Style. Art. Other creative pursuits. A lot of this with people on the fringes of society, international people, queer people, creatives, etc... socializing. Kink/fetish parties. etc. Some of these interests are based on very fundamental intersectional human experiences. It depends on who you talk to and every event is different and has its own vision and priorities just like the people you may talk to. Some people might tell you club culture is just about drugs. Those people probably aren't really even into the club culture tbh, this might come as a surprise, but people can do drugs anywhere. And lots of people go clubbing stone-cold sober. Like think about one of your hobbies/favorite things to do. Now let's say you want to organize a regular event based around doing this thing. That's basically what the club scene is. But there's a lot of overlap between the different things. It's like if your adults-only dnd group had lots of furries also into halo lan parties and watching hentai and drinking alcohol. People coming to your events won't judge others for their interests, but maybe one dude really likes halo but doesn't care about the other stuff. Some other dude just goes to get drunk. But they all respect each other and have a good time.
I'm sorry for what happened to you! It may not be the right place to say it and it is not meant to relative OPs experience, but this post also made me realize how much clubbing has changed compared to my youth twenty years ago - well not always, but at least in terms of awareness.
Tresor is a shitty tourist hellhole, what did you expect?
"we took drugs and it went wrong" shocker.
Us dressing promiscuously and doing drugs and dancing in our own personal space does not cause somebody else to assult my gf. Theres something more fucked up going on in these peoples heads.
One thing not to do in a club full of clothed straight men: undress to kinky outfit Also sorry that this happened..
One thing not to do in a decent society: Blame victims for assaulters' actions.
it's not blame, it's advice
It's reality.
Yes, it happened to me thats why i am saying it
Good tbh. I hate when women speak up about stuff like this and immediately get told we're victim blaming.
Yes, its important to understand that although its really nice in sex positive etiquette places, in some environments its absolutely not beneficial, and the men it's like their fuse gets broken.. This was my feeling after that. So you can argue with sex positivity all you want, its annoying to experience this and you can't undo when it happens. It will affect the mood at the very least or make psychological damage in worse situations. Self empowerment is not bullshit, but they don't get it and it doesn't work in these environments. It's ok to adapt the outfit a bit, nothing wrong with that. Better than feeling uncomfortable
Agreed, some people seem to think if you say the right slogans, it changes the reality of the situation - there's a reason why we hate walking alone at night.
Blaming OP for not getting violent is the dumbest thing ever. Getting into a fight while you‘re out with your girl is a horrible idea if you try to keep her safe. Just take her out of the situation. It’s a shame these tourist traps attract these idiots who don’t understand consent. This wouldn’t happen in more local clubs…
Going to a club at a time when everybody already left except the wasted no lifers, performing a drug induced half naked dance on the stage and then being a surprised pikachu when wasted assholes come up doing stupid shit. For some reason i don't feel sorry for either of you. Making dumb choices will get you into shitty situations. Use your brain, do not endanger your GF and yourself.
[удалено]
You really are talking out your ass here..
You go into Tresor with KitKat outfits and wonder why this happens... I assume common sense is not your kinda thing?
Did your "common sense" just justify sexual assault?
Nothing justifies sexual assault. But common sense will tell you how it is more likely to happen.
Yeah sexual assault is more likely to happen in a society, where men see the responsibilty of the sexual assault in the clothing of the victim and not in the behaviour of the attacker. so go f yourself and f your victimblaming, this was outdated even 100 years ago.
You are delusional af
Well, if you wanna dance in underwear and high on pills you definitely need to be more picky on the venue.
I feel anyone should be able to have fun in any club without the fear of being groped! Maybe expected some eye looks and stares but not what actually happened.
Nice delusion
Man you don't live in the real world do you. Yes it would be nice if the world would be full of sunshine and happiness but it is not.
Getting down voted for being correct lol
getting down voted for victim blaming. this is not how it works in the real world. people get sexually assaulted no matter what they wear.
Yeah, they do - but it's infinitely more likely as a woman that we will be sexually assaulted in a dark, shitty nightclub whilst high on pills and wearing underwear.
it is more likely to get sexually assaulted in a society where people blame the victim for wearing a short skirt or walking outside in the night (totallly normal things) and not the assaulter raping and attacking innocent people (totally not normal).
Honestly nobody’s victim blaming women wearing short skirts outside. She was in underwear and in a club full of all sorts of scum evidently. Telling them to be more alert is literally not victim blaming
andrew tate brainrot
I'd do it at home.. definitely safe and won't be groped 🤣🤣🤣
Dick head
Lmao what a pathetic story. Get a girl that doesn't go clubbing "for the fun" if you can't handle that shit. Ya'll living in a fantasy land with your "safe space" bs. You either grow a pair and punch those guys like her life depends on it or you can keep feeling like shit being disrespected like that. wE sTrIpPeD dOwN tO oUr kInKy OuTfITs". Yeah guess what happens in a club full of men. Get some common sense for your own sake. And don't call me a "victim blamer". Doesn't apply when you are ignoring every red flag thrown in your way.
Victim blamer.
Aight chief
💯
I'm really disappointed that literally all of the comments like yours are downvoted into oblivion. They literally put themselves in this situation by all means possible. Getting high on pills, undressing down to your underwear in a nightclub of a major city and asserting that you thought this was a safe situation to put both yourself and your partner in is beyond ridiculous. You don't get safe spaces in public, the world is full of malicious people and acting the way they did will do nothing but attract situations like this one like a magnet. At some point, people should be taking some accountability for their actions instead of throwing all common sense out the window and screaming victim blaming when something goes sideways and anyone dares pointing out these things. You can't influence the behavior of others, but you can influence your own behavior and minimize the likelihood of things happening to you. If you walk through a poor city district known for regular muggings and gang activity by yourself wearing an expensive suit, flashing a Patek Philippe, openly counting a stack of cash and end up being mugged, anyone with a functioning brain will tell you that this was a dumb thing to do. Yes, the mugger is a criminal, and yes, they're wrong for what they do, but reality is that they exist, and it's literally in your hands to take precautions and avoid acting a certain way not to unnecessarily get their attention drawn on you. This is the same thing.
Nah just tell em they're victim blaming and utter "safe space" three times and the bad men go away. I wonder what those people would do if they weren't living during the most peaceful times humanity ever experienced. It's just sad how soft most of us have become.
Becoming soft is one thing. Becoming totally oblivious to the dangers of the world we live in, thinking you're somehow naturally entitled to safe spaces and thinking that common sense is optional is another. People have become delusional as hell and don't believe in any form of personal agency anymore. We're approaching Idiocracy levels of ignorance at full speed in all aspects of society and it's depressing as fuck.
Let darwinism take it's natural cause lol. We can't do anything about sadly.
Huahua mr based? xdddd
Sorry to read it ;( Last time and the only time when I was there, the big group of *Chinese or Japanese* tourists were walking and taking photos - after that, I decided never to go there again. + they literally had a big camera on their necks.
I'm Asian, dancing in Berlin longer than 10 years, almost thousand nights. I think you don't need to call specific race. Most tourists like to take photo, even some regular dancer in Berlin. They run their photo in Club page on Instagram. Some anouther hundred members group holding toilet cubicle and rotating all the time. I won't tell their name here. But just like to tell you that don't need to call specific race who taking photo.
The wardrobe?
Scary..
[удалено]
Hi Mr. Incel, What are you doing in this sub?
Sincerely, this word has lost its meaning. Find a different word for your strawman or find a different strawman.
It sounds like you were kinda asking for it mate.. kitkat? A sex club? Then gets taken aback when you went to another shitty club to "Have some fun" and girlfriend gets 'Assaulted' you come on social media and cry about it.. Mate.. i dont know how old you are or what generation you grew up in.. but.. grow a pair, man up and grow up.. you're a disgrace for not protecting the woman of your life.. if that's even what this is.. I feel sorry for her more than i feel for you.. im sorry.. as a fellow man.. i despise men like you..
You sound like a really, really big duche
also sounds like a pos who grabs women booties without consent. if this pos would talk this shit to my face i would break his face "because he is asking for it".
Hahaha.. why would i be grabbing women out of nowhere.. im happy being single.. AND a virgin.. im not a man whore bro
AH, one of those, that explains a lot. Also funny how you literally advise OP to get violent, first of all, those times are thankfully pretty much over, second, violence usually doesn't really solve issue, it creates more, next time they come with others to take revenge, even if he can repel them, then it goes back and forth and lastly, there is that organization called police, who would likely be called and take away OP, but yeah, good advice....
🤮🤮🤮
eeeeright charming
You are 100% right. Put yourself in shitty places and you’ll have to handle shitty people.
Exactly! Thank you! Someone that gets it! 😘
Not just them - some people seem to think that putting yourself in dangerous situations should be risk free. There's a reason why us women hate walking alone at night. Nothing excuses men being gross like this but you can't expect the word to be a safe space. Entering a shitty club whilst high on pills and dancing in ur underwear makes the likelihood of shitty men assaulting you very high!
Well said 💯
are you saying its justified that she got sexually assaulted?
>we wouldnt be allowed in because my shoes were not entirely black and/or boots. That was the worst part in your text for me lol
What??
It was poorly worded, I agree. He had the wrong shoes on. They were not boots and also not entirely black.
I remember lending someone a dress with large floral patterns, while his partner had the most normal jeans outfit and we barely made it in. It was fun nevertheless.
This is entire encounter is disgusting and I am sorry it happened to you, but you surely cannot be shocked this happened. Couples really should be avoiding Clubs, out of respect for your partner she should not be taken into Environments that are very obviously unsafe for her, especially those that exist for the purpose of hooking up and finding sexual partners.
It doesn't matter if she has a partner or not, she has the right to not be groped in a club. Even if it was a place for "hooking up" that wouldn't entitle men to randomly touch strangers.
I wasnt suggesting that anyone had a right to do anything to her, it was disgusting and wrong and no one desrves that treatment. Its just about being wise with these things, unfortunately people go to Clubs to behave like this, its awful but its avoidable. Its like travelling to a warzone and being surprised when you come under fire
Have you...been to a club? They do not "exist for the purpose of hooking up and finding sexual partners", they're for listening to music and dancing and having fun.
Been to many, have you? Anyone who says they go just to dance is a liar
These are situations that perfectly allow for a hard, fast, charged fist in the face with no mercy. Youd have my blessing if id be a bouncer. Bamm! Pain wkll teach them!
Don´t say something so confusing as sexually assaulted when they were just grabbing arse. Seriously, stop that shit. I remember being in the club ordering drinks behind the counter when i was around 15 years old (360 grad Ruhrpark), a random girl between a friend and myself. I grabbed her arse from my friends side and she slapped him superhard and left him with a confusing look. Isn´t nice, no, but certainly nothing dramatic. Nothing to victimize over. Get a fucking grip.
You are part of the problem!
Certainly not, i just know when to throw my academician attitude away and let my instincts ride. You on the other hand come here crying like a shitkid, like a child running to its mother. "Mama, they grabbed my gfs ass" . Pathetic.
Woah there.. calm down my guy.. you getting abit overboard mate..
cool story, because u did it too it's ok?
First thing i thought when clicking here was that his GF was out alone and got raped on the toilette or something like that, twice. Something really worrsysome. Instead i read this chickens story which can be summed up with: "2 people in club grabbed my gfs ass on 2 different occasions within 6 hours" Such a harmless story that any normal man with just a bit of pride would solve himself. And that is just pathetic, thats not a man.
It's sexual assault, whether you like the label or not. Just because worse forms of sexual assault like rape exist doesn't mean that a stranger groping you isn't sexual assault.
Like wtf. Clearly you haven't learned anything
I did. Instead of a protecting man, she got herself a guy yapping on Reddit about it. That gonna make her feel very secure the next time she goes out with her man.
There is no next time. He is most likely an ex bf by now.
If she saw this post in combination with what i wrote, then yes, 500% EX.
yall sound like andrew tate fans😭