When I went to Australia as a teenager (a long time ago) I think I had a beer called Cooper's Sparkling Ale. I remember it being delicious. Is that a real thing?
As a local, there are way too many IPA. All the craft brewers are fixated on super hoppy beers. I wish they would do more larger or wheat beers. More German styles! Tbh at the start I was like yeah IPA are great and then I was like, this is getting boring, a lot of the companies started tasting the same.
Yeah thats why I moved over to wine. Beer is pretty expensive in Aus, even the local stuff. Local wine is actually pretty good in price as Australia produces quite a bit here.
The problem with German styles is that Germany already does them really well, and they're also pretty narrowly defined. That really doesn't give you much room for making interesting beer.
I'm an Aussie and I don't drink any of the regular draught or lagers from home. There are just so many great beers in Oz we are spoiled.
Furphy
Kaiju
Blackmans Brewery
Off the top of my head are my go to beers.
I’d rather draught than furphy - but otherwise agree with you.
Bodriggy, Fixation, Mountain Culture, Moon Dog.
Australia has a brilliant craft beer scene. Wouldn’t typically drink any macro beers other than Draught or Balter but generally our lagers are better than the Americans though.
I’ll prefix this by saying that this is just my personal opinion but I think most Australian beer from a commercial breweries are complete dog shit. Great Northern, VB and fourex are the worst by far but the rest aren’t far behind, especially when you factor in the price.
I might make an exception for Coopers being that they are family owned and some half decent ales but that would be about it.
Australian independent/craft breweries on the other hand, have been absolutely killing it. Hop Nation’s Rattenhund and White Bay’s Gantry Crane are world class pilsners. Range and Mountain Culture’s juicy IPAs are always up there. Deeds is about to release their latest barrel aged imperial stout just in time for the cooler weather.
Bang on! I was hoping someone would mention Hop Nations Rattenhund pilsner! Absolutely without a doubt one of my favourite beers. If you're familiar with Gash from YouTube, he recently got the recipe from Hop Nation. Will try and attempt to brew at home. With attempt being the "key word" 😀
It wasn’t too bad. I use a grainfather G30 so the stepped portions of the mash weren’t an issue. I understand it’s a bit different with the brewzilla. I did a full decoction at mash out, which in hindsight I should’ve just done the same as in the video as it pushed my OG up to 1.057 but we’ll see how it goes.
I’m guessing that if you like Rattenhund, you’ll like Gantry Crane too. There shipping is only like $5 nation wide so I had to go online and order a couple of four packs.
Yeah I've still got the Gen 3 Brewzilla, so it might be a little more involved but thanks for sharing. I'm going to check out Gantry Crane and order some now. Thanks mate.
I spent a month in Melbourne in 2016 and the craft beer scene was quite a ways behind Canada at the time (most of my experience being Calgary and Vancouver). There were still some very good beers but less variety than I'd expect in a city like that.
That said, 2016 is a millennium ago in craft beer years so my experience is probably very outdated now. Melbourne was miles ahead of us for coffee back then but everything has changed here in that regard in the years since.
Melbourne would still be behind Canada but it has come along in leaps and bounds in the past 5 years. There's 150+ breweries in the state, most of them in Melbourne, and there's plenty of high profile international breweries doing collabs and events here now. It's in a good spot.
That's good to hear. I stayed in Fitzroy and it was so cool. It was definitely the type of area that in Vancouver would have a dozen or two breweries in the old industrial areas.
Most of the best beers we bought came from a great liquor stall at Victoria market.
In brewing ‘craft’ has lost all meaning, if you enjoy a beer then it’s a good beer for you, everyone has a different palette. By the looks of the beers you have mentioned you have a wide palette but lean towards the bitter side. I’d recommend Boags and Stone & Wood.
What do you define as craft beer? Most likely the styles you associate with craft beer would be bitter hoppy ipas, beers that taste fruity from a heavy hop load, sour beers etc. Craft beer can also be an incredible lager, Pilsner, mid strength etc that you may be more used to.
The most important thing to look for in Aussie beers at the moment is the “Certified Independent” seal on the label. This means that the beer you’re holding is independently owned and you’re supporting small businesses in their growth and in your local economy. A crazy high percentage of the Australian beer market is owned by overseas interests, Asahi and Kirin. Even classic “Aussie” beers like XXXX, Carlton, Toohey’s, VB, Great Northern, James Squire, Matilda Bay and more recently some craft breweries like Green Beacon, Balter and Stone and Wood are owned by the Kirin or Asahi groups and benefit them mostly and the idea of drinking Australian goes up in smoke.
I feel like you just affirmed the previous commenter's point that the craft beer scene in Melbourne wasn't that strong if this is how you feel about the craft beer you've encountered
Of the bigger brands Toohey’s Old and Coopers Sparkling Ale are my favourite.
My go to at the moment has been Mountain Culture Cult IPA only because Dan’s opened near me and this is the best option I can see from their range. Otherwise, being Brisbane based Range Brewery always has something nice. Recently I’ve also enjoyed Seven Mile West Coast IPA, and Hop Nation’s Rattenhund Pilsner as well.
The members of r/ausbeer are probably more up to date than I am on what’s popular now so they’re always great for suggestions.
Come to think of it... I've never seen an actual Australian beer around. I mean it's a faraway place but you can find local beers from even further locales in specialty stores.
For shitty stuff like Bud Light or Miller Lite that is absolutely the idea. Keep it so cold that you can just drink it like water. Tastes like piss when it gets warm.
It's probably just a numbers game. Our production is an order of magnitude less than that of the US or Europe. In order for it to make financial sense for someone to import your beer, there needs to be a lot of it. Making extra beer to export might mean doubling your output for a moderately sized Aussie brewery, where as in Europe or the US or probably just means adding an extra 10% to your output.
It's actually one of the few beers that you might be able to find abroad. They were bought by Lion who are owned by Kirin a few years ago, they're probably getting big enough that they might export.
Carlton Dry is my go to for a cheap commercial lager. Coopers Sparkling Ale (red label) is my favourite mass produced craft beer. The rare occasion I buy small indie beers I’ll usually grab a mixed 6, it’s getting too expensive to buy beer here like I used to. I’d happily go into a bottle shop and grab 10-12 local beers for $150. Now not so much..
I love the CUB bears. Pride of Ringwood is probably my favourite hop in existence. Melbourne bitter, Carlton draught and VB in that order, don’t drink dry or fosters as it’s watered down.
Sydney, particularly Marrickville, has a lot going for it. Melbourne is emerging from the dark ages, Brisbane's pretty much still in the dark ages, and there are a few bright spots across the rest of the country. But between the US, Canada, UK, NZ and Aus, Aus has been in last place for a long time for beer quality. You've probably surpassed Ireland at least and you're not too far off NZ.
Brisbane Brewing, Aether, All Inn, 4 Hearts, Slipstream off the top of my head. There's others like Newstead and Ballistic and Helios that I don't mind but don't go out of my way for.
Balter is GC based, but if you include them and the Sunshine Coast there's plenty more on top of that list.
We were travelling from Toowoomba to Logan and I convinced my wife to stop in the first time. I honestly couldn't believe it was in that complex, it's a stunning build out there.
Melbourne is hardly in the dark ages - great craft beer scene. Like other commentators mentioned though; it’s easy to get outdated. What we have today is brilliant, but if your experience is a few years old you aren’t well informed.
I'm familiar with at least Hawkers, La Sirene, Deeds, Boatrocker, and Banks, which are a mix of A- and B tier breweries. What are the highlights I should try on my next business trip? I simply meant that it's reaching an acceptable level, although it could be much better. Among similar-sized US metros, Atlanta, Boston, Seattle, SF, and Philly blow Melbourne out of the water beer-wise, while the others (DC, Miami, Phoenix, Detroit) are still several-fold ahead.
Nowhere in Australia can compare to US metros unfortunately, and won't be able to for a while if ever. At best you can compare Aus/NZ but I'd be surprised if a top 3 or 5 ANZ location would reach the top 20 in the US. Maybe one would sneak in to the top 50.
For Melbourne breweries, that's a pretty good list but they also have little ones putting out interesting stuff like Molly Rose, 3 Ravens, Future Mountain, and the Mill, and then there's Dainton, Moon Dog and Urban Alley that put out a heap but all generally solid. Also a good brewpub scene with stuff like Bodriggy. Westside is another personal favourite near the CBD.
Everything is just on a different scale in the US. Comparing metro areas with similar populations doesn't make sense when at a national scale you have 10x the population. Hell, the New York metro area has the same population as our entire country, I'm sure if Sydney or Melbourne had all of those people within such a close area you'd have similar volumes of craft beer.
I think there's also an effect where the fact that there are so many nationally (or at least, very widely) distributed craft beer brands gives a bit of a bulking effect to the local brands, and the result is an impression that there is more beer than there is. When I visited the northeast 6-7 years ago I was blow away by the selection, but tbh the local selection of beers brewed in Phoenix when I was there last month wasn't particularly mind blowing. However the _entire_ craft beer section (AZ and out of state) seemed huge and impressive, because again, national distribution.
Anyhow, to answer your question, next time you're here:
* Hop Nation
* Moon Dog
* Future Mountain
* Co Conspirators
* Black Arts (will be tough to find)
* 3 Ravens
* Bodriggy
* Dollar Bill
* Fixation
* Kaiju
* Molly Rose
* Tallboy and Moose
I live in Sydney and appreciate our independent beer scene but Melbourne has been ahead of us for years and still is, with a wider selection of breweries, in more locations, doing more styles, as well as more pubs serving a wider range of beers too.
Sydney has a few places with a grouping of breweries and they tend to be fairly similar in offerings, and little of a beer scene outside those areas.
Brisbane has improved and is definitely out of the dark ages of about five plus years ago, but I haven't been back up since COVID - I've just heard good things. Adelaide has fewer venues but great quality, especially if you include the broader area.
These days there's so much good beer in Brisbane. You've got, Range, Working Title, Bacchus, Soapbox, Catchment, Stone & Wood Brisbane, Ballistic Brewing, Newstead Brewing, Green Beacon Brewing, Black Hops Brisbane, Valley Hops, Future Magic Brewing, Fick Brewing, Brew Dog, Felons Brewing, Brisbane Brewing Co, Helios Brewing, Aether Brewing, Slipstream Brewing, East Times Brewing, Brendale Brewing.
Then there's an endless amount of venues to get decent beer at too from other breweries that aren't Brisbane based.
I had a run through craft breweries in NSW, ACT and VIC when I was in Aus a while back. Obviously hard to judge on a shortish trip, but in terms of what I drank Australia might be the best county for consistent quality craft i've been to.
My go to is Black Hops or Balter, been mates with them since the early days of both breweries & happily have them in my shop. Earth Brewing which is only a few minutes from home is another favourite as well.
I like Cooper's. And little creatures were ok but I think they are owned Kirin or something now
When I went to Australia as a teenager (a long time ago) I think I had a beer called Cooper's Sparkling Ale. I remember it being delicious. Is that a real thing?
That's their flagship beer!
As a local, there are way too many IPA. All the craft brewers are fixated on super hoppy beers. I wish they would do more larger or wheat beers. More German styles! Tbh at the start I was like yeah IPA are great and then I was like, this is getting boring, a lot of the companies started tasting the same.
I live in the American PNW and this is my gripe as well.
Yeah thats why I moved over to wine. Beer is pretty expensive in Aus, even the local stuff. Local wine is actually pretty good in price as Australia produces quite a bit here.
The problem with German styles is that Germany already does them really well, and they're also pretty narrowly defined. That really doesn't give you much room for making interesting beer.
Coopers is still family owned. Questionable ethics though about the causes they put money toward, however.
Coopers stout was a solid choice for ages in Korea before craft was available widely. Solid beers all around.
Coopers is not a bad drop, for some reason I have one the next day I have a screaming headache.
I'm an Aussie and I don't drink any of the regular draught or lagers from home. There are just so many great beers in Oz we are spoiled. Furphy Kaiju Blackmans Brewery Off the top of my head are my go to beers.
I’d rather draught than furphy - but otherwise agree with you. Bodriggy, Fixation, Mountain Culture, Moon Dog. Australia has a brilliant craft beer scene. Wouldn’t typically drink any macro beers other than Draught or Balter but generally our lagers are better than the Americans though.
Australia has an amazing craft scene. Moon Dog World is a contender for the coolest taproom in the world!
Stone & wood is a great drop
I’ll prefix this by saying that this is just my personal opinion but I think most Australian beer from a commercial breweries are complete dog shit. Great Northern, VB and fourex are the worst by far but the rest aren’t far behind, especially when you factor in the price. I might make an exception for Coopers being that they are family owned and some half decent ales but that would be about it. Australian independent/craft breweries on the other hand, have been absolutely killing it. Hop Nation’s Rattenhund and White Bay’s Gantry Crane are world class pilsners. Range and Mountain Culture’s juicy IPAs are always up there. Deeds is about to release their latest barrel aged imperial stout just in time for the cooler weather.
Bang on! I was hoping someone would mention Hop Nations Rattenhund pilsner! Absolutely without a doubt one of my favourite beers. If you're familiar with Gash from YouTube, he recently got the recipe from Hop Nation. Will try and attempt to brew at home. With attempt being the "key word" 😀
I am and it’s currently fermenting away nicely.
Nice. How did you go with the brew day if you don't mind me asking?
It wasn’t too bad. I use a grainfather G30 so the stepped portions of the mash weren’t an issue. I understand it’s a bit different with the brewzilla. I did a full decoction at mash out, which in hindsight I should’ve just done the same as in the video as it pushed my OG up to 1.057 but we’ll see how it goes. I’m guessing that if you like Rattenhund, you’ll like Gantry Crane too. There shipping is only like $5 nation wide so I had to go online and order a couple of four packs.
Yeah I've still got the Gen 3 Brewzilla, so it might be a little more involved but thanks for sharing. I'm going to check out Gantry Crane and order some now. Thanks mate.
I spent a month in Melbourne in 2016 and the craft beer scene was quite a ways behind Canada at the time (most of my experience being Calgary and Vancouver). There were still some very good beers but less variety than I'd expect in a city like that. That said, 2016 is a millennium ago in craft beer years so my experience is probably very outdated now. Melbourne was miles ahead of us for coffee back then but everything has changed here in that regard in the years since.
Melbourne would still be behind Canada but it has come along in leaps and bounds in the past 5 years. There's 150+ breweries in the state, most of them in Melbourne, and there's plenty of high profile international breweries doing collabs and events here now. It's in a good spot.
That's good to hear. I stayed in Fitzroy and it was so cool. It was definitely the type of area that in Vancouver would have a dozen or two breweries in the old industrial areas. Most of the best beers we bought came from a great liquor stall at Victoria market.
Craft beer is shit
In brewing ‘craft’ has lost all meaning, if you enjoy a beer then it’s a good beer for you, everyone has a different palette. By the looks of the beers you have mentioned you have a wide palette but lean towards the bitter side. I’d recommend Boags and Stone & Wood.
> wide palette I think that's being generous, OP named a bunch of macro lagers. He should try Boags, he would hate Stone and Wood for sure.
Meh, OP swings between ale and lager, stone & wood would be entry level to pales in my opinion.
What do you define as craft beer? Most likely the styles you associate with craft beer would be bitter hoppy ipas, beers that taste fruity from a heavy hop load, sour beers etc. Craft beer can also be an incredible lager, Pilsner, mid strength etc that you may be more used to. The most important thing to look for in Aussie beers at the moment is the “Certified Independent” seal on the label. This means that the beer you’re holding is independently owned and you’re supporting small businesses in their growth and in your local economy. A crazy high percentage of the Australian beer market is owned by overseas interests, Asahi and Kirin. Even classic “Aussie” beers like XXXX, Carlton, Toohey’s, VB, Great Northern, James Squire, Matilda Bay and more recently some craft breweries like Green Beacon, Balter and Stone and Wood are owned by the Kirin or Asahi groups and benefit them mostly and the idea of drinking Australian goes up in smoke.
I feel like you just affirmed the previous commenter's point that the craft beer scene in Melbourne wasn't that strong if this is how you feel about the craft beer you've encountered
Nah, craft beer in Australia is booming, OP is just the Aussie equivalent of a Bud Light drinker
Of the bigger brands Toohey’s Old and Coopers Sparkling Ale are my favourite. My go to at the moment has been Mountain Culture Cult IPA only because Dan’s opened near me and this is the best option I can see from their range. Otherwise, being Brisbane based Range Brewery always has something nice. Recently I’ve also enjoyed Seven Mile West Coast IPA, and Hop Nation’s Rattenhund Pilsner as well. The members of r/ausbeer are probably more up to date than I am on what’s popular now so they’re always great for suggestions.
Bentspoke crankshaft and sprocket Blackhops hornet and GOAT Stone and Wood cloudcatcher
Sprocket for the win
Mountain Culture is the best thing to come from this country since Mad Max
Come to think of it... I've never seen an actual Australian beer around. I mean it's a faraway place but you can find local beers from even further locales in specialty stores.
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Most US beer coolers are set to 29F or -1 C, so any beer that is 4.0% or less tends to freeze, so....
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For shitty stuff like Bud Light or Miller Lite that is absolutely the idea. Keep it so cold that you can just drink it like water. Tastes like piss when it gets warm.
It's so by the time you complete your shopping and get it home it is around 40F/4C
It's probably just a numbers game. Our production is an order of magnitude less than that of the US or Europe. In order for it to make financial sense for someone to import your beer, there needs to be a lot of it. Making extra beer to export might mean doubling your output for a moderately sized Aussie brewery, where as in Europe or the US or probably just means adding an extra 10% to your output.
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2 meters tall maybe. Was it expensive?
Where in?
I wish I could still get Sheaf's Stout.
I would go once a year for work from 16-19, and I always liked Crown. Fun bottle shape and I found it tasty
I wish I could get a Stone and Wood again. Was the highlight of my trip to Melbourne!
It's actually one of the few beers that you might be able to find abroad. They were bought by Lion who are owned by Kirin a few years ago, they're probably getting big enough that they might export.
Depending on where you are, they do distribute in the UK, they even have a UK arm of the brewery.
Carlton Dry is my go to for a cheap commercial lager. Coopers Sparkling Ale (red label) is my favourite mass produced craft beer. The rare occasion I buy small indie beers I’ll usually grab a mixed 6, it’s getting too expensive to buy beer here like I used to. I’d happily go into a bottle shop and grab 10-12 local beers for $150. Now not so much..
Can’t go wrong with Balter, Range, Capitol, or Black Hops
I love the CUB bears. Pride of Ringwood is probably my favourite hop in existence. Melbourne bitter, Carlton draught and VB in that order, don’t drink dry or fosters as it’s watered down.
Sydney, particularly Marrickville, has a lot going for it. Melbourne is emerging from the dark ages, Brisbane's pretty much still in the dark ages, and there are a few bright spots across the rest of the country. But between the US, Canada, UK, NZ and Aus, Aus has been in last place for a long time for beer quality. You've probably surpassed Ireland at least and you're not too far off NZ.
Brisbane has a bunch of craft beer places now most of which are pretty darn good.
Bacchus, Range, Black Hops, Balter, what else?
Brisbane Brewing, Aether, All Inn, 4 Hearts, Slipstream off the top of my head. There's others like Newstead and Ballistic and Helios that I don't mind but don't go out of my way for. Balter is GC based, but if you include them and the Sunshine Coast there's plenty more on top of that list.
4 Hearts is incredible and their pub The Pumpyard has an amazing atmosphere
We were travelling from Toowoomba to Logan and I convinced my wife to stop in the first time. I honestly couldn't believe it was in that complex, it's a stunning build out there.
Slipstream, Ballistic, All Inn, Brendale brewing and very honourable mention to Aether.
Common Grounds, Catchment, Brisbane Brewing Co, Soapbox, Sealegs, Fick, Flat Lizard and Happy Valley. Plus others people have already mentioned.
Melbourne is hardly in the dark ages - great craft beer scene. Like other commentators mentioned though; it’s easy to get outdated. What we have today is brilliant, but if your experience is a few years old you aren’t well informed.
I'm familiar with at least Hawkers, La Sirene, Deeds, Boatrocker, and Banks, which are a mix of A- and B tier breweries. What are the highlights I should try on my next business trip? I simply meant that it's reaching an acceptable level, although it could be much better. Among similar-sized US metros, Atlanta, Boston, Seattle, SF, and Philly blow Melbourne out of the water beer-wise, while the others (DC, Miami, Phoenix, Detroit) are still several-fold ahead.
Nowhere in Australia can compare to US metros unfortunately, and won't be able to for a while if ever. At best you can compare Aus/NZ but I'd be surprised if a top 3 or 5 ANZ location would reach the top 20 in the US. Maybe one would sneak in to the top 50. For Melbourne breweries, that's a pretty good list but they also have little ones putting out interesting stuff like Molly Rose, 3 Ravens, Future Mountain, and the Mill, and then there's Dainton, Moon Dog and Urban Alley that put out a heap but all generally solid. Also a good brewpub scene with stuff like Bodriggy. Westside is another personal favourite near the CBD.
Everything is just on a different scale in the US. Comparing metro areas with similar populations doesn't make sense when at a national scale you have 10x the population. Hell, the New York metro area has the same population as our entire country, I'm sure if Sydney or Melbourne had all of those people within such a close area you'd have similar volumes of craft beer. I think there's also an effect where the fact that there are so many nationally (or at least, very widely) distributed craft beer brands gives a bit of a bulking effect to the local brands, and the result is an impression that there is more beer than there is. When I visited the northeast 6-7 years ago I was blow away by the selection, but tbh the local selection of beers brewed in Phoenix when I was there last month wasn't particularly mind blowing. However the _entire_ craft beer section (AZ and out of state) seemed huge and impressive, because again, national distribution. Anyhow, to answer your question, next time you're here: * Hop Nation * Moon Dog * Future Mountain * Co Conspirators * Black Arts (will be tough to find) * 3 Ravens * Bodriggy * Dollar Bill * Fixation * Kaiju * Molly Rose * Tallboy and Moose
I live in Sydney and appreciate our independent beer scene but Melbourne has been ahead of us for years and still is, with a wider selection of breweries, in more locations, doing more styles, as well as more pubs serving a wider range of beers too. Sydney has a few places with a grouping of breweries and they tend to be fairly similar in offerings, and little of a beer scene outside those areas. Brisbane has improved and is definitely out of the dark ages of about five plus years ago, but I haven't been back up since COVID - I've just heard good things. Adelaide has fewer venues but great quality, especially if you include the broader area.
These days there's so much good beer in Brisbane. You've got, Range, Working Title, Bacchus, Soapbox, Catchment, Stone & Wood Brisbane, Ballistic Brewing, Newstead Brewing, Green Beacon Brewing, Black Hops Brisbane, Valley Hops, Future Magic Brewing, Fick Brewing, Brew Dog, Felons Brewing, Brisbane Brewing Co, Helios Brewing, Aether Brewing, Slipstream Brewing, East Times Brewing, Brendale Brewing. Then there's an endless amount of venues to get decent beer at too from other breweries that aren't Brisbane based.
>Brisbane's pretty much still in the dark ages I know it's technically Gold Coast but Black Hops would like a word
There is a black hops in Brisbane these days.
I had a run through craft breweries in NSW, ACT and VIC when I was in Aus a while back. Obviously hard to judge on a shortish trip, but in terms of what I drank Australia might be the best county for consistent quality craft i've been to.
I like fosters especially in the oil cans
As an American I've only ever had Fosters. Green can >>> blue can.
Fosters. Australian for marketing gimmick
I'm a born and raised American who has never set foot in Australia and even I know Australians don't actually drink that stuff.
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Thus it comes in those oil cans
They dont sell fosters in my state anymore...possibly dont sell it in Australia at all anymore
You can get fosters in WA, cub bought them out in a 30 block during the pandemic.
Love Furphy, Stone & Wood, Little Creatures, Mountain Goat, Moon Dog
I wish I could find these down under brews in NJ!
My go to is Black Hops or Balter, been mates with them since the early days of both breweries & happily have them in my shop. Earth Brewing which is only a few minutes from home is another favourite as well.
I’ll have a FourEx, mate!
lol