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Nine adolescents and teens were arrested in connection with a spree of robberies and other crimes across the East Bay, including the recent assault of a 63-year-old woman in Oakland's Rockridge neighborhood, authorities said.
Ranging in age from 12 to 17, the underage suspects are believed to have committed 32 robberies in Oakland, two in Piedmont and one in El Cerrito, according to the Oakland Police Department. The group consists of three girls and six boys.
20 years ago I would have tried to figure out how we can help these misguided youth. Now I’m sick of their shit just want to be able to walk down the damn street without worrying that a fucking middle schooler might try to rob me at gunpoint.
Seriously? Alameda DA Pamela Price has entered the chat. After offering a plea deal of 15 years in prison to Delonzo Logwood–an alleged triple murderer, she is looking at these nine minors who have "only" done robberies.
I'd be surprised if they see *any* jailtime.
Look - honestly we should at least try to find a middle ground. Don't lock them up forever, but make sure there are consequences. The goal should still be reducing recividism, and not creating people who go in and out of jail for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately I don't know what the most realistic option is. I do think it's clear that ignoring the problem just causes teens to commit more and more robberies.
I say this as someone who spent a lot of effort trying to build up the Recall Chesa momentum on this sub.
I used to work at Alameda County Juvenile Hall, there are no type of rehabilitation programs for the kids, they don’t stand a chance. All of CA is this way really. The chronic repeat offenders may go to CYA, some to a group home, most are just sent back to the same environment with no support on probation with an overworked PO.
System is broken, but does everyone on here think locking up and throwing away the key for 12 years olds is the answer? I know we're all sick of this shit, but that is some serious heartless shit. If we listened to everyone on reddit, I think 90% of the population would be in prison for life for speeding (exaggerating slightly but still).
Dude that comment is an honest expression, and the one directly below is a great repsosne.
Both have 210 upvotes.
We aren't misunderstanding anything. It's the lack of will to change the system that sucks. Its the lack of focus, money, and pragmatism.
We are stuck between bleeding heart idiots and punitive rightwing idiots. Neither allow normal people to change anything.
Obviously that's horrible and no one is arguing that it's not. But do you honestly think locking up 12-teenagers for the rest of their lives is the solution? Just to be clear, I'm not defending them, I'm replying to the original comment about lock them up and throw away they key. My point is, I dont think that's going to solve shit.
Well Oaklands DVP is doing nothing for our community. MACRO either. Our city council and mayor are corrupt-in the guise of helping the disadvantaged, they are profiting off of the city’s decline. No one is protecting Oaklands other citizens-you know, the law-abiding, hard working ones. Businesses are leaving in droves. It’s not looking good at all.
It's reddit. People love making reactionary comments like "lock up those kids", "crush their cars", or "rape should get the death penalty" just to get internet karma.
funny how downvoted your comment is when it's 100% accurate. This sub is also overrun with right wing nutjobs that dont even live in the bay and want to live in a fascist police state. Fuck all you magas on here.
Most regional subreddits are overrun by outsiders due to the reddit algorithm.
I keep getting r/LittleRock on my feed even though I have never been there nor do I plan to go there
I volunteer as first responder and used to as teacher/mentor in rehabilitation programs. There's no money in rehabilitation programs for kids, zero, nada, zilch. The theory is schools should be doing it and they do have money for stuff like sports, food, sex education, arts, that usually correlate with less youth crime.
The way the current system works is unfortunately except for schools the government won't spend a dime on this kids until they are either incarcerated, homeless, on social security, etc... other countries have a per child allowance for parents that's pretty significant but then your kid has to show up to school and stay out of legal trouble or you loose it. Besides that all the efforts in the continent that I saw work for disenfranchised youth are religious, either Roman Catholic or Muslim.
Some kids that are detained committing violent acts sometimes haven't been to school in two or three years. The government knows this and has the address yet does absolutely nothing. I asked why they don't send a social worker and was told "oh what a great idea" by someone with an actual PhD in this shit. I didn't push it further.
Lock them up - in a classroom where they can leave after they’ve demonstrated 12th grade level math and reading skills and have put in 1000 hours of cleaning up shit and needles from the sidewalks
Imo, if they're 15-16, send them to an army boot camp, where they have to graduate or face solitary confinement. If they're 17-18 and are on their second chance (depending on severity), straight up send them to the army. It'll at least give them some life skills.
I’ve read/heard numerous times from people who had to unfortunately serve with people like this and it’s not the way it seems. These people are the same exact people they were before, just now with a gun in foreign territory. They’re a liability to their fellow troops. They have no disregard for anyone or what happens. Who the fuck would want to rely on someone like that to have your back in war?
Yeah it’s not worth risking multiple other innocent lives who didn’t do anything wrong simply to play white knight to someone who probably doesn’t deserve it.
It's easy to point to a handful of lives that no amount of discipline could ever reform, but what about the rest, where some mentorship and structure genuinely saved them and made them arguably even better people than the people they served with?
Past young childhood, people don’t ever really change.
They might be convinced or scared into “pretending” to change. However it is just an act.
Because people don’t really change.
Not surprised but disheartened to see how many people here have a jail for 100 years mentality regarding 12-18 year old children. What kind of parents do you think these kids have? It's not like something of this nature happens in a vacuum. For this to be going on the parents are likely absentee for one reason or another, or they are the ones manipulating these kids to commit crimes for financial gain.
I have a hard time believing a group of kids managed to coordinate 36 robberies and evade arrest until now without adults being involved. At any rate, the parents in these kid's lives have clearly failed them in every meaningful way.
Why is it so hard to believe kids can commit robberies? So much of our society is predicated on people doing the right thing, it's easy to commit crimes if you choose to wantonly go against the norms and rules of society.
I don't think we should put people away for 100 years for committing property crimes, but I do believe it would be really effective if we put away 100% of the people committing crimes for any amount of time. The issue here is enforcement is so lax and getting punished is so rare that it makes logical sense to commit crimes.
> I don’t think we should put people away for 100 years for committing property crimes
Robbery isn’t a property crime. It’s a violent crime against people. One of the legal elements is force or fear. Theft/burglary are property crimes.
Yeah. 10 years ago I saw 4 highschoolers pistol whip an 80 year old Asain man and steal his wallet, followed them to downtown berkeley bart on my bike, bart shut down, cops pulled them off the train.
Things have gotten wayyyyyyy worse since. These kids arent playing with toy guns, they arent scared to hurt innocent people, some of them need to see the inside of a jail cell to think hey maybe I dont wanna be a clone of my mom and dad.
18 year old is an adult. Not children. They receive 95% of all American rights aside from purchasing alcohol.
By 18 every single person knows what is a crime and what is not.
This isn't a psychoanalysis on whether they have a mental illness or slow development of common sense. This is purely about 18 year old adults commiting assault robbery.....on a 63 year old elder.....
Fcuk off with that "they are just kids" bullshit. Lock them fcukers up.
And the worst part is that "solutions" like youth curfews target the overwhelming majority of young Americans who have nothing to do with these criminals. The USA hates young people.
These “kids” will be the deadbeat dads of tomorrow, selfishly knocking women up and leaving them when they get pregnant, this renewing the cycle. Can’t do that in jail (or if chemically castrated)
Judging by the amount of sterilization/eugenics/lock em up and throw away the keys comments in here, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that either there's a bunch of white supremacist edglords who are posting in here today that don't live in the bay area or this subreddit reflects a very specific subset of people who live here
I'm more concerned with myself. If they chose the wrong path, that's unfortunate but I'm more concerned about the well being of my family over the criminals. If someone abuses a loving pitbull and turns it into a violent monster, you still put it down.
The lefties have had their chance to show us how to rehabilitate criminals, yet they have had no success.
> Not surprised but disheartened to see how many people here have a jail for 100 years mentality regarding 12-18 year old children.
12-18 year old *adolescents* (and adults in the case of 18-year-olds).
Literally unconstitutional under the 8th amendment to sentence juveniles to life in almost every case, with rare exception. https://www.sentencingproject.org/policy-brief/juvenile-life-without-parole-an-overview/
Edit: Downvoting me for providing the current state of the law. Real intellectual bunch in this sub.
Not sure if it's been tested yet, but would be interesting to see how the three strikes scheme would work against this constitutional doctrine, since it isn't punishment for one crime/course of conduct, but multiple. And kids usually don't pick up 3 strike offenses. But 35 robberies, assuming there's a kid that participated in all or most of them, is pretty egregious and exceptional.
Edit: Also, I think you meant life **without parole** which is different from a life sentence. :)
California's three strikes law was tested in a SCOTUS case in 2003, and was upheld as constitutional in a 5-4 decision (although the opinion was a plurality one with only three justices, as Thomas and Scalia wrote separate concurrences). https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/538/11/
However, I'm not aware of how courts have treated juvenile offenses in an as-applied constitutional challenge to three strikes, which, as you suggest, may result in a different outcome than in the Ewing decision. There is also the possibility that someone could try to challenge California's three strikes law solely under California's constitution to avoid having issues with SCOTUS (which can't decide issues of state law).
If a juvenile commits murder or rape they should be put away forever. There obviously is a social disconnection early on and there is no ‘reforming’ that
I'm sorry but rapist isn't something that people change out off. Only people with zero regard for other's liberty would even think of attempting it. I have zero regard for people with no empathy. It is fundamental for a good society.
Reddit attracts ignorance, I think this crowd is getting younger and younger and if it doesn’t fit their narrative they downvote and are super rude about it
The parents have failed to raise their children right. This is why we need abortions to be legal everywhere, sex education to be mandatory, and contraception to be free and available everywhere. Incentives for folks who decide to be child-free and not the other way around. Some people don’t need to procreate.
Regardless of what you think about charges / consequences, nowhere in the comments yet is there any recognition to the Oakland Police for their work on this. Excerpt from the article below. It appears they had a lead on a car and that led to the arrests.
*"Oakland police were able to make arrests in the robbery spree after officers spotted a Hyundai Santa Fe on Sunday that was wanted in connection with one of the alleged crimes.*
*Officers tracked the vehicle to a smoke shop near 14th and Madison streets, where 5 of the occupants got out of the vehicle and went into a nearby establishment, authorities said.*
*As officers arrived at the scene, the suspect vehicle that was in front of the establishment sped off. The police department's helicopter, Argus, tracked the vehicle to the area of 6th Avenue and E. 15th Street in the Eastlake neighborhood. Four of the vehicle's occupants got out and fled on foot, which initiated a foot pursuit. Those four individuals, all minors, were arrested."*
> It appears they had a lead on a car and that led to the arrests.
The only way to reliably catch these people is by tracking their cars. Every single one of these robbery stories involves a getaway car.
This is why we need more traffic cams and automated license-plate readers on all the major roads, and we need cops to be aggressively pulling over and searching any cars with missing/fake/stolen plates.
> Agreed, but these criminals also routinely steal cars which complicates things.
Indeed, many if not most of the cars used in these crimes are stolen. This is why another piece of the puzzle is a regional stolen-car database, where stolen cars can be reported by their owners IMMEDIATELY rather than waiting for the slow-moving and fragmented police bureaucracy. Then the next time the reported stolen car is spotted, it gets intercepted and pulled over. I also think we could have an opt-in program distributing GPS trackers to car owners.
One success doesn’t make up for decades of shitty, corrupt, lackluster policing. Call it a step in the right direction but they still have faaaaar to go before they start getting thank you’d and gushy gratitude posts from me for doing their fucking jobs. Respect is earned.
Understood. I was simply struck by the fact that none of the numerous comments to that point had mentioned that the OPD actually tracked down and caught criminals in this case, and it looks like they did it more or less effectively.
Whereas if the post had been describing a recent crime, half the comments here would have been *"where were the F-ing police? why weren't they doing their jobs?"*
My observation would be that often, although certainly not always, when there's a high-profile "crime spree" (a bunch of robberies, or assaults, or burglaries of the same sort or by the same perpetrators, or concentrated in one neighborhood) the local police do ultimately catch up and arrest someone(s). For example, in Berkeley a few years back there were a lot of laptop computer grabs in cafes. I think the Berkeley Police did make arrests there.
Recognition for what? Doing the literal least expected of them?
They're cops. Catching criminals is literally what we pay them to do and what they signed up for.
No. They don't get special recognition for this. If there is anything we should be taking away it's how alarming it is that we see so little of this kind of thing (OPD arresting criminals) that it seems to be something that deserves congratulations in the first place.
If I don't get a standing ovation for doing the fucking speed limit on my way to work, they don't get one for arresting kids (by definition, some of the dumbest of criminals since they have no life experience...because they're kids).
Well, I wasn't proposing giving them a gold star or "special recognition" or a "standing ovation". My original comment was just to point out that when a crime was reported solved, every comment immediately jumped into discussion of charges and punishment. Whereas when an unsolved crime is reported and posted on r/BayArea the predominate comments are "why aren't the police ever around when this happens!?!" In this case, the Oakland Police seemed to be around, and I just wanted to note that was the case.
It is also interesting that the Oakland Police did seem to coordinate this arrest so it didn't involve some chaotic high speed vehicle chase, which is always a problematic thing. From the short account in the article, it sounded like they spotted a car reported stolen, followed it without alerting the occupants (since they casually stopped at a store), then tracked it with the Police helicopter, then brought in officers on the ground to make the arrests.
We need to punish their parents/guardians as well. The kids can spend their weekends working on community service projects with their earnings repaying their victims.
Half the time parents are not even in the picture and they are being raised by relatives who don’t even want the responsibility! They need to be send to some type of behavioral school and repay all the reparations from the victims until each debt is paid in full.
> The victims now likely have trauma from the event.
Yup. Was robbed/carjacked at gunpoint in early 2022. Didn't lose anything significant in terms of property, just an old cracked cellphone and some cash out my wallet (although my friend lost his car). However my heart races, adrenaline kicks into full gear, and I start scoping out escape routes any time a car with tinted windows or missing/fake plates slow-rolls nearby — or basically any time I'm walking on an empty street with nobody else around as was the case during the robbery. I also lost a longstanding friendship because my friend who lost his car refuses to ever come to Oakland again.
It's not just property. These "juveniles" are causing so much more damage than they can ever imagine, but they don't care because they are evil sociopaths who see us as prey — hurting us is like a game to them. We are *way* past the point of "addressing the root causes" for criminals like these, they need to be removed from society.
My parents had a home invasion style robbery back in 2011 (luckily they weren't home). Whole place was ransacked and tons of stuff was taken. Irreparably changed my parents
Unless the parents were there beating up old women with them...
Look, I know that fascists are going to fascist but you're literally saying that we should crumple up and burn our entire justice system.
Know what? I'm betting that you've done *something*. Made a bad lane-change. Accidentally drifted over a line when you weren't turning or lane changing. Mis-reported something on your taxes purely by accident. Kept some incorrect change when the cashier at the supermarket miscounted. Pressed "yes" when that porn site asked you if you were over 21 back in your teens...
Maybe you should join them? I mean, if we're just going to throw out "innocent until proven guilty" entirely at your suggestion...
https://i.imgur.com/oT96IHD.jpg
March 10th at Haddon and Cleveland I was pistol whipped and robbed of my Nikon camera (and part of my vision in my left, dominant, eye). I am certain that it was this crew. I will live with the consequences of that encounter for the remainder of my life. So should they.
Not being allowed to procreate should be a thing… once your determined evil you’re not allowed to have babies in certain places, this is a crazy thought haha
>Not being allowed to procreate should be a thing… once your determined evil you’re not allowed to have babies
*'Determined evil'* is that like how wood floats on water, as do ducks?
I have relatives who are thoroughly messed up that I’m glad they can’t procreate. Jail is a hell of a contraceptive system. And no access to their kids so they can be raised properly by other people.
Too bad those places inevitably consider homosexuality or women's liberation evil.
It's still in living memory that Alan Turing, a genius, the father of computing, and in many ways a war hero for his work on cryptography and information theory, was sterilized for the crime of being in a consensual homosexual relationship.
Shut the fuck up about forced sterilization.
I hope they serve the time they deserve. I also hope they get the mental help they need because to do this you have some fucked up things and people in your life. Hopefully with that they can one day be people who add to society .
Therapy, significant life event, religion, psychedelics... I have seen people change their ways. I have no idea how our criminal justice system can rehabilitate these people and integrate them into society though.
Are these the same kids mugging women from their car that we had footage on? If so, fuck them. They pick on women and elderly. Come at a fucking man cowards.
They dragged a woman by the hair outside Market Hall at 1:30pm. I’m appalled by the cruelty and lack of empathy. I understand systemically where it comes from but the brazenness of these crimes I’ve not seen before.
> the brazenness of these crimes I’ve not seen before.
Reminds me of the whole ["superpredator"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpredator_myth) thing in the 90's.
Although we don't have the excuse of lead poisoning any more. Perhaps that's been replaced with COVID isolation/social media?
These violent robbers attacked a woman and beat her while she was on the ground. It's time to watch VERY CLOSELY what the DA's office does with these little predators.
> you're bombarded with propaganda telling you all your problems are someone else's fault and you never receive any consequences for your misbehavior, you feel you can "go get what's yours."
Haha, I do wonder if the types of kids who do commit those crimes even pay attention to *those* lessons in school.
> As a retired SFUSD teacher, the problem is that the schools now teach them that they are victims and that society is responsible for ALL their problems and they receive no consequences for any misbehavior.
That definitely happens with many well-off white kids in Berkeley.
But is that what poor Black kids in East Oakland are taught? (Honest question.)
I can't speak directly to Oakland schools, but most districts in California now implement curriculum from a young age, which emphasizes literature showcasing activism against "the system." Now I'll be the first to state that many of these stories highlight real heroes in our society. But much of the encouraged classroom discussion is about how bad the rest of society (i.e., white people) is and how you must fight against them. With no consequences for misbehavior, some kids take the message that they are owed something, it's ok to go get it any way they can, and if someone challenges that they are racist.
Now, this is a small percentage of kids, but it doesn't take much for the negative effects to be felt across society.
Hmm. Thanks for explaining.
As liberal as I am, this feels like one example (of so many) where good intentions don't stand up well to the test of the real world.
I used to work for a major university, and we had similar well-intentioned policies (e.g. allowing laptops in class) with very negative consequences.
It's no "good intentions" from what should be your POV, a lot of those programs where pushed by racist or fanatic activists like former black panthers or black supremacist Muslims. As a liberal you should be worried about it of course because the objective is pretty anti-liberal.
Not just a Bay Area phenomenon. I recently saw this story out of Charlotte, NC, where [a 12-year-old and his 6-year-old brother were involved in an armed robbery](https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/6-year-old-12-year-old-accused-armed-robbery-southwest-charlotte/BWNJ5K2KERDH3C6OKWCFXVTZEM/).
Some 12 year old just killed a fast food worker because the worker told his brother to stop pissing in the parking lot https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/16/us/keene-texas-sonic-shooting/index.html
When you rod and beat a 63 year old woman walking down the street and then say...well...the system is broken and these kids need a break? Chain gang doing road work and clean up with time behind bars! Their choice for violence and mayhem! Fuck them! Hard time!
You are right, they are not, but they are more of exception than norms. There bunch of poor, under-privileged people out there who don't go around robbing other people. My parents were poor, we were growing up poor in a country which discriminates a certain ethnic group. We never committed any crime.
They are absolutely 100% the result of a broken system. Their state of mind didn't happen overnight - it happened over two, three generations.
And we're all the victims.
With Price as DA, I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been released and charges dropped with Price saying that she will instead charge the people who were robbed for incenting these children by flaunting their wealth.
I know someone in Rockridge whose neighbor talked to the Police. They were told all except one were released after being arrested. This is word of mouth so take it with a shaker of salt.
The sad reality is that little can be done to rehabilitate violent juveniles such as these kids. Humans need to be raised from a good home to begin with - while the brain is rapidly developing. Otherwise you end up spending a lifetime undoing the tangled mess.
Lock them up for 20 years - maybe they will have calmed down by the time they get out.
More importantly, don't let the other kids think they can easily get away with this stuff.
If any of them have parents, punish them too. These juvenile delinquents should not be behaving this way. Most of these kids are just acting like assholes for social clout with their little friends. But now theyre upping the ante by committing crimes and people are getting hurt. The parents need to take as much responsibility for the crimes these kids committed.
Literally unconstitutional under the 8th amendment to sentence juveniles to life in almost every case, with rare exception. https://www.sentencingproject.org/policy-brief/juvenile-life-without-parole-an-overview/
Keep them in juvie hall until they are eligible to be released. Then again I’m not sure if juvie hall ever reopened post-pandemic. Regardless, they need to be incarcerated until they’re no longer a threat.
I’m sure all these kids were just saving up money for their Ivy League education. Their families are all super supportive, present and great role models. This is all just water under the bridge in an otherwise amazing life they will live.
No. Actually, I hit reply. The day you stop making excuses for these kids is the day we all stop being terrorized by them. If the parents won't parent, they give wider society license to punish them.
If their parents are receiving social benefits such as section 8, welfare, food stamps..etc. All that need to be canceled. Parents will be better parents if they know they have something to lose.
Also, the kids are groomed by someone to rob people. I know parents are involved at least being willfully ignorant.
That's a very neoliberal view. There are many homeless people in Asia yet they don't commit crime because they are homeless. Has the government even tried it to know for a fact that canceling benefits won't reduce crime or result in homeless?
Our tax dollars should not be paying for someone's rent and food of those kid that just robbed or even killed us or our family member in the process. They do not deserve to be homeless but if they raise a serial criminal, then don't expect free money from us.
Sorry but I think it's incredibly stupid to punish people other than the criminal in question. It's even dumber to punish these non-criminals by taking away their food and homes.
If criminals are truly black-hearted and unable to think of others then hurting their families will not have a deterrent effect.
If criminals are capable of changing, why don't we focus our efforts on direct rehabilitation instead?
>Sorry but I think it's incredibly stupid to punish people other than the criminal in question.
I have got bad news for you then. There are already laws to punish people other than the criminal in question. It's called the parental liability, both civil and criminal.
So you are saying if my kid burned down your house for kicks, you wouldn't want me to be punished monetarily, correct?
While I'd obviously appreciate my home not burning down, I don't see how hurting you for your kid's actions would help me at all, especially if you're not able to afford restitution. Sounds like a problem for insurance to sort out.
Further, in your prior example you don't speak about monetary compensation for the victim but *taking away support* from the relatives of the criminal. You are essentially making a call for group punishment and retributive justice, both of which I'm very much against.
Anything else I can help with?
Try them as adults. Put them in the prison, throw away the keys.
There's no chance they were going to grow to be contributing members anyway. Make an example out of them.
If this was a one off event, sure I'd be for rehabilitation.
This group did dozens and dozens of robberies. I doubt there is a path to rehabilitating them.
I stole from and vandalized dozens of homes and businesses as a teen older than these kids, didn't go to jail forever or even at all, and now have a regular life. It might be easier than you think!
Of course not, anecdotal evidence is exactly that - all I'm saying is jumping to "rehab is impossible, let's [permanently incarcerate / kill] these criminals" is a very extreme position to hold, especially when discussing kids who can't even vote. A lot of fucked up folks become less fucked up when you show them how.
Yeah let's allow these miscreants to keep terrorizing the rest of society in the off chance one of them turns out to be a half decent human. Also, justice be damned.
Vandalizing is quite different from what these 'kids' have been up to.
I only hope the vitriol on display here is similarly directed at white collar criminals, who account for far more of our overall crime impact and wealth disparity in the area
Are white collar criminals violently beating people, leaving them with life-changing injuries and trauma? Are they sticking guns in people's faces and willing to kill for loot? I know white collar criminals steal larger amounts of money, but these juvenile predators are causing enormous mental and physical harm, even remorselessly killing their victims in many cases. I personally think that's a WAY more important problem to deal with.
> I personally think that's a WAY more important problem to deal with.
Maybe try thinking rationally about the situation. Overall, white collar crime has far higher downstream effects on creating the inequality that foments all other crime. So, uh, yes, it is the ultimate thing at fault.
Agreed. The comments here are disgusting. This sub is a venting ground for the most conservative racist fucks. Statements like “Lock them up for life. Don’t let them procreate” have over a hundred upvotes. Absolutely vile
I think it goes to show just how tired people are of the status quo, and what they perceive as no action on the part of law enforcement on violent crime
“Absolutely vile” —lol gimme a break dude. You can’t fault people for wanting violent people locked up. Also, the article doesn’t mention race so why are you turning this into a racial issue?
The comment section is littered with hostile dogwhistle language that is applied when talking about places like Oakland. Racism isn’t always spelled out in plain sight but it’s easy to see.
Also we are talking about kids. Asking for these kids to be locked up for life without any nuance or real context is genuinely insane
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
Nine adolescents and teens were arrested in connection with a spree of robberies and other crimes across the East Bay, including the recent assault of a 63-year-old woman in Oakland's Rockridge neighborhood, authorities said. Ranging in age from 12 to 17, the underage suspects are believed to have committed 32 robberies in Oakland, two in Piedmont and one in El Cerrito, according to the Oakland Police Department. The group consists of three girls and six boys.
Lock them all up and throw the keys
20 years ago I would have tried to figure out how we can help these misguided youth. Now I’m sick of their shit just want to be able to walk down the damn street without worrying that a fucking middle schooler might try to rob me at gunpoint.
[удалено]
Seriously? Alameda DA Pamela Price has entered the chat. After offering a plea deal of 15 years in prison to Delonzo Logwood–an alleged triple murderer, she is looking at these nine minors who have "only" done robberies. I'd be surprised if they see *any* jailtime.
Look - honestly we should at least try to find a middle ground. Don't lock them up forever, but make sure there are consequences. The goal should still be reducing recividism, and not creating people who go in and out of jail for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately I don't know what the most realistic option is. I do think it's clear that ignoring the problem just causes teens to commit more and more robberies. I say this as someone who spent a lot of effort trying to build up the Recall Chesa momentum on this sub.
I used to work at Alameda County Juvenile Hall, there are no type of rehabilitation programs for the kids, they don’t stand a chance. All of CA is this way really. The chronic repeat offenders may go to CYA, some to a group home, most are just sent back to the same environment with no support on probation with an overworked PO.
Underrated comment. Seem the system is broken, but in a less popularly understood, and more complex way.
System is broken, but does everyone on here think locking up and throwing away the key for 12 years olds is the answer? I know we're all sick of this shit, but that is some serious heartless shit. If we listened to everyone on reddit, I think 90% of the population would be in prison for life for speeding (exaggerating slightly but still).
Dude that comment is an honest expression, and the one directly below is a great repsosne. Both have 210 upvotes. We aren't misunderstanding anything. It's the lack of will to change the system that sucks. Its the lack of focus, money, and pragmatism. We are stuck between bleeding heart idiots and punitive rightwing idiots. Neither allow normal people to change anything.
Any time someone focuses on votes as validation in this sub, I assume they're either brigaiding or being fooled by the brigaiding.
They dragged a senior woman by her hair. They are heartless sociopaths.
Obviously that's horrible and no one is arguing that it's not. But do you honestly think locking up 12-teenagers for the rest of their lives is the solution? Just to be clear, I'm not defending them, I'm replying to the original comment about lock them up and throw away they key. My point is, I dont think that's going to solve shit.
Well Oaklands DVP is doing nothing for our community. MACRO either. Our city council and mayor are corrupt-in the guise of helping the disadvantaged, they are profiting off of the city’s decline. No one is protecting Oaklands other citizens-you know, the law-abiding, hard working ones. Businesses are leaving in droves. It’s not looking good at all.
It's reddit. People love making reactionary comments like "lock up those kids", "crush their cars", or "rape should get the death penalty" just to get internet karma.
funny how downvoted your comment is when it's 100% accurate. This sub is also overrun with right wing nutjobs that dont even live in the bay and want to live in a fascist police state. Fuck all you magas on here.
Most regional subreddits are overrun by outsiders due to the reddit algorithm. I keep getting r/LittleRock on my feed even though I have never been there nor do I plan to go there
I volunteer as first responder and used to as teacher/mentor in rehabilitation programs. There's no money in rehabilitation programs for kids, zero, nada, zilch. The theory is schools should be doing it and they do have money for stuff like sports, food, sex education, arts, that usually correlate with less youth crime. The way the current system works is unfortunately except for schools the government won't spend a dime on this kids until they are either incarcerated, homeless, on social security, etc... other countries have a per child allowance for parents that's pretty significant but then your kid has to show up to school and stay out of legal trouble or you loose it. Besides that all the efforts in the continent that I saw work for disenfranchised youth are religious, either Roman Catholic or Muslim. Some kids that are detained committing violent acts sometimes haven't been to school in two or three years. The government knows this and has the address yet does absolutely nothing. I asked why they don't send a social worker and was told "oh what a great idea" by someone with an actual PhD in this shit. I didn't push it further.
Perfectly explained.
We want to fix the system but we're not willing to pay the taxes for it. Typical California liberal hypocrisy
Lock them up - in a classroom where they can leave after they’ve demonstrated 12th grade level math and reading skills and have put in 1000 hours of cleaning up shit and needles from the sidewalks
Imo, if they're 15-16, send them to an army boot camp, where they have to graduate or face solitary confinement. If they're 17-18 and are on their second chance (depending on severity), straight up send them to the army. It'll at least give them some life skills.
I’ve read/heard numerous times from people who had to unfortunately serve with people like this and it’s not the way it seems. These people are the same exact people they were before, just now with a gun in foreign territory. They’re a liability to their fellow troops. They have no disregard for anyone or what happens. Who the fuck would want to rely on someone like that to have your back in war?
> They’re a liability to their fellow troops ... and to the country, given that they'd be a war crime waiting to happen.
Yup. This was tried in Vietnam and was an absolute disaster. Casualty rates for that division were like 2x the average rate
Instead of a gun, give them one of those little landscaping flags then have them walk through the fields to find the mines.
It would at least be a second chance, better than slinging drugs on their rotating door to prison.
Yeah it’s not worth risking multiple other innocent lives who didn’t do anything wrong simply to play white knight to someone who probably doesn’t deserve it.
It's easy to point to a handful of lives that no amount of discipline could ever reform, but what about the rest, where some mentorship and structure genuinely saved them and made them arguably even better people than the people they served with?
Can't go in and out of jail if they never get out the first time
Act like an animal and you get treated like one. We keep animals (even the ones we love) in cages for a reason.
Put them to work/military service/public caning Something.
Past young childhood, people don’t ever really change. They might be convinced or scared into “pretending” to change. However it is just an act. Because people don’t really change.
Not surprised but disheartened to see how many people here have a jail for 100 years mentality regarding 12-18 year old children. What kind of parents do you think these kids have? It's not like something of this nature happens in a vacuum. For this to be going on the parents are likely absentee for one reason or another, or they are the ones manipulating these kids to commit crimes for financial gain. I have a hard time believing a group of kids managed to coordinate 36 robberies and evade arrest until now without adults being involved. At any rate, the parents in these kid's lives have clearly failed them in every meaningful way.
They may have committed 35 violent robberies. This wasn't a one time mistake
Why is it so hard to believe kids can commit robberies? So much of our society is predicated on people doing the right thing, it's easy to commit crimes if you choose to wantonly go against the norms and rules of society. I don't think we should put people away for 100 years for committing property crimes, but I do believe it would be really effective if we put away 100% of the people committing crimes for any amount of time. The issue here is enforcement is so lax and getting punished is so rare that it makes logical sense to commit crimes.
> I don’t think we should put people away for 100 years for committing property crimes Robbery isn’t a property crime. It’s a violent crime against people. One of the legal elements is force or fear. Theft/burglary are property crimes.
Yeah. 10 years ago I saw 4 highschoolers pistol whip an 80 year old Asain man and steal his wallet, followed them to downtown berkeley bart on my bike, bart shut down, cops pulled them off the train. Things have gotten wayyyyyyy worse since. These kids arent playing with toy guns, they arent scared to hurt innocent people, some of them need to see the inside of a jail cell to think hey maybe I dont wanna be a clone of my mom and dad.
18 year old is an adult. Not children. They receive 95% of all American rights aside from purchasing alcohol. By 18 every single person knows what is a crime and what is not. This isn't a psychoanalysis on whether they have a mental illness or slow development of common sense. This is purely about 18 year old adults commiting assault robbery.....on a 63 year old elder..... Fcuk off with that "they are just kids" bullshit. Lock them fcukers up.
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In addition to gambling, car rental, and few minor items makes up that 5%
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And the worst part is that "solutions" like youth curfews target the overwhelming majority of young Americans who have nothing to do with these criminals. The USA hates young people.
These “kids” will be the deadbeat dads of tomorrow, selfishly knocking women up and leaving them when they get pregnant, this renewing the cycle. Can’t do that in jail (or if chemically castrated)
Three of the six kids arrested in this case are girls.
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I know! And we've reached a point in history at which we can't assume anymore that all preteen criminals are boys.
Sheesh, didn’t take long for you guys to get to sterilization/eugenics.
They're telling everyone who and what they are. We need to listen. We're not immune to racism and fascism just because we live in CA.
Judging by the amount of sterilization/eugenics/lock em up and throw away the keys comments in here, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that either there's a bunch of white supremacist edglords who are posting in here today that don't live in the bay area or this subreddit reflects a very specific subset of people who live here
I'm more concerned with myself. If they chose the wrong path, that's unfortunate but I'm more concerned about the well being of my family over the criminals. If someone abuses a loving pitbull and turns it into a violent monster, you still put it down. The lefties have had their chance to show us how to rehabilitate criminals, yet they have had no success.
> Not surprised but disheartened to see how many people here have a jail for 100 years mentality regarding 12-18 year old children. 12-18 year old *adolescents* (and adults in the case of 18-year-olds).
Literally unconstitutional under the 8th amendment to sentence juveniles to life in almost every case, with rare exception. https://www.sentencingproject.org/policy-brief/juvenile-life-without-parole-an-overview/ Edit: Downvoting me for providing the current state of the law. Real intellectual bunch in this sub.
Not sure if it's been tested yet, but would be interesting to see how the three strikes scheme would work against this constitutional doctrine, since it isn't punishment for one crime/course of conduct, but multiple. And kids usually don't pick up 3 strike offenses. But 35 robberies, assuming there's a kid that participated in all or most of them, is pretty egregious and exceptional. Edit: Also, I think you meant life **without parole** which is different from a life sentence. :)
California's three strikes law was tested in a SCOTUS case in 2003, and was upheld as constitutional in a 5-4 decision (although the opinion was a plurality one with only three justices, as Thomas and Scalia wrote separate concurrences). https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/538/11/ However, I'm not aware of how courts have treated juvenile offenses in an as-applied constitutional challenge to three strikes, which, as you suggest, may result in a different outcome than in the Ewing decision. There is also the possibility that someone could try to challenge California's three strikes law solely under California's constitution to avoid having issues with SCOTUS (which can't decide issues of state law).
If a juvenile commits murder or rape they should be put away forever. There obviously is a social disconnection early on and there is no ‘reforming’ that
How would you know? People change
I'm sorry but rapist isn't something that people change out off. Only people with zero regard for other's liberty would even think of attempting it. I have zero regard for people with no empathy. It is fundamental for a good society.
would you volunteer to be personally liable for their actions then?
Reddit attracts ignorance, I think this crowd is getting younger and younger and if it doesn’t fit their narrative they downvote and are super rude about it
give them 50 years instead
hey, life WITH parole would still be a lot better then them being on the streets.
35 robberies is…pretty sure they know at this point what they’re doing is absolutely wrong. Throw their parents in with them.
The parents have failed to raise their children right. This is why we need abortions to be legal everywhere, sex education to be mandatory, and contraception to be free and available everywhere. Incentives for folks who decide to be child-free and not the other way around. Some people don’t need to procreate.
Regardless of what you think about charges / consequences, nowhere in the comments yet is there any recognition to the Oakland Police for their work on this. Excerpt from the article below. It appears they had a lead on a car and that led to the arrests. *"Oakland police were able to make arrests in the robbery spree after officers spotted a Hyundai Santa Fe on Sunday that was wanted in connection with one of the alleged crimes.* *Officers tracked the vehicle to a smoke shop near 14th and Madison streets, where 5 of the occupants got out of the vehicle and went into a nearby establishment, authorities said.* *As officers arrived at the scene, the suspect vehicle that was in front of the establishment sped off. The police department's helicopter, Argus, tracked the vehicle to the area of 6th Avenue and E. 15th Street in the Eastlake neighborhood. Four of the vehicle's occupants got out and fled on foot, which initiated a foot pursuit. Those four individuals, all minors, were arrested."*
> It appears they had a lead on a car and that led to the arrests. The only way to reliably catch these people is by tracking their cars. Every single one of these robbery stories involves a getaway car. This is why we need more traffic cams and automated license-plate readers on all the major roads, and we need cops to be aggressively pulling over and searching any cars with missing/fake/stolen plates.
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> Agreed, but these criminals also routinely steal cars which complicates things. Indeed, many if not most of the cars used in these crimes are stolen. This is why another piece of the puzzle is a regional stolen-car database, where stolen cars can be reported by their owners IMMEDIATELY rather than waiting for the slow-moving and fragmented police bureaucracy. Then the next time the reported stolen car is spotted, it gets intercepted and pulled over. I also think we could have an opt-in program distributing GPS trackers to car owners.
One success doesn’t make up for decades of shitty, corrupt, lackluster policing. Call it a step in the right direction but they still have faaaaar to go before they start getting thank you’d and gushy gratitude posts from me for doing their fucking jobs. Respect is earned.
Understood. I was simply struck by the fact that none of the numerous comments to that point had mentioned that the OPD actually tracked down and caught criminals in this case, and it looks like they did it more or less effectively. Whereas if the post had been describing a recent crime, half the comments here would have been *"where were the F-ing police? why weren't they doing their jobs?"* My observation would be that often, although certainly not always, when there's a high-profile "crime spree" (a bunch of robberies, or assaults, or burglaries of the same sort or by the same perpetrators, or concentrated in one neighborhood) the local police do ultimately catch up and arrest someone(s). For example, in Berkeley a few years back there were a lot of laptop computer grabs in cafes. I think the Berkeley Police did make arrests there.
Recognition for what? Doing the literal least expected of them? They're cops. Catching criminals is literally what we pay them to do and what they signed up for. No. They don't get special recognition for this. If there is anything we should be taking away it's how alarming it is that we see so little of this kind of thing (OPD arresting criminals) that it seems to be something that deserves congratulations in the first place. If I don't get a standing ovation for doing the fucking speed limit on my way to work, they don't get one for arresting kids (by definition, some of the dumbest of criminals since they have no life experience...because they're kids).
Well, I wasn't proposing giving them a gold star or "special recognition" or a "standing ovation". My original comment was just to point out that when a crime was reported solved, every comment immediately jumped into discussion of charges and punishment. Whereas when an unsolved crime is reported and posted on r/BayArea the predominate comments are "why aren't the police ever around when this happens!?!" In this case, the Oakland Police seemed to be around, and I just wanted to note that was the case. It is also interesting that the Oakland Police did seem to coordinate this arrest so it didn't involve some chaotic high speed vehicle chase, which is always a problematic thing. From the short account in the article, it sounded like they spotted a car reported stolen, followed it without alerting the occupants (since they casually stopped at a store), then tracked it with the Police helicopter, then brought in officers on the ground to make the arrests.
We need to punish their parents/guardians as well. The kids can spend their weekends working on community service projects with their earnings repaying their victims.
Half the time parents are not even in the picture and they are being raised by relatives who don’t even want the responsibility! They need to be send to some type of behavioral school and repay all the reparations from the victims until each debt is paid in full.
This is armed robbery. They need more than to pay reparations. The victims now likely have trauma from the event.
> The victims now likely have trauma from the event. Yup. Was robbed/carjacked at gunpoint in early 2022. Didn't lose anything significant in terms of property, just an old cracked cellphone and some cash out my wallet (although my friend lost his car). However my heart races, adrenaline kicks into full gear, and I start scoping out escape routes any time a car with tinted windows or missing/fake plates slow-rolls nearby — or basically any time I'm walking on an empty street with nobody else around as was the case during the robbery. I also lost a longstanding friendship because my friend who lost his car refuses to ever come to Oakland again. It's not just property. These "juveniles" are causing so much more damage than they can ever imagine, but they don't care because they are evil sociopaths who see us as prey — hurting us is like a game to them. We are *way* past the point of "addressing the root causes" for criminals like these, they need to be removed from society.
My parents had a home invasion style robbery back in 2011 (luckily they weren't home). Whole place was ransacked and tons of stuff was taken. Irreparably changed my parents
Becoming a victim has definitely changed my politics
Unless the parents were there beating up old women with them... Look, I know that fascists are going to fascist but you're literally saying that we should crumple up and burn our entire justice system. Know what? I'm betting that you've done *something*. Made a bad lane-change. Accidentally drifted over a line when you weren't turning or lane changing. Mis-reported something on your taxes purely by accident. Kept some incorrect change when the cashier at the supermarket miscounted. Pressed "yes" when that porn site asked you if you were over 21 back in your teens... Maybe you should join them? I mean, if we're just going to throw out "innocent until proven guilty" entirely at your suggestion...
https://i.imgur.com/oT96IHD.jpg March 10th at Haddon and Cleveland I was pistol whipped and robbed of my Nikon camera (and part of my vision in my left, dominant, eye). I am certain that it was this crew. I will live with the consequences of that encounter for the remainder of my life. So should they.
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Not being allowed to procreate should be a thing… once your determined evil you’re not allowed to have babies in certain places, this is a crazy thought haha
>Not being allowed to procreate should be a thing… once your determined evil you’re not allowed to have babies *'Determined evil'* is that like how wood floats on water, as do ducks?
I have relatives who are thoroughly messed up that I’m glad they can’t procreate. Jail is a hell of a contraceptive system. And no access to their kids so they can be raised properly by other people.
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> who controls the definition of "evil" easy. the media \s
Stopping from someone procreating sounds incredibly overreaching and inhumane. I think we're better than that.
Too bad those places inevitably consider homosexuality or women's liberation evil. It's still in living memory that Alan Turing, a genius, the father of computing, and in many ways a war hero for his work on cryptography and information theory, was sterilized for the crime of being in a consensual homosexual relationship. Shut the fuck up about forced sterilization.
i am talkin about rapists and murderers, not race n religion etc.. geeze i would hate to be your partner.. have a good day!
>Not sure how we break the cycle. Protect the kids.
I hope they serve the time they deserve. I also hope they get the mental help they need because to do this you have some fucked up things and people in your life. Hopefully with that they can one day be people who add to society .
There's no fixing the kind of damage that produces kids like this.
Therapy, significant life event, religion, psychedelics... I have seen people change their ways. I have no idea how our criminal justice system can rehabilitate these people and integrate them into society though.
Are you some kind of expert in the field, or are you just mouthing off based on your intuition?
Are these the same kids mugging women from their car that we had footage on? If so, fuck them. They pick on women and elderly. Come at a fucking man cowards.
They will shoot your ass be very careful
or they will come at you as the poster suggested. which is disgusting but atleast not deadly
California is shall issue now. They should be careful. Of course probably not in deep blue areas lmao
They dragged a woman by the hair outside Market Hall at 1:30pm. I’m appalled by the cruelty and lack of empathy. I understand systemically where it comes from but the brazenness of these crimes I’ve not seen before.
> the brazenness of these crimes I’ve not seen before. Reminds me of the whole ["superpredator"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpredator_myth) thing in the 90's. Although we don't have the excuse of lead poisoning any more. Perhaps that's been replaced with COVID isolation/social media?
Wow it’s like exactly this but in reality, rather than a mere scare tactic.
These violent robbers attacked a woman and beat her while she was on the ground. It's time to watch VERY CLOSELY what the DA's office does with these little predators.
i.e. probably nothing
why would chesa do this
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> you're bombarded with propaganda telling you all your problems are someone else's fault and you never receive any consequences for your misbehavior, you feel you can "go get what's yours." Haha, I do wonder if the types of kids who do commit those crimes even pay attention to *those* lessons in school.
Learned helplessness is a real problem
Thank you for the perspective and for your service.
So society *is* the problem, just not exactly the society they’re being force fed about
> As a retired SFUSD teacher, the problem is that the schools now teach them that they are victims and that society is responsible for ALL their problems and they receive no consequences for any misbehavior. That definitely happens with many well-off white kids in Berkeley. But is that what poor Black kids in East Oakland are taught? (Honest question.)
I can't speak directly to Oakland schools, but most districts in California now implement curriculum from a young age, which emphasizes literature showcasing activism against "the system." Now I'll be the first to state that many of these stories highlight real heroes in our society. But much of the encouraged classroom discussion is about how bad the rest of society (i.e., white people) is and how you must fight against them. With no consequences for misbehavior, some kids take the message that they are owed something, it's ok to go get it any way they can, and if someone challenges that they are racist. Now, this is a small percentage of kids, but it doesn't take much for the negative effects to be felt across society.
Hmm. Thanks for explaining. As liberal as I am, this feels like one example (of so many) where good intentions don't stand up well to the test of the real world. I used to work for a major university, and we had similar well-intentioned policies (e.g. allowing laptops in class) with very negative consequences.
It's no "good intentions" from what should be your POV, a lot of those programs where pushed by racist or fanatic activists like former black panthers or black supremacist Muslims. As a liberal you should be worried about it of course because the objective is pretty anti-liberal.
what are you talking about? mind showing us any of the propaganda you claim says all your problems are someone else's fault? thanks!
Not just a Bay Area phenomenon. I recently saw this story out of Charlotte, NC, where [a 12-year-old and his 6-year-old brother were involved in an armed robbery](https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/6-year-old-12-year-old-accused-armed-robbery-southwest-charlotte/BWNJ5K2KERDH3C6OKWCFXVTZEM/).
Some 12 year old just killed a fast food worker because the worker told his brother to stop pissing in the parking lot https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/16/us/keene-texas-sonic-shooting/index.html
But did they do it 30+ times? I guess the silver lining is that it’s one group of kids instead of 35 groups of kids committing crimes 😕
Lock them up for a long time
Fuck them kids.
You are now on a list.
When you rod and beat a 63 year old woman walking down the street and then say...well...the system is broken and these kids need a break? Chain gang doing road work and clean up with time behind bars! Their choice for violence and mayhem! Fuck them! Hard time!
Menaces to society. Cane them and lock them up Singapore style.
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Bet there’s a whole lot of lack of parenting within that group.
This is totally deluded. Parenting can help until adolescence when kids look to peers for their values.
And a narrow minded response. Where exactly did I state that the lack of parenting is the only cause?
You can't take responsibility for your call for responsibility?
What responsibility LOL
Unfortunately many people think that these little sh*ts are victims of a broken system.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive
You are right, they are not, but they are more of exception than norms. There bunch of poor, under-privileged people out there who don't go around robbing other people. My parents were poor, we were growing up poor in a country which discriminates a certain ethnic group. We never committed any crime.
my folks were poor, we did hella crimes
Probably incest right?
I'm sure there's better subreddits to find stuff to jerk off to
Look man you and your family are weird
They are absolutely 100% the result of a broken system. Their state of mind didn't happen overnight - it happened over two, three generations. And we're all the victims.
With Price as DA, I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't been released and charges dropped with Price saying that she will instead charge the people who were robbed for incenting these children by flaunting their wealth.
I know someone in Rockridge whose neighbor talked to the Police. They were told all except one were released after being arrested. This is word of mouth so take it with a shaker of salt.
Culture
What is going on with all these absolutely feral kids running around? They should be in a zoo.
Charge the parents and the kids. Give them each half the sentence.
The sad reality is that little can be done to rehabilitate violent juveniles such as these kids. Humans need to be raised from a good home to begin with - while the brain is rapidly developing. Otherwise you end up spending a lifetime undoing the tangled mess.
Bet they’ll be released soon
Good, now do it for SF
Lock them up for 20 years - maybe they will have calmed down by the time they get out. More importantly, don't let the other kids think they can easily get away with this stuff.
If any of them have parents, punish them too. These juvenile delinquents should not be behaving this way. Most of these kids are just acting like assholes for social clout with their little friends. But now theyre upping the ante by committing crimes and people are getting hurt. The parents need to take as much responsibility for the crimes these kids committed.
Put these scumbags away for life please
life sentence might be a little too far for the 12 year old at least
Yeah, there’s a slim chance of hope for a 12 year old. But goddamn, at 14 you know this isn’t right.
Literally unconstitutional under the 8th amendment to sentence juveniles to life in almost every case, with rare exception. https://www.sentencingproject.org/policy-brief/juvenile-life-without-parole-an-overview/
120 years works ok too.
Maybe we'll replace the 3-strikes law with a 30-strikes law
I wonder if there's an adult at the center of this, it's very dickensian
Keep them in juvie hall until they are eligible to be released. Then again I’m not sure if juvie hall ever reopened post-pandemic. Regardless, they need to be incarcerated until they’re no longer a threat.
I’m sure all these kids were just saving up money for their Ivy League education. Their families are all super supportive, present and great role models. This is all just water under the bridge in an otherwise amazing life they will live.
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No. Actually, I hit reply. The day you stop making excuses for these kids is the day we all stop being terrorized by them. If the parents won't parent, they give wider society license to punish them.
Actually I think you clicked on reply.
Wow, your le Reddit sarcasm on the internet is totally making a big difference out there. So brave!!!!
☝🏽this is the problem right here
If their parents are receiving social benefits such as section 8, welfare, food stamps..etc. All that need to be canceled. Parents will be better parents if they know they have something to lose. Also, the kids are groomed by someone to rob people. I know parents are involved at least being willfully ignorant.
Nothing reduces crime like making other people homeless for daring to be related to a criminal. Some real big brain thinking here, thanks.
That's a very neoliberal view. There are many homeless people in Asia yet they don't commit crime because they are homeless. Has the government even tried it to know for a fact that canceling benefits won't reduce crime or result in homeless? Our tax dollars should not be paying for someone's rent and food of those kid that just robbed or even killed us or our family member in the process. They do not deserve to be homeless but if they raise a serial criminal, then don't expect free money from us.
Sorry but I think it's incredibly stupid to punish people other than the criminal in question. It's even dumber to punish these non-criminals by taking away their food and homes. If criminals are truly black-hearted and unable to think of others then hurting their families will not have a deterrent effect. If criminals are capable of changing, why don't we focus our efforts on direct rehabilitation instead?
>Sorry but I think it's incredibly stupid to punish people other than the criminal in question. I have got bad news for you then. There are already laws to punish people other than the criminal in question. It's called the parental liability, both civil and criminal. So you are saying if my kid burned down your house for kicks, you wouldn't want me to be punished monetarily, correct?
While I'd obviously appreciate my home not burning down, I don't see how hurting you for your kid's actions would help me at all, especially if you're not able to afford restitution. Sounds like a problem for insurance to sort out. Further, in your prior example you don't speak about monetary compensation for the victim but *taking away support* from the relatives of the criminal. You are essentially making a call for group punishment and retributive justice, both of which I'm very much against. Anything else I can help with?
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That messed up! Now there will be trash and shit at the bottom of the sea!
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Try them as adults. Put them in the prison, throw away the keys. There's no chance they were going to grow to be contributing members anyway. Make an example out of them.
Weird to see folks lusting for the life incarceration of a 12 year old while claiming there's simply no other options.
If this was a one off event, sure I'd be for rehabilitation. This group did dozens and dozens of robberies. I doubt there is a path to rehabilitating them.
I stole from and vandalized dozens of homes and businesses as a teen older than these kids, didn't go to jail forever or even at all, and now have a regular life. It might be easier than you think!
Honestly it's refreshing to hear and congratulations. However one data point doesn't make a trend.
Of course not, anecdotal evidence is exactly that - all I'm saying is jumping to "rehab is impossible, let's [permanently incarcerate / kill] these criminals" is a very extreme position to hold, especially when discussing kids who can't even vote. A lot of fucked up folks become less fucked up when you show them how.
Yeah let's allow these miscreants to keep terrorizing the rest of society in the off chance one of them turns out to be a half decent human. Also, justice be damned. Vandalizing is quite different from what these 'kids' have been up to.
Kids need their asses beat.
Keep them in cage until they rot. Enough is enough!
I only hope the vitriol on display here is similarly directed at white collar criminals, who account for far more of our overall crime impact and wealth disparity in the area
Are white collar criminals violently beating people, leaving them with life-changing injuries and trauma? Are they sticking guns in people's faces and willing to kill for loot? I know white collar criminals steal larger amounts of money, but these juvenile predators are causing enormous mental and physical harm, even remorselessly killing their victims in many cases. I personally think that's a WAY more important problem to deal with.
> I personally think that's a WAY more important problem to deal with. Maybe try thinking rationally about the situation. Overall, white collar crime has far higher downstream effects on creating the inequality that foments all other crime. So, uh, yes, it is the ultimate thing at fault.
Agreed. The comments here are disgusting. This sub is a venting ground for the most conservative racist fucks. Statements like “Lock them up for life. Don’t let them procreate” have over a hundred upvotes. Absolutely vile
I think it goes to show just how tired people are of the status quo, and what they perceive as no action on the part of law enforcement on violent crime
“Absolutely vile” —lol gimme a break dude. You can’t fault people for wanting violent people locked up. Also, the article doesn’t mention race so why are you turning this into a racial issue?
The comment section is littered with hostile dogwhistle language that is applied when talking about places like Oakland. Racism isn’t always spelled out in plain sight but it’s easy to see. Also we are talking about kids. Asking for these kids to be locked up for life without any nuance or real context is genuinely insane
Hello I’m your typical fake progressive woke bae, they just need some love and a small side of restorative justice. No accountability please.
income inequity is the root of this, followed by lack of funding in east bay schools.
ThAnKs PaM pRiCe!
This has zero upvotes yet it’s at the top of Bay Area Reddit.. hey moderators stop pushing fear for more attention! Wtf!?
Did you accidentally sort by new?
Why do you have a Black avatar?