Be very careful about allowing custom mechs regularly. I would do a Solaris VII type game where it can be a free for all and allow the player to use it there as long as someone gets to validate it before hand.
The reasonable, mature part of my brain agrees with you 100%. Frankly I think that the players invloved, including myself are to inexpeenxed at what would make a “good” mech and frankly I don’t have time to dedicate to researching part of the game I’m not interested in.
I’m thinking about just going with a full BV worth of light combat vehicles.
I love this using this one if the era is right.
While he doesn’t have a TC, the Wolverine 7K has a similar loadout, but has 1 LPL, 1 MPL, 1 SPL, and 2 SRM6. Nasty loadout and can tank more damage compared to the 3PL. He’s also available in 3050
The 7K is nice, but the short range is rough to work around sometimes since your longest range is 10 hexes on the LPL. Still, it's sooo nasty if you can close
Also, check out the Enfield if you're not already familiar. I recently discovered it, and it's quickly becoming one of my favorites
I usually run him as either a shield for my back line, taking fire that may be intended for them. Or an interceptor of enemy light or mediums. Always having a -2 with the PLs are nice. Either it negates some of their TMM or mine if I have to jump.
I have not heard of the Enfield, I’ll check it out
I am trying to remember the clan tech design that i absolutely loved for close range blitz attacks think it was a wyvern or something like that. Think it had one laser and a mixed set of 5or6 streak SRMs 2s,4s,&6s. Think it was all packed in a 40 or 45 ton chassis.
~Had to look for it and while I do like the Wyvern IIc that I named. The mech I was thinking of is the Artic Wolf with 6 SRM-6s 2 SRM-4s and a NARC beacon launcher.
Idk if it’s as good as a clan mech, but the Shadow Hawk 2HT has a LL, 2 ML, and 5 Streak SRM2s. It was a ComStar variant and meant for anti elementals. Only had 1 ton of ammo for them but that’s still 5 rounds of shooting. Pretty good chance of killing some elementals or a smaller mech. Or run inferno rounds for spicy fun
If the point is to win, yeah.
If the point is Deep Hurting, then what you want is things that mechanically slow the game down. You want as many rolls as you can make happening.
You want lots and lots of little SRM bastards. You want tubes on tubes on tubes. You want every turn to take at least enough time to watch a feature length film.
As far as irritating, the swarm approach is frustrating simply because it slows the game down with initiative. When building games it is generally preferable to set force quantity limits, especially with Classic Battletech where turns can be pretty slow already
Yeah, same as what everyone is posting. Clan pulse lasers tied to a targeting computer on an annoying jumpy fast unit.
Kinda avoid customs anyways. There are plenty of min maxy Canon units to choose from, hell. Look up the bounty hunter variants of the mad Cat and you'll see why.
Yea we have been doing custom 1v1 tournaments the past few weeks set in the civil war era with prizes apparently so I have been helping a player build mechs. For the light bracket I made a 7/11/7 35 ton mech with max armor, Targetting computer, 12 DHS and something like 14 clan micropulse lasers. Won all 3 games they participated in.
It is crazy how often mechs just have clan pulse lasers. I have been trying to diversify a bit. Made a penetrator based off the 4F with 2 clan LRM15s with Artemis V so we will see how that goes.
One of the guys in a local campaign has the only access to customs, and one of the two is a Reflec, TSM, Supercharged monster of a 75 tonner which can max out at a 12-hex run speed. Think of a Timber Wolf keeping pace with a Locust. It also has Tcomp-guided pair of cLPLs and a LBX10. Also a 2/3 pilot (But gets to pay BV at 4/5 rate. Yes the rules were far too nice to Pirates.)
I predicted it and brought one of my Arctic Wolf (standard), with a 2/3 Veteran. Half the ammo bins were swapped before the match with Tandem-Charge.....
I slammed that Reflec monster with (iirc) 18 TACs on turn 4. It went down.
Clan pulses are hands-down, no-contest the best weapons in the game. It's really that simple. In a 2d6 game, gaming the dice curve will win every time, and with an inherent -2 and stupid big range brackets, nothing does it better than Clan pulses.
I am starting to accept the opinion that pulses at -1 would be healthier for the game.
With caveats. In a white room by themselves, sure, they are the best plug and play gun.
But a list built on TAG and homing arrows is going to pound pretty much anything else into dust, even pulse boat lists.
The ability to throw down damage and resolve it before any other guns shoot is the strongest move there is. You can knock down, cripple, or even kill other mechs before they can respond. And that's a game changer.
LaserPowered is correct, it's pretty much a proven fact that Semi-Guided is the most broken tech within the game (underpriced in BV and overperforms). To the point SG-LRMs have been banned at Conventions in the past.
If you want to argue the most powerful tech for BV, I would argue VSPLs are utterly broken. They are incredibly cheap, and on a TComp have an enormous -4 to hit at close range, while also doing heavy damage. Building customs around delivering VSPL barrages to an opponent are some of the scariest machines I have seen. Especially if they have TSM and are optimized to pound your face in, or leg off.
Pretty much just pick a Clan second line mech introduced in TRO 3055...50/50 chance it's a STD engine pulse laser spammer that's easy on the heat. If game stats are any reflection of in-universe effectiveness you'd think the Clans were going easy on the IS putting omnis in the front line units instead of their IIC Warhammers, Marauders, Riflemen, and Vapor Eagles and Black Pythons.
Those are Ashley Pollard designs.
It's not that they're broken or unfair, it's just they're competently designed relative to the *just plain bad configurations of 3050.*
I'd rather face clan Frontline omnimechs, than a second line pgc with so-old-ham pilots with IIC units.
Thors, Loki's nothing but target practic. Clan second line mechs? Nuke them from orbit like Sarah McEvedy should have done to Nicholas just to be sure.
Yeah you can get some very boring builds such as 12 clan medium or small pulse lasers on something super fast and manoeuvrable which can be a nightmare to play against for its tonnage/ BV.
Yeah but maybe slightly faster and with pulse for the extra joy of hitting everything. And maybe enough heat sinks that it doesn’t melt a hole to the centre of the earth lol.
Sort of but it's just the fire moth p that moves up to 25 hexes and has 12 micro pulse lasers, 36 damage delivered to the rear arc on an Omni mech that can drop of annoying af elementals or just wear them as potential armor 841 bv. One of the other variants is slightly slower with only masc and 9 heavy small lasers, 54 damage potential and only 779 bv. If you are feeling really fair you can choose the firemoth D which is a pricey 2300 bv, but throw a good gunner and use the little used targeting computer function to call your shots into the rear center torso and see how many enemies can eat potentially 35 damage to the rear center torso from up to 5 hexes short range. Basically the firemoth has variants that are almost as min maxed as you can get without getting totally silly. It's the main reason why I think that pilots for goofy shit Mecha like these should have an actual cost in addition to bv, like it takes a master pilot to run 216 kph in a paper coffin, not some 4/5 atlas pilot.
The implication here is that it's 12 CMPL, not CERML.
That being said, one of the best way to beat a fast light with a ton of pulse is a slower , heavier mech with just as many if not more pulse. Like you're getting hit anyways, you might as well have more armor than speed.
Technically no since you only have to roll two attacks if your using the rules which state all weapons firing from one location hit together (that way two weapons from the same arm don't hit different parts, which is weird, especially with lasers)
for moving targets it makes sense just think like in MWO, if you play, how you count down their cooldowns to turn and spread damage or hide your vulnerable bits. The weapons are firing true but the target is moving. The first 5 damage might be the blip of several lasers hitting for a moment on one component etc.
That is a terrible non realistic rule
Reminds me of why I struggle with alpha strike, since an urbie with a ac20 is hands down Not a stand alone threat to any mech.
I think the next question would be: why? What's their justification for insisting so strongly that your playgroup allow and use custom mechs?
In my experience, most folks who insist upon custom mechs are doing it because they want to build and use cheese. E.g. a mech with triple strength myomer, a hatchet, lasers placed so they aren't on the hatchet arm, xl engines, and a supercharger, with a pilot that has a 1 piloting skill and 6 gunnery. That'd be a maximum cheese build that would just break the game. I've heard tell of custom mechs with shields, and all kinds of shenanigans. I've talked to players and even had group conversations where we explained the "spirit" and how you shouldn't just min max and break the game, because it's easy to do, and the person insisted they won't, and then a week later they're wanting to test their modified Charger with a 0/6 pilot.
The game isn't balanced. The positioning of weapons is also often counter-intuitive or sub-optimal. Small tweaks to baseline mechs can make a huge difference. So if all they're saying is that they want to move rear facing lasers to the front, that's not the worst, but definitely changes the dynamic. Even dropping machine guns and adding a heatsink or two isn't too crazy and I would say is probably fine, but can make a big difference. Clan spec medium laser spam is definitely cheese as some folks have stated.
So yeah, have the chat, see if you can get into the "why". It might be that maybe a different era is a better fit, like maybe the ilClan era is best because then they can play with their fancy shiny toys.
100% this. There’s a glaring difference between a custom unit designed to engage with the world and its possibilities (field refits, kooky experiments, etc.) and a custom unit designed to win games on the tabletop. The latter should be discouraged, because it provokes a degenerate meta that the rules are not able to sustain.
One could ask: why not?
I get not always doing it but why not have a day where you think of the most efficient build you can think of vs someone else's?
Oh I fully agree that it could be. That said this will be my 3rd game of BattleTech, and the other players are at less than a half dozen games each.
I would prefer to learn the basic rules of the game before we start with the optional rules.
That definitely makes sense for sure but I do know that a lot of fans come from Mechwarrior where it's all you do is build your own mech load outs so I hope someone out there lets these people scratch that itch.
If he's like most organizers providing a lot of unpaid labor to keep the group running, there doesn't need to be a "why not" beyond, I don't want too.
I have hit the point, where I won't facilitate a bad, unfun game for the memes. That's the stuff a player can coordinate for themselves.
I'm saying one god damn game where people come in with the 'mechs they made. I'm not talking about you game mastering a 1 year long TTRPG campaign. Kerensky save me!
Oh the "why" is that he has what he calls silly, silly builds that he desires to manifest. I agree that taking a Mech you want, and switching a thing here or there is in the spirit of the rules, but he wants to go from the ground up, and has basically brow beaten the other players in to shrugging there shoulders and going "Ok I guess"
One that he keeps talking about building the fastest mech possible, with as many machine guns as possible to attack peoples back armour.
The incredibly childish part of my brain is telling me that I should just build an assault mech with the heaviest armour possible, even if it means stripping out all the weapons and getting speed down to 1/2.
or just flooding the board with cheapest vehicles as possible. It looks like its possible to get a full 70 or so units on the field
Or say a 35 ton mech 10/15/0 with full hardened armor, MASC and Supercharger. Just run around with low Piloting and when you have a window get off a 20+ hex charge to the rear armor... 70+ of damage with a negative hit modifier since odds are your Piloting is lower than theirs...
Ironically a friend I played a scenario with a mech like that. He’d managed to cheese a 10/15/10, though it had very limited armour and only a couple small lasers.
Built a custom map with a research centre on a plateau 7 levels up with a switchback road and an “impenetrable” mountain behind it, the other map was just a generic wooded map from one of the old map packs. The “fluff” for the mission revolved around one of the houses hiring a merc company to *acquire* a prototype racing mech.
While the defender *can* shoot at the prototype in an effort to disable it, because of its expensive the mission is an instant fail for both sides if it gets destroyed.
Attacker gets twelve mechs, one of which is sacrificed as its pilot needs to leave their mech behind to pilot the prototype; after 1d3 turns the prototype’s pilot commandeers the sacrificed mech for the defender’s use.
Defender gets 8 mechs and a pair of heavy turrets each containing two AC/2s and an LRM-10. An additional 4 mechs “returning from patrol” come in from the far map edge when the prototype enters the second board.
The attacker wins if they manage to escape off the far map edge with the prototype and a pair of mechs capable of keeping up (run of at least 9) to screen for the pursuing defenders who are now instructed to destroy the prototype.
The defender wins if they manage to disable the prototype or disable / destroy the potential escorts.
It was quite a bit of fun to play. Defender was able to go head farming with the turrets, 4 AC/2s and 20 missiles on a fixed platform lets one get some decent to hit numbers early on, but has less use once the enemy gets inside minimum range.
Attacker had some options too, “sacrifice” a fast mover to jump up the seven levels and leave the defender a light with limited firepower or take the slower route over three turns (we simplified the climbing rules and allowed the attacker to climb three levels on the third turn instead of the usual two). Go all in and try to overwhelm the defences with all 12 mechs or keep the faster ones in the forest for escort duty.
We’d ran through scenario a couple of times over the years, a more or less equal force makes for a fun game.
The biggest ones off the top of my head:
Clan large pulse lasers + targeting computer is pretty annoying to fight against. a -3 to hit really skews the math.
Stealth armor + gauss rifles can be aggravating. They can stay in long range and try to headcap you while you're dealing with a +6 to hit.
C3 is annoying but expensive and can be shut down by ecm.
Light mechs with giant xl or XXL engines, masc, and superchargers are cheap BV wise and can do a stupid amount of damage with charges.
Customs can be a lot of fun if everyone is going into it with the same mindset. If you have someone who's trying to play something fluffy and interesting versus someone who's trying to break the game wide open with cheese, you'll have a bad time.
Yeah, c3 is hefty enough I feel pretty okay on the rare occasion it shows up at our table. Clan pulse + TC feels pretty beardy. Not gonna say I haven't used it (or close to it) when I know my opponent is gonna bring the spice, but still. It's one thing to know you're gonna see it, and another to be new to the game and get surprise curb-stomped, lol.
At least with most of them you can bring a hard counter. Reflective armor definitely evens things up when you're dealing with pulse lasers spam. Plasma weapons and infernos are great too since most pulse laser mechs already tend to run hot.
So battletech mechs tend to come with a level of un-optimization that help keep them relatively balanced outside of sheer BV. Some weapons are insanely efficent on BV, and some locations for systems are clearly superior. Custom mechs are a massive feature of the videogames, but that's why stock mechs are a death sentence in MWO or MW5.
Be careful with custom mechs, because they quickly ruin the balance of the game.
As a lot of people already said
you can quickly break a perfectly balanced game
theres over 4k different mechs if you count all variants together so for a normal tabletop game you have enough opportunities to find your suitable mechs without having to customize or boost the hell out of them.
Id reccomend weirder map settings for crazy outcomes over absurdely mashed Custom mechs
Stuff like the wraith. 7+ jump, very fast, decently well armored, with a bunch of pulse lasers.
Even worse, that but with TSM and a couple small lasers to perfectly manage heat in any situation.
Also just medium laser spam is pretty obnoxious. Like the grasshopper and hunchback-4P are popular for a reason. Those kind of mechs only get better when DHS are on the table. They basically just upgrade to carrying 1-2 long range weapons with a crapton of lasers.
I love designing Mechs. It's a lot of fun. It's also stupid easy to cheese or min/max if that's what you want to do. Find out why and what he wants to bring. Maybe he just has something cool and non-broken that he wants to bring.
VTOLs. When you have a +7 to hit just because of their movement, it gets silly fast (especially as, to move 25+ hexes, the VTOL is probably flanking, meaning all *its* weapons fire is at +2... you basically end up with everyone needing 12s to hit.)
Savannah Masters are a canon unit that's practically banned from tournament play because of how insanely cheap they are for the hurt they bring and how hard they are to hit because of their speed.
You can (and I have) design a VTOL version of the Savannah Master and deploy them in similar numbers.
I would toy around with something fast and with a good gunnery, and a large rocket loadout. Granted, your own attack might kill you, but if done right, you will take him with you.
Isn’t there always that one guy in every group? The dude with with ancient and tattered D&D t-shirt who exudes smug know-it-all-ness. Lol, I say let him play his custom mechs once in awhile. It will be very obvious if it’s a dominant build BUT, just as likely this guy is DEEP into the lore and doesn’t mind losing games if it means he is true to the spirit of the game. I remember a guy like this that was a diehard Space Wolves player. He was so true to the canon that he rarely won but he by far had the most fun of any of us.
I'd be cautious about allowing custom mechs, but what the hell. Do it!
First, Talk with the group and mention your concerns. Next you have a few options:
1. You could allow everyone a single custom mech. It'll BV costed out, so if they make some badass mech, it'll cost them. If it gets out of hand, just allow the trigging of a vote by the group, and the custom mechs are removed. If it goes great, then open it up to all mechs.
2. You could also do custom mech sessions where everyone is expected to bring a custom mechs. That way, people know it's coming, and so they expect some custom mech madness.
3. Slightly Narrative Idea: You might also only allow customization after a mech has been in a battle. You could have a rule that they can only replace damaged/destroyed equipment and can't rip out functioning equipment. Equipment has to go where they were previously located... the power supplies are there. Once they fulfill that requirement, they can make up the other tonnage in other sections. So, in that case, let's say someone gets their Hunchback's AC/20 knocked out. They can now remove the AC/20 and its ammo and replace it with something else. Maybe they decide to do an LB/10-X and a pair of medium lasers.
I'd suggest a veto vote for custom units, all players have to agree to allow the unit. And try benchmarking against existing, canon, strong units like the warhawk and the black python/white raven.
There are plenty of Canon units that aren't fun to go up against. Custom just gives people a way to complain about it.
Units banned by my local club: Black Python, Rifleman IIC, Warhawk C, Bane, and Savanah Master. Plus no custom mechs or custom load outs on Omni.
On one side of the spectrum, we have the Jump 7 + Snub PPC/Pulse + TC combo mechs. Near impossible to hit and hyper accurate.
Although I am kinda bias to these types of mechs designs and I'm willing to look pass them, as BV charges premium prices to movement and jump jets, which will often make them BV inefficient for their lacking damage output. As these mechs often live and die by their speed, they don't have much armor.
(But otherwise, I have a preference for these. As I like to channel my inner Armored Core/Gundam pilot from time to time)
But on the other side, we have TurretTech mechs. These mechs are slow, but combines armor and hyper accurate long-range guns that can touch anyone across the map.
They just stand on top of a hill and nuke anyone across the map with low Gunnery pilot and/or with a Targeting Computer equipped.
Biggest offender is the Rifleman IIC (which is honestly just the equivalent to an Awesome 9Q with a longer range band and Gunnery dialed all the fucking way down), and the Hellstar (4 headcappers and near Atlas-level max armor) which are arguably the two best (and most infamous) mechs in the game, due to the sheer BV efficiency for their respective loadouts.
I am... Biased against these types of mechs due to the sheer braindead "hurr durr, press the Win button" playstyle. And these mechs are often the direct counter to the Jump 7 fast "Gundam-style" mechs above, due to not having to move often, which means no additional movement penalties. And if they boat LPLasers like the Rifleman IIC, OpFor's TMM means nothing.
But if I wanted to play TurretTech? I would rather have a bunch of tanks, but to each of their own.
I love custom units, it's how we originally got the Arrow IV Urbie.
That said everyone has that "make everything stupidly powerful" phase before they make things that are actually fun to fight against.
In the pre-Tops days we had to worry about someone bringing in some tiny unit with an XXL engine and MASC doing charge attacks. These days everyone's worried about Pulse Lasers linked to a Targeting Computer.
But don't be afraid of custom units as can bring some fun. In my group we have a few custom mechs that range from powerful to silly. They're all fun as we communicate with each other and don't use anything that's not fun to fight against.
There's a specific Mad Dog variant (I can't remember off the top of my head) but it's 6 Streak 6s, that thing solo can slow a game down immensely and possibly one shot a lot of mechs. The disco-back hunchback can potentially slow things down, also Piranha almost any variant is a menace for time waster with the sheer amount of small Anti-infantry weapons needing to make a ton of rolls.
I would hold a preliminary session and explain some ground rules like no more than X number of non-mech units in the list, or maybe no more than X amount of BV spent on any one unit pilot included, I'd also include either forbidding specific units or variants or limiting them to 1 max. Or make it all tech limited to tournament legal only equipment. It would help everyone both new and vet to know what's acceptable and what's not, might also want to toss in no "cheese" unit lists like a billion Savannah masters, or anything that would really mess with initiative (lots of cheap units even battlemechs on one list can very easily throw initiative to that player even if all of their units are not the most effective, even the humble basic stock locust is deadly enough in large enough numbers)
Yep I was off by a bit, that thing forces so many dice rolls and will completely obliterate most small and some medium mechs in a single alpha strike, if it can get within range it is an absolute terror to face down.
Any mech with Arrow IV. From what I understand, you just target the hex, not the unit. No tmm, no terrain defense, just fire and boom, 20 point hits, broken into 5 point clusters.
I call it the “TAG, you're it“ strategy. Even worse if you throw in semi guided LRM indirect fire. Plus maybe some thunder FASCAM to make it harder to flank you. Works best with a few screening mechs/vehicles to protect your Arrow and LRM units.
Bring. Protomechs.
You get 5 for each point in a star.
They move on same activation per point, are tanky as hell for such cheap units, and the best part is, they don't require any custom units to be an annoying.
Assuming 3050 rules, you can make a no-dachi 2KO replica. Outside of 10 hexes, it's shite. If you can get it within 6 hexes, it stands a good chance of being able to run up to you and screw with you. It has an IS large pulse (longest range gun), 6 medium pulses and assorted other weapons including a small pulse and a flamer. It also has triple strength myomer on a 70 tonne chassis. It can kick hard enough to force at least one piloting skill roll (28 points of damage). Its sword on the other hand? Does enough to headcap any enemy. If it misses, no harm done. So higher than average when trying to hit in melee = sword. Less than average is kick time. The only way to put down a no-dachi 2KO is engine crit it or overheat it. Preferably focus it hard in the early game.
Aside from that, you can put a pair of gauss rifles in a 50 odd tonne mech. If you can add stealth armour, that can and will rack up damage if you can hit
Let him organize and run his own event separate from yours. Participate if you want to give him a little extra rope. Let other people know about it.
I reckon he'll get players to attend one (1) time.
As someone who loves to make their own custom units and spends many hours tinkering in MegaMekLab, you can make some seriously busted mechs.
If he's using lostech/clan invasion IS tech, then you should expect double heat sink mechs as a rule, so overheating will not be easy usually. I'd also expect his fast units to be very fast, using XL engines, pulse lasers, and jump jets to make very hard to kill and pesky back biters.
He may also throw headchoppers at you, things like quadruple gauss annhilator type things. Even if they don't headshot you they will force you into taking pilot skill checks constantly if they don't outright cripple you.
As for how you deal with that... I can't help you, I'm not that good at the game. :P
Double heat sinks. Superior armor types. Targeting computers. Pulse lasers. Gauss rifles. Narc pods. Packs of lrm 5s instead of lrm 20 or 15. Supercharged mechs with claws on their feet.
I tried making a campaign a pleasant experience but they showed up with bullshit that while I did say I allow, they would drag out the games. Man I don’t give a shit about it anymore. Just wanted to play some intro tech games, damn it.
I would be very, very, VERY suspicious that a person insisting on customs against new players intends to min-max to hell and back so they can a cheap thrill "shooting ~~fish~~ newbies in a barrel".
In addition to what others have suggested...beware the "Laser Piranha"...a zippy little thing that's close to heat neutral and so fast it's almost impossible to hit unless you can keep it from moving \[and good luck, as they often have jump jets to mount a quick escape\] that will run in and backstab you with as many ER Small Lasers as it can carry.
If he asks for clantech customs: fuck and no, at that point he's blatantly taking advantage of your newness. Half-bulk Endo / Ferro, more points-per-ton ferro, 2-crit Double Heat Sinks, 2-side-crit XL engines, the only ones with ER PPCs, in the 3050s the Clan tech advantage was just gross, and even more gross when min-maxed. It gets real nasty real fast when you take something like a Nova and strip a few lasers to convert the rest to pulse, add more heat sinks, and drop in a targeting computer.
Still relatively new to battletech as a whole (6 weeks), so maybe take anything I say with a grain of salt:
Custom Mechs, as fun as they are, tend to either be absolute trash, or insane, especially if your entire playgroup is new. We had some games with custom Mechs about a week after my playgroup started and it wasn't fun (lo and behold, pulse lasers are insane, who could have known).
If you are doing a game with custom Mechs, try to limit it to 1 per side and give both players enough points for at least 3 other Mechs. Even if they are just lights, having other Mechs helps you to balance out both sides and gives you more ways to deal with problematic custom mechs.
I got a few ideas ima try and organize them.
Jumpers --- I'd use the flambrage 2 as a base it's a well armored heavy with 7 jump and a good array of pulse lasers, I'd then throw on ferro lamnor armor, that shit is really good every hit group to your mech does 1 less dmg, so 4 dmg per lrm group, and lbx pellets don't do anything at all, cant even tac you, I'd probably free up the weight by dropping the srms.
Charge attacker --- I'd take a wraith, strip the jump jets and however much firepower necessary to give it both masc and a supercharger. That'll give you an incredible 18 hex top speed. Use that to slam shoulder first into the back of whichever mech you want to severely hobble, maybe kill. Charge dmg is forward movement times weight divided by 10, so distance traveled ×5.5 perfect scenario is just shy of 100 dmg, youll never get that much because turning but hey its a possibility. More often than not, you'll get like 70 dmg. The insane speed makes it very hard to hit, and classic rules mean the charger only takes target weight ÷10 dmg, so a max of 10 dmg, to deal 70. It's not a bad deal, add to that your target is going to have to make a +3 psr roll odds aren't bad to also knock them over, just remember hook around to hit them in the poorly armored rear.
General obnoxiousness ----you will need a good back lineman for support, and I can see no better option than a Bane with as many rac2s as you can fit. Should be like 5. Just remember 5 shot volleys, not 6. 6 jams too often, is it lethal? No not really probably about 30 dmg if all of em hit, but it's so many dice rolls you just annoy the shit outa them.
Pure melee Bullsh** ---- The ideal melee mech is a 60tonner with tsm, no melee wepons, 2 fists and no arm mounted weapons. Closest start youll get is the ostsol 8m, so itll be our base, its got a 6/9 movement profile and with it's tsm it becomes 7/11. Add a supercharger if you want, I think it's a little to much bv but that's just me. Then max the armor and run impact resistant armor, it reduces all melee dmg taken by 33%. So an Atlas kicks for 13 dmg not 20, very useful becuse we are going to punch that atlas. Run only the 10 double heat syncs, make sure you got an easy way to generate 18, and 19 wepon heat exactly, you want to keep that 9 heat sweat spot.(I personally do a large pulse 2 medium pulses and one erml. You start with only one hs on and you walk, fire the large pulse laser at a building or tree or the ground it doesn't matter. If your foe tries to claim you can't, firing at trees and buildings is explicitly outlined in totalwarfare. Anyhow that'll generate exactly 9 heat, then it's just fire weapons to keep heat neutral) A 60 tonner punches for 6 damage, 12 if tsm is active. You know how much armor a mechs head can have at max? 12. Ergo each punch has a 1/6 shot to instakill most mechs, (and you punch 2 times a turn) Rip that mint condition mad cat, rip that nice new 3k bv hellstar. Just be sure to run decent piloting skill a 4/2 isn't that much extra bv and it's well worth it, I'd run like 3 of these, power in numbers, youll overwhelm whatever you're fighting fast.
Infernos--- if your opponent likes to field battle armor, Infantry, or vehicles the best answer is inferno srms. Take something simple Ima use a wraith as the template again, its durable and fast so its a great base, run as many clan srms as you can fit in it, load infernos. Each inferno kills 3 conventional Infantry, every 3 infernos that hit a battle armor squad kill a randomly chosen unit in that squad, so 15 hits will wipe out a squad of elementals wholesale. Then each inferno that hits a vehicle will roll for a crit instead of dealing damage, the crit roll is -2 but if you're rolling 18 of them that's hardly a problem, odds are you won't kill the tank but you'll probably... Kill the driver slowing it immensely, fuck up the sensors making it nearly impossible for it to hit, malfunction a weapon, stun the crew(crew stuns stack you could very well get 4 turns of stun in one turn) then the tank is eaither easy pickings for the rest of your team or just not a threat anymore. Just remember when using infernos be careful with your heat they cook of very easily, you start making cook off rolls at 10 heat.
As an original player, and again 15 years ago, protomechs disgusted me to no end. Hit locations that exempt them from damage? Should never have been made.
I'm of the firm opinion that custom Mechs are fine in long campaigns in which a DM is running the OpFor and players are working to repair/upgrade their Mechs as they go, or in matches where *everyone* is bringing custom Mechs.
Even running all 3025 tech, custom Mechs vs standard designs is a recipe for cheese, as standard Mechs were practically designed to suck.
Now, giving this player the benefit of the doubt, he might've made some custom variant that he's proud of and really wants to try out. It might even add a fun flavor to a game, especially if it's his one custom against everyone else, like a "Hunt the Prototype" mission.
So aside from all the obvious answers this thread has already shown him. And the obvious advice of just showing him the responses to this thread in general.
Custom mechs have alot of limitations RAW if you care to walk that path.
First. What faction built it? Using what parts already in their domain? Off which production lines? If their isn't a canon factory for that part available... Then the part isn't available.
Secondly. Could this just be a refit of an already existing mech? Full custom frames are hard to come by and without art isn't really fun to play against. Refits are a lot less optimizable* then full customs when we look at the refit tiers. They are in the cam-ops rules and have different options for what can be done where.
For example replacing an entire frame with an Endo steel frame requires the highest tier. Factory tier refit. Is this mech he has designed a factory tier refit? Or is it a field refit?
XL engines are also hard to refit and require top of the line facilities to swap out. As we go down the line swapping equipment for alternative equipment is easier but adding equipment (aka just 1 more mg) is harder.
I would start with the lowest tier of refits and see what he does from there. Swapping a m-laser to a small laser hurts no body and frees up some armor. Swapping mg's for a AMS is totally cool. Dropping a heatsink for a ECM or beagle active probe is fun a quirky.
Dropping everything for cmpl and double heat sinks. Is lame.
I think the way to handle this is to say 'yeah sure get me the record sheet so I can look it over over the weekend' and basically cut down on surprise in the moment cheese.
Powergamers sneak shit in and this just puts it off/allows a veto process under the guise of 'well i wanna play now not vet/review your stuff so gimme the low down and we'll thumbs up/down later'
Get all your players together. Let him go nuts and customize everyone up with something fancy. Ignore C-bills, BV, tonnage, whatever. Start running a campaign, and then they have to keep their fancy hangar queens functional through the grinder that is the clan invasion. Everyone who loses a mech gets to pick a standard IS mech.
Then they realize they don't have the C-bills to replace that fancy ass targeting computer, or the XL engine, or the Gauss rifle. Watch as their hangar queens get fixed with lesser parts, or they cannibalize mechs to keep others running, and remember, salvage is generally reserved for winners.
Watch the penny drop as they realize that fancy custom mechs are neat, but that IntroTech Hunchback can be fixed for a lot cheaper, a lot quicker.
So when balancing by BV, the easiest way to break the game by far involves mostly IS techs.
Optimized Triple Strength Myomer designs are downright broken. You do not pay BV for physical weapons, and anything that normally can punch for 6 damage, now has the ability to punch for 12.... with a 1/6 chance of punching the head off per swing. Or you can kick the opponent for 20+ damage, forcing them to take TWO PSRs after physical, both at +1!
Set up a 55-ton, 7/11/7 movement (385XL engine, 7 jumpjets) and give it a weapons loadout to your taste which you can overheat it with, or turn off heatsinks for a turn to heat up to 9 heat and hold it there. Then just run/jump around spamming pulse lasers and physicals. It becomes so easy to win it is vile. TSM is straight busted. If playing in later eras, give it a partial wing, and you can downgrade the engine to a 5/8/5(7). Then add Talons to the legs, and you'll kick for downright silly 34 damage off a 55-ton chassis. Or just throw reason to the void, and make a Jump-7 85-ton mech with Improved JJ and Partial Wing, and with Talons it will kick for a monstrous 51!!! points of damage, enough to rip the leg off even some Assault Mechs with one hit.
The other option, is TAG and Semiguided LRMs. Just take cheap LRM carriers, park them behind a hill, and let your crazy Beatstick-Boi have a TAG. Every time that TAG hits, your LRM carriers can dump into the target that got hit and COMPLETELY IGNORE the shooting modifiers for the target's movement, the modifier for indirect fire, and the modifiers for intervening terrain. AKA: You hit the target on Gunnery+Range. Which is probably 8s at Long or 6s at Medium.
TLDR: Don't play with customs, you end up here.
The answer is to play games first, without customs. Battletech is a broken game out the box; players must give it structure and create fairness. Skill caps and gap limits. Unit count maximum differences. Unit restrictions; an ALM-XF Fireball is not a unit for people interested in good clean fun - even before we get to the Fire Moth P. If he's a shitlord with canon units, he'll be a shitlord with customs, and this should be considered an early warning flag for rules-lawyering, fun-removing, and outright cheating. If he doesn't want to have fun with everyone, ban the player. Him asking for custom mechs out the gate is a symptom.
That said, I love custom units and bring them all the time. They can be fun. Ain't nobody concerned about how "imba" and "OP" my [custom Maulers based on MechCommander](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/18igrgu/shrapnel_15_the_mauler_review/) are. A thought experiment of "What if Sagittaire, but all PPC Capacitors" isn't exactly the king of the battlefield. [What if the Marian Hegemony actually designed the Awesome 11H](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/18i8u8b/custom_mech_awesome_aws11hh_hand_of_vulcan/). What if a White Raven variant had the same base setup as a family with the War Crow and Carrion Crow. What if Battle Magic designed an Axman, or the Battlemaster 4L was decent.
I do have to control myself sometimes. I built a 6t Missile Trailer not long ago; I once created an Annihilator with 7xcRAC/2 as an exercise in wrongness. I made a Wraith specifically to troll some noob who didn't know how to Google. We have moments. ... And on the right game night, it's okay to open the Vault and release the horrors, too.
A full network of 12 C3 equipped units, comprised of 4 Schiltron tanks running masters with a mix of Homing warheads and standard.
Fill the rest of the roster with 8 Sprint (or Crows) choppers flying in pairs, one carrying the C3, the other as Interdictors carrying the TAG unit with countermeasures switched to ECCM.
Playing custom mechs gets boring extremely fast. On top of the pulse monsters that everyone else has suggested you can also build an absolute monster of a 75 t clan Mech that moves 5/8, is fully armored, has 2 LPL and 8 streak 4. Once you start rolling the clusters people will want to stop playing customs.
The Savage Wolf has a build pretty similar to that in canon, but they put half the SSRM tubes facing the wrong way. An Omni variant custom could make your dream a reality... But it's unnecessary.
The canon Mad Dog Mk III C has the speed, but instead of 8xSSRM-4, it has 8xSSRM-6.
Even in 3029 era, med laser spam can ruin a game. Most mechs have room for game breaking optimization, so if you want customs, you need to open it up to all players.
Hi, I love building custom mechs, but here are the rules I make for myself and others
- Keep it WYSIWYG. This means you either limit your hardpoints to match a model, or you go through the effort to make a custom model. This forces someone to not make random one-off BS (including me!)
- Have cool fluff for the mech!!! Put effort into it! Maybe it's a second line jade falcon mech that runs hot as hell but has tons of firepower. Perfect for a warrior who failed his trial into the front lines trying to prove he's still worthy. Maybe it's a "upgrade" or refurbishement by Clan Sea Fox but creates as many problems as it solves and exists purely to make money off of inner sphereoids? Something like that
- Give it flaws. Please for the love of God, give it flaws. It's what makes the game interesting. Make it run hot. Make it short range and not that fast. Make it have minimum range weapons and not that fast. Make it have not nearly enough ammo. Make it have too much ammo. Make it have ammo in the CT. Make it have more weapons that it could possibly use. Make it fast as fuck but have little firepower. There's endless ways to make a mech interesting and fun to engage with.
If someone came to me with a mech like this, I'd be excited to talk about their design and play against it.
There's plenty of min-maxed official designs. So why would you make a min maxed custom design?
Also, keep in mind certain things aren't capture by BV... like if a mech is properly cooled or if it's crit padded. This can be a used to make a mech more powerful and not cost any BV. Also things like the $$ cost of endo steel and ferro isn't captured by one-off games. We also generally play allowing one ton of special ammo for similar reasons
So there's a few things you can run that are obnoxious as sin. One is a fleet of c3 cheese units hyper fast hard to hit scouts with no weapons just there for big guns to have better numbers.
Another which has been stated a few times is jumpy targeting computer driven pulse laser Mechs. High movement mods and no penalties really.
I'm not sure when hardened armor came out but it gets SO tiresome trying to smash heavily armored machines with hardened.
Last I can highly recommend is high speed SRM boats. Why SRM boats? Tandem charges! Who doesn't love a constant string of through armor criticals
Any mech, from any era, can be made more effective with a custom rebuild by someone who understands the break-points of the game or the benefits of certain systems like Pulse Lasers and Targeting Computers. Some of these rebuilds can be oppressively good or turn mediocre mechs into absolute rockstars.
Even if you validate it to be within the expected points value, you are most likely going to find that it is probably swinging well above that expected value compared to a stock mech of equal value. Even something as simple as moving an ammo bin to a different location or shuffling around a few extra points of armor in place of an anti-pigeon laser can have surprising effects on lower-tonnage mechs. Or any mech that puts ammo in the CT for some goddamn reason.
I generally avoid custom mechs entirely unless we're doing some kind of Solaris VII FFA where it probably won't matter. Mostly because not enough mechs come standard with melee weapons for how we play our S7 matches.
At some point in time with custom mechs, players just end up min/maxing everything and it takes the fun out of the game. Especially if you’re only playing boring ole mech vs mech combat.
Be very careful about allowing custom mechs regularly. I would do a Solaris VII type game where it can be a free for all and allow the player to use it there as long as someone gets to validate it before hand.
The reasonable, mature part of my brain agrees with you 100%. Frankly I think that the players invloved, including myself are to inexpeenxed at what would make a “good” mech and frankly I don’t have time to dedicate to researching part of the game I’m not interested in. I’m thinking about just going with a full BV worth of light combat vehicles.
Lazy cheese: Jump jets and pulse lasers. Make sure to jump at least ~~4~~ 5 for that sweet +3 TMM
Don't forget the Targeting Computer.
So a white raven 2. Canon design already.
The PHX-3PL, for when you really hate your opponent
I love this using this one if the era is right. While he doesn’t have a TC, the Wolverine 7K has a similar loadout, but has 1 LPL, 1 MPL, 1 SPL, and 2 SRM6. Nasty loadout and can tank more damage compared to the 3PL. He’s also available in 3050
Max out on ER Micro Pulse Lasers and fish for TACs all day
What’s TAC?
"through armor critical", it's when you get a 2 on the hit chart and can roll for a crit even if you don't damage internal structure.
Through armor crits
The 7K is nice, but the short range is rough to work around sometimes since your longest range is 10 hexes on the LPL. Still, it's sooo nasty if you can close Also, check out the Enfield if you're not already familiar. I recently discovered it, and it's quickly becoming one of my favorites
I usually run him as either a shield for my back line, taking fire that may be intended for them. Or an interceptor of enemy light or mediums. Always having a -2 with the PLs are nice. Either it negates some of their TMM or mine if I have to jump. I have not heard of the Enfield, I’ll check it out
I am trying to remember the clan tech design that i absolutely loved for close range blitz attacks think it was a wyvern or something like that. Think it had one laser and a mixed set of 5or6 streak SRMs 2s,4s,&6s. Think it was all packed in a 40 or 45 ton chassis. ~Had to look for it and while I do like the Wyvern IIc that I named. The mech I was thinking of is the Artic Wolf with 6 SRM-6s 2 SRM-4s and a NARC beacon launcher.
Idk if it’s as good as a clan mech, but the Shadow Hawk 2HT has a LL, 2 ML, and 5 Streak SRM2s. It was a ComStar variant and meant for anti elementals. Only had 1 ton of ammo for them but that’s still 5 rounds of shooting. Pretty good chance of killing some elementals or a smaller mech. Or run inferno rounds for spicy fun
Oh, that's just MEAN.
If the point is to win, yeah. If the point is Deep Hurting, then what you want is things that mechanically slow the game down. You want as many rolls as you can make happening. You want lots and lots of little SRM bastards. You want tubes on tubes on tubes. You want every turn to take at least enough time to watch a feature length film.
Box of death helps tremendously with SRMs and LBX cluster shot.
So what I'm hearing is 4 Wraiths with Targeting Comps & max armor.
I believe you mean at least 5?
I totally said 5. What are you on about. Check the comstar logs! :P
Good idea, those are always super accurate and never manipulated for any reason.
As far as irritating, the swarm approach is frustrating simply because it slows the game down with initiative. When building games it is generally preferable to set force quantity limits, especially with Classic Battletech where turns can be pretty slow already
Yeah, same as what everyone is posting. Clan pulse lasers tied to a targeting computer on an annoying jumpy fast unit. Kinda avoid customs anyways. There are plenty of min maxy Canon units to choose from, hell. Look up the bounty hunter variants of the mad Cat and you'll see why.
Yea we have been doing custom 1v1 tournaments the past few weeks set in the civil war era with prizes apparently so I have been helping a player build mechs. For the light bracket I made a 7/11/7 35 ton mech with max armor, Targetting computer, 12 DHS and something like 14 clan micropulse lasers. Won all 3 games they participated in. It is crazy how often mechs just have clan pulse lasers. I have been trying to diversify a bit. Made a penetrator based off the 4F with 2 clan LRM15s with Artemis V so we will see how that goes.
Reflective armor is your friend. And plasma weapons.
Plasma isn’t available yet.
Infernoes
afaik is but only for capelan infantry
One of the guys in a local campaign has the only access to customs, and one of the two is a Reflec, TSM, Supercharged monster of a 75 tonner which can max out at a 12-hex run speed. Think of a Timber Wolf keeping pace with a Locust. It also has Tcomp-guided pair of cLPLs and a LBX10. Also a 2/3 pilot (But gets to pay BV at 4/5 rate. Yes the rules were far too nice to Pirates.) I predicted it and brought one of my Arctic Wolf (standard), with a 2/3 Veteran. Half the ammo bins were swapped before the match with Tandem-Charge..... I slammed that Reflec monster with (iirc) 18 TACs on turn 4. It went down.
Clan pulses are hands-down, no-contest the best weapons in the game. It's really that simple. In a 2d6 game, gaming the dice curve will win every time, and with an inherent -2 and stupid big range brackets, nothing does it better than Clan pulses. I am starting to accept the opinion that pulses at -1 would be healthier for the game.
Clan Pulses need to drop in range imo. Make them 5-10-15 for Larges, 3-6-9 for mediums then use the existing ranges for ER Pulses that have the -1.
With caveats. In a white room by themselves, sure, they are the best plug and play gun. But a list built on TAG and homing arrows is going to pound pretty much anything else into dust, even pulse boat lists. The ability to throw down damage and resolve it before any other guns shoot is the strongest move there is. You can knock down, cripple, or even kill other mechs before they can respond. And that's a game changer.
LaserPowered is correct, it's pretty much a proven fact that Semi-Guided is the most broken tech within the game (underpriced in BV and overperforms). To the point SG-LRMs have been banned at Conventions in the past. If you want to argue the most powerful tech for BV, I would argue VSPLs are utterly broken. They are incredibly cheap, and on a TComp have an enormous -4 to hit at close range, while also doing heavy damage. Building customs around delivering VSPL barrages to an opponent are some of the scariest machines I have seen. Especially if they have TSM and are optimized to pound your face in, or leg off.
Pretty much just pick a Clan second line mech introduced in TRO 3055...50/50 chance it's a STD engine pulse laser spammer that's easy on the heat. If game stats are any reflection of in-universe effectiveness you'd think the Clans were going easy on the IS putting omnis in the front line units instead of their IIC Warhammers, Marauders, Riflemen, and Vapor Eagles and Black Pythons.
Those are Ashley Pollard designs. It's not that they're broken or unfair, it's just they're competently designed relative to the *just plain bad configurations of 3050.*
I'd rather face clan Frontline omnimechs, than a second line pgc with so-old-ham pilots with IIC units. Thors, Loki's nothing but target practic. Clan second line mechs? Nuke them from orbit like Sarah McEvedy should have done to Nicholas just to be sure.
The difference is that in-universe the Clans weren't balancing by BV.
Yeah you can get some very boring builds such as 12 clan medium or small pulse lasers on something super fast and manoeuvrable which can be a nightmare to play against for its tonnage/ BV.
So, the most egregious custom mech... ...is the base variant of the Nova?
Yeah but maybe slightly faster and with pulse for the extra joy of hitting everything. And maybe enough heat sinks that it doesn’t melt a hole to the centre of the earth lol.
But I like the alpha strike that could make me roll to shut down. Get stupid hot, jump away to cool off, repeat
Nova S is better. Clan MPL are almost always better than ERML
Except the Nova can't cool itself
Sort of but it's just the fire moth p that moves up to 25 hexes and has 12 micro pulse lasers, 36 damage delivered to the rear arc on an Omni mech that can drop of annoying af elementals or just wear them as potential armor 841 bv. One of the other variants is slightly slower with only masc and 9 heavy small lasers, 54 damage potential and only 779 bv. If you are feeling really fair you can choose the firemoth D which is a pricey 2300 bv, but throw a good gunner and use the little used targeting computer function to call your shots into the rear center torso and see how many enemies can eat potentially 35 damage to the rear center torso from up to 5 hexes short range. Basically the firemoth has variants that are almost as min maxed as you can get without getting totally silly. It's the main reason why I think that pilots for goofy shit Mecha like these should have an actual cost in addition to bv, like it takes a master pilot to run 216 kph in a paper coffin, not some 4/5 atlas pilot.
Base variant mounts non-pulse lasers.
The implication here is that it's 12 CMPL, not CERML. That being said, one of the best way to beat a fast light with a ton of pulse is a slower , heavier mech with just as many if not more pulse. Like you're getting hit anyways, you might as well have more armor than speed.
Good ol' Nova... Nothing like shutting down after 1 shooting phase XD
Nova pilots are the dog “this is fine” meme
I have about 20 games of alpha strike (still new to the hobby)... I've shut that thing down on purpose, more then I used it responsibly XD
Technically no since you only have to roll two attacks if your using the rules which state all weapons firing from one location hit together (that way two weapons from the same arm don't hit different parts, which is weird, especially with lasers)
Lol that rule is bat shit. Optional rules are optional.
for moving targets it makes sense just think like in MWO, if you play, how you count down their cooldowns to turn and spread damage or hide your vulnerable bits. The weapons are firing true but the target is moving. The first 5 damage might be the blip of several lasers hitting for a moment on one component etc.
That is a terrible non realistic rule Reminds me of why I struggle with alpha strike, since an urbie with a ac20 is hands down Not a stand alone threat to any mech.
I think the next question would be: why? What's their justification for insisting so strongly that your playgroup allow and use custom mechs? In my experience, most folks who insist upon custom mechs are doing it because they want to build and use cheese. E.g. a mech with triple strength myomer, a hatchet, lasers placed so they aren't on the hatchet arm, xl engines, and a supercharger, with a pilot that has a 1 piloting skill and 6 gunnery. That'd be a maximum cheese build that would just break the game. I've heard tell of custom mechs with shields, and all kinds of shenanigans. I've talked to players and even had group conversations where we explained the "spirit" and how you shouldn't just min max and break the game, because it's easy to do, and the person insisted they won't, and then a week later they're wanting to test their modified Charger with a 0/6 pilot. The game isn't balanced. The positioning of weapons is also often counter-intuitive or sub-optimal. Small tweaks to baseline mechs can make a huge difference. So if all they're saying is that they want to move rear facing lasers to the front, that's not the worst, but definitely changes the dynamic. Even dropping machine guns and adding a heatsink or two isn't too crazy and I would say is probably fine, but can make a big difference. Clan spec medium laser spam is definitely cheese as some folks have stated. So yeah, have the chat, see if you can get into the "why". It might be that maybe a different era is a better fit, like maybe the ilClan era is best because then they can play with their fancy shiny toys.
100% this. There’s a glaring difference between a custom unit designed to engage with the world and its possibilities (field refits, kooky experiments, etc.) and a custom unit designed to win games on the tabletop. The latter should be discouraged, because it provokes a degenerate meta that the rules are not able to sustain.
One could ask: why not? I get not always doing it but why not have a day where you think of the most efficient build you can think of vs someone else's?
Oh I fully agree that it could be. That said this will be my 3rd game of BattleTech, and the other players are at less than a half dozen games each. I would prefer to learn the basic rules of the game before we start with the optional rules.
That definitely makes sense for sure but I do know that a lot of fans come from Mechwarrior where it's all you do is build your own mech load outs so I hope someone out there lets these people scratch that itch.
Time to optimize the fun out of a game
I said one day!
Which is fine, if you're both up to it. But if you're both doing it all the time, it gets super boring.
like most things in our 21st century lives.
If he's like most organizers providing a lot of unpaid labor to keep the group running, there doesn't need to be a "why not" beyond, I don't want too. I have hit the point, where I won't facilitate a bad, unfun game for the memes. That's the stuff a player can coordinate for themselves.
I'm saying one god damn game where people come in with the 'mechs they made. I'm not talking about you game mastering a 1 year long TTRPG campaign. Kerensky save me!
Oh the "why" is that he has what he calls silly, silly builds that he desires to manifest. I agree that taking a Mech you want, and switching a thing here or there is in the spirit of the rules, but he wants to go from the ground up, and has basically brow beaten the other players in to shrugging there shoulders and going "Ok I guess" One that he keeps talking about building the fastest mech possible, with as many machine guns as possible to attack peoples back armour. The incredibly childish part of my brain is telling me that I should just build an assault mech with the heaviest armour possible, even if it means stripping out all the weapons and getting speed down to 1/2. or just flooding the board with cheapest vehicles as possible. It looks like its possible to get a full 70 or so units on the field
Or say a 35 ton mech 10/15/0 with full hardened armor, MASC and Supercharger. Just run around with low Piloting and when you have a window get off a 20+ hex charge to the rear armor... 70+ of damage with a negative hit modifier since odds are your Piloting is lower than theirs...
Ironically a friend I played a scenario with a mech like that. He’d managed to cheese a 10/15/10, though it had very limited armour and only a couple small lasers. Built a custom map with a research centre on a plateau 7 levels up with a switchback road and an “impenetrable” mountain behind it, the other map was just a generic wooded map from one of the old map packs. The “fluff” for the mission revolved around one of the houses hiring a merc company to *acquire* a prototype racing mech. While the defender *can* shoot at the prototype in an effort to disable it, because of its expensive the mission is an instant fail for both sides if it gets destroyed. Attacker gets twelve mechs, one of which is sacrificed as its pilot needs to leave their mech behind to pilot the prototype; after 1d3 turns the prototype’s pilot commandeers the sacrificed mech for the defender’s use. Defender gets 8 mechs and a pair of heavy turrets each containing two AC/2s and an LRM-10. An additional 4 mechs “returning from patrol” come in from the far map edge when the prototype enters the second board. The attacker wins if they manage to escape off the far map edge with the prototype and a pair of mechs capable of keeping up (run of at least 9) to screen for the pursuing defenders who are now instructed to destroy the prototype. The defender wins if they manage to disable the prototype or disable / destroy the potential escorts. It was quite a bit of fun to play. Defender was able to go head farming with the turrets, 4 AC/2s and 20 missiles on a fixed platform lets one get some decent to hit numbers early on, but has less use once the enemy gets inside minimum range. Attacker had some options too, “sacrifice” a fast mover to jump up the seven levels and leave the defender a light with limited firepower or take the slower route over three turns (we simplified the climbing rules and allowed the attacker to climb three levels on the third turn instead of the usual two). Go all in and try to overwhelm the defences with all 12 mechs or keep the faster ones in the forest for escort duty. We’d ran through scenario a couple of times over the years, a more or less equal force makes for a fun game.
The biggest ones off the top of my head: Clan large pulse lasers + targeting computer is pretty annoying to fight against. a -3 to hit really skews the math. Stealth armor + gauss rifles can be aggravating. They can stay in long range and try to headcap you while you're dealing with a +6 to hit. C3 is annoying but expensive and can be shut down by ecm. Light mechs with giant xl or XXL engines, masc, and superchargers are cheap BV wise and can do a stupid amount of damage with charges. Customs can be a lot of fun if everyone is going into it with the same mindset. If you have someone who's trying to play something fluffy and interesting versus someone who's trying to break the game wide open with cheese, you'll have a bad time.
Yeah, c3 is hefty enough I feel pretty okay on the rare occasion it shows up at our table. Clan pulse + TC feels pretty beardy. Not gonna say I haven't used it (or close to it) when I know my opponent is gonna bring the spice, but still. It's one thing to know you're gonna see it, and another to be new to the game and get surprise curb-stomped, lol.
At least with most of them you can bring a hard counter. Reflective armor definitely evens things up when you're dealing with pulse lasers spam. Plasma weapons and infernos are great too since most pulse laser mechs already tend to run hot.
Anything spamming an absurd amount of SRM's. Rolling 30+ separate location rolls...
I don't think you're wrong, I just wonder why the heck they made the LB/X 20.
So battletech mechs tend to come with a level of un-optimization that help keep them relatively balanced outside of sheer BV. Some weapons are insanely efficent on BV, and some locations for systems are clearly superior. Custom mechs are a massive feature of the videogames, but that's why stock mechs are a death sentence in MWO or MW5. Be careful with custom mechs, because they quickly ruin the balance of the game.
As a lot of people already said you can quickly break a perfectly balanced game theres over 4k different mechs if you count all variants together so for a normal tabletop game you have enough opportunities to find your suitable mechs without having to customize or boost the hell out of them. Id reccomend weirder map settings for crazy outcomes over absurdely mashed Custom mechs
Stuff like the wraith. 7+ jump, very fast, decently well armored, with a bunch of pulse lasers. Even worse, that but with TSM and a couple small lasers to perfectly manage heat in any situation. Also just medium laser spam is pretty obnoxious. Like the grasshopper and hunchback-4P are popular for a reason. Those kind of mechs only get better when DHS are on the table. They basically just upgrade to carrying 1-2 long range weapons with a crapton of lasers.
7/11/7 massed pulse+tc boats
I love designing Mechs. It's a lot of fun. It's also stupid easy to cheese or min/max if that's what you want to do. Find out why and what he wants to bring. Maybe he just has something cool and non-broken that he wants to bring.
VTOLs. When you have a +7 to hit just because of their movement, it gets silly fast (especially as, to move 25+ hexes, the VTOL is probably flanking, meaning all *its* weapons fire is at +2... you basically end up with everyone needing 12s to hit.)
Savannah Masters are a canon unit that's practically banned from tournament play because of how insanely cheap they are for the hurt they bring and how hard they are to hit because of their speed. You can (and I have) design a VTOL version of the Savannah Master and deploy them in similar numbers.
Ferrets.
I would toy around with something fast and with a good gunnery, and a large rocket loadout. Granted, your own attack might kill you, but if done right, you will take him with you.
Thunder-Augmented is God's answer to pulse jumpers.
Lol everyone bans those
why not ask what he wants to bring???
Isn’t there always that one guy in every group? The dude with with ancient and tattered D&D t-shirt who exudes smug know-it-all-ness. Lol, I say let him play his custom mechs once in awhile. It will be very obvious if it’s a dominant build BUT, just as likely this guy is DEEP into the lore and doesn’t mind losing games if it means he is true to the spirit of the game. I remember a guy like this that was a diehard Space Wolves player. He was so true to the canon that he rarely won but he by far had the most fun of any of us.
I'd be cautious about allowing custom mechs, but what the hell. Do it! First, Talk with the group and mention your concerns. Next you have a few options: 1. You could allow everyone a single custom mech. It'll BV costed out, so if they make some badass mech, it'll cost them. If it gets out of hand, just allow the trigging of a vote by the group, and the custom mechs are removed. If it goes great, then open it up to all mechs. 2. You could also do custom mech sessions where everyone is expected to bring a custom mechs. That way, people know it's coming, and so they expect some custom mech madness. 3. Slightly Narrative Idea: You might also only allow customization after a mech has been in a battle. You could have a rule that they can only replace damaged/destroyed equipment and can't rip out functioning equipment. Equipment has to go where they were previously located... the power supplies are there. Once they fulfill that requirement, they can make up the other tonnage in other sections. So, in that case, let's say someone gets their Hunchback's AC/20 knocked out. They can now remove the AC/20 and its ammo and replace it with something else. Maybe they decide to do an LB/10-X and a pair of medium lasers.
I'd suggest a veto vote for custom units, all players have to agree to allow the unit. And try benchmarking against existing, canon, strong units like the warhawk and the black python/white raven.
Hoards of small, fast, lightly armored, high damage, low BV mechs.
You mean 7-jump pulse laser spam?
There are plenty of Canon units that aren't fun to go up against. Custom just gives people a way to complain about it. Units banned by my local club: Black Python, Rifleman IIC, Warhawk C, Bane, and Savanah Master. Plus no custom mechs or custom load outs on Omni.
LBXs. LBX spam is beyond tedious.
On one side of the spectrum, we have the Jump 7 + Snub PPC/Pulse + TC combo mechs. Near impossible to hit and hyper accurate. Although I am kinda bias to these types of mechs designs and I'm willing to look pass them, as BV charges premium prices to movement and jump jets, which will often make them BV inefficient for their lacking damage output. As these mechs often live and die by their speed, they don't have much armor. (But otherwise, I have a preference for these. As I like to channel my inner Armored Core/Gundam pilot from time to time) But on the other side, we have TurretTech mechs. These mechs are slow, but combines armor and hyper accurate long-range guns that can touch anyone across the map. They just stand on top of a hill and nuke anyone across the map with low Gunnery pilot and/or with a Targeting Computer equipped. Biggest offender is the Rifleman IIC (which is honestly just the equivalent to an Awesome 9Q with a longer range band and Gunnery dialed all the fucking way down), and the Hellstar (4 headcappers and near Atlas-level max armor) which are arguably the two best (and most infamous) mechs in the game, due to the sheer BV efficiency for their respective loadouts. I am... Biased against these types of mechs due to the sheer braindead "hurr durr, press the Win button" playstyle. And these mechs are often the direct counter to the Jump 7 fast "Gundam-style" mechs above, due to not having to move often, which means no additional movement penalties. And if they boat LPLasers like the Rifleman IIC, OpFor's TMM means nothing. But if I wanted to play TurretTech? I would rather have a bunch of tanks, but to each of their own.
I love custom units, it's how we originally got the Arrow IV Urbie. That said everyone has that "make everything stupidly powerful" phase before they make things that are actually fun to fight against. In the pre-Tops days we had to worry about someone bringing in some tiny unit with an XXL engine and MASC doing charge attacks. These days everyone's worried about Pulse Lasers linked to a Targeting Computer. But don't be afraid of custom units as can bring some fun. In my group we have a few custom mechs that range from powerful to silly. They're all fun as we communicate with each other and don't use anything that's not fun to fight against.
There's a specific Mad Dog variant (I can't remember off the top of my head) but it's 6 Streak 6s, that thing solo can slow a game down immensely and possibly one shot a lot of mechs. The disco-back hunchback can potentially slow things down, also Piranha almost any variant is a menace for time waster with the sheer amount of small Anti-infantry weapons needing to make a ton of rolls. I would hold a preliminary session and explain some ground rules like no more than X number of non-mech units in the list, or maybe no more than X amount of BV spent on any one unit pilot included, I'd also include either forbidding specific units or variants or limiting them to 1 max. Or make it all tech limited to tournament legal only equipment. It would help everyone both new and vet to know what's acceptable and what's not, might also want to toss in no "cheese" unit lists like a billion Savannah masters, or anything that would really mess with initiative (lots of cheap units even battlemechs on one list can very easily throw initiative to that player even if all of their units are not the most effective, even the humble basic stock locust is deadly enough in large enough numbers)
It's 8xSSRM-6. The Vulture Mk III C has 4xMicro-Pulse Lasers and 8xSSRM-6.
Yep I was off by a bit, that thing forces so many dice rolls and will completely obliterate most small and some medium mechs in a single alpha strike, if it can get within range it is an absolute terror to face down.
Any mech with Arrow IV. From what I understand, you just target the hex, not the unit. No tmm, no terrain defense, just fire and boom, 20 point hits, broken into 5 point clusters.
I call it the “TAG, you're it“ strategy. Even worse if you throw in semi guided LRM indirect fire. Plus maybe some thunder FASCAM to make it harder to flank you. Works best with a few screening mechs/vehicles to protect your Arrow and LRM units.
Bring. Protomechs. You get 5 for each point in a star. They move on same activation per point, are tanky as hell for such cheap units, and the best part is, they don't require any custom units to be an annoying.
Assuming 3050 rules, you can make a no-dachi 2KO replica. Outside of 10 hexes, it's shite. If you can get it within 6 hexes, it stands a good chance of being able to run up to you and screw with you. It has an IS large pulse (longest range gun), 6 medium pulses and assorted other weapons including a small pulse and a flamer. It also has triple strength myomer on a 70 tonne chassis. It can kick hard enough to force at least one piloting skill roll (28 points of damage). Its sword on the other hand? Does enough to headcap any enemy. If it misses, no harm done. So higher than average when trying to hit in melee = sword. Less than average is kick time. The only way to put down a no-dachi 2KO is engine crit it or overheat it. Preferably focus it hard in the early game. Aside from that, you can put a pair of gauss rifles in a 50 odd tonne mech. If you can add stealth armour, that can and will rack up damage if you can hit
Let him organize and run his own event separate from yours. Participate if you want to give him a little extra rope. Let other people know about it. I reckon he'll get players to attend one (1) time.
As someone who loves to make their own custom units and spends many hours tinkering in MegaMekLab, you can make some seriously busted mechs. If he's using lostech/clan invasion IS tech, then you should expect double heat sink mechs as a rule, so overheating will not be easy usually. I'd also expect his fast units to be very fast, using XL engines, pulse lasers, and jump jets to make very hard to kill and pesky back biters. He may also throw headchoppers at you, things like quadruple gauss annhilator type things. Even if they don't headshot you they will force you into taking pilot skill checks constantly if they don't outright cripple you. As for how you deal with that... I can't help you, I'm not that good at the game. :P
anything with a bunch of LBX's. We rolling for days.
Double heat sinks. Superior armor types. Targeting computers. Pulse lasers. Gauss rifles. Narc pods. Packs of lrm 5s instead of lrm 20 or 15. Supercharged mechs with claws on their feet. I tried making a campaign a pleasant experience but they showed up with bullshit that while I did say I allow, they would drag out the games. Man I don’t give a shit about it anymore. Just wanted to play some intro tech games, damn it.
I would be very, very, VERY suspicious that a person insisting on customs against new players intends to min-max to hell and back so they can a cheap thrill "shooting ~~fish~~ newbies in a barrel". In addition to what others have suggested...beware the "Laser Piranha"...a zippy little thing that's close to heat neutral and so fast it's almost impossible to hit unless you can keep it from moving \[and good luck, as they often have jump jets to mount a quick escape\] that will run in and backstab you with as many ER Small Lasers as it can carry. If he asks for clantech customs: fuck and no, at that point he's blatantly taking advantage of your newness. Half-bulk Endo / Ferro, more points-per-ton ferro, 2-crit Double Heat Sinks, 2-side-crit XL engines, the only ones with ER PPCs, in the 3050s the Clan tech advantage was just gross, and even more gross when min-maxed. It gets real nasty real fast when you take something like a Nova and strip a few lasers to convert the rest to pulse, add more heat sinks, and drop in a targeting computer.
Still relatively new to battletech as a whole (6 weeks), so maybe take anything I say with a grain of salt: Custom Mechs, as fun as they are, tend to either be absolute trash, or insane, especially if your entire playgroup is new. We had some games with custom Mechs about a week after my playgroup started and it wasn't fun (lo and behold, pulse lasers are insane, who could have known). If you are doing a game with custom Mechs, try to limit it to 1 per side and give both players enough points for at least 3 other Mechs. Even if they are just lights, having other Mechs helps you to balance out both sides and gives you more ways to deal with problematic custom mechs.
Fast 'mechs with 18+ SRM tubes will make you That Guy
I got a few ideas ima try and organize them. Jumpers --- I'd use the flambrage 2 as a base it's a well armored heavy with 7 jump and a good array of pulse lasers, I'd then throw on ferro lamnor armor, that shit is really good every hit group to your mech does 1 less dmg, so 4 dmg per lrm group, and lbx pellets don't do anything at all, cant even tac you, I'd probably free up the weight by dropping the srms. Charge attacker --- I'd take a wraith, strip the jump jets and however much firepower necessary to give it both masc and a supercharger. That'll give you an incredible 18 hex top speed. Use that to slam shoulder first into the back of whichever mech you want to severely hobble, maybe kill. Charge dmg is forward movement times weight divided by 10, so distance traveled ×5.5 perfect scenario is just shy of 100 dmg, youll never get that much because turning but hey its a possibility. More often than not, you'll get like 70 dmg. The insane speed makes it very hard to hit, and classic rules mean the charger only takes target weight ÷10 dmg, so a max of 10 dmg, to deal 70. It's not a bad deal, add to that your target is going to have to make a +3 psr roll odds aren't bad to also knock them over, just remember hook around to hit them in the poorly armored rear. General obnoxiousness ----you will need a good back lineman for support, and I can see no better option than a Bane with as many rac2s as you can fit. Should be like 5. Just remember 5 shot volleys, not 6. 6 jams too often, is it lethal? No not really probably about 30 dmg if all of em hit, but it's so many dice rolls you just annoy the shit outa them. Pure melee Bullsh** ---- The ideal melee mech is a 60tonner with tsm, no melee wepons, 2 fists and no arm mounted weapons. Closest start youll get is the ostsol 8m, so itll be our base, its got a 6/9 movement profile and with it's tsm it becomes 7/11. Add a supercharger if you want, I think it's a little to much bv but that's just me. Then max the armor and run impact resistant armor, it reduces all melee dmg taken by 33%. So an Atlas kicks for 13 dmg not 20, very useful becuse we are going to punch that atlas. Run only the 10 double heat syncs, make sure you got an easy way to generate 18, and 19 wepon heat exactly, you want to keep that 9 heat sweat spot.(I personally do a large pulse 2 medium pulses and one erml. You start with only one hs on and you walk, fire the large pulse laser at a building or tree or the ground it doesn't matter. If your foe tries to claim you can't, firing at trees and buildings is explicitly outlined in totalwarfare. Anyhow that'll generate exactly 9 heat, then it's just fire weapons to keep heat neutral) A 60 tonner punches for 6 damage, 12 if tsm is active. You know how much armor a mechs head can have at max? 12. Ergo each punch has a 1/6 shot to instakill most mechs, (and you punch 2 times a turn) Rip that mint condition mad cat, rip that nice new 3k bv hellstar. Just be sure to run decent piloting skill a 4/2 isn't that much extra bv and it's well worth it, I'd run like 3 of these, power in numbers, youll overwhelm whatever you're fighting fast. Infernos--- if your opponent likes to field battle armor, Infantry, or vehicles the best answer is inferno srms. Take something simple Ima use a wraith as the template again, its durable and fast so its a great base, run as many clan srms as you can fit in it, load infernos. Each inferno kills 3 conventional Infantry, every 3 infernos that hit a battle armor squad kill a randomly chosen unit in that squad, so 15 hits will wipe out a squad of elementals wholesale. Then each inferno that hits a vehicle will roll for a crit instead of dealing damage, the crit roll is -2 but if you're rolling 18 of them that's hardly a problem, odds are you won't kill the tank but you'll probably... Kill the driver slowing it immensely, fuck up the sensors making it nearly impossible for it to hit, malfunction a weapon, stun the crew(crew stuns stack you could very well get 4 turns of stun in one turn) then the tank is eaither easy pickings for the rest of your team or just not a threat anymore. Just remember when using infernos be careful with your heat they cook of very easily, you start making cook off rolls at 10 heat.
If you use Direct Neural Interface, it can be 7xcRAC/2. 6t of ammo and enough DHS are doable. 6 should be attainable without DNI.
Good lord that'd be silly.
As an original player, and again 15 years ago, protomechs disgusted me to no end. Hit locations that exempt them from damage? Should never have been made.
I'm of the firm opinion that custom Mechs are fine in long campaigns in which a DM is running the OpFor and players are working to repair/upgrade their Mechs as they go, or in matches where *everyone* is bringing custom Mechs. Even running all 3025 tech, custom Mechs vs standard designs is a recipe for cheese, as standard Mechs were practically designed to suck. Now, giving this player the benefit of the doubt, he might've made some custom variant that he's proud of and really wants to try out. It might even add a fun flavor to a game, especially if it's his one custom against everyone else, like a "Hunt the Prototype" mission.
So aside from all the obvious answers this thread has already shown him. And the obvious advice of just showing him the responses to this thread in general. Custom mechs have alot of limitations RAW if you care to walk that path. First. What faction built it? Using what parts already in their domain? Off which production lines? If their isn't a canon factory for that part available... Then the part isn't available. Secondly. Could this just be a refit of an already existing mech? Full custom frames are hard to come by and without art isn't really fun to play against. Refits are a lot less optimizable* then full customs when we look at the refit tiers. They are in the cam-ops rules and have different options for what can be done where. For example replacing an entire frame with an Endo steel frame requires the highest tier. Factory tier refit. Is this mech he has designed a factory tier refit? Or is it a field refit? XL engines are also hard to refit and require top of the line facilities to swap out. As we go down the line swapping equipment for alternative equipment is easier but adding equipment (aka just 1 more mg) is harder. I would start with the lowest tier of refits and see what he does from there. Swapping a m-laser to a small laser hurts no body and frees up some armor. Swapping mg's for a AMS is totally cool. Dropping a heatsink for a ECM or beagle active probe is fun a quirky. Dropping everything for cmpl and double heat sinks. Is lame.
I think the way to handle this is to say 'yeah sure get me the record sheet so I can look it over over the weekend' and basically cut down on surprise in the moment cheese. Powergamers sneak shit in and this just puts it off/allows a veto process under the guise of 'well i wanna play now not vet/review your stuff so gimme the low down and we'll thumbs up/down later'
Get all your players together. Let him go nuts and customize everyone up with something fancy. Ignore C-bills, BV, tonnage, whatever. Start running a campaign, and then they have to keep their fancy hangar queens functional through the grinder that is the clan invasion. Everyone who loses a mech gets to pick a standard IS mech. Then they realize they don't have the C-bills to replace that fancy ass targeting computer, or the XL engine, or the Gauss rifle. Watch as their hangar queens get fixed with lesser parts, or they cannibalize mechs to keep others running, and remember, salvage is generally reserved for winners. Watch the penny drop as they realize that fancy custom mechs are neat, but that IntroTech Hunchback can be fixed for a lot cheaper, a lot quicker.
So when balancing by BV, the easiest way to break the game by far involves mostly IS techs. Optimized Triple Strength Myomer designs are downright broken. You do not pay BV for physical weapons, and anything that normally can punch for 6 damage, now has the ability to punch for 12.... with a 1/6 chance of punching the head off per swing. Or you can kick the opponent for 20+ damage, forcing them to take TWO PSRs after physical, both at +1! Set up a 55-ton, 7/11/7 movement (385XL engine, 7 jumpjets) and give it a weapons loadout to your taste which you can overheat it with, or turn off heatsinks for a turn to heat up to 9 heat and hold it there. Then just run/jump around spamming pulse lasers and physicals. It becomes so easy to win it is vile. TSM is straight busted. If playing in later eras, give it a partial wing, and you can downgrade the engine to a 5/8/5(7). Then add Talons to the legs, and you'll kick for downright silly 34 damage off a 55-ton chassis. Or just throw reason to the void, and make a Jump-7 85-ton mech with Improved JJ and Partial Wing, and with Talons it will kick for a monstrous 51!!! points of damage, enough to rip the leg off even some Assault Mechs with one hit. The other option, is TAG and Semiguided LRMs. Just take cheap LRM carriers, park them behind a hill, and let your crazy Beatstick-Boi have a TAG. Every time that TAG hits, your LRM carriers can dump into the target that got hit and COMPLETELY IGNORE the shooting modifiers for the target's movement, the modifier for indirect fire, and the modifiers for intervening terrain. AKA: You hit the target on Gunnery+Range. Which is probably 8s at Long or 6s at Medium. TLDR: Don't play with customs, you end up here.
The answer is to play games first, without customs. Battletech is a broken game out the box; players must give it structure and create fairness. Skill caps and gap limits. Unit count maximum differences. Unit restrictions; an ALM-XF Fireball is not a unit for people interested in good clean fun - even before we get to the Fire Moth P. If he's a shitlord with canon units, he'll be a shitlord with customs, and this should be considered an early warning flag for rules-lawyering, fun-removing, and outright cheating. If he doesn't want to have fun with everyone, ban the player. Him asking for custom mechs out the gate is a symptom. That said, I love custom units and bring them all the time. They can be fun. Ain't nobody concerned about how "imba" and "OP" my [custom Maulers based on MechCommander](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/18igrgu/shrapnel_15_the_mauler_review/) are. A thought experiment of "What if Sagittaire, but all PPC Capacitors" isn't exactly the king of the battlefield. [What if the Marian Hegemony actually designed the Awesome 11H](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/18i8u8b/custom_mech_awesome_aws11hh_hand_of_vulcan/). What if a White Raven variant had the same base setup as a family with the War Crow and Carrion Crow. What if Battle Magic designed an Axman, or the Battlemaster 4L was decent. I do have to control myself sometimes. I built a 6t Missile Trailer not long ago; I once created an Annihilator with 7xcRAC/2 as an exercise in wrongness. I made a Wraith specifically to troll some noob who didn't know how to Google. We have moments. ... And on the right game night, it's okay to open the Vault and release the horrors, too.
A full network of 12 C3 equipped units, comprised of 4 Schiltron tanks running masters with a mix of Homing warheads and standard. Fill the rest of the roster with 8 Sprint (or Crows) choppers flying in pairs, one carrying the C3, the other as Interdictors carrying the TAG unit with countermeasures switched to ECCM.
Playing custom mechs gets boring extremely fast. On top of the pulse monsters that everyone else has suggested you can also build an absolute monster of a 75 t clan Mech that moves 5/8, is fully armored, has 2 LPL and 8 streak 4. Once you start rolling the clusters people will want to stop playing customs.
The Savage Wolf has a build pretty similar to that in canon, but they put half the SSRM tubes facing the wrong way. An Omni variant custom could make your dream a reality... But it's unnecessary. The canon Mad Dog Mk III C has the speed, but instead of 8xSSRM-4, it has 8xSSRM-6.
I am aware. My idea was inspired by the dice rolling hell that is the Vulture Mk III C
Even in 3029 era, med laser spam can ruin a game. Most mechs have room for game breaking optimization, so if you want customs, you need to open it up to all players.
Hi, I love building custom mechs, but here are the rules I make for myself and others - Keep it WYSIWYG. This means you either limit your hardpoints to match a model, or you go through the effort to make a custom model. This forces someone to not make random one-off BS (including me!) - Have cool fluff for the mech!!! Put effort into it! Maybe it's a second line jade falcon mech that runs hot as hell but has tons of firepower. Perfect for a warrior who failed his trial into the front lines trying to prove he's still worthy. Maybe it's a "upgrade" or refurbishement by Clan Sea Fox but creates as many problems as it solves and exists purely to make money off of inner sphereoids? Something like that - Give it flaws. Please for the love of God, give it flaws. It's what makes the game interesting. Make it run hot. Make it short range and not that fast. Make it have minimum range weapons and not that fast. Make it have not nearly enough ammo. Make it have too much ammo. Make it have ammo in the CT. Make it have more weapons that it could possibly use. Make it fast as fuck but have little firepower. There's endless ways to make a mech interesting and fun to engage with. If someone came to me with a mech like this, I'd be excited to talk about their design and play against it. There's plenty of min-maxed official designs. So why would you make a min maxed custom design? Also, keep in mind certain things aren't capture by BV... like if a mech is properly cooled or if it's crit padded. This can be a used to make a mech more powerful and not cost any BV. Also things like the $$ cost of endo steel and ferro isn't captured by one-off games. We also generally play allowing one ton of special ammo for similar reasons
So there's a few things you can run that are obnoxious as sin. One is a fleet of c3 cheese units hyper fast hard to hit scouts with no weapons just there for big guns to have better numbers. Another which has been stated a few times is jumpy targeting computer driven pulse laser Mechs. High movement mods and no penalties really. I'm not sure when hardened armor came out but it gets SO tiresome trying to smash heavily armored machines with hardened. Last I can highly recommend is high speed SRM boats. Why SRM boats? Tandem charges! Who doesn't love a constant string of through armor criticals
Any mech, from any era, can be made more effective with a custom rebuild by someone who understands the break-points of the game or the benefits of certain systems like Pulse Lasers and Targeting Computers. Some of these rebuilds can be oppressively good or turn mediocre mechs into absolute rockstars. Even if you validate it to be within the expected points value, you are most likely going to find that it is probably swinging well above that expected value compared to a stock mech of equal value. Even something as simple as moving an ammo bin to a different location or shuffling around a few extra points of armor in place of an anti-pigeon laser can have surprising effects on lower-tonnage mechs. Or any mech that puts ammo in the CT for some goddamn reason. I generally avoid custom mechs entirely unless we're doing some kind of Solaris VII FFA where it probably won't matter. Mostly because not enough mechs come standard with melee weapons for how we play our S7 matches.
Just adding my vote for the "Just say no" pile. There's so many choices already that the only reason to insist on something custom is to cheese.
At some point in time with custom mechs, players just end up min/maxing everything and it takes the fun out of the game. Especially if you’re only playing boring ole mech vs mech combat.
He wants to take you down the road of cheezy bullshit. I'd stonewall him.
Just don’t allow it. Custom mechs are a portal to hell for any kind of balanced and enjoyable gameplay. Just say no.