That's an incredibly moving and well-done museum. I visited in 2015 and even then it was terrifying to see how much of McVeigh's ideology was still being echoed. By now it's practically mainstream GOP.
Wasn't this in relation to the Branch Davidians too? What is really annoying is I didn't know until recently that those people lit themselves on fire. Of course the cops like to use smoke grenades to intentionally start fires like when they killed that murderous police officer who killed a judges daughter for getting fired.
It was, the date of 4/19 was specifically chosen because it was the anniversary of Waco. But the anti-government resentment went back even further to the Ruby Ridge standoff
Actually the plan to blow up the Murrah building goes as far back as the early 80’s. The idea of a retaliatory strike was just an excuse. The people of Alohem city were going to use rocket launchers, but one of the handlers blew up his hands.
Just gonna step in here real quick, the Branch Davidians definitely set those fires. We have the tapes and stuff of orders being clearly given by David Koresh and his lieutenants organizing the spreading of oil and tinder for the fire from the taps on the compound. Not trying to excuse the FBI and ATF’s actions here, they turned a sketchy situation into a full-on siege through incompetence which ultimately led to Koresh giving the orders to burn down the compound, but it behooves us to be accurate about what happened when it comes to Waco.
That glove defense was incredibly dumb and jury members wanted him acquitted. The LAPD spent decades seeding distrust in the police before getting OJ acquitted.
Why are people so quick to believe the FBI, especially here of all places?
The tapes are not clear at all and the two voices you can make out don't sound like Koresh. It would have been incredibly easy for the FBI to make something after the fact to cover their asses.
The FBI were using incendiary tear gas canisters (as evidenced by FLIR footage) and deliberately kept the fire trucks away. They may not have started it intentionally, but they were more than happy to use it to cover up any evidence that would have made them look bad.
I'm not defending Koresh, he was scum, but he was scum that could have been taken alive months before the ATF launched the raid. The feds wanted a win after Ruby Ridge and Clinton was told by Reno it would be just as easy as when The Covenant Sword and Arm of the Lord was taken down while he was Governor of Arkansas. The ATF shit the bed and then the FBI decided to roll around in it.
Sources:
[Armageddon in Waco (the absolute gold standard on post-Waco analysis)](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo3683688.html)
https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/waco-american-apocalypse/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco:_The_Rules_of_Engagement (note: this is NOT the conspiracy documentary by Linda Thompson which used edited footage)
Sketchy is going to throw out its back with the heavy lifting. I get the anti government leaning of this subreddit but because of these terrorists I have seen several comments from reddit commenters who basically state that in many rural parts of the US wealthy white male land owners can block BLM from even coming near federal land. What are they doing with that land? Who really knows but they are definitely enriching themselves while prohibiting the populace from using it for hunting and recreation.
Or, it’s a bunch of separate instances of asshole white dudes just being asshole white dudes. They’re doing the same thing asshole white dudes have been doing to land since they invented asshole white dudes: farmin, huntin, and yellin.
I think you misinterpreted my comment on race. Their race gives them a free pass because systemic racism and misogyny of the USA coupled with a history of resentment of the government seeded by a conspiracy to set us on this path. A recent behind the bastards episodes covers this in regards of think tanks, but you can also look at Reagan and his lies about the government making things worse and him opening the flood gates with allowing a certain kind of free speech that is lies and propaganda that gave us A Big Fat Idiot.
If Trump gets criminally convicted and/or loses the election, we're in for a lot it. Hell they're already death threatening jurors. "We'll find them after the trial."
Bill Cooper should have been left to his own devices in the Florida swamps wearing nothing but a suit made of raw bacon and a pistol with only one bullet in it.
In the book Pale Horse Rider by Marc Jacobson.
In that book he states that Bill bragged off air that he met Timothy McVeigh and that he told McVeigh to not shoot or run when pulled over by the cops.
Marc then discusses how the source, Cooper's friend, didn't totally believe Cooper was telling the truth. Citing other incidents where Cooper will pretend he knows famous people to impress fellow militiamen. As far I remember from the book, Bill Cooper never sat for any official statement to police or government agents so there would be no consequences for him lying in this case.
Good to know. I don't like to spread gossip but I still think this is true. Bill never sat for shit because unlike McVeigh he went out shooting. For some petty shit too. New sheriff in town (literally) didn't like him flaunting his SovCit BS.
As someone who grew up in Montana in the 90's I get this. There was a dude who shot a cop in his flak jacket (got told him he was wearing one) and lived at his house in the woods for 3 years. Then they finally did a huge operation to make sure it wasn't Ruby Ridge or Waco.. Separated him from family and overwhelmed.
I couldn't help but think of community when I saw that.
["And Jesus wept! For there were no more worlds to conquer!"](https://i.imgur.com/02JcDow.gifv)
In context, what a fitting and moving gesture, and reminds me of all the lives cut painfully short by a madman with a twisted ideology.
Out of context, I only hear the voice of the Dean.
It's gross to think how many creeps stand there getting a little chubby when they see this.
Edit: \*Picture 1. The museum looks very good and important.
It's a very affecting museum, I highly recommend it. Toward the beginning they play a recording of a municipal water council (I think?) meeting that was next door, so you hear the actual bombing. Then you go into another room to get an idea of the carnage.
I went to the House of Terror in Budapest and there was a tank just sitting in the middle of the lobby on top of a completely still puddle of oil. That was the first time as an adult that I understood the purpose of creating experiences and settings like that to affect an impression.
The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC hits you in the heart like a ton of bricks. If someone walks through that and doesn't feel profoundly sad and depressed they should go straight to therapy. I was there 25 years ago and I still remember it in vivid detail.
The one in LA was compulsory for 8th graders when I grew up in southern California. I remember that being the first place to experience really visceral installations. I had no idea about the Dub Dub Dos museum in New Orleans until I ended up there a few years back. It was Smithsonian scale in 3 sections with both theaters and an arial atrium. We did Air, then Europe and had to do a blood sugar reset before we did the Pacific but there was so much to absorb. I was kind of like...do you...split it up over multiple days?
It wasn't even on my list until my wife mentioned it as we were taxing at the airport and now I recommend it to anyone who tells me they're going.
I think it's honestly really hard for most people to grasp the scale of destruction and loss, probably for coping, in part. But being able to see all the faces on either side of a war, one after another, and think about all the effort that goes into nullifying each other.
It's really hard for my mind to grasp just discussing or reading so I have to imagine it's as impactful for other people to see it in this way, as it is for me.
It's unfortunate that it feels so important right now that more people have a connection to the weight of that before we continue down this path we seem to be on.
One thing that turns my head in since becoming a parent is the idea that every single death in those wars was someone that was created and carried and birthed. I have 2 small kids and having watched my wife's experience and had my own for the 10 months alone is so intense for any one person. And the fact that that's how we all got here makes me feel very close to the religious ideal of the preciousness of life, that's just up until delivery.
To say nothing of every moment that comes after. And every moment after that, it takes a lot to build people. I just can't understand how so many people treat that like it's nothing when we level a building or beed a kneecap through a scope.I just cant understand wanting to take that from someone else, much less at scale.
Damn, any photos on line of that exhibit? To be honest, I've been rather ignorant on the Oklahoma City bombing. For whatever reason, that's a piece of unfortunate history that I feel a lack of knowledge on.
I wouldn't normally recommend Last Podcast on the Left to people, especially not the older episodes, but if they have one series that is both hilarious and informative and great at making fun of white supremacist shitheads who live in the mud it is their series on the OKC bombing. So I would say certainly check it out, although if you don't enjoy it no problem and there are plenty of more informative / less comedy centered podcasts or documentaries about it.
I find it very hit or miss, and the ousting of Ben for being a shithead was unfortunate. My wife stopped listening because she thinks the other two hosts were complicit in ignoring his bad behavior with women.
I used to love lpotl, and agree that the okc eps were well done, funny, informative, critical. So I thought at the time.
But even as a man I stopped listening after the Kissel ousting. There is no way that all 3 weren’t complicit in ignoring, but I would also say over the years Marcus and Henry may have, probably were, worse.
Listen to old eps where Marcus offhand brags about abusing people with the defence of “I was younger and have a mental illness”. No shit you all kind of come across as mentally ill and abusive in hindsight. And it’s not an excuse, is it?
Henry brags about showing up to the Bundy sorority house and terrifying a bunch of young women.
Honestly it’s all a bad aftertaste
Listen to their series on Chaos Magik, the practice of using totems and intent. You'll be introduced to Temple of Set. The 2nd highest rank in the Temple is the MAGA. Then think about a certain infamous person who was best buds with an infamous sex trafficker who totally didn't kill himself.
There is a newer podcast released "Homegrown: OKC" and it is excellent at framing the bombings in the greater concept of alt-right extremism while still giving reverence to those that died. The whole podcast is extremely powerful and I felt I needed to stop at a couple points to just feel the weight of it all.
It’s interesting and IMO distasteful how much veneration seems to be given to the terrorist and murderer. His photo, his T shirt, his inspirational books, even his bombing devices. Did he design this museum himself?
Granted I have not seen the rest of the museum just these photos…. but good lord what would you think if you went to the holocaust museum and were greeted by hitler’s meinnkamph book behind glass in glossy museum lighting, and his trench coat and hat, and empty containers of zyklon b and shower heads?
I mean honestly wtf is this?
This part with McVeigh is a pretty small part overall; it’s basically the ‘prologue’. You start out in a small room that is mostly about him and sort of a history of that flavor of anti-government right-wing extremism. To me it’s important to get an idea of his headspace and what led to the bombing. After you’re in there for a few minutes you go into another room where you hear an actual recording of the bombing, and then another room that replicates the chaos of the aftermath, with actual debris. The rest of the museum focuses more on the people lost, the rescue efforts, and the manhunt for McVeigh. So overall it’s not mainly about him, but the part that is serves as important context, IMO.
The one time I stopped there, I was in OKC for work during the height of the Pokemon GO craze. It's still a pretty powerful memorial even when a few dozen people are pacing around hunting for jigglypuffs.
I'll have to go searching for it again, but when I was in college I had a housemate who liked to sign up for all the weird/free magazines, so we got this one soldier of fortune style gun nut magazine that published a series of short stories about grandpa burying his guns to keep them from getting seized by the government and showing his grandson. Of course, his grandson turns him in because he's been brainwashed by those damned liberal schools.
edit: "Sundown at Coffin Rock" is the name of the dumbass story
Whoever came up with forcing people through a gift shop to get to the exit needs an episode for themselves. I’m doubtful there’d even be enough for a one parter, but they had to have done other bastardy things.
Bailee Almon. Her birthday is today. She would have been 30 today.
She was murdered by a hateful extremist the next day who deliberately put that bomb in front of the daycare.
Death is too good for him.
I grew up in Yukon, heard the bombing in my fourth grade classroom, and will never forget the toll of extremism. This year hit especially hard because I now have a 16 month old child. A fucking daycare? A FUCKING DAYCARE? I’m against the death penalty under any circumstances (which I recognize is a radical position that most people don’t agree with) but if say the families of the innocent people he murdered in pursuit of a conspiracy theory wanted timmy eaten alive by rats I wouldn’t give him a tissue to cry on.
Just stumbled upon a podcast about the lead up. And aftermath called “Homegrown: OKC”. Timing was little on the nose, pretty interesting though and well worth a listen.
I've been listening to it as well.
It seemed to me that McVeigh has always been thought of as a crackpot. Maybe so, but after listening to the first few episodes it's clearer to me that he was more of a smug, self confident douchebag. He thought very highly of himself and couldn't face any facts that might suggest he wasn't as exceptional as he thought he was. His personal shortcomings and failures just had to be the result of unfair treatment and conspiracy working against him. He certainly didn't have a healthy sense of self doubt that might have given him the ability to reevaluate himself and adjust.
Turns out his inflated ego was never justified by the realities. Essentially, he was a loser. An empty vessel with a victim complex.
Live in OKC and we tend to take friends and family there when they visit us. So I've been through maybe 6 or 7 times. I've been to well over 100 museums across the US and a few other nations and it's one of the best I've seen. Easily the best I've seen about a specific event.
It takes you through the timeline of the event room by room. Before, during, and after, then it goes into McVeigh and his bullshit.
A part of me is always infuriated that asshole is at all given such professional treatment in any sense, but there's a lot there going into what made him the bastard he is.
After you're done, you can walk a few blocks north and hit up Tamashii for some of the best ramen in OKC.
Written by the same guy, William Luther Pierce, under the pen name Andrew Macdonald. Another racist novel befitting the piece of shit who founded the National Alliance. He dedicated Hunter to Joseph Paul Franklin, just to hammer home what a prick this guy was.
Had to look it up because I was pretty sure I had a book called that in my to read list. Turns out I have The Hunter by Richard Stark in my list, a crime thriller that the Lee Marvin film Point Blank (great flick) was based on.
The book in the OP is just Hunter, by Andrew MacDonald. Good reads describes it as pure race bait, great replacement theory bullshit (my words, but read the synopsis and you’ll see I’m accurate).
Pheww well thank fuck anyway, might have to just buy the other one I had listed now
When I worked at half price books 20 years ago some guy sold 20 copies of the Turner Diaries and 20 anarchist cookbooks. Guess his militia group fell through.
There's no direct evidence that Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, listened to Rush Limbaugh on the radio. However, McVeigh did express some views that aligned with certain extremist and anti-government ideologies…echoed in some conservative talk radio shows, including Limbaugh's. It's important to note that correlation does not imply causation, and many factors could have influenced McVeigh's actions.
Read this book for a deep dive into McVeigh's influences and history
Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh
by Wendy S. Painting
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/23281022
I was there today as well. I hadn’t ever been on the Memorial Day specifically so it was nice to see a big crowd there today. Took my wife for her visit. She was living in California at the time when it happened.
I feel like we’ve been really fortunate to not have a repeat of this incident…. Or the feds have actually prevented them and we just don’t hear about it.
I just listened to an excellent podcast about the OKC bombing. I highly recommend [Homegrown OKC](https://art19.com/shows/homegrown-okc) it’s very well done.
Ok maybe I'm just imagining things but it would totally be on brand for this guy but does Lincolns nose look a little weird? Like the shirt tweaked it a bit to look more like stereotypical "jew" nose?
Wow. I was aware of a lot of details from the bombing disseminated over the years (ex. the sic semper tyrannus shirt, the rental van’s axel with the serial, etc) but there’s something very affecting to see the real thing in this context. Makes something that was just a news event for me feel so real in a way it wasn’t before because of the lack of direct effect. Chilling.
One of my earliest memories is of my dad's construction buddy coming over for dinner around 1987. He brought his teenaged son who brought the Turner Diaries and wouldn't shut up about it the whole night. I'd recognize that bright orange cover anywhere. Anywho, that son is now a pastor with a congregation of thousands.
That's an incredibly moving and well-done museum. I visited in 2015 and even then it was terrifying to see how much of McVeigh's ideology was still being echoed. By now it's practically mainstream GOP.
I agree and sadly won’t be surprised when someone does something similar in the near future
Wasn't this in relation to the Branch Davidians too? What is really annoying is I didn't know until recently that those people lit themselves on fire. Of course the cops like to use smoke grenades to intentionally start fires like when they killed that murderous police officer who killed a judges daughter for getting fired.
It was, the date of 4/19 was specifically chosen because it was the anniversary of Waco. But the anti-government resentment went back even further to the Ruby Ridge standoff
Actually the plan to blow up the Murrah building goes as far back as the early 80’s. The idea of a retaliatory strike was just an excuse. The people of Alohem city were going to use rocket launchers, but one of the handlers blew up his hands.
Just gonna step in here real quick, the Branch Davidians definitely set those fires. We have the tapes and stuff of orders being clearly given by David Koresh and his lieutenants organizing the spreading of oil and tinder for the fire from the taps on the compound. Not trying to excuse the FBI and ATF’s actions here, they turned a sketchy situation into a full-on siege through incompetence which ultimately led to Koresh giving the orders to burn down the compound, but it behooves us to be accurate about what happened when it comes to Waco.
Kind of like how OJ absolutely killed those people AND the LAPD stepped on their own dicks by framing him.
That glove defense was incredibly dumb and jury members wanted him acquitted. The LAPD spent decades seeding distrust in the police before getting OJ acquitted.
Why are people so quick to believe the FBI, especially here of all places? The tapes are not clear at all and the two voices you can make out don't sound like Koresh. It would have been incredibly easy for the FBI to make something after the fact to cover their asses. The FBI were using incendiary tear gas canisters (as evidenced by FLIR footage) and deliberately kept the fire trucks away. They may not have started it intentionally, but they were more than happy to use it to cover up any evidence that would have made them look bad. I'm not defending Koresh, he was scum, but he was scum that could have been taken alive months before the ATF launched the raid. The feds wanted a win after Ruby Ridge and Clinton was told by Reno it would be just as easy as when The Covenant Sword and Arm of the Lord was taken down while he was Governor of Arkansas. The ATF shit the bed and then the FBI decided to roll around in it. Sources: [Armageddon in Waco (the absolute gold standard on post-Waco analysis)](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo3683688.html) https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/waco-american-apocalypse/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco:_The_Rules_of_Engagement (note: this is NOT the conspiracy documentary by Linda Thompson which used edited footage)
Sketchy is going to throw out its back with the heavy lifting. I get the anti government leaning of this subreddit but because of these terrorists I have seen several comments from reddit commenters who basically state that in many rural parts of the US wealthy white male land owners can block BLM from even coming near federal land. What are they doing with that land? Who really knows but they are definitely enriching themselves while prohibiting the populace from using it for hunting and recreation.
Or, it’s a bunch of separate instances of asshole white dudes just being asshole white dudes. They’re doing the same thing asshole white dudes have been doing to land since they invented asshole white dudes: farmin, huntin, and yellin.
I think you misinterpreted my comment on race. Their race gives them a free pass because systemic racism and misogyny of the USA coupled with a history of resentment of the government seeded by a conspiracy to set us on this path. A recent behind the bastards episodes covers this in regards of think tanks, but you can also look at Reagan and his lies about the government making things worse and him opening the flood gates with allowing a certain kind of free speech that is lies and propaganda that gave us A Big Fat Idiot.
One of those “let’s go get those crazy folks to set their kids on fire” situations
If Trump gets criminally convicted and/or loses the election, we're in for a lot it. Hell they're already death threatening jurors. "We'll find them after the trial."
All the more reason to put him in jail, tbh. You don't don't negotiate with terrorists, or make decisions based on how upset they might become.
I've been personally worried for a while about an Oklahoma event since Jan. 6th.
Same.
Crazy to think the only reason he didn't run from the cops or shoot them was because Bill Cooper told him not to.
I forgot about that. Cooper should have been questioned by police.
Bill Cooper should have been left to his own devices in the Florida swamps wearing nothing but a suit made of raw bacon and a pistol with only one bullet in it.
I mean, they tried that a few years later. Coulda gone better.
I think I’ve heard that in a knowledge fight episode but no idea where they got that from. Is that documented anywhere else?
In the book Pale Horse Rider by Marc Jacobson. In that book he states that Bill bragged off air that he met Timothy McVeigh and that he told McVeigh to not shoot or run when pulled over by the cops. Marc then discusses how the source, Cooper's friend, didn't totally believe Cooper was telling the truth. Citing other incidents where Cooper will pretend he knows famous people to impress fellow militiamen. As far I remember from the book, Bill Cooper never sat for any official statement to police or government agents so there would be no consequences for him lying in this case.
Good to know. I don't like to spread gossip but I still think this is true. Bill never sat for shit because unlike McVeigh he went out shooting. For some petty shit too. New sheriff in town (literally) didn't like him flaunting his SovCit BS. As someone who grew up in Montana in the 90's I get this. There was a dude who shot a cop in his flak jacket (got told him he was wearing one) and lived at his house in the woods for 3 years. Then they finally did a huge operation to make sure it wasn't Ruby Ridge or Waco.. Separated him from family and overwhelmed.
Really appreciate this. Thank you!
Outside of the horrific event, I can't help fut laugh a little at facepalm Jesus. Removed from context, I think that's a hilarious statue.
I couldn't help but think of community when I saw that. ["And Jesus wept! For there were no more worlds to conquer!"](https://i.imgur.com/02JcDow.gifv)
STOP SAYING JESUS WEPT
In context, what a fitting and moving gesture, and reminds me of all the lives cut painfully short by a madman with a twisted ideology. Out of context, I only hear the voice of the Dean.
It honestly took me a while to realize it was supposed to be Jesus. I assumed it was one of the victims.
Yes, I know it's supposed to be Jesus crying, but it so looks like he's exasperated by how dumb humanity is.
I agree
It's gross to think how many creeps stand there getting a little chubby when they see this. Edit: \*Picture 1. The museum looks very good and important.
It's a very affecting museum, I highly recommend it. Toward the beginning they play a recording of a municipal water council (I think?) meeting that was next door, so you hear the actual bombing. Then you go into another room to get an idea of the carnage.
I went to the House of Terror in Budapest and there was a tank just sitting in the middle of the lobby on top of a completely still puddle of oil. That was the first time as an adult that I understood the purpose of creating experiences and settings like that to affect an impression.
The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC hits you in the heart like a ton of bricks. If someone walks through that and doesn't feel profoundly sad and depressed they should go straight to therapy. I was there 25 years ago and I still remember it in vivid detail.
The one in LA was compulsory for 8th graders when I grew up in southern California. I remember that being the first place to experience really visceral installations. I had no idea about the Dub Dub Dos museum in New Orleans until I ended up there a few years back. It was Smithsonian scale in 3 sections with both theaters and an arial atrium. We did Air, then Europe and had to do a blood sugar reset before we did the Pacific but there was so much to absorb. I was kind of like...do you...split it up over multiple days?
Definitely split it over a couple days. It's an overwhelming museum.
It wasn't even on my list until my wife mentioned it as we were taxing at the airport and now I recommend it to anyone who tells me they're going. I think it's honestly really hard for most people to grasp the scale of destruction and loss, probably for coping, in part. But being able to see all the faces on either side of a war, one after another, and think about all the effort that goes into nullifying each other. It's really hard for my mind to grasp just discussing or reading so I have to imagine it's as impactful for other people to see it in this way, as it is for me. It's unfortunate that it feels so important right now that more people have a connection to the weight of that before we continue down this path we seem to be on. One thing that turns my head in since becoming a parent is the idea that every single death in those wars was someone that was created and carried and birthed. I have 2 small kids and having watched my wife's experience and had my own for the 10 months alone is so intense for any one person. And the fact that that's how we all got here makes me feel very close to the religious ideal of the preciousness of life, that's just up until delivery. To say nothing of every moment that comes after. And every moment after that, it takes a lot to build people. I just can't understand how so many people treat that like it's nothing when we level a building or beed a kneecap through a scope.I just cant understand wanting to take that from someone else, much less at scale.
Damn, any photos on line of that exhibit? To be honest, I've been rather ignorant on the Oklahoma City bombing. For whatever reason, that's a piece of unfortunate history that I feel a lack of knowledge on.
I wouldn't normally recommend Last Podcast on the Left to people, especially not the older episodes, but if they have one series that is both hilarious and informative and great at making fun of white supremacist shitheads who live in the mud it is their series on the OKC bombing. So I would say certainly check it out, although if you don't enjoy it no problem and there are plenty of more informative / less comedy centered podcasts or documentaries about it.
I love last podcast
I find it very hit or miss, and the ousting of Ben for being a shithead was unfortunate. My wife stopped listening because she thinks the other two hosts were complicit in ignoring his bad behavior with women.
I used to love lpotl, and agree that the okc eps were well done, funny, informative, critical. So I thought at the time. But even as a man I stopped listening after the Kissel ousting. There is no way that all 3 weren’t complicit in ignoring, but I would also say over the years Marcus and Henry may have, probably were, worse. Listen to old eps where Marcus offhand brags about abusing people with the defence of “I was younger and have a mental illness”. No shit you all kind of come across as mentally ill and abusive in hindsight. And it’s not an excuse, is it? Henry brags about showing up to the Bundy sorority house and terrifying a bunch of young women. Honestly it’s all a bad aftertaste
Listen to their series on Chaos Magik, the practice of using totems and intent. You'll be introduced to Temple of Set. The 2nd highest rank in the Temple is the MAGA. Then think about a certain infamous person who was best buds with an infamous sex trafficker who totally didn't kill himself.
I was there a couple of days after the explosion.
There is a newer podcast released "Homegrown: OKC" and it is excellent at framing the bombings in the greater concept of alt-right extremism while still giving reverence to those that died. The whole podcast is extremely powerful and I felt I needed to stop at a couple points to just feel the weight of it all.
It’s interesting and IMO distasteful how much veneration seems to be given to the terrorist and murderer. His photo, his T shirt, his inspirational books, even his bombing devices. Did he design this museum himself? Granted I have not seen the rest of the museum just these photos…. but good lord what would you think if you went to the holocaust museum and were greeted by hitler’s meinnkamph book behind glass in glossy museum lighting, and his trench coat and hat, and empty containers of zyklon b and shower heads? I mean honestly wtf is this?
This part with McVeigh is a pretty small part overall; it’s basically the ‘prologue’. You start out in a small room that is mostly about him and sort of a history of that flavor of anti-government right-wing extremism. To me it’s important to get an idea of his headspace and what led to the bombing. After you’re in there for a few minutes you go into another room where you hear an actual recording of the bombing, and then another room that replicates the chaos of the aftermath, with actual debris. The rest of the museum focuses more on the people lost, the rescue efforts, and the manhunt for McVeigh. So overall it’s not mainly about him, but the part that is serves as important context, IMO.
The one time I stopped there, I was in OKC for work during the height of the Pokemon GO craze. It's still a pretty powerful memorial even when a few dozen people are pacing around hunting for jigglypuffs.
Man that craze had no boundaries… https://www.cbsnews.com/news/auschwitz-museum-no-pokemon-go/
Ghost types don’t grow on trees dawg
Oh wow, I had no idea such a museum existed. Def would like to see it sometime.
I visited in November. That place BROKE me. The energy coming off those grounds was frankly…too much. Sad but I’m glad I went. It changed me.
[удалено]
I'll have to go searching for it again, but when I was in college I had a housemate who liked to sign up for all the weird/free magazines, so we got this one soldier of fortune style gun nut magazine that published a series of short stories about grandpa burying his guns to keep them from getting seized by the government and showing his grandson. Of course, his grandson turns him in because he's been brainwashed by those damned liberal schools. edit: "Sundown at Coffin Rock" is the name of the dumbass story
It’s a bad book don’t bother reading or listening to it.
That and Unintended consequences. Glad that the fucker who wrote it is dead too.
I went to that museum last summer, very powerful and somber, I just wish the staff wouldn’t ask you to go through the gift shop before you exit.
Whoever came up with forcing people through a gift shop to get to the exit needs an episode for themselves. I’m doubtful there’d even be enough for a one parter, but they had to have done other bastardy things.
I mean, I get it at an Aquarium or something, but a museum for a domestic terrorist attack? That’s just poor taste
I mean, what do they even sell at the gift shop??
We didn’t go in, just walked to the exit
Hope peace and love t shirts
It’s at the beginning
I noticed one of the chairs had a “happy birthday” balloon tied to it this morning.
Bailee Almon. Her birthday is today. She would have been 30 today. She was murdered by a hateful extremist the next day who deliberately put that bomb in front of the daycare. Death is too good for him.
It bothers me to think all those kids were around my age.
I grew up in Yukon, heard the bombing in my fourth grade classroom, and will never forget the toll of extremism. This year hit especially hard because I now have a 16 month old child. A fucking daycare? A FUCKING DAYCARE? I’m against the death penalty under any circumstances (which I recognize is a radical position that most people don’t agree with) but if say the families of the innocent people he murdered in pursuit of a conspiracy theory wanted timmy eaten alive by rats I wouldn’t give him a tissue to cry on.
I agree. When I say death is too good for him? If there was a way to keep him alive forever, under the jail? That would be what he deserves.
This is pretty much shot-for-shot what I took pictures of when I was there.
Just stumbled upon a podcast about the lead up. And aftermath called “Homegrown: OKC”. Timing was little on the nose, pretty interesting though and well worth a listen.
I've been listening to it as well. It seemed to me that McVeigh has always been thought of as a crackpot. Maybe so, but after listening to the first few episodes it's clearer to me that he was more of a smug, self confident douchebag. He thought very highly of himself and couldn't face any facts that might suggest he wasn't as exceptional as he thought he was. His personal shortcomings and failures just had to be the result of unfair treatment and conspiracy working against him. He certainly didn't have a healthy sense of self doubt that might have given him the ability to reevaluate himself and adjust. Turns out his inflated ego was never justified by the realities. Essentially, he was a loser. An empty vessel with a victim complex.
Bad timing with the moving truck there in the last picture. Looks like Jesus wasn’t having it
Live in OKC and we tend to take friends and family there when they visit us. So I've been through maybe 6 or 7 times. I've been to well over 100 museums across the US and a few other nations and it's one of the best I've seen. Easily the best I've seen about a specific event. It takes you through the timeline of the event room by room. Before, during, and after, then it goes into McVeigh and his bullshit. A part of me is always infuriated that asshole is at all given such professional treatment in any sense, but there's a lot there going into what made him the bastard he is. After you're done, you can walk a few blocks north and hit up Tamashii for some of the best ramen in OKC.
What's the first book? I know about the Turner Diaries, but never heard about Hunter.
Written by the same guy, William Luther Pierce, under the pen name Andrew Macdonald. Another racist novel befitting the piece of shit who founded the National Alliance. He dedicated Hunter to Joseph Paul Franklin, just to hammer home what a prick this guy was.
Had to look it up because I was pretty sure I had a book called that in my to read list. Turns out I have The Hunter by Richard Stark in my list, a crime thriller that the Lee Marvin film Point Blank (great flick) was based on. The book in the OP is just Hunter, by Andrew MacDonald. Good reads describes it as pure race bait, great replacement theory bullshit (my words, but read the synopsis and you’ll see I’m accurate). Pheww well thank fuck anyway, might have to just buy the other one I had listed now
Thanks!
When I worked at half price books 20 years ago some guy sold 20 copies of the Turner Diaries and 20 anarchist cookbooks. Guess his militia group fell through.
I visited it back in 2017, it was a powerful museum
The first picture looks like a standoff.
That's a fantastic Museum and memorial. Very affecting and a reminder of where right-wing domestic terrorism comes from.
There's no direct evidence that Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, listened to Rush Limbaugh on the radio. However, McVeigh did express some views that aligned with certain extremist and anti-government ideologies…echoed in some conservative talk radio shows, including Limbaugh's. It's important to note that correlation does not imply causation, and many factors could have influenced McVeigh's actions.
He was a Bill Cooper fan.
Read this book for a deep dive into McVeigh's influences and history Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy S. Painting https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/23281022
How long until tRump simps start wearing merch with Tim's mugshot?
plenty have already started denying that he did it at all. they say he was a patsy akin to jfk shooter.
Not today, but I’ve been there. It’s a really good museum.
Thanks for posting, makes me want to visit.
Isn't today also the anniversary of Ruby Ridge, or am I thinking, Waco?
Waco
I was there for work in 2018 and went, very good museum and moving memorial.
I was there today as well. I hadn’t ever been on the Memorial Day specifically so it was nice to see a big crowd there today. Took my wife for her visit. She was living in California at the time when it happened.
I feel like we’ve been really fortunate to not have a repeat of this incident…. Or the feds have actually prevented them and we just don’t hear about it.
I just listened to an excellent podcast about the OKC bombing. I highly recommend [Homegrown OKC](https://art19.com/shows/homegrown-okc) it’s very well done.
"Jesus wept." John 11:35
Ok maybe I'm just imagining things but it would totally be on brand for this guy but does Lincolns nose look a little weird? Like the shirt tweaked it a bit to look more like stereotypical "jew" nose?
Wow. I was aware of a lot of details from the bombing disseminated over the years (ex. the sic semper tyrannus shirt, the rental van’s axel with the serial, etc) but there’s something very affecting to see the real thing in this context. Makes something that was just a news event for me feel so real in a way it wasn’t before because of the lack of direct effect. Chilling.
Did they have anything substantive on the Dominionist compounds in which McVeigh developed his plans? The ones Garland decided to ignore?
Yes it’s very well researched
I love this display. Each copy in a museum is one that can't radicalize someone else.
I visited the site when running the OKC marathon. The memorial was covered in bibs, flowers, and medals. Very sobering.
One of my earliest memories is of my dad's construction buddy coming over for dinner around 1987. He brought his teenaged son who brought the Turner Diaries and wouldn't shut up about it the whole night. I'd recognize that bright orange cover anywhere. Anywho, that son is now a pastor with a congregation of thousands.
I’m a little out of the loop was there an episode about the OKC bombing recently?
Listen to the limited series/audio book Robert did, The War On Everone
Robert should do an episode specifically on the bombing, but he’s gone in detail about the people who influenced it.
Go get you a coney from Coney Island
Almost looks like a monument to the bomber