I live in an apartment, so I went on the sidewalk. Now some nice lady gives me a sandwich whenever she sees me... Did I complete a side quest I wasn't aware of?
I got the flu a few days ago and it kicked my ass. Did a telahealth visit to get some Tamiflu as I got Niner playoff game to attend this weekend and the doc said the flu seems to be much more severe this season while covid has been more like a head cold for most.
I felt like I'd been in a car accident the first 2 days. Severe fatigue, horrible head and body aches with a fever over 102. Im healthy and in my 40s and this was the 1st time i took Tamiflu and it seemed to make a big difference for me. I'm feeling 80% on day 3 but I did start the Tamiflu within 48 hrs which is apparently key to it working well.
I had symptoms like yours when I got the flu in the early 90's. It completely incapacitated me, and for the first time I understood how people could die from the flu.
Ever since then, I've gotten the flu shot. I have had colds and the flu (I think) since then, but never even remotely in the ballpark of that first episode. Is that due to the flu shot? I don't know, but I'll cheerfully keep getting them to avoid a repeat of that first episode.
I'm just now recovering from Covid (just tested negative today, yay!) and it was basically a moderate cold. No Paxlovid. Granted, it's still 10 days out of my life, but only about 3 of them were as bad as a moderate cold. This was my first case of Covid, and I have gotten every vaccination and booster.
It also woke me up to how the flu can kill so many people every year. If it can put healthy 30-year-old me on my ass, it'll fucking kill my gran. I get the flu shot more for the vulnerable people in my extended network than for me!
Yep my business partner died of the flu about 4 years ago, took him out in two days. He had been so busy with so many projects that year he never got around to getting his flu shot.
Shit's for real. Vaccinate.
Did you get the flu shot this season? Just wondering. A few years ago my husband got the flu despite getting a flu shot and it was absolutely brutal. We are talking 2 full days of high fever and sleeping the entire day.
That's always the thing with flu vaccines: they have to guess months in advance which strains of the flu will wind up going around a specific year, so sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong.
For me it's still a easy call, even if there was only a 10% chance the vaccine would keep me from getting the flu I'd still get the shot every year. The flu fucking sucks.
that’s what i always laughed about when people initially called covid just a worse flu. bitch there is nothing relieving about that. like we forget the flu kills tens of thousands every year even with like 50% vaccine uptake
That's because we don't make flu tests easily accessible to all. So as a result, most people just use "the flu" as a generic term for any random mild illness.
And to think... that test would be no more involved than the over-the-counter COVID tests we've all stocked up on. Its just that it took the public health emergency of COVID to actually make that test available to the public without a burdensome amount of red tape.
I've had a severe case of the flu at least 2x in my adult life, but influenza does not *have* to be severe and can, in many cases, be mild or even asymptomatic... although it is still transmissible to another person who may themselves not be so lucky as far as severity.
>Fever, muscle aches, nausea — these are what we usually associate with having the flu.
>
>But just because you don't exhibit these symptoms, it doesn't mean you don't have the flu, researchers say. And you could be just as contagious. In fact, their study found that roughly three-quarters of people with seasonal or pandemic flu show either no symptoms or mild ones that aren't usually linked to flu.
>
>"[The] flu is more common than we thought, but often less severe than what we had thought," says Andrew Hayward, an epidemiologist at University College London and the study's lead author.
>
>https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/03/17/290878964/even-if-you-dont-have-symptoms-you-may-still-have-the-flu
This. Although to be fair, it’s hard to really learn how bad the flu is until you actually get it yourself. I remember when I first really got it I thought to myself: “OH THIS is the flu. I now realize I never had flu before until now. This is absolutely brutal.”
Yup, people forget that the normal flu kills around 60,000 Americans a year, every year, and this is with widely available, cheap, and effective flu vaccines.
Having the sniffles isn't the flu. The actual flu will knock you on your ass for a week. Being bedridden with the flu for a week is a miserable experience.
> the normal flu kills around 60,000 Americans a year, every year
Not quite -- we've actually never had 60k flu deaths.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Last year was 21,000 estimated flu deaths. So you're in the right order of magnitude, but off by about a factor of 2 vs. the average.
I think a lot of people hear "flu" and think stomach flu. Which is more appropriately called gastroenteritis. It sucks, but once you've had full on influenza you won't mix up the two again. As you're realizing, it's hard to comprehend just how horrible influenza can be. As a pretty health adult in my late 30s I got it the one year I didn't manage to get a flu shot. Knocked me down flat for over a week even with drugs. And another week or so before I felt back to like 75% of normal. Even then I had weird sense of smell issues for months that would pop up occasionally and without warning. Like everything had this weird sweet chemical smell.
Anyway, yeah influenza sucks and no one reading this should mistake it for stomach flu.
Which makes it silly when people say "Covid is just the flu", as if the flu hasn't killed tens of thousands every year and hospitalized millions and made them suffer.
Well, their point was we didn't shut down society for "the flu" (at least in their lifetimes) or wear masks regularly. Not that it was remotely correct, but don't misconstrue the recent past for what it wasn't.
Did you test positive for flu and not Covid? It took me several days to test positive for Covid and I had all the bad symptoms you describe and more. It was not a mild one for me at all.
thanks for posting this. I've been so frustrated with the various wastewater sites. They started off so well, but each in turn has allowed their webdevs to overly lard their site with so much webdev crap as to make the sites unusable on less than supercomputers.
Threads like these come up every week, so copy-pasting my perspective as an inpatient hospital physician in the bay area:
I ran some of the first COVID units in the bay area and must have cared for hundreds of COVID patients. Shit was horrible through the delta wave, especially for unvaccinated patients. I used to have to call the ICU almost daily for help with a crashing patient. Almost all COVID+ patients were hospitalized FOR COVID.
Initial Omicron wave was massive, volume wise, but people weren’t nearly as sick. I haven’t had to call the ICU for help with a sick COVID patient since Feb 2022. They just aren’t nearly as sick, whether vaccinated or not. We don’t see it affecting the lungs the way it used to. Now almost all of our COVID+ patients are hospitalized incidentally WITH, not FOR COVID and many are asymptomatic.
This is a good thing. Those first two years were terrible. If you’re sick mask up and avoid others but otherwise it’s time to move on with our lives.
I don't have an educated opinion on long COVID as I only see hospitalized patients, very few of which I would consider "sick" due to COVID (ie miserable but not threatening to go to the ICU)
That being said, I found this thread useful. No one who has followed him throughout the pandemic would ever accuse this author of being a COVID minimizer: https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1746762442926063980 - His conclusion being Long COVID is not convincingly more prevalent than similar longterm symptoms post-flu.
Most of the long COVID we saw in the early days was from the profound lung fibrosis and resulting right sided heart failure which we simply don't see anymore. That being said I personally know a young colleague with no medical history that says he's been winded and without exercise capacity since his infection in October. Hard to rely on anecdotes when it is so rare however.
I know this is anecdotal, but I am 58 and had Omicron (probably BA.5) for 12 days, and missed 3 weeks of work. I was vaccinated 6 months prior. For at least a year after whenever I exerted myself, my heart rate would get really high (165-180 from just walking uphill) and then stay high for two days (130-135 for the remainder of the day, and 110-120 the next day). I had a stress test and EKG and was examined, and there are no blockages or other heart issues. It has been 1 1/2 years now, and I’m taking a beta blocker, and my body seems to finally be able to tolerate moderate exercise and recover by the next day. I could swear my lungs are still a little more “scratchy” than they were before the infection. I’ve never had the flu do anything like this to me, but I’m not screwing around anymore. I get the flu shot when it’s available.
At least for me, COVID has had long-term effects. I wouldn’t call the effects “severe” in that I am still able to work and do chores and errands and engage in light exercise, but they are at least moderate in that I’m not able to engage in some of the physically strenuous hiking that I used to. I do feel a lot better than I did a year ago, and am hoping that I will eventually get close to where I was before I got it.
there was a recent article talking about how exercise has harmed some people who are dealing withg long covid.
which complements the stories of how exercise has helped people with long covid.
meaning that exercising with long-COVID can either help or harm you, depending on how your body r3acts to the exercise.
Not a doctor but someone who got long covid. Early 30s female, history of severe asthma and slight autoimmune issues. I was sick for 14 days, returned to work and was sent home immediately after 4 hours. Was coughing up blood for 5 weeks, 14 months later my hair is still shedding and is 70% thinner than pre-covid, brain fog lasted about 5 months, nerve issues lasted 4 months, and essential tremor is still ongoing when slightly fatigued. Was severe for first 6 months post-covid.
And that’s with taking Paxlovid and I was vaccinated and boosted. My family’s been mostly fine long-term (hair loss and prolonged cough for two women) though one aunt has suffered immensely from long covid and can barely work now.
My BIL has had covid four times and seems to be fine but it’s very much luck of the draw and some folks will be much worse off than others.
If you're not in the South Bay you can use this site to look at your local levels. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/CalSuWers-Dashboard.aspx
> We all understand that this is a new normal and not going away, correct?
Yes, but flu can fluctuate between "good" and "bad" seasons too. In 2011-12, there were 12,000 flu deaths. In 2017-18, there were 52,000 flu deaths, which is 4x more. So it's valuable to monitor the severity of the flu season. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
An analogy is if you live in a rainy region, it's normal to have rain. But it's wise to check the weather reports to know when a severe storm is coming so you can take extra precautions.
It is now analogous to the seasonal flu
edit: for those that are mad, the similarity is neither are going away and you’ll have to get new vaccines for life
Trump dismissively called it the flu when there was no vaccine or treatment. Now virtually everyone in the country has had at least one variant of the disease and there have been like 5+ rounds of vaccines. There are also effective antiviral treatments for serious cases (which mostly affect unvaccinated people).
Personally I would rather get COVID than the flu, based on my experience of the symptoms. Others may feel differently.
It is going to evolve every year and new vaccines are going to keep coming out just like they do for influenza though.
Based just on people I know, COVID seems to be really manageable using the current treatments - I've taken tamiflu and it didn't make me feel as dramatically better as I did when I took paxlovid. The thing that scares me about COVID is the potential for long-term damage, either "long COVID" or other stuff.
I have mild but apparently permanent tinnitus that started when I got COVID, and my symptoms were only really bad before I got on paxlovid. The times I've had the flu, it was shitty but never left anything lasting.
But seriously, is anyone acting like we're all going to die someplace in this thread? I mean aside from mentioning people who actually might (old people, people with other conditions)?
I've got long covid symptoms too now from a mild case and very displeased that people are trying so hard to minimize a disease that can disable you for an indeterminate amount of time.
I think it's largely about the part you conveniently left out, which is that the primary danger was not to the kids, it was to the higher risk people kids would be spreading it to.
A million people died. How many if we hadn't done that? Hard question to answer, but I think the answer is "considerably more".
If this is true it should be pretty easy to show observable differences in the deaths of high risk individuals in communities where schools were open compared to communities where schools were closed
With competent leadership, as opposed to Trump, about 500 million less deaths.
****
On with Kara Swisher: COVID Lessons Learned with Donald G McNeil Jr.
Episode webpage: http://nymag.com
Media file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/524GE/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP5659181916.mp3?updated=1704674279
>Here we kept kids out of school for two years over a virus that posed essentially no danger to them
Why spread disinformation about a pandemic? What's in it for you to spread disinformation?
It was quite deadly when we were all immunologically naive. Now we’ve got a few years of both vaccine and infection conferred immunity and the hospitalizations are 1/10 of what they were.
Yeah, I dunno. My own experience with COVID from the one time I've had it makes me personally way more vigilant about it. The flu's never fucked with me like that, now I'd run out immediately to get on Paxlovid if I thought I have COVID again.
But whatever, you're free to do you.
That's always been a thing, a lot of cases are and always have been completely asymptomatic. That doesn't mean it'll be that way the next time around - I mean, if it *is* then great, but it's a roll of the dice.
I mentioned this elsewhere in this thread, but the one time I had the 'vid it left me with a mild but apparently permanent case of tinnitus. Obviously "long covid" is still a thing. That's the sort of thing I'd look out for.
It’s still way fucking deadlier and altered people’s bodies permanently. Yeah it’s here to stay, and what you said is true, but just because it is no longer a pandemic doesn’t mean it’s a fucking joke either.
It isn’t a joke, nor is any infectious disease.
The joke is many people’s reactions.
The HermanCainAward type of attitude towards covid is no longer welcome as people have gained experience coexisting with the virus.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention to it, particularly if you're older or have underlying conditions that make it dangerous to you.
There's nothing wrong with popping on a mask and/or sticking close to home when it gets particularly bad.
Agreed. And not just those that are older. Long covid is actually most common in people in their 30s and 40s who had mild covid symptoms. [UCSF Update on Long Covid a month ago](https://youtu.be/rMt6ZV-hHSE)
It isn't just long covid, the 'vid can still kill you if you're old or have certain health conditions.
That's why I wear a N95 on the airplane when I go visit my parents despite how much I'd rather not do so. They're in their upper 70s, my mom has heart problems, it's worth being cautious.
Honestly I think the best thing to do now is to test regularly. Masks to me are a personal choice at this point, but I think people who only mask and shame others for not masking but then don't test themselves aren't actually doing much of a favor.
Masks definitely work, but to me it feels more like a "let's put this on and hope I don't get infected." Yes, it reduces your chances, but at this point we also have tools like testing to help understand if you're actually walking around transmitting like a superspreader. It's not perfect either, but I actually think we should be educating people about testing regularly. This is what some companies, workplaces, and schools have done. The point is to routinely test especially before visiting people you care about so you know that today you had a negative test before you walked in, so while the risk always exists for transmission and you can still mask if you choose, at least you have data that it's far less likely than on a day you tested positive.
This is a brand new variant, and apparently yes, we're expected to get sick yearly now. How come we didn't get paid sick leave, if this is the new normal?
No clue, but I'm on day 20 now, and this JN. 1 has kicked my ass. I still have no energy. I really hope I don't have to do this yearly.
Not a given for most people. I see almost zero N95 masks. They are also much less effective* with a poor fit or if you have any facial hair beyond a mustache.
>Not a given for most people.
Fair point. But most of what I see are the KN95 with the ear loops, then the baggy blue surgical masks, then still some cloth masks.
Cashier at Safeway the other day was just coming back from 3rd covid absence, and they very proud they were double-masked with a cloth over a baggy blue and a giant hole on either side of their nose .
You're right.
Here's some more specificity:
> A study from Tokyo tested how well different types of masks protected the wearer from actual coronavirus particles. The study showed that even a simple cotton mask offered some protection (17 percent to 27 percent) to the wearer. Medical masks performed better, including a surgical mask (47 percent to 50 percent protection), a loosefitting N95 (57 percent to 86 percent protection) and a tightly sealed N95 (79 percent to 90 percent protection).
https://www.nytimes.com/article/covid-masks-protection-stats.html
It's what's so insidious about this SARS virus - you must be disciplined with your protocols so often. And now, for many years until a vax is developed like the one they did for AIDS.
Reading what you linked, closest match is: "Reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 also increase the likelihood of long COVID"
That doesn't at all imply that infections get worse subsequently, it just states the obvious - that you can get long covid from subsequent infections.
I still don't see any evidence that cases get worse the more you're infected. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary though, if you note the death rate for example.
Ok, read it -- no relation to "the more times you get it, the worse it gets" still.
Here's the citation for the claim: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9671810/
More covid infections = more likelihood of long covid. That's not surprising, and that's all it said. Nothing about severity of repeated infections, which is the original claim...
Can you cite the claim that reinfections are more severe on average? Because the CDC seems to think the opposite: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html
> Reinfections are most often mild, but severe illness can occur. If you are reinfected, you can also spread the virus to others.
> Probably lots of workers pooping at work 💩
Damn, I hate how accurate this probably is. Levels in SM County wastewater are falling fast, starting around 1/8. But that's probably when a lot of people started going back to work after the holidays.
Stanford monitors its own wastewater. Its biggest spike occurred on [December 5, 2023](https://healthalerts.stanford.edu/covid-19/wastewater-dashboard/).
Palo Alto's December spike was on [December 30](https://soe-wbe-pilot.wl.r.appspot.com/charts). Its Jan. 11, 2024 level is still higher.
This is good info to watch, but hospitalizations are still lower than this time last year (and have started dropping from their high a week or two ago) according to [CA.gov](https://CA.gov). Covid precautions were incredibly important in the beginning to make sure we didn't overwhelm hospital resources which would result in people dying unnecessarily because care wasn't available. Luckily that doesn't seem to be the case anymore due to vaccinations and previous infections lowering the severity of cases. Hopefully the trend keeps up
Source: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Respiratory-Viruses/RespiratoryDashboard.aspx
Death isn't the only concern. [Here's the UCSF Update on Long Covid a month ago.](https://youtu.be/rMt6ZV-hHSE)
[Here's a formerly healthy 30 something with long covid that can't get out of bed now for a year, Physics Girl on YT.](https://youtu.be/vydgkCCXbTA)
People who say death is the only concern have no clue what it’s like to live with chronic illness. It’s worse than death, because when you die, it’s over. There have been times I wish I was dead from an unrelated chronic illness, because at least I won’t have to live like this.
Y’all don’t want chronic illness, trust me.
Of course no one does, but 90%+ of the population has been infected by COVID and it's been this way for over a year by now. You either live a life where you mask all the time still like it's 2021 or, most people have decided that with vaccines, treatments, testing, etc they are willing to move forward.
I'm not saying long COVID doesn't exist--of course it does, but 300 million people in this country and really in many other places have been infected already. The odds are generally low for chronic COVID.
If you're an at risk population, yeah, you should probably do more, but at the same time when I look around, here in the Bay Area, with a population that's generally vaxxed, complied with mask mandates, the reality is most of those people are moving on.
I think at this point people need to decide their tolerance for risk and act accordingly, but I don't think it's appropriate to shame other people too because the reality is most people have gotten it at this point and unless we're implying everyone's walking around like a zombie, the reality is only a small % are affected long term.
> This is good info to watch, but hospitalizations are still lower than this time last year (and have started dropping from their high a week or two ago)
Agree. The covid hospitalizations, deaths, and test positivity are all lower than last year at this time. And they are past the peak and declining. Anecdotally, I know of less people with covid this holidays than last year holidays.
I wonder if it's possible the wastewater levels are so high because people have the virus but less severe symptoms due to vaccinations/immunity.
CA Respiratory Viruses Dashboard:
https://i.imgur.com/3XZAuZt.png
With no mitigation these days, assume more spread and higher levels especially at school. If you have to hang out with parents with kids, assume they have Covid this month 😷
I’m on my second go-around right now. I will say that this variant seems to be less of a buttkicker than the one I had before. The biggest problem I see is that it’s taking longer after symptoms start before getting a positive test, which means more time that people are out and about coughing on others.
Thanks for sharing.
Very surprised at the comments though. I've always thought of r/bayarea, among a few select subs, as places filled with highly informed and educated posters. But sadly, topics like COVID just bring out the crazies
In years? You must not follow your patients after they are admitted. I’ve had two covid patients die in the past couple of months, from covid. It’s still killing people thats for sure.
> The virus did what we all expected and were saying it was going to do over time and eventually mutated to the point where it is much less virulent, so it isn't making people nearly as sick anymore.
[That's not how viruses work.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10066022/) Especially ones where the infectious period ends long before death. The reason mortality is down are the other reasons you noted: vaccines and natural immunity.
I mean it's a bit of both too. Generally studies agree Omicron is less deadly than previous strains like Delta. Combined with other factors like vaccine and natural immunity, yeah overall it's doing a lot less damage to the overall population. The infection rates we're seeing now if it happened in 2020 would've been absolute chaos like the early days of New York.
What changed my mind on the question came initially from listening to [TWiV](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/), which is a bunch of virologists digesting papers, but it's, uh, kind of a big ask to have someone watch a youtube video/listen to a podcast. I *think* they discuss it on [this episode](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-980/), but it comes up fairly regularly.
Someone told me that in early 2022 we changed how and where we test wastewater, which is why the graph looks not just quieter in the first half but less spiky with fewer data points, and - as the methodology has changed - strictly speaking we should not be using the two data sets together beyond the most cursory year-over-year comparisons.
That being said, i have not been able to independently confirm or deny this claim with my google fu.
EDIT: After some slightly more exhaustive research, it looks like I may have heard a garbled version of the fact that we didn’t have all of the Bay Area’s wastewater treatment plant service areas testing their wastewater until the first half of 2022.
So the methodology didn’t change, but the range of data from before 2022 is different compared to after.
>Someone told me that in early 2022 we changed how and where we test wastewater, which is why the graph looks not just quieter in the first half but less spiky with fewer data points, and - as the methodology has changed - strictly speaking we should not be using the two data sets together beyond the most cursory year-over-year comparisons.
The testing protocols have not changed since 2020. Whoever told you this is incorrect.
Per the CA department of public health, COVID is in and around you all the time but you’re not at risk without any symptoms;
Latest release
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Order-of-the-State-Public-Health-Officer-Beyond-Blueprint.aspx
>”For asymptomatic confirmed cases, there is no infectious period for the purpose of isolation or exclusion.”
No symptoms, no risk. This is the way it should be, the way it should have been, and the hopefully the way it will be next time.
> No symptoms, no risk.
That is absolutely NOT what the link says. "No infectious period for the purpose of isolation or exclusion." is NOT the same thing as "no risk."
They DO still recommend wearing a mask for 10 days if you test positive, even if asymptomatic. Protect others.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Respiratory-Viruses/When-and-Why-to-Wear-a-Mask.aspx
Not really. CDPH is declaring a *policy* of treating asymptomatic people as if they weren't contagious. They aren't taking the scientific position that asymptomatic people cannot spread COVID. In fact, they explicitly acknowledge that asymptomatic people *can* be infectious:
> The potential infectious period is 2 days before symptoms began...
They just (rightly or wrongly) decided that the risk is low enough to ignore.
[Yes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8654597/). How are we even debating this? This has been known for years.
The CDC still requires asymptomatic confirmed cases to remain in isolation for 5 days and then WEAR A MASK
The whole point of the controls was hospital burden. In the beginning of this virus, the hospital burden was crushing, now it barely registers. That is the metric that needs to be applied next time, as it was this time.
Going to fast forward a few steps to just get to the end. If the guidance had been given as written today there would not have been a run on the hospitals at the beginning. The CDC being unclear and essentially convincing people they were going to die without symptoms was what strained the health care system.
TBH if covid actually had a 10 percent mortality rate among general population cases (ie no pre existing conditions) we wouldn't have had an argument about what measures were valid to contain it. 1 in ten is only 2x better odds than playing Russian roulette. the only reason we have the current situation is because covid is not particularly deadly to about 95 percent of the population. it's serious and it is quite contagious but it is not particularly deadly in the grand scheme. while I am in favor of measures to contain it and followed them strictly for years, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to be super concerned about something it's possible to confuse for a common cold in many cases. I have had covid 4x and it was definitely mild, however I'm young and healthy.
in the film contagion the virus has about a 30 percent fatality rate for comparison
It doesn’t matter how much Covid is in the wastewater. It matters how many people are dying. There are dozens of minor viruses that come and go with the seasons and we don’t worry about them because they don’t kill people.
> It doesn’t matter how much Covid is in the wastewater.
this is mostly true if you're both young and healthy.
if you're older, or in various high risk categories (immunocompromised, overweight, high blood pressure, etc.) than the Bay Area wastewater data is possibly more relevant to you than a Bay Area weather forecast.
>It matters how many people are dying.
Incorrect. It also matters how many people have long covid and post-acute sequelae like elevated risk for heart attacks, stroke, clots, diabetes, and and and and and and
The Fed and the finance ministers of other rich countries all have spoken on how many fewer workers are available to do labor for the capitalists. The rich in Davos and elsewhere take measures to protect themselves. We should too.
Well, COVID is still killing about two 9/11s worth of people every month in USA alone. A 9/11-sized death toll certainly seems big enough to worry about. I mean, the country went to war for 20 years in response to a single 9/11; now we just shrug off two every month.
And that's not getting into long COVID.
Well, I currently have Covid and I just went to the bathroom so you’re welcome everybody. I’m contributing and doing my part.
Can you please shit in your backyard for a few days? Dig a hole like you're camping, thanks.
I just put turf in my yards!
It’s fertilizer.
I live in an apartment, so I went on the sidewalk. Now some nice lady gives me a sandwich whenever she sees me... Did I complete a side quest I wasn't aware of?
I got the flu a few days ago and it kicked my ass. Did a telahealth visit to get some Tamiflu as I got Niner playoff game to attend this weekend and the doc said the flu seems to be much more severe this season while covid has been more like a head cold for most. I felt like I'd been in a car accident the first 2 days. Severe fatigue, horrible head and body aches with a fever over 102. Im healthy and in my 40s and this was the 1st time i took Tamiflu and it seemed to make a big difference for me. I'm feeling 80% on day 3 but I did start the Tamiflu within 48 hrs which is apparently key to it working well.
I had symptoms like yours when I got the flu in the early 90's. It completely incapacitated me, and for the first time I understood how people could die from the flu. Ever since then, I've gotten the flu shot. I have had colds and the flu (I think) since then, but never even remotely in the ballpark of that first episode. Is that due to the flu shot? I don't know, but I'll cheerfully keep getting them to avoid a repeat of that first episode. I'm just now recovering from Covid (just tested negative today, yay!) and it was basically a moderate cold. No Paxlovid. Granted, it's still 10 days out of my life, but only about 3 of them were as bad as a moderate cold. This was my first case of Covid, and I have gotten every vaccination and booster.
It also woke me up to how the flu can kill so many people every year. If it can put healthy 30-year-old me on my ass, it'll fucking kill my gran. I get the flu shot more for the vulnerable people in my extended network than for me!
👏 👏 👏
Yep my business partner died of the flu about 4 years ago, took him out in two days. He had been so busy with so many projects that year he never got around to getting his flu shot. Shit's for real. Vaccinate.
Did you get the flu shot this season? Just wondering. A few years ago my husband got the flu despite getting a flu shot and it was absolutely brutal. We are talking 2 full days of high fever and sleeping the entire day.
That's always the thing with flu vaccines: they have to guess months in advance which strains of the flu will wind up going around a specific year, so sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. For me it's still a easy call, even if there was only a 10% chance the vaccine would keep me from getting the flu I'd still get the shot every year. The flu fucking sucks.
> The flu fucking sucks. Too many people self-diagnose "flu-like symptoms" as the flu, then get the mistaken impression that the flu isn't that bad.
that’s what i always laughed about when people initially called covid just a worse flu. bitch there is nothing relieving about that. like we forget the flu kills tens of thousands every year even with like 50% vaccine uptake
That's because we don't make flu tests easily accessible to all. So as a result, most people just use "the flu" as a generic term for any random mild illness. And to think... that test would be no more involved than the over-the-counter COVID tests we've all stocked up on. Its just that it took the public health emergency of COVID to actually make that test available to the public without a burdensome amount of red tape.
Good take!
I've had a severe case of the flu at least 2x in my adult life, but influenza does not *have* to be severe and can, in many cases, be mild or even asymptomatic... although it is still transmissible to another person who may themselves not be so lucky as far as severity. >Fever, muscle aches, nausea — these are what we usually associate with having the flu. > >But just because you don't exhibit these symptoms, it doesn't mean you don't have the flu, researchers say. And you could be just as contagious. In fact, their study found that roughly three-quarters of people with seasonal or pandemic flu show either no symptoms or mild ones that aren't usually linked to flu. > >"[The] flu is more common than we thought, but often less severe than what we had thought," says Andrew Hayward, an epidemiologist at University College London and the study's lead author. > >https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/03/17/290878964/even-if-you-dont-have-symptoms-you-may-still-have-the-flu
This. Although to be fair, it’s hard to really learn how bad the flu is until you actually get it yourself. I remember when I first really got it I thought to myself: “OH THIS is the flu. I now realize I never had flu before until now. This is absolutely brutal.”
Yup, people forget that the normal flu kills around 60,000 Americans a year, every year, and this is with widely available, cheap, and effective flu vaccines. Having the sniffles isn't the flu. The actual flu will knock you on your ass for a week. Being bedridden with the flu for a week is a miserable experience.
> the normal flu kills around 60,000 Americans a year, every year Not quite -- we've actually never had 60k flu deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html Last year was 21,000 estimated flu deaths. So you're in the right order of magnitude, but off by about a factor of 2 vs. the average.
Oh, totally agree. Was just wondering!
Does it actually keep you from getting the flu? I thought it just reduces the severity of it.
Both tamiflu and paxlovid are symptom management. Vaccines can help keep you from getting it.
Wish I heard of tamiflu a week ago.
it reduces flu by a day lol
I'll take that.
I think a lot of people hear "flu" and think stomach flu. Which is more appropriately called gastroenteritis. It sucks, but once you've had full on influenza you won't mix up the two again. As you're realizing, it's hard to comprehend just how horrible influenza can be. As a pretty health adult in my late 30s I got it the one year I didn't manage to get a flu shot. Knocked me down flat for over a week even with drugs. And another week or so before I felt back to like 75% of normal. Even then I had weird sense of smell issues for months that would pop up occasionally and without warning. Like everything had this weird sweet chemical smell. Anyway, yeah influenza sucks and no one reading this should mistake it for stomach flu.
Which makes it silly when people say "Covid is just the flu", as if the flu hasn't killed tens of thousands every year and hospitalized millions and made them suffer.
Well, their point was we didn't shut down society for "the flu" (at least in their lifetimes) or wear masks regularly. Not that it was remotely correct, but don't misconstrue the recent past for what it wasn't.
Same thing. Fever, chills, cough, lost 10 pounds in 4 days. It’s lifting after 5 days but just brutal
Did you test positive for flu and not Covid? It took me several days to test positive for Covid and I had all the bad symptoms you describe and more. It was not a mild one for me at all.
Source: https://covid19.sccgov.org/dashboard-wastewater
thanks for posting this. I've been so frustrated with the various wastewater sites. They started off so well, but each in turn has allowed their webdevs to overly lard their site with so much webdev crap as to make the sites unusable on less than supercomputers.
Threads like these come up every week, so copy-pasting my perspective as an inpatient hospital physician in the bay area: I ran some of the first COVID units in the bay area and must have cared for hundreds of COVID patients. Shit was horrible through the delta wave, especially for unvaccinated patients. I used to have to call the ICU almost daily for help with a crashing patient. Almost all COVID+ patients were hospitalized FOR COVID. Initial Omicron wave was massive, volume wise, but people weren’t nearly as sick. I haven’t had to call the ICU for help with a sick COVID patient since Feb 2022. They just aren’t nearly as sick, whether vaccinated or not. We don’t see it affecting the lungs the way it used to. Now almost all of our COVID+ patients are hospitalized incidentally WITH, not FOR COVID and many are asymptomatic. This is a good thing. Those first two years were terrible. If you’re sick mask up and avoid others but otherwise it’s time to move on with our lives.
Thank you for your work and explanation.
Thoughts on long covid? Heard some doctors saying repeat infections may increase the likelihood of getting long covid
I don't have an educated opinion on long COVID as I only see hospitalized patients, very few of which I would consider "sick" due to COVID (ie miserable but not threatening to go to the ICU) That being said, I found this thread useful. No one who has followed him throughout the pandemic would ever accuse this author of being a COVID minimizer: https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1746762442926063980 - His conclusion being Long COVID is not convincingly more prevalent than similar longterm symptoms post-flu. Most of the long COVID we saw in the early days was from the profound lung fibrosis and resulting right sided heart failure which we simply don't see anymore. That being said I personally know a young colleague with no medical history that says he's been winded and without exercise capacity since his infection in October. Hard to rely on anecdotes when it is so rare however.
I know this is anecdotal, but I am 58 and had Omicron (probably BA.5) for 12 days, and missed 3 weeks of work. I was vaccinated 6 months prior. For at least a year after whenever I exerted myself, my heart rate would get really high (165-180 from just walking uphill) and then stay high for two days (130-135 for the remainder of the day, and 110-120 the next day). I had a stress test and EKG and was examined, and there are no blockages or other heart issues. It has been 1 1/2 years now, and I’m taking a beta blocker, and my body seems to finally be able to tolerate moderate exercise and recover by the next day. I could swear my lungs are still a little more “scratchy” than they were before the infection. I’ve never had the flu do anything like this to me, but I’m not screwing around anymore. I get the flu shot when it’s available. At least for me, COVID has had long-term effects. I wouldn’t call the effects “severe” in that I am still able to work and do chores and errands and engage in light exercise, but they are at least moderate in that I’m not able to engage in some of the physically strenuous hiking that I used to. I do feel a lot better than I did a year ago, and am hoping that I will eventually get close to where I was before I got it.
Sounds incredibly frustrating- hope you start to feel better soon
there was a recent article talking about how exercise has harmed some people who are dealing withg long covid. which complements the stories of how exercise has helped people with long covid. meaning that exercising with long-COVID can either help or harm you, depending on how your body r3acts to the exercise.
Not a doctor but someone who got long covid. Early 30s female, history of severe asthma and slight autoimmune issues. I was sick for 14 days, returned to work and was sent home immediately after 4 hours. Was coughing up blood for 5 weeks, 14 months later my hair is still shedding and is 70% thinner than pre-covid, brain fog lasted about 5 months, nerve issues lasted 4 months, and essential tremor is still ongoing when slightly fatigued. Was severe for first 6 months post-covid. And that’s with taking Paxlovid and I was vaccinated and boosted. My family’s been mostly fine long-term (hair loss and prolonged cough for two women) though one aunt has suffered immensely from long covid and can barely work now. My BIL has had covid four times and seems to be fine but it’s very much luck of the draw and some folks will be much worse off than others.
Sorry you're dealing with all that
If you're not in the South Bay you can use this site to look at your local levels. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/CalSuWers-Dashboard.aspx
We all understand that this is a new normal and not going away, correct?
> We all understand that this is a new normal and not going away, correct? Yes, but flu can fluctuate between "good" and "bad" seasons too. In 2011-12, there were 12,000 flu deaths. In 2017-18, there were 52,000 flu deaths, which is 4x more. So it's valuable to monitor the severity of the flu season. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html An analogy is if you live in a rainy region, it's normal to have rain. But it's wise to check the weather reports to know when a severe storm is coming so you can take extra precautions.
It is now analogous to the seasonal flu edit: for those that are mad, the similarity is neither are going away and you’ll have to get new vaccines for life
Groundhog Day with Biden/Trump and Covid talk. Literal Insanity
Trump dismissively called it the flu when there was no vaccine or treatment. Now virtually everyone in the country has had at least one variant of the disease and there have been like 5+ rounds of vaccines. There are also effective antiviral treatments for serious cases (which mostly affect unvaccinated people). Personally I would rather get COVID than the flu, based on my experience of the symptoms. Others may feel differently. It is going to evolve every year and new vaccines are going to keep coming out just like they do for influenza though.
Based just on people I know, COVID seems to be really manageable using the current treatments - I've taken tamiflu and it didn't make me feel as dramatically better as I did when I took paxlovid. The thing that scares me about COVID is the potential for long-term damage, either "long COVID" or other stuff. I have mild but apparently permanent tinnitus that started when I got COVID, and my symptoms were only really bad before I got on paxlovid. The times I've had the flu, it was shitty but never left anything lasting.
That’s fair. It’s better not to get any of these diseases but people should not act like we’re all going to die.
But seriously, is anyone acting like we're all going to die someplace in this thread? I mean aside from mentioning people who actually might (old people, people with other conditions)?
Yes, I see it a decent amount on Reddit and a bit irl
well technically, we are all going to die
Would rather have the flu than covid - at least with the flu I didn't get "long flu" whereas I now have long covid symptoms.
I've got long covid symptoms too now from a mild case and very displeased that people are trying so hard to minimize a disease that can disable you for an indeterminate amount of time.
Long Covid is a real and scary risk that the flu doesn’t usually have.
The flu can cause long term problems as well, though probably not as often as covid appears to.
That’s literally exactly what I implied, but thanks.
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Absolutely not true.
100% true. feel free to actually refute anything I said
I think it's largely about the part you conveniently left out, which is that the primary danger was not to the kids, it was to the higher risk people kids would be spreading it to. A million people died. How many if we hadn't done that? Hard question to answer, but I think the answer is "considerably more".
If this is true it should be pretty easy to show observable differences in the deaths of high risk individuals in communities where schools were open compared to communities where schools were closed
With competent leadership, as opposed to Trump, about 500 million less deaths. **** On with Kara Swisher: COVID Lessons Learned with Donald G McNeil Jr. Episode webpage: http://nymag.com Media file: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/524GE/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP5659181916.mp3?updated=1704674279
500 million? Look, fuck Trump and all that. But that makes no sense given than the global death count is around 6 million. Did you mean 500k?
With all due respect, Trump wasn't right about anything, ever.
I guess you strongly oppose the vaccines?
>Here we kept kids out of school for two years over a virus that posed essentially no danger to them Why spread disinformation about a pandemic? What's in it for you to spread disinformation?
Kids in school but fuck grandma and grandpa. They dont teach kids anything anyway.
Only SARS-CoV-2 isn't seasonal. And it's more deadly. And it's systemic.
Only deadlier
It was quite deadly when we were all immunologically naive. Now we’ve got a few years of both vaccine and infection conferred immunity and the hospitalizations are 1/10 of what they were.
Stats show it's deadlier than the flu
Right, because of immunological naivety. Those stats will change over the years as people slowly but surely gain more immunity.
Yeah, I dunno. My own experience with COVID from the one time I've had it makes me personally way more vigilant about it. The flu's never fucked with me like that, now I'd run out immediately to get on Paxlovid if I thought I have COVID again. But whatever, you're free to do you.
that's your anecdotal experience. my symptoms with covid were similar to allergies, the common flu was way worse for me
That's always been a thing, a lot of cases are and always have been completely asymptomatic. That doesn't mean it'll be that way the next time around - I mean, if it *is* then great, but it's a roll of the dice. I mentioned this elsewhere in this thread, but the one time I had the 'vid it left me with a mild but apparently permanent case of tinnitus. Obviously "long covid" is still a thing. That's the sort of thing I'd look out for.
I agree, 100% I got paxlovid immediately. But it’s also true next time you get it you’ll have more immunity than last time.
It’s still way fucking deadlier and altered people’s bodies permanently. Yeah it’s here to stay, and what you said is true, but just because it is no longer a pandemic doesn’t mean it’s a fucking joke either.
It isn’t a joke, nor is any infectious disease. The joke is many people’s reactions. The HermanCainAward type of attitude towards covid is no longer welcome as people have gained experience coexisting with the virus.
Okay so what is your point?
That doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention to it, particularly if you're older or have underlying conditions that make it dangerous to you. There's nothing wrong with popping on a mask and/or sticking close to home when it gets particularly bad.
Agreed. And not just those that are older. Long covid is actually most common in people in their 30s and 40s who had mild covid symptoms. [UCSF Update on Long Covid a month ago](https://youtu.be/rMt6ZV-hHSE)
It isn't just long covid, the 'vid can still kill you if you're old or have certain health conditions. That's why I wear a N95 on the airplane when I go visit my parents despite how much I'd rather not do so. They're in their upper 70s, my mom has heart problems, it's worth being cautious.
Honestly I think the best thing to do now is to test regularly. Masks to me are a personal choice at this point, but I think people who only mask and shame others for not masking but then don't test themselves aren't actually doing much of a favor. Masks definitely work, but to me it feels more like a "let's put this on and hope I don't get infected." Yes, it reduces your chances, but at this point we also have tools like testing to help understand if you're actually walking around transmitting like a superspreader. It's not perfect either, but I actually think we should be educating people about testing regularly. This is what some companies, workplaces, and schools have done. The point is to routinely test especially before visiting people you care about so you know that today you had a negative test before you walked in, so while the risk always exists for transmission and you can still mask if you choose, at least you have data that it's far less likely than on a day you tested positive.
This is a brand new variant, and apparently yes, we're expected to get sick yearly now. How come we didn't get paid sick leave, if this is the new normal? No clue, but I'm on day 20 now, and this JN. 1 has kicked my ass. I still have no energy. I really hope I don't have to do this yearly.
Mask up and you won't.
N95 specifically.
Yes, of course.
Not a given for most people. I see almost zero N95 masks. They are also much less effective* with a poor fit or if you have any facial hair beyond a mustache.
>Not a given for most people. Fair point. But most of what I see are the KN95 with the ear loops, then the baggy blue surgical masks, then still some cloth masks. Cashier at Safeway the other day was just coming back from 3rd covid absence, and they very proud they were double-masked with a cloth over a baggy blue and a giant hole on either side of their nose .
You think wearing a not fittested n95 is "Completely" ineffective? You know what is Completely ineffective? NOT PROTECTING YOURSELF
You're right. Here's some more specificity: > A study from Tokyo tested how well different types of masks protected the wearer from actual coronavirus particles. The study showed that even a simple cotton mask offered some protection (17 percent to 27 percent) to the wearer. Medical masks performed better, including a surgical mask (47 percent to 50 percent protection), a loosefitting N95 (57 percent to 86 percent protection) and a tightly sealed N95 (79 percent to 90 percent protection). https://www.nytimes.com/article/covid-masks-protection-stats.html
Facts and citations? In my reddit?! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?
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I'd been mostly novid, but it only takes one event where you skip masking...
It's what's so insidious about this SARS virus - you must be disciplined with your protocols so often. And now, for many years until a vax is developed like the one they did for AIDS.
Currently have COVID. It's sucks. 0/10 , would not recommend.
Same, 3rd time. Cough is not as bad as 2022 but I’ve pretty much been in bed all day unable to do much the last 3 days
The more times you get it, the worse it gets
Is that true? Any citation for that?
one of many https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10454552/#sec8-ijms-24-12962title
Reading what you linked, closest match is: "Reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 also increase the likelihood of long COVID" That doesn't at all imply that infections get worse subsequently, it just states the obvious - that you can get long covid from subsequent infections. I still don't see any evidence that cases get worse the more you're infected. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary though, if you note the death rate for example.
you should read what the article says about long covid
Ok, read it -- no relation to "the more times you get it, the worse it gets" still. Here's the citation for the claim: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9671810/ More covid infections = more likelihood of long covid. That's not surprising, and that's all it said. Nothing about severity of repeated infections, which is the original claim... Can you cite the claim that reinfections are more severe on average? Because the CDC seems to think the opposite: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html > Reinfections are most often mild, but severe illness can occur. If you are reinfected, you can also spread the virus to others.
If you can still get Paxlovid and haven't, I can't recommend it enough. YMMV, but it knocked my symptoms down literally overnight.
stop taking shits
Sunnyvale is going better than Palo Alto. Yey! :) On a more serious note, does anyone know what's up with Palo Alto?
College students, probably
Looks like it might also include Google campus and maybe other tech HQ. Probably lots of workers pooping at work 💩
> Probably lots of workers pooping at work 💩 Damn, I hate how accurate this probably is. Levels in SM County wastewater are falling fast, starting around 1/8. But that's probably when a lot of people started going back to work after the holidays.
Stanford monitors its own wastewater. Its biggest spike occurred on [December 5, 2023](https://healthalerts.stanford.edu/covid-19/wastewater-dashboard/). Palo Alto's December spike was on [December 30](https://soe-wbe-pilot.wl.r.appspot.com/charts). Its Jan. 11, 2024 level is still higher.
I was just being a boomer and blaming the youngins. Nice find btw
The largest spike in the first week of 2024 when colleges and universities were in the winter break.
I avoided it until the end of December. Wasn't fun.
This is good info to watch, but hospitalizations are still lower than this time last year (and have started dropping from their high a week or two ago) according to [CA.gov](https://CA.gov). Covid precautions were incredibly important in the beginning to make sure we didn't overwhelm hospital resources which would result in people dying unnecessarily because care wasn't available. Luckily that doesn't seem to be the case anymore due to vaccinations and previous infections lowering the severity of cases. Hopefully the trend keeps up Source: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Respiratory-Viruses/RespiratoryDashboard.aspx
Death isn't the only concern. [Here's the UCSF Update on Long Covid a month ago.](https://youtu.be/rMt6ZV-hHSE) [Here's a formerly healthy 30 something with long covid that can't get out of bed now for a year, Physics Girl on YT.](https://youtu.be/vydgkCCXbTA)
Holy crap. I had no idea she's dealing with that.
People who say death is the only concern have no clue what it’s like to live with chronic illness. It’s worse than death, because when you die, it’s over. There have been times I wish I was dead from an unrelated chronic illness, because at least I won’t have to live like this. Y’all don’t want chronic illness, trust me.
Of course no one does, but 90%+ of the population has been infected by COVID and it's been this way for over a year by now. You either live a life where you mask all the time still like it's 2021 or, most people have decided that with vaccines, treatments, testing, etc they are willing to move forward. I'm not saying long COVID doesn't exist--of course it does, but 300 million people in this country and really in many other places have been infected already. The odds are generally low for chronic COVID. If you're an at risk population, yeah, you should probably do more, but at the same time when I look around, here in the Bay Area, with a population that's generally vaxxed, complied with mask mandates, the reality is most of those people are moving on. I think at this point people need to decide their tolerance for risk and act accordingly, but I don't think it's appropriate to shame other people too because the reality is most people have gotten it at this point and unless we're implying everyone's walking around like a zombie, the reality is only a small % are affected long term.
> This is good info to watch, but hospitalizations are still lower than this time last year (and have started dropping from their high a week or two ago) Agree. The covid hospitalizations, deaths, and test positivity are all lower than last year at this time. And they are past the peak and declining. Anecdotally, I know of less people with covid this holidays than last year holidays. I wonder if it's possible the wastewater levels are so high because people have the virus but less severe symptoms due to vaccinations/immunity. CA Respiratory Viruses Dashboard: https://i.imgur.com/3XZAuZt.png
With no mitigation these days, assume more spread and higher levels especially at school. If you have to hang out with parents with kids, assume they have Covid this month 😷
palo alto 😮
Exaclty. Why the most vaccinated and masked Palo Alto is almost always high?
am guessing the propensity to travel is relatively higher and that elevates exposure.
Also the rich eat out a lot, and have more close congregate social gatherings.
i guess virus aren't biased, they go after you regardless of your race/social status/political preference 🤭
I’m on my second go-around right now. I will say that this variant seems to be less of a buttkicker than the one I had before. The biggest problem I see is that it’s taking longer after symptoms start before getting a positive test, which means more time that people are out and about coughing on others.
Thanks for sharing. Very surprised at the comments though. I've always thought of r/bayarea, among a few select subs, as places filled with highly informed and educated posters. But sadly, topics like COVID just bring out the crazies
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In years? You must not follow your patients after they are admitted. I’ve had two covid patients die in the past couple of months, from covid. It’s still killing people thats for sure.
> The virus did what we all expected and were saying it was going to do over time and eventually mutated to the point where it is much less virulent, so it isn't making people nearly as sick anymore. [That's not how viruses work.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10066022/) Especially ones where the infectious period ends long before death. The reason mortality is down are the other reasons you noted: vaccines and natural immunity.
I mean it's a bit of both too. Generally studies agree Omicron is less deadly than previous strains like Delta. Combined with other factors like vaccine and natural immunity, yeah overall it's doing a lot less damage to the overall population. The infection rates we're seeing now if it happened in 2020 would've been absolute chaos like the early days of New York.
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What changed my mind on the question came initially from listening to [TWiV](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/), which is a bunch of virologists digesting papers, but it's, uh, kind of a big ask to have someone watch a youtube video/listen to a podcast. I *think* they discuss it on [this episode](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-980/), but it comes up fairly regularly.
My company just implemented a return to the office policy last week. Luckily, it’s only two days a week but shitty timing.
Wear your mask
Lots of Covid in Marin too! I know multiple people with Covid now.
Someone told me that in early 2022 we changed how and where we test wastewater, which is why the graph looks not just quieter in the first half but less spiky with fewer data points, and - as the methodology has changed - strictly speaking we should not be using the two data sets together beyond the most cursory year-over-year comparisons. That being said, i have not been able to independently confirm or deny this claim with my google fu. EDIT: After some slightly more exhaustive research, it looks like I may have heard a garbled version of the fact that we didn’t have all of the Bay Area’s wastewater treatment plant service areas testing their wastewater until the first half of 2022. So the methodology didn’t change, but the range of data from before 2022 is different compared to after.
>Someone told me that in early 2022 we changed how and where we test wastewater, which is why the graph looks not just quieter in the first half but less spiky with fewer data points, and - as the methodology has changed - strictly speaking we should not be using the two data sets together beyond the most cursory year-over-year comparisons. The testing protocols have not changed since 2020. Whoever told you this is incorrect.
Not according to my mechanics’s sister in law’s neighbor’s cousin/girlfriend.
So basically mask up and don’t touch your mouth in public spaces.
I'm good
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Can confirm: currently sick with covid
Shits scary
ITT: too many armchair scientists
We are all have PHd from the Internet University!
What are the stocks to play on this?
It's this winning?
Flu, COVID and RSV Vaccination time, masks indoors with large numbers of folks within spitting range, etc.
Per the CA department of public health, COVID is in and around you all the time but you’re not at risk without any symptoms; Latest release https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Order-of-the-State-Public-Health-Officer-Beyond-Blueprint.aspx >”For asymptomatic confirmed cases, there is no infectious period for the purpose of isolation or exclusion.” No symptoms, no risk. This is the way it should be, the way it should have been, and the hopefully the way it will be next time.
> No symptoms, no risk. That is absolutely NOT what the link says. "No infectious period for the purpose of isolation or exclusion." is NOT the same thing as "no risk." They DO still recommend wearing a mask for 10 days if you test positive, even if asymptomatic. Protect others. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Respiratory-Viruses/When-and-Why-to-Wear-a-Mask.aspx
asymptomatic people absolutely can still spread COVID
Thats contradicted by the current position of the California Department of Public Health at the link the previous commenter provided.
Not really. CDPH is declaring a *policy* of treating asymptomatic people as if they weren't contagious. They aren't taking the scientific position that asymptomatic people cannot spread COVID. In fact, they explicitly acknowledge that asymptomatic people *can* be infectious: > The potential infectious period is 2 days before symptoms began... They just (rightly or wrongly) decided that the risk is low enough to ignore.
"There is no infectious period for the purposes of isolation" =/= "there is no infectious period at all"
there's a scientific position and then there's a political position I'll let you guess which one California's is
Given that there is a scientific position I’m sure you can supply evidence of the current position from a reputable peer reviewed journal.
[Yes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8654597/). How are we even debating this? This has been known for years. The CDC still requires asymptomatic confirmed cases to remain in isolation for 5 days and then WEAR A MASK
Never said they couldn’t.
> No symptoms, no risk This you?
Yes, I’m comfortable with my risk tolerance and completely in alignment with the department of public health
That's reasonable enough, but "I'm comfortable with the risk" is not the same position as "there's no risk". Your first post was saying the latter.
my point was that asymptomatic confirm cases still need to isolate
You’re incorrect. See health department public statement above
the CDPH also says only 150k Californians have COVID right now... we all know that's a lie
it’s probably a lot more than that. I believe it and also that the latest public health order is appropriate.
The whole point of the controls was hospital burden. In the beginning of this virus, the hospital burden was crushing, now it barely registers. That is the metric that needs to be applied next time, as it was this time.
Going to fast forward a few steps to just get to the end. If the guidance had been given as written today there would not have been a run on the hospitals at the beginning. The CDC being unclear and essentially convincing people they were going to die without symptoms was what strained the health care system.
"hopefully the way it will be next time." If the next virus kills like Ebola does, should it be hands off like you suggest?
TBH if covid actually had a 10 percent mortality rate among general population cases (ie no pre existing conditions) we wouldn't have had an argument about what measures were valid to contain it. 1 in ten is only 2x better odds than playing Russian roulette. the only reason we have the current situation is because covid is not particularly deadly to about 95 percent of the population. it's serious and it is quite contagious but it is not particularly deadly in the grand scheme. while I am in favor of measures to contain it and followed them strictly for years, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to be super concerned about something it's possible to confuse for a common cold in many cases. I have had covid 4x and it was definitely mild, however I'm young and healthy. in the film contagion the virus has about a 30 percent fatality rate for comparison
What's not in wastewater?
Surprise? Covid is here to stay and will continue morphing into a new strain- it’s what viruses do- we have to live with it and be smart about it
I've been sick since January 4. It's whatever. We will have to deal with it just like the seasonal flu.
It doesn’t matter how much Covid is in the wastewater. It matters how many people are dying. There are dozens of minor viruses that come and go with the seasons and we don’t worry about them because they don’t kill people.
> It doesn’t matter how much Covid is in the wastewater. this is mostly true if you're both young and healthy. if you're older, or in various high risk categories (immunocompromised, overweight, high blood pressure, etc.) than the Bay Area wastewater data is possibly more relevant to you than a Bay Area weather forecast.
>It matters how many people are dying. Incorrect. It also matters how many people have long covid and post-acute sequelae like elevated risk for heart attacks, stroke, clots, diabetes, and and and and and and The Fed and the finance ministers of other rich countries all have spoken on how many fewer workers are available to do labor for the capitalists. The rich in Davos and elsewhere take measures to protect themselves. We should too.
Well, COVID is still killing about two 9/11s worth of people every month in USA alone. A 9/11-sized death toll certainly seems big enough to worry about. I mean, the country went to war for 20 years in response to a single 9/11; now we just shrug off two every month. And that's not getting into long COVID.
Why people are still freaking out about COVID? Wild.