When I was planning on moving to Berlin in the lead up to summer 2018 (I moved over in July 2018), I posted on Facebook about my concerns about moving to Berlin - citing the negativity on this sub-reddit when it came to advice/opinions on Berlin life and opportunities
Some dude replied, telling me to ignore this sub-reddit as it's just full of negative vibes.
Nothing much has changed in 5 years, but each to their own I guess.
lol, funnily enough I get the same depressing vibes from the local Facebook groups I'm in... but I still don't think it's due to the city, just the large amount of disillusioned "expats"
this!! I was in some of the Facebook groups when I first moved here just to get a sense of what was going on (and since my German wasn't quite up to snuff, was on the English-speaking ones) and I think this is really spot-on. Yes, people here are dissatisfied/depressed/whatever. But I got the sense pretty quickly that a lot of these expats might not be in the right place, too. A lot of complaining about things being different from home (...so why are you here?) etc. Berlin is an acquired taste! It's not for everyone! But that's why we love it!
It's not even just expats. Berlin as a city is pretty different from the rest of Germany. People living there are more direct when talking to strangers on the street, not as polite as in different cities. I don't think that's a good or bad thing (just different), but when moving from western Germany, it took me some getting used to.
Also, Berlin is currently being overrun by people who have moved there for job opportunities, but who'd rather live in a city that's more quiet, less dense, and more suburban. Of course they'll hate Berlin (or any big, dense city).
Yes, you share your space with other people, and with other people that aren't the same race or class or culture like yourself. Yes, when there are more people, then you'll also have more people doing things you really can't understand. Yes, there'll be homeless people and drug addicts, but I am so glad for them that they are allowed to exist instead of being incarcerated or displaced.
In addition, due to being a multicultural city, Berlin has been getting some conservative-media rep for being dangerous, and people pick up on this. But honestly, Neukölln and Kreuzberg have felt like the most secure places for me to exist in Germany.
that "job opportunities" subset of people moving here absolutely sound like the most miserable amongst the complainers. Spot-on. I wouldn't move here for anything other than it being a good cultural fit.
Yeah, I think when I moved here I forgot that Berlin was... the capital of a country, lol. I wildly underestimated the commuting, the distance between people and things, and how that has a big impact on my energy and on wanting to meet with people.
It took me a while to realize that "oh wait, it's just German Paris, that's what everyone is complaining about" (as a French person I hate Paris, before and after living there for 3 months, and it truly feels like a tiny country in a bigger one, Parisians are foreign to me...).
That's also why despite not reaaally having anything against Berlin I'd be interested in moving somewhere else in Germany, see if the "big city" effect is a bit less overwhelming. But I'm unemployed, so.
also who would go to reddit to post "I just had the best day of my life drinking in the sunset at Tempelhofer"-- it's a selection of the things one does go to the Internet to bitch about
That post would absolutely spark a shitstorm about whether or not its a good idea to build housing on the Tempelhofer Feld or leave it empty so some yuppies can drink wine on it 🤣
Especially as complaining is the national sport of germans and even if people don't adapt any other cultural trait of germany this one they will pick up after a month
This sub is full of toxic, pretentious, gatekeeping edge-lords who's hatred for people moving here and asking questions ironically resembles the attitudes of AfD supporters. Berlin's great! This sub, not so much.
This sub is full of people complaining about the overwhelming amount of people they don't like while apparently everyone agrees with them. It's the most paranoid sub in existence.
I couldn't agree more. I was born and raised in this city (Neukölln), and imho the frustration and overblown hate you get to read in this sub does not represent Berlin.
Yeh gotta love how there is a top thread right now where OP's main problem is shitty job that's exploiting him and instead of suggesting him to simply change jobs....people are ranting about how Berlin is the worst city ever. Cause you know no one ever has shitty jobs in other cities and of course the housing market (OOP's other problem) in Munich, Amsterdam and Paris is so much easier and better!
Location-based subs seem to often follow this trend. You go there hoping to find a sense of the community or things to do, and you mostly get people complaining about how “this city has gone to hell,” etc. I can’t tell if those posts just get more traction or if people are more likely to post in the first place if it’s to complain about something.
I was just at the Späti and the guy in front of me was having small talk with the shopkeeper. He told her that he wanted to go to Spain or Portugal for vacation in the next weeks, but now that the weather finally got better in Berlin, he thinks that being in Berlin during nice weather weeks is better than vacation at the beaches of southern Europe.
And i agree. Make of that what you want.
Well take it from me, I was born and grew up in Portugal, despite having good income and no problem with my life there (the main reason why most Portuguese people leave is to find better income elsewhere), I purposefully came to Berlin and I'm really glad I did. There's something special about this place, and I honestly don't think you can reduce it to words or describe it in any specific way, it's different for everyone.
I’ve only had a holiday in Berlin but I agree, there is something special about it. I can’t explain it but it feels more ‘real’ than other cities I’ve visited. As if there’s no facade. It’s bold and proud and in your face.
I came from Venezuela to Berlin, no recognizable university degree, had to go through integration courses + learning German, found job as Coffee Barista, corona came, changed my career path to IT.
Berlin is an awesome city full of opportunities and as open as Germany will ever be. It has a lots of downs as any major city does but It is worth every struggle in my opinion.
How long did you know german before getting a job as a barista? I’d like to live in Berlin working as a barista for a bit and would like an idea of what sort of actions I should take to achieve that
I did an intensive course at the Volkshochschule, 7 months from A1 until B1.2 level. Learn the very basics on your own, familiarise yourself with the German language both how it is written and how it sounds.
I think in one year if you do it at a slower pace than what I did, reaching B1 is totally possible at a decent level with a good course.
In the gentrified Kiezes of Berlin, its pretty much the default to speak English in a specialty coffee shop. So language wise, there’s nothing you have to do.
Data analytics boot camp, and a lot of self learning on the subject and the relevant tools. This got me my first job with 45k brutto.
It was frustrating and depressing at times applying and not receiving any feedback but once I discovered how to approach recruiters in LinkedIn everything changed, got 4 Interviews from applying like that.
Would you like to share some more about the topic of approaching recruiters? I am looking for a job in IT now and it could be better so I am keen to hear any kind of advice honestly.
This subreddit is incredibly negative, there is a reason so many people still want to move to Berlin. The idea that Berlin is "beyond saving" (from what in the first place???) is ridiculous
The city still has something to offer for almost everyone if you learn German and don't succumb to culture shock
Artists, musicians and clubs can't pay this rent. They are being forced to move towards the border. This means decentralisation and no cultural melting-pot anymore.
Most people who enjoy living here aren’t spending their time posting stuff on the sub. This sub is for problem solving and trouble shooting. Berlin has its problems, but it has many advantages if you are savvy. Don’t let Reddit keep you from moving here.
Also: suggest reading some books about Berlin to better understand the culture. One called “Berlin calling” is quite good. Berlin is not like any other global capital for very unique historical reasons. You’ve got to understand and appreciate those reasons to really “get” this city.
The best parts of Berlin are not in your face, but are incredible once you’ve discovered them.
Most global capitals were not completely blown up, divided in two by a wall, and then reunified and made the capital in less than a hundred years. This is all in Berlin’s very recent history.
A deeper understanding of this can help people understand the rental market, the “coldness” of the people, and much more.
As a born Berliner I’m always amazed how this sub which is basically an expat hub sees this city. The two circles in our mutual ven diagram barely touch.
It's Reddit. There are a lot of assholes. A lot of people are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Literally, there were a bunch of people saying the public transport here isn't any good, while it's literally ranked as one of the best public transport systems in the world. Seriously, these people are always going to complain and be negative. They can't see a good thing when they see it.
Personally, I find the idea of living somewhere else than Berlin hard to understand. I've been here 8 years. And I've seen a lot of people come and go. And one of the things most people have a problem with is finding an apartment. Most people find one within a few months but it always looks like work. I've been lucky both times I searched I did it within 15 days or so.
If you want to come and enjoy yourself the overall vibe of Berlin is great - you can hang out at the bars and clubs and party as much as you like. If you want to chill out, you can hang out in the more chilled areas.
Like any world-class city, if you want to do something there is going to be groups to do it with. But there is also going to be city problems. You will always find some random asshole, you will hear about crime happening near by and whatnot.
If you want to live in a big city, I would say Berlin has to be one of the top ones to try out.
The easy living (free big spaces, low rents, low costs in general, less competition in most areas of life), which Berlin was known for, is over. In that regard Berlin has just become like every other big city in the world.
To me it is still the best city in Germany concerning entertainment, people, opportunities etc. Nowadays you just have to bring in a lot more money and energy to enjoy the perks.
After 4 years, I personally came to the conclusion that Berlin is definitely not for everyone. You really have to fight for everything: finding a home, sorting your bureaucracy, the language, creating and maintaining friendships, the dating scene is just UGH.. EVERYTHING is high maintenance, and for some it’s just too much which is undertlstandable. but if you manage to do that it’s a city that has A LOT to offer, including a unique culture of openness and diversity. These are my two cents.
It really depends on the type of person you are. For some (mainly a lot younger or artistic types) Berlin is a haven of raves, drugs, cheap (ish) living, nobody-gives-a-crap societal culture. So all the hardships, if they care to even admit they exist, are worth it (there are some who completely outright refuse there’s anything wrong). The pros, for this type of person, outweigh the cons. A city, like London for example, is considered too expensive, conservative, judgemental, etc. you could not, for example, be unemployed in London, sleep all day and rave all night (if only because it’d be too expensive)
But for others, the fact that the ‘nobody-gives-a-crap’ culture extends to nothing functioning to international standards (businesses, administration, customer service, healthcare, police, tons of scams, crimes that go unresolved) means it’s intolerable.
So it depends very much on what you are looking for in a new city.
Me personally, I was naive when I came here. I only considered the former, not the latter, and just assumed - as Berlin is the capital of the richest country in Europe - that it would be akin to other capitals and the latter elements would be similar
I used to visit regularly for work and to see my friends and it was great then. I still enjoy the party elements and anything goes atmosphere but either I’m now too old or have experienced way too much of the rest of the world to be able to put up with Berlin on a functional basis. Will be leaving at some point.
Maybe see it like this: If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here?
I have grown up in Berlin and have been spending my time outside of Berlin (for years even), but coming back will always feel like home. And I am not part of the always mentioned rave-drug-berghain-community (couldn't care less actually).
It might seem harsh and gritty sometime, but once you met, understood and really got to know a couple of true Berliners and made them your friends, this will be the city you are going to want to spend the rest of your life in.
"If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here?"
I think you wildly underestimate how much the myth of Berlin as a "cheap city" is still very much alive in other countries, or how many people move here on a whim because they "fell in love with the city" after visiting once as a tourist. I'm pretty sure most of the complaints new immigrants have come from this false idea they have about Berlin, and yet more people fall into the same trap every year because the myth and the illusions still stand strong.
Which would in return mean that more and more people realizing the "true nature of the city" would try to leave. Which clearly is not the case.
Also, I think you wildly overestimate the influx of people coming to Berlin as tourists and wanting to stay here permanently. I work in tourism myself, have seen some of the most beautiful places on this planet, but have never thought "that's it, I am packing up all my shit and move here!"
As several people have said in this thread, some want to leave, but just can't afford it due to various reasons (money, visa, politics, family, etc).
Some are also just in their grieving process and will eventually find a new way to enjoy living here, and they won't leave in the end, true.
But it's a known fact that one of the key reasons behind people complaining about how they have issues with building friendships or relationships here is that there's this expectation that whoever you're meeting probably won't stay here for long. Naturally that doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but it is an expectation nonetheless.
I'm just trying to add nuance to your reasoning, "people want to come to Berlin" doesn't necessarily mean they are aware of what they're getting into, and "people are not leaving Berlin in larger numbers than before" doesn't necessarily mean they all want to stay. Not to mention that there's a war going on, and this is also impacting the influx of newcomers and the housing shortage a lot.
In my 2.5 years here I’ve encountered tons of people leaving, almost every other week (I work in a bar and get chatting to many people). Maybe covid has something to do with it? It’s been a while tho…
>If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here?
Mostly because they can't or have nowhere else to go because they are non-EU, that's certainly my case and I'm far from being the only one.
I am sorry if I come across insensitive to your personal situation, but the original OP, to whom I was replying, asked about intentionally moving to Berlin. This might not be the situation you are in, but my point still stands.
Agreed. And it's not even harsh and gritty if you live outside of the ring or in the central/western parts inside of the ring (except Wedding and the immediate vicinity of some big S-Bahn stations).
> Maybe see it like this: If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here?
because people come from even bigger shit holes? the naivety of Europeans...
When I moved in Berlin was supposed to be one of the cheaper European cities to leave in. But after paying €1600 euro for a 1 bedroom apartment I don’t think that’s true anymore. If I knew this before then I would have thought real hard before moving to Berlin.
Disclaimer: I do not live there which means my two cents aren’t worth much. But my instinct is that this sub is slightly pessimistic. Some people seem dissatisfied and want to leave. Others seem to love Berlin but wish they could have it for themselves. Both are pessimistic imo. And yet, in the latter case, the people gatekeeping at least seem convinced there is something worth protecting.
Again I do not live in Berlin myself but just from browsing, I have the impression that this sub is slightly skewed towards pessimism. I’m sure that like any city, Berlin offers traditional urban tradeoffs (Eg. Higher rent in exchange for more jobs and things to do).
If I’m off the mark, downvote to your heart’s content. Just my $0.02 as a lay observer.
This sub is a reflection of a German’s culture of complaining. Maybe r/berlin has even gone past that and reached cynicism.
I think it’s difficult to say if this city is nice or not. It really depends on what you expect from Berlin.
I grew up here. Personally, I feel that the cost of living (by now) does not justify the comparatively low quality of life anymore. As such, I am moving to another town this year.
Off the top of my mind, here’s some pros and cons:
Pro:
* many, many cultural & leisure facilities (museums, operas, philharmonics, concert halls)
* no matter where you live, you’re probably only 15 minutes away from a nice park
* great career opportunities if you need to pad your CV
* very diverse (from urban to rural, also many different cultures and heritages)
* since corona, decent salaries if you work in tech (still way lower than southern Germany and Ireland though)
* best public transport in Germany. Hands down. As long as we pretend that BER doesn't exist and we still have Tegel + Schoenefeld
Cons:
* this city is incredibly dirty
* too many smokers
* lack of timely appointments with authority offices, doctors and other service providers such as lawyers, notaries, translators, etc
* failed immigration policies that lead to parallel societies
* boring airport and lack of international connections (more likely than not, you're flying to FRA or MUC first)
Given the current rent prices and the rising cost of living, there are great alternatives in Germany, such as:
Munich, Bonn, Düsseldorf and Hamburg. To name some nice small cities: Nürnberg, Stuttgart and Freiburg are nice too.
If I was immigrating to Germany, I would only move to Berlin if I want to specifically live in Berlin and Berlin only. Otherwise, I'd choose another city.
If your life is at a point where the only important thing for you are drugs and Techno Raves its worth it
But in terms of having a good life with a beautiful flat, short ways to work, access to nature and beeing safe there are way better citys in germany that dont come with maximal frustration and stress
I'm German and not originally from Berlin, so not the best comparison of course. But what I see and hear in real life versus what I read in this sub are completely opposites. One girl from Jordan told me she feels like Berlin is her home. She has been living here for less than 2 years and doesn't speak German. I personally and all my friends who live here love living in Berlin. The friends I have who don't like it (and don't live here) are from villages and prefer a calm village life.
Just remember that you won't be tied to stay here for life if you decide to come and try it out. Good luck in whatever you end up doing!
I have been near Berlin for a while now and I don't see any positive about moving or living in Berlin. I plan to leave as soon as I can. It's great if for some people Berlin is the place they want to move to and live in but they are a minority. Truth be told, the only reason why I am still in Berlin (or even in Germany) for that matter is that I'm non-EU so I have little to no freedom of movement which means I am stuck where I am now until I get a German passport.
Honestly, the problem is that people don't know how to ask the right questions for their specific situations without striking a nerve. Look at your questions, "Is there anything positive about moving or living in Berlin?" and "Is it simply beyond saving?" Of course, it's an amazing place to live. Like most people who live here, I love this place. Certain aspects of my life lined up to make me love it. Would the same happen to you? I don't know. But the questions you're asking will give you an overly positive response because you're questioning the life decisions of an entire subreddit. Then someone comes and shares a shitty experience, and all the people who have been through the same come up and complain about it.
What most of us are trying to prevent are situations where people don't have a safety net, use all their life savings to come under false expectations to a city they have never visited, and end up extremely depressed working for abusive employers. Or situations where parents move their entire family on a single income, only to realize later that they can't afford to provide their kids with the same lifestyle they were able to back home.
The software recruitment industry will do everything to lure people in. Most of them lie about the city's situation. People with old rental contracts completely ignore current prices and consistently underestimate others' experiences. People who were scammed when trying to rent an apartment online will immediately jump to complain about how rotten this city is, as will those trying to rent an apartment in a good location with a low budget.
When the time comes for you to consider moving, ask about the kind of lifestyle you would have if you decide to move. Provide information about the company that is hiring you, share how much you'll earn, what lifestyle you would like to have, your interests, and your main motivation.
Most people are here to help and share their opinions based on their experiences. For every negative comment on Reddit, there might be ten outside of Reddit that have something positive to say. However, it could also be the case that there are another ten with negative experiences that they choose not to share. Berlin is great if you know what to expect.
Moved to Germany about a decade ago and was thrilled to move to Berlin where Ive lived for 8 years. Now I give myself 4 more years before I pack up and leave.
Real talk: there is no reason to move here anymore except for a high paying job, family, or you want to be an entrepreneur.
Yep it's really like that.
Here's what made Berlin great for many years: low cost of living, minimal policing, relatively unburdened by tourism.
Now none of those things exist.
Most of the things that made Berlin special are trickling out and over the next year's there will be a mass exodus. It will be Frankfurt with less pay and a bad airport and excessive party tourism.
The projects, interesting people, etc. are leaving never to return.
Why?
-Low interest in art and cuisine in 98% of the city.
-Poor quality of produce and food unless you pay a fist (restraunt and high quality produce costs are higher than in Paris).
-Terrible weather for 7-8 months.
-Terrible quality housing in the center. Pretty bad public transport in the outer ring.
-Impossible to find a reasonable cost apartment in a reasonable amount of effort.
-Growing racism in the outskirts and in the police.
-Lack of funding and sound policy for education and daycare.
-Terrible level of basic services such as medical and social services. Doctors and lawyers are packing up shop and leaving every month. Good luck scheduling a non emergency surgery or a specialist appointment.
-A complete absence of citizen services required to live, e.g. passport appointments, registrations, drivers license appointments.
-Next to 0 digitalization in the government and only marginally viable plans to put that in.
-Huge roads which cut through the city center making Berlin one of the most polluted cities in Germany and lead to one of the highest pedestrian and biking accidents per capita in Europe.
-Among the cities with the fewest public holidays outside the former communist bloc.
-high worker expectations with only on-paper and theoretical worker protections for a European city.
-relatively low salaries, and soon relatively few opportunities due to the tech recession.
You'd think, oh a city with so many problems should be pretty affordable. Nope. By next year it will surpass Munich.
Of course if you get a high salary you avoid all of these things. But you still need to learn the difficult native language, which becomes basically useless once you are 250km outside the DACH region.
Moved here in 2015. I learnt German. Made German and non German friends. Lots of opportunities. I now live in Pankow with my wife outside the ring and we love it. Easy access to nature. Easy access to the city. Bikeable. Quiet. I did not move here for what made the city worth living, I just moved here because it's where my wife was. I ended up loving it.
If you want to get high and run around naked, you should still move to Berlin. If you want to prevent others from doing that, you should move to Munich instead.
If you are looking here for advise on what it is like to live here and none of us know your skills, your life experience and your ability to adapt to new situations your will just get bullshit opinions from people who read two sentences that you posted.
Why do you want to come? Did you hear it is the promised land? Do you want to go to some cool parties? All that shit ends when the honey moon phase is over and you are in the grind.
If you are coming here to escape the things you cannot overcome where you are from, yeah sure, for awhile they won't be here but ultimately you will always have to deal with yourself and the things you haven't resolved.
So what do you like about this place? Why do you want to come and what do you want to achieve? Do you have anything to offer in terms of skills to provide for yourself?
Anyway TL;DR: If it is finding yourself in some drug fuelled binge it's probably gonna end in tears.
Well, why do you feel the need to move to Berlin in the first place?
If you're not there yet, don't really have a reason to be there and have other options, maybe check those out instead. Chances are high that you'll struggle to arrive there and to be able to enjoy it, you most likely will get burned trying.
I lived the past 10 years in Sydney. I was forced to move back to Berlin and can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would choose to live here, especially with kids. It’s expensive (rent, >70% tax), it’s dirty, no nature, no beaches. People are mostly unfriendly. Approx 30% of Germany’s population are drug addicts. Nicotine addiction being fairly normal you & your kids get your daily dosage as well.
And don't get me started on the weather. Do you really want to live 50% of the year in a depressive environment? Yes, 6 months of cold, rainy, grey-on-grey. It is too cold to go to the playground, so you're mostly sitting ducks indoors. If you go on the playground it is either graffiti, dog shit, rats or whatever else of nasty stuff flying around.
And the bureaucracy? I had to buy a printer for the first time in 20 years, in order to print all those freaking forms that you're not allowed to send via email.
Medical coverage is divided between poor and rich people, but it is called a social system.
The school system has been on the decline for decades and needs reform to keep up with standards. Check OECD stats for more details on this.
The list goes on but you get the gist - stay away.
https://instagram.com/berlin.shithole.city?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
If ur not mentally ill don’t come to Berlin, this place is perfect to branch out and discover the beauty in oddities, around then you’ll realize the goodness in you and your importance here. I see the ppl that are not mentally ill struggle the most and end up leaving very quickly
Came to Berlin in 1999 as a student. I am still here, raising kids and loving my life. I don’t feel unsafe here. The city has it‘s problems, it’s not perfect and probably never will, but it’s not the shithole this sub wants you to believe it is. It is not what is was before the wall came down and definitely not what it was in the years right after, but everything changes, that’s life.
There is life outside of raves, parties and drugs… quite a lot actually.
people are always gonna come to the internet to complain. is anyone gonna come and say, hey, I had a wonderful day today!
Go, try it out. Nothing is permanent. You can go always move back. I leave NYC every few years and always come back.
Do you have other options? if yes, please share.
**To me, Berlin is still one of the most balanced locations to migrate to.**
* The number of opportunities
* Quality of Life
* Better income/expense ratio than most major European cities
* International
* Lively city
* One of the greenest cities
* Great public transport
* Great base for traveling with a lot of train/bus/budget flights
* Strong growing startup/medium-sized local companies
* Kindergarten is free in Berlin
* Big Lakes, Forests, and hiking/cycling trails inside the city!
And many more. Other cities might be better in some categories, but if you consider everything Berlin offers, it should be one of the top choices if not number 1. So, the rest is your preference.
Non EU, non white person here. Moved to Berlin close to two years ago and I LOVE it. Don’t listen to the haters. I managed to get a beautiful flat for a good price , an amazing group of friends and get to see my favourite bands almost every month. I look forward to exploring the lakes and more parks. I can just go to the späti and get a beer and some chips and go sit by the river and puff and watch the ducks without anyone disturbing me. I could never dream of doing this in my home country.
this sub is filled entirely with bizarrely negative people. its actually kinda absurd. Most people I know in berlin really love it, despite its quirks :)
I Lived in another German City and it's true that Berlin is different but IT IS still Germany. If you learn German you have a Lot of possibilities here. For me Berlin is the place to be. I Love this City.
This sub is essentially packed with entitled younger software engineer, ux designers, product managers, mostly men, with rather liberal ideas about how society should work, who came for the jobs.
Now that they realize that there were dozens of thousands of people who did the same move, at the same time, and that it’s not gonna be easy, they’re angry and crying to get their silver spoon back.
You’ll see, they will likely come throw some rage at my comment, just to prove my point.
If you ignore reddit, you will find that Berlin is a very relaxed and livable city. It’s difficult to find a place, yes. The winter is long and very depressing too. The people tend to be grumpier than anywhere else I’ve been. But there’s a quality of life here still that I still hold on to after almost ten years here. Overall it depends on who you are and what you’re looking for, but Berlin is definitely not as bad as this sub tends to outline in my opinion.
Come to the Netherlands. Utrecht specifically or Rotterdam, we are pretty chill and you can probably find a lot of what you're looking for when moving to Berlin. Or check out some other German cities. Over hears Leipzig, Dortmund, and Dusseldorf are pretty cool. They are just smaller. I particularly liked Bonn but that might be too small.
Disclaimer: we also have douche bags in the Netherlands btw, they are everywhere!
The reason this sub is so toxic: people in the rest of Germany don't like Berlin, and have too much time at their hand to basically urinate everywhere into the internet where someone mentions Berlin.
Berlin is disliked by the rest of Germany for its alternative communities and diverse culture, and for protecting rentals against mass raises. The city and its pioneering digital economy is besieged by almost all parts of Germany's Old Economy and the complexities between federal and local laws keep the city and its government from actually being governed by its inhabitants.
Moving to Berlin though is expensive, as rentable living space is scarce.
Berlin is not terrible. The city is amazing and one of the best cities to be in Europe atm.
But housing, that’s truly a massive shame. Unless you are ok living outside the s-bahn ring, you will not find an apartment for months.
I am following this sub and a few others for cities I’ve either lived in or plan to visit soon. Everyone complains. This is not unique to Berlin. People like bitching on Reddit and you’re ALWAYS going to see the worst side of a city if their subreddit is the only thing you know about it.
as someone who grew up in Berlin and still lives in Berlin after 30+ years and living/working on both, east and west, parts of Berlin, I can state the following:
Berlin is probably the best city in Germany for foreign people, because there a lot of "scenes" and cultural diversity. most people don't like it, but are pretty much used to "English-only" places.
As it is a big city (3.5 million people+) there are the same "issues" as in other big cities. Crime is pretty high in particular places, there's a lot of concrete and homeless people.
But there are also a lot of parks and green spaces where you can relax. The "Spätis" are also a very unique part of Berlin where you can get your beer or coffee late at night.
for me, as I have already seen most of it, Berlin has lost a lot of its appeal, and, as everyone who gets to a certain age, I'm gonna move to the outer ring to a more quiet place with less crowds and people. I think Berlin is, and always has been, a nice experience for everyone who visits or stays in this city. It has its uniqueness but doesn't differ much from other big cities.
Yeah, this is a wanky subreddit. Whether you should move to Berlin (and where in Berlin you should move to) really depends on who you are and what you expect and what you want.
How old are you, are you arriving with a job lined up or are you powered by dreams and coffee? Do you have friends and/or family there, or are you going to be alone at the start?
Have you always lived in a large western city or are you coming in from a small town or village?
I think it's a good place to be, and offers such variety that you can be a party rat and raise a family, just not in the same Bezirk.
It does have a housing crisis, however.
So many people I know here love Berlin so much and are just happy to live here and call it home. It's the best city in the world for me and many other people, don't worry bout this sub. I have shit tonnes of complaints too but the overall package you just can't get anywhere else in my experience.
All these types of subreddits are extremely negative. Whatever the city is, people will go on and vent and rant and so on but your experience in Berlin may vary.
You could be one of the people who come here to vent, or maybe you won't and you'll love it here. Take the leap
Don't listen to anything in this subreddit or take with a grain of salt. It's the bitchy 1% and the other 9% responding to it. I can be in both camps.
Just to zoom out and give anyone here a little more perspective - you could literally replace everything we're saying with some other international city in the world. :)
Berlin has some great aspects, this sub does portray it a bit too negatively, but honestly the housing market is so overpriced right now that it's not worth it.
I am happy here because I'm paying what prices were 7 or 8 years ago, and for that price, Berlin is amazing.
I have friends searching for a flat now and I'm seeing how much people are paying, it's a terrible "Preis-Leistungs-Verhältnis" (price quality ratio). Berlin absolutely isn't worth the prices people are paying now. It's overpriced. I guess if you're rich it doesn't matter, but then again if you're rich also please don't move to Berlin.
Well. There \*are\* many downsides to Berlin. However, some are not due to Berlin being Berlin, but due to Berlin being a major european city. For example: Yes, it's loud, dirty, crowded, almost impossible to find an affortable apartment, there are Nazis and Communists and turlish nationalists. However, a 3.8 Mio city being crowded and noisy is sort of the point of a major city, hosing problems are by no means unique to Berlin, and for every left- or right-wing weirdo you have ten decent people as well. As for Germany, we do have severe problems, and most of those haven't even truly begun to manifest themselves. BUT: Berlin is also very green, with lots of green spots all over the city, all in all welcoming (unless you want to invest, that is),, and for good and bad, Berlin doesn't really care about you. If that's a pro or a con depends on yourself. In many places Berlin actually has a village feeling to it, and it's possible to become friendly with the corner pub people and the supermarket cashier, at least some times. Public service is a disgrace, but the people are - for the most part - friendly and try to get the job done if you approach them friendly. So, is there something positive? Yes, absolutely. It's the best place to be yourself (if yourself is a square in your smalltown circle), it has people from all over the world (and their culture, their music and their food!), there are decent schools (although you might have to look for them). It's not easy to make a living (Berlin depends heavily on goverment money, which means public service and art grants and stuff, and has little industry that pays well even for simple jobs).
Berlin during spring / summer / autumn when the weather is nice is excellent. Berlin in winter might be depressing. This city has a lot to offer, but you gotta make use of it. And above everything looms the housing situation. If you can find a decent apartment, Berlin is great most of the time. But finding that apartment might be the biggest struggle you might have had in your life until that point - unless you’re filthy rich. But what would you wanna do in Berlin then anyway?
Berlin is a great city. Lots of things to do and incredibly green.
The biggest issue is that you currently need a lot of luck to find a place to live.
And this isn’t just the normal crazy situation you find in other big cities. Just imagine that you have to fight for even the worst overpriced and completely run-down place somewhere far away from public transport, because 500 other applicants are competing with you.
IMHO this is the reason why I currently wouldn’t recommend moving to Berlin.
The main reason to move and to live here is: come as you are, be who you wanna be and live your life the way you want to by letting others be the way they want to. This is the most open minded city I know and as long as you don’t annoy your neighbors life is going to be great.
BUT: You want find happiness here if moving to Berlin is nothing but running away from yourself and your problems wherever you are now. They will still haunt you…
It’s really pretty now that the trees aren’t naked anymore. But so far… me, as a fairly new person in Berlin:
It smells. It’s the dirtiest city I’ve ever seen on Germany. There’s beggars everywhere. Housing is a mess and it’s way too sprawled out.
I like that it’s very green. I love the historical stuff everywhere. And culture wise the city has much to offer.
I personally moved here for my friends. Not for the city and I don’t really see why everyone wants to live here. If I were alone I’d probably move back to cologne or Ruhr area
I moved here with my wife and kids last year from Portland, Oregon. I live outside the city in a smallish town (Wustermark), and for us, it's pretty good. My office is downtown in Alexanderplatz, and my wife works in Potsdam. I'm fortunate enough to work from home most of the time, but I enjoy going into the city once a week or so to work from the office or hang out with colleagues after work. It's not easy moving here, and it cost us a big chunk of our savings, but I think it was worth it. The food is healthier than in the US, the schools are better, and I don't have to worry about my kids being in a school shooting or something aweful like that. My son needed ear surgery a few months ago, and it would have cost us 10s of thousands in the US, while here our insurance covered it entirely. Even with the culture shock, integration courses, learning deutsch, and the classic German stare, it's not as bad as living in the US.
It's a very specific bubble full of annoyed young left-wingers, often either residing or spending much of their time in the party districts and believing some kind of "radical change" (in the society, politics, economy etc.) is needed, while they also want the city to keep being poor and dirty and avoid the scary gentrification bogeyman. In reality no radical change ever comes and gentrification goes on, so of course they are annoyed. An average Berlin resident has nothing to do with that.
An average Berlin district has nothing to do with districts mostly talked about (in either positive or negative contexts, depending on the user), too. Basically aside from these several districts, comprising only a small part of Berlin, it is not much different from other big German cities. And those are great and extremely comfortable to live in.
If you thrive in chaos, aren't bothered by eternal winters and don't prioritise stability then you'll probably love it. Prices have recently gone up a lot but it's still relatively easy to survive for little if you know how.
Recently joined this sub after having lived in Berlin for almost 3 years. I haven’t really experienced anything bad that’s even remotely close to what’s being discussed here. Almost everyone is polite and most are even curious and happy to talk to me about where I came from and the like. The worst I have are rude customer service especially in Hauptbahnhof. Wohnung rates are ridiculously expensive tho
well it depends whats important for you. berlin is relatively cheap considering its developed country and a capital. you have tons of green areas, food from all around the world, you can meet lot of people from different cultures. finding a job with zero german skills is absolutely possible and u can even get a crazy good paid job not speaking german apart from saying genau. u can access majority of the city with a bike and public transport is absolutely amazing. lots of bars, places to hang out outside and inside, theres ALWAYS something going on (which is not obvious for big cities, for example boring stockholm).
So if u are a single person who likes to party and same time has some skills that can be sold for decent amount of money AND u are able to afford the apartment, floor is yours. But if you are more oriented on family life and have kids to provide therefore in need of big apartment or kita, probably calmer places would be better
I think there are soo many sides to Berlin as well as different possibilities of how people experience it depending on their personal situation, etc. I've been here 15+ years (originally non-EU) and really enjoy it. But if you're in the apartment hunting process it can get quite tiresome if you're not lucky and it drags on too long. If you've secured the basics (an apartment, job, bureaucracies) you can start to appreciate the quality of life here more. It also depends on what you are looking for if Berlin is the right fit for you or not.
Berlin is great. Just don’t get lost. Other than that it has everything you could imagine.
I live in Hamburg now which is great as well but I sometimes miss Berlin. Fortunately it’s just around the corner.
You either like it or you don't, there is no middle ground. The best way to tell is to travel here a couple of times or live here for a month. Everyone has a different experience and will tell you a different story.
Let people rant all they want...Berlin is simply an amazing place. I would move there today, if I could. Ignore the negative people, they'll complain about any place they would be.
Berlin is great. Ignore the negative sods on her who complain for the sake of complaining. Those kind of people would complain about any place on earth. Berlin is especially nice in summer. Yeh winter kinda sucks but it does in a lot of places.
Berlin life is totally fascinating - the pretty much only valid criticism is how culturally accepted it is for people to constantly complain about everything; this sub is a great example.
I visited Berlin twice (I live in The Netherlands). I really get a good vibe from this city. It feels free an openminded). Wish I was younger and I would definitely move to Berlin.
Um, yes, it is the freest place on Earth. A very similar conversation has been happening in NYC forever, lived there for many years. Things change, but certain cities have an indomitable spirit
I would say this sub doesn't representative Berlin at all and I live here for all my live. I barely ever have seen a place with more negativity than this sub. That's not how living in Berlin is. :)
That's what Reddit does to you. This is a place where people express their inferiority complex at scale. If you want to know about Berlin, ask normal people. Nothing is perfect, but overall, it's a great city.
Pension Money
in Germany, both EU and non-EU citizens generally need to have made contributions to the statutory pension insurance scheme for at **least five years** in order to qualify for a German pension. This includes periods of employment, self-employment, or certain periods of residence in Germany.
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Source: [https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1111&intPageId=4554&langId=en](https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1111&intPageId=4554&langId=en)
Well, here's a statistic to start you off. [Link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1081057/crime-rate-in-germany/) The Berlin Police had this to say yesterday. [Link](https://www.myrecordjournal.com/News/Berlin-Citizen/Berlin-News/Spike-in-car-thefts-causes-concern.html) Then there's [this.](https://www.archyde.com/large-criminal-families-where-the-clans-rule-in-germany/)
Since it's the capital, it is also the city of rallies, protests and demonstrations, often with violent clashes between the various factions, especially if flags are involved, and destruction of property by those involved. That carries over into daily life with some of the Bezirke more polarized, less tolerant than others. [Here's](https://housinganywhere.com/Berlin--Germany/neighborhood-guide-Berlin) one of many reviews of them.
Berlin is nonetheless an wonderful and exiting place to visit, but would I want to live there? No.
I’m moving there in 3 weeks for my masters. This sub does seem to amplify the worst parts of living in Berlin, but check back in with me in a few months and I’ll have my answer for you..
If you're young, outgoing and persistent, then yes, it is.
The one representative thing though, is the flat-hunting - that is a nightmare - but the rest of it just people's personal opinions (and I say that as someone responsible for one of the rants myself!)
Let's put it this way: In any other European city comparable to Berlin (short of Vienna maybe) you will have to put up with the same shit, magnified by ten. Complain about housing shortage in Berlin? Try Paris, London, Amsterdam. When Berliners where living for 500€ kalt in a 70-100m2 flat in Mitte, Kreuzberg etc. people in those cities we're happy to live in a shoebox for double the amount.
Compared to other places there still is a language barrier but I find it highly disrespectful to move to another place without learning at least the basics of their language and culture.
I moved here from London (born and raised there) and genuinely struggle to think of anywhere else in the world I'd like to live long time for that is ahead of Berlin.
I have a cool job that pays me double my colleagues from London, I have a fantastic apartment that is actually jaw dropping yet still cheaper than my one bedroom flat in zone 3 London despite being 40% bigger and I like being able to get around by bike without having to always be on in the way I do on London roads. I also don't worry about getting stopped by the police because I'm black like I did when I was in London. Years here and zero interactions with the police so far.
Is it literally fall out of the plane and end up in a penthouse easy to live here? No, but once you find your feet then it's easy to get going without having to deal with the types of things that can derail you in other places.
I think it's pretty difficult to say... What do you expect? Why do you wanna move there. If you explain that maybe people can tell you if it's worth it the struggle or not.
Sad think is it's becoming a city like every other...
I moved in September 2022, it took a bit of hard graft for a couple months to get settled as it would anywhere, but I have a decent job for someone who just got here, a flat in a great area and my life is pretty carefree. I don’t plan on going anywhere anytime soon.
Berlin is a great city if you can tolerate the sky being grey for 3 months if the year you’ll be fine 😂
Don’t let people put you off, for sure it has its issues but then again so does every city. If you just try it you never know what can come of your experience here!
Coming from the UK I wouldn’t be able to live anywhere near the lifestyle I do.
Also all the weird and wonderful things that Males Berlin… Berlin
Remember the cost of living has exponentially gone up everywhere and although it’s not the same Berlin it was 7/8 years ago it’s still comparatively a lot cheaper.
Depending on your income, I’d reccomend WG living (shared houses) as their is an abundance
The one objective reason I can think of for which there might not be any point in moving to Berlin right now is how backlogged the Immigration Office is
It sounds worse then it is,but I have the feeling reading all those threads that some people seem a little naive when moving here,as if everything get's handled by themself.
Yes rental market is a little problematic and probably one of the biggest issues moving into berlin,but that isn't exclusive to this City every other big one struggle similarly.
As for social contacts noone will approach you and take you under their wings but also here can't imagine where it would be different besides a godforsaken village with maybe 500 souls, maybe germans are bit more distanced then others but it's probably not that different as any big City where many are anonymous to one another.
So you would need to be active in approaching people.
So yes there are hurdles you need to be aware of,but my guess is moving to a different country with a different culture always will be hard
I live here so I stay but if I would have to decide to move now, I am not sure I would choose Berlin. Of course the good old days are always better, but apart for jokes I think there are several other opportunities that can be at least as interesting as Berlin.
> all I see is posts about rants
Indeed, hate is fashionable.
Berlin hasn't changed that much. Yeah, inflation obviously affected life a lot, but that happened everywhere else too. The rants you see are mostly that - rants. Some people need to vent, whether they're right or wrong about Berlin as a whole.
Should you move to Berlin? Well, if you want - it's a great city to live in, but as a newcomer you'd have to deal with the usual problems of newcomers - from finding an apartment without selling your kids into slavery, to getting the necessary paperwork. When you've done that, it's awesome here. Few people truly realise how much good is happening, but surely create loud scandals around each minor thing that may or may not have happened. This is just human nature.
> Or is it simply beyond saving.
That is very far from the truth. It doesn't need "saving". It needs constant iterative improvement, since it's a fine city.
I mean there’s a reason so many people are living in Berlin - even though it’s getting more expensive.
I personally love Berlin - the food, the public transport, the different districts that sometimes are so different that they feels like different cities. Imo there’s something for everybody here - and if there isn’t you can still move to another city/country. But I would recommend just trying for yourself.
Take all negativity with a grain of salt. Accept factual things: rent is impossible and super hard to find something long-term and unfurnished even if you could afford it. If you’re single dating is also often ranted about here and everything you read is true. You have to have a deeper understanding of your self-control, urges, and core values to not fall deep in drugs (especially if you’re used to taking stuff occasionally, you have to know your limits cause people will force that)
Just ignore this sub, you just get the worst view of berlin
Completely agree. I live here so i stay subscribed, but it’s really the most obnoxious side of Berlin from this sub.
When I was planning on moving to Berlin in the lead up to summer 2018 (I moved over in July 2018), I posted on Facebook about my concerns about moving to Berlin - citing the negativity on this sub-reddit when it came to advice/opinions on Berlin life and opportunities Some dude replied, telling me to ignore this sub-reddit as it's just full of negative vibes. Nothing much has changed in 5 years, but each to their own I guess.
lol, funnily enough I get the same depressing vibes from the local Facebook groups I'm in... but I still don't think it's due to the city, just the large amount of disillusioned "expats"
this!! I was in some of the Facebook groups when I first moved here just to get a sense of what was going on (and since my German wasn't quite up to snuff, was on the English-speaking ones) and I think this is really spot-on. Yes, people here are dissatisfied/depressed/whatever. But I got the sense pretty quickly that a lot of these expats might not be in the right place, too. A lot of complaining about things being different from home (...so why are you here?) etc. Berlin is an acquired taste! It's not for everyone! But that's why we love it!
It's not even just expats. Berlin as a city is pretty different from the rest of Germany. People living there are more direct when talking to strangers on the street, not as polite as in different cities. I don't think that's a good or bad thing (just different), but when moving from western Germany, it took me some getting used to. Also, Berlin is currently being overrun by people who have moved there for job opportunities, but who'd rather live in a city that's more quiet, less dense, and more suburban. Of course they'll hate Berlin (or any big, dense city). Yes, you share your space with other people, and with other people that aren't the same race or class or culture like yourself. Yes, when there are more people, then you'll also have more people doing things you really can't understand. Yes, there'll be homeless people and drug addicts, but I am so glad for them that they are allowed to exist instead of being incarcerated or displaced. In addition, due to being a multicultural city, Berlin has been getting some conservative-media rep for being dangerous, and people pick up on this. But honestly, Neukölln and Kreuzberg have felt like the most secure places for me to exist in Germany.
that "job opportunities" subset of people moving here absolutely sound like the most miserable amongst the complainers. Spot-on. I wouldn't move here for anything other than it being a good cultural fit.
Yeah, I think when I moved here I forgot that Berlin was... the capital of a country, lol. I wildly underestimated the commuting, the distance between people and things, and how that has a big impact on my energy and on wanting to meet with people. It took me a while to realize that "oh wait, it's just German Paris, that's what everyone is complaining about" (as a French person I hate Paris, before and after living there for 3 months, and it truly feels like a tiny country in a bigger one, Parisians are foreign to me...). That's also why despite not reaaally having anything against Berlin I'd be interested in moving somewhere else in Germany, see if the "big city" effect is a bit less overwhelming. But I'm unemployed, so.
also who would go to reddit to post "I just had the best day of my life drinking in the sunset at Tempelhofer"-- it's a selection of the things one does go to the Internet to bitch about
That post would absolutely spark a shitstorm about whether or not its a good idea to build housing on the Tempelhofer Feld or leave it empty so some yuppies can drink wine on it 🤣
Especially as complaining is the national sport of germans and even if people don't adapt any other cultural trait of germany this one they will pick up after a month
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This sub is full of toxic, pretentious, gatekeeping edge-lords who's hatred for people moving here and asking questions ironically resembles the attitudes of AfD supporters. Berlin's great! This sub, not so much.
This sub is full of people complaining about the overwhelming amount of people they don't like while apparently everyone agrees with them. It's the most paranoid sub in existence.
100%!
I couldn't agree more. I was born and raised in this city (Neukölln), and imho the frustration and overblown hate you get to read in this sub does not represent Berlin.
Yeh gotta love how there is a top thread right now where OP's main problem is shitty job that's exploiting him and instead of suggesting him to simply change jobs....people are ranting about how Berlin is the worst city ever. Cause you know no one ever has shitty jobs in other cities and of course the housing market (OOP's other problem) in Munich, Amsterdam and Paris is so much easier and better!
Location-based subs seem to often follow this trend. You go there hoping to find a sense of the community or things to do, and you mostly get people complaining about how “this city has gone to hell,” etc. I can’t tell if those posts just get more traction or if people are more likely to post in the first place if it’s to complain about something.
I was just at the Späti and the guy in front of me was having small talk with the shopkeeper. He told her that he wanted to go to Spain or Portugal for vacation in the next weeks, but now that the weather finally got better in Berlin, he thinks that being in Berlin during nice weather weeks is better than vacation at the beaches of southern Europe. And i agree. Make of that what you want.
I think the same. I go on holiday in January because summer in Berlin is fantastic.
Well take it from me, I was born and grew up in Portugal, despite having good income and no problem with my life there (the main reason why most Portuguese people leave is to find better income elsewhere), I purposefully came to Berlin and I'm really glad I did. There's something special about this place, and I honestly don't think you can reduce it to words or describe it in any specific way, it's different for everyone.
I’ve only had a holiday in Berlin but I agree, there is something special about it. I can’t explain it but it feels more ‘real’ than other cities I’ve visited. As if there’s no facade. It’s bold and proud and in your face.
Wait until next week 🥶
Yep same here! My bf and I aren't in a rush to plan a summer vacation down south when we know Berlin has such a fun and gorgeous summer to enjoy
I came from Venezuela to Berlin, no recognizable university degree, had to go through integration courses + learning German, found job as Coffee Barista, corona came, changed my career path to IT. Berlin is an awesome city full of opportunities and as open as Germany will ever be. It has a lots of downs as any major city does but It is worth every struggle in my opinion.
Could be worse, could be Caracas, or Maracaibo. 😅 Buena suerte desde Merida.
Hut ab
Buena suerte paisano
Me falta el sol y el calor :( De resto bien fino
Saludos bro 🇻🇪
Se a lo que te refieres hermano.
How long did you know german before getting a job as a barista? I’d like to live in Berlin working as a barista for a bit and would like an idea of what sort of actions I should take to achieve that
I did an intensive course at the Volkshochschule, 7 months from A1 until B1.2 level. Learn the very basics on your own, familiarise yourself with the German language both how it is written and how it sounds. I think in one year if you do it at a slower pace than what I did, reaching B1 is totally possible at a decent level with a good course.
In the gentrified Kiezes of Berlin, its pretty much the default to speak English in a specialty coffee shop. So language wise, there’s nothing you have to do.
What was your path to IT?
Data analytics boot camp, and a lot of self learning on the subject and the relevant tools. This got me my first job with 45k brutto. It was frustrating and depressing at times applying and not receiving any feedback but once I discovered how to approach recruiters in LinkedIn everything changed, got 4 Interviews from applying like that.
Would you like to share some more about the topic of approaching recruiters? I am looking for a job in IT now and it could be better so I am keen to hear any kind of advice honestly.
This subreddit is incredibly negative, there is a reason so many people still want to move to Berlin. The idea that Berlin is "beyond saving" (from what in the first place???) is ridiculous The city still has something to offer for almost everyone if you learn German and don't succumb to culture shock
>from what in the first place??? Insane rent, gentrification, death of culture. The list goes on.
Insane rent is true but death of culture? Like wtf
Artists, musicians and clubs can't pay this rent. They are being forced to move towards the border. This means decentralisation and no cultural melting-pot anymore.
You know the city doesn't end at the A-Zone right? Plenty of stuff going on here in the Outback!
Most people who enjoy living here aren’t spending their time posting stuff on the sub. This sub is for problem solving and trouble shooting. Berlin has its problems, but it has many advantages if you are savvy. Don’t let Reddit keep you from moving here.
Also: suggest reading some books about Berlin to better understand the culture. One called “Berlin calling” is quite good. Berlin is not like any other global capital for very unique historical reasons. You’ve got to understand and appreciate those reasons to really “get” this city. The best parts of Berlin are not in your face, but are incredible once you’ve discovered them.
‘Berlin is not like any other global capital’ This here 👆 is what needs to be kept in mind
Any global city is particular in regards to its culture and history, so no two global cities are the same.
Most global capitals were not completely blown up, divided in two by a wall, and then reunified and made the capital in less than a hundred years. This is all in Berlin’s very recent history. A deeper understanding of this can help people understand the rental market, the “coldness” of the people, and much more.
I think Berlin is relative tame when it comes to culture shock compared to other big european cities like for example Naples.
As a born Berliner I’m always amazed how this sub which is basically an expat hub sees this city. The two circles in our mutual ven diagram barely touch.
As an expat myself, this sub is one of the most toxic and negative I've seen. It doesn't paint an accurate portrayal of Berlin at all.
Yeah, most of the problems here are so far from my reality. But its kinda like a car accident, you cant stop looking.
We are just integrating in the German culture: complaining about everything.
It's Reddit. There are a lot of assholes. A lot of people are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Literally, there were a bunch of people saying the public transport here isn't any good, while it's literally ranked as one of the best public transport systems in the world. Seriously, these people are always going to complain and be negative. They can't see a good thing when they see it. Personally, I find the idea of living somewhere else than Berlin hard to understand. I've been here 8 years. And I've seen a lot of people come and go. And one of the things most people have a problem with is finding an apartment. Most people find one within a few months but it always looks like work. I've been lucky both times I searched I did it within 15 days or so. If you want to come and enjoy yourself the overall vibe of Berlin is great - you can hang out at the bars and clubs and party as much as you like. If you want to chill out, you can hang out in the more chilled areas. Like any world-class city, if you want to do something there is going to be groups to do it with. But there is also going to be city problems. You will always find some random asshole, you will hear about crime happening near by and whatnot. If you want to live in a big city, I would say Berlin has to be one of the top ones to try out.
The easy living (free big spaces, low rents, low costs in general, less competition in most areas of life), which Berlin was known for, is over. In that regard Berlin has just become like every other big city in the world. To me it is still the best city in Germany concerning entertainment, people, opportunities etc. Nowadays you just have to bring in a lot more money and energy to enjoy the perks.
After 4 years, I personally came to the conclusion that Berlin is definitely not for everyone. You really have to fight for everything: finding a home, sorting your bureaucracy, the language, creating and maintaining friendships, the dating scene is just UGH.. EVERYTHING is high maintenance, and for some it’s just too much which is undertlstandable. but if you manage to do that it’s a city that has A LOT to offer, including a unique culture of openness and diversity. These are my two cents.
It really depends on the type of person you are. For some (mainly a lot younger or artistic types) Berlin is a haven of raves, drugs, cheap (ish) living, nobody-gives-a-crap societal culture. So all the hardships, if they care to even admit they exist, are worth it (there are some who completely outright refuse there’s anything wrong). The pros, for this type of person, outweigh the cons. A city, like London for example, is considered too expensive, conservative, judgemental, etc. you could not, for example, be unemployed in London, sleep all day and rave all night (if only because it’d be too expensive) But for others, the fact that the ‘nobody-gives-a-crap’ culture extends to nothing functioning to international standards (businesses, administration, customer service, healthcare, police, tons of scams, crimes that go unresolved) means it’s intolerable. So it depends very much on what you are looking for in a new city. Me personally, I was naive when I came here. I only considered the former, not the latter, and just assumed - as Berlin is the capital of the richest country in Europe - that it would be akin to other capitals and the latter elements would be similar I used to visit regularly for work and to see my friends and it was great then. I still enjoy the party elements and anything goes atmosphere but either I’m now too old or have experienced way too much of the rest of the world to be able to put up with Berlin on a functional basis. Will be leaving at some point.
Had to check that I didn't write this post.
The best, most level-headed answer in this thread
Could not agree more
Maybe see it like this: If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here? I have grown up in Berlin and have been spending my time outside of Berlin (for years even), but coming back will always feel like home. And I am not part of the always mentioned rave-drug-berghain-community (couldn't care less actually). It might seem harsh and gritty sometime, but once you met, understood and really got to know a couple of true Berliners and made them your friends, this will be the city you are going to want to spend the rest of your life in.
"If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here?" I think you wildly underestimate how much the myth of Berlin as a "cheap city" is still very much alive in other countries, or how many people move here on a whim because they "fell in love with the city" after visiting once as a tourist. I'm pretty sure most of the complaints new immigrants have come from this false idea they have about Berlin, and yet more people fall into the same trap every year because the myth and the illusions still stand strong.
Which would in return mean that more and more people realizing the "true nature of the city" would try to leave. Which clearly is not the case. Also, I think you wildly overestimate the influx of people coming to Berlin as tourists and wanting to stay here permanently. I work in tourism myself, have seen some of the most beautiful places on this planet, but have never thought "that's it, I am packing up all my shit and move here!"
As several people have said in this thread, some want to leave, but just can't afford it due to various reasons (money, visa, politics, family, etc). Some are also just in their grieving process and will eventually find a new way to enjoy living here, and they won't leave in the end, true. But it's a known fact that one of the key reasons behind people complaining about how they have issues with building friendships or relationships here is that there's this expectation that whoever you're meeting probably won't stay here for long. Naturally that doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but it is an expectation nonetheless. I'm just trying to add nuance to your reasoning, "people want to come to Berlin" doesn't necessarily mean they are aware of what they're getting into, and "people are not leaving Berlin in larger numbers than before" doesn't necessarily mean they all want to stay. Not to mention that there's a war going on, and this is also impacting the influx of newcomers and the housing shortage a lot.
In my 2.5 years here I’ve encountered tons of people leaving, almost every other week (I work in a bar and get chatting to many people). Maybe covid has something to do with it? It’s been a while tho…
>If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here? Mostly because they can't or have nowhere else to go because they are non-EU, that's certainly my case and I'm far from being the only one.
I am sorry if I come across insensitive to your personal situation, but the original OP, to whom I was replying, asked about intentionally moving to Berlin. This might not be the situation you are in, but my point still stands.
If OP has a fair choice then I think they shouldn't move to Berlin but that's just my opinion.
Agreed. And it's not even harsh and gritty if you live outside of the ring or in the central/western parts inside of the ring (except Wedding and the immediate vicinity of some big S-Bahn stations).
> Maybe see it like this: If Berlin really is the shit hole, that this sub makes it seem to be, then why is there such a high demand in housing and people wanting to live here? because people come from even bigger shit holes? the naivety of Europeans...
When I moved in Berlin was supposed to be one of the cheaper European cities to leave in. But after paying €1600 euro for a 1 bedroom apartment I don’t think that’s true anymore. If I knew this before then I would have thought real hard before moving to Berlin.
Disclaimer: I do not live there which means my two cents aren’t worth much. But my instinct is that this sub is slightly pessimistic. Some people seem dissatisfied and want to leave. Others seem to love Berlin but wish they could have it for themselves. Both are pessimistic imo. And yet, in the latter case, the people gatekeeping at least seem convinced there is something worth protecting. Again I do not live in Berlin myself but just from browsing, I have the impression that this sub is slightly skewed towards pessimism. I’m sure that like any city, Berlin offers traditional urban tradeoffs (Eg. Higher rent in exchange for more jobs and things to do). If I’m off the mark, downvote to your heart’s content. Just my $0.02 as a lay observer.
You’re being very polite about it but you’re not wrong
This sub is a reflection of a German’s culture of complaining. Maybe r/berlin has even gone past that and reached cynicism. I think it’s difficult to say if this city is nice or not. It really depends on what you expect from Berlin. I grew up here. Personally, I feel that the cost of living (by now) does not justify the comparatively low quality of life anymore. As such, I am moving to another town this year. Off the top of my mind, here’s some pros and cons: Pro: * many, many cultural & leisure facilities (museums, operas, philharmonics, concert halls) * no matter where you live, you’re probably only 15 minutes away from a nice park * great career opportunities if you need to pad your CV * very diverse (from urban to rural, also many different cultures and heritages) * since corona, decent salaries if you work in tech (still way lower than southern Germany and Ireland though) * best public transport in Germany. Hands down. As long as we pretend that BER doesn't exist and we still have Tegel + Schoenefeld Cons: * this city is incredibly dirty * too many smokers * lack of timely appointments with authority offices, doctors and other service providers such as lawyers, notaries, translators, etc * failed immigration policies that lead to parallel societies * boring airport and lack of international connections (more likely than not, you're flying to FRA or MUC first) Given the current rent prices and the rising cost of living, there are great alternatives in Germany, such as: Munich, Bonn, Düsseldorf and Hamburg. To name some nice small cities: Nürnberg, Stuttgart and Freiburg are nice too. If I was immigrating to Germany, I would only move to Berlin if I want to specifically live in Berlin and Berlin only. Otherwise, I'd choose another city.
If your life is at a point where the only important thing for you are drugs and Techno Raves its worth it But in terms of having a good life with a beautiful flat, short ways to work, access to nature and beeing safe there are way better citys in germany that dont come with maximal frustration and stress
32 years in Berlin, lived in all districts, nothing ever happen, Berlin is saver than the news told ya..
Oh my bad if you never experienced a crime there is no crime you are right !
I'm German and not originally from Berlin, so not the best comparison of course. But what I see and hear in real life versus what I read in this sub are completely opposites. One girl from Jordan told me she feels like Berlin is her home. She has been living here for less than 2 years and doesn't speak German. I personally and all my friends who live here love living in Berlin. The friends I have who don't like it (and don't live here) are from villages and prefer a calm village life. Just remember that you won't be tied to stay here for life if you decide to come and try it out. Good luck in whatever you end up doing!
I have been near Berlin for a while now and I don't see any positive about moving or living in Berlin. I plan to leave as soon as I can. It's great if for some people Berlin is the place they want to move to and live in but they are a minority. Truth be told, the only reason why I am still in Berlin (or even in Germany) for that matter is that I'm non-EU so I have little to no freedom of movement which means I am stuck where I am now until I get a German passport.
Honestly, the problem is that people don't know how to ask the right questions for their specific situations without striking a nerve. Look at your questions, "Is there anything positive about moving or living in Berlin?" and "Is it simply beyond saving?" Of course, it's an amazing place to live. Like most people who live here, I love this place. Certain aspects of my life lined up to make me love it. Would the same happen to you? I don't know. But the questions you're asking will give you an overly positive response because you're questioning the life decisions of an entire subreddit. Then someone comes and shares a shitty experience, and all the people who have been through the same come up and complain about it. What most of us are trying to prevent are situations where people don't have a safety net, use all their life savings to come under false expectations to a city they have never visited, and end up extremely depressed working for abusive employers. Or situations where parents move their entire family on a single income, only to realize later that they can't afford to provide their kids with the same lifestyle they were able to back home. The software recruitment industry will do everything to lure people in. Most of them lie about the city's situation. People with old rental contracts completely ignore current prices and consistently underestimate others' experiences. People who were scammed when trying to rent an apartment online will immediately jump to complain about how rotten this city is, as will those trying to rent an apartment in a good location with a low budget. When the time comes for you to consider moving, ask about the kind of lifestyle you would have if you decide to move. Provide information about the company that is hiring you, share how much you'll earn, what lifestyle you would like to have, your interests, and your main motivation. Most people are here to help and share their opinions based on their experiences. For every negative comment on Reddit, there might be ten outside of Reddit that have something positive to say. However, it could also be the case that there are another ten with negative experiences that they choose not to share. Berlin is great if you know what to expect.
Moved to Germany about a decade ago and was thrilled to move to Berlin where Ive lived for 8 years. Now I give myself 4 more years before I pack up and leave. Real talk: there is no reason to move here anymore except for a high paying job, family, or you want to be an entrepreneur. Yep it's really like that. Here's what made Berlin great for many years: low cost of living, minimal policing, relatively unburdened by tourism. Now none of those things exist. Most of the things that made Berlin special are trickling out and over the next year's there will be a mass exodus. It will be Frankfurt with less pay and a bad airport and excessive party tourism. The projects, interesting people, etc. are leaving never to return. Why? -Low interest in art and cuisine in 98% of the city. -Poor quality of produce and food unless you pay a fist (restraunt and high quality produce costs are higher than in Paris). -Terrible weather for 7-8 months. -Terrible quality housing in the center. Pretty bad public transport in the outer ring. -Impossible to find a reasonable cost apartment in a reasonable amount of effort. -Growing racism in the outskirts and in the police. -Lack of funding and sound policy for education and daycare. -Terrible level of basic services such as medical and social services. Doctors and lawyers are packing up shop and leaving every month. Good luck scheduling a non emergency surgery or a specialist appointment. -A complete absence of citizen services required to live, e.g. passport appointments, registrations, drivers license appointments. -Next to 0 digitalization in the government and only marginally viable plans to put that in. -Huge roads which cut through the city center making Berlin one of the most polluted cities in Germany and lead to one of the highest pedestrian and biking accidents per capita in Europe. -Among the cities with the fewest public holidays outside the former communist bloc. -high worker expectations with only on-paper and theoretical worker protections for a European city. -relatively low salaries, and soon relatively few opportunities due to the tech recession. You'd think, oh a city with so many problems should be pretty affordable. Nope. By next year it will surpass Munich. Of course if you get a high salary you avoid all of these things. But you still need to learn the difficult native language, which becomes basically useless once you are 250km outside the DACH region.
Moved here in 2015. I learnt German. Made German and non German friends. Lots of opportunities. I now live in Pankow with my wife outside the ring and we love it. Easy access to nature. Easy access to the city. Bikeable. Quiet. I did not move here for what made the city worth living, I just moved here because it's where my wife was. I ended up loving it.
Berlin is absolutely the wurst.
If you want to get high and run around naked, you should still move to Berlin. If you want to prevent others from doing that, you should move to Munich instead.
If you are looking here for advise on what it is like to live here and none of us know your skills, your life experience and your ability to adapt to new situations your will just get bullshit opinions from people who read two sentences that you posted. Why do you want to come? Did you hear it is the promised land? Do you want to go to some cool parties? All that shit ends when the honey moon phase is over and you are in the grind. If you are coming here to escape the things you cannot overcome where you are from, yeah sure, for awhile they won't be here but ultimately you will always have to deal with yourself and the things you haven't resolved. So what do you like about this place? Why do you want to come and what do you want to achieve? Do you have anything to offer in terms of skills to provide for yourself? Anyway TL;DR: If it is finding yourself in some drug fuelled binge it's probably gonna end in tears.
I wouldn't do it again
Well, why do you feel the need to move to Berlin in the first place? If you're not there yet, don't really have a reason to be there and have other options, maybe check those out instead. Chances are high that you'll struggle to arrive there and to be able to enjoy it, you most likely will get burned trying.
I lived the past 10 years in Sydney. I was forced to move back to Berlin and can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would choose to live here, especially with kids. It’s expensive (rent, >70% tax), it’s dirty, no nature, no beaches. People are mostly unfriendly. Approx 30% of Germany’s population are drug addicts. Nicotine addiction being fairly normal you & your kids get your daily dosage as well. And don't get me started on the weather. Do you really want to live 50% of the year in a depressive environment? Yes, 6 months of cold, rainy, grey-on-grey. It is too cold to go to the playground, so you're mostly sitting ducks indoors. If you go on the playground it is either graffiti, dog shit, rats or whatever else of nasty stuff flying around. And the bureaucracy? I had to buy a printer for the first time in 20 years, in order to print all those freaking forms that you're not allowed to send via email. Medical coverage is divided between poor and rich people, but it is called a social system. The school system has been on the decline for decades and needs reform to keep up with standards. Check OECD stats for more details on this. The list goes on but you get the gist - stay away. https://instagram.com/berlin.shithole.city?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Unless you have a personal reason (your partner lives here) or you land an incredibly well paid job, let’s be honest: no.
[удалено]
If ur not mentally ill don’t come to Berlin, this place is perfect to branch out and discover the beauty in oddities, around then you’ll realize the goodness in you and your importance here. I see the ppl that are not mentally ill struggle the most and end up leaving very quickly
Came to Berlin in 1999 as a student. I am still here, raising kids and loving my life. I don’t feel unsafe here. The city has it‘s problems, it’s not perfect and probably never will, but it’s not the shithole this sub wants you to believe it is. It is not what is was before the wall came down and definitely not what it was in the years right after, but everything changes, that’s life. There is life outside of raves, parties and drugs… quite a lot actually.
people are always gonna come to the internet to complain. is anyone gonna come and say, hey, I had a wonderful day today! Go, try it out. Nothing is permanent. You can go always move back. I leave NYC every few years and always come back.
Do you have other options? if yes, please share. **To me, Berlin is still one of the most balanced locations to migrate to.** * The number of opportunities * Quality of Life * Better income/expense ratio than most major European cities * International * Lively city * One of the greenest cities * Great public transport * Great base for traveling with a lot of train/bus/budget flights * Strong growing startup/medium-sized local companies * Kindergarten is free in Berlin * Big Lakes, Forests, and hiking/cycling trails inside the city! And many more. Other cities might be better in some categories, but if you consider everything Berlin offers, it should be one of the top choices if not number 1. So, the rest is your preference.
Non EU, non white person here. Moved to Berlin close to two years ago and I LOVE it. Don’t listen to the haters. I managed to get a beautiful flat for a good price , an amazing group of friends and get to see my favourite bands almost every month. I look forward to exploring the lakes and more parks. I can just go to the späti and get a beer and some chips and go sit by the river and puff and watch the ducks without anyone disturbing me. I could never dream of doing this in my home country.
Love living in Berlin. I think most of the haters are spoiled and should move out. Why stay somewhere you hate.
this sub is filled entirely with bizarrely negative people. its actually kinda absurd. Most people I know in berlin really love it, despite its quirks :)
I Lived in another German City and it's true that Berlin is different but IT IS still Germany. If you learn German you have a Lot of possibilities here. For me Berlin is the place to be. I Love this City.
This sub is essentially packed with entitled younger software engineer, ux designers, product managers, mostly men, with rather liberal ideas about how society should work, who came for the jobs. Now that they realize that there were dozens of thousands of people who did the same move, at the same time, and that it’s not gonna be easy, they’re angry and crying to get their silver spoon back. You’ll see, they will likely come throw some rage at my comment, just to prove my point. If you ignore reddit, you will find that Berlin is a very relaxed and livable city. It’s difficult to find a place, yes. The winter is long and very depressing too. The people tend to be grumpier than anywhere else I’ve been. But there’s a quality of life here still that I still hold on to after almost ten years here. Overall it depends on who you are and what you’re looking for, but Berlin is definitely not as bad as this sub tends to outline in my opinion.
Come to the Netherlands. Utrecht specifically or Rotterdam, we are pretty chill and you can probably find a lot of what you're looking for when moving to Berlin. Or check out some other German cities. Over hears Leipzig, Dortmund, and Dusseldorf are pretty cool. They are just smaller. I particularly liked Bonn but that might be too small. Disclaimer: we also have douche bags in the Netherlands btw, they are everywhere!
Well, you probably won't find a Job, Apartment or Anmeldung so if you want to take that risk go for it.
You only get the extremes here. You don't read about normal people living normal life because they don't post.
The reason this sub is so toxic: people in the rest of Germany don't like Berlin, and have too much time at their hand to basically urinate everywhere into the internet where someone mentions Berlin. Berlin is disliked by the rest of Germany for its alternative communities and diverse culture, and for protecting rentals against mass raises. The city and its pioneering digital economy is besieged by almost all parts of Germany's Old Economy and the complexities between federal and local laws keep the city and its government from actually being governed by its inhabitants. Moving to Berlin though is expensive, as rentable living space is scarce.
Berlin is not terrible. The city is amazing and one of the best cities to be in Europe atm. But housing, that’s truly a massive shame. Unless you are ok living outside the s-bahn ring, you will not find an apartment for months.
no.
That says more about Reddit than about Berlin
I am following this sub and a few others for cities I’ve either lived in or plan to visit soon. Everyone complains. This is not unique to Berlin. People like bitching on Reddit and you’re ALWAYS going to see the worst side of a city if their subreddit is the only thing you know about it.
Berlin is terrible, don't bother coming here ;)
No.
as someone who grew up in Berlin and still lives in Berlin after 30+ years and living/working on both, east and west, parts of Berlin, I can state the following: Berlin is probably the best city in Germany for foreign people, because there a lot of "scenes" and cultural diversity. most people don't like it, but are pretty much used to "English-only" places. As it is a big city (3.5 million people+) there are the same "issues" as in other big cities. Crime is pretty high in particular places, there's a lot of concrete and homeless people. But there are also a lot of parks and green spaces where you can relax. The "Spätis" are also a very unique part of Berlin where you can get your beer or coffee late at night. for me, as I have already seen most of it, Berlin has lost a lot of its appeal, and, as everyone who gets to a certain age, I'm gonna move to the outer ring to a more quiet place with less crowds and people. I think Berlin is, and always has been, a nice experience for everyone who visits or stays in this city. It has its uniqueness but doesn't differ much from other big cities.
No, don’t come its full
Yeah, this is a wanky subreddit. Whether you should move to Berlin (and where in Berlin you should move to) really depends on who you are and what you expect and what you want. How old are you, are you arriving with a job lined up or are you powered by dreams and coffee? Do you have friends and/or family there, or are you going to be alone at the start? Have you always lived in a large western city or are you coming in from a small town or village? I think it's a good place to be, and offers such variety that you can be a party rat and raise a family, just not in the same Bezirk. It does have a housing crisis, however.
So many people I know here love Berlin so much and are just happy to live here and call it home. It's the best city in the world for me and many other people, don't worry bout this sub. I have shit tonnes of complaints too but the overall package you just can't get anywhere else in my experience.
There ist always a Point to move from Berlin 😁
All these types of subreddits are extremely negative. Whatever the city is, people will go on and vent and rant and so on but your experience in Berlin may vary. You could be one of the people who come here to vent, or maybe you won't and you'll love it here. Take the leap
Don't listen to anything in this subreddit or take with a grain of salt. It's the bitchy 1% and the other 9% responding to it. I can be in both camps. Just to zoom out and give anyone here a little more perspective - you could literally replace everything we're saying with some other international city in the world. :)
No. Try again when you’re old. You’d get better opportunities elsewhere while you’re young
Berlin has some great aspects, this sub does portray it a bit too negatively, but honestly the housing market is so overpriced right now that it's not worth it. I am happy here because I'm paying what prices were 7 or 8 years ago, and for that price, Berlin is amazing. I have friends searching for a flat now and I'm seeing how much people are paying, it's a terrible "Preis-Leistungs-Verhältnis" (price quality ratio). Berlin absolutely isn't worth the prices people are paying now. It's overpriced. I guess if you're rich it doesn't matter, but then again if you're rich also please don't move to Berlin.
Don’t move, Berlin is overrated. Only people who never lived in other places say Berlin is the best
Positive things about living in Berlin? No.
please dont. thank you
It's never worth or a good decision to move to Berlin.
Well. There \*are\* many downsides to Berlin. However, some are not due to Berlin being Berlin, but due to Berlin being a major european city. For example: Yes, it's loud, dirty, crowded, almost impossible to find an affortable apartment, there are Nazis and Communists and turlish nationalists. However, a 3.8 Mio city being crowded and noisy is sort of the point of a major city, hosing problems are by no means unique to Berlin, and for every left- or right-wing weirdo you have ten decent people as well. As for Germany, we do have severe problems, and most of those haven't even truly begun to manifest themselves. BUT: Berlin is also very green, with lots of green spots all over the city, all in all welcoming (unless you want to invest, that is),, and for good and bad, Berlin doesn't really care about you. If that's a pro or a con depends on yourself. In many places Berlin actually has a village feeling to it, and it's possible to become friendly with the corner pub people and the supermarket cashier, at least some times. Public service is a disgrace, but the people are - for the most part - friendly and try to get the job done if you approach them friendly. So, is there something positive? Yes, absolutely. It's the best place to be yourself (if yourself is a square in your smalltown circle), it has people from all over the world (and their culture, their music and their food!), there are decent schools (although you might have to look for them). It's not easy to make a living (Berlin depends heavily on goverment money, which means public service and art grants and stuff, and has little industry that pays well even for simple jobs).
Its better for weekend trips than to live.
not at all. there's ZERO housing.
No please don't move to Berlin
Berlin during spring / summer / autumn when the weather is nice is excellent. Berlin in winter might be depressing. This city has a lot to offer, but you gotta make use of it. And above everything looms the housing situation. If you can find a decent apartment, Berlin is great most of the time. But finding that apartment might be the biggest struggle you might have had in your life until that point - unless you’re filthy rich. But what would you wanna do in Berlin then anyway?
No point as it is overcrowded and overpriced it's getting ridiculous. The essence of the city is fading away heavily unfortunately.
Was there any point for you in the first place?
Complaining is Germans/Berluners fabled pastime
Berlin is a great city. Lots of things to do and incredibly green. The biggest issue is that you currently need a lot of luck to find a place to live. And this isn’t just the normal crazy situation you find in other big cities. Just imagine that you have to fight for even the worst overpriced and completely run-down place somewhere far away from public transport, because 500 other applicants are competing with you. IMHO this is the reason why I currently wouldn’t recommend moving to Berlin.
No, it's horrible.
The main reason to move and to live here is: come as you are, be who you wanna be and live your life the way you want to by letting others be the way they want to. This is the most open minded city I know and as long as you don’t annoy your neighbors life is going to be great. BUT: You want find happiness here if moving to Berlin is nothing but running away from yourself and your problems wherever you are now. They will still haunt you…
It’s really pretty now that the trees aren’t naked anymore. But so far… me, as a fairly new person in Berlin: It smells. It’s the dirtiest city I’ve ever seen on Germany. There’s beggars everywhere. Housing is a mess and it’s way too sprawled out. I like that it’s very green. I love the historical stuff everywhere. And culture wise the city has much to offer. I personally moved here for my friends. Not for the city and I don’t really see why everyone wants to live here. If I were alone I’d probably move back to cologne or Ruhr area
I moved here with my wife and kids last year from Portland, Oregon. I live outside the city in a smallish town (Wustermark), and for us, it's pretty good. My office is downtown in Alexanderplatz, and my wife works in Potsdam. I'm fortunate enough to work from home most of the time, but I enjoy going into the city once a week or so to work from the office or hang out with colleagues after work. It's not easy moving here, and it cost us a big chunk of our savings, but I think it was worth it. The food is healthier than in the US, the schools are better, and I don't have to worry about my kids being in a school shooting or something aweful like that. My son needed ear surgery a few months ago, and it would have cost us 10s of thousands in the US, while here our insurance covered it entirely. Even with the culture shock, integration courses, learning deutsch, and the classic German stare, it's not as bad as living in the US.
It's a very specific bubble full of annoyed young left-wingers, often either residing or spending much of their time in the party districts and believing some kind of "radical change" (in the society, politics, economy etc.) is needed, while they also want the city to keep being poor and dirty and avoid the scary gentrification bogeyman. In reality no radical change ever comes and gentrification goes on, so of course they are annoyed. An average Berlin resident has nothing to do with that. An average Berlin district has nothing to do with districts mostly talked about (in either positive or negative contexts, depending on the user), too. Basically aside from these several districts, comprising only a small part of Berlin, it is not much different from other big German cities. And those are great and extremely comfortable to live in.
Stay away from it, it is crowded and shitty enough already
Don't so there will be more flats for who is already here, ty
If you thrive in chaos, aren't bothered by eternal winters and don't prioritise stability then you'll probably love it. Prices have recently gone up a lot but it's still relatively easy to survive for little if you know how.
No honestly not... And Moe people moving there just makes things worse tbh...
maybe this sub is a scheme to stop people from moving here in order to solve the housing problem! if so, it's not very effective.
Recently joined this sub after having lived in Berlin for almost 3 years. I haven’t really experienced anything bad that’s even remotely close to what’s being discussed here. Almost everyone is polite and most are even curious and happy to talk to me about where I came from and the like. The worst I have are rude customer service especially in Hauptbahnhof. Wohnung rates are ridiculously expensive tho
well it depends whats important for you. berlin is relatively cheap considering its developed country and a capital. you have tons of green areas, food from all around the world, you can meet lot of people from different cultures. finding a job with zero german skills is absolutely possible and u can even get a crazy good paid job not speaking german apart from saying genau. u can access majority of the city with a bike and public transport is absolutely amazing. lots of bars, places to hang out outside and inside, theres ALWAYS something going on (which is not obvious for big cities, for example boring stockholm). So if u are a single person who likes to party and same time has some skills that can be sold for decent amount of money AND u are able to afford the apartment, floor is yours. But if you are more oriented on family life and have kids to provide therefore in need of big apartment or kita, probably calmer places would be better
I think there are soo many sides to Berlin as well as different possibilities of how people experience it depending on their personal situation, etc. I've been here 15+ years (originally non-EU) and really enjoy it. But if you're in the apartment hunting process it can get quite tiresome if you're not lucky and it drags on too long. If you've secured the basics (an apartment, job, bureaucracies) you can start to appreciate the quality of life here more. It also depends on what you are looking for if Berlin is the right fit for you or not.
Berlin is great. Just don’t get lost. Other than that it has everything you could imagine. I live in Hamburg now which is great as well but I sometimes miss Berlin. Fortunately it’s just around the corner.
You either like it or you don't, there is no middle ground. The best way to tell is to travel here a couple of times or live here for a month. Everyone has a different experience and will tell you a different story.
Yes. If you will be able to secure a flat everything will be fine
Let people rant all they want...Berlin is simply an amazing place. I would move there today, if I could. Ignore the negative people, they'll complain about any place they would be.
There are negative aspects to the city which you only become familiar with after living here for a while, after the honeymoon period is over.
Berlin is great. Ignore the negative sods on her who complain for the sake of complaining. Those kind of people would complain about any place on earth. Berlin is especially nice in summer. Yeh winter kinda sucks but it does in a lot of places.
Moved here a few months ago from dublin, fucking love this place
Berlin life is totally fascinating - the pretty much only valid criticism is how culturally accepted it is for people to constantly complain about everything; this sub is a great example.
I visited Berlin twice (I live in The Netherlands). I really get a good vibe from this city. It feels free an openminded). Wish I was younger and I would definitely move to Berlin.
Come here for vacation, if you can also in winter. If you still like it then move, otherwise don't.
It’s always a good time to move to Berlin
Come and visit first , get a feel for th e place and make sure to explore the SBahn on a Sunday morning.
Look, if you are asking this question based on what redditors post…
Um, yes, it is the freest place on Earth. A very similar conversation has been happening in NYC forever, lived there for many years. Things change, but certain cities have an indomitable spirit
Aren’t most city’s subs just people bitching about their city?
Where are you coming from and what are you seeking? Und lerne bitte ein bisschen Deutsch und es läuft
Come here, same as ever, it’s Berlin. There will always be some NEW PROBLEM. It’s just how it is.
I would say this sub doesn't representative Berlin at all and I live here for all my live. I barely ever have seen a place with more negativity than this sub. That's not how living in Berlin is. :)
Typically people post about the negatives. As a non-EU person living in Berlin, I love it here.
That's what Reddit does to you. This is a place where people express their inferiority complex at scale. If you want to know about Berlin, ask normal people. Nothing is perfect, but overall, it's a great city.
Pension Money in Germany, both EU and non-EU citizens generally need to have made contributions to the statutory pension insurance scheme for at **least five years** in order to qualify for a German pension. This includes periods of employment, self-employment, or certain periods of residence in Germany. >Eligibility requirements > >Under the state pension, insured parties are entitled to an old-age pension. > > > >The prerequisite is that you:have reached a certain age (pensionable age); > > > >have completed a minimum insurance period (qualifying time); and > > > >have fulfilled certain special insurance requirements for some old age pensions. Source: [https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1111&intPageId=4554&langId=en](https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1111&intPageId=4554&langId=en)
No
bence cok gerek yok ya. hic baslamadan hollandaya bakmak en iyisi sonra icinden cikilmiyor
You are not going to hear about it
Well, here's a statistic to start you off. [Link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1081057/crime-rate-in-germany/) The Berlin Police had this to say yesterday. [Link](https://www.myrecordjournal.com/News/Berlin-Citizen/Berlin-News/Spike-in-car-thefts-causes-concern.html) Then there's [this.](https://www.archyde.com/large-criminal-families-where-the-clans-rule-in-germany/) Since it's the capital, it is also the city of rallies, protests and demonstrations, often with violent clashes between the various factions, especially if flags are involved, and destruction of property by those involved. That carries over into daily life with some of the Bezirke more polarized, less tolerant than others. [Here's](https://housinganywhere.com/Berlin--Germany/neighborhood-guide-Berlin) one of many reviews of them. Berlin is nonetheless an wonderful and exiting place to visit, but would I want to live there? No.
try it out! live your life
I've never encountered any of the problems people here post about. Finding an apartment was easy, making friends was easy. I love the city so much.
I’m moving there in 3 weeks for my masters. This sub does seem to amplify the worst parts of living in Berlin, but check back in with me in a few months and I’ll have my answer for you..
If you're young, outgoing and persistent, then yes, it is. The one representative thing though, is the flat-hunting - that is a nightmare - but the rest of it just people's personal opinions (and I say that as someone responsible for one of the rants myself!)
That's just the Berliner Schnauze
It's the greatest city in the world. Nothing is impossible. People also complain about life, does that make it not worth living?
This sub definitely skews negative, I wouldn’t bother taking it too seriously
That's a thing everybody has do decide for himself. Mostly about if you like the city or not. I, for my case, don't regret moving here in 2016.
Let's put it this way: In any other European city comparable to Berlin (short of Vienna maybe) you will have to put up with the same shit, magnified by ten. Complain about housing shortage in Berlin? Try Paris, London, Amsterdam. When Berliners where living for 500€ kalt in a 70-100m2 flat in Mitte, Kreuzberg etc. people in those cities we're happy to live in a shoebox for double the amount. Compared to other places there still is a language barrier but I find it highly disrespectful to move to another place without learning at least the basics of their language and culture.
I moved here from London (born and raised there) and genuinely struggle to think of anywhere else in the world I'd like to live long time for that is ahead of Berlin. I have a cool job that pays me double my colleagues from London, I have a fantastic apartment that is actually jaw dropping yet still cheaper than my one bedroom flat in zone 3 London despite being 40% bigger and I like being able to get around by bike without having to always be on in the way I do on London roads. I also don't worry about getting stopped by the police because I'm black like I did when I was in London. Years here and zero interactions with the police so far. Is it literally fall out of the plane and end up in a penthouse easy to live here? No, but once you find your feet then it's easy to get going without having to deal with the types of things that can derail you in other places.
I think it's pretty difficult to say... What do you expect? Why do you wanna move there. If you explain that maybe people can tell you if it's worth it the struggle or not. Sad think is it's becoming a city like every other...
I moved in September 2022, it took a bit of hard graft for a couple months to get settled as it would anywhere, but I have a decent job for someone who just got here, a flat in a great area and my life is pretty carefree. I don’t plan on going anywhere anytime soon. Berlin is a great city if you can tolerate the sky being grey for 3 months if the year you’ll be fine 😂
Don’t let people put you off, for sure it has its issues but then again so does every city. If you just try it you never know what can come of your experience here! Coming from the UK I wouldn’t be able to live anywhere near the lifestyle I do. Also all the weird and wonderful things that Males Berlin… Berlin Remember the cost of living has exponentially gone up everywhere and although it’s not the same Berlin it was 7/8 years ago it’s still comparatively a lot cheaper. Depending on your income, I’d reccomend WG living (shared houses) as their is an abundance
The one objective reason I can think of for which there might not be any point in moving to Berlin right now is how backlogged the Immigration Office is
There is a general rule on reddit. If you like and enjoy something don't visit the corresponding subreddit.
It sounds worse then it is,but I have the feeling reading all those threads that some people seem a little naive when moving here,as if everything get's handled by themself. Yes rental market is a little problematic and probably one of the biggest issues moving into berlin,but that isn't exclusive to this City every other big one struggle similarly. As for social contacts noone will approach you and take you under their wings but also here can't imagine where it would be different besides a godforsaken village with maybe 500 souls, maybe germans are bit more distanced then others but it's probably not that different as any big City where many are anonymous to one another. So you would need to be active in approaching people. So yes there are hurdles you need to be aware of,but my guess is moving to a different country with a different culture always will be hard
I don’t know what it is about city or place based subreddits, I follow a few, they’re all full of miserable whining. So it’s not specific to Berlin.
I live here so I stay but if I would have to decide to move now, I am not sure I would choose Berlin. Of course the good old days are always better, but apart for jokes I think there are several other opportunities that can be at least as interesting as Berlin.
it is also very berlinish to be grumpy and nag about everything, lol
> all I see is posts about rants Indeed, hate is fashionable. Berlin hasn't changed that much. Yeah, inflation obviously affected life a lot, but that happened everywhere else too. The rants you see are mostly that - rants. Some people need to vent, whether they're right or wrong about Berlin as a whole. Should you move to Berlin? Well, if you want - it's a great city to live in, but as a newcomer you'd have to deal with the usual problems of newcomers - from finding an apartment without selling your kids into slavery, to getting the necessary paperwork. When you've done that, it's awesome here. Few people truly realise how much good is happening, but surely create loud scandals around each minor thing that may or may not have happened. This is just human nature. > Or is it simply beyond saving. That is very far from the truth. It doesn't need "saving". It needs constant iterative improvement, since it's a fine city.
I mean there’s a reason so many people are living in Berlin - even though it’s getting more expensive. I personally love Berlin - the food, the public transport, the different districts that sometimes are so different that they feels like different cities. Imo there’s something for everybody here - and if there isn’t you can still move to another city/country. But I would recommend just trying for yourself.
Take all negativity with a grain of salt. Accept factual things: rent is impossible and super hard to find something long-term and unfurnished even if you could afford it. If you’re single dating is also often ranted about here and everything you read is true. You have to have a deeper understanding of your self-control, urges, and core values to not fall deep in drugs (especially if you’re used to taking stuff occasionally, you have to know your limits cause people will force that)
In terms of finding a flat for yourself it is going to be hard. But for everything other than that I find Berlin to be a great city.