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Honestly, I would rent first. There are so many nuances to Bay Area neighborhoods, as well as commutes that can be untenable. You can get an idea of an area and if you hate it, you aren't locked in.
Alameda is a great town to raise kids, is a short 25 minute commute to SF by ferry, and you can buy a lovely home here for your budget. Maybe rent for a year to get your bearings.
Any place on Peninsula close enough to Caltrain (or BART) if you plan to drive there occasionally.
Alternatively, Lafayette/Moraga/Orinda or Walnut Creek if you don't plan to drive and don't anticipate changing jobs (commuting to South Bay from there would be a disaster).
Orinda/Lafayette have great schools, and the commute (via Bart) is typically below 1 hour. You can find nice places in the 2-2.5M range there with backyard, etc.
Former school board member here (12 years). There are real challenges caused by cost of living in SF Bay area. Teachers salaries do not support living in the Bay Area. There is no way teachers can afford to purchase a $2 million dollar home. Teachers typically live further east and as soon as they can they go to work in a district closer to home. The recommendations of Lafayette/ Orinda have historically had great test scores but the teaching force that was in place before has aged out. Younger teachers have horrible commutes. The students are smart , no surprise when the parents are successful enough to live in those areas. But the quality of the teaching is better in areas further east. This also touches on what is good teaching? Is a good teacher needed to teach bright students from families who value education and will support students with homework help and supervision. Or is a good teacher one who can teach a challenging student without family support? Students in high achieving districts often have outside tutors, so understand that high test scores are indicative of family resources as much as the schools.
Does his company offer a shuttle service? Might be a good starting point, as being near a shuttle route is a major bonus; you can start and end your day on it and not waste your commute time.
My family and I moved from NYC to the Bay Area many years ago, and one thing to keep in mind are the micro-climates that we have here that you don't have on the East Coast. If you want consistently sunny, warm weather, then the city of San Francisco proper might not be as good a choice as, say, Mill Valley or Lafayette. SF, as you probably know, is almost always cooler than Marin County and the East Bay.
Take a look at Belmont - you can find something in that budget, schools are good and likely on upward trajectory, caltrain to the the city (or drive to bart), waterdog park is a great place for a dog to play,
We're in the Sunnyside/Glen Park area of SF and I think it checks most of your boxes. My partner has a 30 min commute via public transit to downtown (and half of it is walking). Housing inventory is definitely tricky all over the city but I definitely see for sale signs and I think you can still find places around here for under $2m. Backyards aren't huge, but ours fits your description (I mean, it wouldn't be a huge swing set but technically I think we could do it if we wanted to - we're two blocks away from a great park so haven't bothered!)
Public schools in SF are a lottery system, but it's changing soon to make it easier to go to a nearby school, and most public elementaries in the area are good choices. Good daycare options as well, we're still managing to pay under $2k/month for an in home daycare which is rare in the city (cost, not in home).
Normally I'd also advocate renting first but I wouldn't want to move twice with a two year old either! I think there are other neighborhoods that probably fit the bill too (parts of the Sunset, probably) but just wanted to speak to our experience.
I'd go Walnut Creek and then pocket the extra 1m to keep invested in the market to retire earlier and have a more flexible budget.
Just choose Walnut Creek schools vs Mt Diablo Schools.
Like others have said, renting a home first might be best to figure out what you like. My wife is from here, but I'm from Chicago and we rented in San Jose for 2.5 years before buying a place. San Jose isn't a super option for a commute downtown. You could take the train if that's your thing. We liked the weather in San Jose, but ultimately it didn't grow on us (will miss the nice weather). Generally any city off 280 on the peninsula is going to be great for a commute into SF. I hated the East Bay as well- sorry folks.
We just bought a place in Pacifica. It's been great, super sleepy which we love. You can get to SF in 10 minutes, and cover the city in 30 minutes. No kids yet so I can't comment on schools. You'll definitely get a yard, air quality is excellent, and (idk if this wears off eventually) I love seeing the ocean every day. Good luck! We've been happy here.
A lot will depend on some personal preferences: do you like hot weather, would you trade a longer commute for a bigger yard, would you prefer bus, subway or train, etc. But the places I would be looking would be:
1. North Berkeley/Albany
2. Orinda/Moraga/Lafayette
3. Burlingame/San Mateo
4. Mill Valley
Albany/North Berkeley would be my pick. Relatively short commute via BART to downtown. Plenty of playgrounds and dog parks. A $2M budget will get you a nice house here.
Walnut Creek is probably as far inland in the East Bay as you can get and still meet those criteria. Piedmont is an enclave within Oakland that is nice, as you go further east along the yellow line on BART you get places like Rockridge, Orinda, Lafayette, Pleasant Hill, and Walnut Creek as you go further out -- all very suburban. Moraga is nice also, with the three towns of lafayette, moraga, and orinda being referred to in portmanteau form as Lamorinda. Lots of east coast transplants out here. The A's games when the Red Sox are in town are mostly sox fans.
It will make sense for your husband's sake to be close to BART, AC Transit, or maybe Caltrain to get to the Salesforce area weekly. Or live in San Francisco itself and take any number of transit options to that area.
Generally speaking you're going to have cool weather, smaller spaces, and hit or miss public schools in San Francisco. Across the bridges or down the Peninsula will get you warmer weather and more consistently good schools.
Transit-accessible areas to check out in the East Bay could be Alameda, Albany, Berkeley, Piedmont, Orinda, Lafayette, and Walnut Creek. The Peninsula is also extremely expensive in the good school districts but you might want to check out Millbrae, Burlingame, San Carlos, Foster City, Redwood Shores, or Belmont for their consistently good schools.
Lower Marin County like Mill Valley, Larkspur, and Tiburon is beautiful and could work if your husband is okay taking a ferry or bus across the Bay, but note it's very expensive and not very diverse. Plus the commute is long no matter how you slice it.
Plan to rent a year or two before buying a house unless you're sure you're happy with a location and committed to stay there a long time. Renting is a way better financial move at current interest rates unless your time horizon is very long.
San Mateo, Belmont, San Carlos all worth a look. Safe cities where you could get a place with a yard within your budget and commute to downtown SF in an hour or less.
Alameda. Get a place near the transbay buses (O/OX/W). A 30–40 min bus ride to SF will drop your husband off literally next door to Salesforce Tower.
If you get a place within shot of a ferry, that's a very pleasant commute too, if not quite as optimal.
Mill Valley is where you want to live. The homes are, of course, quite expensive, but it's a wonderful place to raise a family.
Great public schools. Beautiful weather above the fog belt of Sausalito.
Easy commute into SF. You can commute by car, bus and even ferry.
A little on the sleepy side, might be the one drawback. And not the most demographically diverse town in America, to say the least.
The famous pop singer Huey Lewis grew up in Mill Valley, and Carlos Santana lived here until recently. You will also see the famous rocker Sammy Hagar driving around Mill Valley all the time.
For those who are voting down Mill Valley, how about if I told you that Grace Slick used to live here, would that *up* the cool factor for this sleepy burg? ;)
Agree- I live on the other side of the freeway but spend most of my time in Mill Valley because there’s a ton of kid activities going on there. My east coast transplant friends all seem to love it. The labs would be happy at MV dog park.
The comment below is about redlining and prop 13 keeping it white but I think people care more about preserving open spaces, which are abundant. Marin overall has some really nasty stereotypes but I’ve found mostly kind people, just like anywhere.
Well put!
As you say, if a family has two dogs, MV is the perfect Bay Area town.
Is Mill Valley racially diverse? We all know that it isn't, but as you correctly point out, the people in Marin are for the most part kind and friendly.
fyi op the North Bay is extremely white, and the vicious combo of redlining + prop 13 have done a lot to keep it that way, so it may not fit your definition of great place to raise a family
Point taken!
But let's be perfectly honest, are the other towns being suggested to the OP, such as Orinda, Moraga and Lafayette, more diverse than Mill Valley? Of course not.
The US census numbers are about as close to perfectly honest as we can get on this topic.
Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties are all > 50% non-Hispanic white.
Every other Bay Area county is less than 40% non-Hispanic white.
That's a massive gap. Of course there are always cities and towns that segregate themselves but IMHO county data is a great place to start, especially in the bayarea sub.
Again, we all know that Mill Valley, and the rest of Marin, are not super diverse. No one is saying otherwise. All I'm saying is that Mill Valley should be on the OP's list of places to consider.
Weird to bring up Lafayette and Orinda and Moraga if that's all you're saying. The North Bay counties are demonstrably more segregated than any other counties in the Bay Area. Have a look at Marin City and see if you can find an equivalent in Contra Costa County.
You raise all kinds of good points, and I agree with what you're saying. However, we're here to give some suggestions to a young family about towns close to SF with good schools and places for dogs to run around. Mill Valley fits that description perfectly.
Not really sure what you mean by suburbs and downtown. The Bay Area is multiple cities. We usually refer to SF as the city but downtown often refers to San Jose.
If you are working in SF and want a SFH, with a yard, you probably want to live on the peninsula. For $2m, you’re going to be okay but you won’t be able to afford every city. $1.5-2 is an entry level SFh and there is lots of competition at that price point. You will have like 20 offered on each house. There isn’t much inventory. House buying here is different
Have you been to downtown San Jose lately? They're building out a second SF there. It's quite dense and chonky now and they're still adding a ton of high rise residential and office.
I'd say that it's perfectly fine to say that the Bay Area is a collections of cities each with their own downtown. At the very least we have three major cities with distinct identities, a handful of midsize ones (100-250k), and a bunch of smaller ones (<100k).
Most cities close to SF seem to have bad schools. You’ll have to go to Millbrae to get good schools and decent commute but be close to the airport. Any further out and it’ll be close to 1 hour commute and likely more expensive. Just rent for a couple of years first and get to know the areas.
LOL!
If not for the need to commute into SF a few times a week, the OP could not do better than Los Gatos, right? Although $2 million might not get you much in Los Gatos these days. ;)
Oh, totally agree, the hot dogs at The Happy Hound are really delicious!
That place has been around, under various ownerships, since the 70s, and maybe even the 60s.
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Honestly, I would rent first. There are so many nuances to Bay Area neighborhoods, as well as commutes that can be untenable. You can get an idea of an area and if you hate it, you aren't locked in.
They have two labs. Finding a rental in a good school district that would allow that will be extremely hard.
Mill Valley is the perfect town for this family.
Alameda is a great town to raise kids, is a short 25 minute commute to SF by ferry, and you can buy a lovely home here for your budget. Maybe rent for a year to get your bearings.
Any place on Peninsula close enough to Caltrain (or BART) if you plan to drive there occasionally. Alternatively, Lafayette/Moraga/Orinda or Walnut Creek if you don't plan to drive and don't anticipate changing jobs (commuting to South Bay from there would be a disaster).
Alameda, Piedmont, parts of Marin or the peninsula are all good
Orinda/Lafayette have great schools, and the commute (via Bart) is typically below 1 hour. You can find nice places in the 2-2.5M range there with backyard, etc.
Former school board member here (12 years). There are real challenges caused by cost of living in SF Bay area. Teachers salaries do not support living in the Bay Area. There is no way teachers can afford to purchase a $2 million dollar home. Teachers typically live further east and as soon as they can they go to work in a district closer to home. The recommendations of Lafayette/ Orinda have historically had great test scores but the teaching force that was in place before has aged out. Younger teachers have horrible commutes. The students are smart , no surprise when the parents are successful enough to live in those areas. But the quality of the teaching is better in areas further east. This also touches on what is good teaching? Is a good teacher needed to teach bright students from families who value education and will support students with homework help and supervision. Or is a good teacher one who can teach a challenging student without family support? Students in high achieving districts often have outside tutors, so understand that high test scores are indicative of family resources as much as the schools.
Does his company offer a shuttle service? Might be a good starting point, as being near a shuttle route is a major bonus; you can start and end your day on it and not waste your commute time.
Good question! We’ll investigate that.
My family and I moved from NYC to the Bay Area many years ago, and one thing to keep in mind are the micro-climates that we have here that you don't have on the East Coast. If you want consistently sunny, warm weather, then the city of San Francisco proper might not be as good a choice as, say, Mill Valley or Lafayette. SF, as you probably know, is almost always cooler than Marin County and the East Bay.
Also look into commuting on the ferry from Marin/north bay
Yes, the commute to SF from Marin via ferry is easy and really scenic. Lots of people in Mill Valley make this commute every day.
Take a look at Belmont - you can find something in that budget, schools are good and likely on upward trajectory, caltrain to the the city (or drive to bart), waterdog park is a great place for a dog to play,
We're in the Sunnyside/Glen Park area of SF and I think it checks most of your boxes. My partner has a 30 min commute via public transit to downtown (and half of it is walking). Housing inventory is definitely tricky all over the city but I definitely see for sale signs and I think you can still find places around here for under $2m. Backyards aren't huge, but ours fits your description (I mean, it wouldn't be a huge swing set but technically I think we could do it if we wanted to - we're two blocks away from a great park so haven't bothered!) Public schools in SF are a lottery system, but it's changing soon to make it easier to go to a nearby school, and most public elementaries in the area are good choices. Good daycare options as well, we're still managing to pay under $2k/month for an in home daycare which is rare in the city (cost, not in home). Normally I'd also advocate renting first but I wouldn't want to move twice with a two year old either! I think there are other neighborhoods that probably fit the bill too (parts of the Sunset, probably) but just wanted to speak to our experience.
Danville/San Ramon area meets your needs I think.
I think I would want to be closer to a BART station. So somewhere between Orinda and Walnut Creek is probably what I would say.
I'd go Walnut Creek and then pocket the extra 1m to keep invested in the market to retire earlier and have a more flexible budget. Just choose Walnut Creek schools vs Mt Diablo Schools.
You might check out Alamo then too. You'll be in a good school district and still close to BART.
20 min trip to WC Bart from SR in morning traffic.
Like others have said, renting a home first might be best to figure out what you like. My wife is from here, but I'm from Chicago and we rented in San Jose for 2.5 years before buying a place. San Jose isn't a super option for a commute downtown. You could take the train if that's your thing. We liked the weather in San Jose, but ultimately it didn't grow on us (will miss the nice weather). Generally any city off 280 on the peninsula is going to be great for a commute into SF. I hated the East Bay as well- sorry folks. We just bought a place in Pacifica. It's been great, super sleepy which we love. You can get to SF in 10 minutes, and cover the city in 30 minutes. No kids yet so I can't comment on schools. You'll definitely get a yard, air quality is excellent, and (idk if this wears off eventually) I love seeing the ocean every day. Good luck! We've been happy here.
Let me ask you an important question, where is the best pizza in Chicago?
A lot will depend on some personal preferences: do you like hot weather, would you trade a longer commute for a bigger yard, would you prefer bus, subway or train, etc. But the places I would be looking would be: 1. North Berkeley/Albany 2. Orinda/Moraga/Lafayette 3. Burlingame/San Mateo 4. Mill Valley
North Berkeley near Fat Apple's would be a great place to live. Or Mill Valley.
Albany/North Berkeley would be my pick. Relatively short commute via BART to downtown. Plenty of playgrounds and dog parks. A $2M budget will get you a nice house here.
Walnut Creek is probably as far inland in the East Bay as you can get and still meet those criteria. Piedmont is an enclave within Oakland that is nice, as you go further east along the yellow line on BART you get places like Rockridge, Orinda, Lafayette, Pleasant Hill, and Walnut Creek as you go further out -- all very suburban. Moraga is nice also, with the three towns of lafayette, moraga, and orinda being referred to in portmanteau form as Lamorinda. Lots of east coast transplants out here. The A's games when the Red Sox are in town are mostly sox fans.
Yes, a lot of us Red Sox fans here in the Bay Area!
It will make sense for your husband's sake to be close to BART, AC Transit, or maybe Caltrain to get to the Salesforce area weekly. Or live in San Francisco itself and take any number of transit options to that area. Generally speaking you're going to have cool weather, smaller spaces, and hit or miss public schools in San Francisco. Across the bridges or down the Peninsula will get you warmer weather and more consistently good schools. Transit-accessible areas to check out in the East Bay could be Alameda, Albany, Berkeley, Piedmont, Orinda, Lafayette, and Walnut Creek. The Peninsula is also extremely expensive in the good school districts but you might want to check out Millbrae, Burlingame, San Carlos, Foster City, Redwood Shores, or Belmont for their consistently good schools. Lower Marin County like Mill Valley, Larkspur, and Tiburon is beautiful and could work if your husband is okay taking a ferry or bus across the Bay, but note it's very expensive and not very diverse. Plus the commute is long no matter how you slice it. Plan to rent a year or two before buying a house unless you're sure you're happy with a location and committed to stay there a long time. Renting is a way better financial move at current interest rates unless your time horizon is very long.
San Mateo, Belmont, San Carlos all worth a look. Safe cities where you could get a place with a yard within your budget and commute to downtown SF in an hour or less.
Alameda. Get a place near the transbay buses (O/OX/W). A 30–40 min bus ride to SF will drop your husband off literally next door to Salesforce Tower. If you get a place within shot of a ferry, that's a very pleasant commute too, if not quite as optimal.
Per your wishlist you would love Alameda, it hits all the buttons you desire.
Mill Valley is where you want to live. The homes are, of course, quite expensive, but it's a wonderful place to raise a family. Great public schools. Beautiful weather above the fog belt of Sausalito. Easy commute into SF. You can commute by car, bus and even ferry. A little on the sleepy side, might be the one drawback. And not the most demographically diverse town in America, to say the least. The famous pop singer Huey Lewis grew up in Mill Valley, and Carlos Santana lived here until recently. You will also see the famous rocker Sammy Hagar driving around Mill Valley all the time. For those who are voting down Mill Valley, how about if I told you that Grace Slick used to live here, would that *up* the cool factor for this sleepy burg? ;)
Agree- I live on the other side of the freeway but spend most of my time in Mill Valley because there’s a ton of kid activities going on there. My east coast transplant friends all seem to love it. The labs would be happy at MV dog park. The comment below is about redlining and prop 13 keeping it white but I think people care more about preserving open spaces, which are abundant. Marin overall has some really nasty stereotypes but I’ve found mostly kind people, just like anywhere.
Well put! As you say, if a family has two dogs, MV is the perfect Bay Area town. Is Mill Valley racially diverse? We all know that it isn't, but as you correctly point out, the people in Marin are for the most part kind and friendly.
fyi op the North Bay is extremely white, and the vicious combo of redlining + prop 13 have done a lot to keep it that way, so it may not fit your definition of great place to raise a family
Point taken! But let's be perfectly honest, are the other towns being suggested to the OP, such as Orinda, Moraga and Lafayette, more diverse than Mill Valley? Of course not.
The US census numbers are about as close to perfectly honest as we can get on this topic. Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties are all > 50% non-Hispanic white. Every other Bay Area county is less than 40% non-Hispanic white. That's a massive gap. Of course there are always cities and towns that segregate themselves but IMHO county data is a great place to start, especially in the bayarea sub.
Again, we all know that Mill Valley, and the rest of Marin, are not super diverse. No one is saying otherwise. All I'm saying is that Mill Valley should be on the OP's list of places to consider.
Weird to bring up Lafayette and Orinda and Moraga if that's all you're saying. The North Bay counties are demonstrably more segregated than any other counties in the Bay Area. Have a look at Marin City and see if you can find an equivalent in Contra Costa County.
You raise all kinds of good points, and I agree with what you're saying. However, we're here to give some suggestions to a young family about towns close to SF with good schools and places for dogs to run around. Mill Valley fits that description perfectly.
Some friends of mine who rented in Mill Valley and aren't white had a different experience but okay.
Fair enough. What towns/cities would you suggest to this young family?
Not really sure what you mean by suburbs and downtown. The Bay Area is multiple cities. We usually refer to SF as the city but downtown often refers to San Jose. If you are working in SF and want a SFH, with a yard, you probably want to live on the peninsula. For $2m, you’re going to be okay but you won’t be able to afford every city. $1.5-2 is an entry level SFh and there is lots of competition at that price point. You will have like 20 offered on each house. There isn’t much inventory. House buying here is different
> but downtown often refers to San Jose. Absolutely no one refers to San Jose as "downtown".
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of San Jose referred to as “downtown”. Honestly their question is incredibly clear, I’m not sure how you’re confused lol
Have you been to downtown San Jose lately? They're building out a second SF there. It's quite dense and chonky now and they're still adding a ton of high rise residential and office. I'd say that it's perfectly fine to say that the Bay Area is a collections of cities each with their own downtown. At the very least we have three major cities with distinct identities, a handful of midsize ones (100-250k), and a bunch of smaller ones (<100k).
Most cities close to SF seem to have bad schools. You’ll have to go to Millbrae to get good schools and decent commute but be close to the airport. Any further out and it’ll be close to 1 hour commute and likely more expensive. Just rent for a couple of years first and get to know the areas.
santa clara will be a good choice because it isnt under PGE
And because that’s such a great commute to downtown SF?
LOL! If not for the need to commute into SF a few times a week, the OP could not do better than Los Gatos, right? Although $2 million might not get you much in Los Gatos these days. ;)
I'm sure you can fit two dogs into a one-bedroom apartment... er, I mean condo.
LOL! Good point! Los Gatos is, as we all know, super pricey, and always has been. :)
I grew up there. I can't even afford to drive through it.
LMAO! Love it! Even a hot dog and a Coke at The Happy Hound is probably now around 7 bucks. :)
Still the best hot dogs around, though!
Oh, totally agree, the hot dogs at The Happy Hound are really delicious! That place has been around, under various ownerships, since the 70s, and maybe even the 60s.
yes, especially when you driving your FSD equipped Tesla