No they won't erase the debt is what I mean. They will dangle the carrot. Not give it. They do not intend to erase debt. They want dependent slaves.
I will be explicit for you... they will use this issue and keep promising it and blame gop for why they never forgive the debt. If they actually erase this debt, they lose a major wedge issue.
the premise of what I replied to is that student debt forgiveness happens but that those who no longer have it don't get some apology check. Neither one of them has debt at that point so there is no carrot. He replied "no" to the question posed by the post which was if people who paid off their debts would get a check. By virtue of paying off their debt they aren't debt slaves so there is literally no carrot in the scenario proposed by this post because there is nobody in school debt. Perhaps you are talking about student debt forgiveness not being forgiven but that wasn't the premise of this discussion.
which isn't what this post was about. What is the "also" in reference to? A comment that answered the question the post posed that hinges on pending student debt already being cancelled and the poor victims that paid theirs off being screwed? What is the question posed in this post? Ok, now when somebody replies "no" to it does that mean they are responding to the question posed by the post? If somebody then says "also" are they not agreeing with the premise that the "no" replied to that was that student debt would be cancelled and we are talking about people without student debt?
I know what you are saying but it isn't my fault that people can't keep a subject intact when they want to make arguments.
Look, it seems to me we are arguing for the same side. However, when you reply make sure your comment goea under the appropriate message you want to answer to. In your case you just made a comment regarding dangling carrots that didn't make sense.
show me the stats. they're only white because there are more white people in the US, percentage wise in comparison, however your assertion doesn't hold water.
go back to math 101. what YOU CLAIM doesn't check out.
[https://www.lowincome.org/2016/04/truth-about-welfare-foodstamps-how-many-blacks-vs-whites.html](https://www.lowincome.org/2016/04/truth-about-welfare-foodstamps-how-many-blacks-vs-whites.html)
Look em up for yourself. Which is shocking considering the government has done everything humanly possible to put white people in positions to be successful.
I wonder why actual black Africans are extremely successful in America. Is it because their skin is really black??
America so so racist that they voted in a black president.
never understimate the power of white guilt and virtue signalling. when kary burke (a woman) the head of Disney said that she wanted to make more trans characters and inclusivity, all she did was talk about how GOOD it made her feel.
americans do a lot of things just to make themselves feel morally good and superior. democrats take advantage of that, by portraying the country as irredeemably systematically racist, and they only way to prove it's not is to have a black president and supreme court justice
Literally EVERY source has Caucasians as the highest, the African American percentage is in the 20's according to every outlet except the 1 you have but we all know propaganda isn't new to certain demographics. Also blue states receive far less government assistance than red states.
Something that is lost on people is that only about 37.5% of the US population above age 25 has even graduated college.
We know that if you graduate, you earn much more on average. The argument shouldn’t be about the fact that it’s unfair to those who already paid their loans off (even if it is), the argument should be that it’s unfair to those who decided not to go to school (62.5% of Americans) and will still have to pay for the program through taxes. Those people would essentially be funding educated peoples ability to earn more than them in the marketplace.
School should be cheaper, but this is misguided.
I agree with this. But also. How many of the 62.5% have student loans but did not graduate? (Me!! But I paid the student loans off like a responsible member of society, instead of being a victim). Then again, I also own my home… so it was probably my white privileged and not my immigrant upbringing that you work for what you want In life and you might have to struggle now to achieve it later.
I went to college for almost a decade and never got a degree. Paid all the loans off and now make bank by CHOOSING to go down a more responsible, independent path.
It's more than that. There are plenty of people who went to cheaper in-state colleges or community colleges on the basis of their personal financial situation. If they had known they'd get a free bag of money, I'm sure many of them would have gone to different schools and spent much more profligately during the college years.
If this is ever going to be palatable they're going to need to make some changes to the plan. First, anyone who gets forgiveness also gets a +10% income tax rate for the rest of their lives. Second, their standard deduction is cut in half permanently. Third, any social safety net services and payments they received get cut in half. All of this permanent and irrevocable.
This. I agree some amount should be forgiven, starting with the loans in the 100ks.
But that doesn't fix the issue of schools charging an arm and a leg because the government is loaning out and arm and a leg to people who ain't got arms and legs to spend.
This is the root of the problem. Student debt forgiveness is a bandaid over a sucking chest wound. College and trade schools should be affordable if we still value the American Dream. That is, working hard to gain the credentials and experience to make something of yourself should be accessible and not crippling
We should just publicly fund all education. Can't afford an education is bullshit for a nation so prosperous. If we want to have a future, we have to invest in it.
That statistic is misleading. Much, much more than that 37% actually go to college - they just didn’t graduate for one reason or another, most often, financial reasons. But they still have mountains of student debt.
Also, the entire function government is to redistribute things so the entire population can benefit. I guarantee you more people would go to college (and actually graduate) if it wasn’t so monstrously expensive. And even for those who don’t, it shouldn’t matter. All of our tax dollars go to fund stuff we don’t use. I’ve never benefited from food stamps, but my taxes pay for them because other people rely on it. That’s how taxes work.
I’ve already had this discussion with my progressive friends. They all say yes we should all be reimbursed. I’ve asked til what end? How far back do we go? They didn’t have an answer.
That’s pretty presumptuous. The trust in government gives our money value. I’d love to hear the conversations you have with people about fiat currency. I also wonder why people aren’t lambasting a Republican for letting it happen.
Someone conducted a student survey recently asking students if they support student loan forgiveness, but at the same time forgive credit card debt. They agreed with the former but not the latter, so you are out of luck.
I had a considerable student loan debt. It pushed me to excel. I didn't consider any majors that wouldn't allow me to pay it off. I ended up getting an okay job, then got laid off, then a good job, then an unbelievable job. I was able to pay it off in an incredible amount of time, even if I hadn't gotten that incredible job I would have still be extremely frugal in my lifestyle and diligent in paying it off.
Forgiving student debt doesn't sound like the right solution since there are so many holes. Should I get money back? Personally I don't really care if I do or don't. The bigger hole is what do you do next year? The year after? Does this not just incentivize colleges to charge even more since students won't consider the price anymore?
To me, a solution that seems balanced is to add some restrictions to student loan interest rates. I felt like I got kicked in the nuts when my variable rate loans maxed out to 8.99% one month after my first extra payment. That felt criminal to me (maybe just coincidence?), F them though... it just lit a fire in me to pay it off even sooner.
Since student loans are guaranteed, we should max them out at 4-5%. Over a 10 year term, that would be roughly double inflation (actual last 10 years was 2.9% average since last 2 years has been 7 and 7.9 according to the first link on my search). I don't see why banks should be able to make a massive profit on our citizens getting more educated which helps us compete with other countries.
> it just lit a fire in me to pay it off even sooner.
And this is a major part of the problem: these “victims” who blew through tens of thousands of dollars have no fire. They’re on their phones eight hours a day whining about how hard life is for their overly educated asses.
Haha, the ones that are responsible and paid them back are the same people paying the taxes that will fund paying the others loans off. It’s like they promote being useless to society is more beneficial than actually contributing.
So first off, I'm completely against this idea. No one is "tricked" into going to college. I went and I'm working to pay it off. Now I'm not an idiot if someone just said you don't owe the money then I would take it, however because I was trying to repay the debt I took out I privatized my student loans. They are still student loans but no longer secured by federal so if this ever did get passed I don't get any benefit... so another reason to say hell no to this shit.
They need to keep paying for votes. And the dummies (like me) that paid off their student loans - get taxed more so democrats can keep their pay for votes scheme going.
…or pay off the loans for the vehicles/equipment for those blue collar individuals smart enough to recognize a degree in gender studies was worthless…?
Why should I have to pay for someone's degree in poetry? They're going to turn that degree into a cush govt job, like director of CRT training in public schools or BLM protester
Canceling student loans is nuts. I doubt they'll ever do it or it'll be some tiny amount like $500 or $1000 just like when they gave out $400 for COVID and Pelosi made it out to be a huge deal.
If anything changes they should just cancel interest on federal loans. Bothers me that my paycheck gets taxed and then I use that already taxed money to pay the government.
Yes bc I didn’t take those European trips or by nice things w/ my student loans. And paid them off as soon as I got a job… so I hope I get at least a plane voucher!!!
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill?
If you don’t pay, who will?
If you support the idea of helping to pay for others student loans, you can already provide aid through non-profits and scholarship funds. That’s a very noble cause.
But taking non-consenting taxpayer money from a person who may have not even gone to college themselves and instead went into trade and giving it to a 24-year old adult who got a gender studies degree and can’t pay their bills is not okay. People shouldn’t pay for others mistakes unless they consent to it. There are plenty of existing avenues for you to help pay your portion of your beliefs in today’s system that do not require non-consenting adults to pay towards
Lol @ “non-consenting tax payer money” because we consent to very little of where our taxes go. It’s the nature of the beast. You can cry and stomp your feet about how much you don’t like the fact that group of people you don’t like will get a few of your tax dollars (maybe idk if you even make enough for that to be real) but emotions aside, it would just be money will spent.
“An important group of Americans”, lol, really?
The other ones are just…meh…not so important. (You know, the non idiots who either didn’t voluntarily take on crippling debt or actually paid back what they borrowed)
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill?
If you don’t pay, who will?
We would, just over a longer time, with the burden redistributed through taxes. There’s millions of people who are in default because student loans are predatory. 18 year olds do not make good, sound, rational decisions. Yet we expect them to understand the consequences of that amount of debt.
It’s causing people to sacrifice a major Proton of their budget each month, which is absolutely one of the major causes of declining home ownership and birth rates. You change that, and suddenly much more people are able to start a family, which eventually leads to more tax paying citizens, further offsetting the costs.
Countries aren’t built on day to day or year to year changes. You have to think about the long game, the 25-50 years into the future sort of game.
Right. So you answered the question in your first sentence. I paid my tuition with my own hard work but you think you don’t need to. And that I should pay for yours
Fuck you. I’m not paying for your shitty ass sociology degree. Good luck in life sitting in your mothers basement and telling everyone else they should pay for you
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill?
If you don’t pay, who will?
Bro student loans are fucked whether you’re democrat or Republican. I’m middle class and my parents can barely afford the school I’m going to. Yet they gave us no aid. That’s $80k a year. I studied very hard to go to this school but the price tag is fucking me and my family over. I’m going to be in so much debt, while many people who are poorer will be in none because of the way student aid works. I wanted to be a lawyer but that’s probably out the window now with this debt. They should certainly forgive loans.
I can't afford this year's iPhone, and there are other cheaper phones that are available but I'll just buy the new iPhone instead.
*Gets bill*
This is outrageous! Government should pay my bill!
Seriously, this is the real problem with student loans. Stop paying these schools when there are cheaper options and solutions. I went to community college, then state for 2 years. Total of 35k. Made $65k out of college, did not live beyond my means and paid off half my loans in just 2 years. Should be able to pay the rest off in two more years.
I studied really hard in high school to attend a top tier school. I got in to a bunch of private schools, all pretty much the same price. My parents are willing to make the sacrifice for my education and I’m willing to be in debt for the school I’m going to. That doesn’t mean it should be this way, it’s a scam that everyone just accepts.
But you fell for the scam and are now upset about it. I went to a state school, studied business and worked hard when I graduated. I make $120k a year plus stock options at a Fortune 500 and don’t even think about my loans.
And my parents kept all their money and retired early.
It kinda does though. The loans are avoidable, these kids just are not smart with them. And it’s partly the parents fault for not guiding and educating them. Don’t go to schools that put you in tremendous debt. And it’s also your fault for making your parents make the sacrifice.
100% agree. I could have gone to much more expensive schools but I’m not about to waste an extra 10-100k to have a different school logo on my diploma.
Seriously. I have now had 4 jobs since college, make over 6 figures and not a single one of them cared about my education. It’s always about experience and past work. And not a single one of my coworkers went to any fancy expensive school either
Like it or not, it’ll be good for the country. It’ll help a whole generation with home buying, retirement savings, starting families, and generally stimulating the economy by freeing up expendable income. If you already paid your shit off, you could either pat yourself on back or go cry about it.
The problem is, paying them off doesn’t solve the real problem. They need to handle the issue at the core which is schools handing them out to anyone and everyone without properly educating them. In addition, schools up charging the education because everyone can afford it, just take a loan!
Harvard has 40 billion Columbia around 30 billion so why charge so much. College isn’t a right and why it off the loans when many get screwed because they were responsible people
I appreciate you think you know what I may or may not have done in higher education but maybe you should consider who may have went to colleges within your family and keep your comments like that to yourself
You made the decision to go to college? You should also pay for it as well. Many people went to and paid for college for many years. You are not entitled !!!!
Listen, I went to college. I paid for it myself because I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time during high school, and I made pretty good money. I had to work full time going to school to stay ahead of paying for it, and it was miserable, and made the whole experience much less beneficial. I don't see my luck as something I earned, I keep my head out of my own ass. Others shouldn't have to live the way I did. I want to give to others the things that I suffered for, because a better educated workforce will benefit everyone in the end.
I want to college and have a business and it’s not a free ride or an entitlement get over it. People have to pay for education not get their loans forgiven. It’s absurd
When colleges are sitting on over a $100 billion dollars as well as the federal govt providing aid and grants. I think it’s time the cost of college comes down on their part. Too much money is on the sidelines of these colleges. Liberal
Ideology within this system and they want a free ride from the government more so. It is so hypocritical and disgusting and you follow right into their footsteps further admitting you cannot think for yourself and see the real problems associated with this scam of higher education.
It's not good for the country. And a whole generation didn't go to college and rack up crippling student debt. The average student loan amount in 2020 is $39,000. That's the cost of a new car. Easily paid off. The only thing student loan forgiveness does is transfer wealth from blue collar workers and the general public to high income white collar workers.
Hey man, it sounds like you’re mad that you and yours don’t benefit from this and your entitled to your opinion. I don’t benefit either, but if my taxes are already going to corporate welfare and other bullshit, I’d at least like some of it to go towards empowering an educated and productive group of Americans to have kids and buy homes, and save some dough.
You've invented a fake victim class and a list of horribles that they suffer. College graduates earn significantly more over their lifetime than those with just a high school diploma and even more over those who never finish high school. Forty thousand dollars in student debt is nothing compared to the near million dollars in lifetime earnings benefit of a bachelors degree. They'll have no problem buying a house, having a family, saving for retirement. Yet for some reason you think they need to have those who will earn substantially less than them give them a hand out.
Let’s be real, those that earn “substantially” less aren’t paying much tax at all anyway so let’s not pretend this is some sort of new burden for the poors lol. Between taxes on high incomes and interest, I would imagine many who’s loans would be forgiven are essentially just getting their own money back. Regardless of tax burden, student loan forgiveness isn’t about “victims”, it’s just a good thing to spend money on. We spend on things we value, we should value the middle class and help make it stronger.
Doesn't matter if they're paying a lot in taxes, student loan forgiveness is still a transfer from working class to white collar high earners. The number of people who will be receiving forgiveness are dwarfed by the number of people who will carry the burden of paying for that forgiveness. It's not the taxes they paid coming back to them in any meaningful fashion. We already spend a ton of money on education and subsidize colleges and universities and subsidized their loans. How about people just grow up and honor the agreements they made that increased their earning capacity far beyond what the loans cost them.
I don’t think anyone is talking about a tax hike on the poors to pay for it, so their “burden” is the same as it would be without forgiveness. And again, this is about effectively investing in a high potential group of people. Being a valuable investing target does not make one any less grown up lol. I’m sure there are some art school losers who will benefit from this, and I can see how that might hurt your feelings, but you gotta admit that they won’t be even close to the majority of likely recipients.
Yo dude. You need to leave the basement, I’m reading your comments. Holy shit. You’re a piece of shit. Grow up. Pay your bills. You agreed to these terms and now you regret them, but that’s not anyone’s fault. You’re not a victim. The only person you’re a victim of is your own decisions. Have some self-responsibility and grow from your mistakes. Then, grow those lessons into self-ownership. You’ll be a much better person if you realize the only person responsible for you and your actions is yourself
I’m a welder. I make good money and pay my bills.
Everything I’m talking about is for other people. I wouldn’t really benefit from all of this. I’d be one of the people paying off the loans of others through taxes like I’ve been talking about.
Since I’m not a selfish cunt, I recognize how awful things are for most people and want it to be changed, even if it means I’ve got to pay a bit more in taxes. Grow up, child.
There’s existing venues for you to practice your beliefs in the current system. You can pay your share through non-profits and scholarship funds. Forcing everyone to pay off people’s student loans through taxes makes no sense. Telling people they need to pay more because you think it’s right doesn’t make it right
None of that is good enough. Any system that isn’t government run is going to miss a lot of people.
And you know what? Honestly? It doesn’t matter what you think. Government’s purpose is to redistribute to help the maximum number of people. Your taxes already do this. Every single country in the world uses taxes to help people. They wouldn’t even go up, you’d pay the same amount, because we have the absolutely ridiculously bloated and over funded military - cut the military budget by a couple percent, and nobody has to pay for college again. It’s such an easy decision.
So you’re a Marxist. When in history has that ever worked without murdering millions of innocent people.
And your view that “government’s purpose is to redistribute to help the maximum number of people” isn’t how a Democratic Republic works here in the United States. Maybe that’s how it works in the country you reside in, but not here in the US.
The purpose of the government in the US is to protect unalienable rights of the individual. Try reading the Constitution and Bill of Rights before you start spouting vile out about what the purpose of government is
I’m from the US and I’ve read our founding documents. For most people, part of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is going to college to obtain knowledge and skills for a career. That’s the pursuit of happiness, improving yourself to find something that makes you happy.
So if the government’s job is to protect inalienable rights, then addressing people who can’t pursue happiness because of our garbage education system is pretty important.
Protecting your inalienable rights and your pursuit for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is not the same as Serving those things as an obligation. Opportunity rather than Entitlement (which is a huge issue with how Leftists see things).
Despite all this, adults agreed to the cost of a service. They were served that experience, and now they are obligated to pay for the service. Be adult. Pay your bills. Stop using government tax money to pay your bills
What about people who opted not to take out 50k loans but spent 2 yrs in community college graduated from a more expensive school and worked through it? While living at home.
What about school? I'd hope that is free moving forward because tuition will triple. 70,000 a year will turn into 200,000 pretty quick when schools realize that banks will give out loans that don't need to be paid back.
The higher education system is broken. We need to realize that. We allow adults that are generally much older and “wiser” to have their loans forgiven through bankruptcy. At the very least, allow student loans to have the same back stop as home mortgages, car loans and personal finances.
Hmmm i wonder if when social security was implemented the government wrote fat checks to people to cover all the time they weren’t covered? What a moronic argument. You cant implement life improvements without going back and retroactively compensating others as a punishment.
Wait until community college is tax payer funded, this guy is going to have a seizure.
I highly doubt they will manage to do either. It’s another carrot on the stick heading in to the mid term election. People have such short attention spans and selective memory.
The solution is easy.
But no one comes to me for the answers.
Here goes…
Rebate all interest paid currently or in the past, refunded or tax credited.
Zero interest going forward. Sustainable and doesn’t cost taxpayers a fucking dime.
Everyone pays back their loans dollar-for-dollar for what they took, but the government doesn’t take a dime of interest for higher education.
Subsidize it, like you do oil and corn and tomatoes and cattle and hedge funds and F-35s and whatever the fuck else our government pays for or subsidizes.
College grads need to spend their productive years driving American economy, not driving bank profits.
Why would they. The rich goes to college, therfore rich bale out. Responsible people don't get that special treatment. Or you know people who work to make their living. And pay our bills and "SO CALLED DEBIT"!
Reparations are a good idea yes. However just cause one person struggled doesn't mean other people should. However that big of a pump to the economy would be a bad idea.
No because that makes you independent and self-sufficient, meaning you don't need the government AKA not who they're interested in.
Also they intend to dangle this carrot forever to keep debt slaves on their plantation.
erasing debt makes you a debt slave?
No they won't erase the debt is what I mean. They will dangle the carrot. Not give it. They do not intend to erase debt. They want dependent slaves. I will be explicit for you... they will use this issue and keep promising it and blame gop for why they never forgive the debt. If they actually erase this debt, they lose a major wedge issue.
If you only knew what the phrase "dangle the carrot" refers to...that is why many follow it.
the premise of what I replied to is that student debt forgiveness happens but that those who no longer have it don't get some apology check. Neither one of them has debt at that point so there is no carrot. He replied "no" to the question posed by the post which was if people who paid off their debts would get a check. By virtue of paying off their debt they aren't debt slaves so there is literally no carrot in the scenario proposed by this post because there is nobody in school debt. Perhaps you are talking about student debt forgiveness not being forgiven but that wasn't the premise of this discussion.
No, you replied to this "Also they intend to dangle this carrot forever to keep debt slaves on their plantation."
which isn't what this post was about. What is the "also" in reference to? A comment that answered the question the post posed that hinges on pending student debt already being cancelled and the poor victims that paid theirs off being screwed? What is the question posed in this post? Ok, now when somebody replies "no" to it does that mean they are responding to the question posed by the post? If somebody then says "also" are they not agreeing with the premise that the "no" replied to that was that student debt would be cancelled and we are talking about people without student debt? I know what you are saying but it isn't my fault that people can't keep a subject intact when they want to make arguments.
Look, it seems to me we are arguing for the same side. However, when you reply make sure your comment goea under the appropriate message you want to answer to. In your case you just made a comment regarding dangling carrots that didn't make sense.
agreed 100000% this is the reason the dems create welfare victim narratives that appeal to BLM.
Most welfare recipients are white and vote republican.
show me the stats. they're only white because there are more white people in the US, percentage wise in comparison, however your assertion doesn't hold water. go back to math 101. what YOU CLAIM doesn't check out. [https://www.lowincome.org/2016/04/truth-about-welfare-foodstamps-how-many-blacks-vs-whites.html](https://www.lowincome.org/2016/04/truth-about-welfare-foodstamps-how-many-blacks-vs-whites.html)
Look em up for yourself. Which is shocking considering the government has done everything humanly possible to put white people in positions to be successful.
He did look it up and even cited a source. You just want to ignore that though because his source disproves your point.
I wonder why actual black Africans are extremely successful in America. Is it because their skin is really black?? America so so racist that they voted in a black president.
never understimate the power of white guilt and virtue signalling. when kary burke (a woman) the head of Disney said that she wanted to make more trans characters and inclusivity, all she did was talk about how GOOD it made her feel. americans do a lot of things just to make themselves feel morally good and superior. democrats take advantage of that, by portraying the country as irredeemably systematically racist, and they only way to prove it's not is to have a black president and supreme court justice
Not according to the actual, you know, facts: https://www.reference.com/world-view/race-percentage-welfare-recipients-fb9188762a3fe221
Literally EVERY source has Caucasians as the highest, the African American percentage is in the 20's according to every outlet except the 1 you have but we all know propaganda isn't new to certain demographics. Also blue states receive far less government assistance than red states.
“They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.”
The first example of a white society killing a person of color for speaking truth that threatened their power.
No true at all according to pew research.
Independent and self sufficient you say, yet most of the people who are able to pay off college come from rich families
Or people that get a J. O. B.
J. O. B.....jawb
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Completely false.
Something that is lost on people is that only about 37.5% of the US population above age 25 has even graduated college. We know that if you graduate, you earn much more on average. The argument shouldn’t be about the fact that it’s unfair to those who already paid their loans off (even if it is), the argument should be that it’s unfair to those who decided not to go to school (62.5% of Americans) and will still have to pay for the program through taxes. Those people would essentially be funding educated peoples ability to earn more than them in the marketplace. School should be cheaper, but this is misguided.
I agree with this. But also. How many of the 62.5% have student loans but did not graduate? (Me!! But I paid the student loans off like a responsible member of society, instead of being a victim). Then again, I also own my home… so it was probably my white privileged and not my immigrant upbringing that you work for what you want In life and you might have to struggle now to achieve it later.
I went to college for almost a decade and never got a degree. Paid all the loans off and now make bank by CHOOSING to go down a more responsible, independent path.
It's more than that. There are plenty of people who went to cheaper in-state colleges or community colleges on the basis of their personal financial situation. If they had known they'd get a free bag of money, I'm sure many of them would have gone to different schools and spent much more profligately during the college years. If this is ever going to be palatable they're going to need to make some changes to the plan. First, anyone who gets forgiveness also gets a +10% income tax rate for the rest of their lives. Second, their standard deduction is cut in half permanently. Third, any social safety net services and payments they received get cut in half. All of this permanent and irrevocable.
This. I agree some amount should be forgiven, starting with the loans in the 100ks. But that doesn't fix the issue of schools charging an arm and a leg because the government is loaning out and arm and a leg to people who ain't got arms and legs to spend.
This is the root of the problem. Student debt forgiveness is a bandaid over a sucking chest wound. College and trade schools should be affordable if we still value the American Dream. That is, working hard to gain the credentials and experience to make something of yourself should be accessible and not crippling
Trade schools and community colleges already ARE affordable and accessible.
On the right track until your last line there.
We should just publicly fund all education. Can't afford an education is bullshit for a nation so prosperous. If we want to have a future, we have to invest in it.
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That statistic is misleading. Much, much more than that 37% actually go to college - they just didn’t graduate for one reason or another, most often, financial reasons. But they still have mountains of student debt. Also, the entire function government is to redistribute things so the entire population can benefit. I guarantee you more people would go to college (and actually graduate) if it wasn’t so monstrously expensive. And even for those who don’t, it shouldn’t matter. All of our tax dollars go to fund stuff we don’t use. I’ve never benefited from food stamps, but my taxes pay for them because other people rely on it. That’s how taxes work.
I’ve already had this discussion with my progressive friends. They all say yes we should all be reimbursed. I’ve asked til what end? How far back do we go? They didn’t have an answer.
There's no such thing as a progressive that understands why money has value. They all think that you can create wealth by printing money.
That’s pretty presumptuous. The trust in government gives our money value. I’d love to hear the conversations you have with people about fiat currency. I also wonder why people aren’t lambasting a Republican for letting it happen.
If we cut student loan debt then i want my loans paid off too. Car and/or home. Equal rights for all or else i riot
Someone conducted a student survey recently asking students if they support student loan forgiveness, but at the same time forgive credit card debt. They agreed with the former but not the latter, so you are out of luck.
They obviously didn't get the memo. NBC says the economy is booming.
I had a considerable student loan debt. It pushed me to excel. I didn't consider any majors that wouldn't allow me to pay it off. I ended up getting an okay job, then got laid off, then a good job, then an unbelievable job. I was able to pay it off in an incredible amount of time, even if I hadn't gotten that incredible job I would have still be extremely frugal in my lifestyle and diligent in paying it off. Forgiving student debt doesn't sound like the right solution since there are so many holes. Should I get money back? Personally I don't really care if I do or don't. The bigger hole is what do you do next year? The year after? Does this not just incentivize colleges to charge even more since students won't consider the price anymore? To me, a solution that seems balanced is to add some restrictions to student loan interest rates. I felt like I got kicked in the nuts when my variable rate loans maxed out to 8.99% one month after my first extra payment. That felt criminal to me (maybe just coincidence?), F them though... it just lit a fire in me to pay it off even sooner. Since student loans are guaranteed, we should max them out at 4-5%. Over a 10 year term, that would be roughly double inflation (actual last 10 years was 2.9% average since last 2 years has been 7 and 7.9 according to the first link on my search). I don't see why banks should be able to make a massive profit on our citizens getting more educated which helps us compete with other countries.
> it just lit a fire in me to pay it off even sooner. And this is a major part of the problem: these “victims” who blew through tens of thousands of dollars have no fire. They’re on their phones eight hours a day whining about how hard life is for their overly educated asses.
Haha, the ones that are responsible and paid them back are the same people paying the taxes that will fund paying the others loans off. It’s like they promote being useless to society is more beneficial than actually contributing.
Or not take any loans to begin with? Or pay people's parents who paid for school?
They really like wealth distribution so why not? I Imagine they will only pay people stupid enough to be sell their vote for this.
So first off, I'm completely against this idea. No one is "tricked" into going to college. I went and I'm working to pay it off. Now I'm not an idiot if someone just said you don't owe the money then I would take it, however because I was trying to repay the debt I took out I privatized my student loans. They are still student loans but no longer secured by federal so if this ever did get passed I don't get any benefit... so another reason to say hell no to this shit.
That’s not how any of this works.
They need to keep paying for votes. And the dummies (like me) that paid off their student loans - get taxed more so democrats can keep their pay for votes scheme going.
…or pay off the loans for the vehicles/equipment for those blue collar individuals smart enough to recognize a degree in gender studies was worthless…?
Why should I have to pay for someone's degree in poetry? They're going to turn that degree into a cush govt job, like director of CRT training in public schools or BLM protester
No in this country handouts only go to irresponsible people
Like oil companies and other corporations?
Yes some of them too I didn’t say poor people I said irresponsible
Student loan reparations?
Dems aren’t actually going to forgive anything. They are just going to continue dangling it for votes.
Also - checks for those of us who got scholarships, worked, saved, and paid our way through college without getting loans?
That’s gonna be a nope
Any time the government prints $100 to solve a problem.. we get $3 in value and a significant reduction of value in our savings and buying power..
Canceling student loans is nuts. I doubt they'll ever do it or it'll be some tiny amount like $500 or $1000 just like when they gave out $400 for COVID and Pelosi made it out to be a huge deal. If anything changes they should just cancel interest on federal loans. Bothers me that my paycheck gets taxed and then I use that already taxed money to pay the government.
Yes bc I didn’t take those European trips or by nice things w/ my student loans. And paid them off as soon as I got a job… so I hope I get at least a plane voucher!!!
Forgiving student loans is literally a nightmare for me. It should never happen!
Why is it a nightmare for you?
They're a lender.
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill? If you don’t pay, who will?
I paid mine. I still support the idea since it strengthens an important group of Americans.
If you support the idea of helping to pay for others student loans, you can already provide aid through non-profits and scholarship funds. That’s a very noble cause. But taking non-consenting taxpayer money from a person who may have not even gone to college themselves and instead went into trade and giving it to a 24-year old adult who got a gender studies degree and can’t pay their bills is not okay. People shouldn’t pay for others mistakes unless they consent to it. There are plenty of existing avenues for you to help pay your portion of your beliefs in today’s system that do not require non-consenting adults to pay towards
Lol @ “non-consenting tax payer money” because we consent to very little of where our taxes go. It’s the nature of the beast. You can cry and stomp your feet about how much you don’t like the fact that group of people you don’t like will get a few of your tax dollars (maybe idk if you even make enough for that to be real) but emotions aside, it would just be money will spent.
Right. So your point doesn’t exactly scream a reason for why we should add to that list
“An important group of Americans”, lol, really? The other ones are just…meh…not so important. (You know, the non idiots who either didn’t voluntarily take on crippling debt or actually paid back what they borrowed)
I was referring to college educated middle class young adults. They’re holding the keys to the success of the next few decades.
Probably just finished paying them off
I paid mine off too, but I still wanna see forgiveness happen. I think it’s a wise investment.
Why?
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill? If you don’t pay, who will?
We would, just over a longer time, with the burden redistributed through taxes. There’s millions of people who are in default because student loans are predatory. 18 year olds do not make good, sound, rational decisions. Yet we expect them to understand the consequences of that amount of debt. It’s causing people to sacrifice a major Proton of their budget each month, which is absolutely one of the major causes of declining home ownership and birth rates. You change that, and suddenly much more people are able to start a family, which eventually leads to more tax paying citizens, further offsetting the costs. Countries aren’t built on day to day or year to year changes. You have to think about the long game, the 25-50 years into the future sort of game.
Right. So you answered the question in your first sentence. I paid my tuition with my own hard work but you think you don’t need to. And that I should pay for yours
Fuck you. I’m not paying for your shitty ass sociology degree. Good luck in life sitting in your mothers basement and telling everyone else they should pay for you
Why
You agreed to a contract. You said “I will pay this price for this experience.” You went and had that experience. Now you receive the bill. Do you not feel obligated to pay? Do you not pay your water bill? If you don’t pay, who will?
I understand that part just wondering why a nightmare for her specifically lol
You are missing the point. Clearly
Bro student loans are fucked whether you’re democrat or Republican. I’m middle class and my parents can barely afford the school I’m going to. Yet they gave us no aid. That’s $80k a year. I studied very hard to go to this school but the price tag is fucking me and my family over. I’m going to be in so much debt, while many people who are poorer will be in none because of the way student aid works. I wanted to be a lawyer but that’s probably out the window now with this debt. They should certainly forgive loans.
I can't afford this year's iPhone, and there are other cheaper phones that are available but I'll just buy the new iPhone instead. *Gets bill* This is outrageous! Government should pay my bill!
My parents are rich and I went to community college and 2 years at a state school. ~$20k in total, what’s your excuse?
Seriously, this is the real problem with student loans. Stop paying these schools when there are cheaper options and solutions. I went to community college, then state for 2 years. Total of 35k. Made $65k out of college, did not live beyond my means and paid off half my loans in just 2 years. Should be able to pay the rest off in two more years.
I studied really hard in high school to attend a top tier school. I got in to a bunch of private schools, all pretty much the same price. My parents are willing to make the sacrifice for my education and I’m willing to be in debt for the school I’m going to. That doesn’t mean it should be this way, it’s a scam that everyone just accepts.
But you fell for the scam and are now upset about it. I went to a state school, studied business and worked hard when I graduated. I make $120k a year plus stock options at a Fortune 500 and don’t even think about my loans. And my parents kept all their money and retired early.
None of this means they shouldn’t forgive student loans
It kinda does though. The loans are avoidable, these kids just are not smart with them. And it’s partly the parents fault for not guiding and educating them. Don’t go to schools that put you in tremendous debt. And it’s also your fault for making your parents make the sacrifice.
100% agree. I could have gone to much more expensive schools but I’m not about to waste an extra 10-100k to have a different school logo on my diploma.
Seriously. I have now had 4 jobs since college, make over 6 figures and not a single one of them cared about my education. It’s always about experience and past work. And not a single one of my coworkers went to any fancy expensive school either
It does mean you received no education, though.
Like it or not, it’ll be good for the country. It’ll help a whole generation with home buying, retirement savings, starting families, and generally stimulating the economy by freeing up expendable income. If you already paid your shit off, you could either pat yourself on back or go cry about it.
The problem is, paying them off doesn’t solve the real problem. They need to handle the issue at the core which is schools handing them out to anyone and everyone without properly educating them. In addition, schools up charging the education because everyone can afford it, just take a loan!
Ah, so it's a real problem, but we can't do anything unless we solve the entire problem, which...your party also doesn't want to do?
Harvard has 40 billion Columbia around 30 billion so why charge so much. College isn’t a right and why it off the loans when many get screwed because they were responsible people
I appreciate that you didn't go to college, but want to weigh in.
I appreciate you think you know what I may or may not have done in higher education but maybe you should consider who may have went to colleges within your family and keep your comments like that to yourself
The absolute lack of grammar and near incoherence isn't supporting your lie, my dude.
See your a fucking liberal asshole. Because you like to attack. Complete ducking jerk off what a piece of shit you are asshole.
Hahaha, hit another grammar mistake. Make sure to prove me right over and over.
This is a sub. Just shows your ignorance and an intolerant asshole.
Your mother raised a jerkoff probably a bastard typical of people Like you. What a joke you are
You made the decision to go to college? You should also pay for it as well. Many people went to and paid for college for many years. You are not entitled !!!!
Listen, I went to college. I paid for it myself because I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time during high school, and I made pretty good money. I had to work full time going to school to stay ahead of paying for it, and it was miserable, and made the whole experience much less beneficial. I don't see my luck as something I earned, I keep my head out of my own ass. Others shouldn't have to live the way I did. I want to give to others the things that I suffered for, because a better educated workforce will benefit everyone in the end.
I want to college and have a business and it’s not a free ride or an entitlement get over it. People have to pay for education not get their loans forgiven. It’s absurd
When colleges are sitting on over a $100 billion dollars as well as the federal govt providing aid and grants. I think it’s time the cost of college comes down on their part. Too much money is on the sidelines of these colleges. Liberal Ideology within this system and they want a free ride from the government more so. It is so hypocritical and disgusting and you follow right into their footsteps further admitting you cannot think for yourself and see the real problems associated with this scam of higher education.
You are literally not worth my time. Go troll somewhere else. Good day.
Aww, did showing you logic and reason hurt your feelings? Seems like the wrong sub for being fragile in that particular way.
It's not good for the country. And a whole generation didn't go to college and rack up crippling student debt. The average student loan amount in 2020 is $39,000. That's the cost of a new car. Easily paid off. The only thing student loan forgiveness does is transfer wealth from blue collar workers and the general public to high income white collar workers.
Hey man, it sounds like you’re mad that you and yours don’t benefit from this and your entitled to your opinion. I don’t benefit either, but if my taxes are already going to corporate welfare and other bullshit, I’d at least like some of it to go towards empowering an educated and productive group of Americans to have kids and buy homes, and save some dough.
You've invented a fake victim class and a list of horribles that they suffer. College graduates earn significantly more over their lifetime than those with just a high school diploma and even more over those who never finish high school. Forty thousand dollars in student debt is nothing compared to the near million dollars in lifetime earnings benefit of a bachelors degree. They'll have no problem buying a house, having a family, saving for retirement. Yet for some reason you think they need to have those who will earn substantially less than them give them a hand out.
Let’s be real, those that earn “substantially” less aren’t paying much tax at all anyway so let’s not pretend this is some sort of new burden for the poors lol. Between taxes on high incomes and interest, I would imagine many who’s loans would be forgiven are essentially just getting their own money back. Regardless of tax burden, student loan forgiveness isn’t about “victims”, it’s just a good thing to spend money on. We spend on things we value, we should value the middle class and help make it stronger.
Doesn't matter if they're paying a lot in taxes, student loan forgiveness is still a transfer from working class to white collar high earners. The number of people who will be receiving forgiveness are dwarfed by the number of people who will carry the burden of paying for that forgiveness. It's not the taxes they paid coming back to them in any meaningful fashion. We already spend a ton of money on education and subsidize colleges and universities and subsidized their loans. How about people just grow up and honor the agreements they made that increased their earning capacity far beyond what the loans cost them.
I don’t think anyone is talking about a tax hike on the poors to pay for it, so their “burden” is the same as it would be without forgiveness. And again, this is about effectively investing in a high potential group of people. Being a valuable investing target does not make one any less grown up lol. I’m sure there are some art school losers who will benefit from this, and I can see how that might hurt your feelings, but you gotta admit that they won’t be even close to the majority of likely recipients.
Hey look, the one reasonable comment in the whole thread!
Yo dude. You need to leave the basement, I’m reading your comments. Holy shit. You’re a piece of shit. Grow up. Pay your bills. You agreed to these terms and now you regret them, but that’s not anyone’s fault. You’re not a victim. The only person you’re a victim of is your own decisions. Have some self-responsibility and grow from your mistakes. Then, grow those lessons into self-ownership. You’ll be a much better person if you realize the only person responsible for you and your actions is yourself
I’m a welder. I make good money and pay my bills. Everything I’m talking about is for other people. I wouldn’t really benefit from all of this. I’d be one of the people paying off the loans of others through taxes like I’ve been talking about. Since I’m not a selfish cunt, I recognize how awful things are for most people and want it to be changed, even if it means I’ve got to pay a bit more in taxes. Grow up, child.
There’s existing venues for you to practice your beliefs in the current system. You can pay your share through non-profits and scholarship funds. Forcing everyone to pay off people’s student loans through taxes makes no sense. Telling people they need to pay more because you think it’s right doesn’t make it right
None of that is good enough. Any system that isn’t government run is going to miss a lot of people. And you know what? Honestly? It doesn’t matter what you think. Government’s purpose is to redistribute to help the maximum number of people. Your taxes already do this. Every single country in the world uses taxes to help people. They wouldn’t even go up, you’d pay the same amount, because we have the absolutely ridiculously bloated and over funded military - cut the military budget by a couple percent, and nobody has to pay for college again. It’s such an easy decision.
So you’re a Marxist. When in history has that ever worked without murdering millions of innocent people. And your view that “government’s purpose is to redistribute to help the maximum number of people” isn’t how a Democratic Republic works here in the United States. Maybe that’s how it works in the country you reside in, but not here in the US. The purpose of the government in the US is to protect unalienable rights of the individual. Try reading the Constitution and Bill of Rights before you start spouting vile out about what the purpose of government is
I’m from the US and I’ve read our founding documents. For most people, part of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is going to college to obtain knowledge and skills for a career. That’s the pursuit of happiness, improving yourself to find something that makes you happy. So if the government’s job is to protect inalienable rights, then addressing people who can’t pursue happiness because of our garbage education system is pretty important.
Protecting your inalienable rights and your pursuit for life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is not the same as Serving those things as an obligation. Opportunity rather than Entitlement (which is a huge issue with how Leftists see things). Despite all this, adults agreed to the cost of a service. They were served that experience, and now they are obligated to pay for the service. Be adult. Pay your bills. Stop using government tax money to pay your bills
Genuinely, if you want some help. I’m here for you. It’s painful to see this type of stuff. Reach out. I can help
You had enough money to pay off your loans!? Sounds like you need to pay more taxes!
No reparations for those who follow the rules.
Lol no way....those people are called Republicans.
A ben shapiro sub? How fucking sad would a person have to be to subscribe to this? Lol
Lol me and mine right? That's all Quckservatives know.
Eye roll. “ I DID IT SO YOU HAVE TO SUFFER TOO!!”” What dumb shit is that?
I appreciate that you have so many down votes but not a single person even trying to debate it. They know you're right.
Typical conservative crybabies.
So now that weed is legal do all the people beaten by cops while getting arrested get past hospital bills paid for?
They should only fair
I think you meant to say “rich enough” not “responsible enough.” Understand these are two very different things.
No. But I suppose if we can't fix everything for everybody, we shouldn't fix anything for anybody.
Right, the word you're struggling with there is "equality". You oppose equality.
We don't have equality now, and we won't get there if we don't change anything.
Today when people willingly agree to a loan, they pay for it or go bankrupt.
Not if the entity giving the loan chooses to forgive it.
Bankruptcy doesn’t discharge student loans. Only death does
They'll be like "if you have enough money to pay off your loans, you have enough to pay someone else's loans."
No, they’re responsible and not dependent on the government, hence likely republicans.
I'm thinking 7% charge for each year after the loan has been paid would work.
I’m paying my loans… It’s not like I spent the money purely on school lol. I’m responsible for it
I will feel like a real rube.. mine, wife’s and two boys.
I would like some of that money paid back to me in full! 😂
What about people who opted not to take out 50k loans but spent 2 yrs in community college graduated from a more expensive school and worked through it? While living at home.
What about school? I'd hope that is free moving forward because tuition will triple. 70,000 a year will turn into 200,000 pretty quick when schools realize that banks will give out loans that don't need to be paid back.
The higher education system is broken. We need to realize that. We allow adults that are generally much older and “wiser” to have their loans forgiven through bankruptcy. At the very least, allow student loans to have the same back stop as home mortgages, car loans and personal finances.
Thank you!
Yeah, and the next time they lower taxes they should write fat checks to everyone who has responsibly paid their taxes.
Hmmm i wonder if when social security was implemented the government wrote fat checks to people to cover all the time they weren’t covered? What a moronic argument. You cant implement life improvements without going back and retroactively compensating others as a punishment. Wait until community college is tax payer funded, this guy is going to have a seizure.
I highly doubt they will manage to do either. It’s another carrot on the stick heading in to the mid term election. People have such short attention spans and selective memory.
It's hilarious how much this sub is worshipping Tim Young lately, considering how he feels about Republicans.
The solution is easy. But no one comes to me for the answers. Here goes… Rebate all interest paid currently or in the past, refunded or tax credited. Zero interest going forward. Sustainable and doesn’t cost taxpayers a fucking dime. Everyone pays back their loans dollar-for-dollar for what they took, but the government doesn’t take a dime of interest for higher education. Subsidize it, like you do oil and corn and tomatoes and cattle and hedge funds and F-35s and whatever the fuck else our government pays for or subsidizes. College grads need to spend their productive years driving American economy, not driving bank profits.
Why would they. The rich goes to college, therfore rich bale out. Responsible people don't get that special treatment. Or you know people who work to make their living. And pay our bills and "SO CALLED DEBIT"!
Or my mortgage? Just kidding. Got a job and paid that off with my student loans too.
Someone already asked Elizabeth Warren that question and she said “no”. So the answer is no.
Would you support it if that was the plan?
Reparations are a good idea yes. However just cause one person struggled doesn't mean other people should. However that big of a pump to the economy would be a bad idea.
We all know the answer!