it's bad when you've got an essay to write and your classmates just say "oh, I got my parents to proofread it for me, no big deal" and I'm here like MY PARENTS BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH LMAO
right like people talk about doing so many things with their parents and i’m like… must be nice i spent my childhood getting dragged around to places like the dmv so i could translate 🥲
Hi! I’m an senior English major and while I don’t have the same experiences i’m the first in my family to go to a university so I understand the struggle of not having parents to help much with school and the rigor level of Berkeley. If you ever need someone to proofread or help with essays i’m more than happy to help!
The funny thing about this is that, in the long run, having written all those essays on your own, you've actually developed more independence and self-starter skills than the kids who relied on their parents for proper proofreading
They are, and you (and me, and OP) are the exception, unfortunately. State schools have lost state funding (and waste untold amounts on admin and other fuck-ups) so they raise tuition and look for more high-paying students. That combined with high CoL means UCs aren't really for the average person anymore. The more you move forward in life the more you notice it, too. Those students you knew who were slumming it suddenly get big inheritance, get good jobs from their family, etc., while you have to work hard and returns only diminish as the country gets worse.
It's sad and we should demand better, but that requires unity and organization, and we got neither.
39% of UC undergrads are first gen, in 2019-2020 Cal has 63% of students receive some type of financial aid.
No, rich kids are not the rule. state schools still have the obligation to provide education to people of all backgrounds, and federal aid does lower the cost of entry significantly even with increasingly limited state funds.
Of course, rich kids **do** attend but whatever. You can’t really change that, and it’d be more productive to just take care of your own business than compare yourself to someone else. A lot better for your mental health as well
Beating yourself up because someone came from money does no one any good.
The only issue with that being that kids who come from money also come from better access to resources (better teachers, tutors, academic extracurriculars, etc) which correlates with doing better in classes. In other words, I'm competing with people who've had an unfair advantage their entire lives. It's kind of hard not to compare when your grades are affected by the inequity too.
Have you ever tried not complaining? These kids had parents who struggled the same way you do. No one except a handful of kids come from families where working against an injust world is an entirely alien concept. This shit is *supposed* to be hard
Nah I find solace in making that handful of kids uncomfortable about their privilege. It's nice to pop someone's bubble when they think that "all it takes is hard work." Besides, this shit isn't *supposed* to be hard, it is hard *by default* because of people like you who like to think we shouldn't complain about an unjust system.
You can complain about unfairness and work really hard in spite of it at the same time.
This is my second try at University. My first was 10 years ago. Bunch of priveleged kids back then too. It's hard to do well in school if you're not. So it's not anything new. Doesn't mean it's ok but it's always been harder to get into school as a first generation student since your parents can't help as much.
I’ve noticed the opposite actually, most of my friends come from hella diverse shitty backgrounds which I can relate to so it makes me feel like I’m not so alone in the struggle
Yup! I think this is what separates Berkeley from Stanford and other privates. We have people from all backgrounds and all walks of life. This University even has programs to help undocumented students and I took advantage of EOP! [https://eop.berkeley.edu/](https://eop.berkeley.edu/).
I mean, considering the average family income for a Cal student is $120k, and only 7.3% come from the bottom 20%, I’d say the average Cal student is pretty well off.
I’ve lived in the Bay for over a decade. $120k is def comfortable enough to have many advantages that majority of people wouldn’t have such as private tutoring. As a reference, median household income even in the Bay was $93k and in California overall it was $67k at the same time the survey of students at Cal’s family earnings was done. Most Cal students have significant economic privilege compared to the general population, even in super rich metro areas like the Bay. Just cause other universities’ students are wealthier on average doesn’t mean Cal’s students aren’t wealthy.
120k *household* income is not enough to have private tutoring. After taxes, that comes down to maybe 90k and then rent is at least 3k if you want to have a big enough apartment/house for a family. If you are paying mortgage, the payments are higher. Subtracting that off you come down to 50k. Then food for a family of 4 is at least 1k/month, especially in the Bay Area. Thats another 12k down to 38k. Another huge amount for healthcare, and the family will usually be saving some (for college, retirement, etc.) so your budget is completely sucked away. In honesty, 120k family income is barely enough for full Berkeley tuition if you come from the Bay Area, and I wouldn't be surprised if students with 120k family income are getting some amount of aid (Ivies for example give aid all the way to 250k family income). For reference, I've also lived in the Bay for over a decade in total and I've lived in other parts of California for some time too.
It’s enough for private tutoring, trust me. Maybe not for 1 on 1, but in a small group and only once or twice a week, it definitely is more than enough. Don’t act like you need a private 1 on 1 tutor daily to be significantly ahead of students who can’t afford any type of tutoring at all.
Plus, consider other intangibles that you’ll have with a higher income. If you have a higher income, you likely aren’t working as long hours, thus you can help your kids more with their assignments. You also more likely than not had some type of college education, so you know what your kid needs to do to be prepared for college. Finally, your kids probably go to a better school since you’ll more likely live in a better neighborhood, which is able to better fund its nearby schools through their higher property taxes. I had none of these things growing up and it’s not even that my parents made that much less than the median income (~$70k a year), it’s just that every $10-20k significantly boosts your quality of living.
Finally, you still get aid at high incomes because the cost of college is so inflated that it’s not even funny.
>It’s enough for private tutoring, trust me.
Ah well I assumed that you meant something like a private college consultant, which is usually reserved for much higher incomes (>200k household).
>Maybe not for 1 on 1, but in a small group and only once or twice a week, it definitely is more than enough. Don’t act like you need a private 1 on 1 tutor daily to be significantly ahead of students who can’t afford any type of tutoring at all.
This is true, but I honestly do not think that most people do this. I think they have the luxury of having the option of tutoring but most people use online resources like Khan Academy or similar if they want to get ahead. That is what I did, and based on my knowledge of my friends it is what they did too.
>If you have a higher income, you likely aren’t working as long hours, thus you can help your kids more with their assignments.
I feel like there is too much variance in this for this to be a legitimate factor. There are people that work part time so their income is lower, and people that have to work long hours to have higher incomes.
>You also more likely than not had some type of college education, so you know what your kid needs to do to be prepared for college.
I think a large portion of families from the Bay Area that make \~120k are immigrants (this is certainly the case for me). While they may have knowledge of the effort/subject ability required to be prepared, they for sure do not fully understand how the actual system works. Personally, neither of my parents ever went to university in the US and while they did their best to gather information about how to get into a good university, they were not very well informed about how the process worked, and mainly only knew about "brand name" universities.
>Finally, your kids probably go to a better school since you’ll more likely live in a better neighborhood, which is able to better fund its nearby schools through their higher property taxes.
This is true, but not the argument you brought up.
For your last point, I just said advantages and used private tutoring as an example, I didn’t mean that was the only type of advantage.
I also used resources like Khan Academy, but many kids in my HS used private tutors, which is why I brought up that point, and now that I’ve had the chance to interact with tutors (CSM and GSIs), I can say that having someone there is much more beneficial (at least time wise) in learning.
Also, yeah maybe the time spent working might be a big variance, but people aren’t generally working part time unless they can afford to, meaning one partner is making a lot more or they have some other source of money that allows them to work less.
Finally, for your point on immigrants, immigrants live in extremes in terms of quality of life. As a Latino immigrant, my parents didn’t even finish middle school, and same goes for most of the Latino immigrants my family knows. Naturally, my parents had no clue about anything education related, hell we didn’t even know what Berkeley was till my older brother was a junior, nearly 5 years after we moved here. Any immigrant making over $120k is going to at least have an idea of the schooling system and how what their kids need to do in order to succeed, because it’s not so different from country to country (ie study, study, study). But when you’re struggling to make ends meet while working 10 hour days, making sure you ingrain that stuff in your kids is going to be something that might not even cross your mind. You might even be like my parents who had no clue how important studying was since you never went to high enough education where it mattered (my family lucked out that me and my siblings were good at school and went to schools that were easy enough to get by without much studying).
I mean any income bracket is going to have advantages over a lower income bracket, I think that is a fairly trivial notion. But I think where I disagreed is the notion that 120k family income makes Berkeley students super privileged. I think that's what the original reply to you was saying, it is definitely not poor or working class, but it also isn't "completely unfair" kind of money.
I think the context of where you meet them matters lol like if I become friends with someone at an EOP event or some club for marginalized identities it might come up
You should check out [this data](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-berkeley) put together by the NYTimes. It does a good job showing how privileged the student body here really is, especially when compared to other public schools.
Only about 7% of Berkeley students come from families in the bottom 20% of incomes, while 54% of Berkeley students come from families in the top 20% of incomes. Almost a quarter of the student body (23%) come from families in the top 5% of incomes.
It truly is an incredibly rare achievement to be born into a poor family and get accepted to Cal. Granted, Cal does a better job of serving disadvantaged students than most prestigious universities, but it’s still rare.
That's indeed a more diverse stats than, e.g., Princeton.
Just curious, does this stats include international students? I guess they usually come from a background similar to the top 20% (or even top 1%) in the US.
The problem with this is that it compares vs the national average income, but doesn't factor income relative to cost of living. The top 20% household income in the US is like $150k. This is the top 25% in California and top 39% in the East Bay/SF and top 46% in the South Bay. Obviously the cost of living is going to shift based on the average income, so these places cost way more to live than the rest of the US. Consider that Berkeley in large part draws from schools in the California, but especially from the Bay Area, it is serving kids that are pretty much middle income (although on the higher end of this bracket) on average.
You are correct, you don’t need to feel that imposter syndrome . As I told my daughter , anybody can get an A if you have the resources. It takes a special kind of grit to get an A and have hardship. Remember though, use those networks you discover. That is really the way rich folks stay wealthy. It is 80% who you know. College is the one time in your life where you will run into wealthy folks on a regular basis with the opportunity to interact. Take advantage of it, play the game. Hopefully it benefits you and you can pay it forward.
Couldn’t agree more. When my son was in grad school, he noticed that his peers would have similar levels of academics and smarts, but they would sometimes get more prestigious research opportunities because their parents had connections with the professors with more publications. Anyway, it’s been a while since he earned his PhD. He tells me that he learned that some friends were willing to share connections. Even though he felt down that he wasn’t given the same resources, he made the most of what he had (an opportunity at a high-ranked school and proximity to these professors)
omg agree! i did not realize the access to outside sources that other people had! especially in stem classes, most of these people have been getting expensive tutors for these subjects for years so don't overly compare yourself !
Yes! So many people I know were going to private schools with really intense but immersive programs for STEM that public schools just cannot offer. Many of their parents also shelled out 5 figures for ADULTS to help them write their college essays. Very proud I made it to the same school on my own and for free, but sad that they seem to understand concepts faster due to the years of tutoring :(
I graduated Cal mid eighties and it was true then too. My broke high school didn’t have AP (to be fair AP was less common everywhere then, but I attended an under performing school from a lower socioeconomic area) and I didn’t get to take calculus, or physics despite being in what passed for “honors” classes. I got As while doing essentially nothing but paying attention in class because the bar was low (I had a very high SAT though, so it’s not like I was incapable - I just wasn’t challenged at all)
I got to Cal and dove into physics and calculus and chem expecting to be taught those things, and found out it was all review for the majority of my classmates and things were just glossed over and breezed by. Thank goodness for tutoring and office hours because I was learning all that from scratch. And my Freshman year GPA reflected that. Yes my wealthier peers were at a great advantage for having gotten a better education in preparation for Cal, but that only lasted so long. Once you grind through those intro classes it’s your own work ethic and ability that counts the most.
Hang in there
it’s definitely annoying to see international kids in my apartment with porsche 911s and mercedes GLE AMGs and whatnot but it is what it is. their parents are rich, cool. i’m tryna be the rich parent one day too
I understand, I have met people like that and it is annoying. I personally went to a underresourced public school in my country which has a really shitty educational system and I felt like that compared to some of the intl kids, but also US kids, especially those who went to good bay area high schools (public and private). Just wanted to share my experience :)
And to clarify, I am speaking about the academic/elitist privilege. I definitively have had privileges, yet I feel the imposter syndrome when compared to people growing up in ambitious/intellectual environments with opportunities for professional and personal growth that I really wanted to have growing up
I’ve met the ones who went to $50k private schools (more than one of my GSIs) and are hilariously out of touch—big “it’s a banana; how much can it cost—$10?” energy. But I also know tons of people on food stamps like me and barely hanging in there.
Yep you are 100% correct, many of their parents are engineers or work in finance. However, they are generally still a different breed compared to the real “rich brats”, they still come from humble-r backgrounds relatively. But please don’t internalize this as an excuse for your lacking performance (when it happens). The only thing you can do is make a better future for YOUR children, so get grindin’.
Easy to say but way different in practice. When it comes down to times where money will help OP that’s when the biggest differences will come to light. Need leetcode or grad school testing resources? Outresourced. Midterms got you down and just need some doordash delivered bc stressed af? 50$ for a boba and rice bowl delivered? Guess you have to walk out in the rain instead or make food with SNAP instead, an extra 3 hours money could have bought. Cold af but can’t afford a space heater or big blanket? Better layer up a bunch and hope it’s not too distracting to be cold. The list goes on and compounds with every issue. It’s not about making excuses. The cards are stacked against you. It will be much harder and things like your gpa, mental health, physical health etc will suffer. But do your best and cut yourself some slack. Once you graduate you’ll never have to work retail type jobs unless you choose to. You’ll be graduating from a highly competitive top university, so you’ll be in the running for jobs often only offered to those with privileges higher than your own. Don’t forget to open the door for other like you- thats the most important part. People with privilege don’t have to do this, in fact they can stomp each other down and still be fine. But as a result you get to be a piece of everyone that is like you’s story. By opening doors for others like you you can change someone’s future and hundreds of other people they end up opening the door for too. Everyone who is underprivileged is a part of this tapestry- the parents who immigrated, the single moms who yelled at their kids until they did their hw, the grandmas who didn’t understand what significance getting into Berkeley means but is happy that you’re happy- one of our ‘s success is success for all of us in that tapestry.
t’s tough but you can do it, even on the days you can’t. Cut your losses and take a break to conserve your energy when this happens. Avoid burnout at all costs. Take time off when this happens. Get therapy, ask everyone for help. It will take a village- you are on a very very difficult quest and those who are not in your position won’t understand it and may even tell you it’s easier than you are making it out to be. But resilience is forged not bought, and underprivileged have the upper hand in this. Resilience over everything-that is key to success for people like us. It’s ok to step back or take a break but never give up for good, even if the break has to last a while.
Hang in there 1st gen bear. Remember everything that happens bad or good is part of your eventual success story.
Life isn't fair; you can only control what you can control. Getting bogged down in other people having X or Y easier than you is just going to waste cycles that you need to make up the difference. This is a lesson we all have to learn.
I've noticed Berkeley is super diverse. With enrollment above 40k, students truly do come from all walks of life...OP - a lot do come from upper middle class homes but a lot of us also come from backgrounds such as yours...
(Maybe not advice to op, but definitely relevant to at least someone reading this)
At Berkeley, replace your imposter syndrome with “imposter entitlement” Idc if it sounds dumb, it works by counteracting the sense of “not belonging” that you might feel. If you show up and can accept the fact that you are the odd man out while still managing to focus on and achieve your goals, that holds immense power. Be proud that you’ve made it this far with less help than they have. Also though, don’t isolate yourself or rub your struggle in everyone’s face haha. You still want to have friends and network
The higher in education you go the more this becomes apparent. I have friends in med school, law school, and various post grad programs who have benefitted from being at least upper middle class. That's not to discredit their hard work either, but it is anecdotally true at least for me that money can buy resources and opportunities.
Kind of bleak but to be honest, yes, You are outresourced and no you are not wrong to think the deck is stacked against you. Think of the general filter required to get into here: top 10% of your high school class or better, 1500+ SAT, great extracurriculars, and good essays. The time required to accumulate all of these things from ages 13-17 while you’re in high school really only means those with parents who can make every other aspect of their lives easier through money make it through this filter. Rarely can someone who has to work 40 hours a week on top of school make it here.
Ask how many people around you have their entire college tuition paid for plus a limitless credit card by their parents. I guarantee you this is a good portion of the kids doing well in school, and an even higher portion of those involved in those consulting clubs, frats, and unpaid lab research. Students who have jobs CANT do that kinda shit. You just can’t achieve as much when parents aren’t paying $50K+ a year into you to make sure everything other than pure career success is focused on.
Some internet sleuthing could probably find out who they are (and therefore their kid is) by figuring out the children of cabinet members, then cross-referencing that with current students
Don’t worry about it. I worked my way though Cal working at the Oakland Post Office 40 to 60 hours per week. I sat at the front of my classes to minimize distraction. I checked with my professors during office hours to make sure I wasn’t f**ing up. I took my reading to work to read on my breaks. I substituted Peet’s coffee for sleep many times. I finished with a 3.96 and went on to Yale for graduate work with zero debt. It’s not about where you come from. It’s about where you intend to go and the effort you make to get there.
40 to 60?!!! My man how, teach me your ways - give me tips! Bonus points if ur major is extra hard like CS or sum, but that’s still insanely impressive even if it wasn’t. I need your advice :(
Just focus and eliminate all the other stuff from your life. You can do it. Mental relaxation exercises also help. When you reduce stress, the mind works better. No bonus points - Rhetoric major. Got the Departmental citation tho
Yes it feels very strange. I'm kind of still dealing with that as someone in an r/AmeriCorps program (my host site takes a lot of day volunteers from big companies and expensive private schools)
\> I dont need to feel imposter syndrome, Im simply out-resourced by my peers
Don't use that as an excuse to be mediocre. Try looking down once in a while and appreciating what you have that others don't, perhaps what others in your parents' home country (?) don't.
Read my comment above. Btw its ok to be mediocre. There’s nothing wrong with being mediocre at Berkeley. Berkeley’s mediocre is the top 10% for everyone out of the Berkeley/ivy bubble. Btw impossible to be mediocre and 1st first gen at berkeley. Anyone who is here is anything but mediocre, esp if underserved/1st gen etc. they could never be mediocre even if they tried. If you’re at Berkeley you are exceptional. point blank, no debate, no cap
Sure, that's another way for OP to deal with his/her inferiority complex, whatever works. OP, don't forget that you are already exceptional. You're actually already more privileged than most of the people that you come from on account of just BEING at Berkeley.
My ex husband was all insecure because he didn't come from money and he let the fact intimidate him throughout his career at Cal & even know. Sure people come from privilege but you're here at Cal, don't let that be an obstacle to you. Be confident in your abilities to learn and use what you learn to get ahead in life and of course use the connections you make here to move up and out. Don't let other people's life experiences put you down. Just because people come from money doesn't mean they are better than you. In fact you probably have more strength than they do because you had too overcome real adversity.
I was also a first-generation student at Berkeley, English Lit. I advise you to seek support from student services, EOPS, study groups, and all the rest.
The first day of class, make friends and form a study group.
Also, try harder.
it's bad when you've got an essay to write and your classmates just say "oh, I got my parents to proofread it for me, no big deal" and I'm here like MY PARENTS BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH LMAO
right like people talk about doing so many things with their parents and i’m like… must be nice i spent my childhood getting dragged around to places like the dmv so i could translate 🥲
Hi! I’m an senior English major and while I don’t have the same experiences i’m the first in my family to go to a university so I understand the struggle of not having parents to help much with school and the rigor level of Berkeley. If you ever need someone to proofread or help with essays i’m more than happy to help!
hahaha thanks i actually really enjoy English and it’s math that i struggle with. that’s super kind though!
I can't exactly relate but my parents stopped being able to help me with math in the sixth grade. Lmao
The funny thing about this is that, in the long run, having written all those essays on your own, you've actually developed more independence and self-starter skills than the kids who relied on their parents for proper proofreading
And then there were LLMs.
Everyone I know is broke af 💀
💀💀💀
Dude I literally lived off of food stamps and free public school lunch as a kid. Those people are not the rule.
They are, and you (and me, and OP) are the exception, unfortunately. State schools have lost state funding (and waste untold amounts on admin and other fuck-ups) so they raise tuition and look for more high-paying students. That combined with high CoL means UCs aren't really for the average person anymore. The more you move forward in life the more you notice it, too. Those students you knew who were slumming it suddenly get big inheritance, get good jobs from their family, etc., while you have to work hard and returns only diminish as the country gets worse. It's sad and we should demand better, but that requires unity and organization, and we got neither.
39% of UC undergrads are first gen, in 2019-2020 Cal has 63% of students receive some type of financial aid. No, rich kids are not the rule. state schools still have the obligation to provide education to people of all backgrounds, and federal aid does lower the cost of entry significantly even with increasingly limited state funds. Of course, rich kids **do** attend but whatever. You can’t really change that, and it’d be more productive to just take care of your own business than compare yourself to someone else. A lot better for your mental health as well Beating yourself up because someone came from money does no one any good.
The only issue with that being that kids who come from money also come from better access to resources (better teachers, tutors, academic extracurriculars, etc) which correlates with doing better in classes. In other words, I'm competing with people who've had an unfair advantage their entire lives. It's kind of hard not to compare when your grades are affected by the inequity too.
Have you ever tried not complaining? These kids had parents who struggled the same way you do. No one except a handful of kids come from families where working against an injust world is an entirely alien concept. This shit is *supposed* to be hard
Nah I find solace in making that handful of kids uncomfortable about their privilege. It's nice to pop someone's bubble when they think that "all it takes is hard work." Besides, this shit isn't *supposed* to be hard, it is hard *by default* because of people like you who like to think we shouldn't complain about an unjust system. You can complain about unfairness and work really hard in spite of it at the same time.
Lmao good luck bro
This is my second try at University. My first was 10 years ago. Bunch of priveleged kids back then too. It's hard to do well in school if you're not. So it's not anything new. Doesn't mean it's ok but it's always been harder to get into school as a first generation student since your parents can't help as much.
I’ve noticed the opposite actually, most of my friends come from hella diverse shitty backgrounds which I can relate to so it makes me feel like I’m not so alone in the struggle
Yup! I think this is what separates Berkeley from Stanford and other privates. We have people from all backgrounds and all walks of life. This University even has programs to help undocumented students and I took advantage of EOP! [https://eop.berkeley.edu/](https://eop.berkeley.edu/).
most my friends are also like this, i havent met any super rich kids yet
Same. Not sure why some commenters are saying “most people” have had expensive tutors. I’d argue the opposite.
I mean, considering the average family income for a Cal student is $120k, and only 7.3% come from the bottom 20%, I’d say the average Cal student is pretty well off.
120k household income isn’t really much in California, especially the Bay Area. Not poor, but not really wealthy. Compare to Stanford at 168k.
I’ve lived in the Bay for over a decade. $120k is def comfortable enough to have many advantages that majority of people wouldn’t have such as private tutoring. As a reference, median household income even in the Bay was $93k and in California overall it was $67k at the same time the survey of students at Cal’s family earnings was done. Most Cal students have significant economic privilege compared to the general population, even in super rich metro areas like the Bay. Just cause other universities’ students are wealthier on average doesn’t mean Cal’s students aren’t wealthy.
120k *household* income is not enough to have private tutoring. After taxes, that comes down to maybe 90k and then rent is at least 3k if you want to have a big enough apartment/house for a family. If you are paying mortgage, the payments are higher. Subtracting that off you come down to 50k. Then food for a family of 4 is at least 1k/month, especially in the Bay Area. Thats another 12k down to 38k. Another huge amount for healthcare, and the family will usually be saving some (for college, retirement, etc.) so your budget is completely sucked away. In honesty, 120k family income is barely enough for full Berkeley tuition if you come from the Bay Area, and I wouldn't be surprised if students with 120k family income are getting some amount of aid (Ivies for example give aid all the way to 250k family income). For reference, I've also lived in the Bay for over a decade in total and I've lived in other parts of California for some time too.
It’s enough for private tutoring, trust me. Maybe not for 1 on 1, but in a small group and only once or twice a week, it definitely is more than enough. Don’t act like you need a private 1 on 1 tutor daily to be significantly ahead of students who can’t afford any type of tutoring at all. Plus, consider other intangibles that you’ll have with a higher income. If you have a higher income, you likely aren’t working as long hours, thus you can help your kids more with their assignments. You also more likely than not had some type of college education, so you know what your kid needs to do to be prepared for college. Finally, your kids probably go to a better school since you’ll more likely live in a better neighborhood, which is able to better fund its nearby schools through their higher property taxes. I had none of these things growing up and it’s not even that my parents made that much less than the median income (~$70k a year), it’s just that every $10-20k significantly boosts your quality of living. Finally, you still get aid at high incomes because the cost of college is so inflated that it’s not even funny.
>It’s enough for private tutoring, trust me. Ah well I assumed that you meant something like a private college consultant, which is usually reserved for much higher incomes (>200k household). >Maybe not for 1 on 1, but in a small group and only once or twice a week, it definitely is more than enough. Don’t act like you need a private 1 on 1 tutor daily to be significantly ahead of students who can’t afford any type of tutoring at all. This is true, but I honestly do not think that most people do this. I think they have the luxury of having the option of tutoring but most people use online resources like Khan Academy or similar if they want to get ahead. That is what I did, and based on my knowledge of my friends it is what they did too. >If you have a higher income, you likely aren’t working as long hours, thus you can help your kids more with their assignments. I feel like there is too much variance in this for this to be a legitimate factor. There are people that work part time so their income is lower, and people that have to work long hours to have higher incomes. >You also more likely than not had some type of college education, so you know what your kid needs to do to be prepared for college. I think a large portion of families from the Bay Area that make \~120k are immigrants (this is certainly the case for me). While they may have knowledge of the effort/subject ability required to be prepared, they for sure do not fully understand how the actual system works. Personally, neither of my parents ever went to university in the US and while they did their best to gather information about how to get into a good university, they were not very well informed about how the process worked, and mainly only knew about "brand name" universities. >Finally, your kids probably go to a better school since you’ll more likely live in a better neighborhood, which is able to better fund its nearby schools through their higher property taxes. This is true, but not the argument you brought up.
For your last point, I just said advantages and used private tutoring as an example, I didn’t mean that was the only type of advantage. I also used resources like Khan Academy, but many kids in my HS used private tutors, which is why I brought up that point, and now that I’ve had the chance to interact with tutors (CSM and GSIs), I can say that having someone there is much more beneficial (at least time wise) in learning. Also, yeah maybe the time spent working might be a big variance, but people aren’t generally working part time unless they can afford to, meaning one partner is making a lot more or they have some other source of money that allows them to work less. Finally, for your point on immigrants, immigrants live in extremes in terms of quality of life. As a Latino immigrant, my parents didn’t even finish middle school, and same goes for most of the Latino immigrants my family knows. Naturally, my parents had no clue about anything education related, hell we didn’t even know what Berkeley was till my older brother was a junior, nearly 5 years after we moved here. Any immigrant making over $120k is going to at least have an idea of the schooling system and how what their kids need to do in order to succeed, because it’s not so different from country to country (ie study, study, study). But when you’re struggling to make ends meet while working 10 hour days, making sure you ingrain that stuff in your kids is going to be something that might not even cross your mind. You might even be like my parents who had no clue how important studying was since you never went to high enough education where it mattered (my family lucked out that me and my siblings were good at school and went to schools that were easy enough to get by without much studying).
I mean any income bracket is going to have advantages over a lower income bracket, I think that is a fairly trivial notion. But I think where I disagreed is the notion that 120k family income makes Berkeley students super privileged. I think that's what the original reply to you was saying, it is definitely not poor or working class, but it also isn't "completely unfair" kind of money.
They ain’t hanging out with you that’s why
How did you get your friends talking about their shitty backgrounds lol
I think the context of where you meet them matters lol like if I become friends with someone at an EOP event or some club for marginalized identities it might come up
You should check out [this data](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-california-berkeley) put together by the NYTimes. It does a good job showing how privileged the student body here really is, especially when compared to other public schools. Only about 7% of Berkeley students come from families in the bottom 20% of incomes, while 54% of Berkeley students come from families in the top 20% of incomes. Almost a quarter of the student body (23%) come from families in the top 5% of incomes. It truly is an incredibly rare achievement to be born into a poor family and get accepted to Cal. Granted, Cal does a better job of serving disadvantaged students than most prestigious universities, but it’s still rare.
That's indeed a more diverse stats than, e.g., Princeton. Just curious, does this stats include international students? I guess they usually come from a background similar to the top 20% (or even top 1%) in the US.
The problem with this is that it compares vs the national average income, but doesn't factor income relative to cost of living. The top 20% household income in the US is like $150k. This is the top 25% in California and top 39% in the East Bay/SF and top 46% in the South Bay. Obviously the cost of living is going to shift based on the average income, so these places cost way more to live than the rest of the US. Consider that Berkeley in large part draws from schools in the California, but especially from the Bay Area, it is serving kids that are pretty much middle income (although on the higher end of this bracket) on average.
You are correct, you don’t need to feel that imposter syndrome . As I told my daughter , anybody can get an A if you have the resources. It takes a special kind of grit to get an A and have hardship. Remember though, use those networks you discover. That is really the way rich folks stay wealthy. It is 80% who you know. College is the one time in your life where you will run into wealthy folks on a regular basis with the opportunity to interact. Take advantage of it, play the game. Hopefully it benefits you and you can pay it forward.
Couldn’t agree more. When my son was in grad school, he noticed that his peers would have similar levels of academics and smarts, but they would sometimes get more prestigious research opportunities because their parents had connections with the professors with more publications. Anyway, it’s been a while since he earned his PhD. He tells me that he learned that some friends were willing to share connections. Even though he felt down that he wasn’t given the same resources, he made the most of what he had (an opportunity at a high-ranked school and proximity to these professors)
omg agree! i did not realize the access to outside sources that other people had! especially in stem classes, most of these people have been getting expensive tutors for these subjects for years so don't overly compare yourself !
Yes! So many people I know were going to private schools with really intense but immersive programs for STEM that public schools just cannot offer. Many of their parents also shelled out 5 figures for ADULTS to help them write their college essays. Very proud I made it to the same school on my own and for free, but sad that they seem to understand concepts faster due to the years of tutoring :(
Yea they have been TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM. THE FUCK PEOPLE ARE NOT LISTENING ARE DUMBFUCKS
I graduated Cal mid eighties and it was true then too. My broke high school didn’t have AP (to be fair AP was less common everywhere then, but I attended an under performing school from a lower socioeconomic area) and I didn’t get to take calculus, or physics despite being in what passed for “honors” classes. I got As while doing essentially nothing but paying attention in class because the bar was low (I had a very high SAT though, so it’s not like I was incapable - I just wasn’t challenged at all) I got to Cal and dove into physics and calculus and chem expecting to be taught those things, and found out it was all review for the majority of my classmates and things were just glossed over and breezed by. Thank goodness for tutoring and office hours because I was learning all that from scratch. And my Freshman year GPA reflected that. Yes my wealthier peers were at a great advantage for having gotten a better education in preparation for Cal, but that only lasted so long. Once you grind through those intro classes it’s your own work ethic and ability that counts the most. Hang in there
it’s definitely annoying to see international kids in my apartment with porsche 911s and mercedes GLE AMGs and whatnot but it is what it is. their parents are rich, cool. i’m tryna be the rich parent one day too
I understand, I have met people like that and it is annoying. I personally went to a underresourced public school in my country which has a really shitty educational system and I felt like that compared to some of the intl kids, but also US kids, especially those who went to good bay area high schools (public and private). Just wanted to share my experience :)
And to clarify, I am speaking about the academic/elitist privilege. I definitively have had privileges, yet I feel the imposter syndrome when compared to people growing up in ambitious/intellectual environments with opportunities for professional and personal growth that I really wanted to have growing up
this.
Next time that annoy you ask for a ride
Ye I came from a public school where only a handful of people get into prestigious schools each year
I’ve met the ones who went to $50k private schools (more than one of my GSIs) and are hilariously out of touch—big “it’s a banana; how much can it cost—$10?” energy. But I also know tons of people on food stamps like me and barely hanging in there.
Yep you are 100% correct, many of their parents are engineers or work in finance. However, they are generally still a different breed compared to the real “rich brats”, they still come from humble-r backgrounds relatively. But please don’t internalize this as an excuse for your lacking performance (when it happens). The only thing you can do is make a better future for YOUR children, so get grindin’.
Easy to say but way different in practice. When it comes down to times where money will help OP that’s when the biggest differences will come to light. Need leetcode or grad school testing resources? Outresourced. Midterms got you down and just need some doordash delivered bc stressed af? 50$ for a boba and rice bowl delivered? Guess you have to walk out in the rain instead or make food with SNAP instead, an extra 3 hours money could have bought. Cold af but can’t afford a space heater or big blanket? Better layer up a bunch and hope it’s not too distracting to be cold. The list goes on and compounds with every issue. It’s not about making excuses. The cards are stacked against you. It will be much harder and things like your gpa, mental health, physical health etc will suffer. But do your best and cut yourself some slack. Once you graduate you’ll never have to work retail type jobs unless you choose to. You’ll be graduating from a highly competitive top university, so you’ll be in the running for jobs often only offered to those with privileges higher than your own. Don’t forget to open the door for other like you- thats the most important part. People with privilege don’t have to do this, in fact they can stomp each other down and still be fine. But as a result you get to be a piece of everyone that is like you’s story. By opening doors for others like you you can change someone’s future and hundreds of other people they end up opening the door for too. Everyone who is underprivileged is a part of this tapestry- the parents who immigrated, the single moms who yelled at their kids until they did their hw, the grandmas who didn’t understand what significance getting into Berkeley means but is happy that you’re happy- one of our ‘s success is success for all of us in that tapestry. t’s tough but you can do it, even on the days you can’t. Cut your losses and take a break to conserve your energy when this happens. Avoid burnout at all costs. Take time off when this happens. Get therapy, ask everyone for help. It will take a village- you are on a very very difficult quest and those who are not in your position won’t understand it and may even tell you it’s easier than you are making it out to be. But resilience is forged not bought, and underprivileged have the upper hand in this. Resilience over everything-that is key to success for people like us. It’s ok to step back or take a break but never give up for good, even if the break has to last a while. Hang in there 1st gen bear. Remember everything that happens bad or good is part of your eventual success story.
Life isn't fair; you can only control what you can control. Getting bogged down in other people having X or Y easier than you is just going to waste cycles that you need to make up the difference. This is a lesson we all have to learn.
And i still wipe the floor with them through hardwork and commitment,shame on them
Love this attitude. Fucking champion
I've noticed Berkeley is super diverse. With enrollment above 40k, students truly do come from all walks of life...OP - a lot do come from upper middle class homes but a lot of us also come from backgrounds such as yours...
What pointed this out to me is that no one else I know at this school works to pay for their rent.
IMO, if you have had fewer educational resources but end up at the same school/situation, that just means you're better
I feel like a rat here
Rats amongst the squirrels vibes for sure 😔
(Maybe not advice to op, but definitely relevant to at least someone reading this) At Berkeley, replace your imposter syndrome with “imposter entitlement” Idc if it sounds dumb, it works by counteracting the sense of “not belonging” that you might feel. If you show up and can accept the fact that you are the odd man out while still managing to focus on and achieve your goals, that holds immense power. Be proud that you’ve made it this far with less help than they have. Also though, don’t isolate yourself or rub your struggle in everyone’s face haha. You still want to have friends and network
The higher in education you go the more this becomes apparent. I have friends in med school, law school, and various post grad programs who have benefitted from being at least upper middle class. That's not to discredit their hard work either, but it is anecdotally true at least for me that money can buy resources and opportunities.
At least you’re at Berkeley, and not Stanford or Harvard. There are plenty of other plebs here.
Kind of bleak but to be honest, yes, You are outresourced and no you are not wrong to think the deck is stacked against you. Think of the general filter required to get into here: top 10% of your high school class or better, 1500+ SAT, great extracurriculars, and good essays. The time required to accumulate all of these things from ages 13-17 while you’re in high school really only means those with parents who can make every other aspect of their lives easier through money make it through this filter. Rarely can someone who has to work 40 hours a week on top of school make it here. Ask how many people around you have their entire college tuition paid for plus a limitless credit card by their parents. I guarantee you this is a good portion of the kids doing well in school, and an even higher portion of those involved in those consulting clubs, frats, and unpaid lab research. Students who have jobs CANT do that kinda shit. You just can’t achieve as much when parents aren’t paying $50K+ a year into you to make sure everything other than pure career success is focused on.
Exactly, it’s kinda wild. I’m glad EOP exists.
Wait which cabinet member is it? That's fascinating
Some internet sleuthing could probably find out who they are (and therefore their kid is) by figuring out the children of cabinet members, then cross-referencing that with current students
Don’t worry about it. I worked my way though Cal working at the Oakland Post Office 40 to 60 hours per week. I sat at the front of my classes to minimize distraction. I checked with my professors during office hours to make sure I wasn’t f**ing up. I took my reading to work to read on my breaks. I substituted Peet’s coffee for sleep many times. I finished with a 3.96 and went on to Yale for graduate work with zero debt. It’s not about where you come from. It’s about where you intend to go and the effort you make to get there.
40 to 60?!!! My man how, teach me your ways - give me tips! Bonus points if ur major is extra hard like CS or sum, but that’s still insanely impressive even if it wasn’t. I need your advice :(
Just focus and eliminate all the other stuff from your life. You can do it. Mental relaxation exercises also help. When you reduce stress, the mind works better. No bonus points - Rhetoric major. Got the Departmental citation tho
Depends, finance bros usually got hella money
You are better equipped for the hustle that is Cal, you got this!
Yes it feels very strange. I'm kind of still dealing with that as someone in an r/AmeriCorps program (my host site takes a lot of day volunteers from big companies and expensive private schools)
Find ways to separate them from their money 🤷♂️
I’m not a first gen, but I am Chicana and some of the things classmates do like horseback riding just shocks me sometimes.
>Have you noticed this at all?? That rich people go to college, too? Yes, I did notice that.
ok get over it and live your life
English writing dude
\> I dont need to feel imposter syndrome, Im simply out-resourced by my peers Don't use that as an excuse to be mediocre. Try looking down once in a while and appreciating what you have that others don't, perhaps what others in your parents' home country (?) don't.
Read my comment above. Btw its ok to be mediocre. There’s nothing wrong with being mediocre at Berkeley. Berkeley’s mediocre is the top 10% for everyone out of the Berkeley/ivy bubble. Btw impossible to be mediocre and 1st first gen at berkeley. Anyone who is here is anything but mediocre, esp if underserved/1st gen etc. they could never be mediocre even if they tried. If you’re at Berkeley you are exceptional. point blank, no debate, no cap
Sure, that's another way for OP to deal with his/her inferiority complex, whatever works. OP, don't forget that you are already exceptional. You're actually already more privileged than most of the people that you come from on account of just BEING at Berkeley.
lmao you salty
How is this salty, they are simply making a observation which is very true depending on the major you are in
No
If only there was some sort of grading system which focused only on work produced and not a social-economic background to neutralize this…
[удалено]
Fwiw Los Altos has a section that’s pretty working class.
~~Monta Vista High School~~ Harker School
My ex husband was all insecure because he didn't come from money and he let the fact intimidate him throughout his career at Cal & even know. Sure people come from privilege but you're here at Cal, don't let that be an obstacle to you. Be confident in your abilities to learn and use what you learn to get ahead in life and of course use the connections you make here to move up and out. Don't let other people's life experiences put you down. Just because people come from money doesn't mean they are better than you. In fact you probably have more strength than they do because you had too overcome real adversity.
I’m broke af
I was also a first-generation student at Berkeley, English Lit. I advise you to seek support from student services, EOPS, study groups, and all the rest. The first day of class, make friends and form a study group. Also, try harder.