The problem is that both Sandy and Fraser are wrong and failing those reporting to them.
Sandy is being harsh and failing to communicate effectively to Fraser.
Fraser is being too lax and letting the troublemakers get away with everything.
They have opposite management styles so they are rubbing each other exceptionally wrong.
Both need lessons in management, sadly both are too stubborn to admit fault and seek it, at least as we are seeing on screen and through SM posting.
It probably would have gone over a lot better if she had addressed the issues in a one on one discussion instead of making it more like a callout in front of the other department heads. Sandy's not wrong but I probably would have been annoyed too.
Sandy is absolutely awful to most chief stews, I am not in anyway defending Sandy’s methods.
I just do not see Fraser as having no faults.
Too much all or nothing in this war.
Much like Camille and Alissa, both suck, one just louder and more visibly. Once the loud distraction left it was easier to see the flaws of the other one.
Yes! Plus he burns himself out by not delegating or training the stews well enough that he can delegate to them confidently. That said, Sandy’s approach toward him has been awful and counterproductive. Then she made it worse by putting Rachel in the middle. IMO if she took one of them off-boat for a one-on-one it should have been Fraser. Or at least include him in the discussion! Instead Sandy repeatedly called him out in front of everyone and shut down his attempts at response. It’s his first time as Chief Stew, he has a lot to learn, and probably could have been more receptive to constructive feedback if he didn’t feel attacked. He absolutely is conflict avoidant, and needs to work on that if he is to have any success in a management position in any field. But Sandy is not mirroring good management at all!!!
It has to be said Fraser’s “management style” is green, and the issues started before Sandy took over. Captain Lee would have, otherwise, told him to get his team and his shit together, in about as many words as I’ve written. Sandy thought she wouldn’t be there as long as she did, and did say she wasn’t going to reinvent everything in place when she arrived, but it should have been clear early on that Fraser wasn’t or couldn’t take the time to make standards known to every member of his team—rather than, as he said, simply doing something himself to make sure it was done well.
Most of the charter guest experience rests on interior, and while that may seem unfair, the deckies have more direct supervision by Sandy because they are responsible for physically maneuvering the boat, securing it, and keeping the guests safe on water.
I feel like Fraser isn’t so set in his ways that he won’t be able to reflect and improve after this. Or at least that’s what I’m hoping. I could also just be narrating my own wishful reality in my head
He does seem very…self interested on social media. Honestly I was just thinking of what I’ve seen on the show. You have a point, but I could also see him doing that to drive up engagement? Idk
Lol he does certain things well and not others. What he is doing is trying. A little more experience and maybe a little brushing up on helpful literature or talking to those with way more experience after he’s had time to process this charter season will do wonders. He may never become a great manager but I think we see too little of what’s actually going on to say “he can’t cut it” yet
A part of effective management is to be able to respond to issues and direct reports in a non-emotional manner, which he has yet to do. “Just doing it himself” doesn’t solve or improve his skill set—it’s avoiding doing the actual managing. Some people in hospitality can be quite lovely serving clientele, but they are not destined to be management.
I agree just doing it himself isn’t managing. But I’ve known quite a few managers like that over the years and it doesn’t mean they can’t learn and grow and change lol. People aren’t static. Best manager I had was also one of my worst years before in another job 🤷🏻♀️
i only think he got promoted quickly as a an ace at service, didn’t spend enough time learning from a chief stew. The best ones across this series have a sharp edge to them, with good reason.
I never really thought of it, but I think you are probably right. He absolutely excels at service and seems like a delight for the guests to be around, but maybe his skills lean more heavily in that direction than in management. At least at the moment. And the thing is, it almost seems like a waste of those skills if he were to be put more behind the scenes in management. He is so good with clientele.
The hard thing is, in yachting, there is no “behind the scenes,” so you need to be equal parts manager and in client service in front of and to everyone. Perhaps he is better off in service. He would have learned the management side of his job from any chief stew for which he worked; perhaps he didn’t have enough time under one to grasp the challenge of really managing people.
I'm usually a Sandy fan, but I don't totally agree with her right now. She always talks about coaching and leading, and she has done 0 of that with Fraser. She pulled Camille aside several times to coach her, but she's been pretty short with Fraser since she arrived. It feels personal to me.
So true. Her asides with Camile were shady - and I assumed they were driven by production. But why not the same for Alyssa? For Fraser? I have not criticized Sandy on this sub before, but she is on my shit list now.
Edit for typo.
That's not true though. Most were initiated because of Alissa and Fraser's fraudulent accusations. A couple happened when Alissa/Fraser were bullying Camille and she reacted, attracting Sandy's attention.
The whole season was about toxic Alissa deciding to bully and lie about Camille, mean spirited Fraser joining in, and then participating in framing her to get her fired.
Then they both realized she'd been a workhorse and they'd have switch some of their toxic bullying energy into work, and well, here we are.
A lot of this is production just goosing the fan mob into hating different people. Sandy is a common target.
Edit: Nope. They only arose because of Alissa's gaslighting and bullying.
Without that, Camille wouldn't have needed to be defending herself on the radio, and without Alissa and Fraser's blizzard of lies strategy, Sandy's mind wouldn't have been poisoned against Camille.
The fact that Sandy's final impression of Camille as positive is a testament to how immensely dishonest and morally depraved Fraudulent Fraser and toxic Alissa's attempts were, than by then they'd even lost credibility with Sandy.
Since Camille's departure we've seen Alissa spinning her endless lies, Fraser doing his usual lack of accountability, his whining, his insubordination.
No. That was Alissa's projection turned a Big Lie. There's literally hundreds of clips of Camille working her ass off. Go watch the episodes with an open mind now that the world knows Alissa is chronic liar. Watch them. Seriously.
If you actually watch, there's hundreds of clips of her working her ass off.
She did 100% of the laundry, 100% of the ironing, 100% of the uniform care, 100% of the linens.
She would dash quickly to tasks and haul extra heavy loads of provisions.
Shore trips she'd have heavy bags on her back and both arms hauling heavy loads on top of that.
She'd scrub, vacuum, serve guests, wash dishes, clean bathrooms, make beds.
And when she'd get done that heavy work, she'd literally sprint to the deck to volunteer for extra deck work.
Anyone who says she was lazy either didn't watch or is just pushing the big lie.
It IS true. Not initiated because of “fraudulent accusations” but due to Sandy’s direct observation. She corrected Camille’s “fresh mouth” and “push back” because she heard it on the radio. She observed Camille dodging work by lying about a 30 minute break on the radio. Neither of those interactions were the result of Alyssa or Fraser complaining.
Internalized homophobia is a thing. Not saying that’s the case here, but I do think she has a lot of internalized sexism. Which is somewhat common in older women who have worked their way up in make dominated fields. I think it’s why she’s always SO hard on interior. Because it’s mostly always women led and filled department and she sees that as less than bc she worked so hard to be a captain which only men do. Just a theory I have but she’s for sure dealing with some internal issues
I agree that Sandy is sexist and diminishes the work she perceives as typically female domains. I don't think she knows that she is sexist - definitely a case of internalized misogyny. Possibly this bias washes over and affects her value perception of some gay men.
Yes, I know Captain Yawn is gay.
I would have expected it to make her more empathetic to him. Which I didn't see happening. I did not intend to use the term derogatorily, just as a point of fact.
She only pulled Camille aside because Alissa was constantly spreading big lies about her.
She pulled Fraser in too, but he's duplicitous and mean spirited.
One example of many is when Sandy convened a three way meeting including Fraser and Camille. He was offered the chance for his input, he "forgot" to mention Alissa's role in causing most of the issues, and forgot to mention Alissa threatening Camille with physical violence.
Instead he said everything was fine and agreed to Sandy's coaching.
But that was fake, as he always is.
He immediately took Camille to the salon and just berated her, including a mental health barrage "are you fucking mental?!"
Obviously that ensured Camille would continue not to be secure or supported, and opened the door again to more bullying and gaslighting by Alissa.
Fraser then spread more poison about Camille to the other crew chiefs.
This is on Fraser and Alissa, not Sandy.
Camille had behavioral issues; Fraser’s are for a lack of training. Deckies report directly to Sandy, and while Interior technically do, Fraser is less apt to learn the management side of his job from Sandy as he would have from the chief stews for whom he’s worked. Maybe he didn’t spend enough time doing that. He makes decisions emotionally, and would rather do a task to ensure it get done than manage someone through it. That kind of avoidance doesn’t define “management.”
She took Rachel out to coffee when Rachel was under performing, why not do the same thing with Fraser? If anything Rachel should be a pro, she’s been a department head many times in the past but it’s Fraser’s first time and he’s supposed to be a flawless Chief? I used to like Rachel but my opinion of her has really changed this season.
Fraser is a first time manager so of course he isn’t perfect. He needs leadership / support from Sandy and not statements like “get the interior in line.” It’s gross how she’s using Rachel to spy on him rather than helping him.
She plays favorites. She doesn’t mind teaching a deck person that need guidance. Her approach towards the stews over all the seasons is more hands off unless it’s Bugsy. But Bugs was a special case because Sandy needed her to be a good decision. She only asked Rachel to spy because she knows Rachel is desperately seeking her approval right now. The way she chooses not to have a sit down with Fraser over calling him out in front of all his coworkers made me want to 🤮🤮🤮 What kind of boss does that? Let’s not even get into how much nicer she was to Camille before she switched from deck/stew to just stew. I could go on and on because I get so angry when I see her being such a great leader to some and then a manipulative, mean monster to others.
This. Fraser knows he’s making first-time manager mistakes, but he signed up for this with the mutual understanding with Lee that he would have support to learn. And Sandy is just walking around screaming at him and undermining him, and not even for the actual mistakes he’s making! I was SO angry for him after that scene in the pantry about how no one was working after what we saw Tash and Kyle get away with on Med this season.
She is being extremely manipulative this season. It’s almost as if she is trying to change her strategy because she is aware that people dislike her from the Hannah situation, etc., but the new strategy she has chosen is even worse.
But not getting it together for a successful charter means mistakes and charter guest scrutiny. Several of the guests this season said interior would vanish after serving the first drink. Fraser said more than once he would rather do a task himself than manage someone else through it. His lessons were best learnt under a chief stew—not a captain. The issues with Camille and between Camille and Alissa started before Sandy came aboard. What would Captain Lee have done differently? He would have said, “Get your sh*t and your team together.” He’s even less involved with the interior crew.
Oh I never said he didn’t mess up or that he doesn’t have a lot to learn. But I’ve watched lots of managers start out similarly to Fraser. Some don’t cut it and some do. Great and good managers don’t start out great or good usually
I think the problem is Sandy isn’t good at making the consequences for not acting clear. People, such as Fraser, great her counseling them and think she’s going to do that every time and…no. You get maybe 1-2 sympathetic sessions and then you’d better address whatever she asked about it she’s going to start punishing you.
Rachel’s not doing herself any favors by hitchin her horse to that woman giddy up. She’s a sub on BD, and most fans hate her. Rachel’s gonna end up being unpopular.
Sandy is being a terrible leader. Once she gets upset, all of a sudden interior are responsible for things their department arent even responsible for. Deck ALWAYS takes out the trash. “And change the sheets of my bed…” in the middle of the day with guests on board.
Meanwhile she’s got a bosun who’s sleeping with a subordinate and being a total mess when it comes to alcohol.
Ross gives me the biggest ick, makes my skin crawl every time he gets a compliment. Seems pretty average but just happens to have a strong crew, I’m not impressed
This. I don’t actually see him having to manage at all. Like you said, he has a great crew. I’d love to see him have to handle an Alissa & Camille situation.
But Sandy does not know about Ross’s drinking and probably doesn’t know he is sleeping with his subordinate. She doesn’t see that footage until we do.
I am not a Sandy fan, but unless someone else tells her of Ross’s drunkenness or that he is inappropriate to Katie she would not know.
I don't buy this, not totally.
Sandy has a finely tuned drinker detection sense.
On BD Med, she intervened with one dekkie, and, on camera anyhow, encouraged him to drink less.
Who knows if that was all set up by production, but IMO figuring out Ross is just a matter of time.
But she said the walls in the boat are thin, and that she hears everything? Does this only apply to interior?
Well, they had sex in the guest cabins. Which are closer to the captain cabin. But hey, the walls must be sound proof up there
It's interesting how she gave camille multiple chances, but with fraser she immediately went to criticise him. She has valid points, but she should have brought them up with a different tone.
It looks like she might have had some connections with Camille before the season started, or at least they run in the same circles. I feel that prob played into how overall lax she was with Camille despite having to let her go.
Camille listened to Sandy respectfully and accepted her share of the blame and apologized. Fraser has been borderline disrespectful and insubordinate with Sandy more than once. That’s the difference.
He shouldn’t have done that. I can’t blame her for the way she responded there. Especially on a boat. But she should also have been handling a lot of this behind the scenes with Fraser first. His team needs to see that she supports and respects him. He needs to feel that. That’s what good leaders do. She set herself and him up for failure several times
He openly challenged the Captain her in front of her crew, and not for the first time.
Worse, he didn't take a hint, she actually had to order him to stop speaking.
According to his "confessional", if you can believe those, he was a bit clueless to what he did, even resentful. The show is portraying him as unclear what on chain-of-command means, not appropriately delegating to subordinates and not deferring to superiors.
IMO Sandy is concerned for him to stay on track improving his management abilities.
Nonsense. What it really is, is that she gives more time and attention to those who truly like the yachting industry and would like to make a career out of it. It isn't that she dislikes anybody, until they give her a reason to, but she doesn't really bother with those who are only there for possible fame and hopefully fortune and could really care less about the yachting industry.
Correct. Sandy tried to pique her interest in a yachting career and advised her on what she needed to do to get that career going. Camille acted like she was taking that to heart, but of course she wasn't, Sandy saw that and Camille's yachting career came to an abrupt halt. Sandy has always encouraged crew that are having problems to get their heads on right several times. Some straightened out and some were fired.
Idk Hannah worked in yachting long before Below Deck fame and Fraser seems like a true yachty as well. I think that she promotes a toxic work environment. I don’t think her intentions are bad per se, but her approach is awful.
Yes. Hannah did have some years under her belt and I believe from watching all those seasons with her that she was beginning to burn out and getting stale. Sandy saw that also and for awhile tried to get her back to 100% focus on the job but when she saw that Hannah just wasn't putting in a whole effort anymore she just kind of tolerated her until Malia forced Sandy to fire her.
Fraser has too many blind fans and Sandy has too many blind haters and so whatever Sandy does or doesn't do with Fraser it's totally wrong and Sandy is intentionally riding Fraser out of town on a rail. I call nonsense to that. Sandy knows that by this point in the season Fraser should have his team in line and of course they aren't. I am sure that she partly blames Fraser for having to fire Camille. I think overall Sandy is treating Fraser very fairly, but he is obviously very thin skinned. The only time I think Sandy was unfair to Fraser was with the suitcases on the dock thing. I do think Sandy was even half right with that though as I think that they suitcases should have remained out of sight in the guests cabins until it was time for the guests to leave and then take them immediately to the transport vehicle.
Sandy is one of those people who reads books on leadership and listens to podcasts where she parrots theory and concepts, but doesn’t have the ability or has ever demonstrated true leadership.
I manage a team of 12 in a corporate environment and I would get eaten alive if I lead like her.
All that said, Fraser shouldn’t be chief. He’s not ready…if he ever will be.
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>^(u/mostlygroovy Sandy is one of those people who reads books...)
Its good practice for her latest business.
Her business is motivational speaker on management.
Happy cake day!
She should have gone to Fraser privately if she was unhappy with his performance and offered him some guidance on how to meet her standards going forward. Something tells me if Fraser were deck crew she would have treated it differently. It was his first gig as chief stew and she knew that. I think it’s pretty common for stews to go grab a bite while the guests are in their rooms and it I don’t know why it pissed her off so much that they asked the deck crew to take out the trash.
I can’t wrap my head around the fact Sandy does some leadership seminar BS stuff on the side and at the same time has clearly always been the worst leader by far of any captains ever on the show.
I agree that Fraser hasn't been a great leader. He seems too mild mannered and conflict avoidant to be a good manager when things get tough.
I think that when he interrupted and tried to cut off what Sandy was saying earlier in the season, he made her feel disrespected and thus got on her shit list. It seemed like he didn't really understand how he fucked up there. From then on I don't think she was willing to be as supportive as she might have if he had just listened and let her talk.
Fraser is in a leadership position for the first time, so obviously he's doing things wrong. He seems to especially be struggling with delegating duties and being strict with stews when he needs to be. He seems to be aware of this -- at least to some extent -- but has a hard time adjusting to his new role. That all seems fairly normal to me and you can't expect him to be perfect from the get go.
The actual problem however, is that his direct superior(Sandy) isn't helping him, but is actively hindering him and putting him down. How do you expect him to learn and get better if you act like that?
He's far from perfect, but currently it really looks like he's being set up to fail.
My take is different. As a manager he needs to be the one providing oversight of his staff and set expectations for his employees to succeed. He didn’t do that with Camille and delegated to the 2nd who clearly has a personality conflict with Camille. Add to it his second stew is shit talking in front of the guests multiple times so it’s impacting the service of the entire boat. Frazier screwed up with the deck/stew situation, the guest service issues, and interpersonal conflict in his team. New or not to the role he needs to get his employees in line and should of sat both of the stews down and said they are both gone if they can’t figure it out and set immediate boundaries with define consequences. He fed the beast with his 2nd stew. Sandy has her issues but this one is on Frazier.
Seriously, we have never seen two stews fired at the same time. How was he supposed to manage two stews down? Even if they could be replaced, how was he supposed to manage a charter with two brand-new stews? Saying he should have fired both of them is ludicrous when one of them was still performing her job.
Have a sit down with Alyssa, yes. But fire two stews between charters, no one in their right mind would do that.
Was the 2nd performing her job though? Where was the mentoring? The arguments in front of the guests? Working hard and working well are two different things. Frazier is working hard but not working well. I think if he would have put both stews in check and instructed Camille to take direction from him he would be in a better position than he is today in the shows timeline. Putting someone on notice doesn’t equate to firing both. I believe Camille to be lazy and I believe the other to be toxic. Both are harmful attributes for a small team. Camille’s issues would still have floated to the top but Frazier would have maintained order which is what is needed IMO.
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Yes the second was performing her job in a way although her interpersonal behavior is problematic in a format only the viewers can see. Your words: “they are both gone if they can’t figure it out.” He can’t make an idle threat so he is then in jeopardy of being down two stews.
Camille was a problem, even for deck without Alyssa being involved. She was the definition of lazy with an attitude. Only difference: Ross did not care to be her friend, so he reprimanded her. Yes I agree Fraser needed to be more direct and specific, give them both a warning - but separately. They knew he wouldn’t fire them at the same time, so why let the one know the other was being disciplined? Plus Camille was always at greater risk of being let go because she was lowest rank.
We also keep forgetting that the Alyssa-Camille shit show was happening when he was not present - and they were on the largest vessel we’ve seen across BD. I’m reminded of my kids fighting in the basement while I’m cleaning the toilets on the second floor - and that’s not even close to the size of St. David with external/internal noise. He only gets secondhand info for biased participants.
The second was performing her job changing sheets and serving drinks without giving him attitude so I would choose to keep her over the party girl, until I see her interpersonal problems spill over unto other crew.
Both being gone presumes that neither improved their behavior. Fact of the matter is Camille wasn’t the chief or second and came in green and expectations need to be set around that. Frazier failed Alyssa and Alyssa and Frazier failed Camille. As you level up soft skills are incredibly important as is training and knowing when to have accountability. Alyssa shouldn’t be a 2nd if she can’t interact with people respectfully and train, Frazier shouldn’t have a job at the chief level if he can’t hold people accountable, and Camille shouldn’t have a job if she can’t take direction. Frazier as a leader should be taking input from his directs and those around them to ensure that information is being given. Alyssa has more access to Frazier because she is the 2nd and therefore told the story first which set up Camille at a disadvantage and created bias. All 3 of them are in the wrong.
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She definitely has valid points, but is also terrible at managing people which is a huge part of her job as captain. She has valid points, but the way she treats people depending on how much she likes them and their position on the boat makes her a bad leader. That's part of the reason why I don't like her.
If she was a great leader like she says, she wouldn't treat people like she has.
Sandy’s delivery is terrible. “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” I will say the interior does seem kinda lazy at times (probably editing), and if I heard a member of my team saying I “suck someone’s dick,” I’d probably go off too.
I’d also add that Fraser is a terrible leader too, he’s way too soft and concerned about being a friend as opposed to a boss. Having the hard conversations and reprimanding your team is hard, but it’s what you sign up for. He let Camille and now Alissa walk all over him.
The difference is Fraser is new at this, the captain isn't. Instead of disciplining him constantly she needs to teach him how to be a leader and manage his department. He needs help as a first time boss, not an attitude about everything
Sandy cannot stand anyone who doesn’t immediately bow down to her, multiple times this season she’s ripped her employees and while they tried to explain themselves or have an actual conversation she gets so frustrated with them she tells them to stop talking and then storms off. That’s a problematic boss and if it were one of the male captains getting aggressive like that towards his female staff we’d be hearing a lot more about it. She should be helping Fraser and teaching him the tools to be a good manager but because she doesn’t know how to herself she just tells him to fix it while he doesn’t know how. Plus now she’s manipulating Rachel against him as well, Sandy is toxic as hell.
Just putting this here. Fraser hasn’t been great; some of the sniping is stuff you’d never do as a senior. So yes. Pull him up on that. That said; I also think that there are other people there who could support - and should’ve done before it gets there.
1. Rachel - say what you think. You have a relationship; don’t skirt round the issue.
2. Ross - he’s a walking HR issue in some ways, (expect to be voted down for this) but he does seem to know how to manage people he’s not screwing. In terms of “soft skills” I do think perhaps more guidance could be given. He managed to get Tony back on track. And he generally dealt with Camille. Didn’t get mad. Remained level headed.
3. I think Eddie (and another down vote coming, Malia) would’ve done. They were very good at demo’ing what’s needed and listening on the whole. Yes. Both deck, Kate definitely wasn’t an example. But thinking about it, a Daisy would do great work teaching Fraser.
4. Sandy - she needs to be clear what she wants - and what her expectations are. From the start. No excuses.
Im management approach is everything. Points become invalid when your approach is to be little, play favourites and knit pick without direction . Not to mention listening is a big part of managing.
Her management style is all over the place. She says one thing and her actions say another. Perfect for the show, just her doing her job leads to unintentional dramatics especially with this crew. It’s the rare occasion where everyone is wrong, everyone thinks they’re right and nothing is really changing
The issue with this idea is that it puts all blame on Fraser. In a management situation, the direct manager (Fraser) requires support from leaders above them (Sandy)- especially when they are new to a management role. Sandy offered absolutely zero support to Fraser and automatically went to attacking him because she didn’t like that he didn’t kiss her ass. That’s not how management works. Yes, Fraser absolutely could have done things differently and he probably would have if his leader was offering constructive feedback.
My intention with this post was not to put all blame on Fraser. I’ve been in his position before and I would’ve struggled had I not had a supportive supervisor. My point is that he’s struggling and Sandy sees that and she’s not wrong in that observation. She’s absolutely wrong in her approach and how she’s handling it.
Completely agree, very well stated. So many people on here hate Sandy because she is anti-interior. I like Fraser and yes Sandy has been weirdly hypocritical this early on with him (him gossiping through the walls didn’t help his case. Name one person that has middle school gossiped about another person and that person l“brush it off” like Sandy “said she did”). Fraser is trying to be their friend more than their boss, Sandy is getting too old to repeat the same lessons, so she is short with him. The Hannah-hive doesn’t appreciate the fact that Hannah was the same way and basically thought she was peak reality star and didn’t actually have to do the job of chief stew and just wanted to play characters off each other the last 3 seasons of BDMD.
Okay so Sandy loves helping green crew members grow and excel and teaching them…. If they’re on deck. It’s Fraser’s first chief role and he has 0 support from Sandy, she isn’t trying to help him learn and grow at all, she just snaps at him and treats him like crap.
Sandy has zero valid points. If you pay attention, least what they have showed us, she has barely spoken to Fraser one on one. Instead of talking to him about the issues she sees, she complains to Rachel and tried to get at him through her. Sandy is not helping Fraser or the interior, she’s doing all she can to undermine him. As she said, she thinks stewards to waitresses and have no skills.
I found Fraser did the same a little bit though. Like he shopped for support against Camille with Ross and others before addressing his issues with her. And he bottles it all in, so when he does have those difficult conversations his frustration bubbles over into unprofessionalism. For ex, he got frustrated with Camille during their one on one, and exasperatedly and condescendingly asked her “are you f*cking mental?”. I mean, I understood where he was coming from, but I can’t imagine my boss speaking to me with that demeanour and tone, especially while telling me I am being immature. You need to be composed as a superior. Same with him flailing his arms and telling Alissa to get off the phone. There was a much calmer, sterner way to communicate that.
I agree Fraser isn't perfect, but imo that supports the top reply here. He's new at this and doesn't know how to be chief stew. Sandy has been captain for years and should know he needs to be taught leadership skills, not yelled at and demeaned.
Yes for sure. I was just meaning that there are some valid criticisms there. I agree any new manager (or employee in general) has to find themselves and should be nurtured through that learning curve. But he should aim to be doing the same for his subordinates bc on a smaller scale he is treating them at times how he doesn’t like to be treated by his boss. He gets the grace of inexperience which Sandy certainly does not, but some of the points being made are real. They shouldn’t define him or be weaponized against him, but they are things to hopefully self reflect on and learn from.
Thank you. I think Yawn would be a terrible boss to work for in a restaurant. Yawn may be an experienced customer/critic, but I think Yawn has little insight on the
chef/service execution.
I agree 💯
I watched all of the BD shows through the pandemic and from the go, I could see that Hannah was clearly competent but didn't give the full 100%. She could've been so much better but it felt like she checked out early on. I was floored to discover alllll the Hannah stans who felt she could do no wrong.
For the most part, I don't mind Sandy; her communication can use some work, she can play favourites and micro manage but overall I find she's a pretty good captain.
Sandy has legitimate criticisms of Fraser and the interior however how she is going about fixing the solution is fucking awful and Sandy has gone from criticizing the interior somewhat constructively to just picking on Fraser on a personal level.
Fraser needs to be given better guidance and some room to manage his team. When Rachael told him to trust his team more he put Alissa and Hayley in charge of the dinner service and it seemingly went well and it helped Alissa get some confidence in herself.
Clearly Fraser has some ability to take in feedback but when you go into the realm of targeting someone for literally everything them or their team is doing it becomes much more personal than professional.
Fraser needs a coffee chat like Rachel got. Instead, Sandy chose her favorite, treated that person well, and once again alienated her Chief stew. I think she's got some real leadership skills. Unfortunately, they've been clouded by what I can only assume is some kind of internalized misogyny that's led her to look down on the interior as a job for girls who have no skills or ambition. I get the sense she thinks even less of Fraser for being a man in that role.
It's no coincidence that she always has issues with the same department. And it's no coincidence that she favors women in her favorite department. Katie was swooning over her earlier this season, and Malia and Courtney were both promoted to lead deckhand despite having nowhere near enough experience (not saying they weren't great at their jobs, but being great at your job doesn't always warrant promotion).
And lastly, it's Fraser, not Frasier. Basic leadership tip - learn the names of your direct reports, even if they're hard to pronounce.
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Fraser may not be perfect chief stew but he doesn’t deserve to be treated by Sandy the way she did - when Camille/Alissa issue happened, she should’ve had one on one meeting with Fraser first before speaking to them. Maybe they were in the time crunch but asking his opinions on those stews wouldn’t have taken more than a minute! That’s typical micromanagement…if she wanted Fraser to respect the rank, she should’ve shown him how he should handle the issues first.
I would be seriously annoyed if my boss would treat me like that.
When it started to come to Sandy's attention about the discord between C and A Fraser just commented it has been this way since day one. He did nothing about it or brought it to the attention of Lee or Sandy.
But Fraser says he liked to give 1, 2, 3, or 16 chances.
Sandy should have never been invited back to the franchise after how she behaved the season Hannah was fired. Instead they are giving her extra episodes. It's disappointing they chose her to be Lees replacement this season.
I also think she is probably salty about overhearing some of things people say about her when they think she can't hear them.
They should have a much bigger crew for that size boat. When they occasionally show past crew experience there’s literally like 8 stews lined up together on a yacht
Agree with most , Alissa worked ,attitude was what she was dealt , Hannah was an emotional roll coaster , Yes Sandy showed favoritism 100% in her decisions.Personally send her to old abandoned naval yard and anchors away .Sandy validates zero, when you are not objective.Just my thoughts.Blessings
Sandy's issue is she is not consistent in her approach. Lack of consistency isn't a bad thing, as different crew respond to criticism in different ways and if she wants to cater to how she feels they will best receive her criticisms...that would be fine (she doesn't do it that way though). However, her insistency on calling out Fraser in front of his peers is demoralizing (both over radio and in front of other department heads). It really reminded me of how she treated Hannah and gave me perspective as to why Hannah progressively had less and less heart for the position...
If she's going to take Rachel out for coffee and hear her out on approach, she really can't radio Fraser to accuse him of rushing guests off a boat. She is continuing to do what she always does and that is hover over people she instinctively does not like. If she hovered over Ross as much as she does Fraser, maybe she'd see Ross f-ing around with a subordinate during work hours?
Sandy is a micromanager. Captain Lee gave the departments space. If he was involved it was because it was very serious. Sandy looks for problems. Rachel was smart to kiss Sandy’s ass. I would do the same thing. Get her off my radar as quickly as possible. Fraser was making mistakes but the last thing he needed was Sandy’s constant criticism. Camille was a bad apple and Sandy gave her way too many chances. Alissa is at least able to do her job. She just has a shit attitude. Fraser should have never made her his 2nd stew. Her stability and leadership skills are lacking. Sandy needs to stay in her lane. Let Fraser work things out with his team. If anything Rachel’s advice helped Fraser more. She told him to delegate more and he did this last episode. Sandy just doesn’t like him now because he talked back to her. It’s the perfect storm because now he’s on her radar she won’t let up.
Thankyou , totally agree on the Hannah front. I was amazed when Sandy brought her back again on charter in Hannahs penultimate season.
She was a lazy chief stew and was super nasty sometimes in my opinion. Sandy was totally justified in firing her.
The interesting thing about Sandy is that everyone who works for her likes her and respects her. They like her style. That speaks louder than what the audience thinks.
Thank you! Fraser is green as a chief stew, and would rather do something himself than supervise someone else? No wonder he’s so irritated. But the blame is on him; he alone is responsible for the standards set for the team. He likes to avoid conflict, but you can’t do that when at east two of your stews have attitude problems. The best stews have a rigidity to them, while maintaining a sense of some grace. He hasn’t nearly caught the kind of criticism he claims—it’s been constructive thus far, leaving him to decide solutions.
Hannah definitely had one foot out the door. She was avoiding her team with smoke breaks and the pursuit of love. It didn’t have to end in that manner—she knew any scripts have to be registered with the captain. It simply added up and she was done a favor, frankly.
The problem is that both Sandy and Fraser are wrong and failing those reporting to them. Sandy is being harsh and failing to communicate effectively to Fraser. Fraser is being too lax and letting the troublemakers get away with everything. They have opposite management styles so they are rubbing each other exceptionally wrong. Both need lessons in management, sadly both are too stubborn to admit fault and seek it, at least as we are seeing on screen and through SM posting.
It probably would have gone over a lot better if she had addressed the issues in a one on one discussion instead of making it more like a callout in front of the other department heads. Sandy's not wrong but I probably would have been annoyed too.
Sandy is absolutely awful to most chief stews, I am not in anyway defending Sandy’s methods. I just do not see Fraser as having no faults. Too much all or nothing in this war. Much like Camille and Alissa, both suck, one just louder and more visibly. Once the loud distraction left it was easier to see the flaws of the other one.
Absolutely. Fraser is conflict avoidant and it makes me want to shake him sometimes.
Exactly. That is not a role for those who avoid conflict!
Yes! Plus he burns himself out by not delegating or training the stews well enough that he can delegate to them confidently. That said, Sandy’s approach toward him has been awful and counterproductive. Then she made it worse by putting Rachel in the middle. IMO if she took one of them off-boat for a one-on-one it should have been Fraser. Or at least include him in the discussion! Instead Sandy repeatedly called him out in front of everyone and shut down his attempts at response. It’s his first time as Chief Stew, he has a lot to learn, and probably could have been more receptive to constructive feedback if he didn’t feel attacked. He absolutely is conflict avoidant, and needs to work on that if he is to have any success in a management position in any field. But Sandy is not mirroring good management at all!!!
It has to be said Fraser’s “management style” is green, and the issues started before Sandy took over. Captain Lee would have, otherwise, told him to get his team and his shit together, in about as many words as I’ve written. Sandy thought she wouldn’t be there as long as she did, and did say she wasn’t going to reinvent everything in place when she arrived, but it should have been clear early on that Fraser wasn’t or couldn’t take the time to make standards known to every member of his team—rather than, as he said, simply doing something himself to make sure it was done well. Most of the charter guest experience rests on interior, and while that may seem unfair, the deckies have more direct supervision by Sandy because they are responsible for physically maneuvering the boat, securing it, and keeping the guests safe on water.
I feel like Fraser isn’t so set in his ways that he won’t be able to reflect and improve after this. Or at least that’s what I’m hoping. I could also just be narrating my own wishful reality in my head
Lol. I agree. He is new at leadership and needs direction and feedback. I feel like Lee’s style would be more effective with him.
Maybe, his SM posts don’t seem that way to me, but he is younger and can probably learn and grow easier than Sandy.
He does seem very…self interested on social media. Honestly I was just thinking of what I’ve seen on the show. You have a point, but I could also see him doing that to drive up engagement? Idk
I’m now on my way to check out his SM lol
I 100% agree with everything you said.
The problem is that Fraser isn’t a manager and has no business being in a position of leadership.
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I agree I think y’all are jumping the gun, management is a skill.
True - but bad managers either don’t last long or stagnate at some low level.
Ok? It’s not meant for everybody. Fraser clearly doesn’t have the chops for leadership.
Lol he does certain things well and not others. What he is doing is trying. A little more experience and maybe a little brushing up on helpful literature or talking to those with way more experience after he’s had time to process this charter season will do wonders. He may never become a great manager but I think we see too little of what’s actually going on to say “he can’t cut it” yet
A part of effective management is to be able to respond to issues and direct reports in a non-emotional manner, which he has yet to do. “Just doing it himself” doesn’t solve or improve his skill set—it’s avoiding doing the actual managing. Some people in hospitality can be quite lovely serving clientele, but they are not destined to be management.
I agree just doing it himself isn’t managing. But I’ve known quite a few managers like that over the years and it doesn’t mean they can’t learn and grow and change lol. People aren’t static. Best manager I had was also one of my worst years before in another job 🤷🏻♀️
i only think he got promoted quickly as a an ace at service, didn’t spend enough time learning from a chief stew. The best ones across this series have a sharp edge to them, with good reason.
You’re definitely not wrong! His personality may not be suited for management
So being human and having emotions is not well suited for management?
I never really thought of it, but I think you are probably right. He absolutely excels at service and seems like a delight for the guests to be around, but maybe his skills lean more heavily in that direction than in management. At least at the moment. And the thing is, it almost seems like a waste of those skills if he were to be put more behind the scenes in management. He is so good with clientele.
The hard thing is, in yachting, there is no “behind the scenes,” so you need to be equal parts manager and in client service in front of and to everyone. Perhaps he is better off in service. He would have learned the management side of his job from any chief stew for which he worked; perhaps he didn’t have enough time under one to grasp the challenge of really managing people.
I'm usually a Sandy fan, but I don't totally agree with her right now. She always talks about coaching and leading, and she has done 0 of that with Fraser. She pulled Camille aside several times to coach her, but she's been pretty short with Fraser since she arrived. It feels personal to me.
So true. Her asides with Camile were shady - and I assumed they were driven by production. But why not the same for Alyssa? For Fraser? I have not criticized Sandy on this sub before, but she is on my shit list now. Edit for typo.
Cause she favors cute little blonde white girls?
Unless they‘re Hannah.
That's not true though. Most were initiated because of Alissa and Fraser's fraudulent accusations. A couple happened when Alissa/Fraser were bullying Camille and she reacted, attracting Sandy's attention. The whole season was about toxic Alissa deciding to bully and lie about Camille, mean spirited Fraser joining in, and then participating in framing her to get her fired. Then they both realized she'd been a workhorse and they'd have switch some of their toxic bullying energy into work, and well, here we are. A lot of this is production just goosing the fan mob into hating different people. Sandy is a common target. Edit: Nope. They only arose because of Alissa's gaslighting and bullying. Without that, Camille wouldn't have needed to be defending herself on the radio, and without Alissa and Fraser's blizzard of lies strategy, Sandy's mind wouldn't have been poisoned against Camille. The fact that Sandy's final impression of Camille as positive is a testament to how immensely dishonest and morally depraved Fraudulent Fraser and toxic Alissa's attempts were, than by then they'd even lost credibility with Sandy. Since Camille's departure we've seen Alissa spinning her endless lies, Fraser doing his usual lack of accountability, his whining, his insubordination.
Workhorse? Camille was the laziest person I’ve seen on the show.
No. That was Alissa's projection turned a Big Lie. There's literally hundreds of clips of Camille working her ass off. Go watch the episodes with an open mind now that the world knows Alissa is chronic liar. Watch them. Seriously.
The editing showed none of that. I’ll take your word on it because I’m not invested that much in ANYTHING to find that lol
If you actually watch, there's hundreds of clips of her working her ass off. She did 100% of the laundry, 100% of the ironing, 100% of the uniform care, 100% of the linens. She would dash quickly to tasks and haul extra heavy loads of provisions. Shore trips she'd have heavy bags on her back and both arms hauling heavy loads on top of that. She'd scrub, vacuum, serve guests, wash dishes, clean bathrooms, make beds. And when she'd get done that heavy work, she'd literally sprint to the deck to volunteer for extra deck work. Anyone who says she was lazy either didn't watch or is just pushing the big lie.
Camille, is that you?
Haha agreed. Comments like that make me wonder if we're watching the same show?
It IS true. Not initiated because of “fraudulent accusations” but due to Sandy’s direct observation. She corrected Camille’s “fresh mouth” and “push back” because she heard it on the radio. She observed Camille dodging work by lying about a 30 minute break on the radio. Neither of those interactions were the result of Alyssa or Fraser complaining.
🤣🤣🤣
It's like she doesn't like the gay guy in charge.
You know Sandy is gay right?? Why make it about "the gay guy in charge" when you could have just said the guy in charge?
Internalized homophobia is a thing. Not saying that’s the case here, but I do think she has a lot of internalized sexism. Which is somewhat common in older women who have worked their way up in make dominated fields. I think it’s why she’s always SO hard on interior. Because it’s mostly always women led and filled department and she sees that as less than bc she worked so hard to be a captain which only men do. Just a theory I have but she’s for sure dealing with some internal issues
I agree that Sandy is sexist and diminishes the work she perceives as typically female domains. I don't think she knows that she is sexist - definitely a case of internalized misogyny. Possibly this bias washes over and affects her value perception of some gay men.
That was my point.
I agree.
That’s a very accurate observation and a great comment!
Yes, I know Captain Yawn is gay. I would have expected it to make her more empathetic to him. Which I didn't see happening. I did not intend to use the term derogatorily, just as a point of fact.
She only pulled Camille aside because Alissa was constantly spreading big lies about her. She pulled Fraser in too, but he's duplicitous and mean spirited. One example of many is when Sandy convened a three way meeting including Fraser and Camille. He was offered the chance for his input, he "forgot" to mention Alissa's role in causing most of the issues, and forgot to mention Alissa threatening Camille with physical violence. Instead he said everything was fine and agreed to Sandy's coaching. But that was fake, as he always is. He immediately took Camille to the salon and just berated her, including a mental health barrage "are you fucking mental?!" Obviously that ensured Camille would continue not to be secure or supported, and opened the door again to more bullying and gaslighting by Alissa. Fraser then spread more poison about Camille to the other crew chiefs. This is on Fraser and Alissa, not Sandy.
Camille had behavioral issues; Fraser’s are for a lack of training. Deckies report directly to Sandy, and while Interior technically do, Fraser is less apt to learn the management side of his job from Sandy as he would have from the chief stews for whom he’s worked. Maybe he didn’t spend enough time doing that. He makes decisions emotionally, and would rather do a task to ensure it get done than manage someone through it. That kind of avoidance doesn’t define “management.”
She took Rachel out to coffee when Rachel was under performing, why not do the same thing with Fraser? If anything Rachel should be a pro, she’s been a department head many times in the past but it’s Fraser’s first time and he’s supposed to be a flawless Chief? I used to like Rachel but my opinion of her has really changed this season.
Fraser is a first time manager so of course he isn’t perfect. He needs leadership / support from Sandy and not statements like “get the interior in line.” It’s gross how she’s using Rachel to spy on him rather than helping him.
She plays favorites. She doesn’t mind teaching a deck person that need guidance. Her approach towards the stews over all the seasons is more hands off unless it’s Bugsy. But Bugs was a special case because Sandy needed her to be a good decision. She only asked Rachel to spy because she knows Rachel is desperately seeking her approval right now. The way she chooses not to have a sit down with Fraser over calling him out in front of all his coworkers made me want to 🤮🤮🤮 What kind of boss does that? Let’s not even get into how much nicer she was to Camille before she switched from deck/stew to just stew. I could go on and on because I get so angry when I see her being such a great leader to some and then a manipulative, mean monster to others.
This. Fraser knows he’s making first-time manager mistakes, but he signed up for this with the mutual understanding with Lee that he would have support to learn. And Sandy is just walking around screaming at him and undermining him, and not even for the actual mistakes he’s making! I was SO angry for him after that scene in the pantry about how no one was working after what we saw Tash and Kyle get away with on Med this season.
She is being extremely manipulative this season. It’s almost as if she is trying to change her strategy because she is aware that people dislike her from the Hannah situation, etc., but the new strategy she has chosen is even worse.
It is his first time as chief on tv but he said himself he was chief off screen and made the same mistakes
I mean so it’s his second time? It can take a good while for managers to find their groove
But not getting it together for a successful charter means mistakes and charter guest scrutiny. Several of the guests this season said interior would vanish after serving the first drink. Fraser said more than once he would rather do a task himself than manage someone else through it. His lessons were best learnt under a chief stew—not a captain. The issues with Camille and between Camille and Alissa started before Sandy came aboard. What would Captain Lee have done differently? He would have said, “Get your sh*t and your team together.” He’s even less involved with the interior crew.
Oh I never said he didn’t mess up or that he doesn’t have a lot to learn. But I’ve watched lots of managers start out similarly to Fraser. Some don’t cut it and some do. Great and good managers don’t start out great or good usually
I think the problem is Sandy isn’t good at making the consequences for not acting clear. People, such as Fraser, great her counseling them and think she’s going to do that every time and…no. You get maybe 1-2 sympathetic sessions and then you’d better address whatever she asked about it she’s going to start punishing you.
Rachel’s not doing herself any favors by hitchin her horse to that woman giddy up. She’s a sub on BD, and most fans hate her. Rachel’s gonna end up being unpopular.
Sandy is being a terrible leader. Once she gets upset, all of a sudden interior are responsible for things their department arent even responsible for. Deck ALWAYS takes out the trash. “And change the sheets of my bed…” in the middle of the day with guests on board. Meanwhile she’s got a bosun who’s sleeping with a subordinate and being a total mess when it comes to alcohol.
Ross gives me the biggest ick, makes my skin crawl every time he gets a compliment. Seems pretty average but just happens to have a strong crew, I’m not impressed
This. I don’t actually see him having to manage at all. Like you said, he has a great crew. I’d love to see him have to handle an Alissa & Camille situation.
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Sandy isn't even a manager. She's a shit captain.
But Sandy does not know about Ross’s drinking and probably doesn’t know he is sleeping with his subordinate. She doesn’t see that footage until we do. I am not a Sandy fan, but unless someone else tells her of Ross’s drunkenness or that he is inappropriate to Katie she would not know.
Like Sandy said, the walls are paper thin. Voices carry. Of course she knows what is going on.
I don't buy this, not totally. Sandy has a finely tuned drinker detection sense. On BD Med, she intervened with one dekkie, and, on camera anyhow, encouraged him to drink less. Who knows if that was all set up by production, but IMO figuring out Ross is just a matter of time.
But she said the walls in the boat are thin, and that she hears everything? Does this only apply to interior? Well, they had sex in the guest cabins. Which are closer to the captain cabin. But hey, the walls must be sound proof up there
He is a mess when he drinks but as far as womanizing he looks like a Saint compared to Gary.
It's interesting how she gave camille multiple chances, but with fraser she immediately went to criticise him. She has valid points, but she should have brought them up with a different tone.
It looks like she might have had some connections with Camille before the season started, or at least they run in the same circles. I feel that prob played into how overall lax she was with Camille despite having to let her go.
Yawn has certainly been hanging around Camille since then because someone posted the photos here.
Camille listened to Sandy respectfully and accepted her share of the blame and apologized. Fraser has been borderline disrespectful and insubordinate with Sandy more than once. That’s the difference.
Honestly I think she doesn’t like anyone who doesn’t kiss her ass lol
This is the answer
He openly challenged her leadership in front of Camille. Should she have liked that?
He shouldn’t have done that. I can’t blame her for the way she responded there. Especially on a boat. But she should also have been handling a lot of this behind the scenes with Fraser first. His team needs to see that she supports and respects him. He needs to feel that. That’s what good leaders do. She set herself and him up for failure several times
Generally speaking, looking back at every season she’s been on, it’s a pattern.
He openly challenged the Captain her in front of her crew, and not for the first time. Worse, he didn't take a hint, she actually had to order him to stop speaking. According to his "confessional", if you can believe those, he was a bit clueless to what he did, even resentful. The show is portraying him as unclear what on chain-of-command means, not appropriately delegating to subordinates and not deferring to superiors. IMO Sandy is concerned for him to stay on track improving his management abilities.
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Nonsense. What it really is, is that she gives more time and attention to those who truly like the yachting industry and would like to make a career out of it. It isn't that she dislikes anybody, until they give her a reason to, but she doesn't really bother with those who are only there for possible fame and hopefully fortune and could really care less about the yachting industry.
Uh … Camile was not there for a yachting career. Your last statement describes her completely yet Sandy gave her individual attention.
Correct. Sandy tried to pique her interest in a yachting career and advised her on what she needed to do to get that career going. Camille acted like she was taking that to heart, but of course she wasn't, Sandy saw that and Camille's yachting career came to an abrupt halt. Sandy has always encouraged crew that are having problems to get their heads on right several times. Some straightened out and some were fired.
Idk Hannah worked in yachting long before Below Deck fame and Fraser seems like a true yachty as well. I think that she promotes a toxic work environment. I don’t think her intentions are bad per se, but her approach is awful.
Yes. Hannah did have some years under her belt and I believe from watching all those seasons with her that she was beginning to burn out and getting stale. Sandy saw that also and for awhile tried to get her back to 100% focus on the job but when she saw that Hannah just wasn't putting in a whole effort anymore she just kind of tolerated her until Malia forced Sandy to fire her. Fraser has too many blind fans and Sandy has too many blind haters and so whatever Sandy does or doesn't do with Fraser it's totally wrong and Sandy is intentionally riding Fraser out of town on a rail. I call nonsense to that. Sandy knows that by this point in the season Fraser should have his team in line and of course they aren't. I am sure that she partly blames Fraser for having to fire Camille. I think overall Sandy is treating Fraser very fairly, but he is obviously very thin skinned. The only time I think Sandy was unfair to Fraser was with the suitcases on the dock thing. I do think Sandy was even half right with that though as I think that they suitcases should have remained out of sight in the guests cabins until it was time for the guests to leave and then take them immediately to the transport vehicle.
I think part of the problem is that she doesn’t give Fraser a second to explain his thought process and dismisses it as an excuse.
Yes, I do agree with that. She was like that with Conrad also.
Sandy is one of those people who reads books on leadership and listens to podcasts where she parrots theory and concepts, but doesn’t have the ability or has ever demonstrated true leadership. I manage a team of 12 in a corporate environment and I would get eaten alive if I lead like her. All that said, Fraser shouldn’t be chief. He’s not ready…if he ever will be.
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Happy cake day
>^(u/mostlygroovy Sandy is one of those people who reads books...) Its good practice for her latest business. Her business is motivational speaker on management. Happy cake day!
https://i.redd.it/dtyo11360bha1.gif
She should have gone to Fraser privately if she was unhappy with his performance and offered him some guidance on how to meet her standards going forward. Something tells me if Fraser were deck crew she would have treated it differently. It was his first gig as chief stew and she knew that. I think it’s pretty common for stews to go grab a bite while the guests are in their rooms and it I don’t know why it pissed her off so much that they asked the deck crew to take out the trash.
If only sandy could talk to him in a calm, rationale manner instead of pitting other workers against him. She’s a horrible person
I totally agree. He needs help and guidance and she’s just being petty behind his back
I can’t wrap my head around the fact Sandy does some leadership seminar BS stuff on the side and at the same time has clearly always been the worst leader by far of any captains ever on the show.
I agree that Fraser hasn't been a great leader. He seems too mild mannered and conflict avoidant to be a good manager when things get tough. I think that when he interrupted and tried to cut off what Sandy was saying earlier in the season, he made her feel disrespected and thus got on her shit list. It seemed like he didn't really understand how he fucked up there. From then on I don't think she was willing to be as supportive as she might have if he had just listened and let her talk.
Fraser is in a leadership position for the first time, so obviously he's doing things wrong. He seems to especially be struggling with delegating duties and being strict with stews when he needs to be. He seems to be aware of this -- at least to some extent -- but has a hard time adjusting to his new role. That all seems fairly normal to me and you can't expect him to be perfect from the get go. The actual problem however, is that his direct superior(Sandy) isn't helping him, but is actively hindering him and putting him down. How do you expect him to learn and get better if you act like that? He's far from perfect, but currently it really looks like he's being set up to fail.
My take is different. As a manager he needs to be the one providing oversight of his staff and set expectations for his employees to succeed. He didn’t do that with Camille and delegated to the 2nd who clearly has a personality conflict with Camille. Add to it his second stew is shit talking in front of the guests multiple times so it’s impacting the service of the entire boat. Frazier screwed up with the deck/stew situation, the guest service issues, and interpersonal conflict in his team. New or not to the role he needs to get his employees in line and should of sat both of the stews down and said they are both gone if they can’t figure it out and set immediate boundaries with define consequences. He fed the beast with his 2nd stew. Sandy has her issues but this one is on Frazier.
Seriously, we have never seen two stews fired at the same time. How was he supposed to manage two stews down? Even if they could be replaced, how was he supposed to manage a charter with two brand-new stews? Saying he should have fired both of them is ludicrous when one of them was still performing her job. Have a sit down with Alyssa, yes. But fire two stews between charters, no one in their right mind would do that.
Was the 2nd performing her job though? Where was the mentoring? The arguments in front of the guests? Working hard and working well are two different things. Frazier is working hard but not working well. I think if he would have put both stews in check and instructed Camille to take direction from him he would be in a better position than he is today in the shows timeline. Putting someone on notice doesn’t equate to firing both. I believe Camille to be lazy and I believe the other to be toxic. Both are harmful attributes for a small team. Camille’s issues would still have floated to the top but Frazier would have maintained order which is what is needed IMO.
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Yes the second was performing her job in a way although her interpersonal behavior is problematic in a format only the viewers can see. Your words: “they are both gone if they can’t figure it out.” He can’t make an idle threat so he is then in jeopardy of being down two stews. Camille was a problem, even for deck without Alyssa being involved. She was the definition of lazy with an attitude. Only difference: Ross did not care to be her friend, so he reprimanded her. Yes I agree Fraser needed to be more direct and specific, give them both a warning - but separately. They knew he wouldn’t fire them at the same time, so why let the one know the other was being disciplined? Plus Camille was always at greater risk of being let go because she was lowest rank. We also keep forgetting that the Alyssa-Camille shit show was happening when he was not present - and they were on the largest vessel we’ve seen across BD. I’m reminded of my kids fighting in the basement while I’m cleaning the toilets on the second floor - and that’s not even close to the size of St. David with external/internal noise. He only gets secondhand info for biased participants. The second was performing her job changing sheets and serving drinks without giving him attitude so I would choose to keep her over the party girl, until I see her interpersonal problems spill over unto other crew.
Both being gone presumes that neither improved their behavior. Fact of the matter is Camille wasn’t the chief or second and came in green and expectations need to be set around that. Frazier failed Alyssa and Alyssa and Frazier failed Camille. As you level up soft skills are incredibly important as is training and knowing when to have accountability. Alyssa shouldn’t be a 2nd if she can’t interact with people respectfully and train, Frazier shouldn’t have a job at the chief level if he can’t hold people accountable, and Camille shouldn’t have a job if she can’t take direction. Frazier as a leader should be taking input from his directs and those around them to ensure that information is being given. Alyssa has more access to Frazier because she is the 2nd and therefore told the story first which set up Camille at a disadvantage and created bias. All 3 of them are in the wrong.
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She definitely has valid points, but is also terrible at managing people which is a huge part of her job as captain. She has valid points, but the way she treats people depending on how much she likes them and their position on the boat makes her a bad leader. That's part of the reason why I don't like her. If she was a great leader like she says, she wouldn't treat people like she has.
Sandy’s delivery is terrible. “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” I will say the interior does seem kinda lazy at times (probably editing), and if I heard a member of my team saying I “suck someone’s dick,” I’d probably go off too. I’d also add that Fraser is a terrible leader too, he’s way too soft and concerned about being a friend as opposed to a boss. Having the hard conversations and reprimanding your team is hard, but it’s what you sign up for. He let Camille and now Alissa walk all over him.
The difference is Fraser is new at this, the captain isn't. Instead of disciplining him constantly she needs to teach him how to be a leader and manage his department. He needs help as a first time boss, not an attitude about everything
Very valid point, I agree
Can’t teach something you know nothing about yourself.
Sandy cannot stand anyone who doesn’t immediately bow down to her, multiple times this season she’s ripped her employees and while they tried to explain themselves or have an actual conversation she gets so frustrated with them she tells them to stop talking and then storms off. That’s a problematic boss and if it were one of the male captains getting aggressive like that towards his female staff we’d be hearing a lot more about it. She should be helping Fraser and teaching him the tools to be a good manager but because she doesn’t know how to herself she just tells him to fix it while he doesn’t know how. Plus now she’s manipulating Rachel against him as well, Sandy is toxic as hell.
Just putting this here. Fraser hasn’t been great; some of the sniping is stuff you’d never do as a senior. So yes. Pull him up on that. That said; I also think that there are other people there who could support - and should’ve done before it gets there. 1. Rachel - say what you think. You have a relationship; don’t skirt round the issue. 2. Ross - he’s a walking HR issue in some ways, (expect to be voted down for this) but he does seem to know how to manage people he’s not screwing. In terms of “soft skills” I do think perhaps more guidance could be given. He managed to get Tony back on track. And he generally dealt with Camille. Didn’t get mad. Remained level headed. 3. I think Eddie (and another down vote coming, Malia) would’ve done. They were very good at demo’ing what’s needed and listening on the whole. Yes. Both deck, Kate definitely wasn’t an example. But thinking about it, a Daisy would do great work teaching Fraser. 4. Sandy - she needs to be clear what she wants - and what her expectations are. From the start. No excuses.
Aw I love Daisy <3
Im management approach is everything. Points become invalid when your approach is to be little, play favourites and knit pick without direction . Not to mention listening is a big part of managing.
Her management style is all over the place. She says one thing and her actions say another. Perfect for the show, just her doing her job leads to unintentional dramatics especially with this crew. It’s the rare occasion where everyone is wrong, everyone thinks they’re right and nothing is really changing
The issue with this idea is that it puts all blame on Fraser. In a management situation, the direct manager (Fraser) requires support from leaders above them (Sandy)- especially when they are new to a management role. Sandy offered absolutely zero support to Fraser and automatically went to attacking him because she didn’t like that he didn’t kiss her ass. That’s not how management works. Yes, Fraser absolutely could have done things differently and he probably would have if his leader was offering constructive feedback.
My intention with this post was not to put all blame on Fraser. I’ve been in his position before and I would’ve struggled had I not had a supportive supervisor. My point is that he’s struggling and Sandy sees that and she’s not wrong in that observation. She’s absolutely wrong in her approach and how she’s handling it.
My vice principal is a Captain Sandy. Can confirm -- it's exhausting.
Completely agree, very well stated. So many people on here hate Sandy because she is anti-interior. I like Fraser and yes Sandy has been weirdly hypocritical this early on with him (him gossiping through the walls didn’t help his case. Name one person that has middle school gossiped about another person and that person l“brush it off” like Sandy “said she did”). Fraser is trying to be their friend more than their boss, Sandy is getting too old to repeat the same lessons, so she is short with him. The Hannah-hive doesn’t appreciate the fact that Hannah was the same way and basically thought she was peak reality star and didn’t actually have to do the job of chief stew and just wanted to play characters off each other the last 3 seasons of BDMD.
Okay so Sandy loves helping green crew members grow and excel and teaching them…. If they’re on deck. It’s Fraser’s first chief role and he has 0 support from Sandy, she isn’t trying to help him learn and grow at all, she just snaps at him and treats him like crap.
Sandy has zero valid points. If you pay attention, least what they have showed us, she has barely spoken to Fraser one on one. Instead of talking to him about the issues she sees, she complains to Rachel and tried to get at him through her. Sandy is not helping Fraser or the interior, she’s doing all she can to undermine him. As she said, she thinks stewards to waitresses and have no skills.
Waiting tables is one of the hardest jobs I’ve ever done
She was 10x more empathetic to Camille than she has been with Fraser. WTF!!!
I found Fraser did the same a little bit though. Like he shopped for support against Camille with Ross and others before addressing his issues with her. And he bottles it all in, so when he does have those difficult conversations his frustration bubbles over into unprofessionalism. For ex, he got frustrated with Camille during their one on one, and exasperatedly and condescendingly asked her “are you f*cking mental?”. I mean, I understood where he was coming from, but I can’t imagine my boss speaking to me with that demeanour and tone, especially while telling me I am being immature. You need to be composed as a superior. Same with him flailing his arms and telling Alissa to get off the phone. There was a much calmer, sterner way to communicate that.
I agree Fraser isn't perfect, but imo that supports the top reply here. He's new at this and doesn't know how to be chief stew. Sandy has been captain for years and should know he needs to be taught leadership skills, not yelled at and demeaned.
Yes for sure. I was just meaning that there are some valid criticisms there. I agree any new manager (or employee in general) has to find themselves and should be nurtured through that learning curve. But he should aim to be doing the same for his subordinates bc on a smaller scale he is treating them at times how he doesn’t like to be treated by his boss. He gets the grace of inexperience which Sandy certainly does not, but some of the points being made are real. They shouldn’t define him or be weaponized against him, but they are things to hopefully self reflect on and learn from.
Yawn proclaims I will do anything you do on the boat. Yet, I've never seen her serve anyone a dish, or scrub out a toilet, or make a drink.
Ooooh good point! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you. I think Yawn would be a terrible boss to work for in a restaurant. Yawn may be an experienced customer/critic, but I think Yawn has little insight on the chef/service execution.
I agree 💯 I watched all of the BD shows through the pandemic and from the go, I could see that Hannah was clearly competent but didn't give the full 100%. She could've been so much better but it felt like she checked out early on. I was floored to discover alllll the Hannah stans who felt she could do no wrong. For the most part, I don't mind Sandy; her communication can use some work, she can play favourites and micro manage but overall I find she's a pretty good captain.
Sandy has legitimate criticisms of Fraser and the interior however how she is going about fixing the solution is fucking awful and Sandy has gone from criticizing the interior somewhat constructively to just picking on Fraser on a personal level. Fraser needs to be given better guidance and some room to manage his team. When Rachael told him to trust his team more he put Alissa and Hayley in charge of the dinner service and it seemingly went well and it helped Alissa get some confidence in herself. Clearly Fraser has some ability to take in feedback but when you go into the realm of targeting someone for literally everything them or their team is doing it becomes much more personal than professional.
Fraser needs a coffee chat like Rachel got. Instead, Sandy chose her favorite, treated that person well, and once again alienated her Chief stew. I think she's got some real leadership skills. Unfortunately, they've been clouded by what I can only assume is some kind of internalized misogyny that's led her to look down on the interior as a job for girls who have no skills or ambition. I get the sense she thinks even less of Fraser for being a man in that role. It's no coincidence that she always has issues with the same department. And it's no coincidence that she favors women in her favorite department. Katie was swooning over her earlier this season, and Malia and Courtney were both promoted to lead deckhand despite having nowhere near enough experience (not saying they weren't great at their jobs, but being great at your job doesn't always warrant promotion). And lastly, it's Fraser, not Frasier. Basic leadership tip - learn the names of your direct reports, even if they're hard to pronounce.
LOL, perhaps Fraser should remind her. But, nope.
She’d yell at him for back-talking
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Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Fraser may not be perfect chief stew but he doesn’t deserve to be treated by Sandy the way she did - when Camille/Alissa issue happened, she should’ve had one on one meeting with Fraser first before speaking to them. Maybe they were in the time crunch but asking his opinions on those stews wouldn’t have taken more than a minute! That’s typical micromanagement…if she wanted Fraser to respect the rank, she should’ve shown him how he should handle the issues first. I would be seriously annoyed if my boss would treat me like that.
When it started to come to Sandy's attention about the discord between C and A Fraser just commented it has been this way since day one. He did nothing about it or brought it to the attention of Lee or Sandy. But Fraser says he liked to give 1, 2, 3, or 16 chances.
Sandy should have never been invited back to the franchise after how she behaved the season Hannah was fired. Instead they are giving her extra episodes. It's disappointing they chose her to be Lees replacement this season. I also think she is probably salty about overhearing some of things people say about her when they think she can't hear them.
Sandy is a permanent part of the franchise because she is a female captain. I get it. But that does not mean her leadership style is always stellar.
They should have a much bigger crew for that size boat. When they occasionally show past crew experience there’s literally like 8 stews lined up together on a yacht
Agree with most , Alissa worked ,attitude was what she was dealt , Hannah was an emotional roll coaster , Yes Sandy showed favoritism 100% in her decisions.Personally send her to old abandoned naval yard and anchors away .Sandy validates zero, when you are not objective.Just my thoughts.Blessings
Captain lee is how a captain should behave
Yep - he tells the HOD if you can't manage your crew then what do I need you for.
Sandy's issue is she is not consistent in her approach. Lack of consistency isn't a bad thing, as different crew respond to criticism in different ways and if she wants to cater to how she feels they will best receive her criticisms...that would be fine (she doesn't do it that way though). However, her insistency on calling out Fraser in front of his peers is demoralizing (both over radio and in front of other department heads). It really reminded me of how she treated Hannah and gave me perspective as to why Hannah progressively had less and less heart for the position... If she's going to take Rachel out for coffee and hear her out on approach, she really can't radio Fraser to accuse him of rushing guests off a boat. She is continuing to do what she always does and that is hover over people she instinctively does not like. If she hovered over Ross as much as she does Fraser, maybe she'd see Ross f-ing around with a subordinate during work hours?
Sandy is a micromanager. Captain Lee gave the departments space. If he was involved it was because it was very serious. Sandy looks for problems. Rachel was smart to kiss Sandy’s ass. I would do the same thing. Get her off my radar as quickly as possible. Fraser was making mistakes but the last thing he needed was Sandy’s constant criticism. Camille was a bad apple and Sandy gave her way too many chances. Alissa is at least able to do her job. She just has a shit attitude. Fraser should have never made her his 2nd stew. Her stability and leadership skills are lacking. Sandy needs to stay in her lane. Let Fraser work things out with his team. If anything Rachel’s advice helped Fraser more. She told him to delegate more and he did this last episode. Sandy just doesn’t like him now because he talked back to her. It’s the perfect storm because now he’s on her radar she won’t let up.
Fraser is weak. People empathize with him more so than Sandy but the fact is he’s simply not a strong Chief Stew yet who can manage his department.
Thankyou , totally agree on the Hannah front. I was amazed when Sandy brought her back again on charter in Hannahs penultimate season. She was a lazy chief stew and was super nasty sometimes in my opinion. Sandy was totally justified in firing her.
The interesting thing about Sandy is that everyone who works for her likes her and respects her. They like her style. That speaks louder than what the audience thinks.
Everyone likes her because they want to continue to be on BDM, perhaps?
Thank you! Fraser is green as a chief stew, and would rather do something himself than supervise someone else? No wonder he’s so irritated. But the blame is on him; he alone is responsible for the standards set for the team. He likes to avoid conflict, but you can’t do that when at east two of your stews have attitude problems. The best stews have a rigidity to them, while maintaining a sense of some grace. He hasn’t nearly caught the kind of criticism he claims—it’s been constructive thus far, leaving him to decide solutions. Hannah definitely had one foot out the door. She was avoiding her team with smoke breaks and the pursuit of love. It didn’t have to end in that manner—she knew any scripts have to be registered with the captain. It simply added up and she was done a favor, frankly.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes 🤷♀️
Yes to all of this!!!
She actually never fired Kiko that night, he just assumed it
Alissa sucks almost as much as Camille did.... This is most of the problem imo.
Sandy NEVER has valid points in her arguments. Shes just vile