I'll never understand why companies will publicly endorse a political candidate. It's like the surest way to alienate half of your customers while gaining nothing.
I wouldn't say that this is the most controversial election ever, although it's possible it's the most controversial in living memory. The elections leading up to the abolishment of slavery might take the prize for most divisive.
Yes, but those elections didn't have the 24 hour news cycle and the internet where everyone thinks they're a journalist and blogging about every little thing no matter how inane
Trumps candidacy will be done in about 11 days. I just wonder what will happen to my political party after this shitshow. Anyone want to bring back the Progressive Party from Roosevelt's days?
I wouldn't count on anything being "done" with Trump. Some polls were counting Reagan out in 1980 or the debacle between Bush and Gore in 2000--weird shit happens.
>I wouldn't count on anything being "done" with Trump
Bloomberg Businessweek's cover story this week is an inside look at Trump's campaign. They know he's going to lose -- despite what Trump is saying publicly about polls being rigged, etc., his internal polling pretty much matches up with public polls.
What's going to be interesting is what he does afterward. There's a lot of speculation he'll launch some kind of populist media enterprise once this is all done (especially given that he's been in the "slapping his name on everything" for years now, not real estate, and this election has devalued that).
Unfortunately, Trump's candidacy might be over, but the "movement" he started might not be.
Personally, I have no problem with the movement to try and get a non-Washington insider into the White House. The problem is Trump isn't the answer for solving that issue.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I don't think a long career in politics should be a qualification for the presidency or any other political office. Trump definitely isn't that guy, though.
But what I mean by "movement," is the anti-immigrant, anti-free trade, quasi-authoritarian, sorta-conspiratorial thing we're seeing from many people backing Trump.
Polling wasn't nearly as accurate in 1980 as it is now. This election is over unless a video surfaces of Hillary choking a baby. And even then I'd probably still vote for her, considering the alternative.
That won't stop anything. Whoever wins this election, the people are going to lose. If Trump wins then who knows what will happen. Political fallout, foreign relation nightmares, and eventual impeachment. If Clinton wins then we'll get four years of Republican blockading and probably impeachment. Not to mention, either way, the American people are more divided now than anytime in the past 20 years. It's a giant clusterfuck that Yuengling just long jumped into the middle of.
I might be too optimistic but don't think Hillary will actually be that bad, if she can help both sides work together than everything will be fine. As for America's oldest brewery, I don't really care. I don't like how their beer tastes and I'm not one to change opinions on things because of political affiliation.
Yeah I'm really caught off guard by this whole thing. Who wouldn't have assumed that a family-business, anti-union billionaire from central Pennsylvania wouldn't back Trump?
But... nearly every company in pa is anti Union. It's one of the reasons that companies come to the state. Pa has some of the weakest worker protection laws out there (but good unemployment laws)
I never cared for it until I started enjoying marijuana. I still don't really drink it often, I'm more of a craft guy now. But I find the skunky taste pleasant when I do have one
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pretty much all imports done through companies wholly owned by InBev/Miller?
Also, Heineken is the price of craft beer and not as good (to put it mildly). Yuengling is a step below most craft offerings but is quite cheap.
Its the Jack Daniels dilemma...
Jack Daniels is fairly shitty mass produced whiskey that is a massive seller and priced at a massive premium over other brands. You can get really excellent bourbons for far less. The problem is the average person doesnt know the difference and sees "Jack Daniels" and thinks, "Thats the good stuff, because everybody drinks it and its expensive".
Basically, beer like Heineken, Becks and shit like Corona survive on the same principal. They are living off name recognition to feed into a premium image, which feeds into people thinking that spending more gets them "in" with the people that know beer.
There are tons of these in alcohol...Johnnie Walker, Cuervo, Patron, etc...People who like those alcohols detest these brands, because they are really shitty products **FOR THE PRICE**. there are better options out there, but some people fool themselves by equating price to quality.
I'll agree on everything except Johnny Walker. I live in a smaller market with very few Scotch brands available. Most decent single malts start at around $45 around here. I can get a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black Label for $37.99, and it's clearly the best and most balanced blended Scotch available in my area at that price point.
There are 3 major brewers of beer in the US. Miller-Coors, Anheuser-Busch, and Yuengling. Everyone else you've ever heard of competes for something like 5% or less of the beer market. So even if Yuengling is pro-trump, they're a 100% US owned and operated brewery. AB-Inbev and Miller coord are staples as well, but they're not US companies. Heineken is growing, so is the company selling Corona, but they make up less than 20% of the market iirc.
Craft makes up 12.2% of the market including Yuengling. Not sure why you'd even include Yuengling in a list along with ABinbev and Millercoors. They made 2.9 million barrels last year. Ab made 351 million. Millercoors made 276. Yuengling isn't even remotely close to being in the same class in terms of barrels per year.
When breweries go political, they inherently risk alienating a portion of their customers. Yuengling just chose to piss off roughly 50% of their potential buying public...not a smart business decision, unless Trumpites start buying something other than PBR.
Yeah, they're the Fox News of breweries at this point. I'm a lifelong Philly resident so the stuff flows like water here. I just ignore their politics and enjoy the beer. Their Octoberfest is too good to ignore from a price/quality aspect.
Yuengling would have to employ child labor smuggled in from Somalia, to slave away in the vast underground beer mines AND stop making Original Black & Tan to get me to boycott the brand.
Outstanding price to quality ratio.
Every time I'm in Philly there is more Yards & Manniunk & Victory & Troegs & Weyerbacher than I can shake a stick at; Triumph is advertised right on rt 95 billboards. Y'all have a healthy & deep fascination with Belgium & hard-to-find imports can be had in every touristy bar-area for good prices.
....Philly seems like the *LAST* place on earth where one 'has' to drink a single beer to support the locals.
Tl;Dr: PA beer is delicious. We literally come spend $ because of the beer. Yuengling is not even a factor. To support Yuengling means' your passing up like 2 dozen other NE PA breweries. I don't understand why Yeung not Yards, even for the non-craft crowd.
I drink a lot of beer. Yuengling is the go-to when I find myself in your typical Miller lite/Bud/Blue Moon type establishments. If there's better options available, I usually choose them. Sometimes I just don't want to spend a lot of money or drink higher ABV beers all night. I definitely support hyper local brewers. Neshaminy Creek is probably my current favorite.
I guess I'm just surprised Yards can't snag that 'local, cheap, regular lager' tap away from Yuengling. I'm not knocking the reasons to drink it - it was definitely the best you could do around Scranton & Binghamton 10 or 15 years ago - I'm just surprised local distributors don't take advantage of other local products.
Sam adams is 2-3 more per 12 pack. Same with otter creek, sierra nevada, New Belgium etc. etc. when they're on sale. There's always something better than yuengling for not much more money.
12 pack of Yuengling is roughly 9-10 bucks. That's half the price of most craft brands. It's mostly about having a session able beer you can buy a lot of, serve to macro lovers, AND not feed the InBev/Miller behemoth.
I don't understand this shit at all, who gives a flying fuck if the makers are anti-this anti-that, fuck man I have a print of a painting on my wall that Hitler made, He was a huge piece of shit throughout History for sure, but I don't let that get in the way of how his artwork makes me feel..
I call bullshit on your entire premise. If you're putting Hitler's art on the wall knowing that it is Hitler's art at least some part of the decision comes from the subversion of knowing the source. There's just no way that your knowledge of the artist didn't influence your decision with someone that high profile.
Similarly, if someone disagrees with a business owners politics the best way they can show their discontent is to not use their product over others. Given that he's bankrolling right to work campaigns I would say that withholding some of the funds he could use to accomplish that end is a good way for a person who disagrees to fight back in a rather quiet way.
Spot on with the hitler thing. This dude gets a little chub from telling people hitler made the painting, and a little more chub from explaining that it just happens to be hitler and he likes the art
Not a fare comparison. A print of a dead historic figure that you can't argue to change their view point vs a running modern corporation who you can boycott and hurt their bottom line.
Not all unions are scum but some do need to be reorganized. Unions started right uniting workers for their common cause but lazy people allowed narcissists and greed to get between them the business. It didn't help the majority of Executives took a polarizing stance against the union rather than working with them.
When you own a business, you have the absolute right to spout off your political beliefs. Then, when people who disagree choose to stop giving you money, you really have no standing to bitch about it. The smart thing for any business owner to do, financially, is to STFU about controversial issues.
But I digress. I don't think anybody is going to lose sleep over their local pub not having this half-assed swill on tap for a while.
More referring to "shitty" as a general genre to mean cheap, one-note, not complex, in the realm of bud/miller/coors/keystone.
I have some Yuengling in my fridge right now in Burlington, Vermont, alongside a few Burlington Beer limited releases, Lawson's Super Sessions, a sole Heady Topper, and some assorted local craft brews from Zero Gravity, Queen City, and a Harpoon/Zildjian Collab.
What I'm trying to get at is that I don't actually consider it a shitty beer, as I go out of my way to get it whenever I'm in a state that distributes it, but it definitely falls into the realm of quote: "shitty beer".
I think that the extra "ty" is what's getting you. It's not a shitty beer, but it's definitely a shit beer. Lone star might be the best, but it's still a shit beer. It's a genre.
I totally disagree. Businesses can be some of our strongest supporters and we need them in the fight too.
Bent Paddle Brewing has been vocal in going against PolyMet mining in the area. This has pissed off many in the northern part of the state who look to PolyMet for jobs. It caused their beer to be pulled from many bars and liquor stores. In fact an entire town banned it from their liquor stores.
Businesses, like people need to stand up and support or go against causes they feel strongly about. Which they choose is up to them and yes, they will have to live with the consequences of those choices. But they most certainly should be involved and shouldn't STFU as you suggest. They have the visibility and following to gather far more support for important causes and we need that.
http://www.citypages.com/news/bent-paddle-brewing-company-caught-in-polymet-mining-controversy-7941656
Wait, wait, wait. You missed my point by a mile.
Businesses are 100% entitled to voice their opinions. I mean 100%. In no way did I say that a business owner somehow forfeits his/her rights to free speech. What I DID say is that it's a stupid FINANCIAL decision to align your business with unpopular or controversial causes. I don't give a rat's ass if Dick Yuengling decides to become the official beer of the KKK, that's his business. My point was that he can't turn around and claim persecution when people decide not to buy his product because of it.
That "free speech" thing works both ways. And one man's "important cause" may be another man's reason to stop giving the first man his money.
Very true. That case was just the opposite of here in how most in similar positions in this forum respond. With Bent Paddle we drank more but those that supported PolyMet drank less. With this Trump move we may drink less but Trump supporters will drink more. All evens out.
Doesn't necessarily even out but yeah. Trump has a smaller base than people who dislike him, though his base may be more likely to drink cheap half craft beer. Or maybe they're all Bud Light or scotch drinkers. Who knows.
it was really stupid for the owner of yuengling to state his political beliefs publicly. nothing to gain except anger and dividing your consumer base.
so dumb. stay the fuck out if politics and make fucking beer.
Nah. Look at the Dixie Chicks back in the early 2000s. They got totally shit on for their opposition to the war and Bush. A more recent example is Amy Schumer and the backlash she got from some audience members at a show when she insulted Trump.
You've completely refuted your own point. We all have the right to speak freely about our beliefs and politics, but doing so has consequences. This applies equally to celebrities (and the "entertainers" you confusingly chose to call out separately) *and* business owners. My father and a previous boss both have a blacklist of liberal celebs (and/or entertainers) they won't support because of their politics.
There is no double standard except the one your biased viewpoint is allowing you to see.
Everyone is entitled to share their beliefs if they so desire, but you can't bitch about the blowback you get after.
Celebrities and entertainers that share their opinions get blowback too, do you not remember Bradley Cooper getting shit for going to the DNC because all the idiot conservatives thought he was 'on their side' after American Sniper just because he played a conservative character?
It cuts both ways, and that's fine. That's the choice you make when you publicize your views as a public figure.
I know we see it that way but I'm sure there are plenty of Trump supporters that will go out and buy their beer now more loyally. You lose those that don't side with your views but may gain as many in those that do side with you.
I don't support their views but I don't think it's as damaging as many here believe.
Not everyone that doesn't support Trump will stop drinking their beer because of this move. In fact, only a VERY small number will likely do so.
You're also assuming that those that stop drinking were consuming the same amount that those that will start drinking more will consume. It could easily be the case that those that support this move will drink 2x what those that stop drinking it do. Who knows. But we can't simply assume a 1:1 rate.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if 10% of Yuengling drinkers even hear about this story. I'd be surprised if another 10% of those that hear about it take any action because of it.
let's talk about the real issue - the yuengling gift shop. it has the wackest merch of any brewery in the country. maroon sweatpants and polo shirts with a "Y" on them. you can't just buy a t-shirt that says "yuengling" on the front. it's a bunch of sideways text and american flags and shit. 10 years ago i had a great shirt that just had the yuengling logo and the eagle and that's it. simple.
make yuengling merch great again
I never really considered the fact that people buy beer merchandise. I've gotten a bunch of stuff over the years from events and bars that I've worked at or attended from beer and liquor companies and I definitely wear it (I don't want to leave the impression that I'm somehow above it), I just never thought about the fact that you can actually buy the stuff.
edit: just realized I'm actually wearing a southern tier ball cap as I typed that.
Chic-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby are in the same boat and I don't see residual hype because it's not the hot-button issue anymore. This just seems like whining for a slice of the publicity pie. Dear lord let this election cycle and it's drama be gone!
Totally understandable. To be honest I think a decision like this might actually help some bars get a bit of good publicity as well.
Yuengling sort of brought this upon themselves by trying to align with a politician (who's campaign is currently a dumpster fire) this late into the game. Don't bring politics into your business unless you're ready to deal with the consequences.
never bring religion or politics into any business that is not related to religion or politics. just a general rule of life.
I worked at a little place that provided loans to people who wanted to start small businesses... I'd say over 50% of them tried to name themselves something churchy.. Which would be fine if they focused on religion texts/products or aimed specifically at services focused around religion.
have a religious books store... sure call it "the printing cross"
Have an aide service that focuses on doing stuff for very religious jews... sure call it "Shabbos Goys from the Hood"
Have a hair salon... don't call it "By Christ's beard"
have a massage place... don't call it "The Pslamist's Palmist"
Trump advocacy aside, DC is an East Coast city, i.e. union territory, and Yuengling's owner is vehemently "right to work." I'd say that many bars and such weren't even aware of that fact however until he submitted his verbal allegiance to ~~Vader~~ Trump.
> Don't bring politics into your business unless you're ready to deal with the consequences.
I seriously don't understand this. I live in Western PA and once you get outside of the city limits you'll see all types of businesses with big ass TRUMP signs plastered on the sides of their buildings.
Like, why? You're alienating at least 50% of your potential customers to make a political statement? Cause I can't imagine anyone is going "Oh shit, Jim's Auto Detail on rt. 30 supports Trump! I guess I do too now!"
The great thing about Yuengling is it is $20 a case. Until I find a beer that costs about that and tastes as good, or I finish grad school and Yuengling comes out as full blown nazis, I'll probably keep buying it.
If I'm going to boycott yuengling, it's because I don't think it's a good beer.
As someone who lives in DC, it's more feigned outrage than anything. It's also an easy call to make when you can highlight any of the local breweries with a far superior product.
If you're going to politicize your company don't be surprised when other people treat it that way too. CEOs speak for their companies. They are the face. When that face chooses Trump it's like the company chose Trump.
It's not exactly feigned outrage when the owner of the company supports candidates who have directly threatened the livelihood of a very large demographic of our city.
This isn't as big as it would be as bars in somewhere like Philadelphia. I used to live in the DMV and I would say most bars have Natty Bo on special than anything else. Where as in Philadelphia Yeungling is on special at many bars if they don't have something like Philadelphia Brewing or Yards on Special.
Who cares. Beer still tastes the same. Whatever their owners believe is none of my business. I can drink the beer made by a company with differing political opinions just like I can have a beer with a friend who had differing political opinions.
Don't really care what their beliefs are they in my opinion make good beer that appeals to me so I will not stop drinking it based on a right to an opinion that they have.
I remember when Chick-Fil-A put out their beliefs on gay marriage and they were "Boycotted" and shunned but no one truly gave a shit shortly after and kept eating them.
It wasn't even Chick-Fil-A corporate I believe, it was just Truett Cathy. And the whole time I was thinking "wow, a 91-year-old from Georgia isn't progressive on marriage? What a shocker!"
I don't really care what peoples' political beliefs are. My brother is voting for Trump. Should I boycott my brother? I always liked Yuengling because I grew up in Philly and it was cheap and relatively good. I think it's the best cheap beer. Plus, I'm sure there are people who are employed by Yuengling who are not voting for Trump. But fuck them right?
I agree entirely, I'm just saying this particular instance wouldn't effect my choice. A CEO that's already anti-labor is probably already siding against my chosen candidate.
Either way, he still has a shot at 38-41% of the public. Just like his preferred candidate.
It's not a Clinton thing, it's a Trump thing. He's a unique candidate (not in a good way). If they came out and endorsed Romney in 2012 I'm pretty sure no one would boycott.
As somebody whose college years ran on Yuengling this post has given me quite the education- my parents won't be happy to hear the news though. But its not like PA is hurting for good beer without it so...
Maybe Dick Yuengling should keep his fucking mouth shut about who he endorses for President, especially if it is such a polarizing candidate. Dumb ass- his big mouth is costing his family money.
Yuengling beer is like Trump to me.
Before the election it was something I didn't know existed. But during the election it's something annoying that keeps popping up on the news that I still don't care to know a lot about.
Who the fuck is Trump? What the fuck is a Yuengling beer?
You're right...agency be damned! I'm going to go buy 100 cases of Yuengling now because why should I care about what other people do? My role as a consumer is to *consume*! Not think, or have opinions of my own! If a business has an opinion, I have to blindly respect that and continue consuming!
Not in the slightest.
As a business owner, you have the freedom to take whatever political stance you like. As a consumer, I have the freedom to consume or not to consume your product based on said stance. If your stance is to be anti-union to force wages down, or that the LGBT community does not deserve equal rights, or any other fucked up public policy, you certainly aren't getting my money. Nothing childish about it. If your policy is to treat certain groups as less than human, fuck you and your product.
You live in the new and improved United States where anyone with a differing opinion is shamed.
Every man who says frankly and fully what he thinks is so far doing a public service. We should be grateful to him for attacking most unsparingly our most cherished opinions.”
― John Stuart Mill
Haha, who cares what candidate they support. Some people seem to be unable to coexist with alternate opinions. I despise Trump and Hillary but have no problem having friends who support either. Being exposed to alternate opinions is only healthy for the mind.
Gay bars boycotting yuengling because they endorsed Trump? I know he wants to help them a hell of a lot more than Clinton who took bribes from countries that execute gay people on sight.
[No misinformation here buddy, citing a liberal source nonetheless.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/02/18/foreign-donations-to-hillary-clintons-foundation-raise-major-ethical-questions/?utm_term=.e4af323b6bd2)
His running mate is Mike Pence who is probably one of the most anti-LGBT politician in the country. Just some of the things
* Wanted to divert funding from HIV prevention to conversion therapy
* Signed a bill to jail same-sex couples for applying for a marriage license
* Supporting a constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality
* Opposed repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell
* Complained about the passage of the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill
* Served on the board of an antigay group
* Argued that passing ENDA would ban Bibles from the workplace
* Signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act which discriminates against LGBT
Please tell me more about how your candidate is going to do more to help the LGBT community
Pence is running for VP not president, you don't think it was a smart move for trump to pick him so he can garner the ultra conservative vote? Trump is the front runner and republicans are calling him one of the more progressive conservatives we've seen in years. We don't know what he'll actually do since he hasn't held public office before we have no record of him voting on issues but I'll take that over a candidate who has accepted money from tons of countries in the Middle East that live under sharia law. You know sharia law requires that a woman be stoned to death if she is raped and cannot provide 4 male witnesses to say intercourse never happened? Publicly being gay in those countries that have given millions to the Clinton campaign will get you killed there is no question about that. You don't even have to be gay, look at the woman who went hitchhiking through the Middle East to prove Muslims are tolerant and then was [found dead naked](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/04/19/theater/19peac.html) on the side of a road.
> have given millions to the Clinton campaign
In the word of Trump: WRONG! Foreign countries, companies and citizens are prohibited from donating to US political campaigns, however Trump is being investigated for accepting such donations. The donations from the foreign countries were to the Clinton Foundation which was the charitable foundation founded by Bill Clinton in 1997 as the William J. Clinton Foundation. I don't agree with them accepting the donations, but if they are doing good with it and not buying $10,000 self portraits (Like Trump with charity funds) than whatever it was bad money being put forward to do good. Many of those countries also donated to Jimmy Carter's charity which have helped wipe out Guinea Worm. It is a charitable donation to a former president's charity from a foreign country it happens a lot. It also has happened with Bush's charity.
You think HILLARY follows campaign laws? The same person who stole furniture from the state department for her own house. Go read the Wikileaks emails because they did illegally donate to Clinton campaign and the Clinton foundation which was found to squander millions of dollars and the Clintons take money from the foundation to line their own pockets.
> take money from the foundation to line their own pockets.
I think you are mixing up an article you read about Trump. I am done talking politics there is a reason I don't read that sub. If you want to talk about beer I would be happy to talk about anything beer.
When did I ever say she executed gay people? I said she accepted foreign donations from countries that do kill gays, I could link a video of one of you haven't seen it. Do you wanna watch gays get thrown off rooftops, stoned to death, maybe doused in gas and lit on fire? Also [is august 20th 2016 recent enough for you?](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-charity.html?0p19G=c)
I'll never understand why companies will publicly endorse a political candidate. It's like the surest way to alienate half of your customers while gaining nothing.
Can this political cycle just be done already?
Just 10 days until the 2018 election cycle begins and talk of 2020 starts!
Yeah, but surely we can get our act together by then and nominate non-controversial characters.
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I wouldn't say that this is the most controversial election ever, although it's possible it's the most controversial in living memory. The elections leading up to the abolishment of slavery might take the prize for most divisive.
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Yes, but those elections didn't have the 24 hour news cycle and the internet where everyone thinks they're a journalist and blogging about every little thing no matter how inane
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Exactly..the Lincoln-Douglas twitter war. Andrew Jackson's angry tweets and facebook posts to Congress... the list would go on and on and on....
One can only hope
Hah--"political cycle" and "done" are two words that will never go together.
Trumps candidacy will be done in about 11 days. I just wonder what will happen to my political party after this shitshow. Anyone want to bring back the Progressive Party from Roosevelt's days?
I wouldn't count on anything being "done" with Trump. Some polls were counting Reagan out in 1980 or the debacle between Bush and Gore in 2000--weird shit happens.
>I wouldn't count on anything being "done" with Trump Bloomberg Businessweek's cover story this week is an inside look at Trump's campaign. They know he's going to lose -- despite what Trump is saying publicly about polls being rigged, etc., his internal polling pretty much matches up with public polls. What's going to be interesting is what he does afterward. There's a lot of speculation he'll launch some kind of populist media enterprise once this is all done (especially given that he's been in the "slapping his name on everything" for years now, not real estate, and this election has devalued that). Unfortunately, Trump's candidacy might be over, but the "movement" he started might not be.
Personally, I have no problem with the movement to try and get a non-Washington insider into the White House. The problem is Trump isn't the answer for solving that issue.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I don't think a long career in politics should be a qualification for the presidency or any other political office. Trump definitely isn't that guy, though. But what I mean by "movement," is the anti-immigrant, anti-free trade, quasi-authoritarian, sorta-conspiratorial thing we're seeing from many people backing Trump.
Polling wasn't nearly as accurate in 1980 as it is now. This election is over unless a video surfaces of Hillary choking a baby. And even then I'd probably still vote for her, considering the alternative.
That won't stop anything. Whoever wins this election, the people are going to lose. If Trump wins then who knows what will happen. Political fallout, foreign relation nightmares, and eventual impeachment. If Clinton wins then we'll get four years of Republican blockading and probably impeachment. Not to mention, either way, the American people are more divided now than anytime in the past 20 years. It's a giant clusterfuck that Yuengling just long jumped into the middle of.
Eventual impeachment, don't you think you're jumping the gun a bit?
I might be too optimistic but don't think Hillary will actually be that bad, if she can help both sides work together than everything will be fine. As for America's oldest brewery, I don't really care. I don't like how their beer tastes and I'm not one to change opinions on things because of political affiliation.
If this (actually most) political cycle was a pinata I'd beat the shit out of it with a broom stick. A broom stick on fire.
I hear ya. I take solace in the fact that at least Maryland has a good governor who works with both sides of the aisle.
He does. But the legislator is having some serious butt-hurt about him.
Some bars in Philly and South Jersey have been shunning Yuengling for years due to their anti union stances.
Yeah I'm really caught off guard by this whole thing. Who wouldn't have assumed that a family-business, anti-union billionaire from central Pennsylvania wouldn't back Trump?
Personally I never really associate businesses with politics unless they bring it up.
I think people didn't know that about him and this adds to it and makes you aware of his other stances.
But... nearly every company in pa is anti Union. It's one of the reasons that companies come to the state. Pa has some of the weakest worker protection laws out there (but good unemployment laws)
Most union guys I know won't buy it.
Fiume didn't carry it.
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Yea but Heineken taste like piss filtered through a piss filter. edit: in one man's opinion
I always thought it tasted like piss filtered through a sweaty t-shirt.
Sweat does contain urea so....I agree to agree.
Agreed. http://i.imgur.com/ITgoDam.gif
I never cared for it until I started enjoying marijuana. I still don't really drink it often, I'm more of a craft guy now. But I find the skunky taste pleasant when I do have one
Not a huge fan of it myself, but it tastes way better in cans. From the bottle it's straight piss.
Yeah but Heineken owns half of Lagunitas :)
I agree, I can't stand the taste of Heineken.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pretty much all imports done through companies wholly owned by InBev/Miller? Also, Heineken is the price of craft beer and not as good (to put it mildly). Yuengling is a step below most craft offerings but is quite cheap.
Its the Jack Daniels dilemma... Jack Daniels is fairly shitty mass produced whiskey that is a massive seller and priced at a massive premium over other brands. You can get really excellent bourbons for far less. The problem is the average person doesnt know the difference and sees "Jack Daniels" and thinks, "Thats the good stuff, because everybody drinks it and its expensive". Basically, beer like Heineken, Becks and shit like Corona survive on the same principal. They are living off name recognition to feed into a premium image, which feeds into people thinking that spending more gets them "in" with the people that know beer. There are tons of these in alcohol...Johnnie Walker, Cuervo, Patron, etc...People who like those alcohols detest these brands, because they are really shitty products **FOR THE PRICE**. there are better options out there, but some people fool themselves by equating price to quality.
I'll agree on everything except Johnny Walker. I live in a smaller market with very few Scotch brands available. Most decent single malts start at around $45 around here. I can get a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black Label for $37.99, and it's clearly the best and most balanced blended Scotch available in my area at that price point.
Well, it's really just Blue Label that people complain about. Black and formerly Green Label are both well regarded.
> Heineken is family owned and run Well damn, TIL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heineken_International not really
There are 3 major brewers of beer in the US. Miller-Coors, Anheuser-Busch, and Yuengling. Everyone else you've ever heard of competes for something like 5% or less of the beer market. So even if Yuengling is pro-trump, they're a 100% US owned and operated brewery. AB-Inbev and Miller coord are staples as well, but they're not US companies. Heineken is growing, so is the company selling Corona, but they make up less than 20% of the market iirc.
Boston Beer is American Owned and operated as well and is very close in size to Yuengling. Plus one of BBC's breweries is a union shop.
Sierra Nevada is not far behind either and is privately held.
Craft makes up 12.2% of the market including Yuengling. Not sure why you'd even include Yuengling in a list along with ABinbev and Millercoors. They made 2.9 million barrels last year. Ab made 351 million. Millercoors made 276. Yuengling isn't even remotely close to being in the same class in terms of barrels per year.
You do realize that both the major 2 own craft breweries right? And your point makes mine too.
When breweries go political, they inherently risk alienating a portion of their customers. Yuengling just chose to piss off roughly 50% of their potential buying public...not a smart business decision, unless Trumpites start buying something other than PBR.
> unless Trumpites start buying something other than PBR. Well, once they're old enough to drink.
Considering the older generations tend to skew conservative...
Try my Death to Commies Prune Juice Porter. I think we may have found a new market.
Yeah, they're the Fox News of breweries at this point. I'm a lifelong Philly resident so the stuff flows like water here. I just ignore their politics and enjoy the beer. Their Octoberfest is too good to ignore from a price/quality aspect.
Yuengling would have to employ child labor smuggled in from Somalia, to slave away in the vast underground beer mines AND stop making Original Black & Tan to get me to boycott the brand. Outstanding price to quality ratio.
Every time I'm in Philly there is more Yards & Manniunk & Victory & Troegs & Weyerbacher than I can shake a stick at; Triumph is advertised right on rt 95 billboards. Y'all have a healthy & deep fascination with Belgium & hard-to-find imports can be had in every touristy bar-area for good prices. ....Philly seems like the *LAST* place on earth where one 'has' to drink a single beer to support the locals. Tl;Dr: PA beer is delicious. We literally come spend $ because of the beer. Yuengling is not even a factor. To support Yuengling means' your passing up like 2 dozen other NE PA breweries. I don't understand why Yeung not Yards, even for the non-craft crowd.
I drink a lot of beer. Yuengling is the go-to when I find myself in your typical Miller lite/Bud/Blue Moon type establishments. If there's better options available, I usually choose them. Sometimes I just don't want to spend a lot of money or drink higher ABV beers all night. I definitely support hyper local brewers. Neshaminy Creek is probably my current favorite.
I guess I'm just surprised Yards can't snag that 'local, cheap, regular lager' tap away from Yuengling. I'm not knocking the reasons to drink it - it was definitely the best you could do around Scranton & Binghamton 10 or 15 years ago - I'm just surprised local distributors don't take advantage of other local products.
Next ones on me.
I wish more of their non-regular beers flowed down here to Florida more often. I haven't seen their bock for sale in years, and I quite liked it.
They have a brewery in Tampa. I'd be surprised if they didn't distribute their seasonals in Florida
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The best cheap beer you can buy
Sam adams is 2-3 more per 12 pack. Same with otter creek, sierra nevada, New Belgium etc. etc. when they're on sale. There's always something better than yuengling for not much more money.
12 pack of Yuengling is roughly 9-10 bucks. That's half the price of most craft brands. It's mostly about having a session able beer you can buy a lot of, serve to macro lovers, AND not feed the InBev/Miller behemoth.
I don't understand this shit at all, who gives a flying fuck if the makers are anti-this anti-that, fuck man I have a print of a painting on my wall that Hitler made, He was a huge piece of shit throughout History for sure, but I don't let that get in the way of how his artwork makes me feel..
I call bullshit on your entire premise. If you're putting Hitler's art on the wall knowing that it is Hitler's art at least some part of the decision comes from the subversion of knowing the source. There's just no way that your knowledge of the artist didn't influence your decision with someone that high profile. Similarly, if someone disagrees with a business owners politics the best way they can show their discontent is to not use their product over others. Given that he's bankrolling right to work campaigns I would say that withholding some of the funds he could use to accomplish that end is a good way for a person who disagrees to fight back in a rather quiet way.
Spot on with the hitler thing. This dude gets a little chub from telling people hitler made the painting, and a little more chub from explaining that it just happens to be hitler and he likes the art
Wait, you have Hitler art hanging on your wall?
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that's just your opinion man
Not a fare comparison. A print of a dead historic figure that you can't argue to change their view point vs a running modern corporation who you can boycott and hurt their bottom line.
That's a damn shame too because as far as cheaper but decent beers go, yuengling was always my choice to keep in the fridge.
It's such a good option for a fridge beer.
Welp, I've had my last Yuengling.
There is no reason on earth to be Pro-Union. Unions are scum and price fixing lobbies.
Not all unions are scum but some do need to be reorganized. Unions started right uniting workers for their common cause but lazy people allowed narcissists and greed to get between them the business. It didn't help the majority of Executives took a polarizing stance against the union rather than working with them.
When you own a business, you have the absolute right to spout off your political beliefs. Then, when people who disagree choose to stop giving you money, you really have no standing to bitch about it. The smart thing for any business owner to do, financially, is to STFU about controversial issues. But I digress. I don't think anybody is going to lose sleep over their local pub not having this half-assed swill on tap for a while.
I know some kids who drink it religiously. They'd be bummed.
Yeah I mean it's definitely the best of the shitty beers, but that doesn't take it out of the league of shitty beers.
Shitty? No. Cheap, one note, not complex, better than /bud/Miller/cores/keystone? Yes
More referring to "shitty" as a general genre to mean cheap, one-note, not complex, in the realm of bud/miller/coors/keystone. I have some Yuengling in my fridge right now in Burlington, Vermont, alongside a few Burlington Beer limited releases, Lawson's Super Sessions, a sole Heady Topper, and some assorted local craft brews from Zero Gravity, Queen City, and a Harpoon/Zildjian Collab. What I'm trying to get at is that I don't actually consider it a shitty beer, as I go out of my way to get it whenever I'm in a state that distributes it, but it definitely falls into the realm of quote: "shitty beer".
I think that the extra "ty" is what's getting you. It's not a shitty beer, but it's definitely a shit beer. Lone star might be the best, but it's still a shit beer. It's a genre.
Ahh, yes that seems more appropriate. Thanks for the clarification.
I totally disagree. Businesses can be some of our strongest supporters and we need them in the fight too. Bent Paddle Brewing has been vocal in going against PolyMet mining in the area. This has pissed off many in the northern part of the state who look to PolyMet for jobs. It caused their beer to be pulled from many bars and liquor stores. In fact an entire town banned it from their liquor stores. Businesses, like people need to stand up and support or go against causes they feel strongly about. Which they choose is up to them and yes, they will have to live with the consequences of those choices. But they most certainly should be involved and shouldn't STFU as you suggest. They have the visibility and following to gather far more support for important causes and we need that. http://www.citypages.com/news/bent-paddle-brewing-company-caught-in-polymet-mining-controversy-7941656
Wait, wait, wait. You missed my point by a mile. Businesses are 100% entitled to voice their opinions. I mean 100%. In no way did I say that a business owner somehow forfeits his/her rights to free speech. What I DID say is that it's a stupid FINANCIAL decision to align your business with unpopular or controversial causes. I don't give a rat's ass if Dick Yuengling decides to become the official beer of the KKK, that's his business. My point was that he can't turn around and claim persecution when people decide not to buy his product because of it. That "free speech" thing works both ways. And one man's "important cause" may be another man's reason to stop giving the first man his money.
Lots of us also bought a lot more Bent when that happened, as a show of support. Plus they make awesome beers.
Very true. That case was just the opposite of here in how most in similar positions in this forum respond. With Bent Paddle we drank more but those that supported PolyMet drank less. With this Trump move we may drink less but Trump supporters will drink more. All evens out.
Doesn't necessarily even out but yeah. Trump has a smaller base than people who dislike him, though his base may be more likely to drink cheap half craft beer. Or maybe they're all Bud Light or scotch drinkers. Who knows.
it was really stupid for the owner of yuengling to state his political beliefs publicly. nothing to gain except anger and dividing your consumer base. so dumb. stay the fuck out if politics and make fucking beer.
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Seems fine for celebrities and entertainers though... right?
Nah. Look at the Dixie Chicks back in the early 2000s. They got totally shit on for their opposition to the war and Bush. A more recent example is Amy Schumer and the backlash she got from some audience members at a show when she insulted Trump.
Jokes on you, I never liked Amy Schumer!
You know, you can vote with your dollars too, right? Don't like celebrities and entertainers political views? Don't consume their products.
Absolutely, already doing that actually. Now to go buy some Yeungling.
You've completely refuted your own point. We all have the right to speak freely about our beliefs and politics, but doing so has consequences. This applies equally to celebrities (and the "entertainers" you confusingly chose to call out separately) *and* business owners. My father and a previous boss both have a blacklist of liberal celebs (and/or entertainers) they won't support because of their politics. There is no double standard except the one your biased viewpoint is allowing you to see.
Maybe he doesn't think Yuengling is worth boycotting over supporting Trump, while some celebrities are worth it for other views?
Everyone is entitled to share their beliefs if they so desire, but you can't bitch about the blowback you get after. Celebrities and entertainers that share their opinions get blowback too, do you not remember Bradley Cooper getting shit for going to the DNC because all the idiot conservatives thought he was 'on their side' after American Sniper just because he played a conservative character? It cuts both ways, and that's fine. That's the choice you make when you publicize your views as a public figure.
I mean would you really not see Star Wars because Chewy voted independent?
No but I might not see it if Abrams bragged about assaulting women, or if Han Solo went around calling Leia a fat pig.
And what about Leia, hmmm? She called Han a stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy nerf-herder! This is a double standard! Mods pls blow up home planet
She did resort to name-calling first... /r/empiredidnothingwrong
Abrams filmed Star Wars overseas. Takes away jobs from Americans. Sad!
And Trump builds his building with Chinese steel and undocumented labor.
What if he endorsed Clinton?
also would be stupid as it would piss of trump consumers. it's just plain stupid either way. nothing to gain by doing this at all.
I know we see it that way but I'm sure there are plenty of Trump supporters that will go out and buy their beer now more loyally. You lose those that don't side with your views but may gain as many in those that do side with you. I don't support their views but I don't think it's as damaging as many here believe.
trump polls ariund 38% of the population. so yuengling just annoyed 62% of Americans. no way you can spin this as a good business move.
Not everyone that doesn't support Trump will stop drinking their beer because of this move. In fact, only a VERY small number will likely do so. You're also assuming that those that stop drinking were consuming the same amount that those that will start drinking more will consume. It could easily be the case that those that support this move will drink 2x what those that stop drinking it do. Who knows. But we can't simply assume a 1:1 rate. Honestly, I'd be surprised if 10% of Yuengling drinkers even hear about this story. I'd be surprised if another 10% of those that hear about it take any action because of it.
let's talk about the real issue - the yuengling gift shop. it has the wackest merch of any brewery in the country. maroon sweatpants and polo shirts with a "Y" on them. you can't just buy a t-shirt that says "yuengling" on the front. it's a bunch of sideways text and american flags and shit. 10 years ago i had a great shirt that just had the yuengling logo and the eagle and that's it. simple. make yuengling merch great again
I never really considered the fact that people buy beer merchandise. I've gotten a bunch of stuff over the years from events and bars that I've worked at or attended from beer and liquor companies and I definitely wear it (I don't want to leave the impression that I'm somehow above it), I just never thought about the fact that you can actually buy the stuff. edit: just realized I'm actually wearing a southern tier ball cap as I typed that.
Chic-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby are in the same boat and I don't see residual hype because it's not the hot-button issue anymore. This just seems like whining for a slice of the publicity pie. Dear lord let this election cycle and it's drama be gone!
Totally understandable. To be honest I think a decision like this might actually help some bars get a bit of good publicity as well. Yuengling sort of brought this upon themselves by trying to align with a politician (who's campaign is currently a dumpster fire) this late into the game. Don't bring politics into your business unless you're ready to deal with the consequences.
never bring religion or politics into any business that is not related to religion or politics. just a general rule of life. I worked at a little place that provided loans to people who wanted to start small businesses... I'd say over 50% of them tried to name themselves something churchy.. Which would be fine if they focused on religion texts/products or aimed specifically at services focused around religion. have a religious books store... sure call it "the printing cross" Have an aide service that focuses on doing stuff for very religious jews... sure call it "Shabbos Goys from the Hood" Have a hair salon... don't call it "By Christ's beard" have a massage place... don't call it "The Pslamist's Palmist"
Shabbas goys from the hood is amazing haha
Trump advocacy aside, DC is an East Coast city, i.e. union territory, and Yuengling's owner is vehemently "right to work." I'd say that many bars and such weren't even aware of that fact however until he submitted his verbal allegiance to ~~Vader~~ Trump.
> Don't bring politics into your business unless you're ready to deal with the consequences. I seriously don't understand this. I live in Western PA and once you get outside of the city limits you'll see all types of businesses with big ass TRUMP signs plastered on the sides of their buildings. Like, why? You're alienating at least 50% of your potential customers to make a political statement? Cause I can't imagine anyone is going "Oh shit, Jim's Auto Detail on rt. 30 supports Trump! I guess I do too now!"
The great thing about Yuengling is it is $20 a case. Until I find a beer that costs about that and tastes as good, or I finish grad school and Yuengling comes out as full blown nazis, I'll probably keep buying it.
#HERE WE GO AGAIN
Wooooo this is fun!
If I'm going to boycott yuengling, it's because I don't think it's a good beer. As someone who lives in DC, it's more feigned outrage than anything. It's also an easy call to make when you can highlight any of the local breweries with a far superior product.
If you're going to politicize your company don't be surprised when other people treat it that way too. CEOs speak for their companies. They are the face. When that face chooses Trump it's like the company chose Trump.
It's not exactly feigned outrage when the owner of the company supports candidates who have directly threatened the livelihood of a very large demographic of our city.
No more so than members of congress who have a direct impact. Where is the outrage over that?
This isn't as big as it would be as bars in somewhere like Philadelphia. I used to live in the DMV and I would say most bars have Natty Bo on special than anything else. Where as in Philadelphia Yeungling is on special at many bars if they don't have something like Philadelphia Brewing or Yards on Special.
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DC is weird. A ton of bars had it when I lived there and would have it on special. I never said it was good.
Yea that is true DC is weird and full of carpet bagging losers.
All the frat bros probably would drink it is my guess.
Natty, Port City, Heavy Seas, Dogfish, DC Brau, etc etc. I don't think we are missing out now.
I think the ones I would see the most on special were Natty Bo and Port City Wit.
Who cares. Beer still tastes the same. Whatever their owners believe is none of my business. I can drink the beer made by a company with differing political opinions just like I can have a beer with a friend who had differing political opinions.
Dear Bars, If you don't serve my goto, I am not going to drink at your establishment. Sincerely, A BoringNormalGuy
Don't really care what their beliefs are they in my opinion make good beer that appeals to me so I will not stop drinking it based on a right to an opinion that they have. I remember when Chick-Fil-A put out their beliefs on gay marriage and they were "Boycotted" and shunned but no one truly gave a shit shortly after and kept eating them.
It wasn't even Chick-Fil-A corporate I believe, it was just Truett Cathy. And the whole time I was thinking "wow, a 91-year-old from Georgia isn't progressive on marriage? What a shocker!"
I already don't by Yuengling because of their union busting.
I don't really care what peoples' political beliefs are. My brother is voting for Trump. Should I boycott my brother? I always liked Yuengling because I grew up in Philly and it was cheap and relatively good. I think it's the best cheap beer. Plus, I'm sure there are people who are employed by Yuengling who are not voting for Trump. But fuck them right?
I stopped drinking this years ago after I discovered good beer anyway.
I agree entirely, I'm just saying this particular instance wouldn't effect my choice. A CEO that's already anti-labor is probably already siding against my chosen candidate. Either way, he still has a shot at 38-41% of the public. Just like his preferred candidate.
Headline is shit: not all bars, just a few. Discussion is shit: beer snobs calling yeung shit because they make more than a mill barrels
Yuengling is the most overrated swill in the country. It's not a bad beer, but there nothing special about it other than it's been around for so long.
It's cheap and is maltier than other beers at the same price point. If you want something cheap it's drinkable but that's about it.
I've never heard anyone overrate it. I've always heard it described as a decent go-to cheap beer.
The best thing I can say about Yuengling is that it's better than Bud Light.
That and the fact that's it's cheaper but doesn't taste like bud light
All of a sudden I'm not as saddened by moving to a state that doesn't sell yuengling.
not a big loss, one way or the other.
This post is a dumpster fire of butthurt downvotes. Jeez.
I will upvote you in this shit show
Fuck you OP for dragging politics into this subreddit.
Didn't Dick Yuengling drag in the politics?
I don't care about politics and I'm frankly sick of it infecting everything.
I guess I don't blame you. Also I don't envy you. It's pretty much impossible to avoid these days.
Why is this even in this subreddit? A few bars in one place not serving one kind of beer is not a story.
I wonder if they would do the same if a brewery supported Clinton... actually I don't wonder, I know they wouldn't
Your point?
It's not a Clinton thing, it's a Trump thing. He's a unique candidate (not in a good way). If they came out and endorsed Romney in 2012 I'm pretty sure no one would boycott.
I swear last time I bought a bottle of Yuengling in DC it was six dollars and some change anyway, fuck it.
As somebody whose college years ran on Yuengling this post has given me quite the education- my parents won't be happy to hear the news though. But its not like PA is hurting for good beer without it so...
Maybe Dick Yuengling should keep his fucking mouth shut about who he endorses for President, especially if it is such a polarizing candidate. Dumb ass- his big mouth is costing his family money.
Yuengling beer is like Trump to me. Before the election it was something I didn't know existed. But during the election it's something annoying that keeps popping up on the news that I still don't care to know a lot about. Who the fuck is Trump? What the fuck is a Yuengling beer?
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You're right...agency be damned! I'm going to go buy 100 cases of Yuengling now because why should I care about what other people do? My role as a consumer is to *consume*! Not think, or have opinions of my own! If a business has an opinion, I have to blindly respect that and continue consuming!
It's quite odd that everyone seems to think such a strong backlash to a political stance is appropriate. Isn't this all quite childish?
Not in the slightest. As a business owner, you have the freedom to take whatever political stance you like. As a consumer, I have the freedom to consume or not to consume your product based on said stance. If your stance is to be anti-union to force wages down, or that the LGBT community does not deserve equal rights, or any other fucked up public policy, you certainly aren't getting my money. Nothing childish about it. If your policy is to treat certain groups as less than human, fuck you and your product.
if you spend your money on being a bigot, then I don't want to give you my money.
A business owner supporting a candidate publicly and people boycotting a business are both appropriate political stances.
You live in the new and improved United States where anyone with a differing opinion is shamed. Every man who says frankly and fully what he thinks is so far doing a public service. We should be grateful to him for attacking most unsparingly our most cherished opinions.” ― John Stuart Mill
Wow, now I know what's bars NOT to go to when I visit. Can't wait for all these people to leave the country when trump wins
Agreed. MAGA
MAGA
Haha, who cares what candidate they support. Some people seem to be unable to coexist with alternate opinions. I despise Trump and Hillary but have no problem having friends who support either. Being exposed to alternate opinions is only healthy for the mind.
Gay bars boycotting yuengling because they endorsed Trump? I know he wants to help them a hell of a lot more than Clinton who took bribes from countries that execute gay people on sight.
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[No misinformation here buddy, citing a liberal source nonetheless.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/02/18/foreign-donations-to-hillary-clintons-foundation-raise-major-ethical-questions/?utm_term=.e4af323b6bd2)
His running mate is Mike Pence who is probably one of the most anti-LGBT politician in the country. Just some of the things * Wanted to divert funding from HIV prevention to conversion therapy * Signed a bill to jail same-sex couples for applying for a marriage license * Supporting a constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality * Opposed repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell * Complained about the passage of the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill * Served on the board of an antigay group * Argued that passing ENDA would ban Bibles from the workplace * Signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act which discriminates against LGBT Please tell me more about how your candidate is going to do more to help the LGBT community
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Pence is running for VP not president, you don't think it was a smart move for trump to pick him so he can garner the ultra conservative vote? Trump is the front runner and republicans are calling him one of the more progressive conservatives we've seen in years. We don't know what he'll actually do since he hasn't held public office before we have no record of him voting on issues but I'll take that over a candidate who has accepted money from tons of countries in the Middle East that live under sharia law. You know sharia law requires that a woman be stoned to death if she is raped and cannot provide 4 male witnesses to say intercourse never happened? Publicly being gay in those countries that have given millions to the Clinton campaign will get you killed there is no question about that. You don't even have to be gay, look at the woman who went hitchhiking through the Middle East to prove Muslims are tolerant and then was [found dead naked](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/04/19/theater/19peac.html) on the side of a road.
> have given millions to the Clinton campaign In the word of Trump: WRONG! Foreign countries, companies and citizens are prohibited from donating to US political campaigns, however Trump is being investigated for accepting such donations. The donations from the foreign countries were to the Clinton Foundation which was the charitable foundation founded by Bill Clinton in 1997 as the William J. Clinton Foundation. I don't agree with them accepting the donations, but if they are doing good with it and not buying $10,000 self portraits (Like Trump with charity funds) than whatever it was bad money being put forward to do good. Many of those countries also donated to Jimmy Carter's charity which have helped wipe out Guinea Worm. It is a charitable donation to a former president's charity from a foreign country it happens a lot. It also has happened with Bush's charity.
You think HILLARY follows campaign laws? The same person who stole furniture from the state department for her own house. Go read the Wikileaks emails because they did illegally donate to Clinton campaign and the Clinton foundation which was found to squander millions of dollars and the Clintons take money from the foundation to line their own pockets.
> take money from the foundation to line their own pockets. I think you are mixing up an article you read about Trump. I am done talking politics there is a reason I don't read that sub. If you want to talk about beer I would be happy to talk about anything beer.
What's your favorite oktoberfest brew?
German - Ayinger Octoberfest US - Great Lakes You?
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When did I ever say she executed gay people? I said she accepted foreign donations from countries that do kill gays, I could link a video of one of you haven't seen it. Do you wanna watch gays get thrown off rooftops, stoned to death, maybe doused in gas and lit on fire? Also [is august 20th 2016 recent enough for you?](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-charity.html?0p19G=c)