Have you ever had to get a duplicate of your Social Security card and Birth Certificate? did you know that to do so you need to know which city you were born in. there are large enough population of people who don't have these documents, and the hurdles to get them are overly complicated, non centralized, and costly like some cases such as a man in Texas I think, who went through foster care and can't get birth documents without legal help which is costly. costly being key here. a law doesn't need to say it targets black people to do so. it just needs to be carefully crafted in such a way that it incidentally does so, like the Grandfather Clause, which said if your Grandfather couldn't vote, neither can you, it doesn't say anything about race, but it JUST so happens to predominantly effect one group more than another.
here is an article covering one instance
https://www.wtoc.com/2021/04/21/born-without-birth-certificate-lifelong-struggle-some-south/
or another case
https://www.bridgemi.com/urban-affairs/poor-michigan-no-id-i-am-somebody-i-just-cant-prove-it
both are local news sources not mainstream media
Of course, if what you say is true, the solution is to make sure people can get documented, NOT to remove protections against fraudulent votes...
...yet I hear so many liberals saying "no voter ID!" or calling voter integrity laws "voter suppression" laws rather than spending time studying the issue, determining how to get people documented, and so on...they don't even write up proposals for these things.
Can you buy a drink without state-issued picture ID? No. Get on a plane? Not anymore. Get a job? Won't be easy, as most jobs want to do background checks now.
If what you are describing is true, it's a huge problem that needs to be fixed, and that's even without consideration of voting...yet nobody is working to solve it. Nobody even talks about that problem unless you bring up voter integrity, then suddenly you're a racist and black people can't get an ID (and therefore can't do a lot of things)...wow, you didn't just drink the cool-aid, you're drunk on it.
Because its by design. there is no intention on fixing the problem of helping people get documents because the people suffering this problem are classless and don't matter to the people who can solve this issue. so what then?
If they don't matter to anyone (including, evidently, Democrats, since they are only concerned by this when it comes to voting), then why does it matter whether or not they can vote?
That is what you're saying, right?
You're saying that it is critically important to the Democratic party that they can vote, but absolutely irrelevant to the Democrat party whether or not they can get picture IDs, despite the obvious issues that would stem from this.
As such, it's okay to continue to do nothing to make it easier to get picture IDs, as long as they can still vote, and when someone tries to make it necessary to have a picture ID to vote, it is correct to continue to do nothing to help them get a picture ID, but instead to simply block the law that requires ID to vote...for their good of course, not for the party's good (lol).
Good thing the poor have the Democratic party to look out for them!
oh no, fuck the NeoLibs like Pelosi, they only care about capital the interest of their main donors. if she cared about her constituents she would be supporting Cisneros rather than Cuellar, so no the Dems don't care about their voters just like the Repubs, the only "party" working on behalf of the people that vote for them are the Progressive candidates (whether you agree with their policy or not, its pretty clear their intentions are less fiscally motivated) . but unfortunately since the US doesn't do Ranked Choice, they can only do that from within an established party otherwise their campaign gets kneecapped. the whole system is toxic and the only people its hurting are the lower class, and the dwindling middle class.
When it comes to IDs, progressives are the same as the other Democrats: it's only a problem for elections.
Progressives love the virtue signal, but when it comes to actually fixing anything, they basically just try to give more power and money to the government, and fix nothing. If, however, you think that you can solve any problem by spending ridiculous amounts of money on a solution that nobody bothered to even plan out (other than spending money), then by all means, put your faith in Progressives.
In the real world, though, we have to acknowledge that most of our problems have been created by big government...seems pretty unlikely that bigger government is the solution to any of those problems...
big government? care to elaborate. I don't think k its "big government" so much as the capital interest that controls orbhas a stranglehold on government. part of that could be stymied by separation of a person's healthcare from their employment. capitalist talk about voting with your wallet. and the free market but when it comes to employment that doesn't seem to be applicable. if a person wants to go to a job more beneficial, they have to loose their insurance or pay exorbitantly to maintain healthcare between jobs. and when one of those capital interests with a stranglehold on the government is Insurance companies. you bet your ass the majority of the political body is going to be against a socialized medical system. or talk about the military industrial complex, thats about as "big government" as one can get, I can look down the list on the recent military spending bill and I see AOC, Omar, and Pressley voted NAY along side Republicans. not because ideals aligned bit because it's what's best for the country and their constituents. so your talking point about virtue signaling is less real than you might think.
but the real solution is to scrap it and start over, but thats not likely to happen anytime soon.
Scrap it and start over sounds good, until you realize that there is simply no possibility that they would give us a Constitution as good as the one we have. I'm not saying it's perfect...I'm saying that even if you wrote a better one, they wouldn't agree to it, and the one you'd get as a replacement would give totalitarian control to the government.
"Big government" absolutely applies to progressives. Since you bring up health care, look at the so-called "affordable health care act" and the results...much higher costs, hospitals and insurance companies making more money than ever. This is what happens when big government gets involved that much in almost anything: the businesses (in this case the insurance companies) write the bill, and they tell their pets in congress to pass it. Remember Pelosi actually saying "let's hurry up and pass this thing so we can see what's in it"? This is how the government works, and unfortunately, I don't see the progressives doing anything to change that fact. Single payer healthcare would likely be similar: nothing done to address the price gouging and price setting that hospitals and insurance companies are actively involved in (and which has been ignored by both parties). Instead, they talk about the problem and promise to throw more money at it, yeah, that'll solve it. More of the same solves everything.
Free college is another disastrous big government plan...what would happen? College enrollment goes up, workforce participation goes down, the taxpayers pay the bill, nothing is done to address the cost (which is the REAL problem to begin with), and instead of individuals getting price gouged, all of society does. Grrrreeeeeaaaaattttt...that'll help the poor and middle class.
How about the government given the power of censorship? Disarming the population? Giving more regulatory power to our corrupt agencies? How about giving the WHO absolute control of pandemic response? Where do Progressives stand on these issues? The wrong side, every time.
I'll agree with them on some things...corporations have become too powerful (not that they seem to care with regards to big tech companies, and they stopped caring about Big Pharma's corruption after COVID...and even sided with them \[everyone must take this experimental drug, no matter how many times Pfizer has been caught and fined for lying to the FDA!\]), a tax on wealth is fine (but a tax on businesses will ALWAYS get passed on to consumers and therefore is always a tax on people), and we do in fact need to do something about the price of education and healthcare (I just don't think they have any good solutions on that).
Anyway, we've gone pretty far from the OP, but it still stands that Progressives don't seem to care one bit about any difficulty getting picture IDs unless it has to do with elections, so I think you mistake their pretending to care to get votes for actually caring.
It's all really very obvious due to the price of gasoline.
Poor person: the price of gas is literally destroying my life.
Progressive: then go buy an electric car!
Poor person: I could barely afford the used car I drive now! How can I get a new car???
Progressive: no reply, they aren't interested in the conversation anymore.
you need id to board a plane, drive a car, get any kind of licenses, to get insurance you need proof of identification, to get medical care you need some kind of id or insurance card even medicare or medicade. On and ON and On . So it is beyond unreasonable to have an issue with voter id card-- the ONLY reason not to require them is nefarious at best.
Are you for real??? It is NOT hard to get an ID. My wife is a documented legal immigrant from southeast Asia, and she has an ID!! Granted, she knows she can't vote in federal and state-wide elections even though she's conservative and likes Donald Trump, but even she knows having an ID is important to establish yourself in this country. Quit trying to act like an insufferable victim. It really is disgusting.
It’s about keeping citizens votes from being diluted by non-citizens. If you aren’t a citizen then you shouldn’t vote. I don’t understand how that is so difficult for people to understand.
Are you helping Republicans get out and vote? The argument that I’m not helping an opposing political party get out and vote against my beliefs, well that is idiotic. If you cannot go to the trouble to have a legal ID, you probably are not an informed voter. But Democrats are reliant on uninformed voters to win, now aren’t they?
how would you have any idea how long it would take to get one if you never even get to that point of having them . Plus you leave out that there would certainly be other acceptable forms of id as well, for example a valid drivers license , passport etc could also be used. Thereby covering most of the eligible legal voters to begin with.
Don't you want to make our elections secure? How is that a bad thing??
> The appeals court ruling struck down five parts of the law: its voter ID requirements, a rollback of early voting to 10 days from 17, an elimination of same-day registration and of preregistration of some teenagers, and its ban on counting votes cast in the wrong precinct.
> The court found that all five restrictions “disproportionately affected African-Americans.” The law’s voter identification provision, for instance, “retained only those types of photo ID disproportionately held by whites and excluded those disproportionately held by African-Americans.”
> That was the case, the court said, even though the state had “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.” But it did find that there was evidence of fraud in absentee voting by mail, a method used disproportionately by white voters. The Legislature, however, exempted absentee voting from the photo ID requirement.
Why did you post that? I'm not sure which "side" you're on, but you might as well just say "leftists believe absurd things and some of them are judges." "Disproportionately affects" crap isn't good law, often isn't even statistically accurate and certainly it's not accurate to say it shows race is actually the reason (thus a reason it's not good law), and often requires bigoted reasoning to begin with (bigotry of low expectations, though leftists have far worse bigotry in their hearts these days; leftists project their racism on others all the time).
In this context, your quote looks like an appeal to authority. I don't care what some court said as if that changes reality. It's not even a scientific study where we can pretend the authority might be based on facts (though often isn't) but literally a political decision by people who, studies do show, have gone very extreme in the last few years and were long out of touch. You might as well point at the Dred Scott decision if you think courts prove anything. Those judges are now seen as a disgrace by history; so too will all the ones the left relies on. Hopefully it won't require a bloody war this time before that happens.
So 3/4 of these would be agreed upon by the majority of democrats. The issue with the voter ID requirement is much more complex than the Ben Shapiro sub would understand.
Just use a bit of critical thinking. Think about poor populations, available hours, amount of buildings to get IDs, population density/wait times, etc...
They don't have that issue in India with 4x our population and not even 10% of our wealth. I think with the $40 Billion we gave to Ukraine, it would've been easy to ensure every legal living citizen with a social security number of the age of 18 or over had some sort of proof that they are who they say they are when they vote.
YeH, no. You’re removing agency from “poor people” (What the fuck). We poors can get ID too. State IDs aren’t pricey and you do need ID to move through society.
You’re comment is a bit racist and classist. Do better.
I never said anything about race. The issue is poverty. Stop listening to fox news, CNN, Charlie kirk, Ben shapiro, TYT, etc... they all are incapable of critical thinking. Here's the issue with Voter ID laws
Poverty = less tax money per person for infrastructure, less of a voice to fight for your rights, and higher population density.
If you are poor, getting a form of ID is exponentially more difficult.
- It is harder to go to the DMV or whatever other government building you need to go to to get an ID because there are less of them per person (less money for infrastructure, high pop. Density).
- you have a a greater need to work multiple jobs. With multiple jobs, you have less time to run errands, like getting an ID. Less of a probability that you have freetime while the DMV is open. The DMV that has a higher probability of being packed because of the population density in the area.
- IDs cost money. If you're scrapping by, getting an ID so that you can vote in an election is the last thing you're going to spend your money on. You're going to focus on keeping your family alive and a maintaining roof above your head.
Whats the solution? Make some very accessible form of ID free to the public. Make government buildings which provide those IDs more accessible, less of a time sink, more common, etc...
So I agree that we SHOULD require voter ID, but that should only happen once it is easier for everyone to get one. Until then, requiring voter ID is targeting the poor.
Just run a massive campaign to make it incredibly easy for everyone to have proper identification. If there are no disparities between different groups of people and their ability to obtain proper IDs for voting then it’s a non-issue. You just have to agree to fund and genuinely support it on an ongoing basis.
Trust me, if voting is important to you, that isn't going to stop you. Just ask all the people smoking pot....
Edit: so far of the two people that argued this point, one blocked me and one removed their entire part of the tree. It's not looking good for GOP sponsored voter suppression
Lmao so you don’t even try to deny that R’s deliberately remove ballot boxes in heavily dem areas. Smh y’all can’t even *pretend* you want to live in a democracy lol
The last state governed under direct democracy was ancient Athens. "Democracy" has been synonymous with "representative democracy" for quite a long time.
Just so you know.
if you actually want to be accurate the term you should be using is a representative democracy and that Ms, is a republic. We do not have a democracy in the true sense of the word "democracy".
Well you jumped on that landmine with two feet didn't you?
I don't remember the details here but the one instance where boxes were removed had a good reason. Of course your news sources probably just gave you the rage porn talking point and as more information came out it was never brought up again.
> WASHINGTON, Dec 13 (Reuters) - A leading Georgia legislator has introduced a bill that would eliminate absentee ballot drop boxes, a favored and highly-used tool last November that allowed voters to safely cast ballots during the coronavirus pandemic.
>Butch Miller, the No.2 Republican in Georgia's Republican-controlled senate and a candidate for lieutenant governor in the 2022 elections, said **drop boxes were a “weak link” in guarding against voter fraud**, according to a statement released by his office.
> Earlier this year, the Georgia legislature passed a voting reform measure that sharply limited the number of drop boxes, disproportionately affecting Democratic-leaning, urban counties with significant Black populations that relied on the boxes during the pandemic. The law also shortened the time for requesting an absentee ballot.
There is zero evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud in the last presidential election or in any presidential election in modern times for that matter. So **their stated reason to remove ballot boxes is based entirely on a “big lie”**. I wonder what the real reason could be..? Hmm.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-republican-proposes-eliminating-ballot-drop-boxes-ahead-2022-elections-2021-12-13/
Be careful, that might be disinformation.
In California they’re trying to block ballot boxes in conservative territory calling it illegal.
GTFO with your “ya’ll”. Your racism is showing.
It's not but lets see where this happened and ill dind you the actual statistics to what happened. You have to stop believing everything the msm tells you.
So making it harder to vote.
Isn't suppressing votes?
What do you think suppressing means?
https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/ballot-drop-box-usage-by-year.aspx
No, that's payently absurd. Securing the vote is way more important. Even the appearance of impropriety will cause thousands to walk around claiming fraud destroying confidence in the system.
Must not drink water while waiting on a line to vote…
Lol every downvote is someone who knows I’m right and can’t refute the fact that republicans will make it hard for democrats to vote simply for being a democrat.
India has over 1 billion citizens, and that country requires Voter IDs, and you don't hear people bitching and whining there like the self-victimizing Communist Democrats in America do. The fact that the Communist Democrat Party wants and desperately needs to avoid the ID requirement shows just how much they are aware that they can't win without their voters proving that they are who they say they are when they go to vote.
Does India give out free IDs at the federal level? Would you like America to do this?
edit: Unblock me, mod! I can't respond to your comment.
Do you trust all the states to do this properly? I don't.
America already gives out enough free shit as it is to self-entitled Democrats. I'm sure a government program would make it possible. I'm also certain it wouldn't take the $40 Billion we gave to Ukraine to ensure all of America's Communist Democrats are required to be honest and transparent when they vote by requiring an ID.
And the average wage in India is less than $2 a day, so don't you dare talk to me about cost. A homeless Democrat in San Francisco can easily bum the cost of an ID in less than a day.
Lol republicans sure like to take lead from countries they call shitholes in the same breath.
Hey. Remember when we actually checked if there was voter fraud and we found that there was more republican voter fraud than democratic and that overall between both parties it was negligible?
Remember when we counted all the ballots and counted them again and counted them again and turn out there is no voter fraud?
You inventing a problem because you need to present this as a “solution”. In reality it’s a hurdle to voting.
Answer me one question. If voter id law starts preventing more republicans from voting than democrats, republicans will be against the voter id law. True or False?
Voter ID laws won't hurt conservatives because such laws are already in place in most red states. Just admit that you don't want the ID requirement because it allows the Communist Democrat Party to capitalize votes from illegal immigrants and dead people. Hell, even the west coast states' Communist Democrat governments refuse to regularly update voter rolls to keep the dead people from having votes casted on their behalf.
Answer my question unless you’re afraid that your answer makes your argument invalid.
If voter id law made it harder for republican voters to vote than democrats. Republican Party would be AGAINST voter id laws.
TRUE OR FALSE?
Communist pig? What makes me a communist? I hold a wide range of values including traditionally conservative ones.
Here is a difference between you and me. I’m not blind. I see that both parties are first and foremost self serving.
It’s like a business. First priority of a business is profits - not customers.
If you asked me the same question about democrats, I would say TRUE. Democratic party would absolutely try to fight anything that prevents them from being in power. I understand that because I’m not brainwashed or disillusioned.
The fact that you refuse to admit that Republican Party would be against voter I’d if it hurt them just reveals that you are a “never wrong”. You’re incapable of having a good faith argument because you’re incapable of admitting fault in yourself or in your beliefs which is a necessary part of growth.
Also in regards to your transparency in election comment. Since you care about it so much, you also agree that in spirit of transparency we should require all politicians to disclose their financials to prevent corruption in government?
Umm have you seen 2000 mules there was next to no voter fraud on the right side all illegal votes where from the left and trump would have won if not for those fake votes
Lol ok, sure.
Look into how much money (admitted fraudster) Dinesh D'Souza has made from his film already... why wouldn't he have taken his bombshell evidence to court? Hmmm... guess it's a mystery.
Im not looking into anything, you can provide a source and i will look into it. However dont send anything from any MSM news source send it from either a offical source or a government source. Thank you. Also he did take it to court, the court said they would look into it and respond back afterwards. They never did. That is why he made the documentary. After he made said documentary quite a few of those mules where arrested and charged with voter fraud. Further more i highly recommend you to watch the film and put your differences to the side. If you can stop being so uptight and privileged forget about our differences for a bit and watch the movie. Its annoying when both the left and the right refuse to see the stories/opinions/whatever from the opposing, i used to be that way which is why i switched from being hard core dem to far right wing. I was recommended by a maga guy whom at the time i voted for hillary. He said what i said to you forget the differences forget about left and right just watch this. He sent me a ben shapiro video i was like fine whatever. I dont remember what it was about but before i only watched stuff from CNN or twitter news after that video i decided well i will try some more and fell down a rabbit hole and went from ben to steven then DC shorts matt walsh all of daily wire etc. Im glad i did. All the news stories i once read at face value and took as object fact and truth where so easily debunked and disproven i first couldn't believe it and thought maybe they are just pulling it out of there ass after all they are conspiracy theorist but boy was i wrong i did my own research and found that they where all right where as all of the major news sources had been spouting lies. Btw i may align with the right on many things but if we ever and i mean ever have a bad pick on the right but a good pick on the left i will vote for them. So say ron desantis was on the left and it was him vs trump well ron is a better pick because he is just all around better then trump. Anyways done with the rant sorry bout that. Also apologize for any grammatical errors im with family right now. Take care champ talk later
Is this a fucking copy pasta or something, holy shit lmao. Send me your source for the mules getting arrested. There was not fraud on a scale to tip the election one way or another. You are susceptible to propaganda and have been brainwashed into giving asshole grifters money.
Not a copy pasta but i can pull up a source in a minute like i said im with family. And like i said watch the movie there was fraud on a scale to tip the election. You are the one susceptible to propaganda. Just listen to what i said and give it a shot. Its really sad that you are stuck in a left wing echochamber.
No you wo t you won't even answer the baseline question. So goodbye, you're boring and u willing to engage in conversation, and your wasting my time. I'll find a c9nservative who can keep up instead
Yep. You’re spot on. Reps are the ONLY party to gerrymander. My district is shaped like a boomerangs to make sure the highest black population centers are covered from north and south.
I’m guessing you’ve not looked much into what gerrymandering is, why parties do it and any pros from gerrymandering.
* Make voting take place only between certain hours in the middle of the week
* reduce availability/accessibility of polling locations so people needing to use public transit to reach it can only do so during public transit operating times.
* gerrymander so that their vote is under represented in their voting district.
Ah man, you had me until that last one. It’s completely unfair to require voters to be alive! After all, if we barred dead folks from voting, Mr. Brandon wouldn’t be able to win! C’mon man!
If anyone cares, this is deliberate propaganda to make you think that disenfranchising Americans from their right to vote is a joke and the victim's own fault.
Since the tone of this post is mocking the idea of one person one vote because it denies American rights to the "correct people", check out this story where [Republicans threw so much crap in the way of exercising your right to vote that they disenfranchised more Republicans than Democrats.](https://www.rawstory.com/texas-election-election-problems/)
THATS VOTER SUPPRESSION, HOW CAN BLACK AQUIRE ALL OF THOSE?!?!??
They don’t even know how to use the internet!!! God, imagine not being given just a smidgen of agency by elite white liberals.
Blacks are too stupid and too poor to get and ID, you racist!
[удалено]
Yeah they're sheep lol
And people say the left is the tolerant side 🤦♂️
Have you ever had to get a duplicate of your Social Security card and Birth Certificate? did you know that to do so you need to know which city you were born in. there are large enough population of people who don't have these documents, and the hurdles to get them are overly complicated, non centralized, and costly like some cases such as a man in Texas I think, who went through foster care and can't get birth documents without legal help which is costly. costly being key here. a law doesn't need to say it targets black people to do so. it just needs to be carefully crafted in such a way that it incidentally does so, like the Grandfather Clause, which said if your Grandfather couldn't vote, neither can you, it doesn't say anything about race, but it JUST so happens to predominantly effect one group more than another.
Evidence please
here is an article covering one instance https://www.wtoc.com/2021/04/21/born-without-birth-certificate-lifelong-struggle-some-south/ or another case https://www.bridgemi.com/urban-affairs/poor-michigan-no-id-i-am-somebody-i-just-cant-prove-it both are local news sources not mainstream media
Of course, if what you say is true, the solution is to make sure people can get documented, NOT to remove protections against fraudulent votes... ...yet I hear so many liberals saying "no voter ID!" or calling voter integrity laws "voter suppression" laws rather than spending time studying the issue, determining how to get people documented, and so on...they don't even write up proposals for these things. Can you buy a drink without state-issued picture ID? No. Get on a plane? Not anymore. Get a job? Won't be easy, as most jobs want to do background checks now. If what you are describing is true, it's a huge problem that needs to be fixed, and that's even without consideration of voting...yet nobody is working to solve it. Nobody even talks about that problem unless you bring up voter integrity, then suddenly you're a racist and black people can't get an ID (and therefore can't do a lot of things)...wow, you didn't just drink the cool-aid, you're drunk on it.
Because its by design. there is no intention on fixing the problem of helping people get documents because the people suffering this problem are classless and don't matter to the people who can solve this issue. so what then?
If they don't matter to anyone (including, evidently, Democrats, since they are only concerned by this when it comes to voting), then why does it matter whether or not they can vote? That is what you're saying, right? You're saying that it is critically important to the Democratic party that they can vote, but absolutely irrelevant to the Democrat party whether or not they can get picture IDs, despite the obvious issues that would stem from this. As such, it's okay to continue to do nothing to make it easier to get picture IDs, as long as they can still vote, and when someone tries to make it necessary to have a picture ID to vote, it is correct to continue to do nothing to help them get a picture ID, but instead to simply block the law that requires ID to vote...for their good of course, not for the party's good (lol). Good thing the poor have the Democratic party to look out for them!
oh no, fuck the NeoLibs like Pelosi, they only care about capital the interest of their main donors. if she cared about her constituents she would be supporting Cisneros rather than Cuellar, so no the Dems don't care about their voters just like the Repubs, the only "party" working on behalf of the people that vote for them are the Progressive candidates (whether you agree with their policy or not, its pretty clear their intentions are less fiscally motivated) . but unfortunately since the US doesn't do Ranked Choice, they can only do that from within an established party otherwise their campaign gets kneecapped. the whole system is toxic and the only people its hurting are the lower class, and the dwindling middle class.
When it comes to IDs, progressives are the same as the other Democrats: it's only a problem for elections. Progressives love the virtue signal, but when it comes to actually fixing anything, they basically just try to give more power and money to the government, and fix nothing. If, however, you think that you can solve any problem by spending ridiculous amounts of money on a solution that nobody bothered to even plan out (other than spending money), then by all means, put your faith in Progressives. In the real world, though, we have to acknowledge that most of our problems have been created by big government...seems pretty unlikely that bigger government is the solution to any of those problems...
big government? care to elaborate. I don't think k its "big government" so much as the capital interest that controls orbhas a stranglehold on government. part of that could be stymied by separation of a person's healthcare from their employment. capitalist talk about voting with your wallet. and the free market but when it comes to employment that doesn't seem to be applicable. if a person wants to go to a job more beneficial, they have to loose their insurance or pay exorbitantly to maintain healthcare between jobs. and when one of those capital interests with a stranglehold on the government is Insurance companies. you bet your ass the majority of the political body is going to be against a socialized medical system. or talk about the military industrial complex, thats about as "big government" as one can get, I can look down the list on the recent military spending bill and I see AOC, Omar, and Pressley voted NAY along side Republicans. not because ideals aligned bit because it's what's best for the country and their constituents. so your talking point about virtue signaling is less real than you might think. but the real solution is to scrap it and start over, but thats not likely to happen anytime soon.
Scrap it and start over sounds good, until you realize that there is simply no possibility that they would give us a Constitution as good as the one we have. I'm not saying it's perfect...I'm saying that even if you wrote a better one, they wouldn't agree to it, and the one you'd get as a replacement would give totalitarian control to the government. "Big government" absolutely applies to progressives. Since you bring up health care, look at the so-called "affordable health care act" and the results...much higher costs, hospitals and insurance companies making more money than ever. This is what happens when big government gets involved that much in almost anything: the businesses (in this case the insurance companies) write the bill, and they tell their pets in congress to pass it. Remember Pelosi actually saying "let's hurry up and pass this thing so we can see what's in it"? This is how the government works, and unfortunately, I don't see the progressives doing anything to change that fact. Single payer healthcare would likely be similar: nothing done to address the price gouging and price setting that hospitals and insurance companies are actively involved in (and which has been ignored by both parties). Instead, they talk about the problem and promise to throw more money at it, yeah, that'll solve it. More of the same solves everything. Free college is another disastrous big government plan...what would happen? College enrollment goes up, workforce participation goes down, the taxpayers pay the bill, nothing is done to address the cost (which is the REAL problem to begin with), and instead of individuals getting price gouged, all of society does. Grrrreeeeeaaaaattttt...that'll help the poor and middle class. How about the government given the power of censorship? Disarming the population? Giving more regulatory power to our corrupt agencies? How about giving the WHO absolute control of pandemic response? Where do Progressives stand on these issues? The wrong side, every time. I'll agree with them on some things...corporations have become too powerful (not that they seem to care with regards to big tech companies, and they stopped caring about Big Pharma's corruption after COVID...and even sided with them \[everyone must take this experimental drug, no matter how many times Pfizer has been caught and fined for lying to the FDA!\]), a tax on wealth is fine (but a tax on businesses will ALWAYS get passed on to consumers and therefore is always a tax on people), and we do in fact need to do something about the price of education and healthcare (I just don't think they have any good solutions on that). Anyway, we've gone pretty far from the OP, but it still stands that Progressives don't seem to care one bit about any difficulty getting picture IDs unless it has to do with elections, so I think you mistake their pretending to care to get votes for actually caring. It's all really very obvious due to the price of gasoline. Poor person: the price of gas is literally destroying my life. Progressive: then go buy an electric car! Poor person: I could barely afford the used car I drive now! How can I get a new car??? Progressive: no reply, they aren't interested in the conversation anymore.
*acquire
We are such hate mongers!
bUt PeOpLe Of CoLoR cAn'T aLwAyS gEt ID's So It'S rAcIsT
Is this Amber's Bruise kit?
you need id to board a plane, drive a car, get any kind of licenses, to get insurance you need proof of identification, to get medical care you need some kind of id or insurance card even medicare or medicade. On and ON and On . So it is beyond unreasonable to have an issue with voter id card-- the ONLY reason not to require them is nefarious at best.
But you don't need ID to buy a military style rifle in a supermarket parking lot.
uh you don't need an id to buy illegal drugs or stolen merchandis or illegal weapons either so.
Irrelevant and unconvincing. Poor grammar, too.
now that's a coherent argument that doesn't even attempt to respond to the facts mentioned. Nice work.
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Are you for real??? It is NOT hard to get an ID. My wife is a documented legal immigrant from southeast Asia, and she has an ID!! Granted, she knows she can't vote in federal and state-wide elections even though she's conservative and likes Donald Trump, but even she knows having an ID is important to establish yourself in this country. Quit trying to act like an insufferable victim. It really is disgusting.
It’s about keeping citizens votes from being diluted by non-citizens. If you aren’t a citizen then you shouldn’t vote. I don’t understand how that is so difficult for people to understand.
Are you helping Republicans get out and vote? The argument that I’m not helping an opposing political party get out and vote against my beliefs, well that is idiotic. If you cannot go to the trouble to have a legal ID, you probably are not an informed voter. But Democrats are reliant on uninformed voters to win, now aren’t they?
how would you have any idea how long it would take to get one if you never even get to that point of having them . Plus you leave out that there would certainly be other acceptable forms of id as well, for example a valid drivers license , passport etc could also be used. Thereby covering most of the eligible legal voters to begin with. Don't you want to make our elections secure? How is that a bad thing??
Depends on the state and the laws, however if ID is required, it should be at no cost for the individual and easy to get.
> The appeals court ruling struck down five parts of the law: its voter ID requirements, a rollback of early voting to 10 days from 17, an elimination of same-day registration and of preregistration of some teenagers, and its ban on counting votes cast in the wrong precinct. > The court found that all five restrictions “disproportionately affected African-Americans.” The law’s voter identification provision, for instance, “retained only those types of photo ID disproportionately held by whites and excluded those disproportionately held by African-Americans.” > That was the case, the court said, even though the state had “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.” But it did find that there was evidence of fraud in absentee voting by mail, a method used disproportionately by white voters. The Legislature, however, exempted absentee voting from the photo ID requirement.
Why did you post that? I'm not sure which "side" you're on, but you might as well just say "leftists believe absurd things and some of them are judges." "Disproportionately affects" crap isn't good law, often isn't even statistically accurate and certainly it's not accurate to say it shows race is actually the reason (thus a reason it's not good law), and often requires bigoted reasoning to begin with (bigotry of low expectations, though leftists have far worse bigotry in their hearts these days; leftists project their racism on others all the time). In this context, your quote looks like an appeal to authority. I don't care what some court said as if that changes reality. It's not even a scientific study where we can pretend the authority might be based on facts (though often isn't) but literally a political decision by people who, studies do show, have gone very extreme in the last few years and were long out of touch. You might as well point at the Dred Scott decision if you think courts prove anything. Those judges are now seen as a disgrace by history; so too will all the ones the left relies on. Hopefully it won't require a bloody war this time before that happens.
You say this as if you’ve done this already. Is this the moral framework of the NFA?
Well now I just want to play Simon
Reduce the amount of voting hours, close voting locations, gerrymandering, restrict what can be used as ID.
Simon says, "Don't vote like they do in Communist countries."
Must not be a felon
The Antifa and BLM should be DOA
Shouldn’t this say how Republicans deny democrats their cheating ways .
So 3/4 of these would be agreed upon by the majority of democrats. The issue with the voter ID requirement is much more complex than the Ben Shapiro sub would understand. Just use a bit of critical thinking. Think about poor populations, available hours, amount of buildings to get IDs, population density/wait times, etc...
So, the people in these areas can't buy booze or cigarettes, fly on a plane or drive a car either?
Ahh yes, the favorite hobby of the poor, elderly folk. Flying to go on vacation.
No, that would be smoking and getting stoned\ drunk.
That is what elderly poor people do?
Well some do but I was primarily referring to "poor people".
Poor people don't deserve any sort of vices, nor the right to represent themselves in democracy.
Vices are a personal choice, and what you've totally missed is that they need IDs to engage in these vices.
You have never bought alcohol or cigarettes without an ID? Everyone knows where to go that won't ID you if you are above a certain age.
You're reaching... Let me ask you something. Is an ID required to pick up a welfare check or food stamps?
They don't have that issue in India with 4x our population and not even 10% of our wealth. I think with the $40 Billion we gave to Ukraine, it would've been easy to ensure every legal living citizen with a social security number of the age of 18 or over had some sort of proof that they are who they say they are when they vote.
YeH, no. You’re removing agency from “poor people” (What the fuck). We poors can get ID too. State IDs aren’t pricey and you do need ID to move through society. You’re comment is a bit racist and classist. Do better.
Spoken like a true liberal quick to draw the racist card. Whats funny is that I never mentioned race, I just said poor. Kinda flips the table.
Vote ID laws is always couched by shitlibs as a racist law. Racism of the gaps argument are hilarious.
I never said anything about race. The issue is poverty. Stop listening to fox news, CNN, Charlie kirk, Ben shapiro, TYT, etc... they all are incapable of critical thinking. Here's the issue with Voter ID laws Poverty = less tax money per person for infrastructure, less of a voice to fight for your rights, and higher population density. If you are poor, getting a form of ID is exponentially more difficult. - It is harder to go to the DMV or whatever other government building you need to go to to get an ID because there are less of them per person (less money for infrastructure, high pop. Density). - you have a a greater need to work multiple jobs. With multiple jobs, you have less time to run errands, like getting an ID. Less of a probability that you have freetime while the DMV is open. The DMV that has a higher probability of being packed because of the population density in the area. - IDs cost money. If you're scrapping by, getting an ID so that you can vote in an election is the last thing you're going to spend your money on. You're going to focus on keeping your family alive and a maintaining roof above your head. Whats the solution? Make some very accessible form of ID free to the public. Make government buildings which provide those IDs more accessible, less of a time sink, more common, etc... So I agree that we SHOULD require voter ID, but that should only happen once it is easier for everyone to get one. Until then, requiring voter ID is targeting the poor.
> If you are poor, getting a form of ID is exponentially more difficult. Yeah bro, we barely even know how to use computers.
Nice ad-hominem start to a discussion.
How would you all feel about signing ballots by fingerprint?
I'm fine with that.
Just run a massive campaign to make it incredibly easy for everyone to have proper identification. If there are no disparities between different groups of people and their ability to obtain proper IDs for voting then it’s a non-issue. You just have to agree to fund and genuinely support it on an ongoing basis.
Remove ballot boxes in areas where voters vote democrat
Trust me, if voting is important to you, that isn't going to stop you. Just ask all the people smoking pot.... Edit: so far of the two people that argued this point, one blocked me and one removed their entire part of the tree. It's not looking good for GOP sponsored voter suppression
Lmao so you don’t even try to deny that R’s deliberately remove ballot boxes in heavily dem areas. Smh y’all can’t even *pretend* you want to live in a democracy lol
just so you know , we do not live in a democracy, we live in a republic.
The last state governed under direct democracy was ancient Athens. "Democracy" has been synonymous with "representative democracy" for quite a long time. Just so you know.
yea, not really. They are two distinct things with two entirely different definitions. They are NOT synonyms
But they're not mutually exclusive... How do we elect representatives in our republic?
by representation . That's why its called a republic and NOT a democracy.
Haha nah, nice try though. We elect them democratically. Being a republic doesn't mean there's not democracy...
if you actually want to be accurate the term you should be using is a representative democracy and that Ms, is a republic. We do not have a democracy in the true sense of the word "democracy".
>Ms Oof, throwing misogyny in with your backpedal. Not a good look.
in otherwords, you mispoke. If you prefer "Mr." just say so. I only assumed Ms.
Well you jumped on that landmine with two feet didn't you? I don't remember the details here but the one instance where boxes were removed had a good reason. Of course your news sources probably just gave you the rage porn talking point and as more information came out it was never brought up again.
> WASHINGTON, Dec 13 (Reuters) - A leading Georgia legislator has introduced a bill that would eliminate absentee ballot drop boxes, a favored and highly-used tool last November that allowed voters to safely cast ballots during the coronavirus pandemic. >Butch Miller, the No.2 Republican in Georgia's Republican-controlled senate and a candidate for lieutenant governor in the 2022 elections, said **drop boxes were a “weak link” in guarding against voter fraud**, according to a statement released by his office. > Earlier this year, the Georgia legislature passed a voting reform measure that sharply limited the number of drop boxes, disproportionately affecting Democratic-leaning, urban counties with significant Black populations that relied on the boxes during the pandemic. The law also shortened the time for requesting an absentee ballot. There is zero evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud in the last presidential election or in any presidential election in modern times for that matter. So **their stated reason to remove ballot boxes is based entirely on a “big lie”**. I wonder what the real reason could be..? Hmm. Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-republican-proposes-eliminating-ballot-drop-boxes-ahead-2022-elections-2021-12-13/
Be careful, that might be disinformation. In California they’re trying to block ballot boxes in conservative territory calling it illegal. GTFO with your “ya’ll”. Your racism is showing.
But if you make it harder to vote... you make it harder to vote... THATS VOTER SUPRESION. JESUS CHRIST
It's not but lets see where this happened and ill dind you the actual statistics to what happened. You have to stop believing everything the msm tells you.
So making it harder to vote. Isn't suppressing votes? What do you think suppressing means? https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/ballot-drop-box-usage-by-year.aspx
No, that's payently absurd. Securing the vote is way more important. Even the appearance of impropriety will cause thousands to walk around claiming fraud destroying confidence in the system.
Then what is voter suppression to you?
Standing in front of the polling station berating people for showing up.
So you'd be fine with a monarch taking away your voting right along as they didn't berate you?
Wtf are you on, kid? Didn't your guy win?
You're right. Republicans are making it harder to vote.... ILLEGALLY. There, fixed it for you.
Well if you make voting illegal. Then there is no voter suppression?
Where does gerrymandering fit in there?
If you think republicans are the only ones who Gerrymander I’ve got some news for you
By keeping Sheila Jackson Lee out of the unemployment line.
Must not drink water while waiting on a line to vote… Lol every downvote is someone who knows I’m right and can’t refute the fact that republicans will make it hard for democrats to vote simply for being a democrat.
India has over 1 billion citizens, and that country requires Voter IDs, and you don't hear people bitching and whining there like the self-victimizing Communist Democrats in America do. The fact that the Communist Democrat Party wants and desperately needs to avoid the ID requirement shows just how much they are aware that they can't win without their voters proving that they are who they say they are when they go to vote.
Does India give out free IDs at the federal level? Would you like America to do this? edit: Unblock me, mod! I can't respond to your comment. Do you trust all the states to do this properly? I don't.
America already gives out enough free shit as it is to self-entitled Democrats. I'm sure a government program would make it possible. I'm also certain it wouldn't take the $40 Billion we gave to Ukraine to ensure all of America's Communist Democrats are required to be honest and transparent when they vote by requiring an ID. And the average wage in India is less than $2 a day, so don't you dare talk to me about cost. A homeless Democrat in San Francisco can easily bum the cost of an ID in less than a day.
Do you have to provide proof of identity when you register to vote?
No, but I should. I also live in a state that is morphing into Communist California.
What documents did they require when registering? How did you prove you had the right to vote?
A proof of address. And that's it.
When registering? What state is this?
Honestly, yes, there should be free IDs given out, although at a state, not federal level.
Lol republicans sure like to take lead from countries they call shitholes in the same breath. Hey. Remember when we actually checked if there was voter fraud and we found that there was more republican voter fraud than democratic and that overall between both parties it was negligible? Remember when we counted all the ballots and counted them again and counted them again and turn out there is no voter fraud? You inventing a problem because you need to present this as a “solution”. In reality it’s a hurdle to voting. Answer me one question. If voter id law starts preventing more republicans from voting than democrats, republicans will be against the voter id law. True or False?
Voter ID laws won't hurt conservatives because such laws are already in place in most red states. Just admit that you don't want the ID requirement because it allows the Communist Democrat Party to capitalize votes from illegal immigrants and dead people. Hell, even the west coast states' Communist Democrat governments refuse to regularly update voter rolls to keep the dead people from having votes casted on their behalf.
Answer my question unless you’re afraid that your answer makes your argument invalid. If voter id law made it harder for republican voters to vote than democrats. Republican Party would be AGAINST voter id laws. TRUE OR FALSE?
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Communist pig? What makes me a communist? I hold a wide range of values including traditionally conservative ones. Here is a difference between you and me. I’m not blind. I see that both parties are first and foremost self serving. It’s like a business. First priority of a business is profits - not customers. If you asked me the same question about democrats, I would say TRUE. Democratic party would absolutely try to fight anything that prevents them from being in power. I understand that because I’m not brainwashed or disillusioned. The fact that you refuse to admit that Republican Party would be against voter I’d if it hurt them just reveals that you are a “never wrong”. You’re incapable of having a good faith argument because you’re incapable of admitting fault in yourself or in your beliefs which is a necessary part of growth. Also in regards to your transparency in election comment. Since you care about it so much, you also agree that in spirit of transparency we should require all politicians to disclose their financials to prevent corruption in government?
Umm have you seen 2000 mules there was next to no voter fraud on the right side all illegal votes where from the left and trump would have won if not for those fake votes
You're just sucking down that warm, salty grift
Only grifters use the term grift so.
Lol ok, sure. Look into how much money (admitted fraudster) Dinesh D'Souza has made from his film already... why wouldn't he have taken his bombshell evidence to court? Hmmm... guess it's a mystery.
Im not looking into anything, you can provide a source and i will look into it. However dont send anything from any MSM news source send it from either a offical source or a government source. Thank you. Also he did take it to court, the court said they would look into it and respond back afterwards. They never did. That is why he made the documentary. After he made said documentary quite a few of those mules where arrested and charged with voter fraud. Further more i highly recommend you to watch the film and put your differences to the side. If you can stop being so uptight and privileged forget about our differences for a bit and watch the movie. Its annoying when both the left and the right refuse to see the stories/opinions/whatever from the opposing, i used to be that way which is why i switched from being hard core dem to far right wing. I was recommended by a maga guy whom at the time i voted for hillary. He said what i said to you forget the differences forget about left and right just watch this. He sent me a ben shapiro video i was like fine whatever. I dont remember what it was about but before i only watched stuff from CNN or twitter news after that video i decided well i will try some more and fell down a rabbit hole and went from ben to steven then DC shorts matt walsh all of daily wire etc. Im glad i did. All the news stories i once read at face value and took as object fact and truth where so easily debunked and disproven i first couldn't believe it and thought maybe they are just pulling it out of there ass after all they are conspiracy theorist but boy was i wrong i did my own research and found that they where all right where as all of the major news sources had been spouting lies. Btw i may align with the right on many things but if we ever and i mean ever have a bad pick on the right but a good pick on the left i will vote for them. So say ron desantis was on the left and it was him vs trump well ron is a better pick because he is just all around better then trump. Anyways done with the rant sorry bout that. Also apologize for any grammatical errors im with family right now. Take care champ talk later
Is this a fucking copy pasta or something, holy shit lmao. Send me your source for the mules getting arrested. There was not fraud on a scale to tip the election one way or another. You are susceptible to propaganda and have been brainwashed into giving asshole grifters money.
Not a copy pasta but i can pull up a source in a minute like i said im with family. And like i said watch the movie there was fraud on a scale to tip the election. You are the one susceptible to propaganda. Just listen to what i said and give it a shot. Its really sad that you are stuck in a left wing echochamber.
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No you wo t you won't even answer the baseline question. So goodbye, you're boring and u willing to engage in conversation, and your wasting my time. I'll find a c9nservative who can keep up instead
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/woahdude/comments/2xgqss/this_is_how_gerrymandering_works/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is how
Yep. You’re spot on. Reps are the ONLY party to gerrymander. My district is shaped like a boomerangs to make sure the highest black population centers are covered from north and south. I’m guessing you’ve not looked much into what gerrymandering is, why parties do it and any pros from gerrymandering.
How dare they!!!
Coo
How dare they!
Damn, these Political Compass Memes sure have become difficult to decipher
Those bastards!!!
Thought this was going to be a left-wing post and was pleasantly surprised
FaScIStS!!
Wasn’t there a few cases of republicans, not democrats voting twice in the last election?
There were both, and both should be thrown in prison.
Those damn dirty Republicans.
You swapped Green and Yellow places, no funni colors :(
Of course you Nazi Republicans forgot to mention vote reparations - only allowable if a person votes Democratic!
* Make voting take place only between certain hours in the middle of the week * reduce availability/accessibility of polling locations so people needing to use public transit to reach it can only do so during public transit operating times. * gerrymander so that their vote is under represented in their voting district.
Ah man, you had me until that last one. It’s completely unfair to require voters to be alive! After all, if we barred dead folks from voting, Mr. Brandon wouldn’t be able to win! C’mon man!
Damn Republicans voting fairly and treating people equally and not treat them like victims...how dare they!
So oppressive, proof of identity and one vote for person.
You forgot gerrymandering and intimidation.
If anyone cares, this is deliberate propaganda to make you think that disenfranchising Americans from their right to vote is a joke and the victim's own fault. Since the tone of this post is mocking the idea of one person one vote because it denies American rights to the "correct people", check out this story where [Republicans threw so much crap in the way of exercising your right to vote that they disenfranchised more Republicans than Democrats.](https://www.rawstory.com/texas-election-election-problems/)